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(WPTV)   Will the prosecution cry "Uncle" after GZ's uncle's testimony? Will the judge rule that the defense can't present a defense because it might cause the jury to decide "not guilty"? Will these Zimmerman trial threads ever end? Not today   (wptv.com) divider line 1158
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman, prosecutors, uncles, jury  
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5211 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 9:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 03:23:39 PM  
msnbc guy Toure says this should open the door to how zimmerman is a woman beater and cop assaulter, not biased at all
 
2013-07-08 03:25:29 PM  

Elegy: Fighting is a discipline that requires years of dedication.

No shame in being a beginner.


This. Initiating violence is a tacit admission that you lack either the mental acuity to think your way out of a situation or the basic civility to even try to think your way out of a situation. Somebody totally unskilled at fighting just hasn't had to resort to, whether by skill, or by luck.
 
2013-07-08 03:25:38 PM  

WillofJ2: msnbc guy Toure says this should open the door to how zimmerman is a woman beater and cop assaulter, not biased at all


In for a penny, in for a pound I guess
 
2013-07-08 03:26:19 PM  
Also for anyone watching CNN, the black female legal analyst is a total smokeshow.
 
2013-07-08 03:27:33 PM  

redmid17: Also for anyone watching CNN, the black female legal analyst is a total smokeshow.


HLN is that times a million
 
2013-07-08 03:27:33 PM  

ChaosStar: The Singing Bush: ChaosStar: The Singing Bush: OK, so if I'm reading this right, I can attack someone for reaching for his gun as a preventative to felony action, but not with lethal force even if I feared for my life. You may use lethal force, say a gun.

I am unable to disarm him, so I have not neutralized the threat. But I can't try to knock him unconscious so that I can disarm him? If they are not disarmed, meaning they have the weapon in hand, you can use whatever is at your disposal to neutralize the threat including lethal force.

I have to just kinda go along with the fight and toe the line to where he doesn't fear for his life and in hopes he doesn't pull his gun and shoot? Seriously, those are my options? Your scenario keeps changing. At one point they are reaching for the weapon, in the next you haven't disarmed them, and then finally they have not utilized the weapon as it's still in the holster. Either they're trying to pull their weapon or they're not, which is it?

My story never changed.  From the beginning person threatened me and reached for his gun.  I never said nor implied that he got it out of the holster.  I attacked them because they threatened me and reached for their gun, and was unable to get the gun away from them.

Well there's your problem right there, you don't try to get the gun away from them, because it's still in the holster.
You neutralize the threat, aka them.
You don't go for another person's holstered gun, with very few exceptions.


This is the crux of the problem for me.  How do you neutralize the threat without either removing the gun or causing/attempting to cause bodily injury?  Seriously, how is that possible?  It's not like I carry handcuffs around
 
2013-07-08 03:27:53 PM  

Raiden333: I have to admit, before the trial I was 100% on Team <b>Treyvon</b>, but every day of this sways me more and more to Not Guilty. Doesn't help that the prosecution is godawful at this.


The fact that you spelled his name wrong makes me totally believe that you were on his "team".
 
2013-07-08 03:28:33 PM  

redmid17: Elegy: Yes! Back at my desk and can watch the trial.

Thanks for the updates everyone that provided them.

MMA instructor is putting a nail in the coffin of Zimmerman being a fighter. "Scale of 1 to 10 how good was Mr Zimmerman when he came to you?" "Like 0.5"

"He's so bad I can't actually rate him on that scale."


But keep in mind that this is testimony from someone who thinks MMA bears any resemblance to actual fighting.   They might as well have called the Rex-Kwan-Do guy.    Bad slip by the prosecution letting this guy testify, I would have Voir Dire'd his status as an expert witness into oblivion.  Utterly laughable that anyone who teaches that crap that they call MMA would be considered an expert on street fighting of any kind.  Technique and training count for less than nothing in a real street fight, it's all about the desire to hurt the other person and a williness to put aside anything resembling a concept of fighting fair or "honor" to do it.  and I was taught that a long time ago  BY a martial arts instructor who held multiple black belts in Aikido, Tang-so-do, Hapkido, etc, but before that had grown up as the enforcer in street gang in one fo the rougher parts of SE DC
 
2013-07-08 03:29:49 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Raiden333: I have to admit, before the trial I was 100% on Team <b>Treyvon</b>, but every day of this sways me more and more to Not Guilty. Doesn't help that the prosecution is godawful at this.

The fact that you spelled his name wrong makes me totally believe that you were on his "team".


So did rachel jeantel
 
2013-07-08 03:30:38 PM  

brantgoose: Will the Zimmerman Dream Team unleash the real killers? There are no other suspects.



Are you on crack?
 
2013-07-08 03:31:00 PM  

The Muthaship: The Singing Bush: If someone threatens me and reaches for a gun, if I'm close enough, I'm attacking them.

That is perfectly reasonable.


This is Fark after all, so you won't blame me for asking if you're being sarcastic.
 
2013-07-08 03:31:11 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: The fact that you spelled his name wrong makes me totally believe that you were on his "team".


With as much evidence to disprove what he said, no wonder you think Zimmerman is guilty.
 
2013-07-08 03:32:03 PM  
So am I getting this right, the defense is now doing the prosecutions job?
 
2013-07-08 03:33:50 PM  

The Singing Bush: ChaosStar: The Singing Bush: ChaosStar: The Singing Bush: OK, so if I'm reading this right, I can attack someone for reaching for his gun as a preventative to felony action, but not with lethal force even if I feared for my life. You may use lethal force, say a gun.

I am unable to disarm him, so I have not neutralized the threat. But I can't try to knock him unconscious so that I can disarm him? If they are not disarmed, meaning they have the weapon in hand, you can use whatever is at your disposal to neutralize the threat including lethal force.

I have to just kinda go along with the fight and toe the line to where he doesn't fear for his life and in hopes he doesn't pull his gun and shoot? Seriously, those are my options? Your scenario keeps changing. At one point they are reaching for the weapon, in the next you haven't disarmed them, and then finally they have not utilized the weapon as it's still in the holster. Either they're trying to pull their weapon or they're not, which is it?

My story never changed.  From the beginning person threatened me and reached for his gun.  I never said nor implied that he got it out of the holster.  I attacked them because they threatened me and reached for their gun, and was unable to get the gun away from them.

Well there's your problem right there, you don't try to get the gun away from them, because it's still in the holster.
You neutralize the threat, aka them.
You don't go for another person's holstered gun, with very few exceptions.

This is the crux of the problem for me.  How do you neutralize the threat without either removing the gun or causing/attempting to cause bodily injury?  Seriously, how is that possible?  It's not like I carry handcuffs around


It's not bodily injury, it's serious bodily injury.
If you break their wrist while trying to wrestle them to the ground to prevent them from shooting you, no one is going to give you grief over it, they'll heal. If you bloody their nose, give them bruises or contusions, or other superficial injuries, you're perfectly fine.
If you continue to beat their head into the concrete despite them yelling help, or stop, or uncle, etc then you're trying to kill them in their eyes and in the eyes of the law.

Reaching for the gun, even once incapacitated, is a big no no. As soon as you reach for that gun, and an officer comes around the corner, suddenly instead of defending yourself, you were going to execute that man. Worse still you actually get the gun and the officer comes around the corner and see the situation, he mistakenly fires on you thinking you're the at fault party,

Just leave the gun alone if it's not being pointed at you.
 
2013-07-08 03:34:14 PM  

The Singing Bush: This is Fark after all, so you won't blame me for asking if you're being sarcastic.


Not at all.  In that situation, attack is about your only option.

/even though I prefer begging
 
2013-07-08 03:34:28 PM  

cretinbob: So am I getting this right, the defense is now doing the prosecutions job?


No, the prosecution chose to do the defense's job, for some reason. The defense has apparently declined to reciprocate, and is in fact providing more defense.

Really, the only way a guilty verdict comes down is if the six jurors decide they don't want a lifetime of death threats against them and their families.
 
2013-07-08 03:34:36 PM  
 
2013-07-08 03:34:44 PM  

cretinbob: So am I getting this right, the defense is now doing the prosecutions job?


Other way around.
 
2013-07-08 03:35:14 PM  
just to be clear, is this what an MMA expert may look like? I mean, he DID take a self-defense class, right?

images.wikia.com

/breakthewristwalkaway
 
2013-07-08 03:36:13 PM  
The MMA instructor just put the nail in GZ's coffin...
If GZ is so fat and bad at fighting, why would he confront a stranger on the sidewalk at night... unless he started the confrontation intending to use the weapon?
QED
 
2013-07-08 03:36:58 PM  

HAMMERTOE: cretinbob: So am I getting this right, the defense is now doing the prosecutions job?

Other way around.


The prosecution is done presenting their version of the defense's case.

Now we are hearing the actual defense's version of the defense's case.
 
2013-07-08 03:37:00 PM  

Elegy: Subtle media bias 101:

MSNBC keeps doing these "reenactments" and they keep putting the black guy on the bottom.

[i.imgur.com image 300x197]


it isn't even subtle at this point anymore.
 
2013-07-08 03:37:15 PM  
WFTV saying the MMA instructor is up on charges for battery, but hasn't stood trial.

Allegedly hit a woman who he said had conned him out of some money.
 
2013-07-08 03:37:25 PM  

Magorn: redmid17: Elegy: Yes! Back at my desk and can watch the trial.

Thanks for the updates everyone that provided them.

MMA instructor is putting a nail in the coffin of Zimmerman being a fighter. "Scale of 1 to 10 how good was Mr Zimmerman when he came to you?" "Like 0.5"

"He's so bad I can't actually rate him on that scale."

But keep in mind that this is testimony from someone who thinks MMA bears any resemblance to actual fighting.   They might as well have called the Rex-Kwan-Do guy.    Bad slip by the prosecution letting this guy testify, I would have Voir Dire'd his status as an expert witness into oblivion.  Utterly laughable that anyone who teaches that crap that they call MMA would be considered an expert on street fighting of any kind.  Technique and training count for less than nothing in a real street fight, it's all about the desire to hurt the other person and a williness to put aside anything resembling a concept of fighting fair or "honor" to do it.  and I was taught that a long time ago  BY a martial arts instructor who held multiple black belts in Aikido, Tang-so-do, Hapkido, etc, but before that had grown up as the enforcer in street gang in one fo the rougher parts of SE DC


Street fighting is definitely different than MMA, but throwing a punch is throwing a punch and testifying to his general physical abilities is also pretty important to address the size differential. I agree that the state completely farked up by including this guy or allowing his inclusion (they brought up the MMA stuff in their opening argument IIRC).
 
2013-07-08 03:39:06 PM  

Magorn: redmid17: Elegy: Yes! Back at my desk and can watch the trial.

Thanks for the updates everyone that provided them.

MMA instructor is putting a nail in the coffin of Zimmerman being a fighter. "Scale of 1 to 10 how good was Mr Zimmerman when he came to you?" "Like 0.5"

"He's so bad I can't actually rate him on that scale."

But keep in mind that this is testimony from someone who thinks MMA bears any resemblance to actual fighting.   They might as well have called the Rex-Kwan-Do guy.    Bad slip by the prosecution letting this guy testify, I would have Voir Dire'd his status as an expert witness into oblivion.  Utterly laughable that anyone who teaches that crap that they call MMA would be considered an expert on street fighting of any kind.  Technique and training count for less than nothing in a real street fight, it's all about the desire to hurt the other person and a williness to put aside anything resembling a concept of fighting fair or "honor" to do it.  and I was taught that a long time ago  BY a martial arts instructor who held multiple black belts in Aikido, Tang-so-do, Hapkido, etc, but before that had grown up as the enforcer in street gang in one fo the rougher parts of SE DC


Not only that, this guy has a stake in his testimony. Free advertising.

From the little bit I saw though, I don't think he's really helped the defense much.  If anything he's hurt it. When someone is asked to rate something on a scale, and gives a number outside the scale, seriously?

//one man's homoerotica is another man's MMA
 
2013-07-08 03:39:19 PM  

imtheonlylp: just to be clear, is this what an MMA expert may look like? I mean, he DID take a self-defense class, right?

[images.wikia.com image 850x635]

/breakthewristwalkaway


7 codes?  That's just 7 words.  WTF.

The ten commandments:  Me, graven, vain, holy, parents, kill, adultery, steal, lie and covet
 
2013-07-08 03:39:32 PM  
TheWhoppah

The MMA instructor just put the nail in GZ's coffin...
If GZ is so fat and bad at fighting, why would he confront a stranger on the sidewalk at night... unless he started the confrontation intending to use the weapon?


The only accounts of who confronted whom both agree Martin confronted Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-08 03:40:04 PM  
If he can't fight, why would he confront a stranger in the dark unless he intended to use the firearm?
 
2013-07-08 03:40:19 PM  

Elegy: WFTV saying the MMA instructor is up on charges for battery, but hasn't stood trial.

Allegedly hit a woman who he said had conned him out of some money.


Yes but did he "ground and pound" her?
/ifyouknowwhatImean
 
2013-07-08 03:40:57 PM  

Nina Haagen Dazs: GORDON: The race riots will be amusing.

I'll bet law enforcement and homeland security are looking forward to it. They can demonstrate their strength and discourage further uprisings.


I was thinking earlier that this would be a good chance to try new drone tactics.
 
2013-07-08 03:41:09 PM  

TheWhoppah: If he can't fight, why would he confront a stranger in the dark unless he intended to use the firearm?


We'll get back to you on that when he actually confronts a stranger in the dark.
 
2013-07-08 03:41:50 PM  

TheWhoppah: The MMA instructor just put the nail in GZ's coffin...
If GZ is so fat and bad at fighting, why would he confront a stranger on the sidewalk at night... unless he started the confrontation intending to use the weapon?
QED


He didn't, if you have been paying attention, TM confronted GZ. GZ was observing, not confronting.
 
2013-07-08 03:41:53 PM  

TheWhoppah: If he can't fight, why would he confront a stranger in the dark unless he intended to use the firearm?


He wouldn't.  He didn't.
 
2013-07-08 03:42:01 PM  

heili skrimsli: HAMMERTOE: cretinbob: So am I getting this right, the defense is now doing the prosecutions job?

Other way around.

The prosecution is done presenting their version of the defense's case.

Now we are hearing the actual defense's version of the defense's case.


I was referring to the MMA instructor's testimony and questions directed by the defense.
Portraying Zimmerman as a pussy who can't defend himself without a weapon isn't very smart.
I did miss what happened earlier and haven't gone through the thread for the Fark slant yet.
 
2013-07-08 03:42:19 PM  

TheWhoppah: The MMA instructor just put the nail in GZ's coffin...
If GZ is so fat and bad at fighting, why would he confront a stranger on the sidewalk at night... unless he started the confrontation intending to use the weapon?
QED


You got that from that?
 
2013-07-08 03:43:35 PM  

TheWhoppah: If he can't fight, why would he confront a stranger in the dark unless he intended to use the firearm?


0/10
 
2013-07-08 03:43:48 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: TheWhoppah

The MMA instructor just put the nail in GZ's coffin...
If GZ is so fat and bad at fighting, why would he confront a stranger on the sidewalk at night... unless he started the confrontation intending to use the weapon?

The only accounts of who confronted whom both agree Martin confronted Zimmerman.



Following someone in a vehicle and then getting out to follow them on foot is not something a helpless lame fat person would do unless perhaps they were emboldened by a weapon.
 
2013-07-08 03:44:45 PM  
cretinbob:
I was referring to the MMA instructor's testimony and questions directed by the defense.
Portraying Zimmerman as a pussy who can't defend himself without a weapon isn't very smart.
I did miss what happened earlier and haven't gone through the thread for the Fark slant yet.


On the flip side of that, his argument for self defense rests on the fact that he feared for his life.  They want the jury to believe that Martin would have had no problem gaining the upper hand and kicking this guy's ass.
 
2013-07-08 03:45:23 PM  

TheWhoppah: If he can't fight, why would he confront a stranger in the dark unless he intended to use the firearm?


There is no evidence to support that he confronted anyone.  Not only that, but he has a prior history of only observing and reporting (and NOT interacting with suspicious people).  Any psychology major worth their salt will tell you that the biggest predictor of future behavior is past behavior.  Having said that, some asshole or punk will undoubtedly say "...but he assaulted an officer/spousal abuse".  I would argue that those situations were under control of different stimuli and this comparison would be inaccurate.  It would be more accurate to compare this situation to near-identical situations.  Even if you were to count these two instances as violent predictive behavior, it is still far outweighed by the number of times he was non-violent.
 
2013-07-08 03:45:23 PM  

AngryDragon: Nina Haagen Dazs: GORDON: The race riots will be amusing.

I'll bet law enforcement and homeland security are looking forward to it. They can demonstrate their strength and discourage further uprisings.

I was thinking earlier that this would be a good chance to try new drone tactics.


I mentioned this to a friend who's been following this a lot closer than I have, he thought I was nuts until he thought about it a bit. I guess we'll see.
 
2013-07-08 03:46:47 PM  

Abuse Liability: There is no evidence to support that he confronted anyone.


Will this be the times that it sinks in?

Nah, I doubt it.
 
2013-07-08 03:46:57 PM  

Loadmaster: Limeyluv: Just get ready for the riots in case they find him not guilty.

I predict race riots no matter what the verdict is.


Only if Zim walks,which he should.

I will not burn my neighborhood for him. Only an idiot would burn their neighborhood over a court case not connected to themselves.
 
2013-07-08 03:47:08 PM  

TheWhoppah: Facetious_Speciest: TheWhoppah

The MMA instructor just put the nail in GZ's coffin...
If GZ is so fat and bad at fighting, why would he confront a stranger on the sidewalk at night... unless he started the confrontation intending to use the weapon?

The only accounts of who confronted whom both agree Martin confronted Zimmerman.


Following someone in a vehicle and then getting out to follow them on foot is not something a helpless lame fat person would do unless perhaps they were emboldened by a weapon.


You plan on farking that chicken all the way to completion, aren't you?

Read the 911 transcript. Zimmerman had no intent to shoot anyone, he was reporting someone suspicious. Trayvon made it a physical confrontation.
 
2013-07-08 03:47:51 PM  

TheWhoppah: The MMA instructor just put the nail in GZ's coffin...
If GZ is so fat and bad at fighting, why would he confront a stranger on the sidewalk at night... unless he started the confrontation intending to use the weapon?
QED


There is NO evidence he confronted Martin.
In his previous incidents with the 911 calls, he called in, reported an event, and then kept track where the person was so that when the police arrive he could tell them where the person was.
Precious' testimony made it seem that Martin confronted George
 
2013-07-08 03:48:09 PM  

the lord god: Only an idiot would burn their neighborhood over a court case not connected to themselves.


8 extra words.
 
2013-07-08 03:48:10 PM  

TheWhoppah: Following someone in a vehicle and then getting out to follow them on foot is not something a helpless lame fat person would do unless perhaps they were emboldened by a weapon.


Forget it. The helpless lame fat people who are busy defending Martin don't get it, and don't want to get it.

Of course he wasn't fat at the time.

ANyway I just popped back in to mention the testimony of Mr. MMA talking about how physically exhausting a fight is. Then think about how Zimmerman wasn't out of breath. It takes like 20 minutes for your body to recover from strenuous activity if you aren't in constant tip-top shape. The cops arrived after...less than 2?
 
2013-07-08 03:48:18 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Cletus C.: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Cletus C.: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Cletus C.: Boojum2k: siva: because it is readily apparent that Trayvon Martin wouldn't have died if Zimmerman had acted with a small bit of restraint and common decency.

He should totally have let Trayvon beat him to death, that would have been the decent thing to do.

You think if Zimmerman had left it with the cops after calling them, Martin then would have followed him to his home and beaten him to death as Georgie Boy was sitting down for his evening constitutional?

I like how Zimmerman is the one who "acted without restraint", not the guy who attacked him for no reason.

No reason that he can give anyway.

So, seance then? Have a psyhic medium tell us? Wild guesses? Or should we form an opinion based on the facts that we do know, instead of uselessly speculating on those that we don't?

Martin has told no lies. He's about the only one.

He told Zimmerman "you're gonna die tonight", so that's at least one lie.


Oh did he now? This is on a recording or something?
 
2013-07-08 03:48:35 PM  
I'm sorry but a pussy wimp girly-man is not going to be getting out of his car to observe a suspicious person in the dark unless he is packing heat and are willing to use it.
If you can't see this then you are so far up GZ's ass that you only see confirmation bias.
 
2013-07-08 03:49:05 PM  

TheWhoppah: If he can't fight, why would he confront a stranger in the dark unless he intended to use the firearm?


Look at all these bites.

I think you just leveled up to Master Troll.
 
2013-07-08 03:49:08 PM  
TheWhoppah

Following someone in a vehicle and then getting out to follow them on foot is not something a helpless lame fat person would do unless perhaps they were emboldened by a weapon.

How do you know? Five minutes ago, you thought Zimmerman confronted Martin. Who knows what you'll think five minutes from now.
 
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