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(WPTV)   Will the prosecution cry "Uncle" after GZ's uncle's testimony? Will the judge rule that the defense can't present a defense because it might cause the jury to decide "not guilty"? Will these Zimmerman trial threads ever end? Not today   (wptv.com) divider line 1158
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman, prosecutors, uncles, jury  
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5207 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 9:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 11:47:40 AM

s2s2s2: The defense should call an English teacher to explain to the jury the fundamental difference in the words "these" and "this", "him" and "they".


The jury would probably understand that more than the good people of fark
 
2013-07-08 11:47:58 AM

Xenomech: The cognitive dissonance in these Zimmerman threads is astounding.

If Zimmerman didn't want to be put into a position where he'd have to use deadly force to protect himself from an attack, then he shouldn't have been investigating a suspicious person in his neighborhood while armed.  And if a woman didn't want to be put into a position where she'd be raped, then she should not be walking around sketchy areas while wearing skimpy clothing.  Right?


That sounds like the jist of the Martin defenders position.
 
2013-07-08 11:48:08 AM
Geez, this guy's gonna have a flashback on the stand.
 
2013-07-08 11:48:27 AM

Xenomech: The cognitive dissonance in these Zimmerman threads is astounding.

If Zimmerman didn't want to be put into a position where he'd have to use deadly force to protect himself from an attack, then he shouldn't have been investigating a suspicious person in his neighborhood while armed.  And if a woman didn't want to be put into a position where she'd be raped, then she should not be walking around sketchy areas while wearing skimpy clothing.  Right?


Winner!!!
 
2013-07-08 11:48:59 AM

The Muthaship: Hobodeluxe: Nah George will get rich

How much money would he have to make from this in order for you to want to trade places with him?

And where will this money come from?


NBC most likely
 
2013-07-08 11:49:08 AM
Oh that witness is just so farking awesome.
 
2013-07-08 11:49:18 AM

HAMMERTOE: You can't change the facts.


They do a great job of ignoring them, though.
 
2013-07-08 11:49:59 AM

Smackledorfer: ChaosStar: You somehow have it in your head that if GZ pulled his weapon in response to the lethal force used against him having him fearing for his life and the weapon misfired, Martin would be justified in killing GZ. This is false.

I was just going by what you claimed the law was, that nothing up until the last bit mattered. You said that nothing mattered up until the concrete was used. Except what we don't know, because somebody is dead and can't say, is whether or not they felt and could articulate a belief that they would be facing serious bodily harm if weren't giving the fight their all. My point is that it does. I'm glad we agree now, that your earlier statement was incorrect.


No, you're inventing things to change the scenario.
Nothing, at all, prior to Martin using the concrete or going for the gun, matters in the scope of this trial. Those two events gave Z cause to fear for his life and defend it.
If you want to start changing things with hypotheticals, then the prior fact could very well change.

Smackledorfer: ChaosStar: A trial is not an investigation, the investigation comes before the trial, If the investigation finds your claim of self defense to be true, you don't go to trial (you're not supposed to anyway). If they do, they recommend charges, charges are filed, the jury decides your guilt on those charges.

I really can't spell it out any clearer.

Is self-defense a defense at trial or not? Are trials decided by juries or not? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then juries do in fact make determinations on the justification of use of deadly force. The fact that there are pretrial decisions made by the prosecution and law enforcement do not eliminate that fact.

Amusingly enough you are arguing with me about this in a farking thread in which you believe that Zimmerman is not guilty because he was justified in shooting Treyvon because his head hit concrete. So in this case, the investigators and prosecution decided that no, it was not self defense, and the defense is arguing that it is self-defense, and this may amaze the hell out of you, but the jury is going to decide who is right.

At this point you have to be trolling.


Self defense is an affirmative defense, yes, and if we lived in a country where you were guilty until proven innocent then you would be correct.
Fortunately, we are all innocent until proven guilty, so the jury doesn't decide if your defense is correct, they decide if the accusation of guilt is correct. In this case, the police and DA's office decided it was self defense, there was immense social pressure, and an outside source circumvented the legal process and filed charges to bring about an illegal trial. The jury is not deciding who's right, they are deciding if GZ is guilty of the charges levied at him.
It's ok, most people don't fully understand how the legal system is supposed to work either, so it's a common mistake (as is evident by a lot of posts in these threads).
 
2013-07-08 11:50:15 AM

redmid17: NBC most likely


He should get a nice check from them.

/Also, turn Melissa Harris-Perry upside down and shake whatever is in her pockets out.
 
2013-07-08 11:50:25 AM

s2s2s2: So the only person to definitively say that it was Trayvon is his mom?


His brother and a neighbor/witness
 
2013-07-08 11:50:36 AM
DROxINxTHExWIND

I'm sure they would be as accepting if they went to an inner city and they were followed and questioned by a resident.

I don't think the proper response is to punch someone in the face.
 
2013-07-08 11:50:54 AM

ELKAY: jaybeezey: ELKAY: I really hope GZ doesn't get off. The last thing we need in this country is a bunch of a$$hole vigilante's thinking they now have a hunting license for black teenagers.

He clearly did not act as a reasonable or responsible person that night and deserves a manslaughter charge.

Right? Because it's such a prevalent attitude now. I'd hate for it to get bolstered.

Most everyone i know is just chomping at the bit to have his/her life turned inside out on national TV so they can smoke some kid.

Don't live in fear and hate and everything will be OK.

Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?

YES

Would you feel safe if a George Zimmerman wannabe lived in your neighborhood?

YES

I wouldn't. I think this man with past assault charges and domestic violence charges who has now killed a teenager under questionable circumstances should not be allowed to own a fire arm.

Authorities believed differently at the time of the fatal encounter. Future evaluation will be in the hands of the appropriate authorities.

He clearly acted with reckless disregard for human life, he is a proven liar, his story from that night does not add up, and while there is not enough evidence for murder I think manslaughter is a slam dunk. I hope the jury has that option.

He clearly did NOT act with reckless disregard for human life.  He is NOT a proven liar. His story DOES add up. Neither murder 2nd nor manslaughter is likely as an outcome in this case.

 
2013-07-08 11:51:09 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Hey blacks, don't forget to keep your hood off in the rain, unless you want to be mistaken for an intruder. Smh.


Come on, Dro. I know you better. The hood would have meant nothing if Zimmerman hadn't seen Martin coming out of somebody else's back yard.

Hood != "intruder".

Trespassing = "Intruder".

Or are you claiming to be less intelligent than Zimmerman?
 
2013-07-08 11:51:18 AM

AngryDragon: limeyfellow: What I yet to see though is why stand your ground laws don't apply to Trayvon Martin.

Self defense cannot be invoked during the commission of a felony (aggravated assault)


"The crazy ass LARP cop ran me down and threatened my life. He had a gun and was gonna killed me. Once I had the super hand I couldn't stop hitting him till I knew he wasn't getting up. So sad he died"

There'd be pretty much the same amount of evidence as to who started what as we have now.
 
2013-07-08 11:51:33 AM

AngryDragon: kerrigand:

Aren't you forgetting about the police officers, that could have very well been biased towards GZ due to what he put them through on the assault of the homeless guy? Yet, they we're just as good for the defense as John Good was.

I wonder what the odd of that story making it into evidence are?  I can't think of a better way to demonstrate character.


I am surprised that did not come up in the cross of the witnesses.
IIANAL and maybe the prosecution would have squashed it.  But asking if they had any previous interactions with George would seem like an allowable question
 
2013-07-08 11:52:39 AM

Scerpes: She chose to bring charges via information rather than indictment.


And let's not forget that she (apparently intentionally seeing as she had it in her possession) excluded exculpatory evidence from that indictment when it was given to a judge to approve at the preliminary hearing before Zimmerman was arrested. Specifically Zimmerman's injury photographs.
 
2013-07-08 11:52:39 AM

Hobodeluxe: Radioactive Ass: LasersHurt: There's also no evidence to support that he's an innocent man who was attacked and had to defend himself. It's just that he's the only one alive to tell his side.

Well aside from Good's and W#8's testimony that is.

Neither of which saw the start of the fight or actual blows landing or see which one was screaming


Wait, are you one of those people that thinks just because the witness could only see a punching motion and not the actual fist hitting face, that the fact that Martin punched Zimmerman is in doubt?
 
2013-07-08 11:53:05 AM

ELKAY: Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?


I would rather have him as my neighbor than some of my actual neighbors.
 
2013-07-08 11:53:09 AM

limeyfellow: isn't that what stand your ground laws are about. If you fear for your life you have the right to fight back with all weapons at your disposal?


No, and that confusion is been the most frustrating part of this whole thing.

SYG simply says you have no duty to retreat when faced with a threat.

The right to fight back with any weapon at your disposal when you (legitimately) fear for your life is the basic right of self defense.
 
2013-07-08 11:53:21 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Xcott

...instead, he decided to act like a cop, go after and confront the kid and get into a fight with him.

There's nothing to suggest Zimmerman confronted Martin. Martin's friend Jeantel said Martin confronted him.


And she was totally a reliable witness.  Speaker of the gospel, I tell ya.
 
2013-07-08 11:53:36 AM
Ned Stark

"The crazy ass LARP cop ran me down and threatened my life. He had a gun and was gonna killed me. Once I had the super hand I couldn't stop hitting him till I knew he wasn't getting up. So sad he died"

There'd be pretty much the same amount of evidence as to who started what as we have now.


If the players were reversed with the same evidence (or lack thereof) that we have currently, I'd say Martin should walk.
 
2013-07-08 11:53:36 AM
And O'Mara scores!


And the State can't do shiat all about this witness because they will end up looking like major cocks they have to treat him with kids' gloves.
 
2013-07-08 11:53:42 AM

Ned Stark: AngryDragon: limeyfellow: What I yet to see though is why stand your ground laws don't apply to Trayvon Martin.

Self defense cannot be invoked during the commission of a felony (aggravated assault)

"The crazy ass LARP cop ran me down and threatened my life. He had a gun and was gonna killed me. Once I had the super hand I couldn't stop hitting him till I knew he wasn't getting up. So sad he died"

There'd be pretty much the same amount of evidence as to who started what as we have now.


Reasonable doubt then says he walks.
 
2013-07-08 11:53:51 AM

Cletus C.: Zimmerman playing Paul Blart is, was and always will be the problem. Without that asshattery a person isn't dead and another on trial. Farking dumbass.


"Can I help you?"
"What are you doing here?"
"Go fark yourself, I live on the next block."

Situation diffused.
Or you can go back and teach cracker ass cracker a lesson for following you and after you circled him in his car.
 
2013-07-08 11:53:56 AM
Zimmerman will be rightfully acquitted under the law as it stands.

The law as it stands, however, is a multi-faceted ten carat gem of farkwittage.
 
2013-07-08 11:54:40 AM
The Singing Bush

And she was totally a reliable witness. Speaker of the gospel, I tell ya.

Obviously not, but she's the only person to offer a course of events other than Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-08 11:54:44 AM

Hobodeluxe: Radioactive Ass: LasersHurt: There's also no evidence to support that he's an innocent man who was attacked and had to defend himself. It's just that he's the only one alive to tell his side.

Well aside from Good's and W#8's testimony that is.

Neither of which saw the start of the fight or actual blows landing or see which one was screaming


John Good specifically stated during his testimony that he saw Martin punching Zimmerman (or at least the man dressed like Martin was punching the man dressed like Zimmerman). Since there were not two identical fights breaking out on his lawn at the same time, it's fairly safe to say at least one person aside from Zimmerman saw punches thrown.
 
2013-07-08 11:54:59 AM

Ned Stark: AngryDragon: limeyfellow: What I yet to see though is why stand your ground laws don't apply to Trayvon Martin.

Self defense cannot be invoked during the commission of a felony (aggravated assault)

"The crazy ass LARP cop ran me down and threatened my life. He had a gun and was gonna killed me. Once I had the super hand I couldn't stop hitting him till I knew he wasn't getting up. So sad he died"

There'd be pretty much the same amount of evidence as to who started what as we have now.


Except there's no evidence of 99% of that happening, and lots of evidence showing the opposite of it happened.
Bold would get you convicted.
 
2013-07-08 11:55:26 AM

neversubmit: white people haven't rioted since the 20's


really? what's this then, youthful hijinks?:
www.umass.edu
 
2013-07-08 11:56:33 AM

lantawa: ELKAY: jaybeezey: ELKAY: I really hope GZ doesn't get off. The last thing we need in this country is a bunch of a$$hole vigilante's thinking they now have a hunting license for black teenagers.

He clearly did not act as a reasonable or responsible person that night and deserves a manslaughter charge.

Right? Because it's such a prevalent attitude now. I'd hate for it to get bolstered.

Most everyone i know is just chomping at the bit to have his/her life turned inside out on national TV so they can smoke some kid.

Don't live in fear and hate and everything will be OK.

Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?

YES

Would you feel safe if a George Zimmerman wannabe lived in your neighborhood?

YES

I wouldn't. I think this man with past assault charges and domestic violence charges who has now killed a teenager under questionable circumstances should not be allowed to own a fire arm.

Authorities believed differently at the time of the fatal encounter. Future evaluation will be in the hands of the appropriate authorities.

He clearly acted with reckless disregard for human life, he is a proven liar, his story from that night does not add up, and while there is not enough evidence for murder I think manslaughter is a slam dunk. I hope the jury has that option.

He clearly did NOT act with reckless disregard for human life.  He is NOT a proven liar. His story DOES add up. Neither murder 2nd nor manslaughter is likely as an outcome in this case.


He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong. He would be an idiot to testify since the biggest problem with his defense is him. Did you look at the website he put up before his lawyer made him take it down? To me that is all I need to know about Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-08 11:56:40 AM
LasersHurt:

There's also no evidence to support that he's an innocent man who was attacked and had to defend himself. It's just that he's the only one alive to tell his side.

Presumed innocent. But you didn't just forget that, you forgot the lacerations on the back of his head, the smashed in face, and the eyewitness testimony that "the guy in the red sweater" was getting pummeled, and the "guy doing the pummeling" was the one motionless on the ground after the altercation.

But yeah, other than those details, there's no evidence... Your response does make me wonder however, just what are YOU guilty of... I know you're guilty of something - using evidence, prove to me you did NOT rape a transexual truck stop hooker in 1994...
 
2013-07-08 11:57:34 AM

The Singing Bush: And she was totally a reliable witness. Speaker of the gospel, I tell ya.


Are you retarded, sir?
 
2013-07-08 11:57:45 AM

ELKAY: He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong


Citation needed
 
2013-07-08 11:58:42 AM

dittybopper: You haven't been paying attention to the actual evidence and testimony, have you?


Weighing facts and being objective?

Where the fark do you think you are, some place teeming with reasonable adults?
 
2013-07-08 11:59:18 AM

ChaosStar: ELKAY: He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong

Citation needed


Pretty hard to commit perjury when you've never actually been under oath.
 
2013-07-08 12:00:16 PM

Tatsuma: dittybopper: You haven't been paying attention to the actual evidence and testimony, have you?

Weighing facts and being objective?

Where the fark do you think you are, some place teeming with reasonable adults?


Touche'.
 
2013-07-08 12:00:18 PM

Radioactive Ass: Scerpes: She chose to bring charges via information rather than indictment.

And let's not forget that she (apparently intentionally seeing as she had it in her possession) excluded exculpatory evidence from that indictment when it was given to a judge to approve at the preliminary hearing before Zimmerman was arrested. Specifically Zimmerman's injury photographs.


There was no indictment.
 
2013-07-08 12:00:41 PM

Smackledorfer: ChaosStar: You somehow have it in your head that if GZ pulled his weapon in response to the lethal force used against him having him fearing for his life and the weapon misfired, Martin would be justified in killing GZ. This is false.

I was just going by what you claimed the law was, that nothing up until the last bit mattered.  You said that nothing mattered up until the concrete was used.  Except what we don't know, because somebody is dead and can't say, is whether or not they felt and could articulate a belief that they would be facing serious bodily harm if weren't giving the fight their all. My point is that it does.  I'm glad we agree now, that your earlier statement was incorrect.

ChaosStar: A trial is not an investigation, the investigation comes before the trial, If the investigation finds your claim of self defense to be true, you don't go to trial (you're not supposed to anyway). If they do, they recommend charges, charges are filed, the jury decides your guilt on those charges.

I really can't spell it out any clearer.

Is self-defense a defense at trial or not? Are trials decided by juries or not? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then juries do in fact make determinations on the justification of use of deadly force. The fact that there are pretrial decisions made by the prosecution and law enforcement do not eliminate that fact.

Amusingly enough you are arguing with me about this in a farking thread in which you believe that Zimmerman is not guilty because he was justified in shooting Treyvon because his head hit concrete.  So in this case, the investigators and prosecution decided that no, it was not self defense, and the defense is arguing that it is self-defense, and this may amaze the hell out of you, but the jury is going to decide who is right.

At this point you have to be trolling.


The prosecutor's are bound by an extra section of the Florida Rules of Professional Conduct to not bring charges if there is not probable cause.  Rule 4-3.8(a).  Too bad it's not the Crown Code for Prosecutor's which states that they cannot bring the charges if there is not a chance that the jury would convict.
 
2013-07-08 12:00:50 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: No, what's really on trial here is the ability for non-minorities to use the "Angry Black Man Syndrome" as an explanation for why they took some action against a black man.


It sounds more to me like some people are trying to use angry black man syndrome as a justifying factor when beating someone's head against concrete for daring to suspect that they don't live in a particular neighborhood.
 
2013-07-08 12:01:59 PM

heili skrimsli: ChaosStar: ELKAY: He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong

Citation needed

Pretty hard to commit perjury when you've never actually been under oath.


He lied in court about his financial situation when determining his bond.
 
2013-07-08 12:02:22 PM
Anyone else notice what the prosecution did there with the 911 call and feel it was intentional?

They stopped the call immediately after the 911 operator asked what race the suspect was, questioned the witness with some pointless banter for a minute or two, then as soon as they resumed the call it started with Zimmerman saying "black male".

I get the feel that was intentional to try to plant it in the jurors' minds that Zimmerman was making it a point to mention the suspect was black.
 
2013-07-08 12:02:31 PM
What the hell is the prosecution trying to prove here?
 
2013-07-08 12:02:51 PM

ELKAY: heili skrimsli: ChaosStar: ELKAY: He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong

Citation needed

Pretty hard to commit perjury when you've never actually been under oath.

He lied in court about his financial situation when determining his bond.


No...his wife did.
 
2013-07-08 12:03:02 PM

ELKAY: heili skrimsli: ChaosStar: ELKAY: He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong

Citation needed

Pretty hard to commit perjury when you've never actually been under oath.

He lied in court about his financial situation when determining his bond.


Yep..totally guilty of murder now!

You solved the case Sherlock!
 
2013-07-08 12:03:33 PM

ELKAY: The more you eat the more you fart: ELKAY: Scerpes: ELKAY: Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?

Perfectly.  But then I don't look in stranger's windows.

Where is the evidence that Trayvon was looking into stranger's windows? There's none. But that doesn't stop the pro-Zimmerman crowd from slandering a dead teenager.

Trayvon never got his day in court because a maniac neighborhood watch man decided to act as judge/ jury/ and executioner.

Thats part of the problem with being a thug..if someone kills you for attacking them, then you also lose the chance to testify in court.

Where is the evidence that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman? Are we watching different trials?

Zimmerman said he never followed Trayvon but security camera clearly shows Trayvon walking away and being followed. Zimmerman is a liar and a hothead.


Did I miss something? Where is this security camera video evidence that you state it shows Zimm following Martin? I must've missed something here.

Can anyone cite this for me as I don't remember seeing this or hearing about it?
 
2013-07-08 12:03:37 PM

gregscott: dittybopper: The Muthaship: I listened to the testimony on satellite radio as I drove to Chicago Friday.  Jesus, Dr, Bao is a moron!

Great Scott!

What??!!


You shut your whore mouth you farkin' imposter!
 
2013-07-08 12:03:39 PM

ELKAY: lantawa: ELKAY: jaybeezey: ELKAY: I really hope GZ doesn't get off. The last thing we need in this country is a bunch of a$$hole vigilante's thinking they now have a hunting license for black teenagers.

He clearly did not act as a reasonable or responsible person that night and deserves a manslaughter charge.

Right? Because it's such a prevalent attitude now. I'd hate for it to get bolstered.

Most everyone i know is just chomping at the bit to have his/her life turned inside out on national TV so they can smoke some kid.

Don't live in fear and hate and everything will be OK.

Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?

YES

Would you feel safe if a George Zimmerman wannabe lived in your neighborhood?

YES

I wouldn't. I think this man with past assault charges and domestic violence charges who has now killed a teenager under questionable circumstances should not be allowed to own a fire arm.

Authorities believed differently at the time of the fatal encounter. Future evaluation will be in the hands of the appropriate authorities.

He clearly acted with reckless disregard for human life, he is a proven liar, his story from that night does not add up, and while there is not enough evidence for murder I think manslaughter is a slam dunk. I hope the jury has that option.

He clearly did NOT act with reckless disregard for human life.  He is NOT a proven liar. His story DOES add up. Neither murder 2nd nor manslaughter is likely as an outcome in this case.

He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong. He would be an idiot to testify since the biggest problem with his defense is him. Did you look at the website he put up before his lawyer made him take it down? To me that is all I need to know about Zimmerman.




First of all your a very angry person. Seek help. If you think Zimmerman is guilty watch his police statement. When the cop tried to bluff that someone recorded the shooting Zimmerman actually said thank goodness. Not a guilty mans actions.
 
2013-07-08 12:04:42 PM
Bunch of creepy ass crackers in this thread. Plus, racism!
 
2013-07-08 12:04:45 PM

ELKAY: Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?


Now, with people gunning for him? Not so much. Previously, sure.

ELKAY: Would you feel safe if a George Zimmerman wannabe lived in your neighborhood?


There are probably some in your neighborhood. Do you feel less safe, now?

ELKAY: Where is the evidence


...that anything George has said about the events of that night being anything but true?
 
2013-07-08 12:05:16 PM

ELKAY: heili skrimsli: ChaosStar: ELKAY: He is a liar. He commited perjury and parts of his story of what happened that night have been proven wrong

Citation needed

Pretty hard to commit perjury when you've never actually been under oath.

He lied in court about his financial situation when determining his bond.


Liar.

His wife made misleading statements.
George never lied or said anything.
The prosecution said that George had an obligation to tell them which is what they whined about.
George never did have that obligation.

Do try to keep up with the facts rather than the lies
 
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