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(WPTV)   Will the prosecution cry "Uncle" after GZ's uncle's testimony? Will the judge rule that the defense can't present a defense because it might cause the jury to decide "not guilty"? Will these Zimmerman trial threads ever end? Not today   (wptv.com) divider line 1158
    More: Followup, George Zimmerman, prosecutors, uncles, jury  
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5208 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Jul 2013 at 9:36 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-08 10:39:48 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: ChaosStar: You're purposely being obtuse, because your stance has nothing solid to stand on.
Following Martin doesn't justify lethal force, if the concrete was used, that's lethal force. What touched it off, if following is threatening, neither matter.

Yes because obviously just before the fight occurred Martin was thinking to himself "That concrete is going to kill this cracker ass fool"

Fights do and happen, but just because they escalate to specific levels does not absolve you of your responsibilities for being in that fight.


Now you resort to condescension because you have no position.
Yes, fights do happen, but when one person moves the fight from assault and/or battery to attempted murder, responsibilities for being in that fight have no bearing on the ensuing defense of life.
 
2013-07-08 10:40:29 AM
Dont personalize him, full names, unless it is the victim then it is Trayvon
 
2013-07-08 10:40:34 AM

jaybeezey: Your assumption is specious at best. Almost 2 years have past since Mr. Horner shot and killed 2 men robbing his next door neighbor in Pasadena, TX. That one didn't even go to trial even though the minority communties were up in arms. Both men were hispanic, both may have been "undocumented aliens".


The only reason Mr. Horner didn't go to trail is because a responding officer testified to the Grand Jury that he saw Mr. Horner shoot only after the individuals advanced on him.
 
2013-07-08 10:41:19 AM
WillofJ2

Dont personalize him, full names, unless it is the victim then it is Trayvon

A lot of this. Wow.
 
2013-07-08 10:42:42 AM
those actually paying attention, how much time is left on this trial? ending this week?
 
2013-07-08 10:43:11 AM
So Zimmerman was a real human being, with good friends.  Not in fact a raging lunatic who can't get out a sentence without half a dozen racial slurs.  Why so many character witnesses when the technical aspects of this case so heavily favor the defense?
 
2013-07-08 10:43:20 AM

LasersHurt: The Muthaship: But, there's no evidence to support that conclusion.

There's also no evidence to support that he's an innocent man who was attacked and had to defend himself. It's just that he's the only one alive to tell his side.


After a week in these threads one would think you would have realized burden of proof is on the prosecution. I know... you hate the legal system for that fact (as you stated last thread).
 
2013-07-08 10:43:29 AM

Facetious_Speciest: WillofJ2

Dont personalize him, full names, unless it is the victim then it is Trayvon

A lot of this. Wow.


Hell even using the word 'victim' is biased because it carries with it the implication that there was a crime.

Speaking of, 'crime scene' was a pretty common phrase used by the prosecution when Serino was on the stand.
 
2013-07-08 10:43:33 AM

Headso: those actually paying attention, how much time is left on this trial? ending this week?


I heard there's a chance the jury gets it Thursday.
 
2013-07-08 10:44:31 AM

WillofJ2: Dont personalize him, full names, unless it is the victim then it is widdle twayvy wayvy


FTFY
 
2013-07-08 10:44:35 AM

Elegy: So did we go red? If we did, I like it - only the hardcore trial watchers will be left in the thread.

[i.imgur.com image 300x208]

[i.imgur.com image 300x409]

The best one, that fark won't let me post inline because 403 forbidden.


He could be one of the old hitmen from the "hitman" movie based of the video game, like the breaking bad pic
 
2013-07-08 10:45:45 AM

Headso: those actually paying attention, how much time is left on this trial? ending this week?


O'Mara said 3-5 days for the defense, so ending this week or early next.
 
2013-07-08 10:45:47 AM

nekom: So Zimmerman was a real human being, with good friends.  Not in fact a raging lunatic who can't get out a sentence without half a dozen racial slurs.  Why so many character witnesses when the technical aspects of this case so heavily favor the defense?


Judge is pro-prosecution so defense needs to work extra hard to make sure his character is properly portrayed.
 
2013-07-08 10:46:05 AM
One thing I have NOT been able to find:  Is Vegas taking action on this?  Can't seem to find anywhere giving odds on the outcome.
 
2013-07-08 10:46:28 AM

heili skrimsli: Facetious_Speciest: WillofJ2

Dont personalize him, full names, unless it is the victim then it is Trayvon

A lot of this. Wow.

Hell even using the word 'victim' is biased because it carries with it the implication that there was a crime.

Speaking of, 'crime scene' was a pretty common phrase used by the prosecution when Serino was on the stand.


I havent really payed too much attention to the terminology used by the lawyers when that hit me, looking back there may have been a lot of subliminal warfare going on,
 
2013-07-08 10:46:29 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: Because we are getting in legalese territory which always requires things being added. And I did answer the question, no he was not defending himself to the physical level the event elevated to.


It is a little known fact that a women being raped has to try to rape the man raping her back and has to wait for the man raping her to escalate the level of violence by hitting her before she can hit him.
 
2013-07-08 10:46:29 AM

Headso: those actually paying attention, how much time is left on this trial? ending this week?


The defense has said Thursday, maybe Friday but there is no guarantee on that.
 
2013-07-08 10:47:03 AM
After watching OJ, Casey Anthony, and now this, I am guessing the very best defense attorneys are exponentially better lawyers than even the best of prosecutors.
 
2013-07-08 10:47:14 AM

nekom: So Zimmerman was a real human being, with good friends.  Not in fact a raging lunatic who can't get out a sentence without half a dozen racial slurs.  Why so many character witnesses when the technical aspects of this case so heavily favor the defense?


I don't know man. This witness is really white. I'm starting to smell a conspiracy.
 
2013-07-08 10:47:56 AM

ChaosStar: Yes, fights do happen, but when one person moves the fight from assault and/or battery to attempted murder, responsibilities for being in that fight have no bearing on the ensuing defense of life.


Never been in a fight have you?

Things escalate quickly, but just because they do...that does not absolve you of your responsibility of putting yourself there to begin with.
 
2013-07-08 10:48:19 AM
Is Martin's stepmother testifying for the defense? They deposed her, for some reason. She told Anderson Cooper she's pissed about being dealt out of the limelight after she did most of the raising of the kid.
 
2013-07-08 10:48:32 AM
Waiting for the prosecutor to tear in to this little old white church lady, in front of a jury 5/6s the same
 
2013-07-08 10:48:44 AM

nekom: One thing I have NOT been able to find:  Is Vegas taking action on this?  Can't seem to find anywhere giving odds on the outcome.


you have to use offshore for those kind of bets.
 
2013-07-08 10:49:17 AM

Giltric: It is a little known fact that a women being raped has to try to rape the man raping her back and has to wait for the man raping her to escalate the level of violence by hitting her before she can hit him.


You said rape four times, each rape negates the other one so we're at net zero for rape

rape
 
2013-07-08 10:49:59 AM

Cletus C.: Is Martin's stepmother testifying for the defense? They deposed her, for some reason. She told Anderson Cooper she's pissed about being dealt out of the limelight after she did most of the raising of the kid.





I wouldn't want the world to know that.
 
2013-07-08 10:50:27 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: ChaosStar: No, we're really not. There is no legalese.
So you don't think GZ had his head smacked into the concrete?

Perhaps, but then again he did follow Tray and put himself into that situation.

We'll never really know what touched it off, but one could reasonably argue that someone following you at night could be construed as threatening.


He stopped following Trayvon therefore he broke off the confrontation as an aggressor. Trayvon doubled back and went after Zimmemrman after Trayvon went all the way home thus initiating Trayvons role as an aggressor.

This has been verified through witness testimony.


This is why it is not self defense if you stop fighting to go get a gun and shoot the person you are fighting.
 
2013-07-08 10:50:38 AM
Projection isn't just a river in Egypt.

Everyone in these threads seems to have already fixed on their idea of what has happened, and will reject any data to the contrary as "bias" or "emotion" or "reverse double racism" or whatever.

I'm out.
 
2013-07-08 10:51:31 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: ChaosStar: Yes, fights do happen, but when one person moves the fight from assault and/or battery to attempted murder, responsibilities for being in that fight have no bearing on the ensuing defense of life.

Never been in a fight have you?

Things escalate quickly, but just because they do...that does not absolve you of your responsibility of putting yourself there to begin with.


I've been in multiple fights, key word there: fights.
I have only once been part of an attempted murder, which is what a fight becomes when someone uses lethal force during the fight.
Escalating it to that level does, in fact, absolve you of your legal responsibilities for being in the fight, hence the Use of Force by Aggressor statute.
 
2013-07-08 10:51:35 AM

Cletus C.: Is Martin's stepmother testifying for the defense? They deposed her, for some reason. She told Anderson Cooper she's pissed about being dealt out of the limelight after she did most of the raising of the kid.


She had implied in many interviews that his mother was not around and did not have much to do with him for the better part of the last 12 years of his life except for special events, to the point when he did stay with the bio mom if he got sick or anything he came right back to her house, who knows if it is true she may be mad about not getting any money off of this, also said that when crumps PR people came in she and other got cut out to create a united front for the press, same reason you dont see the fathers current G/f
 
2013-07-08 10:52:41 AM
Remember:

Trayvon Martin:
nazirahantigua.typepad.com

George Zimmerman:
img1.etsystatic.com
 
2013-07-08 10:52:42 AM
Prosecutor making sure these peoples names are being repeated clearly and loudly?
 
2013-07-08 10:52:49 AM

nekom: Mr. Eugenides:
Remember, the prosecution showed that Martin initiated the physical confrontation.

Well, it's more that they couldn't prove that Zimmerman did.  Martin PROBABLY did, we'll never know for sure, but there's certainly copious amounts of reasonable doubt, which means advantage: defense.


Nope, Martin's girlfriend testified that Martin turned back to confront Zimmerman.  There has been zero evidence presented to suggest that Zimmerman initiated the physical approach.
 
2013-07-08 10:53:36 AM
 
2013-07-08 10:54:26 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: Never been in a fight have you?

Things escalate quickly, but just because they do...that does not absolve you of your responsibility of putting yourself there to begin with.


Walking behind someone is not illegal. You are trying to say that a person who has every right to be where they are is responsible for what happens to them while they are doing nothing illegal. This is like saying that a mugging victim is to blame for being somewhere where he might get mugged or a rape victim being to blame for wearing a low cut blouse. That is patently not the case and there are several cases to back that up. The mugger is always at fault and so is the rapist. How people like you don't seem to get that boggles the mind.
 
2013-07-08 10:54:45 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: ChaosStar: Yes, fights do happen, but when one person moves the fight from assault and/or battery to attempted murder, responsibilities for being in that fight have no bearing on the ensuing defense of life.

Never been in a fight have you?

Things escalate quickly, but just because they do...that does not absolve you of your responsibility of putting yourself there to begin with.


You seem to believe that under florida law, a precursor to self defense is not putting oneself in a position of possible trauma/fighting. Youd be wrong on this fact, yet you believe it.
 
2013-07-08 10:55:29 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: Things escalate quickly, but just because they do...that does not absolve you of your responsibility of putting yourself there to begin with.


Ah yes, she deserved to be raped because she walked down that dark alley...
 
2013-07-08 10:56:01 AM
Is that Spicoli's mom?  She just doesn't know.
 
2013-07-08 10:56:05 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: that does not absolve you of your responsibility of putting yourself there to begin with


Yet in a court of law, it very often does. I guess that means you are wrong.
 
2013-07-08 10:56:57 AM

Mr. Eugenides: nekom: Mr. Eugenides:
Remember, the prosecution showed that Martin initiated the physical confrontation.

Well, it's more that they couldn't prove that Zimmerman did.  Martin PROBABLY did, we'll never know for sure, but there's certainly copious amounts of reasonable doubt, which means advantage: defense.

Nope, Martin's girlfriend testified that Martin turned back to confront Zimmerman.  There has been zero evidence presented to suggest that Zimmerman initiated the physical approach.


I still think that if I were on a jury trying Martin for assault, I would have to acquit for lack of evidence.  Just as I would in this trial.  The few witnesses we do have (excepting John Good) are clearly biased.  I SUSPECT Martin started it, but I'm not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
2013-07-08 10:57:09 AM

Click Click D'oh: IdBeCrazyIf: Things escalate quickly, but just because they do...that does not absolve you of your responsibility of putting yourself there to begin with.

Ah yes, she deserved to be raped because she walked down that dark alley...


The kids at Kent State shouldn't have been protesting........then the NG would never have shot them.
 
2013-07-08 10:57:19 AM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Cletus C.: Is Martin's stepmother testifying for the defense? They deposed her, for some reason. She told Anderson Cooper she's pissed about being dealt out of the limelight after she did most of the raising of the kid.

I wouldn't want the world to know that.


If I was on the jury I'd wonder why Trayvon's loving dad and future stepmother were either right down the block or returning home while this happened and never bothered to find out at all where he was when he should've been there and there were cops all over the neighborhood.

Just assuming he went to the movies? Not noticing that there were police all over the place and a coroner on the scene for two hours? What?
 
2013-07-08 10:57:23 AM
binaryapi.ap.org
Sums up how prosecutors feel about most of their witnesses
 
2013-07-08 10:57:30 AM
WillofJ2

Is there a person that does not get the rationale of having a bullet in the chamber?

Even the twits whargarbling about it understand the rational. They're the same folks that disagree with lawful carry in the first place and are simply trying to use logical fallacies to drum up emotion..
 
2013-07-08 10:58:31 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: ChaosStar: So you don't think he was defending himself?

He brazenly put himself in that situation which lead to the death of a person.through culpable negligence

Manslaughter


Only if you think that it was reasonably forseeable that walking up to someone and asking them what they are up to would result in having your nose broken and your head bashed against a sidewalk.
 
2013-07-08 10:59:02 AM

OnlyM3: WillofJ2

Is there a person that does not get the rationale of having a bullet in the chamber?
Even the twits whargarbling about it understand the rational. They're the same folks that disagree with lawful carry in the first place and are simply trying to use logical fallacies to drum up emotion..


I dont carry or own, but if I did it would seem that would be the only way would want to, but sometimes logic gets in my way
 
2013-07-08 11:00:06 AM
Can we get some updates about the testimony for those of us that can't listen to the testimony at work instead of the needle endlessly skipping on the record player?
 
2013-07-08 11:00:16 AM

Elegy: So did we go red? If we did, I like it - only the hardcore trial watchers will be left in the thread.

[i.imgur.com image 300x208]

[i.imgur.com image 300x409]

The best one, that fark won't let me post inline because 403 forbidden.


Did you see the barcode tattoo on the back of his head?

I hope he wears a red tie on closing arguments.
 
2013-07-08 11:00:24 AM

MyRandomName: You seem to believe that under florida law, a precursor to self defense is not putting oneself in a position of possible trauma/fighting. Youd be wrong on this fact, yet you believe it.


negligently putting yourself in a situation makes you responsible for the outcome of that situation

Click Click D'oh: Ah yes, she deserved to be raped because she walked down that dark alley...


She was so damn sexy

ChaosStar: I've been in multiple fights, key word there: fights.
I have only once been part of an attempted murder, which is what a fight becomes when someone uses lethal force during the fight.
Escalating it to that level does, in fact, absolve you of your legal responsibilities for being in the fight, hence the Use of Force by Aggressor statute.


On technicality a fist is a lethal object

Stop being a abject obtuse moron

Giltric: He stopped following Trayvon therefore he broke off the confrontation as an aggressor. Trayvon doubled back and went after Zimmemrman after Trayvon went all the way home thus initiating Trayvons role as an aggressor.


Possible aggressor, we'll honestly never know. I've just been arguing from the point that the prosecution were idiots for attaching murder 2 when it could have been much easier for a manslaughter charge.

I personally feel that Zimmerman bears some responsibility for trying to play pretend cop that night, even if he was attacked his ass shouldn't have been out there playing cops and robbers.
 
2013-07-08 11:01:07 AM

limeyfellow: AeAe: nekom: LasersHurt:
Neither way is good, if you ask me. And you didn't. But I told you anyway.

No outcome is good.  A couple of knuckleheads collided and a young man died.  It's not murder, but it is a sad situation for all involved.

not murder.  manslaughter.

What I yet to see though is why stand your ground laws don't apply to Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman admitted to following the guy in a car for a number of blocks, then when he sees an appropiate time he jumps out and goes after the kid with no sort of announcement of intent, he enters the personal space of Trayvon Martin to confront himself. If Martin had been older and shot Zimmerman and survive the case would have been thrown out as self defense, especially with the phone calls that Zimmerman made that he is after the kid.

Isn't that what stand your ground laws are about. If you fear for your life you have the right to fight back with all weapons at your disposal?


None of what Zimmerman did constitutes a need for self defense. Being followed or asking someone a question (which is what Zimmerman did) did not give Martin the right or legal option to assualt Zimmerman. Especially if you take into account that Martin may have looped back around to confront Zimmerman, the idea that Zimmerman was stalking the kid doesn't meat the muster of "fearing for his life."

Now if Zimmerman was beating the kid within an inch of his life with a baton, or slamming his head into a light pole or (in this case concrete) and Martin shot Zimmerman, he could claim self defense. As the evidence is presented here, however, Martin confronted Zimmerman, a fight broke out, and martin was slamming Zimmermans head into the concrete. That is self defense.
 
2013-07-08 11:01:09 AM
The Muthaship

We're currently going through people who know Zimmerman testifying it's him yelling for help on the 911 calls.
 
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