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(WPTV)   Will the prosecution cry "Uncle" after GZ's uncle's testimony? Will the judge rule that the defense can't present a defense because it might cause the jury to decide "not guilty"? Will these Zimmerman trial threads ever end? Not today   (wptv.com) divider line 1158
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman, prosecutors, uncles, jury  
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5207 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 9:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 03:02:29 PM

AngryDragon: The Singing Bush: So what could I do then?  Remember, in this scenario they threatened me and I attacked them in self-defense because I feared for my life.  I was unable to to disarm someone who legitimately could unholster his gun and shoot me.  So I have to let them shoot me?  That doesn't seem right.

Still no.  The standard is imminent threat.  A person standing there displaying a holstered firearm saying stupid shiat isn't the smartest person in the room, but it's still not an imminent threat.  Despite what some of my fellow citizens believe, the mere presence of a firearms is not an imminent threat of death


The scenario laid out was that he threatened me and lifted his shirt as to go for the gun.  Is that not an imminent threat?
 
2013-07-08 03:02:59 PM

Facetious_Speciest: You know, it's good for his case and all, but this has to be incredibly embarrassing to Zimmerman.


Fighting is a discipline that requires years of dedication.

No shame in being a beginner.
 
2013-07-08 03:03:45 PM

Tatsuma: Facetious_Speciest: You know, it's good for his case and all, but this has to be incredibly embarrassing to Zimmerman.

Hahaha yeah I mean in the last 15 minutes we've learned:

- Grossly obese
- On a scale of 1 to 10, he started on at a .5 and at his best got to a 1 out of 10
- Did not know how to punch
- Had no idea how to kick
- Did not know how to defend himself
- Weak and could barely lift weights
- Looked traumatized after the incident with Trayvon


but, at least you know, he was diligent.


Could a 17 year old athlete kick his @$$?
 
2013-07-08 03:03:51 PM
washington-babylon:
That is correct. I am aware of that fact (and also aware that the Native American slave trade flourished for an estimated 300 years), however I was pointing out the fact that even at the end of the Civil war there were slaves from almost every race being held against their will in the U.S. Whether or not one race was the majority or not doesn't give them any more right to pull the "Because slavery" card. I have ancestors on my mother's side who were Irish slaves, so I could have equal right to pull that card if chose to. Oddly enough, youNever hear any of the other enslaved races from that time period pull that card. Why is that? What is so different?

Well, it's not EXACTLY the same situation.  I don't hold anyone accountable for what their ancestors may have done, and it is important to move forward, but the Irish were eventually accepted and treated just the same as other whites.  It's easier to get over the past when you aren't STILL an underclass.  Blacks fought for years, DECADES for every right they have.  Tooth and nail, finding resistance at every turn.  Ok they can't LEGALLY be slaves, but no voting.  OK they can vote, but must drink from the colored fountain.  I can understand if some of them are still a tad bitter, I can't say I wouldn't be.  A country brings their ancestors over to be slaves, then gets mad at them when they try to be our equals.  I'd be a bit pissed.
 
2013-07-08 03:03:53 PM

TheWhoppah: Wangiss: ChaosStar: What people do not seem to be able to comprehend is nothing prior to the concrete being used and/or Martin reaching for the gun matters.
None of it. At all. Period.
Doesn't matter if GZ chased Martin calling him every racial slur in the book.
Doesn't matter if GZ threw the first punch or Martin did.

As soon as lethal force was used, or attempted to be used again GZ, he was within his rights as someone afraid for his life to use his ccw.
The concrete is a deadly weapon, and was used.
Reaching for GZ's gun was lethal force attempting to be utilized.

This completely nullifies not only a murder charge but a manslaughter or any other homicide charge.
Not my opinion, that's the law.

Well put.


Unless GZ displayed the gun FIRST and TM was attempting to use the concrete to disarm him... In that scenario the use of the concrete was justified and GZ is guilty of murder.


Since we are going to pull shiat out of our butts..
Another scenario is that they were discussing the neighborhood and GZ said, "I am going to fill you full of holes you no good black punk, you dont deserve to walk on the sidewalk at the same time as the man:

In such a case use of the concrete was justified.

...now, back to reality, already in progress...
 
2013-07-08 03:04:01 PM

FitzShivering: I don't ever want my old Master to testify in court now.

"How would you rate him on a scale of 1 to 10."

"HAHAHAHAH.  I WOULD RATE HIM POTATO!"


HAHAHAHA SOFT POTATO
 
2013-07-08 03:04:05 PM

NightOwl2255: ChaosStar: You cannot, however, use lethal force even at this point, such as bashing their head into cement or beating them to where they fear they are going to die, as no actual lethal force was used against you and you have effectively neutralized the threat and taken control.

Aside from the fact he actually managed to pull the weapon and shoot and kill...right? So, according to you, if in fact Zimmerman had threatened Martin with his gun, and Martin was legally justified in using force, he would not have been within his rights to use fatal force until when? Until Zimmerman shot and killed him? Martin would then been justified in using fatal force?


Huh?
If Z had threatened M with the gun, he would have been within his rights to use lethal force, say if M had a gun. Once M had Z on the ground and has the advantage, if the gun is still in Z's hand, M can use the pavement, say while holding Z's arm down.
If the gun is not in Z's hand M cannot use the pavement as there is no longer lethal force to be used against M and he has the advantage.
Flashing a holstered gun, is not threatening with the gun.
 
2013-07-08 03:04:27 PM

Facetious_Speciest: You know, it's good for his case and all, but this has to be incredibly embarrassing to Zimmerman.


He's used to it by now
 
2013-07-08 03:04:28 PM
"zimmerman was fat and soft."

lol
 
2013-07-08 03:04:35 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, seance then? Have a psyhic medium tell us?


Hey, it worked in Rashomon.

Or did it?
 
2013-07-08 03:06:04 PM

WillofJ2: Could a 17 year old athlete kick his @$$?


Hmmm, let me wonder if a 17 year old athlete could kick the ass of a man described as a 'soft, obese pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag'
 
2013-07-08 03:06:38 PM
...and that's why he carried a gun.

/captain obvious.
 
2013-07-08 03:06:46 PM

Elegy: Subtle media bias 101:

MSNBC keeps doing these "reenactments" and they keep putting the black guy on the bottom.

[i.imgur.com image 300x197]


Oh man, that brazzers tag at the bottom. I spit coffee all over my work laptop because of that.
 
2013-07-08 03:07:02 PM

omeganuepsilon: Tatsuma: Well the gym teacher is destroying the idea that Zimmerman was a fighter, knew how to fight, or was in shape.

yeah, lol.  As much as the prosecution tried to make GZ look like an MMA allstar, it's tedius but very smart.


Yes, now the entire world knows that after an entire year of training Zimmerman still could not throw a proper punch.
 
2013-07-08 03:07:35 PM
What are we getting at here? Zimmerman leaves for a few months and joins Pai Mei's gym in his offtime?
 
2013-07-08 03:08:16 PM

Tatsuma: WillofJ2: Could a 17 year old athlete kick his @$$?

Hmmm, let me wonder if a 17 year old athlete could kick the ass of a man described as a 'soft, obese pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag'


and yet...he shot a kid.
 
2013-07-08 03:08:21 PM

Tatsuma: WillofJ2: Could a 17 year old athlete kick his @$$?

Hmmm, let me wonder if a 17 year old athlete could kick the ass of a man described as a 'soft, obese pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag'


Its terrible I have been laughing about how this guy is a "character witness" as to how much of weak dough boy he was

16% body fat my @$$
 
2013-07-08 03:08:47 PM

The Singing Bush: AngryDragon: The Singing Bush: So what could I do then?  Remember, in this scenario they threatened me and I attacked them in self-defense because I feared for my life.  I was unable to to disarm someone who legitimately could unholster his gun and shoot me.  So I have to let them shoot me?  That doesn't seem right.

Still no.  The standard is imminent threat.  A person standing there displaying a holstered firearm saying stupid shiat isn't the smartest person in the room, but it's still not an imminent threat.  Despite what some of my fellow citizens believe, the mere presence of a firearms is not an imminent threat of death

The scenario laid out was that he threatened me and lifted his shirt as to go for the gun.  Is that not an imminent threat?


In Florida it would be. There was a SYG hearing where a case got thrown out because a man shot someone who said he was "packing heat" and had corroborating witnesses.
 
2013-07-08 03:08:55 PM

s2s2s2: washington-babylon: I just wish to point out that there were victims from MANY races.

According to UberFacts, the CURRENT going rate for a slave, worldwide, is $90.


Hardly a reliable source of information. Plus, there are too many unknowns. Is the slave an adult? Male or Female? Virgin or not? Diseased? Malnourished? Strong/weak? Teeth intact?

/all of these were factors considered in 1720-1860's slave markets in America.
 
2013-07-08 03:09:15 PM

heili skrimsli: Yes, now the entire world knows that after an entire year of training Zimmerman still could not throw a proper punch.


Also that he used to be 5'8" and 260 pounds, and he was a soft guy.

I wonder how hard the guy is struggling in terms of not yelling  'HE WAS A FARKING PUSSY, OK? ZIMMERMAN, YOU LOOK EVEN FATTER NOW. 20 PUSHUPS, NOW!'
 
2013-07-08 03:09:58 PM

The Singing Bush: OK, so if I'm reading this right, I can attack someone for reaching for his gun as a preventative to felony action, but not with lethal force even if I feared for my life.

You may use lethal force, say a gun.

I am unable to disarm him, so I have not neutralized the threat. But I can't try to knock him unconscious so that I can disarm him? If they are not disarmed, meaning they have the weapon in hand, you can use whatever is at your disposal to neutralize the threat including lethal force.

I have to just kinda go along with the fight and toe the line to where he doesn't fear for his life and in hopes he doesn't pull his gun and shoot? Seriously, those are my options? Your scenario keeps changing. At one point they are reaching for the weapon, in the next you haven't disarmed them, and then finally they have not utilized the weapon as it's still in the holster. Either they're trying to pull their weapon or they're not, which is it?
 
2013-07-08 03:10:00 PM

lousyskater: Elegy: Subtle media bias 101:

MSNBC keeps doing these "reenactments" and they keep putting the black guy on the bottom.

[i.imgur.com image 300x197]

Oh man, that brazzers tag at the bottom. I spit coffee all over my work laptop because of that.


What is Brazzers?
 
2013-07-08 03:11:10 PM

WillofJ2: Its terrible I have been laughing about how this guy is a "character witness" as to how much of weak dough boy he was

16% body fat my @$$


Yeah at first I was cringing but by the end I was just laughing my ass off too.

And 16? Try 40-50 at his biggest, and then around 25-30 when he was arrested.
 
2013-07-08 03:11:12 PM

Bauer: Tatsuma: WillofJ2: Could a 17 year old athlete kick his @$$?

Hmmm, let me wonder if a 17 year old athlete could kick the ass of a man described as a 'soft, obese pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag'

and yet...he shot a kid.


"God created man, Sam Colt made them equal." Also, I doubt he was aware how old the guy on top of him beating him into the ground was.
 
2013-07-08 03:11:43 PM
I have to admit, before the trial I was 100% on Team Treyvon, but every day of this sways me more and more to Not Guilty. Doesn't help that the prosecution is godawful at this.
 
2013-07-08 03:11:45 PM
george zimmerman is an ignore list.
 
2013-07-08 03:12:21 PM
God this prosecutor is lobbing softballs for the defense witness. He's completely undermining his own prosecution angle.
 
2013-07-08 03:12:21 PM

The Singing Bush: ChaosStar: The Singing Bush: ChaosStar: o, just showing you a holstered gun does not qualify as lethal force. It certainly warrants you calling the police, because that's illegal, and getting the hell out of the situation, but legally you can't kill them for just flashing you a view of their gun.
Now if they said "I'm gonna kill you The Singing Bush!" and they start reaching to lift their shirt, such as to produce a weapon, you do not have to wait for them to actually produce the weapon. You can attack them right then and there as a preventative to the felony action.
You cannot, however, use lethal force even at this point, such as bashing their head into cement or beating them to where they fear they are going to die, as no actual lethal force was used against you and you have effectively neutralized the threat and taken control.

What if I wasn't using lethal force, but I was just hitting their head into cement to try to knock them unconscious?  Maybe I reached for the gun and they were able to stop me from grabbing it, so my only chance to truly neutralize the threat was to knock them out.  I can't do that?

Using the concrete, at all, is lethal force, period.
Reaching for their gun is a threat to their life, because they don't know what you're going to do when you get it. This is what happened with the GZ case.

OK, so if I'm reading this right, I can attack someone for reaching for his gun as a preventative to felony action, but not with lethal force even if I feared for my life.  I am unable to disarm him, so I have not neutralized the threat.  But I can't try to knock him unconscious so that I can disarm him?  I have to just kinda go along with the fight and toe the line to where he doesn't fear for his life and in hopes he doesn't pull his gun and shoot?  Seriously, those are my options?


A good rule of thumb is to simply not attack people, ever. Just diffuse the situation and/or call the police.

I think the only reason you're coming up with these ridiculous scenarios is in a desperate attempt to conform to your belief that Trayvon Martin was justified in assaulting Zimmerman, which he was not. Nor would you be if you did the same thing, or many variations of it.

Don't attack people. Don't assault people. It's really not a difficult concept.
 
2013-07-08 03:12:25 PM

Tatsuma: WillofJ2: Its terrible I have been laughing about how this guy is a "character witness" as to how much of weak dough boy he was

16% body fat my @$$

Yeah at first I was cringing but by the end I was just laughing my ass off too.

And 16? Try 40-50 at his biggest, and then around 25-30 when he was arrested.


The only way that would makes sense would be if he said he lost 16-20%
 
2013-07-08 03:12:31 PM
Hahahaha 'If the defender had told you he had been able to get out from under someone and subdue him, would you believe him?' 'Absolutely not'
 
2013-07-08 03:13:56 PM

Boojum2k: Bauer: Tatsuma: WillofJ2: Could a 17 year old athlete kick his @$$?

Hmmm, let me wonder if a 17 year old athlete could kick the ass of a man described as a 'soft, obese pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag'

and yet...he shot a kid.

"God created man, Sam Colt made them equal." Also, I doubt he was aware how old the guy on top of him beating him into the ground was.


before he shot him...he reported that he was a teen.
 
2013-07-08 03:14:21 PM

redmid17: God this prosecutor is lobbing softballs for the defense witness. He's completely undermining his own prosecution angle.


"so what you are still saying if zimmerman would get his @$$ kicked in any fight situation and with out a gun would be dead?"

I am waiting for it
 
2013-07-08 03:14:23 PM

Raiden333: I have to admit, before the trial I was 100% on Team Treyvon, but every day of this sways me more and more to Not Guilty. Doesn't help that the prosecution is godawful at this.


Can't blame you, the inaccurate reporting early on got me too.  To be fair, any time a 17 year old kid gets killed it's upsetting and never good.  The way it was initially reported, you'd think he went to Martin's house, kicked down the door and shot him 9 times in the back as he tried to flee for his life.  I was outraged.

But now, it looks like two knuckleheads got mixed up in the worst possible way.  One knucklehead playing  cop, and another knucklehead trying to prove how tough he is.  Their lives intersected in just the wrong way.  It's tragic, but it isn't murder.
 
2013-07-08 03:14:33 PM

washington-babylon: /all of these were factors considered in 1720-1860's slave markets in America.


My point being that slaves are still sold, today.
 
2013-07-08 03:15:09 PM

justtray: A good rule of thumb is to simply not attack people, ever. Just diffuse the situation and/or call the police.

I think the only reason you're coming up with these ridiculous scenarios is in a desperate attempt to conform to your belief that Trayvon Martin was justified in assaulting Zimmerman, which he was not. Nor would you be if you did the same thing, or many variations of it.

Don't attack people. Don't assault people. It's really not a difficult concept.


Yeah, pretty much this, unless you just have no alternative and feel you're going to die.
 
2013-07-08 03:16:58 PM

ChaosStar: The Singing Bush: OK, so if I'm reading this right, I can attack someone for reaching for his gun as a preventative to felony action, but not with lethal force even if I feared for my life. You may use lethal force, say a gun.

I am unable to disarm him, so I have not neutralized the threat. But I can't try to knock him unconscious so that I can disarm him? If they are not disarmed, meaning they have the weapon in hand, you can use whatever is at your disposal to neutralize the threat including lethal force.

I have to just kinda go along with the fight and toe the line to where he doesn't fear for his life and in hopes he doesn't pull his gun and shoot? Seriously, those are my options? Your scenario keeps changing. At one point they are reaching for the weapon, in the next you haven't disarmed them, and then finally they have not utilized the weapon as it's still in the holster. Either they're trying to pull their weapon or they're not, which is it?


My story never changed.  From the beginning person threatened me and reached for his gun.  I never said nor implied that he got it out of the holster.  I attacked them because they threatened me and reached for their gun, and was unable to get the gun away from them.
 
2013-07-08 03:17:28 PM

ObnoxiousLonghorn: DROxINxTHExWIND: Facetious_Speciest: You don't have to prove you didn't commit a crime. The state has to prove you're guilty.

...except if you're black and walking home. In that scenerio, you should respond respectfully to every question that some stranger has about whether you "belong" in your neighborhood.

Trolling is an art and you are lacking in talent.



This guy thinks that there is an "art" to making disengenuous statements on the internet for the sole purpose of having someone disagree with you. And he's here to judge me.


/Its not an art. Its a waste of time
//kind of like my response to you
 
2013-07-08 03:17:45 PM
Is this prosecutor trying to make the case that Zimmerman was just looking to practice his MMA to prove to his master that he was worthy?

"Could Zimmerman take the pebbles from your hand?!"
 
2013-07-08 03:18:37 PM

WillofJ2: lousyskater: Elegy: Subtle media bias 101:

MSNBC keeps doing these "reenactments" and they keep putting the black guy on the bottom.

[i.imgur.com image 300x197]

Oh man, that brazzers tag at the bottom. I spit coffee all over my work laptop because of that.

What is Brazzers?


Pornsite. Adding brazzers tag to non-porn images is an age old Internet past time.
 
2013-07-08 03:18:44 PM
Hahaha he couldn't even throw a proper hook or even a jab.

Seriously no one can ever pretend that Zimmerman could have beaten up Martin.
 
2013-07-08 03:18:45 PM

ChaosStar: justtray: A good rule of thumb is to simply not attack people, ever. Just diffuse the situation and/or call the police.

I think the only reason you're coming up with these ridiculous scenarios is in a desperate attempt to conform to your belief that Trayvon Martin was justified in assaulting Zimmerman, which he was not. Nor would you be if you did the same thing, or many variations of it.

Don't attack people. Don't assault people. It's really not a difficult concept.

Yeah, pretty much this, unless you just have no alternative and feel you're going to die.


Here's how it could have went:

TM:  Sup man, whatcha following me for?
GZ:  Oh, well I'm with the neighborhood watch and I've never seen you before.
TM:  Oh that's cool.  Well my (whatever relative it was) lives here and I'm visiting.
GZ:  Cool.  We've had some burglaries, so keep an eye out.
(police arrive)
GZ:  He's visiting family here, sorry for the false alarm, guys.
Police:  Alright, you fellas take care then.
 
2013-07-08 03:18:50 PM

Bauer: Boojum2k: Bauer: Tatsuma: WillofJ2: Could a 17 year old athlete kick his @$$?

Hmmm, let me wonder if a 17 year old athlete could kick the ass of a man described as a 'soft, obese pussy who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag'

and yet...he shot a kid.

"God created man, Sam Colt made them equal." Also, I doubt he was aware how old the guy on top of him beating him into the ground was.

before he shot him...he reported that he was a teen.


True enough. Still not a kid.
 
2013-07-08 03:19:04 PM

nekom: Raiden333: I have to admit, before the trial I was 100% on Team Treyvon, but every day of this sways me more and more to Not Guilty. Doesn't help that the prosecution is godawful at this.

Can't blame you, the inaccurate reporting early on got me too.  To be fair, any time a 17 year old kid gets killed it's upsetting and never good.  The way it was initially reported, you'd think he went to Martin's house, kicked down the door and shot him 9 times in the back as he tried to flee for his life.  I was outraged.

But now, it looks like two knuckleheads got mixed up in the worst possible way.  One knucklehead playing  cop, and another knucklehead trying to prove how tough he is.  Their lives intersected in just the wrong way.  It's tragic, but it isn't murder.


Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
2013-07-08 03:19:16 PM

Elegy: WillofJ2: lousyskater: Elegy: Subtle media bias 101:

MSNBC keeps doing these "reenactments" and they keep putting the black guy on the bottom.

[i.imgur.com image 300x197]

Oh man, that brazzers tag at the bottom. I spit coffee all over my work laptop because of that.

What is Brazzers?

Pornsite. Adding brazzers tag to non-porn images is an age old Internet past time.


Ah i see
 
2013-07-08 03:20:13 PM
'He still had a long way to go. He was not shred, or ripped. He had more body fat to lose. He needed to gain a bit of muscle, greatly improved but by no means ready to be a competitive athlete, or fight any competitive athlete. When I last saw him, I would still consider him soft'
 
2013-07-08 03:20:48 PM

justtray: A good rule of thumb is to simply not attack people, ever. Just diffuse the situation and/or call the police.

I think the only reason you're coming up with these ridiculous scenarios is in a desperate attempt to conform to your belief that Trayvon Martin was justified in assaulting Zimmerman, which he was not. Nor would you be if you did the same thing, or many variations of it.

Don't attack people. Don't assault people. It's really not a difficult concept.


No - I'm coming up with these scenarios because I want to understand the law better.  If someone threatens me and reaches for a gun, if I'm close enough, I'm attacking them.  I consider myself a fairly fast runner, but I can't run faster than a bullet.
 
2013-07-08 03:21:29 PM

The Singing Bush: ChaosStar: The Singing Bush: OK, so if I'm reading this right, I can attack someone for reaching for his gun as a preventative to felony action, but not with lethal force even if I feared for my life. You may use lethal force, say a gun.

I am unable to disarm him, so I have not neutralized the threat. But I can't try to knock him unconscious so that I can disarm him? If they are not disarmed, meaning they have the weapon in hand, you can use whatever is at your disposal to neutralize the threat including lethal force.

I have to just kinda go along with the fight and toe the line to where he doesn't fear for his life and in hopes he doesn't pull his gun and shoot? Seriously, those are my options? Your scenario keeps changing. At one point they are reaching for the weapon, in the next you haven't disarmed them, and then finally they have not utilized the weapon as it's still in the holster. Either they're trying to pull their weapon or they're not, which is it?

My story never changed.  From the beginning person threatened me and reached for his gun.  I never said nor implied that he got it out of the holster.  I attacked them because they threatened me and reached for their gun, and was unable to get the gun away from them.


Well there's your problem right there, you don't try to get the gun away from them, because it's still in the holster.
You neutralize the threat, aka them.
You don't go for another person's holstered gun, with very few exceptions.
 
2013-07-08 03:21:33 PM

The Singing Bush: If someone threatens me and reaches for a gun, if I'm close enough, I'm attacking them.


That is perfectly reasonable.
 
2013-07-08 03:23:22 PM

GORDON: The race riots will be amusing.


I'll bet law enforcement and homeland security are looking forward to it. They can demonstrate their strength and discourage further uprisings.
 
2013-07-08 03:23:38 PM

nekom: ChaosStar: justtray: A good rule of thumb is to simply not attack people, ever. Just diffuse the situation and/or call the police.

I think the only reason you're coming up with these ridiculous scenarios is in a desperate attempt to conform to your belief that Trayvon Martin was justified in assaulting Zimmerman, which he was not. Nor would you be if you did the same thing, or many variations of it.

Don't attack people. Don't assault people. It's really not a difficult concept.

Yeah, pretty much this, unless you just have no alternative and feel you're going to die.

Here's how it could have went:

TM:  Sup man, whatcha following me for?
GZ:  Oh, well I'm with the neighborhood watch and I've never seen you before.
TM:  Oh that's cool.  Well my (whatever relative it was) lives here and I'm visiting.
GZ:  Cool.  We've had some burglaries, so keep an eye out.
(police arrive)
GZ:  He's visiting family here, sorry for the false alarm, guys.
Police:  Alright, you fellas take care then.


Yep, no one is stupid, no one dies.
 
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