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(WPTV)   Will the prosecution cry "Uncle" after GZ's uncle's testimony? Will the judge rule that the defense can't present a defense because it might cause the jury to decide "not guilty"? Will these Zimmerman trial threads ever end? Not today   (wptv.com) divider line 1158
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman, prosecutors, uncles, jury  
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5211 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 9:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 04:15:08 PM  
This fat soft talk is not going to bode well for Zimmerman's status in prison, on the off chance he gets time for some lesser charge.
 
2013-07-08 04:15:32 PM  

Elegy: Man, BDLR is really turning on the skeezy emotional schmaltz in cross.

I do feel bad for Tracy Martin, hard to lose a kid.


I feel sorry for Martin's parents as well.  If I were them though, I would probably outraged at this point for what the prosecutors and their ilk have put them through.  Even they have to see that there is no case here.
 
2013-07-08 04:15:57 PM  

creepy ass-cracka: So, Z's friends and family were disturbed by the screams for help, but M's father re-played the tape 20 times?

Why would a father want to hear what he thought was his son screaming for help over and over again?


you're asking why someone would not act in a rational way after they had a child killed tragically?
 
2013-07-08 04:16:29 PM  

Abuse Liability: lousyskater: Abuse Liability: Where does the exertion come in?

Know how I know you've never been in a fight?

I've likely been in plenty more fights than you.  The ones that last fifty two seconds don't leave me out of breath for minutes after, even when I'm the aggressor.  I've actually been in about 7 fights (all before leaving high school), but thanks for playing.



Abuse Liability: lousyskater: Abuse Liability: Where does the exertion come in?

Know how I know you've never been in a fight?

Want to know how I know you're out of shape?


Yeah, I'm pretty out of shape. All you've done with that statement is confirmed the whole idea that GZM should have been exhausted after the fight though as he wasn't in the best shape either. Good job.
 
2013-07-08 04:16:39 PM  

Giltric: redmid17: Giltric: Magorn: redmid17: Elegy: Yes! Back at my desk and can watch the trial.

Thanks for the updates everyone that provided them.

MMA instructor is putting a nail in the coffin of Zimmerman being a fighter. "Scale of 1 to 10 how good was Mr Zimmerman when he came to you?" "Like 0.5"

"He's so bad I can't actually rate him on that scale."

But keep in mind that this is testimony from someone who thinks MMA bears any resemblance to actual fighting.   They might as well have called the Rex-Kwan-Do guy.    Bad slip by the prosecution letting this guy testify, I would have Voir Dire'd his status as an expert witness into oblivion.  Utterly laughable that anyone who teaches that crap that they call MMA would be considered an expert on street fighting of any kind.  Technique and training count for less than nothing in a real street fight, it's all about the desire to hurt the other person and a williness to put aside anything resembling a concept of fighting fair or "honor" to do it.  and I was taught that a long time ago  BY a martial arts instructor who held multiple black belts in Aikido, Tang-so-do, Hapkido, etc, but before that had grown up as the enforcer in street gang in one fo the rougher parts of SE DC

Street fighting is more about cardio than anything else.

Most street fights end up with two guys wrestling, grappling, holding onto one another and gasping for air....very little punches are thrown.

/streetfighter
//I hear people try to tap nowadays though

Ken?

Gil.

Or G.T. if we're friends.

Gil Tyler Richardson if you're my mom and I'm in trouble.


Come one man! It's a classic

cdn.wikimg.net
 
2013-07-08 04:17:14 PM  

Mr_Fabulous: I am going to say the same thing today as I did months ago, when I first learned of this story.

If an adult black man carrying a pistol pursued some unarmed white (or other non-black) 17-year-old kid in a nice Florida neighborhood... and shot him dead... not one person here would be arguing his innocence. Not one.


I think alot of that would depend on whether or not the black man had the shiat beat out of him in the process.

Please don't displace your racism onto everyone else.
 
2013-07-08 04:17:55 PM  

Abuse Liability: lousyskater: Abuse Liability: Where does the exertion come in?

Know how I know you've never been in a fight?

Want to know how I know you're out of shape?


Nah, other person had it right.  You've never been in a fight.  Doesn't matter how in shape you are, it's exhausting, especially when you hit the ground.  Unless you're doing some biatchy slap fight.
 
2013-07-08 04:18:34 PM  

AngryDragon: Elegy: Man, BDLR is really turning on the skeezy emotional schmaltz in cross.

I do feel bad for Tracy Martin, hard to lose a kid.

I feel sorry for Martin's parents as well.  If I were them though, I would probably outraged at this point for what the prosecutors and their ilk have put them through.  Even they have to see that there is no case here.


Yep...for giving the family hope.

I wonder if Angela Corey is a popular person with her subordinates previous to the Zimmerman case. Are the prosecutors that inept or are they doing bad as a fark you to her?
 
2013-07-08 04:19:41 PM  

TheWhoppah: I'm sorry but a pussy wimp girly-man is not going to be getting out of his car to observe a suspicious person in the dark unless he is packing heat and are willing to use it.
If you can't see this then you are so far up GZ's ass that you only see confirmation bias.


Everything you've described here is 100% legal.

It's legal to carry a gun.

It's legal to be suspicious of people (even black people).

It's legal to observe and report people to the police.

It's legal to follow people to better observe and report them.

It's legal to be willing to use lethal force.

It's even legal to use lethal force against people who are beating on you.

I don't know how your mind got to be so legally and morally twisted.
 
2013-07-08 04:20:59 PM  
I can't wait for the post trial interviews, when the lawyers from both sides can speak thier mind.
 
2013-07-08 04:21:58 PM  

lousyskater: Abuse Liability: lousyskater: Abuse Liability: Where does the exertion come in?

Know how I know you've never been in a fight?

I've likely been in plenty more fights than you.  The ones that last fifty two seconds don't leave me out of breath for minutes after, even when I'm the aggressor.  I've actually been in about 7 fights (all before leaving high school), but thanks for playing.


Abuse Liability: lousyskater: Abuse Liability: Where does the exertion come in?

Know how I know you've never been in a fight?

Want to know how I know you're out of shape?

Yeah, I'm pretty out of shape. All you've done with that statement is confirmed the whole idea that GZM should have been exhausted after the fight though as he wasn't in the best shape either. Good job.


He was actually in the best shape of his adult life. After all, its been shown now that his'mma' training was pretty much aerobics as he couldn't fight to save his life. Literally
 
2013-07-08 04:22:54 PM  
Crap!  Now I'm in an airport and no feeds are working.   Everyone here must be downloading porn.
 
2013-07-08 04:25:29 PM  

spiderpaz: This fat soft talk is not going to bode well for Zimmerman's status in prison, on the off chance he gets time for some lesser charge.


It's going a long way to keeping him out.
 
2013-07-08 04:25:58 PM  

FitzShivering: Abuse Liability: lousyskater: Abuse Liability: Where does the exertion come in?

Know how I know you've never been in a fight?

Want to know how I know you're out of shape?

Nah, other person had it right.  You've never been in a fight.  Doesn't matter how in shape you are, it's exhausting, especially when you hit the ground.  Unless you're doing some biatchy slap fight.


That's such b.s. the amount of time the fight lasts makes a huge difference. I've been knocked out from behind and had people kick at me for 20 seconds before my friends could break it up. I wasn't out of breath. I'm not some ITG either, I lost all but two of my fights.
 
2013-07-08 04:27:18 PM  

Elegy: This should be interesting. This is the fired chief of Sanford PD.


Still not getting a feed.  He saying anything interesting?
 
2013-07-08 04:29:22 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Crap!  Now I'm in an airport and no feeds are working.   Everyone here must be downloading porn.


Checking up on the latest plane crashes.
Updating their wills.
 
2013-07-08 04:29:25 PM  

washington-babylon: nekom: This text is now purple:
You're going to have to help out with that slavery-as-origin-of-racism angle. The Irish suffered under German racism, but I don't see much slavery having gone on to cause it.

Oh sure racism has existed pretty much since human civilization has.  I just think that slavery was a key factor in it in the case of the USA.  There was a time when it was common for a LOT of people to actually believe that they were less than human, inferior and not fit to live amongst us, even some who argued that slavery was to their benefit.  That's why even after slavery officially ended, blacks were viewed as inferior and treated as such for many many generations.  It takes a LONG time to heal those kind of wounds.

I find it humorous that so many people think that Slavery=Black People in fields. There was a large amount of whites enslaved in the U.S. and other places around the world at the same time. A large portion of these were Irish (in fact, a certain book called "Kidnapped" by R.L. Stevenson was written with this as a main plot point). A great many of these people were stolen children, either orphans or children of families who were of the wrong religious or political faction.  Now, I will agree that the majority that were enslaved were Black (or Native American) especially toward the 1860's, I just wish to point out that there were victims from MANY races. This fact is not taught in grade schools today, and has been all but forgotten by most people in the U.S. The last places that it is seriously discussed are obscure history journals and the occasional rare college history lecture.


s3.amazonaws.com

Only Blacks were slaves!!!!!
 
2013-07-08 04:30:07 PM  

spiderpaz: This fat soft talk is not going to bode well for Zimmerman's status in prison, on the off chance he gets time for some lesser charge.


uhh, I think people in prison would figure that out without George needing a recommendation letter from his MMA instructor
 
2013-07-08 04:30:21 PM  
washington-babylon:
I agree with you as far as this is concerned. Oddly enough though, the Irish were and are still treated as an underclass themselves, albeit not so broadly in America as elsewhere.

No question they once were second class citizens, we've all seen the "No Irish need apply" signs.  I have Irish ancestry so I'm aware of the history, but I'm not bitter about it because it doesn't exist in the scope of my life at present.  If I were STILL making less money than I should because of my Irish heritage, I imagine I'd feel a lot different about it.  I'd imagine today the biggest issue would be amongst the other British Isles peoples.  Since I have basically all of them in my family tree, I guess I should be fighting with myself.
 
2013-07-08 04:31:28 PM  
Fights I've been in thread.
 
2013-07-08 04:31:47 PM  
No, what's really on trial here is the ability for non-minorities to use the "Angry Black Man Syndrome" as an explanation for why they took some action against a black man. Even at 17 years old, they're so scary and blood thirsty that following one of them on a dark and rainy night with a gun, first in a vehicle and then on foot (a totally innocent action), will get you killed. So, starting an altercation with a black man which results in his death is totally justifiable because common knowledge suggests that even an unarmed black kid who was going about his business will kill you, if given a chance. Hey blacks, don't forget to keep your hood off in the rain, unless you want to be mistaken for an intruder. Smh.

Drox? I dont agree with all your posts, but this should be tatto'd on some foreheads in here - including the poster who insisted GZ wasn't even aware of Martin's skin color until dispatch ASKED
 
2013-07-08 04:31:51 PM  
If Zimmerman was unfit, you must acquit.
 
2013-07-08 04:32:32 PM  

Headso: creepy ass-cracka: So, Z's friends and family were disturbed by the screams for help, but M's father re-played the tape 20 times?

Why would a father want to hear what he thought was his son screaming for help over and over again?

you're asking why someone would not act in a rational way after they had a child killed tragically?


I didn't say anything about what would be rational. I just think that Z's friends and family responded more appropriately to hearing their son's/friend's crying out for help. I don't think that a father (if he really thought it was his son's voice) would replay it over and over.
 
2013-07-08 04:32:58 PM  
In FL, is the defense required to reveal prior to trial everything that it intends to present to the prosecution?
 
2013-07-08 04:33:25 PM  

FC Exile: Fights I've been in thread.


My record makes Abuse Liability look like Rocky Marciano.
 
2013-07-08 04:33:38 PM  
why does that lady have a unicycle neclace
 
2013-07-08 04:33:57 PM  

AngryDragon: Elegy: This should be interesting. This is the fired chief of Sanford PD.

Still not getting a feed.  He saying anything interesting?


Just covering the circumstances under which Sybrina Martin and the rest of the Martin family heard the 911 tape with the screaming.

O'Mara covered the fact that under normal police proceedure you seperate the family members and make them listen to the tape separately, so that they do not influence each other.

He covered the fact that this wasn't done - the entire Martin family was present in Mayor's office together when they listened to the tape and identified it as the decedent.

O'Mara also covered the fact that the Mayor normally doesn't involve himself in police cases.

BDLRs cross was muddled and rather pointless.
 
2013-07-08 04:34:44 PM  
Judge, we ask you please to strike EVERYTHING the defense has said off the record, please.
 
2013-07-08 04:34:51 PM  
My personal technique involves closing fast and then repeatedly lifting and slamming the opponent into the ground as violently as possible. But that's just me.
 
2013-07-08 04:36:19 PM  

FC Exile: My personal technique involves closing fast and then repeatedly lifting and slamming the opponent into the ground as violently as possible. But that's just me.


Bruce Banner, is that you?
 
2013-07-08 04:36:51 PM  
Richardson hearing over defense violations of discovery.

Not sure which witness they are arguing about and trying impeach, though, anyone know? Perhaps one of the ones I missed this morning?
 
2013-07-08 04:37:01 PM  

YouAreItNoTagBacks: Viewing reality through the lens of revenge movies? You're either a farking idiot, a troll or both. Given the nonsensical second paragraph, I'm leaning towards the latter but if it's the former, go back to jerking off to Death Wish and leave the grown ups alone.


Actually, I was more referencing a news article once linked in a thread long before Trayvon Martin became an issue. It was about a group of residents of a "slum" neighborhood, who banded together and cleaned the neighborhood up, both physically and metaphorically. And yes, confronting the local hoods was involved, and yes, they persevered. Give me a few and I'll see if I can't find the article, if it still exists.
 
2013-07-08 04:37:30 PM  

Tatsuma: Judge, we ask you please to strike EVERYTHING the defense has said off the record, please.


What is funny, is if they DID, Z would still walk.
 
2013-07-08 04:37:33 PM  
The four culpable mental states are:
1) Intentional
2) Knowing
3) Reckless
4) Criminal Negligence

Murder is intentionally or knowingly killing someone.  Manslaughter is recklessly killing someone and the last one is Criminally Negligent Homicide or some variation of that depending on the jurisdiction... in some states this may be the lowest level felony or not even a crime.

A person is reckless with regard to circumstances or his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all circumstances as viewed from his standpoint.

A person is criminally negligent with regard to circumstances or his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur.  The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from his standpoint.
 
2013-07-08 04:37:35 PM  
"I don't have the deposition in me.... Uh.... I mean on me right now."
 
2013-07-08 04:40:05 PM  
...but, I'll leave you with this neat little article to chew on, while you're sniveling that your little "thug hero".

http://www.sacsheriff.com/crime_prevention/documents/neighborhood_wa tc h_06.cfm

Question: are only black people allowed to take part in such programs?
 
2013-07-08 04:42:44 PM  

parasol: No, what's really on trial here is the ability for non-minorities to use the "Angry Black Man Syndrome"


which non-minority are you referring to?
Zimmerman is a minority
 
2013-07-08 04:43:13 PM  

Raiden333: nekom: Raiden333: I have to admit, before the trial I was 100% on Team Treyvon, but every day of this sways me more and more to Not Guilty. Doesn't help that the prosecution is godawful at this.

Can't blame you, the inaccurate reporting early on got me too.  To be fair, any time a 17 year old kid gets killed it's upsetting and never good.  The way it was initially reported, you'd think he went to Martin's house, kicked down the door and shot him 9 times in the back as he tried to flee for his life.  I was outraged.

But now, it looks like two knuckleheads got mixed up in the worst possible way.  One knucklehead playing  cop, and another knucklehead trying to prove how tough he is.  Their lives intersected in just the wrong way.  It's tragic, but it isn't murder.

Couldn't have said it better myself.


except that Zim really wasn't playing cop. He was there to look out for strangers who could possibly be thieves. He called it in and kept tabs on the guy. Travon initiated a physical confrontation which ended up costing his life. Its sad but if he had been raised not to be a thug and try to be all ganstah maybe his poor family would still have him.

And as I stated before the thread nazis edited the post this is something GZ will have to live with and being someone who has been forced, in combat but still, to take a life its something no one earns and its something that if you are the slightest bit human you never ever forget.
 
2013-07-08 04:45:27 PM  
I still want to know what happened to TM's GPS info.  They have detailed records from his phone for every day except the day of the shooting?  The prosecution had possession of the phone, sent it to a California crime lab, refused to share that data last I knew, then had it sent to another retrieval service for the defense and suddenly the one last day of data is missing?  Computers don't work like that!  Someone in the prosecution needs to go to jail for destruction of evidence.
 
2013-07-08 04:45:34 PM  
Richardson ruling in favor of the defense.

The balance of rulings is starting to even out now tht the defense has taken over.
 
2013-07-08 04:45:47 PM  
a book by Richard Neely, chief justice of the West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals:

http://www.amazon.com/Take-Back-Neighborhood-Richard-Neely/dp/155611 18 27
 
2013-07-08 04:48:30 PM  
 
2013-07-08 04:49:20 PM  

The Singing Bush: OK, so if I'm reading this right, I can attack someone for reaching for his gun as a preventative to felony action, but not with lethal force even if I feared for my life. I am unable to disarm him, so I have not neutralized the threat. But I can't try to knock him unconscious so that I can disarm him? I have to just kinda go along with the fight and toe the line to where he doesn't fear for his life and in hopes he doesn't pull his gun and shoot? Seriously, those are my options?


Let me break your hypothetical situation down and say what I would do and recommend to someone else in the same hypothetical situation. Note that this is not legal advice but just good common sense.

1) If the guy is simply "Following you". Get your ass at a minimum to a well lighted (or even better yet a populated area if possible) and try and lose him. Don't give him a reason to see you as a physical threat in the first place. Possibly call the police depending upon how threatened you felt at the moment.

2) If for some reason he brandished his weapon by showing it in a holster (but not reaching for it) he has broken the law but it doesn't rise to the level of punching him (see #4 below for more on this). Do the same as above and possibly scream like a little girl for help as you run. Not because it makes you less than a man but because that's going to get most people within earshot to pay attention and possibly call the police on your behalf. The other guy is going to know this and run the other way in almost every case as he probably doesn't want to go to jail.

3) He actually reaches or starts to draw his weapon. Run and definitely scream for help like a little girl. Most people are really lousy shots and at 15-25 yards or greater the odds of you being hit are very slim indeed even for people who are suppose to know what they are doing (a little side to side movement wouldn't be a real bad idea here but just by a few feet either way. See the numerous police shoot outs where dozens of shots are fired and nobody gets hit. Definitely call the police and tell them that a guy was pointing a gun at you. They will be there as fast as they possibly can be. Continue to try and evade the guy if you think that he might have, or currently be, chasing or looking for you.

4) If you are cornered with a person at gunpoint and have absolutely no other choice and you know that screaming for help may fall upon deaf years or help won't reach you soon enough then you may be considered to be in fear for your life you may assault him just enough and no more to get away (and probably take his gun with you as proof that it was out) Just hope that you don't get dead in the process of the fight. Do not play cop and "Hold him at gunpoint" unless you have no other choice. For example if you were cornered because the guy was blocking the only exit then you should run as soon as he is no longer blocking the exit. If you are cornered because lets say you were in a stairwell with all of the doors locked from the other side then maybe you should withdraw at least 10 feet and call the police (provided that you can) if you cannot call the police then go in the direction that you feel safest (up or down) until you find a way out (usually the ground floor doors are unlocked from the inside so if you're unfamiliar with the building that's which way I would head). Call the police or have someone do it for you.

5) If you are in a fistfight for your life and you think that you are in serious fear of death or serious bodily harm in any of the above situations regardless of whether or not you started it and his gun comes into play and you manage to get hold of it then shoot the guy and hope that there's some outside proof that he started it and that you were in fear for your life at the moment that you shot him and that you tried to be as non-confrontational as possible until that was no longer an option. You might get off after an investigation (it was his gun after all so it was probably drawn by him, just hope that he was the registered owner), you might end up in a trial and you might go to prison but at the end of the day it's better IMO to be alive and healthy in prison than being dead in the ground or drinking your meals through a straw for the rest of your life. Life isn't always fair but there it is, which is why I always suggest evasion first if at all possible.

These were all valid options for Martin and only the first one was in play until Martin forced it to be the last one (and skipped over #2 though #4  by not evading and continuing to do so first) by straddling Zimmerman and placing him in reasonable fear for his life or serious injury. Note that he had the option to run and call for help in all of them long before the altercation started and had actually started to run before he changed his mind and decided to confront Zimmerman. Not even the SYG defense allows for you to leave and then come back to start "Defending" yourself so by leaving you have forfeited SYG as a later defense. The other person has to come to you not the other way around.
 
2013-07-08 04:49:25 PM  
Aguing now about removing the motion of limiting and allowing the toxicology reports on Martin to be heard by the jury.
 
2013-07-08 04:50:33 PM  

Elegy: Richardson hearing over defense violations of discovery.

Not sure which witness they are arguing about and trying impeach, though, anyone know? Perhaps one of the ones I missed this morning?


Donnelly, the Vietnam veteran medic and physician assistant who didn't listen to the 911 call initially because as he said he thought it would trigger PTSD, but then listened to and told the defense on Saturday that he had and identified Zimmerman as the one screaming.
 
2013-07-08 04:51:18 PM  

Elegy: Aguing now about removing the motion of limiting and allowing the toxicology reports on Martin to be heard by the jury.


I don't really see how that's relevant, but then I didn't think Zimmerman's college courses were either.  Martin smoked pot.  Big deal.  So did I at his age.  Non-story on that one.
 
2013-07-08 04:51:20 PM  
George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.
 
2013-07-08 04:51:39 PM  

Elegy: Aguing now about removing the motion of limiting and allowing the toxicology reports on Martin to be heard by the jury.


The judge is getting another chance to doom this case on appeal (if it gets that far)?
 
2013-07-08 04:55:05 PM  

s2s2s2: TaskMan: What part was Morally Reprehensible about his actions?

FACT: It was George Zimmerman who put Baby in the corner.


FACT: You aren't sure what the facts are in this case.
 
2013-07-08 04:55:07 PM  

creepy ass-cracka: George said that Martin looked like he was on drugs.

Tox shows THC.

Why is this even up for debate? If the tox showed that Martin was clean, you know the prosecution would be waiving it around all over the place.


The levels of THC found in his blood were about 1.5 ng/ml.  This means its had probably been anywhere from 3-12 hours since he had smoked last  (depending on the size of the joint and THC content) and was not intoxicated at the time of the incident.  The drug thing needs to be dropped like the racism shtick.  It's not relevant.  Kids do drugs, but drugs aren't solely responsible for all their stupid decisions.
 
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