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(Taunton Gazette)   Massachusetts politicians want toll booths on every major road into the state   (tauntongazette.com) divider line 117
    More: PSA, Massachusetts, Massachusetts Turnpike, Massachusetts Department of Transportation, toll roads, highways  
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5421 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2013 at 1:45 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-07 10:59:23 AM
They gotta pay for the roads somehow.  It's currently gas taxes in most places that feed money into the maintenance projects, but with the advent of electric cars, they're going to need a new way to support our aging infrastructure.
 
2013-07-07 11:23:03 AM
Sure why not. And some traffic cameras, and a few TSA agents with Ball Park fingers. *just in case*
 
2013-07-07 11:26:53 AM
So basically border stops at state borders. I can see conspiracy theorists having a good time with this one.
 
2013-07-07 11:42:41 AM
Who do they think they are, New Jersey?
 
2013-07-07 01:49:58 PM
Excuse me while I relocate my family's remains from the cemetery there to a more hospitable state that won't extort money from me just go visit them.
 
2013-07-07 01:50:08 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-07 01:50:18 PM
What it means is politicians are planning on spending more money and it has to come from somewhere.
 
2013-07-07 01:50:53 PM
I read the headline as "Massachusetts Politicians Want TROLL booths...."
 
2013-07-07 01:51:15 PM
Can't they just pay some of us lowlifes to leave?
 
2013-07-07 01:53:08 PM

leevis: What it means is politicians are planning on spending more money and it has to come from somewhere.


Have a flat tire?  Fark you pay me
Crushed by a DUI driver?  Fark you pay me
Didn't drive today?  Fark you pay me
 
2013-07-07 01:53:24 PM
This is pretty much what the constitution's commerce clause is about - Another handful of words that have shaped the country as much as any of the amendments.
 
2013-07-07 01:54:34 PM

Dust: They gotta pay for the roads somehow.  It's currently gas taxes in most places that feed money into the maintenance projects, but with the advent of electric cars, they're going to need a new way to support our aging infrastructure.


Right, I'm sure there's just SO MANY electric cars being used in Massachusetts that gas purchases have gone to near zero.
 
2013-07-07 01:55:00 PM
Good?

Massachusetts infrastructure is in dire need of repairs after a decade of neglect (IE tax cuts that amounted to an average of $125/person/yr).  Now it's going to be even more expensive to fix.  Luckily interest rates are low, but to secure bonds they're going to show better revenue projections.

I know plenty of people living in Providence and NH and commute to Boston every day.  Time to move closer, or pay for all that use.

There's always public transportation.
 
2013-07-07 01:55:03 PM
Fine... The point of toll roads is that they are maintained with little, if any, tax dollars, and the toll pays for the road.

Farm 'em, they want to pull this shiat, then let those non-toll roads that they are changing not get any Federal money. If they want to be exclusionist assholes, then let them have their major source of road income disappear...
 
2013-07-07 01:55:50 PM

Dust: They gotta pay for the roads somehow.  It's currently gas taxes in most places that feed money into the maintenance projects, but with the advent of electric cars, they're going to need a new way to support our aging infrastructure.


It's done in such a way that it specifically impacts inter-state travel, though.  I'm guessing there's also a protectionist element to this, making it more costly to ship goods in from other states.  There was a thing several years ago where one state (either Idaho or Iowa, I forget) tried to ban those semis with a folding point in the middle becuase of the effect their weight had on the roads.  The Supreme Court found that a ban like that was an impermissable barrier to interstate travel and commerce.  This is arguably less intrusive than that ban, but it still amounts to forcing a fee in order to enter or leave the state, so it's likely not going to fly.
 
2013-07-07 01:56:09 PM

WorldCitizen: So basically border stops at state borders. I can see conspiracy theorists having a good time with this one.


states-righters, too - on the pro side.
 
2013-07-07 01:58:18 PM

Smeggy Smurf: leevis: What it means is politicians are planning on spending more money and it has to come from somewhere.

Have a flat tire?  Fark you pay me
Crushed by a DUI driver?  Fark you pay me
Didn't drive today?  Fark you pay me


Works pretty well for NH!

States always get theirs.  The only difference is the way they go about getting it.

In NH it's toll roads, fees up the ass, and a state monopoly on liquor.  Live free or die indeed!  It also helps that most of the lesser populated areas of NH don't look like those of western MA.  Barely any roads or infrastructure to take care of.  If Western MA wants all it's nice roads and relative good connections to civilization, we gotta find a ways to pay for it.
 
2013-07-07 01:58:24 PM
I'm sure that all tolls will be spent responsibly on aging infrastructure and not just blown on poorly thought out projects.

/ how's that "big dig" working out?
 
2013-07-07 01:58:29 PM

TyrantII: Good?

Massachusetts infrastructure is in dire need of repairs after a decade of neglect (IE tax cuts that amounted to an average of $125/person/yr).  Now it's going to be even more expensive to fix.  Luckily interest rates are low, but to secure bonds they're going to show better revenue projections.

I know plenty of people living in Providence and NH and commute to Boston every day.  Time to move closer, or pay for all that use.

There's always public transportation.


Public transportation which, by the way, got saddled with the bulk of the debt for a ginormous road improvement project.
 
2013-07-07 01:58:34 PM

Dust: They gotta pay for the roads somehow.  It's currently gas taxes in most places that feed money into the maintenance projects, but with the advent of electric cars, they're going to need a new way to support our aging infrastructure.


Do roads get built without being paid for? The roads are already paid for but the government figures they can recoup losses by LEASING toll rights to a private company in exchange for a cut of the loot.

In essence, we the taxpayers are paying twice and some privately owned company (usually) is making a profit off it.
 
2013-07-07 01:58:49 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Can't they just pay some of us lowlifes to leave?


I think this is geared towards keeping them out.
 
2013-07-07 02:00:34 PM
This is the crap you get when the federal government starts cutting back funding.  Look for this to spread.
 
2013-07-07 02:00:40 PM

gunsmack: I'm sure that all tolls will be spent responsibly on aging infrastructure and not just blown on poorly thought out projects.

/ how's that "big dig" working out?


The Big Dig absolutely transformed the city in a positive way.  The outcome is something for any large public works project to aspire to.  How they financed it (and controlled it) blows.
 
2013-07-07 02:00:47 PM
I-70 and I-35 are partially toll in Kansas, until they are paid for. It is accepted that they will never be paid for.
The 18th street expressway was the same deal, until I-635 was built and drivers abandoned 18th street. Suddenly, 18th street bonds were retired.
 
2013-07-07 02:01:08 PM
Fine with me.  I live on the NH border and know enough backroads into the state that skipping the RT 3 booths would be no trouble at all.  Love that sweet sweet tax free beer.
 
2013-07-07 02:03:53 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Dust: They gotta pay for the roads somehow.  It's currently gas taxes in most places that feed money into the maintenance projects, but with the advent of electric cars, they're going to need a new way to support our aging infrastructure.

Right, I'm sure there's just SO MANY electric cars being used in Massachusetts that gas purchases have gone to near zero.


Path of least resistance.  Raising the gas tax is considered political suicide, and their plan to raise it a measly 3 cents is kind of ridiculous.

It hasn't been raised since 1991, and since it's pegged to gallons and not inflation or price, revenue growth is regressive unless consumption increases year over year.
 
2013-07-07 02:05:42 PM

soze: gunsmack: I'm sure that all tolls will be spent responsibly on aging infrastructure and not just blown on poorly thought out projects.

/ how's that "big dig" working out?

The Big Dig absolutely transformed the city in a positive way.  The outcome is something for any large public works project to aspire to.  How they financed it (and controlled it) blows.


I was referring more to the 100% cost overrun, subsequent collapse with a fatality.
 
2013-07-07 02:05:51 PM
I seem to remember, a few years ago, that the Feds actually paid Connecticut to remove the tolls on I95 and the Meritt Parkway.
The rationale was that stopping everyone at a toll booth was dangerous, caused traffic congestion, and led to significantly increased gas consumption.
I wonder what has changed (or is it just politicians being asinine, as usual).
 
2013-07-07 02:08:42 PM

Dear Jerk: I-70 and I-35 are partially toll in Kansas, until they are paid for. It is accepted that they will never be paid for.


The Massachusetts Turnpike has technically already been paid for, so it should be toll free. But then the State keeps issuing bonds for the Turnpike, so they still owe money for that road and that's how they justify keeping the tolls up.
 
2013-07-07 02:09:23 PM

headlly: Fine with me.  I live on the NH border and know enough backroads into the state that skipping the RT 3 booths would be no trouble at all.  Love that sweet sweet tax free beer.


The bulk priced monopoly liquor is even better.  I wish MA would tell the middle men distrubtors of this state to take a hike and monopolize their our liquor as well.

Cheaper prices for us, shiatton of revenue for the state.  NH, amusingly enough, proves that capitalism isn't always the answer to efficiency and price.
 
2013-07-07 02:10:59 PM
No hero tag?
If you can afford a car, you can afford to pay a little bit to use it on the road.
 
2013-07-07 02:11:32 PM

Dear Jerk: I-70 and I-35 are partially toll in Kansas, until they are paid for. It is accepted that they will never be paid for.


Good news:  I-80 through Ohio was paid for with tolls in the late 60s.

Bad news:  It's still a toll road.

Good news:  Our Governor declined the opportunity to sell it to a private interest.

Bad news:  The Frogurt contains...
 
2013-07-07 02:11:49 PM

SilentStrider: Who do they think they are, New Jersey?


Nah, you don't have to pay to get INTO New Jersey. Just to get out.
 
2013-07-07 02:12:47 PM
I remember hearing the RI had to get rid of some of it's toll booths because all the possible routes were being tolled which isn't legal
 
2013-07-07 02:12:49 PM

Tillmaster: I seem to remember, a few years ago, that the Feds actually paid Connecticut to remove the tolls on I95 and the Meritt Parkway.
The rationale was that stopping everyone at a toll booth was dangerous, caused traffic congestion, and led to significantly increased gas consumption.
I wonder what has changed (or is it just politicians being asinine, as usual).


There's always at speed tolling.

There will always be some slippage, but people who regularly travel into and out of the state still need to play game.  Getting your car impounded on a workday ain't fun.
 
2013-07-07 02:14:02 PM
But ...  But ... CASINOS!!
 
2013-07-07 02:15:12 PM

gunsmack: soze: gunsmack: I'm sure that all tolls will be spent responsibly on aging infrastructure and not just blown on poorly thought out projects.

/ how's that "big dig" working out?

The Big Dig absolutely transformed the city in a positive way.  The outcome is something for any large public works project to aspire to.  How they financed it (and controlled it) blows.

I was referring more to the 100% cost overrun, subsequent collapse with a fatality.


From a project management perspective, it's very difficult to cost estimate projects that have never been done before so I get the reason for *some*, though not *all*, of the overrun.  The actual waste is quite irritating from a governance perspective, and it's costing us big time in the ability to expand our T lines as was originally proposed.  The Green Line expansion out to Somerville is starting this year though, so that should be really cool.

If I recall, the fatality wasn't a collapse; it was a concrete panel dropping because of an adhesive failure on its boltings.  Yes, quite bad, but not exactly a tunnel collapse.
 
2013-07-07 02:19:30 PM

Ambivalence: Dust: They gotta pay for the roads somehow.  It's currently gas taxes in most places that feed money into the maintenance projects, but with the advent of electric cars, they're going to need a new way to support our aging infrastructure.

Do roads get built without being paid for? The roads are already paid for but the government figures they can recoup losses by LEASING toll rights to a private company in exchange for a cut of the loot.

In essence, we the taxpayers are paying twice and some privately owned company (usually) is making a profit off it.


Plus delays, slowdowns, the overhead of a toll booth vs. The simplicity of another form of tax.

This is the worst combination of government and capitalism.
 
2013-07-07 02:19:49 PM
More like "obvious" tag the way this state is run...

/still love MA but come the fark on politicians...
 
2013-07-07 02:24:18 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Can't they just pay some of us lowlifes to leave?


Please don't come to Florida. I am sure you're a very nice lowlife and all but we have enough already.
 
2013-07-07 02:24:19 PM

Smeggy Smurf: leevis: What it means is politicians are planning on spending more money and it has to come from somewhere.

Have a flat tire?  Fark you pay me
Crushed by a DUI driver?  Fark you pay me
Didn't drive today?  Fark you pay me


You're a funny guy.
 
2013-07-07 02:26:45 PM

soze: gunsmack: I'm sure that all tolls will be spent responsibly on aging infrastructure and not just blown on poorly thought out projects.

/ how's that "big dig" working out?

The Big Dig absolutely transformed the city in a positive way.  The outcome is something for any large public works project to aspire to.  How they financed it (and controlled it) blows.


Yea, don't forget to not skimp on the bolts though.
 
2013-07-07 02:27:06 PM
soze:

If I recall, the fatality wasn't a collapse; it was a concrete panel dropping because of an adhesive failure on its boltings.  Yes, quite bad, but not exactly a tunnel collapse.

Which was caused by improper and improperly spec'd materials used by a private contractor.

Sometimes "lowest bid" ends up being much more costly to taxpayers because corners are cut.  Cronyism laws should be sufficient.  No need to tie the hands of infrastructure projects into using contracts who underbid to win a job, then find any ways to keep costs down when it's painfully obvious they can't.
 
2013-07-07 02:27:09 PM
I would rather them open casinos in and around Boston to pay for the roads.
 
2013-07-07 02:28:18 PM

SDRR: soze: gunsmack: I'm sure that all tolls will be spent responsibly on aging infrastructure and not just blown on poorly thought out projects.

/ how's that "big dig" working out?

The Big Dig absolutely transformed the city in a positive way.  The outcome is something for any large public works project to aspire to.  How they financed it (and controlled it) blows.

Yea, don't forget to not skimp on the bolts though.


Would have never happened if the contractor used self-sealing stem bolts...
 
2013-07-07 02:32:47 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: No hero tag?
If you can afford a car, you can afford to pay a little bit to use it on the road.


You are the epitome of a dumbass. The tag on the back of the car, the fee paid for the drivers license, the occasional F.U. tax for using the road (i.e. a ticket of some sort, usually accompanied by some serious farking attitude from one of our Boys in Blue), and the embedded gasoline taxes paid at the pump are what we already pay to use our awesome, nationwide PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM (Thank you Pres. Eisenhower).

What, you don't own a car, so you don't feel you should pay those taxes? You don't, so get over it already.
 
2013-07-07 02:33:20 PM
fine then stay out of Connecticut you giant pile of mass-holes!  *state troopers now to arrest all Massachusetts drivers in CT**also New Jersey just because*
 
2013-07-07 02:34:31 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Dust: They gotta pay for the roads somehow.  It's currently gas taxes in most places that feed money into the maintenance projects, but with the advent of electric cars, they're going to need a new way to support our aging infrastructure.

Right, I'm sure there's just SO MANY electric cars being used in Massachusetts that gas purchases have gone to near zero.


"going to need"

As in, trending in that direction. Or should we just let roads fall apart proportionately to the advance of hybrids and electric cars just because?
 
2013-07-07 02:35:36 PM
Well, of course with Republicans having successfully rigged, er, gerrymandered so many of the state/House elections in their favor in so many states, of they want to be able to do the same to the Senate. Gerrymander the state for Republican state house wins. Get the laws changed back for that state house to appoint Senators. Modern Republican reactionaries able to drag the US back into the 1800s. Win!
 
2013-07-07 02:36:34 PM
Well, crap. Wrong thread. Fark really needs a post-edit function to cover my stupidity!
 
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