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(Boulder Daily Camera)   Man training to be an Ironman says a motorist suffering from road rage nearly made him a 6-million dollar man   (dailycamera.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, Boulder County, Iron Man, double-yellow line, motorists, first pass  
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10206 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2013 at 8:09 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-07 01:45:35 PM  
If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close!

Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race.  He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.
 
2013-07-07 01:59:42 PM  
Bicycles being moving vehicles, subject to the same laws as motor vehicles in most states in the U.S., and having been hit 9 times in 3 years, 4 in my current neighborhood, once ending up on the hood of a guys car for 2 blocks (and when he figured it out, stopped fast, knocking me off, then told me that he didn't need to give me insurance info because I appeared fine, and the police took 3 hours to get there)- I find this funny. Not just because I've been hit twice by people on bicycles, including once last month as some hipster woman ignored a stop sign and ran over my right foot (witnesses screamed and screamed at her to stop), but because the guy seems like a huge cry baby, douchebag.

If you're on a moving vehicle you should operate your vehicle defensively, not aggressively, which is how this fellow was riding his bike. The assumption that someone *has* to look out for you doesn't even apply to pedestrians (even if it IS the law, reality stands).

I walk, so I risk getting hit by morons. Someone in my neighborhood was killed three blocks from me: a pedestrian, hit and run, but they caught the guy a day later (go go HPD slackers). He took the same risk willing me. We walk defensively. We'll jump out of the way. We're subject to road rage from drivers- they pull over, threaten us, chase us, run over us.

This guy was being a dick, maybe he'll be more aware next time.
 
2013-07-07 02:20:30 PM  

Carth: After he hits forty it is just about over for him:


I know. I'm just saying that there is no way that anyone at 40 is in better shape than at 20. It's just so much delusional BS.

liam76: Try taking your own advice. Or maybe show up to some non pro endurance races.


Why? I'm 41. I'd be dead in the first kilometer.

liam76: It has been downhill for a number of things since 30. But I am still putting up faster times in races (if I actively train) than I used to.


There we go. That wasn't so hard was it? So, are you going to give some money to SENS? I think aging is a program, a disease, and if we have enough knowledge it'll be controlled like diabetes.
 
2013-07-07 02:20:48 PM  

kokomo61: foo monkey: What do you use for GPS that gives such accurate results?

Garmin Edge 305 - since upgraded to an Edge 500. Sample data image below:

Like other GPS's, it's only accurate to within a few feet....but it DOES show speed, altitude, cadence, heart rate (and does averages, max, etc.) It showed my entire route up to that point, including all intersections, and how much time I stopped, etc. owed my location at that intersection, stopped for nearly a full minute, as well as the approach, where I coasted, stopped pedaling, slowed and stopped, with my HR falling the whole time.  You can get a watch-based GPS for a little over $100. A bike mounted one for 2X that or so. The only other thing I wish I had on a bike commute would be a GoPro Hero.


Bit fancier than Strava on my iPhone.
 
2013-07-07 02:41:40 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: There we go. That wasn't so hard was it?


No.  And I never had a problem with that sentiment, nor did anything I said counter it.

But when you say dumb things like this,

Quantum Apostrophe: I'm just saying that there is no way that anyone at 40 is in better shape than at 20


you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
 
2013-07-07 02:54:11 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Carth: After he hits forty it is just about over for him:

I know. I'm just saying that there is no way that anyone at 40 is in better shape than at 20. It's just so much delusional BS.



What if you are morbidly obese at age 20 and then take up a sport at a later age? I was in terrible shape in my teens and 20s but I probably qualify as an athlete now. My boyfriend runs a lot faster in his 30's than he did in high school running sports because he had terrible coaching back then. Just because someone is younger doesn't make them in better shape or a better athlete.

The main limiting factor is that people who train to their peak performance throughout their development can lose a bit of speed as they age or they can just tear up their body with the sport and gradually lose performance due to injuries. To generalize beyond that is just not correct.
 
2013-07-07 02:59:18 PM  

blacksho89: WRXminion: I lived in boulder for seven years most of which was up a mountain pass that cyclist really liked to ride. Most were fine, but like drivers, some were idiots. I nearly hit at least 20 cyclists, and the occasional skate boarder, when they flew around blind corners in the on coming traffic lane. The most annoying cyclists are the ones who ride in large groups and then get mad when you pass them. Or the ones who are not in good enough shape to ride the mountain they are exhausted, not paying attention, and are weaving back and forth with every pedal push.

The laws in boulder are wired when it comes to cyclist and cars. Bikes are supposed to ride as far to the right as they can, cars are to give three feet when passing, this makes it technically illegal to pass a bike on double yellow one lane roads. Bikes are also considered vehicles and have to abide by all traffic laws, and dismount on sidewalks. This means impeding the flow of traffic is a ticketable offence, but I've never seen a ticket given to a cyclist for this.

If both cyclists and cars abide by the general rules of the road and are courteous to each other things would be fine. Instead cyclist kick and whip chains at cars, and drivers run cyclist off the road. It's a fight the cyclist won't win. I would rather be alive then right.. The saying I lived by in boulder as a cyclist and pedestrian. I had friend get hit two times while riding a bike in boulder, both times he thought he was in the right but it ended up being his fault. He is a big guy and broke his collarbone and totaled a metro in one of the wreaks.

CRS 42-4-1005(d) allows  passing a bicyclist moving the same direction and in the same lane when such movement can be made in safety and without interfering with, impeding, or endangering other traffic lawfully using the highway.


You familiar with bill 148 which passed in 2009?? Must have three feet to pass.

Also the whole "without interfering with, impeding, or endangering other traffic lawfully using the highway" means you can't break a law: cross a double yellow, speed, or drive recklessly to pass a ciclist.
 
2013-07-07 02:59:59 PM  

whfolsom4: If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close!

Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race.  He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.




This is such a moronic talking point. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists also drive a motor vehicles, and pay registration fees and gasoline taxes. You might be an upstanding citizen, but many motorists fail to obey traffic laws, and even drive drunk. When your fellow motorists break traffic laws and drive drunk they can quite easily kill you! But you are worried about sharing the road with a 170 pound rider on a twenty four pound bicycle?
 
2013-07-07 03:04:06 PM  

TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.


If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.


IIRC TFA said that the driver passed and and then changed into their lane immediately before the sudden, hard deceleration.
 
2013-07-07 03:05:10 PM  
Look, I realize everyone wants to be an Ironman, but seriously, if you're getting in the way of motorists while you're training for it, it's clearly your fault.  You should never be studying advanced physics in traffic, it's just irresponsible.
 
2013-07-07 03:05:33 PM  
Ned Overend, Tinker Juarez go 1-2 on Mount Washington as Marti Shea defends 2010 crown

A pair of 50-somethings - Ned Overend and Tinker Juarez - went one-two on Saturday at the 39th Mount Washington Auto Road Bicycle Hillclimb in Pinkham Notch, New Hampshire.

Overend, who was celebrating his 56th birthday, pulled away less than two miles into the 7.6-mile ascent and rode to the victory in 55 minutes and three seconds.

Juarez, 50, took the runner-up spot just over a minute later with Timothy Ahearn third at 3:19.

"It's good to win," said Overend as he cooled off at the summit. "I wanted to win, and I wouldn't travel this far for it if I didn't think I had a chance. Comparing past times with the others, I figured I should be the favorite, but I'm not getting any younger!"

It was the second consecutive runner-up finish for Juarez, who finished second to Nico Toutenhoofd in 2010.


These guys are outliers, but they are a demonstration about what happens when you speak in sweeping generalities.
 
2013-07-07 03:11:48 PM  

BunkyBrewman: astro716: TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.


If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

3/10.  I got halfway through typing a response.

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

Yes, I believe the guy in the car most likely had road rage but from the cyclist's own story, he was passed before they started going downhill which means he was going substantially below the speed limit. (unless these guys can pedal 45mph up a hill outside Boulder)

/glad the guy wasn't hurt too bad
//and I don't have any reason not to believe the cyclist's story but he is going to have to prove he wasn't following too close (although the motorist is going to be cited for leaving the scene of an accident)
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)


Why is it not possible that the vehicle was speeding when he passed? Not saying that the cyclists were going the full 45, but getting passed is hardly proof of going "too slow".
 
2013-07-07 03:15:01 PM  

Carth: Fark_Guy_Rob: Mostly unrelated story - but early last year I was training for a 10k run.  I was out for a run, down a road I hadn't been on before - it was really crowded though (busy city here) and I couldn't run on the sidewalk.  But there was a bicycle lane that was being *very lightly* used.

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.

Cyclists are constantly riding with cars.  Cyclists are smaller and slower, and they constantly complain about how a**hole drivers don't give them space or treat them like they belong.  Seeing that I was slower than them, and without a bicycle, I expected that they would be understanding.  That they would give me plenty of space, and wait until it was safe to pass me.  Sure, I can't run as fast as a cyclist, but a cyclist can't cycle as fast as car.  If they expect cars to slow down and go their speed until they can safely pass - certainly, they wouldn't begrudge doing the same to me.  Right?

Apparently, I was wrong.  Yay for double standards!

In most areas cyclists have a legal right to the road and are allowed to 'take the lane; as necessary.

Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'


The one "slowing down to their speed until they could safely pass" in that scenario should have been you with respect to the other pedestrians on the sidewalk.
 
2013-07-07 03:20:14 PM  

WinoRhino: Publikwerks: I'm no fan of road rage assholes, but to be fair, Mr Ironman didn't hit the car. He misjudged if he could get around the car, had to stop too fast, and flipped over the handlebars.  He was operating his bike too fast then. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, then you are going too fast.

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

You know, that's actually a pretty good point. He did say his first choice was to try to get around the car. I'm not defending the motorist, but it's a valid argument.


It's just the same thing that I see everytiem a car encounters something that is way too slow way too soon. They swerve to the shoulder to prevent impact is they might not be able to stop in time. It's an emergency maneuver. Being forced to consider doing so is in no way proof that the cyclist did anything wrong. Sounds more like a "swoop and squat" on the drivers behalf-it's the same tactic people use to commit insurance fraud. It's simple, just blow by your victim, enter their lane as close to them as you can, and then hit the breaks hard. Who here thinks they are immune to this?
 
2013-07-07 03:20:54 PM  
Yeea, it's THIS thread again.
 
2013-07-07 03:22:38 PM  
I've had a whiskey bottle chucked at me while cycling, among other things, and that was on a road with 8' paved shoulders on both sides, specifically to give cyclists several feet from high-speed traffic.  Something of that mass traveling 30MPH could be fatal, but I'm sure the Good Ol' Boy who threw it never considered that.  I've had motorcyclists yell at me as they pass; you'd think they would be more understanding.

Using the roads is like some vehicular food chain:  the drivers hate the motorcyclists, both hate the bicyclists, all three hate the joggers, and everyone hates the gaggle of women wammering it up on the sidewalk, oblivious to all but their gossip.
 
2013-07-07 03:26:53 PM  

Repo Man: whfolsom4: If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close!

Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race.  He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

This is such a moronic talking point. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists also drive a motor vehicles, and pay registration fees and gasoline taxes. You might be an upstanding citizen, but many motorists fail to obey traffic laws, and even drive drunk. When your fellow motorists break traffic laws and drive drunk they can quite easily kill you! But you are worried about sharing the road with a 170 pound rider on a twenty four pound bicycle?


It's actually not a talking point.  I drive past bike lanes and bike-related signage every day.  I know which one of us paid for it, and it wasn't the guy on the bike.  And since a family member almost hit a cyclist riding on a 2-lane highway after dark, without lights or reflectors, yeah, it worries me.
 
2013-07-07 03:29:02 PM  

Chaghatai: WinoRhino: Publikwerks: I'm no fan of road rage assholes, but to be fair, Mr Ironman didn't hit the car. He misjudged if he could get around the car, had to stop too fast, and flipped over the handlebars.  He was operating his bike too fast then. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, then you are going too fast.

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

You know, that's actually a pretty good point. He did say his first choice was to try to get around the car. I'm not defending the motorist, but it's a valid argument.

It's just the same thing that I see everytiem a car encounters something that is way too slow way too soon. They swerve to the shoulder to prevent impact is they might not be able to stop in time. It's an emergency maneuver. Being forced to consider doing so is in no way proof that the cyclist did anything wrong. Sounds more like a "swoop and squat" on the drivers behalf-it's the same tactic people use to commit insurance fraud. It's simple, just blow by your victim, enter their lane as close to them as you can, and then hit the breaks hard. Who here thinks they are immune to this?




Well, he'd just finished that bottle off, what else was he supposed to do with it? Can't leave it in the cab, that's for sure!
 
2013-07-07 03:33:27 PM  

kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]


Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.
 
2013-07-07 03:37:18 PM  

whfolsom4: Repo Man: whfolsom4: If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close!

Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race.  He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

This is such a moronic talking point. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists also drive a motor vehicles, and pay registration fees and gasoline taxes. You might be an upstanding citizen, but many motorists fail to obey traffic laws, and even drive drunk. When your fellow motorists break traffic laws and drive drunk they can quite easily kill you! But you are worried about sharing the road with a 170 pound rider on a twenty four pound bicycle?

It's actually not a talking point.  I drive past bike lanes and bike-related signage every day.  I know which one of us paid for it, and it wasn't the guy on the bike.  And since a family member almost hit a cyclist riding on a 2-lane highway after dark, without lights or reflectors, yeah, it worries me.


There is no way that you could know this, unless you know the person personally, and know their income. For all you know, that person has a collection of cars at home. As for your family member's close call, while it would be upsetting to hit a cyclist while driving a car, it would likely be lethal for the cyclist. Under the described circumstances, there is almost no way the motorist would get in trouble for the accident, unless they were drunk or driving recklessly.
 
2013-07-07 03:38:35 PM  

mbillips: Carth: BunkyBrewman:

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

The bike at the same speed takes longer, definitely. Bike brakes suck. Cars weigh a lot more, but they have giant disc brakes gripped hydraulically by ceramic plates, while bikes have itty bits of rubber hand-squeezed onto a tiny strip of often-damp tire rim.

/Have a permanent dent in my left thigh from where a car with old-fashioned door handles passed me and immediately turned right into a parking lot, in the rain, assuming I could stop.


Uhm, I got hydraulic disc brakes on my bike. Less to do with the brakes and more to do with the light frame (and your spandexed ass) not providing enough traction with the road. You skid.
 
2013-07-07 03:39:43 PM  

change1211: kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.


That is true, and one more reason that bicycles should not be on the sidewalk, or in the crosswalk. Those are for pedestrians.
 
2013-07-07 03:45:58 PM  

ReverendJynxed: mbillips: Carth: BunkyBrewman:

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

The bike at the same speed takes longer, definitely. Bike brakes suck. Cars weigh a lot more, but they have giant disc brakes gripped hydraulically by ceramic plates, while bikes have itty bits of rubber hand-squeezed onto a tiny strip of often-damp tire rim.

/Have a permanent dent in my left thigh from where a car with old-fashioned door handles passed me and immediately turned right into a parking lot, in the rain, assuming I could stop.

Uhm, I got hydraulic disc brakes on my bike. Less to do with the brakes and more to do with the light frame (and your spandexed ass) not providing enough traction with the road. You skid.


I think the real culprit (the main limiting factor in a bicycle's deceleration) is the tire's contact patch. At least when speaking of modern, quality bicycles with good brakes (caliper or disc) and aluminum rims. Cheap ass bicycles (known in the trades as CABs) have very poor quality caliper brakes, that when combined with the friction characteristics of their cheap ass chromed steel rims, make for very long stopping distances when dry, and even worse when wet.
 
2013-07-07 04:12:09 PM  
Fark_Guy_Rob:

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.
...
Apparently, I was wrong.  Yay for double standards!


Runner & cyclist here. So wait, you were running in the bike lane, in the DIRECTION of traffic? That's the problem. You should always run into oncoming traffic, so you can see the maniacal/drunk/raging/distracted person that is about to kill you. Bike lanes are perfect for this. And when you see a cyclist coming, you jump out of the lane and onto the border/sidewalk for the 3-4 strides it takes him to pass.

Seriously. I've run thousands of miles in bike lanes and never gotten anything but "good morning" from a cyclist. Have had lots of cars, and a few city buses, try to kill me, though.
 
2013-07-07 04:17:06 PM  
The Googles Do Nothing:

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem


I agree with this part, and I also make it a habit to stop, unclip, and tap the ground with one foot at every stop sign or light. I want to meet my grandkids and see them graduate high school, and I know that coasting through a stop sign is asking for a killin'.

However, I also habitually count the number of cars that coast through stop signs when there's no oncoming traffic, and it's pretty close to 100%. If someone sees me do that on my bike, they think the appropriate punishment is summary execution by any bystander with a motor vehicle. Yet we all see motorists do it every day, and nobody seems to even notice.
 
2013-07-07 04:23:54 PM  

elysive: What if you are morbidly obese at age 20 and then take up a sport at a later age?


You'd still be in worse shape than if you had been in shape at 20. Good on you for getting in better shape, but overall, being old sucks.
 
2013-07-07 04:25:42 PM  

verbivore: The Googles Do Nothing:

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I agree with this part, and I also make it a habit to stop, unclip, and tap the ground with one foot at every stop sign or light. I want to meet my grandkids and see them graduate high school, and I know that coasting through a stop sign is asking for a killin'.

However, I also habitually count the number of cars that coast through stop signs when there's no oncoming traffic, and it's pretty close to 100%. If someone sees me do that on my bike, they think the appropriate punishment is summary execution by any bystander with a motor vehicle. Yet we all see motorists do it every day, and nobody seems to even notice.




This has become so commonplace that this happens to me from time to time. I'm approaching a four way stop in my car, and another car is also. I arrive at the intersection before the other vehicle, and come to a full stop. Apparently, a full stop confuses the other motorist, who was expecting me to do a rolling stop. So they think I'm yielding the right of way to them!
 
2013-07-07 04:48:03 PM  

born_yesterday: The two lane road leaving my office has a recently added bike lane.  For about 4 blocks.  Then it abruptly ends at a crowded stoplight, and is followed by painted signs on the road of a bike and arrows, indicating the bike lane continues further ahead (it doesn't).


That sounds like you're describing the road signs that indicate "bikes may use the full lane" like in the below article/photo:
http://burke.patch.com/groups/alan-youngs-blog/p/bp--bicycling-burke -a nd-beyond-new-bicycles-may-use-f36fa442da2
 
2013-07-07 04:59:04 PM  

Meesterjojo: Bicycles being moving vehicles, subject to the same laws as motor vehicles in most states in the U.S., and having been hit 9 times in 3 years, 4 in my current neighborhood, once ending up on the hood of a guys car for 2 blocks (and when he figured it out, stopped fast, knocking me off, then told me that he didn't need to give me insurance info because I appeared fine, and the police took 3 hours to get there)- I find this funny. Not just because I've been hit twice by people on bicycles, including once last month as some hipster woman ignored a stop sign and ran over my right foot (witnesses screamed and screamed at her to stop), but because the guy seems like a huge cry baby, douchebag.

If you're on a moving vehicle you should operate your vehicle defensively, not aggressively, which is how this fellow was riding his bike. The assumption that someone *has* to look out for you doesn't even apply to pedestrians (even if it IS the law, reality stands)...


That's what my father always taught me.
The second piece of wisdom he taught me was that the best defense is a good offense.
 
2013-07-07 05:02:24 PM  

verbivore: born_yesterday: The two lane road leaving my office has a recently added bike lane.  For about 4 blocks.  Then it abruptly ends at a crowded stoplight, and is followed by painted signs on the road of a bike and arrows, indicating the bike lane continues further ahead (it doesn't).

That sounds like you're describing the road signs that indicate "bikes may use the full lane" like in the below article/photo:
http://burke.patch.com/groups/alan-youngs-blog/p/bp--bicycling-burke -a nd-beyond-new-bicycles-may-use-f36fa442da2


That's exactly what it is.  I had no idea that that is what it meant, and I bet most of the people around here don't know either.  I sure as hell wouldn't trust that sign as protection versus the idiots around here.
 
2013-07-07 05:11:50 PM  

kokomo61: foo monkey: What do you use for GPS that gives such accurate results?

Garmin Edge 305 - since upgraded to an Edge 500. Sample data image below:

[bombaydigital.com image 850x511]

Like other GPS's, it's only accurate to within a few feet....but it DOES show speed, altitude, cadence, heart rate (and does averages, max, etc.) It showed my entire route up to that point, including all intersections, and how much time I stopped, etc. owed my location at that intersection, stopped for nearly a full minute, as well as the approach, where I coasted, stopped pedaling, slowed and stopped, with my HR falling the whole time.  You can get a watch-based GPS for a little over $100. A bike mounted one for 2X that or so. The only other thing I wish I had on a bike commute would be a GoPro Hero.


I've used a Garmin ForeRunner 305 running watch to show the same type of data to the Austin metro bus company, to show where and when I had to jump off the street for the maniacal bus driver who decided to run me off the road, and where another (on the same route) tried to mow down a cyclist for coasting through a stop. I asked them to correlate it with their logs to verify that bus [number] was at [address] at [time] to verify that I wasn't making it up. I got the standard "your input is important to us, we strive for safety and excellence" form email back, but at the very least they know people have the data to check their homicidal nutjob drivers.
 
2013-07-07 05:15:00 PM  
I've never had any issues with bicycle riders. I do always try to keep more than proper distance between myself and motorcycle riders. It really doesn't matter much if they're driving like bats out of hell, or all around assholes. Sometimes a person has to watch out for the more simple minded on the road. It's just the right thing to do. Although my will was tested once when some older guy on a piece of trash motorcycle decided to drive right between myself and another car on a two lane interstate. My passenger ould have reached out and punched them off their trashy motorcycle. Here there are a lot of "Look twice and save a life" signs for motorcycles. Waste of taxpayer money, really, because they shouldn't feel entitled just because they make the mistake of driving an inferior mode of transportation where wrecking almost always means certain death. Not everyone watches out for the simpletons like I do.
 
2013-07-07 05:25:49 PM  
whfolsom4: [ ] they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

[snip]

It's actually not a talking point.  I drive past bike lanes and bike-related signage every day.  I know which one of us paid for it, and it wasn't the guy on the bike. And since a family member almost hit a cyclist riding on a 2-lane highway after dark, without lights or reflectors, yeah, it worries me.


ORLY?  I own two houses, two cars, and have a household income solidly in the top 5%. You think I don't pay TAXES??? Because I occasionally ride my bike to work, or ride through the hill country on a beautiful spring day? Because there's some sort of form that cyclists fill out that gives them a giant tax rebate? You really think this?
 
2013-07-07 05:29:59 PM  

Repo Man: change1211: kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.

That is true, and one more reason that bicycles should not be on the sidewalk, or in the crosswalk. Those are for pedestrians.


....unless you're talking about a MUP (Multi-Use Path) that's built for bikes, peds and other non-motorized use. The street level crossings are called crosswalks no matter who uses them. In Virginia, (where I live and was hit in a crosswalk), cars are required to yield to 'pedestrians' in a crosswalk. If a bike is using a crosswalk, they're treated as pedestrians, even when they don't dismount.

Prudence and Darwin dictate that you never just go into a crosswalk without looking both ways....which I did...and made sure that traffic was STOPPED in both directions before I moved ahead. I was stopped for 45 seconds waiting for traffic to stop and/or clear before entering the crosswalk.

I was riding on a bike path, not a sidewalk. The yahoo who hit me was either texting or just impatient, but instead of stopping, he decided to go into the parking spaces to get around the 2-3 stopped cars in front of him....and if he wasn't driving a Honda Civic (thank God for sloping hoods), I probably wouldn't be around to type this.
 
2013-07-07 05:46:47 PM  

kokomo61: Repo Man: change1211: kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.

That is true, and one more reason that bicycles should not be on the sidewalk, or in the crosswalk. Those are for pedestrians.

....unless you're talking about a MUP (Multi-Use Path) that's built for bikes, peds and other non-motorized use. The street level crossings are called crosswalks no matter who uses them. In Virginia, (where I live and was hit in a crosswalk), cars are required to yield to 'pedestrians' in a crosswalk. If a bike is using a crosswalk, they're treated as pedestrians, even when they don't dismount.

Prudence and Darwin dictate that you never just go into a crosswalk without looking both ways....which I did...and made sure that traffic was STOPPED in both directions ...




And yet another reason to avoid MUPs. Leave them for small children, pedestrians, runners, skaters.
 
2013-07-07 06:06:28 PM  

Ker_Thwap: I'd love to hear the other side of the story.

I like to imagine it went like this...

I was running late for work, going 5 mph over the speed limit.  As I go around a blind corner these three idiots dressed in spandex were peddling 3 wide across the entire lane.  I swerved, honked and had to swerve back for oncoming traffic.  As one of them flipped me the bird, he lost control and wiped out.  It was hilarious.


CSB, I would've laughed my ass off too. YDI, stupid bikers!

If the guys FTA were doing that, I would immediately stop feeling bad for the guy. There is ZERO excuse to be walking, biking, or doing anything else on the road not in single file.
 
2013-07-07 06:23:02 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: ggecko: [www.allfunnies.com image 400x400]

It should be illegal to make certain types of clothing in certain sizes.


All companies should be like Speedo and TYR are with racing swimsuits. The largest they come in (last I checked on Amazon) was a size 40, which is still pretty small.
 
2013-07-07 06:28:47 PM  

Repo Man: And yet another reason to avoid MUPs. Leave them for small children, pedestrians, runners, skaters.


...and cars, too, evidently.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-02/local/39698135_1_trail -u sers-police-car-vienna
 
2013-07-07 06:52:58 PM  
I'm 39.  I'm much stronger than I was at 20 in terms of my weight lifting ability.  I can't run short distances or sprints as fast as I could when I was on the high school track team, but I can run long races (10K+) whereas back then I'd be winded after a mile.   You can be better at things physically at 40 than at 20.  Not everything, but many things.
 
2013-07-07 06:59:03 PM  

The Googles Do Nothing: I'm 39.  I'm much stronger than I was at 20 in terms of my weight lifting ability.  I can't run short distances or sprints as fast as I could when I was on the high school track team, but I can run long races (10K+) whereas back then I'd be winded after a mile.   You can be better at things physically at 40 than at 20.  Not everything, but many things.


An individual might be in better shape at 40 than 20 but there is a reason you don't see people in their 40s setting world records. After your mid 30s your genetic potential starts to drop off. If you never reached your potential in your late 20s and early 30s your times might still go down but you'll never be as good as you could have been when you were younger.
 
2013-07-07 08:42:42 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: elysive: What if you are morbidly obese at age 20 and then take up a sport at a later age?

You'd still be in worse shape than if you had been in shape at 20. Good on you for getting in better shape, but overall, being old sucks.


I wasn't morbidly obese, but I was totally out of shape and what I said still stands. There's no rule that young people are always in good shape. Being in shape is something that one has to work at and it has no age limits. Older people tolerate pain due to endurance exercise better and often develop skills that make them perform better than their younger counterparts.

There are some performance variables that definitely decline with age (reaction time etc), but that's not what you said.  You just should have been more specific in your verbiage.
 
2013-07-07 09:16:22 PM  
yay, my bike story:  Riding down a main drag in a college town, going the speed limit(downhill), a car in the opposite lane thinks he can make it in front of me into a side street.  The one way side street that another car is coming out of, at the same time, so the illegally left turning car has to stop.  I hit the brakes a little as I see the turn start, then throw them on all the way as he stops in the street.  My front wheel hits the front tire and I lose contact with my bike and get a bird's eye view of a happy family as I pass over the hood of the car.  I remember the little kid start to wave as I go sailing past.

  The impact with the car didn't hurt.  The impact with the pavement after my little flying lesson was another story.  I'm on my back, regaining consciousness as I see the car pull back into now-stopped traffic and pull away.  Classic hit and run.  Permanently distended collarbone on the right side, which makes rehab fun and continued exercising ... interesting because what my right arm used to be able to do, I no longer can do.  I used to be able to throw a football on target the length of a football field.  Playing catch with the nieces and nephews is permanently out.  I will never be able to play catch with any children of my own.  The morphine drip was fun, though.

   Denver bicyclists, for the most part are insane to ride downtown.  I have a friend who rides to work, and he's been run off the road more times than I care to recall.  On the flipside, I've seen more red lights run by cyclists than I care to count.  If you choose not to heed the rules of the road, you deserve what happens, bike or car.  They are the rules of the road, and you are in/on the road.  T-boned because you didn't see the red light?  Get off the phone and look where you are going.  Run over and road rash covered because you didn't think a red light applied to you?  Wake up to reality.  Lost the settlement because you were in an argument with the wife while driving and didn't see the bicyclist? Pay up, jerk off.

/They never found the guy.
//also marks the last time I was on a bike
///nine years and counting
 
2013-07-08 01:38:35 AM  

The Googles Do Nothing: /When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.


Don't go so far to the right that you risk running off the road, into drain grates, or get forced off the road by people passing too close.  There's a such thing as riding too far right, and I get worried about folks who do that when I'm driving.  Particularly if they're riding too far over on a narrow roadway, thus encouraging motorists to cross the centerline into oncoming traffic.
 
2013-07-08 01:43:17 AM  

TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.


Sounds like he got cut off by the driver and the driver stopped hard intentionally.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

Sounds like you shouldn't be driving.  The posted speed is a maximum, not a minimum.  If you want minimum speed limits, only drive on roads with posted minimum speed limits.  If you don't want to deal with pedestrians, cyclists, farm implements and equestrians, stick to roads that ban those modes.  Otherwise, that's life, driver, DMV told you there'd be slow moving traffic when you got your license.  Deal with it or don't drive.  I don't need you making my job needlessly more dangerous with your anger issues and lack of time management skills.
 
2013-07-08 01:48:23 AM  

tccomp: Too bad we don't have the other side of the story. Could have stopped for a dog in the road and they were just following too close/tailgating.


Drivers don't flee after a collision unless they know they were in the wrong and think they'll get away with it.
 
2013-07-08 01:51:12 AM  

kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]


Those things aren't nearly loud enough for some cities, like Portland, Oregon.  Hell, the MAX horns, audible from two miles away when used on "high" mode, are  barely loud enough in that city.
 
2013-07-08 01:57:37 AM  

BunkyBrewman: This is the primary reason I rarely ride the bicycle on highways or city streets.  Just lucky the multi-use trails systems around here are extensive.


Depends on the region.  Portland's MUPs suck because they're bad at maintaining them, the centerlines, lane lines and shoulder lines are faded or missing, and there's no obvious hints for pedestrians on where to go (so they often walk edge to edge, blocking both directions).  Tulsa is lightyears ahead of Portland on the cycleways, except navigational signage (which, if it's existant at all, is just the old school "BIKE ROUTE" signs that expect you to be a psychic and know the route's destination and midpoints):  Lane markings, roadway surface, and signage is well maintained, pedestrians have an idea which side to walk on and are good about sticking to that side so other traffic can pass easily (if not given their own sidewalk), and it's all around an easier system to ride on.  Wish we had the first/last mile situation figured out, getting from anywhere and to anywhere from the cycleway network requires riding on some section line roads, which isn't for the faint hearted.  Reminds me of Portland 20 years ago before it had bike lanes to speak of, except with an actually decent cycleway network.
 
2013-07-08 02:00:14 AM  

inglixthemad: I watch a group of cyclists go down my road every few days and the rules don't apply to them. Stop signs? Perish the thought!


What state?  Idaho and most of the midwest allow bicycles (and some cases like Oklahoma and Missouri, motorcycles) to treat stop signs the same as yield signs.
 
2013-07-08 02:03:58 AM  

lack of warmth: Carth: Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'

So you are saying double standards are stated in the law?  Because it does sound like a really not well thought out idea to make the runners run in traffic, but the cyclists can have their own private real estate.


Pretty common, though.  Oregon does this, though on the otherhand, Oregon does not have jaywalking laws, so crosswalks and sidewalks are merely suggestions, and not one that's ever taken by any jogger or runner I've seen in Oregon.
 
2013-07-08 02:11:11 AM  

runescorpio: I am a commercial driver that has a vehicle that is literally the legal maximum width.


Goes to show there's a huge difference between merely being a commercial driver, and being a professional driver.  I fall into both categories by driving a bit more defensively and taking more time to deal with disorderly operators, both motorized or not, and I don't let it stress me out.  This shiat happens on the road.  If you can't handle it, you're part of the problem.
 
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