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(WPTV)   Will the prosecution cry "Uncle" after GZ's uncle's testimony? Will the judge rule that the defense can't present a defense because it might cause the jury to decide "not guilty"? Will these Zimmerman trial threads ever end? Not today   (wptv.com) divider line 1158
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman, prosecutors, uncles, jury  
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5206 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 9:36 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 11:32:28 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: The more you eat the more you fart: I think one thing is damn clear at this point: Trayvon wasnt the innocent little angel his parents and media tried to pretend he was....in fact quite the opposite..he was a little thug on his way to being a bigger thug.

Also, trayvon used racial epithets just like GZ did...bit i guess thats pointless.

What racial epithet did GZ use?  As far as I've heard, only TM used one.


Yeah, I was going to ask this exact same thing. And TM used more than one racial term.
 
2013-07-08 11:32:40 AM
They'll think that anyway.

We don't need almost evidence-free high profile cases going "guilty" just because of feelings. The system in this country is way too stacked against defense as it is.
 
2013-07-08 11:32:46 AM

neversubmit: White people haven't rioted since the 20's.


I can think of a couple in the 1940s, although a few of them depend on whether you consider union riots to be primarily white-people riots.

\Zoot Suit riots.
\\Ironically, that would have been white people against Zimmerman's folks.
 
2013-07-08 11:33:24 AM
cdn.c.photoshelter.com
 
2013-07-08 11:33:31 AM
Why is everyone talking about buying clothes for George Zimmerman? Doesn't he get free clothes from his Men's Wearhouse stores?
 
2013-07-08 11:33:42 AM
I'll admit, it's still funny to me that Zimmerman shops at Men's Wearhouse.

/shrug
 
2013-07-08 11:34:01 AM

Tatsuma: Actually as far as we know, Zimmerman didn't use racial epithets.


"These" "They" C'mon, we all know what he meant! ;)
 
2013-07-08 11:35:08 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Because shooting the person who's punching your head into concrete makes you a vigilante..


Yes, that makes him a vigilante---because his head was being punched into the concrete. 

How did he end up in that situation in the first place?  Because he was a vigilante.  He was supposed to call the cops and then stay in his car playing Angry Birds; instead, he decided to act like a cop, go after and confront the kid and get into a fight with him.  That's a pretty clear-cut case of taking the law into your own hands.
 
2013-07-08 11:35:32 AM
I certainly hope this jury doesn't find Zimmerman guilty, as it might state a new precedent that gun owners in America should be careful and follow the letter of the law.
 
2013-07-08 11:35:34 AM

stellarossa: I agree; the uncle came across as extremely credible & inscrutable.


He was like a Latino Clint Eastwood character. Honorably Discharged marine, Law Enforcement officer, straight as an iron bar. A no-nonsense real man. And he was great, succinct and credibility beyond reproach. He made a fool out of the state when they even dared to question whether he'd lie for Zimmerman AND he knew that the voice on the tape was Zimmerman's without even knowing what the context of that 9-1-1 call from outside the room.

The two witnesses today are great too so far.

The more you eat the more you fart: I stand corrected.


No problems. So many idiots just screaming about how Zimmerman is a racist that it's easy to forget that there is no credible proof of that, while we do have proof that Martin used racist epithets.
 
2013-07-08 11:36:24 AM
It's been well established that Zimmerman is a farking loser, but the prosecution needs to do better.
 
2013-07-08 11:36:25 AM

stellarossa: I agree; the uncle came across as extremely credible & inscrutable.


The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude.
 
2013-07-08 11:36:32 AM

ChaosStar: You somehow have it in your head that if GZ pulled his weapon in response to the lethal force used against him having him fearing for his life and the weapon misfired, Martin would be justified in killing GZ. This is false.


I was just going by what you claimed the law was, that nothing up until the last bit mattered.  You said that nothing mattered up until the concrete was used.  Except what we don't know, because somebody is dead and can't say, is whether or not they felt and could articulate a belief that they would be facing serious bodily harm if weren't giving the fight their all. My point is that it does.  I'm glad we agree now, that your earlier statement was incorrect.

ChaosStar: A trial is not an investigation, the investigation comes before the trial, If the investigation finds your claim of self defense to be true, you don't go to trial (you're not supposed to anyway). If they do, they recommend charges, charges are filed, the jury decides your guilt on those charges.

I really can't spell it out any clearer.


Is self-defense a defense at trial or not? Are trials decided by juries or not? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then juries do in fact make determinations on the justification of use of deadly force. The fact that there are pretrial decisions made by the prosecution and law enforcement do not eliminate that fact.

Amusingly enough you are arguing with me about this in a farking thread in which you believe that Zimmerman is not guilty because he was justified in shooting Treyvon because his head hit concrete.  So in this case, the investigators and prosecution decided that no, it was not self defense, and the defense is arguing that it is self-defense, and this may amaze the hell out of you, but the jury is going to decide who is right.

At this point you have to be trolling.
 
2013-07-08 11:36:42 AM
Xcott

...instead, he decided to act like a cop, go after and confront the kid and get into a fight with him.

There's nothing to suggest Zimmerman confronted Martin. Martin's friend Jeantel said Martin confronted him.
 
2013-07-08 11:37:11 AM
fark the prosecution is hitting out of the park with their character witnesses.

The uncle, the sweet and honest old lady, and now a farking 'Nam vet.
 
2013-07-08 11:37:13 AM
I too would like to know the relevance of a Nam' vet sleeping, eating, showering, and sharing bunks with his fellow soldiers, this is a farking circus.
 
2013-07-08 11:37:27 AM
For those out there still think Zimmerman is angry bigot hunting black young men heres a question.
If you beleave the states case is so solid why wouldn't a grand jury indite him?
 
2013-07-08 11:37:50 AM
This whole case has given me an idea for my next screenplay.

It's called "Yahoo with a Gun." It will be about a neighborhood watch volunteer who breaks up a drug ring, bumbling his way through the entire farcical story.

Think "Paul Blart," but darker.
 
2013-07-08 11:38:17 AM

ELKAY: I really hope GZ doesn't get off. The last thing we need in this country is a bunch of a$$hole vigilante's thinking they now have a hunting license for black teenagers.

He clearly did not act as a reasonable or responsible person that night and deserves a manslaughter charge.


Right? Because it's such a prevalent attitude now. I'd hate for it to get bolstered.

Most everyone i know is just chomping at the bit to have his/her life turned inside out on national TV so they can smoke some kid.

Don't live in fear and hate and everything will be OK.
 
2013-07-08 11:39:32 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: For those out there still think Zimmerman is angry bigot hunting black young men heres a question.
If you beleave the states case is so solid why wouldn't a grand jury indite him?


The grand jury never got the chance.  The State Attorney was planning on presenting the case to the grand jury before the governor stepped in and appointed a special prosecutor.  She chose to bring charges via information rather than indictment.
 
2013-07-08 11:40:00 AM
IF simmerman actually takes the stand I call "legal malpractice" by his attorneys. I think the guy is guilty as hell and should spend 20 years in jail, but professionally my analysis is that the Defense has "reasonable doubt" in the bag right now, and putting Zimm on is a huge mistake. It will allow all sorts of currently excluded testimony in, and the only thing it can do is hurt his case.
 
2013-07-08 11:40:06 AM

Smackledorfer: ChaosStar: No, most of the time I was fighting in a bar because it was my job to eject them and they decided to take the matter physical.

Oh boy! Its ITG time everybody!

ChaosStar: You're confusing consensual activity with illegal attacks, you said it yourself "play fights".

No, I'm not.  I pointed out that even in a play fight things can get dangerous quickly, which makes your claim that real fights and illegal assaults can so easily be prevented from spilling into the realm of serious bodily harm (yea that guy was beating the shiat out of me, but I didn't bump into any concrete so it's cool) was absolutely ridiculous.


You seem to be projecting.
You asked where I was fighting, I chose to ignore the rhetorical condescension of the question and answer you. Where you get ITG from I don't know, but I do know you're just using it as a backhanded insult since you can't make any traction with your position.

I never claimed that fights or assaults can be easily prevented from spilling into the realm of serious bodily harm. Please quote where I did.
I said that by using the concrete, that elevates it to lethal force.
It would have been lethal force if Martin had continued to punch Z in the face.
It would have been lethal force if Martin had gotten Z's gun.
Ergo don't try to beat your fighting opponent to death with blunt force trauma, or try to get their gun, and you won't get shot.

It would not be lethal force if you or your buddy wanged your head on a beam or smacked the concrete during one of your "play" sessions. This is dangerous, yes, I never said it wasn't, but I'm not sure what point you're attempting to make here.
 
2013-07-08 11:40:20 AM

doczoidberg: This whole case has given me an idea for my next screenplay.

It's called "Yahoo with a Gun." It will be about a neighborhood watch volunteer who breaks up a drug ring, bumbling his way through the entire farcical story.

Think "Paul Blart," but darker.



www.overallsite.com
 
2013-07-08 11:40:29 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: For those out there still think Zimmerman is angry bigot hunting black young men heres a question.
If you beleave the states case is so solid why wouldn't a grand jury indite him?


Believing that first sentence you said doesn't actually imply believing the second one.
 
2013-07-08 11:41:04 AM

Cletus C.: What a load of carp. Zimmerman was "led" by Martin. He was stalking him. That is creepy.


1) Zimmerman was following Martin, making no attempt to be stealthy, also making no attempt to confront him; just observe him until the authorities arrived.

2) Martin knew Zimmerman was following him. Martin chose where to go. Martin chose to lead Zimmerman into the dark back-alley where the confrontation and altercation took place,. rather than let Zimmerman know where he was going. (Where to send the po-po.). Zimmerman followed.

You can't change the facts.
 
2013-07-08 11:41:26 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: For those out there still think Zimmerman is angry bigot hunting black young men heres a question.
If you beleave the states case is so solid why wouldn't a grand jury indite him?


They believe it because of racism obviously.  The Sanford police department, the FBI, all racist for not charging Zimmerman.  Let's not take into account that Zimmerman tried to get two white cops fired for beating a black man and went on a year-long crusade to get justice for him.  Oh, and those cops were on the investigation team for this case and STILL didn't want to bring charges against Zimmerman.

That or they're retards.
 
2013-07-08 11:41:30 AM
Yeah there is just no way Zimmerman is going on the stand, why would he? He already has it in the bag, and wins nothing from going on the stand and could lose everything if the prosecution trips him up over bullshiat.
 
2013-07-08 11:41:37 AM

doczoidberg: This whole case has given me an idea for my next screenplay.

It's called "Yahoo with a Gun." It will be about a neighborhood watch volunteer who breaks up a drug ring, bumbling his way through the entire farcical story.

Think "Paul Blart," but darker.


You need a sidekick.
 
2013-07-08 11:41:56 AM

Jake Havechek: It's been well established that Zimmerman is a farking loser, but the prosecution needs to do better.


Has it been? How so?
 
2013-07-08 11:42:20 AM

Xcott: How did he end up in that situation in the first place? Because he was a vigilante. He was supposed to call the cops and then stay in his car playing Angry Birds; instead, he decided to act like a cop, go after and confront the kid and get into a fight with him. That's a pretty clear-cut case of taking the law into your own hands.


How dare he act like he had the legal right to walk around his own neighborhood and observe and report on the suspicious behavior of someone who looked out of place and was exhibiting odd behavior for the weather conditions!
 
2013-07-08 11:42:29 AM

limeyfellow: What I yet to see though is why stand your ground laws don't apply to Trayvon Martin.



uhhhh, because Trayvon isn't on trial?

He is also dead.
 
2013-07-08 11:42:40 AM

Facetious_Speciest: Xcott

...instead, he decided to act like a cop, go after and confront the kid and get into a fight with him.

There's nothing to suggest Zimmerman confronted Martin. Martin's friend Jeantel said Martin confronted him.


Well that WAS inconvenient of her to say that...
 
2013-07-08 11:42:58 AM

Tatsuma: He already has it in the bag


I see what you did there.
 
2013-07-08 11:43:34 AM

jaybeezey: ELKAY: I really hope GZ doesn't get off. The last thing we need in this country is a bunch of a$$hole vigilante's thinking they now have a hunting license for black teenagers.

He clearly did not act as a reasonable or responsible person that night and deserves a manslaughter charge.

Right? Because it's such a prevalent attitude now. I'd hate for it to get bolstered.

Most everyone i know is just chomping at the bit to have his/her life turned inside out on national TV so they can smoke some kid.

Don't live in fear and hate and everything will be OK.


Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?

Would you feel safe if a George Zimmerman wannabe lived in your neighborhood?

I wouldn't. I think this man with past assault charges and domestic violence charges who has now killed a teenager under questionable circumstances should not be allowed to own a fire arm.

He clearly acted with reckless disregard for human life, he is a proven liar, his story from that night does not add up, and while there is not enough evidence for murder I think manslaughter is a slam dunk. I hope the jury has that option.
 
2013-07-08 11:43:53 AM
Defense when the judge talks, "Yes ma'am."
Prosecution when the judge talks, "_______".
 
2013-07-08 11:44:02 AM

Tatsuma: Yeah there is just no way Zimmerman is going on the stand, why would he? He already has it in the bag, and wins nothing from going on the stand and could lose everything if the prosecution trips him up over bullshiat.


Agreed.  There is no reason for him to testify.
 
2013-07-08 11:44:03 AM
 Cletus C.: What a load of carp. Zimmerman was "led" by Martin. He was stalking him. That is creepy.

No, he was following him to give the police the description of activities.  Most people do not
do their " stalk and kill " while on the phone with the cops.

Just think about that.  I know there are some  dumb convicts out there, but it really takes a prize ribbon to do your malice while you are on the phone with the po po.


If you want creepy, how about gesturing and circling someone in a car.
 
2013-07-08 11:44:12 AM
neversubmit:
White people haven't rioted since the 20's.

Haven't seen the OWS in Oakland, have you?
 
2013-07-08 11:44:15 AM
I really hope this bit with the current witness is going somewhere useful. It's been a long time, but I'm sure he doesn't really want to talk about being a combat medic during the Tet Offensive.

Get it to him talking about how peoples' voices change under stress, and how he's familiar with it. Geez.
 
2013-07-08 11:44:18 AM

The Muthaship: nekom: The whole situation just sucks for all involved

Agreed.


Nah George will get rich
 
2013-07-08 11:45:41 AM

limeyfellow: What I yet to see though is why stand your ground laws don't apply to Trayvon Martin.


Self defense cannot be invoked during the commission of a felony (aggravated assault)
 
2013-07-08 11:46:29 AM

ELKAY: Would you feels safe if George Zimmerman lived in your neighborhood?


Perfectly.  But then I don't look in stranger's windows.
 
2013-07-08 11:46:40 AM
The cognitive dissonance in these Zimmerman threads is astounding.

If Zimmerman didn't want to be put into a position where he'd have to use deadly force to protect himself from an attack, then he shouldn't have been investigating a suspicious person in his neighborhood while armed.  And if a woman didn't want to be put into a position where she'd be raped, then she should not be walking around sketchy areas while wearing skimpy clothing.  Right?
 
2013-07-08 11:46:49 AM

Hobodeluxe: Nah George will get rich


How much money would he have to make from this in order for you to want to trade places with him?

And where will this money come from?
 
2013-07-08 11:46:56 AM
HAMMERTOE:

Haven't you ever seen an "uplifting" news report, or movie or story where the citizens of a rough neighborhood "take back" their streets from the thugs/ prostitutes/ gang-bangers/ hoods? At some point in every one of these offerings, there is an early climactic moment where a confrontation occurs. Usually multiple confrontations. Early in the story, the confrontation goes in favor of the antagonist(s) of the story. And, the "turning point" involves the confrontation going in favor of the people trying to "take back their streets." Well, this is no different. This country is built upon the foundational principle that we as citizens, bear the personal right (and responsibility) of seeing to the protection of our selves, our neighbors, and our neighborhoods.


As a black kid in the 70s and 80s, the movies I remember were about the young black kid who was out trying to do the right thing. The turning point in those movies is when the kid gets killed by people who believe themselves to be authorities because the he fit the description. (See: "Cornbread, Earl and Me"). In these movies, the black underclass, finally tired of being the victims of criminals and the police, rise up and defend themselves against the police state in the ghettos of America. Well, this is no different. No longer will black people accept that we all should be treated like criminals because there are black people who commit crimes. The original issue here was that the initial decision not to charge George Zimmerman based on his own recounting of the events leading to the death of a 17 year old seemed to be out of line with how police normally treat these cases. Now, the issue for myself is how ready many non-minorities are to let a man go free based on the criminal behavior of OTHER black people. The defense seems to be saying, "well, there have been break-ins by black people, so any person would be well within their rights to approach and questionany black person at any time to determine wether they "belong" there. Sadly, the people advocating this criminal treatment of citizens by other citizens cannot imagine a scenerio where THEY are asked if they belong. I'm sure they would be as accepting if they went to an inner city and they were followed and questioned by a resident.

What's really on trial here is the continued viability of using "Angry Black Man Syndrome" as a mitigating factor in anti-social behavior. Zimmerman observed Martin coming out of a neighbor's back yard, dressed in clothing which obscured him enough to prevent positive identification, so he followed Martin, and summoned the authorities. Nowhere here is antisocial behavior displayed. Martin, on the other hand, led Zimmerman into a secluded area, where the confrontation and altercation took place. Martin was not only taller than Zimmerman, he was also a football player. One does not become a football player by displaying traits tending towards passivity. The testimony of Martin's "friend" clearly demonstrates the antisocial, racist mindset of his clique.</i>

No, what's really on trial here is the ability for non-minorities to use the "Angry Black Man Syndrome" as an explanation for why they took some action against a black man. Even at 17 years old, they're so scary and blood thirsty that following one of them on a dark and rainy night with a gun, first in a vehicle and then on foot (a totally innocent action), will get you killed. So, starting an altercation with a black man which results in his death is totally justifiable because common knowledge suggests that even an unarmed black kid who was going about his business will kill you, if given a chance. Hey blacks, don't forget to keep your hood off in the rain, unless you want to be mistaken for an intruder. Smh.
 
2013-07-08 11:46:56 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: The more you eat the more you fart: I think one thing is damn clear at this point: Trayvon wasnt the innocent little angel his parents and media tried to pretend he was....in fact quite the opposite..he was a little thug on his way to being a bigger thug.

Also, trayvon used racial epithets just like GZ did...bit i guess thats pointless.

What racial epithet did GZ use?  As far as I've heard, only TM used one.


I think J4T is arguing that when he said something like "these guys get away all the time" the "these guys" description is racist.
 
2013-07-08 11:47:00 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The judge didn't grant the defense motion to throw out the case, so Zimmerman must be guilty. That's what Team Trayvon has been rolling with on Facebook and other sites. Never mind the fact that judges never grant a motion to dismiss after hearing half the case.


It does happen, but not very often.

It absolutely never happens in high profile cases wrapped in politics.  This one was going to a jury the day a special prosecutor was appointed.
 
2013-07-08 11:47:12 AM

Radioactive Ass: LasersHurt: There's also no evidence to support that he's an innocent man who was attacked and had to defend himself. It's just that he's the only one alive to tell his side.

Well aside from Good's and W#8's testimony that is.


Neither of which saw the start of the fight or actual blows landing or see which one was screaming
 
2013-07-08 11:47:26 AM

Xcott: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Because shooting the person who's punching your head into concrete makes you a vigilante..

Yes, that makes him a vigilante---because his head was being punched into the concrete.

How did he end up in that situation in the first place?  Because he was a vigilante.  He was supposed to call the cops and then stay in his car playing Angry Birds; instead, he decided to act like a cop, go after and confront the kid and get into a fight with him.  That's a pretty clear-cut case of taking the law into your own hands.


Looking to see where someone went is "law enforcement" to you?  Do you even know what a vigilante is?  I guess cops hope there's a lot of vigilantes out there considering how often they ask the public to look for suspects, and even keep an eye on them if possible.  Do you have any evidence that George approached Treyvon?  Because the whole fight took place about 50 feet from George's truck, and over 2 minutes later.  How do you explain that distance?  Does Treyvon walk that slowly, or did George stay in the same area, and Treyvon returned later, approaching George.
 
2013-07-08 11:47:33 AM

HAMMERTOE: Cletus C.: What a load of carp. Zimmerman was "led" by Martin. He was stalking him. That is creepy.

1) Zimmerman was following Martin, making no attempt to be stealthy, also making no attempt to confront him; just observe him until the authorities arrived.

2) Martin knew Zimmerman was following him. Martin chose where to go. Martin chose to lead Zimmerman into the dark back-alley where the confrontation and altercation took place,. rather than let Zimmerman know where he was going. (Where to send the po-po.). Zimmerman followed.

You can't change the facts.




It's very clear Martin wasn't just walking home. A ten minute trip was taking 30+ minutes. That being said he wasn't scared or worried over the " cracker" following him. He wanted to teach him a lesson for dissing him.
 
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