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10216 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jul 2013 at 8:09 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:    more»

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Does road rage piss him off?

Does not approve

It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

"Did you get the tag of the car that ran you over?"

Na na na na na na na

I know that conventional fark knowledge holds cyclists pretty low on the food chain, but road ragers are at a circle of hell far below that. Saw a woman get cut off last week and she drove into the oncoming traffic lane for about 2 miles to get alongside the person who cut her off and literally try to run them off the road (sideswiping), I think I was not the only driver getting their phone out to call the cops on her crazy ass. Finally the other driver managed to pull off onto a side street and the psycho got stuck in an intersection, but she was out for literal blood it seems.

I have my problems with the Spandex Assholes that ride around Boulder, but I'd stand with them against this kind of bullshiat.  I was on my commuter bike in a 6ft wide bike lane a few weeks ago and some woman on a cell phone drifted into my lane to the point where I could slap her back windshield. I wish I had had my bike lock in hand to give her a good thwack.  Not the same thing, I know, but I'm still pissed.

My name is Richie Cunningham. And this is my wife, Oprah.

How does one "Suffer" from road rage? It isn't cancer.  It is a voluntary state of being.

Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

That's what he gets for going for a swim on the highway

when will motorists learn roads were built for bicyclists, joggers, skateboarders, groups of teens walking in numbers abreast and idiots paying attention to their texting?

The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

Yogimus: How does one "Suffer" from road rage? It isn't cancer.  It is a voluntary state of being.

People I know that have it don't seem to be able to turn it off.

Mostly unrelated story - but early last year I was training for a 10k run.  I was out for a run, down a road I hadn't been on before - it was really crowded though (busy city here) and I couldn't run on the sidewalk.  But there was a bicycle lane that was being *very lightly* used.

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.

Cyclists are constantly riding with cars.  Cyclists are smaller and slower, and they constantly complain about how a**hole drivers don't give them space or treat them like they belong.  Seeing that I was slower than them, and without a bicycle, I expected that they would be understanding.  That they would give me plenty of space, and wait until it was safe to pass me.  Sure, I can't run as fast as a cyclist, but a cyclist can't cycle as fast as car.  If they expect cars to slow down and go their speed until they can safely pass - certainly, they wouldn't begrudge doing the same to me.  Right?

Apparently, I was wrong.  Yay for double standards!

Go find a closed course somewhere to practice and stop bothering the rest of us with your Lance Armstrong fantasies.

TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

3/10.  I got halfway through typing a response.

There are asses on both sides of the rider / car equation, but in every case, the cyclist will lose. Yeah, we have a right to ride on the roads. No, cars don't have the right to put cyclists in danger. Still, the odds are stacked in favor of the driver. I try to minimize my time on the road to ones with wide shoulders just for safety.

(Not So ) CSB....

I was bike commuting to work on a paved bike trail that has several street level crossings. Stopped at one, and traffic on the right stopped. I held up my hand to acknowledge the driver, and waited for the left traffic to stop. Since it was a 2-lane street, and both sides were stopped, I clipped in and rolled forward. No sooner did I clear the car on the right, than a guy from three cars back came flying around the cars, passing on the right, and flipped me up on the hood like Mannix. I went up the hood, smacked my ribs on the A pillar of the car, and slid back down to the pavement still clipped into the pedals.

The guy at first said, "I didn't see him." Well, yeah - when you pass a line of stopped cars on the right at a highly marked crosswalk, you're not likely to see someone actually IN the crosswalk.

He initially pled 'not guilty' to the citation, probably hoping that the officer wouldn't show. They did, as did I. At first, he said he was trying to park the car (at 25MPH). He then said he was looking of a museum (in Vienna, Va....where there are no museums within 10 miles). THEN, he said that I ran out in front of him, using the 'spandex' defense (that all cyclists are dangerous)....When it was my turn, I just handed the judge a printout of my GPS/HR monitor data.....which showed my exact location, slowing my speed, heart rate and pedal cadence approaching the intersection...then being stopped for 45 seconds before moving forward at 5 MPH......then suddenly moving sideways at 20MPH.

Guilty as charged. Took three years to settle out for my bike, doctor visits and X-rays/MRI's and PT (thanks to bruised ribs, a hip injury and a cracked vertebrae). Not fun at all.

bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

Chances are, those drivers are likely oblivious to other cars as well.  So, you are not alone when it comes to idiots who should not have been given their licenses.

Too bad we don't have the other side of the story. Could have stopped for a dog in the road and they were just following too close/tailgating.

Charge the driver with assault with a deadly weapon. Maybe if drivers start doing some jail time for running cyclist off the road they'll calm the fark down.

astro716: TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

3/10.  I got halfway through typing a response.

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

Yes, I believe the guy in the car most likely had road rage but from the cyclist's own story, he was passed before they started going downhill which means he was going substantially below the speed limit.  (unless these guys can pedal 45mph up a hill outside Boulder)

/glad the guy wasn't hurt too bad
//and I don't have any reason not to believe the cyclist's story but he is going to have to prove he wasn't following too close (although the motorist is going to be cited for leaving the scene of an accident)
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)

bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Mostly unrelated story - but early last year I was training for a 10k run.  I was out for a run, down a road I hadn't been on before - it was really crowded though (busy city here) and I couldn't run on the sidewalk.  But there was a bicycle lane that was being *very lightly* used.

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.

Cyclists are constantly riding with cars.  Cyclists are smaller and slower, and they constantly complain about how a**hole drivers don't give them space or treat them like they belong.  Seeing that I was slower than them, and without a bicycle, I expected that they would be understanding.  That they would give me plenty of space, and wait until it was safe to pass me.  Sure, I can't run as fast as a cyclist, but a cyclist can't cycle as fast as car.  If they expect cars to slow down and go their speed until they can safely pass - certainly, they wouldn't begrudge doing the same to me.  Right?

Apparently, I was wrong.  Yay for double standards!

In most areas cyclists have a legal right to the road and are allowed to 'take the lane; as necessary.

Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'

kokomo61: There are asses on both sides of the rider / car equation, but in every case, the cyclist will lose. Yeah, we have a right to ride on the roads. No, cars don't have the right to put cyclists in danger. Still, the odds are stacked in favor of the driver. I try to minimize my time on the road to ones with wide shoulders just for safety.

(Not So ) CSB....

I was bike commuting to work on a paved bike trail that has several street level crossings. Stopped at one, and traffic on the right stopped. I held up my hand to acknowledge the driver, and waited for the left traffic to stop. Since it was a 2-lane street, and both sides were stopped, I clipped in and rolled forward. No sooner did I clear the car on the right, than a guy from three cars back came flying around the cars, passing on the right, and flipped me up on the hood like Mannix. I went up the hood, smacked my ribs on the A pillar of the car, and slid back down to the pavement still clipped into the pedals.

The guy at first said, "I didn't see him." Well, yeah - when you pass a line of stopped cars on the right at a highly marked crosswalk, you're not likely to see someone actually IN the crosswalk.

He initially pled 'not guilty' to the citation, probably hoping that the officer wouldn't show. They did, as did I. At first, he said he was trying to park the car (at 25MPH). He then said he was looking of a museum (in Vienna, Va....where there are no museums within 10 miles). THEN, he said that I ran out in front of him, using the 'spandex' defense (that all cyclists are dangerous)....When it was my turn, I just handed the judge a printout of my GPS/HR monitor data.....which showed my exact location, slowing my speed, heart rate and pedal cadence approaching the intersection...then being stopped for 45 seconds before moving forward at 5 MPH......then suddenly moving sideways at 20MPH.

Guilty as charged. Took three years to settle out for my bike, doctor visits and X-rays/MRI's and PT (thanks to bruised ribs, a ...

This is the primary reason I rarely ride the bicycle on highways or city streets.  Just lucky the multi-use trails systems around here are extensive.

/going to be curious to what the cyclist's GPS data shows also

The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I watch a group of cyclists go down my road every few days and the rules don't apply to them. Stop signs? Perish the thought!

I hate that. In Amsterdam if you pull that shiat you get a ticket. The Dutch may be very protective of bikers, but you better follow the rules of the road.

BunkyBrewman: astro716: TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

3/10.  I got halfway through typing a response.

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

Yes, I believe the guy in the car most likely had road rage but from the cyclist's own story, he was passed before they started going downhill which means he was going substantially below the speed limit.  (unless these guys can pedal 45mph up a hill outside Boulder)

/glad the guy wasn't hurt too bad
//and I don't have any reason not to believe the cyclist's story but he is going to have to prove he wasn't following too close (although the motorist is going to be cited for leaving the scene of an accident)
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)

Swoop and squat in vegas? That'll cost you double at least

Carth: Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'

So you are saying double standards are stated in the law?  Because it does sound like a really not well thought out idea to make the runners run in traffic, but the cyclists can have their own private real estate.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Mostly unrelated story - but early last year I was training for a 10k run.  I was out for a run, down a road I hadn't been on before - it was really crowded though (busy city here) and I couldn't run on the sidewalk.  But there was a bicycle lane that was being *very lightly* used.

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.

Well, there's your problem. Roads are assumed shared. Marked bike lanes, not so much.

BunkyBrewman:

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

If it wasn't 8am on a sunday I'd do the math: E=\frac{1}{2}m\Delta v^{2},

Depending on the tires the triathlete was using I'm betting the coefficient of friction was so low there is no way he could stop if he was going downhill  at speeds around 30-40mph.

This is why Go Pro cameras are awesome on bikes. It is great having video proof when this shiat happens.

If you cannot keep up with the pace of traffic you do not belong on the road.

Just like a slow car, they cause massive problems in traffic also.

It's my guess that anyone who drives an automobile experiences road rage to different degrees, due to other drivers who are aggressive, heedless, and downright dangerous.  It depends on how well that adrenalin burst is controlled, which translates into how your own vehicle is controlled when you encounter these assholes.

As some Farker put it in an unrelated thread, you can't drink poison and expect the other person to die.

nucal: Does not approve

Where is the Fonz when you need him?

lack of warmth: Carth: Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'

So you are saying double standards are stated in the law?  Because it does sound like a really not well thought out idea to make the runners run in traffic, but the cyclists can have their own private real estate.

You aren't allowed to run in the road either. You have to run against traffic on the shoulder. I wish they'd made it illegal to run with headphones in too since too many runners are oblivious to what is going on around them.

I'd love to hear the other side of the story.

I like to imagine it went like this...

I was running late for work, going 5 mph over the speed limit.  As I go around a blind corner these three idiots dressed in spandex were peddling 3 wide across the entire lane.  I swerved, honked and had to swerve back for oncoming traffic.  As one of them flipped me the bird, he lost control and wiped out.  It was hilarious.

kokomo61: There are asses on both sides of the rider / car equation, but in every case, the cyclist will lose. Yeah, we have a right to ride on the roads. No, cars don't have the right to put cyclists in danger. Still, the odds are stacked in favor of the driver. I try to minimize my time on the road to ones with wide shoulders just for safety.

(Not So ) CSB....

I was bike commuting to work on a paved bike trail that has several street level crossings. Stopped at one, and traffic on the right stopped. I held up my hand to acknowledge the driver, and waited for the left traffic to stop. Since it was a 2-lane street, and both sides were stopped, I clipped in and rolled forward. No sooner did I clear the car on the right, than a guy from three cars back came flying around the cars, passing on the right, and flipped me up on the hood like Mannix. I went up the hood, smacked my ribs on the A pillar of the car, and slid back down to the pavement still clipped into the pedals.

The guy at first said, "I didn't see him." Well, yeah - when you pass a line of stopped cars on the right at a highly marked crosswalk, you're not likely to see someone actually IN the crosswalk.

He initially pled 'not guilty' to the citation, probably hoping that the officer wouldn't show. They did, as did I. At first, he said he was trying to park the car (at 25MPH). He then said he was looking of a museum (in Vienna, Va....where there are no museums within 10 miles). THEN, he said that I ran out in front of him, using the 'spandex' defense (that all cyclists are dangerous)....When it was my turn, I just handed the judge a printout of my GPS/HR monitor data.....which showed my exact location, slowing my speed, heart rate and pedal cadence approaching the intersection...then being stopped for 45 seconds before moving forward at 5 MPH......then suddenly moving sideways at 20MPH.

Guilty as charged. Took three years to settle out for my bike, doctor visits and X-rays/MRI's and PT (thanks to bruised ribs, a ...

Hopefully, having to pay you for the bike & medical bills might cure that driver of acute douchebaggery.

/ probably not
// despite the judgement of the Court, I bet he blames you for everything. That's just how douchebags roll...

a motorist suffering from road rage

Carth: lack of warmth: Carth: Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'

So you are saying double standards are stated in the law?  Because it does sound like a really not well thought out idea to make the runners run in traffic, but the cyclists can have their own private real estate.

You aren't allowed to run in the road either. You have to run against traffic on the shoulder. I wish they'd made it illegal to run with headphones in too since too many runners are oblivious to what is going on around them.

Seriously, I enjoy running, and nothing irks me more than seeing other runners or walkers walking with traffic, headphones on, oblivious to everything. Especially the large groups of middle aged women gabbing while walking. The neighborhood I grew up in had no sidewalks, so I was always very careful and alert while running there. My new neighborhood has plenty of sidewalks, which makes me happy.

I would never assume the bike lane is for runners. It's a narrow lane, where the hell are they supposed to go when you're taking it up? If its too crowded on the sidewalk, either get out on your run earlier (or later), or find a new route.

It would be poetic justice if the driver probably had to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting a prairie dog....for some reason the asshats in Boulder seem to believe that prairie dogs are on the same level as FSM and deserve to be worshiped.  Really, they're nothing more than cuter form of ground rats.

Also, how much do you want to bet these 3 asshats were riding 3 wide instead of single file?   It's always the ones "in training" that seem to have the believe that road rules no longer apply to them.

BunkyBrewman: astro716: TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

3/10.  I got halfway through typing a response.

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

Yes, I believe the guy in the car most likely had road rage but from the cyclist's own story, he was passed before they started going downhill which means he was going substantially below the speed limit.  (unless these guys can pedal 45mph up a hill outside Boulder)

/glad the guy wasn't hurt too bad
//and I don't have any reason not to believe the cyclist's story but he is going to have to prove he wasn't following too close (although the motorist is going to be cited for leaving the scene of an accident)
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)

Thing is noone hit the motorist. He wasnt actually in an accident.
I personally do not think cyclists should be on the roads with cars. No insurance for the reckless ones and no visible identification for the ones that cruise through 4 way stops. No lights when all other new vehicles have daytime running lights as a requirement.
I am a commercial driver that has a vehicle that is literally the legal maximum width. Cyclists hopping curbs at lights to get around me essentially barricade moderate traffic at their speed and endanger pedestrians when they get in the middle of them but they do it regularly.
They cut people off with no signals, come past at high speed in heavy traffic when I have a reduced rear visibility vehicle and crowd me.
Screw all cyclists. Make bike paths and go there. 9 years of accident free driving all my most dangerous situations are with cyclists.

The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

Oddly, I've had more problems running than biking. Most of the time it involves crossing a street at a T intersection. Someone coming off a side street attempting to make a right turn onto the main road will approach the intersection while staring out their left window for oncoming traffic. If there isn't any, they immediately start their right turn without ever checking the crosswalk for pedestrians. Happens at least once every week. On the rare occasion they cut so close to me could give their car a kick, but usually just manage to yell a "HEY!" and spend the next mile or two being all annoyed.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Apparently, I was wrong.

Do you think you should be able to go for a run down the middle of the traffic lane as well? Cycle lanes are usually there because it's been determined safety issues exist with cars and bikes sharing the road, or there is a large population of cycles in the area requiring their own lane. If I was in an area with a cycle lane and there were runners using it, I'd probably be annoyed too-- especially if there was a sidewalk.

Cyclists... the scourge of anyone trying to get anywhere on time using the roads. This guy's luck probably caught up with him after blocking the road for many, many other people and enjoying it.

A guy in Los Angeles got prison time for a similar move.

Something to think about when you're working out your ITG "brake check a tailgater and win the lottery" plan.

I'm no fan of road rage assholes, but to be fair, Mr Ironman didn't hit the car. He misjudged if he could get around the car, had to stop too fast, and flipped over the handlebars.  He was operating his bike too fast then. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, then you are going too fast.

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

LemSkroob: Go find a closed course somewhere to practice and stop bothering the rest of us with your Lance Armstrong fantasies.

I live with my mom

Nobody fantasizes about being Lance Armstrong anymore.

The two lane road leaving my office has a recently added bike lane.  For about 4 blocks.  Then it abruptly ends at a crowded stoplight, and is followed by painted signs on the road of a bike and arrows, indicating the bike lane continues further ahead (it doesn't).  People are always cutting into the bike lane in order to be closer to the light, where the street opens into four lanes.  You couldn't pay me to ride my bike in that death-trap of a lane.

Publikwerks: I

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

If the biker intentionally stopped with the goal of creating an unsafe situation? Yes. That is what the cyclist seems to be accusing the driver of and if it actually happened would make the car at fault.

According to the article from the drivers point of view he passed the bikes, later had to hit the brakes for some reason, and one of the bikes behind him flipped (if he even saw that). He was not even involved with any kind of accident (no contact with his car) and may not have even seen the bikes behind him.

Carth: Charge the driver with assault with a deadly weapon. Maybe if drivers start doing some jail time for running cyclist off the road they'll calm the fark down.

No, charge them with attempted murder.  Upon conviction, hang them.  Road rage will vanish overnight either from people no longer being raging assholes or we kill all the raging assholes.  Either way, no more raging assholes.

Very strange people at fark. They scream about global warming and carbon footprints yet they side with the evil polluters! LOL

Yogimus: How does one "Suffer" from road rage? It isn't cancer.  It is a voluntary state of being.

I wish I knew. I know I certainly don't suffer from road rage, though the people around me seem to.

Zeno-25: Cyclists... the scourge of anyone trying to get anywhere on time using the roads. This guy's luck probably caught up with him after blocking the road for many, many other people and enjoying it.

Every time I see someone like you cresting a hill or coming around a blind corner straddling the center line in their truck I think of these bike threads.  Oh sure in these threads you are all ragging on cyclists because you don't look good in spandex and get winded carrying the big bag of tater tots out of the freezer but once you get behind the wheel of your truck its time to drive down the middle of the road like an encephalitic cataract sufferer on Ambien.

Happy Baseless Assumption Day to you too!!

Fark_Guy_Rob: Mostly unrelated story - but early last year I was training for a 10k run.  I was out for a run, down a road I hadn't been on before - it was really crowded though (busy city here) and I couldn't run on the sidewalk.  But there was a bicycle lane that was being *very lightly* used.

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.

Cyclists are constantly riding with cars.  Cyclists are smaller and slower, and they constantly complain about how a**hole drivers don't give them space or treat them like they belong.  Seeing that I was slower than them, and without a bicycle, I expected that they would be understanding.  That they would give me plenty of space, and wait until it was safe to pass me.  Sure, I can't run as fast as a cyclist, but a cyclist can't cycle as fast as car.  If they expect cars to slow down and go their speed until they can safely pass - certainly, they wouldn't begrudge doing the same to me.  Right?

Apparently, I was wrong.  Yay for double standards!

You are not a vehicle. Stay out of the street. Bikes should stay off the sidewalk for the same reason. If it's too crowded to run on a sidewalk, find a different running route.

Re: TFA. It's quite possible the car driver was just a dick, but I'd be interested to know if the cyclists were riding abreast. Because that is a total dick move; share the road goes both ways.

Dead for Tax Reasons:
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)

Swoop and squat in vegas? That'll cost you double at least

They all got out of the car holding their necks and screaming they were hurt.  The cop arrived and found no damage on either car.  (literally not a scratch) The cop did not even fill out an actual accident report since there was no damage.  They refused any type of medical treatment.  I never did ask how much my insurance company settled for, but quite sure it would've been enough to make my blood boil.  After they took the bumper off of their car, they claimed there damage.  Not sure how much there could have been since the vehicle I was in had nothing (it was fully inspected along with the frame behind the bumper)  I guess their Mercedes was no match for my awesome Chrysler sebring convertible rental car.

stirfrybry: Very strange people at fark. They scream about global warming and carbon footprints yet they side with the evil polluters! LOL

Everything said in a Fark thread will eventually become a reductio. There is no facrtoid or philosophy that this place does not render into a ridiculous mental goo. But much like a Salvador Dali clock painting, it persists, so what else is there to do?

Carth: Publikwerks: I

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

If the biker intentionally stopped with the goal of creating an unsafe situation? Yes. That is what the cyclist seems to be accusing the driver of and if it actually happened would make the car at fault.

Bikes are inherently unsafe when on the road with cars.

BTW - Here's the problem with bikers:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/06/14/waltham-man-killed-maine -w hile-riding-his-bike-for-charity/sD9DDRiWJyln4b5LS6tOyL/story.html

Here's a part of the article:

Police said David LeClair was cycling along Route 2 in Hanover just before 9 a.m. with a group of other employees from Athenahealth Inc. of Watertown when the rear of a tractor-trailer hit LeClair, killing him instantly.

The truck did not stop, police said in a statement, although it was unclear if the driver knew his vehicle had struck LeClair.

LeClair's companions called police with a description of the truck, and police stopped a driver operating a truck matching the description a short time later in nearby Rumford. Police said they were interviewing the driver Friday and examining the vehicle.

Here's the follow up:
http://bangordailynews.com/2013/06/17/news/state/bicyclist-drinking- wa ter-at-time-of-fatal-collision-with-canadian-truck-in-trek-across-main e-police-say/
A bicyclist  who died Friday while participating in the Trek Across Maine lost control of his bike while drinking from a water bottle as a tractor-trailer passed him, according to police.

So part of me wonders whether or not they were operating as they should, because the fact of the matter is that he was not in control of his bicycle. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, you are not in control

stirfrybry: Very strange people at fark. They scream about global warming and carbon footprints yet they side with the evil polluters! LOL

Every single bicyclist I know doesn't also own a car, and they get all their spandex clothing from naturally occurring fairy rings where the forest druids call upon the earth mother to grant them the gift of brightly colored spandex outfits.  Every single one.

nucal: Does not approve

I would punch my momma right in da mouf....

Carth: BunkyBrewman:

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

The bike at the same speed takes longer, definitely. Bike brakes suck. Cars weigh a lot more, but they have giant disc brakes gripped hydraulically by ceramic plates, while bikes have itty bits of rubber hand-squeezed onto a tiny strip of often-damp tire rim.

/Have a permanent dent in my left thigh from where a car with old-fashioned door handles passed me and immediately turned right into a parking lot, in the rain, assuming I could stop.

Publikwerks: I'm no fan of road rage assholes, but to be fair, Mr Ironman didn't hit the car. He misjudged if he could get around the car, had to stop too fast, and flipped over the handlebars.  He was operating his bike too fast then. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, then you are going too fast.

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

You know, that's actually a pretty good point. He did say his first choice was to try to get around the car. I'm not defending the motorist, but it's a valid argument.

BunkyBrewman: Dead for Tax Reasons:
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)

Swoop and squat in vegas? That'll cost you double at least

They all got out of the car holding their necks and screaming they were hurt.  The cop arrived and found no damage on either car.  (literally not a scratch) The cop did not even fill out an actual accident report since there was no damage.  They refused any type of medical treatment.  I never did ask how much my insurance company settled for, but quite sure it would've been enough to make my blood boil.  After they took the bumper off of their car, they claimed there damage.  Not sure how much there could have been since the vehicle I was in had nothing (it was fully inspected along with the frame behind the bumper)  I guess their Mercedes was no match for my awesome Chrysler sebring convertible rental car.

That story suffered from a severe lack of hookers

I commute by car every morning through Boulder. It's peak time for bike commuters and cyclists taking advantage of cooler temperatures, and there are a lot of them on my route.

Even the rare riders not obeying the law and riding two or three abreast are such a momentary inconvenience I'm having a hard time understanding the contempt in this thread, let alone the people who would act aggressively towards them while driving in a car.

STAY. AWAY. FROM. CARS.

If you can't, KEEP YOUR EYES ON THEM.

13 years now I've been biking thru Philly. No road rage incidents. No injuries. Why? Ride against traffic, stay on the sidewalk as much as you can, don't be a dick when pedestrians are around. Simple. Works. Saved by ass NUMEROUS times.

"I was having one of my best seasons. I'm 39 soon to be 40. I don't have that much longer to keep competing."

But doesn't he know that at 40 he's in better shape than at 20?

Where are the Middle Aged Delusion Syndrome farkers?

Ker_Thwap: idiots dressed in spandex were peddling 3 wide across the entire lane.

It is dangerous to sell bikes on the highway, yes. Perhaps one day someone will sell you a dictionary.

WinoRhino: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

Oddly, I've had more problems running than biking. Most of the time it involves crossing a street at a T intersection. Someone coming off a side street attempting to make a right turn onto the main road will approach the intersection while staring out their left window for oncoming traffic. If there isn't any, they immediately start their right turn without ever checking the crosswalk for pedestrians. Happens at least once every week. On the rare occasion they cut so close to me could give their car a kick, but usually just manage to yell a "HEY!" and spend the next mile or two being all annoyed.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Apparently, I was wrong.

Do you think you should be able to go for a run down the middle of the traffic lane as well? Cycle lanes are usually there because it's been determined safety issues exist with cars and bikes sharing the road, or there is a large population of cycles in the area requiring their own lane. If I was in an area with a cycle lane and there were runners using it, I'd probably be annoyed too-- especially if there was a sidewalk.

I'm too much a klutz for road or mountain biking, so I run. In Colorado at least, it is legal for a pedestrian to walk or run in the roadway. Not recommended, but legal. When I run roads (very rarely) I run in the bike lane facing traffic - and share. It's easy to get around a bike.

Have almost been hit 3 times this calendar year by people turning right without looking. And I've been run off the road in my car by a broad from South Dakota who didn't understand that you need to look before changing lanes. Pickups and minivans seem to be the vehicle of choice for idiots.

Now: As for the crowd that thinks carbon fiber is a substitute for penis length - yes, there are too many to count. I stopped at a midblock crosswalk to let a family on bikes cross. Asshole in spandex passed me on the right, nearly clipped a 7 year old girl, and ran the red. I followed him at 20-25 mph for 3 miles, never honking, never saying anything, never buzzing him, obeying all traffic laws, just calmly following him. By the time he found a path I couldn't drive on the guy was screaming and shaking; he had no idea what I was up to, which was nothing except pure psychological warfare.

mark12A: STAY. AWAY. FROM. CARS.

If you can't, KEEP YOUR EYES ON THEM.

13 years now I've been biking thru Philly. No road rage incidents. No injuries. Why? Ride against traffic, stay on the sidewalk as much as you can, don't be a dick when pedestrians are around. Simple. Works. Saved by ass NUMEROUS times.

That's fine if you're going a short distance, slowly. Bikes don't belong on the sidewalk. I commuted in DC, and on many streets I was faster than the cars, because I could pass a whole line of them at a light. The sidewalks aren't an option there; crowded and in poor repair.

You stay hard to the right, and if you're slowing up cars because of a narrow lane with cars parked along it, you stand on the pedals and sprint. Never had an incident.

WinoRhino: Publikwerks: I'm no fan of road rage assholes, but to be fair, Mr Ironman didn't hit the car. He misjudged if he could get around the car, had to stop too fast, and flipped over the handlebars.  He was operating his bike too fast then. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, then you are going too fast.

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

You know, that's actually a pretty good point. He did say his first choice was to try to get around the car. I'm not defending the motorist, but it's a valid argument.

That's what I'm saying. I give Bikes a wide berth, and I try to chill with the little things. But the problem is that some bicyclists seem to have no issue with operating right up to and beyond the line of safe operation, and when something goes wrong, the car operator has to make up the difference or bad things happen.

blacksho89: Now: As for the crowd that thinks carbon fiber is a substitute for penis length - yes, there are too many to count. I stopped at a midblock crosswalk to let a family on bikes cross. Asshole in spandex passed me on the right, nearly clipped a 7 year old girl, and ran the red. I followed him at 20-25 mph for 3 miles, never honking, never saying anything, never buzzing him, obeying all traffic laws, just calmly following him. By the time he found a path I couldn't drive on the guy was screaming and shaking; he had no idea what I was up to, which was nothing except pure psychological warfare.

Quantum Apostrophe: "I was having one of my best seasons. I'm 39 soon to be 40. I don't have that much longer to keep competing."

But doesn't he know that at 40 he's in better shape than at 20?

Where are the Middle Aged Delusion Syndrome farkers?

That's a real thing. When I was 43, I got down to 155 pounds, and inline-skated 38 miles in 3:20. At 45, I ran a 10k in under an hour. When I was 20, I couldn't do endurance sports. I could run three miles in under 25 minutes for my Navy ROTC test, but I felt like I was dying the whole time.

/Got fat; can't do crap in my 50s.

"Youre goin' 30 feet up in the FARKing air, that's where you're going!" -G. Carlin

Yogimus: How does one "Suffer" from road rage? It isn't cancer.  It is a voluntary state of being.

It's like having an itchy trigger finger I think.

I've been in the driver's position before.  Idiot cyclers going half the speed limit but riding in a way that makes it really hard to pass.  And it sounds like the driver finally got a chance to pass and the cyclists took offense to the way he passed and started riding him.  Oops.

//If you live in SF and you ever see Critical Mass, you will lose all ability to ever feel bad for a cyclist who gets nailed by a car

Quantum Apostrophe: "I was having one of my best seasons. I'm 39 soon to be 40. I don't have that much longer to keep competing."

But doesn't he know that at 40 he's in better shape than at 20?

Where are the Middle Aged Delusion Syndrome farkers?

Ker_Thwap: idiots dressed in spandex were peddling 3 wide across the entire lane.

It is dangerous to sell bikes on the highway, yes. Perhaps one day someone will sell you a dictionary.

Go look at Ironman race winners, and look at their ages. 40 year olds are faster than 20 year olds. And when you get into ultrarunning (100 miles +), women are minutes away from beating men. Ann Trason has won some ultras outright.
You might want to check your assumptions; they don't agree with the facts. And make sure you polish the brush guard on your Ram this weekend; you'll need it at the grocery store.

kokomo61: There are asses on both sides of the rider / car equation, but in every case, the cyclist will lose. Yeah, we have a right to ride on the roads. No, cars don't have the right to put cyclists in danger. Still, the odds are stacked in favor of the driver. I try to minimize my time on the road to ones with wide shoulders just for safety.

I live in NoVa too (Live in Herndon, work in Reston).  Very close to the W&OD trail in fact.  I've got mad love for the bikers around here.  Butttt....Nothing infuriates me more than encountering a group of 8 to 12, or even 20+, heavily logoed, spandex wearing, Lance Armstrong wannabees riding 4-5 abreast down a 2 lane street that also happens to have a dedicated bike lane, or at least a section that is large enough for a bike, hell...even two bike riding side by side.

I know I am supposed to "share the road," but that does not give the bikers the right to be road hogging dicks too.  If the speed limit is 40, and you cannot sustain that kind of speed...GET THE FARK OUT OF THE FARKING WAY AND LET CARS PASS YOU, YOU SELF CENTERED DICKS!!!  There is no reason that they need to ride 4-5 abreast.  I know you may take issue with what I am saying here...but the bikers, like it or not, have some responsibility in the matter here too.  Just because you have the right to do something, depending on the circumstance, or location, may not make it correct.

Reminds me of The Dude saying: "You're not wrong, you're just an asshole"

You pickin' up what I'm throwin' down?

CSB:
A few years ago, I (among others) called the cops on a biker.  He was on Fairfax County Parkway...not riding on the shoulder/bike lane, no...in the actual car lane, at like 15MPH.  He had created a line of traffic that went back at least a 1/2 mile or more.  Once I got to the front and had the opportunity to discover the reason for the slowing, and pass him, I called 911.  The dude was going to get himself hurt due to the rage that was building behind him.  I was told that I was like the 20th person to call in the last 15 minutes, and that they already had a cop at the next intersection waiting to "deal with the moron" as the dispatcher put it.

I honestly cannot fathom why anyone sees it as being a good idea riding a bike on a, not perfectly straight, often curvy and somewhat hilly, 4 lane road that has 50MPH posted speed limits, where drivers regularly drive 60+MPH, and cross into each others lanes and the shoulder too.

I just "buzzed" a bicyclist riding half of the way into the road, when there was a good 6 feet to his right for biking (and bike lane markings).  Sorry, I'm not going to cross the double yellow lines into oncoming traffic, "share the road" works both ways.

lazymojo: Yogimus: How does one "Suffer" from road rage? It isn't cancer.  It is a voluntary state of being.

It's like having an itchy trigger finger I think.

I have road rage pretty bad sometimes. I'm at my worst when I'm running late and in general need to get my shiat together. I assume it's a control issue. But I'm not such a shiat that I would take it out on some dude on a bike.

Hey, if you want to inconvenience hundreds of motorists for your own gay little hobby, then you take your chances. Cry me a river, a**holes, and pray I still believe there's a chance I could get caught.

I'm getting a kick because I'm also training for an Ironman at the end of this summer...

I sympathize quite a bit with the biker. As long as he doesn't ride like an asshole. Most cyclists don't, but the few who do ruin it for the rest of us. On the other hand, 9 out of 10 drivers don't drive like assholes either.

Articles like this are why this will probably be my only Ironman. I'll stick to running and shorter triathlons. I've come to realize that it's only a matter of time before some asshole who hates cyclists runs me off the road/hits me and seriously injures or kills me.

/It's always some dumbass redneck in a giant truck getting as close as he can to you and then flooring it to scare you.
//last week I had to jump off the road to avoid a crop dusting plane taking off on it. That was a new experience...

Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

The guy may have slammed in his brakes to be a dick, but it wouldn't be an issue if the bike wasn't following so close.

Quantum Apostrophe: blacksho89: Now: As for the crowd that thinks carbon fiber is a substitute for penis length - yes, there are too many to count. I stopped at a midblock crosswalk to let a family on bikes cross. Asshole in spandex passed me on the right, nearly clipped a 7 year old girl, and ran the red. I followed him at 20-25 mph for 3 miles, never honking, never saying anything, never buzzing him, obeying all traffic laws, just calmly following him. By the time he found a path I couldn't drive on the guy was screaming and shaking; he had no idea what I was up to, which was nothing except pure psychological warfare.

In that ferocious and self-annihilating way in which so many men of his generation served their families, my father served my mother, my sister Hannah, but particularly me.

Also, there's a damn good reason cyclist wear those spandex shorts. They have a pad on the crotch of the shorts and are a million times more comfortable on a long ride. It's not because they're "Lance Armstrong wannabes". Would you call a high school football player wearing his pads and uniform a "Tom Brady" wannabe? No, it's a farking uniform.

FTFA:
"To be perfectly honest, there are enough cyclists and courteous drivers that we have it pretty good here," he said. "But occasionally you have a bad apple... It's just tough when something like this happens. It seems completely senseless."

And by "bad apple", he means someone who doesn't think it's okay to just let the rest of a large group of bicyclists through on red light, in clear violation of the law.

farking dicks.

Endive Wombat: kokomo61: There are asses on both sides of the rider / car equation, but in every case, the cyclist will lose. Yeah, we have a right to ride on the roads. No, cars don't have the right to put cyclists in danger. Still, the odds are stacked in favor of the driver. I try to minimize my time on the road to ones with wide shoulders just for safety.

I live in NoVa too (Live in Herndon, work in Reston).  Very close to the W&OD trail in fact.  I've got mad love for the bikers around here.  Butttt....Nothing infuriates me more than encountering a group of 8 to 12, or even 20+, heavily logoed, spandex wearing, Lance Armstrong wannabees riding 4-5 abreast down a 2 lane street that also happens to have a dedicated bike lane, or at least a section that is large enough for a bike, hell...even two bike riding side by side.

Cycle racing definitely seems to appeal to self-entitled dicks. They're even worse on multi-use trails. You see idiots drafting on each other at 30+ mph, dodging around little kids on tricycles and old couples out for a walk. I was skating on a trail in NoVa when some jerk leading a bike pace line told me not to use so much of my lane. They're skates, asshole; they require a much wider track than a bicycle. I sent him off with a few choice comments about his cranial anatomy and parentage.

Spandex, though; spandex rules. If you're on a bike or skates for more than an hour, you REALLY appreciate how much more comfortable spandex is than running shorts.

phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

No. Car turning yields both to traffic from the left, and traffic abreast in the bike lane. If the cyclist is coming up from behind the car, the car should still should yield because he's crossing the bike lane in order to turn. In practice, the cyclist should be ready to yield, because car drivers are generally oblivious to bikes.

phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

Traffic laws suck. Not sure of the legality, but in the case you mention, common sense would dictate that the cyclist stage to the left of and in front of the right-turning car, much as if he were a vehicle. Otherwise, as a cyclist is technically a pedestrian, he has the right of way if he is at the crosswalk..

If cycles behaved as vehicles ALL OF THE TIME or as pedestrians ALL OF THE TIME there would be less angry interaction.

SirGeorgeBurkelwitzIII: Also, there's a damn good reason cyclist wear those spandex shorts. They have a pad on the crotch of the shorts and are a million times more comfortable on a long ride. It's not because they're "Lance Armstrong wannabes". Would you call a high school football player wearing his pads and uniform a "Tom Brady" wannabe? No, it's a farking uniform.

Eh, not really.  The padding helps initially when you first start riding.  Once you build up some muscle in the area, you don't really need the pads.  I've been riding about a year, when I do bother to wear the padded liner, I wear some baggy shorts over it.  No one wants to see my 50 year old butt with that much detail.

I also pull over when cars approach me, screw my rights, I'm not going to trust half blind elderly drivers, texting idiots, distracted and drunk drivers with my life.  I just get right off the road when any car at all approaches.

blacksho89: Go look at Ironman race winners, and look at their ages. 40 year olds are faster than 20 year olds. And when you get into ultrarunning (100 miles +), women are minutes away from beating men. Ann Trason has won some ultras outright.
You might want to check your assumptions; they don't agree with the facts. And make sure you polish the brush guard on your Ram this weekend; you'll need it at the grocery store.

You might want to learn how to read.

Maybe some 40 year olds are faster than some *OTHER* 20 year olds, but barring disease, there is NO WAY that the same person is better at 40 than 20.

The guy in the article said it himself.

Why people want to desperately deny that youth is better than oldth, I don't know.

I wonder why the Olympics aren't packed with paunchy balding 40 year olds.

mbillips: You see idiots drafting on each other at 30+ mph, dodging around little kids on tricycles and old couples out for a walk.

Out for a *walk* on a designated bike path?

Here in Montreal there are places where there are pictures of bikes spray-painted on the ground.

At what point can we say we've done enough to tell people it's a bike path?

phaseolus: Traffic law question: Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Starting from a red light or in moving traffic? In moving traffic it should be a "yield" type situation where you aren't supposed to disrupt the movement of bicycle traffic to make your turn. Same as changing lanes in front of a car.

I recently heard about ongoing experiments with "bike boxes" to try to improve safety at red lights. If you tell me where I misplaced my notes I'll transcribe them for you. The idea is you put bikes ahead of cars at the red light. Now Ms. Right Turner On Her Cell Phone is going to have to look at the pack of bicycles which are in her path. Maybe she will notice them. They didn't work as well as hoped.

phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

The car should move over into the bike lane and treat it like a right turn lane.

phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

Incorrect, in theory. When you're driving a car you should not expect a bike to yield any more than another motorist. Doing this to another motorist is called "cutting them off".

In practice, the bike has to farking yield and may end up going head over handlebars in doing so, like the gentleman in TFA.

ggecko: [www.allfunnies.com image 400x400]

You'd need a deep neutrino scan to see where the bike seat is...

ggecko: [www.allfunnies.com image 400x400]

BunkyBrewman: He might be trolling, but he does have a point. The bicyclist rear-ended the car. He has to prove why he was following to close. The question here is simple; What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

Sounds like a swoop and squat to me

FTA:
Cunningham said a car passed them over a double-yellow line, honked its horn and "buzzed" them.
"It just went flying by as we were starting to go down the hill," said Cunningham, who was at the head of the group. "Then halfway down the hill, all of a sudden he just slammed on the brakes."

Intentional? Only one person knows...

runescorpio: BunkyBrewman: astro716: TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

3/10.  I got halfway through typing a response.

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

Yes, I believe the guy in the car most likely had road rage but from the cyclist's own story, he was passed before they started going downhill which means he was going substantially below the speed limit.  (unless these guys can pedal 45mph up a hill outside Boulder)

/glad the guy wasn't hurt too bad
//and I don't have any reason not to believe the cyclist's story but he is going to have to prove he wasn't following too close (although the motorist is going to be cited for leaving the scene of an accident)
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)

Thing is noone hit the motorist. He wasnt actually in an accident.
I personally do not think cyclists should be on the roads with cars. No insurance for the reckless ones and no visible identification for the ones that cruise through 4 way stops. No lights when all other new vehicles have daytime running lights as a requirement.
I am a commercial driver that has a vehicle that is literally the legal maximum width. Cyclists hopping curbs at lights to get around me essentially barricade moderate traffic at their speed and endanger pedestrians when they get in the middle of them but they do it regularly.
They cut people off with no signals, come past at high speed in heavy traffic when I have a reduced rear visibility vehicle and crowd me.
Screw all cyclists. Make bike paths and go there. 9 years of accident free driving all my most dangerous situations are with cyclists.

People like you should take the bus. That you have a CDL proves that there should be some sort of psych evaluation for all license holders.

But can we all agree that electric scooters don't belong on the bike path?

There's a reason I avoid bike paths in downtown Montreal.

Meh. I ride 17 miles each way in plain old walking shorts. And a tshirt. I look like some south philly goomba riding his bike to his contracting job 'cause he lost his license after his third DUI....

If I rode thru south philly in spandex I'd get my ass kicked. Word.

Last week was a typical week. Rode my usual way, unscathed. I cut thru the construction site at the bottom of Richmond where they're shifting Richmond over and building a new onramp onto I-95. There a long section of new roadbed there, paralleling Richmond, but not connected or open to traffic, separated by dirt and orange traffic barrels, so I was cruising on it, completely separate from traffic, AND STILL some asshole in a van was yelling something at me as he drove by.

Coming back in the afternoon, there were people on the sidewalk in front of the shops at Penn's Landing, so I bailed out into the street (Columbus Blvd., into a bike lane, GOING WITH TRAFFIC!) to go around them. Of course, the usual happened when I venture into traffic. This time it was some numbnut on a crotch rocket decided to blow by me going 60 mph while doing a wheelie. Common event on Columbus, one of the reasons I stick to the sidewalk. If he had screwed up, I would have been dead meat.

One thing that continues to amaze me is all the Hipsters on old school Scwhinn type bikes that ride in traffic listening to Ipods. THAT is suicidal. You need to hear the enemy approaching....

Quantum Apostrophe Why people want to desperately deny that youth is better than oldth, I don't know

If I had to guess, at least in this context, is how often competitive cyclist are still competing and winning in some cases into their 30s, even late 30s and 40s. I think the average age of major event winners are late 20s to early 30s. Young 20s generally do not have the experience or stamina to win yet.

You can argue older is better but peak age is not 40s. Of course traditional sports like football and basketball is a totally different situation, unless you're Teemu Selanne.

Quantum Apostrophe: blacksho89: Go look at Ironman race winners, and look at their ages. 40 year olds are faster than 20 year olds. And when you get into ultrarunning (100 miles +), women are minutes away from beating men. Ann Trason has won some ultras outright.
You might want to check your assumptions; they don't agree with the facts. And make sure you polish the brush guard on your Ram this weekend; you'll need it at the grocery store.

You might want to learn how to read.

Maybe some 40 year olds are faster than some *OTHER* 20 year olds, but barring disease, there is NO WAY that the same person is better at 40 than 20.

The guy in the article said it himself.

Why people want to desperately deny that youth is better than oldth, I don't know.

I wonder why the Olympics aren't packed with paunchy balding 40 year olds.

mbillips: You see idiots drafting on each other at 30+ mph, dodging around little kids on tricycles and old couples out for a walk.

Out for a *walk* on a designated bike path?

Here in Montreal there are places where there are pictures of bikes spray-painted on the ground.

At what point can we say we've done enough to tell people it's a bike path?

Oh. Montreal. Never mind with facts, then, continue with your ignorant snobbery.

mark12A: 13 years now I've been biking thru Philly. No road rage incidents. No injuries. Why? Ride against traffic, stay on the sidewalk as much as you can, don't be a dick when pedestrians are around. Simple. Works. Saved by ass NUMEROUS times.

As a runner, cyclist and driver, I can't stand people like you. It's good to be wary of cars and defer to them whenever possible, but dont break the law and be a dick to everyone else.

Really Twowheeling Tim?  You're going to dump on the guy with the CDL who's driven responsibly for 9 years to earn a living delivering products that you have in your house, all the while taking care to keep inconsiderate cyclists alive?

I was upset when I read the headline as I thought it was someone jogging. When I read the article and realized it was a bicyclists, a smile slowly crept across my face!

I constantly listen and look back for approaching cars, especially near intersections. If I am going straight and car is going to turn right I will slow down and let the car pass, even stop before the intersection. My goal is to do my route and make it home, I don't care how long it takes. I usually slow and move over to let cars pass and will give a friendly wave as drivers slow a bit or move over some as they pass.

Drivers have to use indicators though, the sooner the better, otherwise it looks like you are going to go straight.

I lived in boulder for seven years most of which was up a mountain pass that cyclist really liked to ride. Most were fine, but like drivers, some were idiots. I nearly hit at least 20 cyclists, and the occasional skate boarder, when they flew around blind corners in the on coming traffic lane. The most annoying cyclists are the ones who ride in large groups and then get mad when you pass them. Or the ones who are not in good enough shape to ride the mountain they are exhausted, not paying attention, and are weaving back and forth with every pedal push.

The laws in boulder are wired when it comes to cyclist and cars. Bikes are supposed to ride as far to the right as they can, cars are to give three feet when passing, this makes it technically illegal to pass a bike on double yellow one lane roads. Bikes are also considered vehicles and have to abide by all traffic laws, and dismount on sidewalks. This means impeding the flow of traffic is a ticketable offence, but I've never seen a ticket given to a cyclist for this.

If both cyclists and cars abide by the general rules of the road and are courteous to each other things would be fine. Instead cyclist kick and whip chains at cars, and drivers run cyclist off the road. It's a fight the cyclist won't win. I would rather be alive then right.. The saying I lived by in boulder as a cyclist and pedestrian. I had friend get hit two times while riding a bike in boulder, both times he thought he was in the right but it ended up being his fault. He is a big guy and broke his collarbone and totaled a metro in one of the wreaks.

Zeno-25: Cyclists... the scourge of anyone trying to get anywhere on time using the roads. This guy's luck probably caught up with him after blocking the road for many, many other people and enjoying it.

You mean the scourge of those who only give themselves a marginal amount of time to get where they want to be rather than ample time?

I always give myself an hour to ride my bike to work though it only takes thirty five minutes or so. I'm never late, even when I get a flat tire.

Maybe you should get your slovenly ass out of the car more often.

I read the whole article and what a gem! No contact between the cyclist and the car, meaning the vehicle isn't at fault and no tickets will be issued.

Learn how to use your damn brakes correctly! How hilarious, flipping yourself over the bars because you braked too hard! I love it

"Yeah I think he had some road rage," Cunningham said. "I don't know if he got angry cause it was a large group or what."

I'm guessing the other side of the story starts there.

Quantum Apostrophe: Maybe some 40 year olds are faster than some *OTHER* 20 year olds, but barring disease, there is NO WAY that the same person is better at 40 than 20.

Define better.

The 20 yr old is going to be bale to recover, and gain muscle faster.

If they regularly exercised from their 20's on there is a good chance they will be stronger and or faster (depending on their exercise).

I do a lot of local 10k's and would routinely win or place when I was in my 20's.  I got faster in my 30's but no longer placed as everyone who did them got faster.  Generally the 40's are the fastest group.

WRXminion: I lived in boulder for seven years most of which was up a mountain pass that cyclist really liked to ride. Most were fine, but like drivers, some were idiots. I nearly hit at least 20 cyclists, and the occasional skate boarder, when they flew around blind corners in the on coming traffic lane. The most annoying cyclists are the ones who ride in large groups and then get mad when you pass them. Or the ones who are not in good enough shape to ride the mountain they are exhausted, not paying attention, and are weaving back and forth with every pedal push.

The laws in boulder are wired when it comes to cyclist and cars. Bikes are supposed to ride as far to the right as they can, cars are to give three feet when passing, this makes it technically illegal to pass a bike on double yellow one lane roads. Bikes are also considered vehicles and have to abide by all traffic laws, and dismount on sidewalks. This means impeding the flow of traffic is a ticketable offence, but I've never seen a ticket given to a cyclist for this.

If both cyclists and cars abide by the general rules of the road and are courteous to each other things would be fine. Instead cyclist kick and whip chains at cars, and drivers run cyclist off the road. It's a fight the cyclist won't win. I would rather be alive then right.. The saying I lived by in boulder as a cyclist and pedestrian. I had friend get hit two times while riding a bike in boulder, both times he thought he was in the right but it ended up being his fault. He is a big guy and broke his collarbone and totaled a metro in one of the wreaks.

CRS 42-4-1005(d) allows  passing a bicyclist moving the same direction and in the same lane when such movement can be made in safety and without interfering with, impeding, or endangering other traffic lawfully using the highway.

shaddix: I read the whole article and what a gem! No contact between the cyclist and the car, meaning the vehicle isn't at fault and no tickets will be issued.

Learn how to use your damn brakes correctly! How hilarious, flipping yourself over the bars because you braked too hard! I love it

So if one motorist runs the other off the road, but there is no contact between the cars, it's all cool then?

Sounds like the cyclist is mostly at fault in the article. If the motorist passing them was acting at all antagonistic, it's time to slow down and avoid that car like the plague. Just because someone may have the right of the road doesnt mean they have the right to be oblivious to changing conditions of the road. As others have stated in thread, in the battle car vs bicycle, the bicycle will always lose.

mark12A:One thing that continues to amaze me is all the Hipsters on old school Scwhinn type bikes that ride in traffic listening to Ipods. THAT is suicidal. You need to hear the enemy approaching....

I figure every asshole out there running or riding with ear buds in is completely insane.  They're afraid to be alone with their own thoughts so they drown them out.

Zeno-25: Cyclists... the scourge of anyone trying to get anywhere on time using the roads. This guy's luck probably caught up with him after blocking the road for many, many other people and enjoying it.

Leave more time. If you can't get to where you need to be without a guarantee of being able to go the speed limit or higher all the time, then fark you. It's nice to be able to justify grievous bodily harm by inventing a vendetta in the cyclist's head.

wichitaleaf: If you cannot keep up with the pace of traffic you do not belong on the road.

Just like a slow car, they cause massive problems in traffic also.

No. They don't. It's only a problem to those drivers that can't stand being delayed a few seconds. The impatience of the average driver is immense. Add bike hate to the equation and they just can't stand the idea of having to slow down for anyone or anything.

Anyone who mentions what a cyclist is wearing is a complete asshat.

blacksho89: Oh. Montreal. Never mind with facts, then, continue with your ignorant snobbery.

That's an interesting argument. Care to expound?

I'd like to know what's ignorant, and what's snobbery.

Obviously the educational system here is lacking.

liam76: Define better.

The 20 yr old is going to be bale to recover, and gain muscle faster.

I'd say that's "better". The 20s will also be lighter, learn faster, have less AGE molecules in their body.

Less wrinkles, more hair.

Better hearing, eyesight.

Is it really that hard to believe that being younger is better?

As a runner, cyclist and driver, I can't stand people like you. It's good to be wary of cars and defer to them whenever possible, but dont break the law and be a dick to everyone else.

13 years. Oh, and by the way, 13 YEARS. 13 years I've been doing this, and if I was a dick I would have gotten my ass kicked loooong time ago by the good, but rough hewn, citizens of Philly. If what I was doing was dangerous, I would have been tagged years ago.

Is simples: Stay away from pedestrians when they're on sidewalks. And riding against traffic takes up NOT ONE SINGLE SQUARE INCH more space than riding with traffic. As for the oncoming motorists having less reaction time, that's OK, because now I HAVE REACTION TIME, unlike when I'm not facing traffic. So now I'm not completely vulnerable to an endless stream of total strangers coming up behind me.

squegeebooo: phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

The car should move over into the bike lane and treat it like a right turn lane.

I encounter this every day on the way to work, enough so that I actually took the time to look up the laws.  This is correct.

SoupJohnB: As some Farker put it in an unrelated thread, you can't drink poison and expect the other person to die.

Unfortunately, that seems to be exactly what the Millenial generation expects, and even demands. Otherwise It's Not Fair and We Must Have Justice For (insert name of latest an hero).

Why hasn't he been cited for reckless driving yet?

mark12A: As a runner, cyclist and driver, I can't stand people like you. It's good to be wary of cars and defer to them whenever possible, but dont break the law and be a dick to everyone else.

13 years. Oh, and by the way, 13 YEARS. 13 years I've been doing this, and if I was a dick I would have gotten my ass kicked loooong time ago by the good, but rough hewn, citizens of Philly. If what I was doing was dangerous, I would have been tagged years ago.

Is simples: Stay away from pedestrians when they're on sidewalks. And riding against traffic takes up NOT ONE SINGLE SQUARE INCH more space than riding with traffic. As for the oncoming motorists having less reaction time, that's OK, because now I HAVE REACTION TIME, unlike when I'm not facing traffic. So now I'm not completely vulnerable to an endless stream of total strangers coming up behind me.

Since the bike is a vehicle, you are violating the law by driving against the flow of traffic and you put cyclists who do follow the law in an awkward and dangerous position when you pass them. If Philly is really that violent I'm sure more than one rider has wanted to knock you off your bike, but that would probably risk them getting injured too.

As for riding in the sidewalk, it is illegal in your city, but I'm sure people dont care if dont actually share it with pedestrians. It's still stupid. If a person stays deep in the bike lane and is a cautious rider, it's safer to follow traffic laws because it makes your behavior predictable.

Yogimus: How does one "Suffer" from road rage? It isn't cancer.  It is a voluntary state of being.

This. Suffer implies no fault. Should be douchnozzle with road rage

Quantum Apostrophe: I'd say that's "better". The 20s will also be lighter, learn faster, have less AGE molecules in their body.

farking age molecules!

Quantum Apostrophe: Is it really that hard to believe that being younger is better

If that is your definition of better, no.

But in a thread about a guy doing an iron-man tri, discussing biking, etc speed would be a sensible measuring stick.

liam76: farking age molecules!

Tell me about it. The human body basically cooks itself sous vide for decades.

liam76: But in a thread about a guy doing an iron-man tri, discussing biking, etc speed would be a sensible measuring stick.

Then why is the guy in TFA bemoaning that at 40 it's pretty much over for him?

Maybe you should email him.

Do dirtbag biker was:
Following to close.
Traveling too fast for conditions.

Ticket that SOB.

kokomo61: There are asses on both sides of the rider / car equation, but in every case, the cyclist will lose. Yeah, we have a right to ride on the roads. No, cars don't have the right to put cyclists in danger. Still, the odds are stacked in favor of the driver. I try to minimize my time on the road to ones with wide shoulders just for safety.

(Not So ) CSB....

I was bike commuting to work on a paved bike trail that has several street level crossings. Stopped at one, and traffic on the right stopped. I held up my hand to acknowledge the driver, and waited for the left traffic to stop. Since it was a 2-lane street, and both sides were stopped, I clipped in and rolled forward. No sooner did I clear the car on the right, than a guy from three cars back came flying around the cars, passing on the right, and flipped me up on the hood like Mannix. I went up the hood, smacked my ribs on the A pillar of the car, and slid back down to the pavement still clipped into the pedals.

The guy at first said, "I didn't see him." Well, yeah - when you pass a line of stopped cars on the right at a highly marked crosswalk, you're not likely to see someone actually IN the crosswalk.

He initially pled 'not guilty' to the citation, probably hoping that the officer wouldn't show. They did, as did I. At first, he said he was trying to park the car (at 25MPH). He then said he was looking of a museum (in Vienna, Va....where there are no museums within 10 miles). THEN, he said that I ran out in front of him, using the 'spandex' defense (that all cyclists are dangerous)....When it was my turn, I just handed the judge a printout of my GPS/HR monitor data.....which showed my exact location, slowing my speed, heart rate and pedal cadence approaching the intersection...then being stopped for 45 seconds before moving forward at 5 MPH......then suddenly moving sideways at 20MPH.

Guilty as charged. Took three years to settle out for my bike, doctor visits and X-rays/MRI's and PT (thanks to bruised ribs, a hip injury and a cracked vertebrae). Not fun at all.

What do you use for GPS that gives such accurate results?

Quantum Apostrophe: Then why is the guy in TFA bemoaning that at 40 it's pretty much over for him?

Because he is a whiny douche?

phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

Problem is the speeds. If the car and bike are both stopped, then I would yeild to the bike as a car driver.
But if the bike is overtaking in the bike lane, I think the bike should yield. it may not be the law, but it's the smart thing - Bikes are hard enough to see, and if you are overtaking in his blind spot, you're asking for trouble assuming he's going to spot you.

If the car is overtaking, he's being a jerk. Slow up for your turn anyway, and stay behind the bike.

Shang-High: I just "buzzed" a bicyclist riding half of the way into the road, when there was a good 6 feet to his right for biking (and bike lane markings).  Sorry, I'm not going to cross the double yellow lines into oncoming traffic, "share the road" works both ways.

That makes you both assholes. Congratulations.

liam76: Quantum Apostrophe: Then why is the guy in TFA bemoaning that at 40 it's pretty much over for him?

Because he is a whiny douche?

Oh I see. Just discard contrary opinions. Just remember to let fresh air into your bubble regularly.

If 76 refers to your birth year, you have some rude awakening ahead, in just a few years... It's downhill from here, and very rapidly at that.

Maybe if we can figure out how to clear out AGE molecules, aging wouldn't be such a problem.

ggecko: [www.allfunnies.com image 400x400]

It should be illegal to make certain types of clothing in certain sizes.

I've had motorists do the exact same thing to me (pull into the bike lane and then slam on the brakes). Fortunately I've always managed to stop in time. Since I'm in Fark's favorite state of Florida I generally expect this sort of behavior.

/always stays as far to the right as possible and stops at traffic lights
/rides alone or in a small group that rides single-file
/loves cars and bikes

Shang-High: I just "buzzed" a bicyclist riding half of the way into the road, when there was a good 6 feet to his right for biking (and bike lane markings).  Sorry, I'm not going to cross the double yellow lines into oncoming traffic, "share the road" works both ways.

If a cyclist pushes all the way into the middle of the road, there's probably a good reason for it. There might be gravel or debris on the side, the road might be torn up over there, or there might be parked cars that create a 'door zone' you have to avoid. Cyclists typically don't ride in the middle of the road if they don't need to.

In my experience, 2/3 of bike lanes are unusable as places to ride due to being too narrow, too close to parked cars, too full of gravel and trash, too slanted, too uneven, or too torn up. They make you harder to see as well. I kind of wish they wouldn't make them; just make the road a bit wider with a good shoulder and have cyclists ride in the lane. It's actually safer to ride in the lane because drivers are more likely to see you there.

Quantum Apostrophe: liam76: farking age molecules!

Tell me about it. The human body basically cooks itself sous vide for decades.

liam76: But in a thread about a guy doing an iron-man tri, discussing biking, etc speed would be a sensible measuring stick.

Then why is the guy in TFA bemoaning that at 40 it's pretty much over for him?

Maybe you should email him.

He competes in the Pro class. After he hits forty it is just about over for him: even at 39 he is at a huge disadvantage. He'll still be able to compete, and likely win, the master's age group but the purses aren't as big so he'll need a day job probably working as a coach or open his own Tri shop in the area.

johnny queso: Shang-High: I just "buzzed" a bicyclist riding half of the way into the road, when there was a good 6 feet to his right for biking (and bike lane markings).  Sorry, I'm not going to cross the double yellow lines into oncoming traffic, "share the road" works both ways.

That makes you both assholes. Congratulations.

In Boise the driver could be charged with a misdomeaner

foo monkey: What do you use for GPS that gives such accurate results?

Garmin Edge 305 - since upgraded to an Edge 500. Sample data image below:

Like other GPS's, it's only accurate to within a few feet....but it DOES show speed, altitude, cadence, heart rate (and does averages, max, etc.) It showed my entire route up to that point, including all intersections, and how much time I stopped, etc. owed my location at that intersection, stopped for nearly a full minute, as well as the approach, where I coasted, stopped pedaling, slowed and stopped, with my HR falling the whole time.  You can get a watch-based GPS for a little over $100. A bike mounted one for 2X that or so. The only other thing I wish I had on a bike commute would be a GoPro Hero. look what i can do OnlyM3: Do dirtbag biker was: Following to close. Traveling too fast for conditions. Ticket that SOB. So, when you're driving, and some road raging fellow motorist cuts you off and brake checks you, it's still your fault if you rear end him? Even though he was intentionally trying to cause an accident? Publikwerks: phaseolus: Traffic law question: Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight. Bike yields to car, correct? Problem is the speeds. If the car and bike are both stopped, then I would yeild to the bike as a car driver. But if the bike is overtaking in the bike lane, I think the bike should yield. it may not be the law, but it's the smart thing - Bikes are hard enough to see, and if you are overtaking in his blind spot, you're asking for trouble assuming he's going to spot you. If the car is overtaking, he's being a jerk. Slow up for your turn anyway, and stay behind the bike. If you're catching up to traffic stopped at a light when you're on a bicycle, and you see a car with a right turn signal on, the only sensible thing to do is to yield (stop behind them). And if they don't have a signal on, but are edging to the right, just assume they are a slob who doesn't use their signals, and still yield. And if you're cruising along at twenty plus MPH on your bicycle, catching up to a long line of cars stopped at a light, slow down. Sometimes there will be a car that does not have their signal on, has not edged over to the right, and has had an opportunity to do a legal right turn on a red for sometime (no cross traffic) who will instantly make a right turn when the light changes. I had that happen to me once - I think the guy in the truck saw me coming in his side view mirror, and decided he would try to make me crash. But I was able to turn inside of him. I give cyclists wide berth when able, and slow to pass when I can't. There's a few jerks out there pedaling, but by and large they're a decent group. Besides, I appreciate that they're not burning fossil fuel and getting a little exercise as I drive by. /fat. zinny: I give cyclists wide berth when able, and slow to pass when I can't. There's a few jerks out there pedaling, but by and large they're a decent group. Besides, I appreciate that they're not burning fossil fuel and getting a little exercise as I drive by. /fat. Um, are you new to the internet? You post exudes absolutely no toughness, and doesn't nothing to infuriate anyone. You're supposed to brag about how you just harassed a cyclist. Wait someone just did that--how you just killed a cyclist. And you don't care, man, cause he looked like an illegal anyways. That's FARKing. /Also, very reasonable post //I drive the same way around cyclists ///Had to stop cycling here because of the real life psychopaths on the road On July 2008, Thompson was driving a sedan in Brentwood when he came across two bicyclists. Thompson pulled out in front of the two bicyclists, and slammed the brakes, causing the two bicyclists to hit the back of the car. One of the bicyclists Ron Peterson, crashed through the back of the Infiniti. Peterson's nose was broken, and he suffered several other injuries. The other bicyclist fell to the pavement, and was also injured. Thompson went on trial in a case that was watched around the country. He was found guilty, and last week sentenced to 5 years in prison. The sentence came after much support from bicyclists around the country. The court received more than 270 messages calling for a tough sentence on the doctor. The two bicyclists had also pleaded on bicycle forums calling on bicyclists to write in to show their support for bicyclists in Los Angeles, who are now involved in increasing confrontations with motorists. Letters of support have poured in from as far as the UK and China. The judge said that he did not consider the messages of support that called for a stronger sentence, while delivering his decision. But he expressed his belief that Thompson has showed no remorse in his behavior after the accident. During the trial, Thompson had said that he and other residents in Brentwood were angry with bicyclists, because they frequently broke traffic rules. Why he choose to take that anger and misplaced frustration on two innocent bicyclists who were following traffic rules and riding safely, is not clear. Los Angeles Doctor in Road Rage Bicycle Accident Sentenced to 5 years in Prison zinny: I give cyclists wide berth when able, and slow to pass when I can't. There's a few jerks out there pedaling, but by and large they're a decent group. Besides, I appreciate that they're not burning fossil fuel and getting a little exercise as I drive by. /fat. This is an outrage, you can't possibly come into a bike thread with that attitude. There are standards to uphold. Quantum Apostrophe: liam76: Quantum Apostrophe: Then why is the guy in TFA bemoaning that at 40 it's pretty much over for him? Because he is a whiny douche? Oh I see. Just discard contrary opinions. Just remember to let fresh air into your bubble regularly. If 76 refers to your birth year, you have some rude awakening ahead, in just a few years... It's downhill from here, and very rapidly at that. Maybe if we can figure out how to clear out AGE molecules, aging wouldn't be such a problem. As someone you'd consider old I'm cracking up reading your posts about being old sucking. It does. I hope you live a long life ;) Something you might not be aware of is that age has advantages in the more difficult endurance sports due to increased pain management. You become mentally tougher and are able to make your body do things you couldn't when it was younger and stronger. In cycling it is well known to fear the old men. They are retired so can train all day and they have mastered pain control. I've seen guys in their 70s post times equal to the fastest 20-30s guys but only at time trial distances. Quantum Apostrophe: mbillips: You see idiots drafting on each other at 30+ mph, dodging around little kids on tricycles and old couples out for a walk. Out for a *walk* on a designated bike path? What part of "multi-use path" do you not understand? It's not a bike path, it's a walking/cycling/running/skating trail, and labeled as such. The Googles Do Nothing: /When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right. Lane position is something that comes up a lot when I'm teaching a Basic Rider's Course (for motorcycles). One concern I have with a far-right lane position is this: You get the moron that wants to pass you and either: 1. Doesn't get over far enough and clips you, or 2. Sees and oncoming car and figures he can squeeze by you without getting over and clips you. I usually ride in the left or middle of the lane: that way if someone wants to pass: it discourages the second type, and gives you space to get over for the first type. phaseolus: Traffic law question: Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight. Bike yields to car, correct? I believe the law of physics trumps traffic law in this situation Smeggy Smurf: mark12A:One thing that continues to amaze me is all the Hipsters on old school Scwhinn type bikes that ride in traffic listening to Ipods. THAT is suicidal. You need to hear the enemy approaching.... I figure every asshole out there running or riding with ear buds in is completely insane. They're afraid to be alone with their own thoughts so they drown them out. I had a cop stop me in Osaka once for listening to headphones on a bicycle. Different culture there. Bikes rule the road and sidewalk too, due to sheer numbers. Quantum Apostrophe: liam76: Quantum Apostrophe: Then why is the guy in TFA bemoaning that at 40 it's pretty much over for him? Because he is a whiny douche? Oh I see. Just discard contrary opinions. Try taking your own advice. Or maybe show up to some non pro endurance races. Quantum Apostrophe: If 76 refers to your birth year, you have some rude awakening ahead, in just a few years... It's downhill from here, and very rapidly at that It is in the ballpark. It has been downhill for a number of things since 30. But I am still putting up faster times in races (if I actively train) than I used to. Quantum Apostrophe: But can we all agree that electric scooters don't belong on the bike path? There's a reason I avoid bike paths in downtown Montreal. No we can't agree....Let the scooters ride 4 or 5 abreast at 5mph and see how many of the bikers get a taste of road rage So if one motorist runs the other off the road, but there is no contact between the cars, it's all cool then? Without witnesses, yes. Nothing you can do. If there are witnesses or the driver confesses, depends on the situation. My ex-girlfriend ran a car off the road by making an unsafe lane change. She stopped to help and got a ticket. If she kept going she might have gotten away clean. In my area a bicyclist got crushed under a rear wheel of a truck. Driver kept going. Grand jury refused to indict. It was likely the driver never knew he hit anything. The bicycle was to the right of the truck. Fark_Guy_Rob: Mostly unrelated story - but early last year I was training for a 10k run. I was out for a run, down a road I hadn't been on before - it was really crowded though (busy city here) and I couldn't run on the sidewalk. But there was a bicycle lane that was being *very lightly* used. So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane. Cyclists are constantly riding with cars. Cyclists are smaller and slower, and they constantly complain about how a**hole drivers don't give them space or treat them like they belong. Seeing that I was slower than them, and without a bicycle, I expected that they would be understanding. That they would give me plenty of space, and wait until it was safe to pass me. Sure, I can't run as fast as a cyclist, but a cyclist can't cycle as fast as car. If they expect cars to slow down and go their speed until they can safely pass - certainly, they wouldn't begrudge doing the same to me. Right? Apparently, I was wrong. Yay for double standards! From a traffic law standpoint, yes, you were wrong. Fallout Zone: squegeebooo: phaseolus: Traffic law question: Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight. Bike yields to car, correct? The car should move over into the bike lane and treat it like a right turn lane. I encounter this every day on the way to work, enough so that I actually took the time to look up the laws. This is correct. Yes it is, but from the description it sounds like the road markings at this particular intersection are wrong. I cant speak for everywhere, but around here at least there arent any bike lanes on roads that dont also have parking lanes. Approaching intersections, the bike lane becomes dotted and cars are supposed to move over the bike lane into the parking lane which has become a turn lane at the end of the block to make a right hand turn. Repo Man: Publikwerks: phaseolus: Traffic law question: Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight. Bike yields to car, correct? Problem is the speeds. If the car and bike are both stopped, then I would yeild to the bike as a car driver. But if the bike is overtaking in the bike lane, I think the bike should yield. it may not be the law, but it's the smart thing - Bikes are hard enough to see, and if you are overtaking in his blind spot, you're asking for trouble assuming he's going to spot you. If the car is overtaking, he's being a jerk. Slow up for your turn anyway, and stay behind the bike. If you're catching up to traffic stopped at a light when you're on a bicycle, and you see a car with a right turn signal on, the only sensible thing to do is to yield (stop behind them). And if they don't have a signal on, but are edging to the right, just assume they are a slob who doesn't use their signals, and still yield. And if you're cruising along at twenty plus MPH on your bicycle, catching up to a long line of cars stopped at a light, slow down. Sometimes there will be a car that does not have their signal on, has not edged over to the right, and has had an opportunity to do a legal right turn on a red for sometime (no cross traffic) who will instantly make a right turn when the light changes. I had that happen to me once - I think the guy in the truck saw me coming in his side view mirror, and decided he would try to make me crash. But I was able to turn inside of him. The car should blend into the bike lane for a right hand turn. If the car isn't in the bike lane, it's on them for turning across a lane of traffic and causing an accident. Just like a cyclist making a left turn needs to merge over into the left turn lane for left turns, instead of just turning from a bike lane. That said, if you think someone is turning right, and they're not in the bike lane, you might want to consider yielding. Being technically correct, while the best correct, isn't worth risking a hospital visit. If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close! Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race. He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!). Get off your high horse, and off the road. For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there. Bicycles being moving vehicles, subject to the same laws as motor vehicles in most states in the U.S., and having been hit 9 times in 3 years, 4 in my current neighborhood, once ending up on the hood of a guys car for 2 blocks (and when he figured it out, stopped fast, knocking me off, then told me that he didn't need to give me insurance info because I appeared fine, and the police took 3 hours to get there)- I find this funny. Not just because I've been hit twice by people on bicycles, including once last month as some hipster woman ignored a stop sign and ran over my right foot (witnesses screamed and screamed at her to stop), but because the guy seems like a huge cry baby, douchebag. If you're on a moving vehicle you should operate your vehicle defensively, not aggressively, which is how this fellow was riding his bike. The assumption that someone *has* to look out for you doesn't even apply to pedestrians (even if it IS the law, reality stands). I walk, so I risk getting hit by morons. Someone in my neighborhood was killed three blocks from me: a pedestrian, hit and run, but they caught the guy a day later (go go HPD slackers). He took the same risk willing me. We walk defensively. We'll jump out of the way. We're subject to road rage from drivers- they pull over, threaten us, chase us, run over us. This guy was being a dick, maybe he'll be more aware next time. Carth: After he hits forty it is just about over for him: I know. I'm just saying that there is no way that anyone at 40 is in better shape than at 20. It's just so much delusional BS. liam76: Try taking your own advice. Or maybe show up to some non pro endurance races. Why? I'm 41. I'd be dead in the first kilometer. liam76: It has been downhill for a number of things since 30. But I am still putting up faster times in races (if I actively train) than I used to. There we go. That wasn't so hard was it? So, are you going to give some money to SENS? I think aging is a program, a disease, and if we have enough knowledge it'll be controlled like diabetes. kokomo61: foo monkey: What do you use for GPS that gives such accurate results? Garmin Edge 305 - since upgraded to an Edge 500. Sample data image below: Like other GPS's, it's only accurate to within a few feet....but it DOES show speed, altitude, cadence, heart rate (and does averages, max, etc.) It showed my entire route up to that point, including all intersections, and how much time I stopped, etc. owed my location at that intersection, stopped for nearly a full minute, as well as the approach, where I coasted, stopped pedaling, slowed and stopped, with my HR falling the whole time. You can get a watch-based GPS for a little over$100. A bike mounted one for 2X that or so. The only other thing I wish I had on a bike commute would be a GoPro Hero.

Bit fancier than Strava on my iPhone.

Quantum Apostrophe: There we go. That wasn't so hard was it?

No.  And I never had a problem with that sentiment, nor did anything I said counter it.

But when you say dumb things like this,

Quantum Apostrophe: I'm just saying that there is no way that anyone at 40 is in better shape than at 20

you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Quantum Apostrophe: Carth: After he hits forty it is just about over for him:

I know. I'm just saying that there is no way that anyone at 40 is in better shape than at 20. It's just so much delusional BS.

What if you are morbidly obese at age 20 and then take up a sport at a later age? I was in terrible shape in my teens and 20s but I probably qualify as an athlete now. My boyfriend runs a lot faster in his 30's than he did in high school running sports because he had terrible coaching back then. Just because someone is younger doesn't make them in better shape or a better athlete.

The main limiting factor is that people who train to their peak performance throughout their development can lose a bit of speed as they age or they can just tear up their body with the sport and gradually lose performance due to injuries. To generalize beyond that is just not correct.

blacksho89: WRXminion: I lived in boulder for seven years most of which was up a mountain pass that cyclist really liked to ride. Most were fine, but like drivers, some were idiots. I nearly hit at least 20 cyclists, and the occasional skate boarder, when they flew around blind corners in the on coming traffic lane. The most annoying cyclists are the ones who ride in large groups and then get mad when you pass them. Or the ones who are not in good enough shape to ride the mountain they are exhausted, not paying attention, and are weaving back and forth with every pedal push.

The laws in boulder are wired when it comes to cyclist and cars. Bikes are supposed to ride as far to the right as they can, cars are to give three feet when passing, this makes it technically illegal to pass a bike on double yellow one lane roads. Bikes are also considered vehicles and have to abide by all traffic laws, and dismount on sidewalks. This means impeding the flow of traffic is a ticketable offence, but I've never seen a ticket given to a cyclist for this.

If both cyclists and cars abide by the general rules of the road and are courteous to each other things would be fine. Instead cyclist kick and whip chains at cars, and drivers run cyclist off the road. It's a fight the cyclist won't win. I would rather be alive then right.. The saying I lived by in boulder as a cyclist and pedestrian. I had friend get hit two times while riding a bike in boulder, both times he thought he was in the right but it ended up being his fault. He is a big guy and broke his collarbone and totaled a metro in one of the wreaks.

CRS 42-4-1005(d) allows  passing a bicyclist moving the same direction and in the same lane when such movement can be made in safety and without interfering with, impeding, or endangering other traffic lawfully using the highway.

You familiar with bill 148 which passed in 2009?? Must have three feet to pass.

Also the whole "without interfering with, impeding, or endangering other traffic lawfully using the highway" means you can't break a law: cross a double yellow, speed, or drive recklessly to pass a ciclist.

whfolsom4: If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close!

Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race.  He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

This is such a moronic talking point. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists also drive a motor vehicles, and pay registration fees and gasoline taxes. You might be an upstanding citizen, but many motorists fail to obey traffic laws, and even drive drunk. When your fellow motorists break traffic laws and drive drunk they can quite easily kill you! But you are worried about sharing the road with a 170 pound rider on a twenty four pound bicycle?

TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

IIRC TFA said that the driver passed and and then changed into their lane immediately before the sudden, hard deceleration.

Look, I realize everyone wants to be an Ironman, but seriously, if you're getting in the way of motorists while you're training for it, it's clearly your fault.  You should never be studying advanced physics in traffic, it's just irresponsible.

Ned Overend, Tinker Juarez go 1-2 on Mount Washington as Marti Shea defends 2010 crown

A pair of 50-somethings - Ned Overend and Tinker Juarez - went one-two on Saturday at the 39th Mount Washington Auto Road Bicycle Hillclimb in Pinkham Notch, New Hampshire.

Overend, who was celebrating his 56th birthday, pulled away less than two miles into the 7.6-mile ascent and rode to the victory in 55 minutes and three seconds.

Juarez, 50, took the runner-up spot just over a minute later with Timothy Ahearn third at 3:19.

"It's good to win," said Overend as he cooled off at the summit. "I wanted to win, and I wouldn't travel this far for it if I didn't think I had a chance. Comparing past times with the others, I figured I should be the favorite, but I'm not getting any younger!"

It was the second consecutive runner-up finish for Juarez, who finished second to Nico Toutenhoofd in 2010.

These guys are outliers, but they are a demonstration about what happens when you speak in sweeping generalities.

BunkyBrewman: astro716: TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

3/10.  I got halfway through typing a response.

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

Yes, I believe the guy in the car most likely had road rage but from the cyclist's own story, he was passed before they started going downhill which means he was going substantially below the speed limit. (unless these guys can pedal 45mph up a hill outside Boulder)

/glad the guy wasn't hurt too bad
//and I don't have any reason not to believe the cyclist's story but he is going to have to prove he wasn't following too close (although the motorist is going to be cited for leaving the scene of an accident)
///let me tell you about the time someone did a "swoop and squat" on me in Vegas... guess who was at fault?  (not them)

Why is it not possible that the vehicle was speeding when he passed? Not saying that the cyclists were going the full 45, but getting passed is hardly proof of going "too slow".

Carth: Fark_Guy_Rob: Mostly unrelated story - but early last year I was training for a 10k run.  I was out for a run, down a road I hadn't been on before - it was really crowded though (busy city here) and I couldn't run on the sidewalk.  But there was a bicycle lane that was being *very lightly* used.

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.

Cyclists are constantly riding with cars.  Cyclists are smaller and slower, and they constantly complain about how a**hole drivers don't give them space or treat them like they belong.  Seeing that I was slower than them, and without a bicycle, I expected that they would be understanding.  That they would give me plenty of space, and wait until it was safe to pass me.  Sure, I can't run as fast as a cyclist, but a cyclist can't cycle as fast as car.  If they expect cars to slow down and go their speed until they can safely pass - certainly, they wouldn't begrudge doing the same to me.  Right?

Apparently, I was wrong.  Yay for double standards!

In most areas cyclists have a legal right to the road and are allowed to 'take the lane; as necessary.

Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'

The one "slowing down to their speed until they could safely pass" in that scenario should have been you with respect to the other pedestrians on the sidewalk.

WinoRhino: Publikwerks: I'm no fan of road rage assholes, but to be fair, Mr Ironman didn't hit the car. He misjudged if he could get around the car, had to stop too fast, and flipped over the handlebars.  He was operating his bike too fast then. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, then you are going too fast.

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

You know, that's actually a pretty good point. He did say his first choice was to try to get around the car. I'm not defending the motorist, but it's a valid argument.

It's just the same thing that I see everytiem a car encounters something that is way too slow way too soon. They swerve to the shoulder to prevent impact is they might not be able to stop in time. It's an emergency maneuver. Being forced to consider doing so is in no way proof that the cyclist did anything wrong. Sounds more like a "swoop and squat" on the drivers behalf-it's the same tactic people use to commit insurance fraud. It's simple, just blow by your victim, enter their lane as close to them as you can, and then hit the breaks hard. Who here thinks they are immune to this?

Yeea, it's THIS thread again.

I've had a whiskey bottle chucked at me while cycling, among other things, and that was on a road with 8' paved shoulders on both sides, specifically to give cyclists several feet from high-speed traffic.  Something of that mass traveling 30MPH could be fatal, but I'm sure the Good Ol' Boy who threw it never considered that.  I've had motorcyclists yell at me as they pass; you'd think they would be more understanding.

Using the roads is like some vehicular food chain:  the drivers hate the motorcyclists, both hate the bicyclists, all three hate the joggers, and everyone hates the gaggle of women wammering it up on the sidewalk, oblivious to all but their gossip.

Repo Man: whfolsom4: If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close!

Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race.  He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

This is such a moronic talking point. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists also drive a motor vehicles, and pay registration fees and gasoline taxes. You might be an upstanding citizen, but many motorists fail to obey traffic laws, and even drive drunk. When your fellow motorists break traffic laws and drive drunk they can quite easily kill you! But you are worried about sharing the road with a 170 pound rider on a twenty four pound bicycle?

It's actually not a talking point.  I drive past bike lanes and bike-related signage every day.  I know which one of us paid for it, and it wasn't the guy on the bike.  And since a family member almost hit a cyclist riding on a 2-lane highway after dark, without lights or reflectors, yeah, it worries me.

Chaghatai: WinoRhino: Publikwerks: I'm no fan of road rage assholes, but to be fair, Mr Ironman didn't hit the car. He misjudged if he could get around the car, had to stop too fast, and flipped over the handlebars.  He was operating his bike too fast then. If you cannot come to a complete stop safely, then you are going too fast.

If the roles were reversed, and the car ran him over because it couldn't come to a complete stop fast enough, would that then be the bikers fault?

You know, that's actually a pretty good point. He did say his first choice was to try to get around the car. I'm not defending the motorist, but it's a valid argument.

It's just the same thing that I see everytiem a car encounters something that is way too slow way too soon. They swerve to the shoulder to prevent impact is they might not be able to stop in time. It's an emergency maneuver. Being forced to consider doing so is in no way proof that the cyclist did anything wrong. Sounds more like a "swoop and squat" on the drivers behalf-it's the same tactic people use to commit insurance fraud. It's simple, just blow by your victim, enter their lane as close to them as you can, and then hit the breaks hard. Who here thinks they are immune to this?

Well, he'd just finished that bottle off, what else was he supposed to do with it? Can't leave it in the cab, that's for sure!

kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.

whfolsom4: Repo Man: whfolsom4: If he wants to be accorded the same rights and responsibilities as the driver of a motor vehicle, he should be issued a citation for following too close!

Seriously, I feel for the guy, but the highway is no place to train for a bike race.  He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

This is such a moronic talking point. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists also drive a motor vehicles, and pay registration fees and gasoline taxes. You might be an upstanding citizen, but many motorists fail to obey traffic laws, and even drive drunk. When your fellow motorists break traffic laws and drive drunk they can quite easily kill you! But you are worried about sharing the road with a 170 pound rider on a twenty four pound bicycle?

It's actually not a talking point.  I drive past bike lanes and bike-related signage every day.  I know which one of us paid for it, and it wasn't the guy on the bike.  And since a family member almost hit a cyclist riding on a 2-lane highway after dark, without lights or reflectors, yeah, it worries me.

There is no way that you could know this, unless you know the person personally, and know their income. For all you know, that person has a collection of cars at home. As for your family member's close call, while it would be upsetting to hit a cyclist while driving a car, it would likely be lethal for the cyclist. Under the described circumstances, there is almost no way the motorist would get in trouble for the accident, unless they were drunk or driving recklessly.

mbillips: Carth: BunkyBrewman:

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

The bike at the same speed takes longer, definitely. Bike brakes suck. Cars weigh a lot more, but they have giant disc brakes gripped hydraulically by ceramic plates, while bikes have itty bits of rubber hand-squeezed onto a tiny strip of often-damp tire rim.

/Have a permanent dent in my left thigh from where a car with old-fashioned door handles passed me and immediately turned right into a parking lot, in the rain, assuming I could stop.

Uhm, I got hydraulic disc brakes on my bike. Less to do with the brakes and more to do with the light frame (and your spandexed ass) not providing enough traction with the road. You skid.

change1211: kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.

That is true, and one more reason that bicycles should not be on the sidewalk, or in the crosswalk. Those are for pedestrians.

ReverendJynxed: mbillips: Carth: BunkyBrewman:

He might be trolling, but he does have a point.  The bicyclist rear-ended the car.  He has to prove why he was following to close.  The question here is simple;  What takes longer to stop when going downhill... a bicycle or a two ton vehicle?

The bike at the same speed takes longer, definitely. Bike brakes suck. Cars weigh a lot more, but they have giant disc brakes gripped hydraulically by ceramic plates, while bikes have itty bits of rubber hand-squeezed onto a tiny strip of often-damp tire rim.

/Have a permanent dent in my left thigh from where a car with old-fashioned door handles passed me and immediately turned right into a parking lot, in the rain, assuming I could stop.

Uhm, I got hydraulic disc brakes on my bike. Less to do with the brakes and more to do with the light frame (and your spandexed ass) not providing enough traction with the road. You skid.

I think the real culprit (the main limiting factor in a bicycle's deceleration) is the tire's contact patch. At least when speaking of modern, quality bicycles with good brakes (caliper or disc) and aluminum rims. Cheap ass bicycles (known in the trades as CABs) have very poor quality caliper brakes, that when combined with the friction characteristics of their cheap ass chromed steel rims, make for very long stopping distances when dry, and even worse when wet.

Fark_Guy_Rob:

So, I decided to run in the bicycle lane.
...
Apparently, I was wrong.  Yay for double standards!

Runner & cyclist here. So wait, you were running in the bike lane, in the DIRECTION of traffic? That's the problem. You should always run into oncoming traffic, so you can see the maniacal/drunk/raging/distracted person that is about to kill you. Bike lanes are perfect for this. And when you see a cyclist coming, you jump out of the lane and onto the border/sidewalk for the 3-4 strides it takes him to pass.

Seriously. I've run thousands of miles in bike lanes and never gotten anything but "good morning" from a cyclist. Have had lots of cars, and a few city buses, try to kill me, though.

The Googles Do Nothing:

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I agree with this part, and I also make it a habit to stop, unclip, and tap the ground with one foot at every stop sign or light. I want to meet my grandkids and see them graduate high school, and I know that coasting through a stop sign is asking for a killin'.

However, I also habitually count the number of cars that coast through stop signs when there's no oncoming traffic, and it's pretty close to 100%. If someone sees me do that on my bike, they think the appropriate punishment is summary execution by any bystander with a motor vehicle. Yet we all see motorists do it every day, and nobody seems to even notice.

elysive: What if you are morbidly obese at age 20 and then take up a sport at a later age?

You'd still be in worse shape than if you had been in shape at 20. Good on you for getting in better shape, but overall, being old sucks.

verbivore: The Googles Do Nothing:

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I agree with this part, and I also make it a habit to stop, unclip, and tap the ground with one foot at every stop sign or light. I want to meet my grandkids and see them graduate high school, and I know that coasting through a stop sign is asking for a killin'.

However, I also habitually count the number of cars that coast through stop signs when there's no oncoming traffic, and it's pretty close to 100%. If someone sees me do that on my bike, they think the appropriate punishment is summary execution by any bystander with a motor vehicle. Yet we all see motorists do it every day, and nobody seems to even notice.

This has become so commonplace that this happens to me from time to time. I'm approaching a four way stop in my car, and another car is also. I arrive at the intersection before the other vehicle, and come to a full stop. Apparently, a full stop confuses the other motorist, who was expecting me to do a rolling stop. So they think I'm yielding the right of way to them!

born_yesterday: The two lane road leaving my office has a recently added bike lane.  For about 4 blocks.  Then it abruptly ends at a crowded stoplight, and is followed by painted signs on the road of a bike and arrows, indicating the bike lane continues further ahead (it doesn't).

That sounds like you're describing the road signs that indicate "bikes may use the full lane" like in the below article/photo:
http://burke.patch.com/groups/alan-youngs-blog/p/bp--bicycling-burke -a nd-beyond-new-bicycles-may-use-f36fa442da2

Meesterjojo: Bicycles being moving vehicles, subject to the same laws as motor vehicles in most states in the U.S., and having been hit 9 times in 3 years, 4 in my current neighborhood, once ending up on the hood of a guys car for 2 blocks (and when he figured it out, stopped fast, knocking me off, then told me that he didn't need to give me insurance info because I appeared fine, and the police took 3 hours to get there)- I find this funny. Not just because I've been hit twice by people on bicycles, including once last month as some hipster woman ignored a stop sign and ran over my right foot (witnesses screamed and screamed at her to stop), but because the guy seems like a huge cry baby, douchebag.

If you're on a moving vehicle you should operate your vehicle defensively, not aggressively, which is how this fellow was riding his bike. The assumption that someone *has* to look out for you doesn't even apply to pedestrians (even if it IS the law, reality stands)...

That's what my father always taught me.
The second piece of wisdom he taught me was that the best defense is a good offense.

verbivore: born_yesterday: The two lane road leaving my office has a recently added bike lane.  For about 4 blocks.  Then it abruptly ends at a crowded stoplight, and is followed by painted signs on the road of a bike and arrows, indicating the bike lane continues further ahead (it doesn't).

That sounds like you're describing the road signs that indicate "bikes may use the full lane" like in the below article/photo:
http://burke.patch.com/groups/alan-youngs-blog/p/bp--bicycling-burke -a nd-beyond-new-bicycles-may-use-f36fa442da2

That's exactly what it is.  I had no idea that that is what it meant, and I bet most of the people around here don't know either.  I sure as hell wouldn't trust that sign as protection versus the idiots around here.

kokomo61: foo monkey: What do you use for GPS that gives such accurate results?

Garmin Edge 305 - since upgraded to an Edge 500. Sample data image below:

[bombaydigital.com image 850x511]

Like other GPS's, it's only accurate to within a few feet....but it DOES show speed, altitude, cadence, heart rate (and does averages, max, etc.) It showed my entire route up to that point, including all intersections, and how much time I stopped, etc. owed my location at that intersection, stopped for nearly a full minute, as well as the approach, where I coasted, stopped pedaling, slowed and stopped, with my HR falling the whole time.  You can get a watch-based GPS for a little over \$100. A bike mounted one for 2X that or so. The only other thing I wish I had on a bike commute would be a GoPro Hero.

I've used a Garmin ForeRunner 305 running watch to show the same type of data to the Austin metro bus company, to show where and when I had to jump off the street for the maniacal bus driver who decided to run me off the road, and where another (on the same route) tried to mow down a cyclist for coasting through a stop. I asked them to correlate it with their logs to verify that bus [number] was at [address] at [time] to verify that I wasn't making it up. I got the standard "your input is important to us, we strive for safety and excellence" form email back, but at the very least they know people have the data to check their homicidal nutjob drivers.

I've never had any issues with bicycle riders. I do always try to keep more than proper distance between myself and motorcycle riders. It really doesn't matter much if they're driving like bats out of hell, or all around assholes. Sometimes a person has to watch out for the more simple minded on the road. It's just the right thing to do. Although my will was tested once when some older guy on a piece of trash motorcycle decided to drive right between myself and another car on a two lane interstate. My passenger ould have reached out and punched them off their trashy motorcycle. Here there are a lot of "Look twice and save a life" signs for motorcycles. Waste of taxpayer money, really, because they shouldn't feel entitled just because they make the mistake of driving an inferior mode of transportation where wrecking almost always means certain death. Not everyone watches out for the simpletons like I do.

whfolsom4: [ ] they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

[snip]

It's actually not a talking point.  I drive past bike lanes and bike-related signage every day.  I know which one of us paid for it, and it wasn't the guy on the bike. And since a family member almost hit a cyclist riding on a 2-lane highway after dark, without lights or reflectors, yeah, it worries me.

ORLY?  I own two houses, two cars, and have a household income solidly in the top 5%. You think I don't pay TAXES??? Because I occasionally ride my bike to work, or ride through the hill country on a beautiful spring day? Because there's some sort of form that cyclists fill out that gives them a giant tax rebate? You really think this?

Repo Man: change1211: kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.

That is true, and one more reason that bicycles should not be on the sidewalk, or in the crosswalk. Those are for pedestrians.

....unless you're talking about a MUP (Multi-Use Path) that's built for bikes, peds and other non-motorized use. The street level crossings are called crosswalks no matter who uses them. In Virginia, (where I live and was hit in a crosswalk), cars are required to yield to 'pedestrians' in a crosswalk. If a bike is using a crosswalk, they're treated as pedestrians, even when they don't dismount.

Prudence and Darwin dictate that you never just go into a crosswalk without looking both ways....which I did...and made sure that traffic was STOPPED in both directions before I moved ahead. I was stopped for 45 seconds waiting for traffic to stop and/or clear before entering the crosswalk.

I was riding on a bike path, not a sidewalk. The yahoo who hit me was either texting or just impatient, but instead of stopping, he decided to go into the parking spaces to get around the 2-3 stopped cars in front of him....and if he wasn't driving a Honda Civic (thank God for sloping hoods), I probably wouldn't be around to type this.

kokomo61: Repo Man: change1211: kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Bikes aren't pedestrians and cars aren't required to yield at pedestrian crosswalks unless you get off your bike and walk.

That is true, and one more reason that bicycles should not be on the sidewalk, or in the crosswalk. Those are for pedestrians.

....unless you're talking about a MUP (Multi-Use Path) that's built for bikes, peds and other non-motorized use. The street level crossings are called crosswalks no matter who uses them. In Virginia, (where I live and was hit in a crosswalk), cars are required to yield to 'pedestrians' in a crosswalk. If a bike is using a crosswalk, they're treated as pedestrians, even when they don't dismount.

Prudence and Darwin dictate that you never just go into a crosswalk without looking both ways....which I did...and made sure that traffic was STOPPED in both directions ...

And yet another reason to avoid MUPs. Leave them for small children, pedestrians, runners, skaters.

Ker_Thwap: I'd love to hear the other side of the story.

I like to imagine it went like this...

I was running late for work, going 5 mph over the speed limit.  As I go around a blind corner these three idiots dressed in spandex were peddling 3 wide across the entire lane.  I swerved, honked and had to swerve back for oncoming traffic.  As one of them flipped me the bird, he lost control and wiped out.  It was hilarious.

CSB, I would've laughed my ass off too. YDI, stupid bikers!

If the guys FTA were doing that, I would immediately stop feeling bad for the guy. There is ZERO excuse to be walking, biking, or doing anything else on the road not in single file.

BarkingUnicorn: ggecko: [www.allfunnies.com image 400x400]

It should be illegal to make certain types of clothing in certain sizes.

All companies should be like Speedo and TYR are with racing swimsuits. The largest they come in (last I checked on Amazon) was a size 40, which is still pretty small.

Repo Man: And yet another reason to avoid MUPs. Leave them for small children, pedestrians, runners, skaters.

...and cars, too, evidently.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-02/local/39698135_1_trail -u sers-police-car-vienna

I'm 39.  I'm much stronger than I was at 20 in terms of my weight lifting ability.  I can't run short distances or sprints as fast as I could when I was on the high school track team, but I can run long races (10K+) whereas back then I'd be winded after a mile.   You can be better at things physically at 40 than at 20.  Not everything, but many things.

The Googles Do Nothing: I'm 39.  I'm much stronger than I was at 20 in terms of my weight lifting ability.  I can't run short distances or sprints as fast as I could when I was on the high school track team, but I can run long races (10K+) whereas back then I'd be winded after a mile.   You can be better at things physically at 40 than at 20.  Not everything, but many things.

An individual might be in better shape at 40 than 20 but there is a reason you don't see people in their 40s setting world records. After your mid 30s your genetic potential starts to drop off. If you never reached your potential in your late 20s and early 30s your times might still go down but you'll never be as good as you could have been when you were younger.

Quantum Apostrophe: elysive: What if you are morbidly obese at age 20 and then take up a sport at a later age?

You'd still be in worse shape than if you had been in shape at 20. Good on you for getting in better shape, but overall, being old sucks.

I wasn't morbidly obese, but I was totally out of shape and what I said still stands. There's no rule that young people are always in good shape. Being in shape is something that one has to work at and it has no age limits. Older people tolerate pain due to endurance exercise better and often develop skills that make them perform better than their younger counterparts.

There are some performance variables that definitely decline with age (reaction time etc), but that's not what you said.  You just should have been more specific in your verbiage.

yay, my bike story:  Riding down a main drag in a college town, going the speed limit(downhill), a car in the opposite lane thinks he can make it in front of me into a side street.  The one way side street that another car is coming out of, at the same time, so the illegally left turning car has to stop.  I hit the brakes a little as I see the turn start, then throw them on all the way as he stops in the street.  My front wheel hits the front tire and I lose contact with my bike and get a bird's eye view of a happy family as I pass over the hood of the car.  I remember the little kid start to wave as I go sailing past.

The impact with the car didn't hurt.  The impact with the pavement after my little flying lesson was another story.  I'm on my back, regaining consciousness as I see the car pull back into now-stopped traffic and pull away.  Classic hit and run.  Permanently distended collarbone on the right side, which makes rehab fun and continued exercising ... interesting because what my right arm used to be able to do, I no longer can do.  I used to be able to throw a football on target the length of a football field.  Playing catch with the nieces and nephews is permanently out.  I will never be able to play catch with any children of my own.  The morphine drip was fun, though.

Denver bicyclists, for the most part are insane to ride downtown.  I have a friend who rides to work, and he's been run off the road more times than I care to recall.  On the flipside, I've seen more red lights run by cyclists than I care to count.  If you choose not to heed the rules of the road, you deserve what happens, bike or car.  They are the rules of the road, and you are in/on the road.  T-boned because you didn't see the red light?  Get off the phone and look where you are going.  Run over and road rash covered because you didn't think a red light applied to you?  Wake up to reality.  Lost the settlement because you were in an argument with the wife while driving and didn't see the bicyclist? Pay up, jerk off.

/They never found the guy.
//also marks the last time I was on a bike
///nine years and counting

The Googles Do Nothing: /When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.

Don't go so far to the right that you risk running off the road, into drain grates, or get forced off the road by people passing too close.  There's a such thing as riding too far right, and I get worried about folks who do that when I'm driving.  Particularly if they're riding too far over on a narrow roadway, thus encouraging motorists to cross the centerline into oncoming traffic.

TheGregiss: Sounds like the dude on the bike was following too close. He should be issued a ticket in addition to his injuries.

Sounds like he got cut off by the driver and the driver stopped hard intentionally.

If youre on a bike on the road, do the 45/50 mph speed limit or get the fark out of the way, and don't get mad and tailgate on a hill when you get passed. Youll be made to look like the douche ftfa.

Sounds like you shouldn't be driving.  The posted speed is a maximum, not a minimum.  If you want minimum speed limits, only drive on roads with posted minimum speed limits.  If you don't want to deal with pedestrians, cyclists, farm implements and equestrians, stick to roads that ban those modes.  Otherwise, that's life, driver, DMV told you there'd be slow moving traffic when you got your license.  Deal with it or don't drive.  I don't need you making my job needlessly more dangerous with your anger issues and lack of time management skills.

tccomp: Too bad we don't have the other side of the story. Could have stopped for a dog in the road and they were just following too close/tailgating.

Drivers don't flee after a collision unless they know they were in the wrong and think they'll get away with it.

kokomo61: bearcats1983: The Googles Do Nothing: It is for this reason that I don't ever want to do a triathlon.  Too much time on the road training with the bike and running into drivers like this.  Drivers usually don't road rage at runners, but when they see a cyclist it seems to trigger something in them.

/When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.
//Cyclists that don't give every one else a bad name and cause this kind of problem

I always enjoy the idiot drivers who are oblivious to anything that isn't a car. I can't count the number of times I've come inches from getting run down. Even when the runner/cyclist isn't being a dick, some drivers still just can't seem to understand the concept of sharing the road.

On my commuter bike, I have a route that crosses several intersections...that even with marked crosswalks, drivers will plow right through them to make a RTOR without stopping (or even slowing down). If I'm crossing with the green, and a car is going into the crosswalk...sometimes they'll get a dose of this - 115 dB of USCG-rated air horn goodness.

[www.thecycler.net image 400x400]

Those things aren't nearly loud enough for some cities, like Portland, Oregon.  Hell, the MAX horns, audible from two miles away when used on "high" mode, are  barely loud enough in that city.

BunkyBrewman: This is the primary reason I rarely ride the bicycle on highways or city streets.  Just lucky the multi-use trails systems around here are extensive.

Depends on the region.  Portland's MUPs suck because they're bad at maintaining them, the centerlines, lane lines and shoulder lines are faded or missing, and there's no obvious hints for pedestrians on where to go (so they often walk edge to edge, blocking both directions).  Tulsa is lightyears ahead of Portland on the cycleways, except navigational signage (which, if it's existant at all, is just the old school "BIKE ROUTE" signs that expect you to be a psychic and know the route's destination and midpoints):  Lane markings, roadway surface, and signage is well maintained, pedestrians have an idea which side to walk on and are good about sticking to that side so other traffic can pass easily (if not given their own sidewalk), and it's all around an easier system to ride on.  Wish we had the first/last mile situation figured out, getting from anywhere and to anywhere from the cycleway network requires riding on some section line roads, which isn't for the faint hearted.  Reminds me of Portland 20 years ago before it had bike lanes to speak of, except with an actually decent cycleway network.

inglixthemad: I watch a group of cyclists go down my road every few days and the rules don't apply to them. Stop signs? Perish the thought!

What state?  Idaho and most of the midwest allow bicycles (and some cases like Oklahoma and Missouri, motorcycles) to treat stop signs the same as yield signs.

lack of warmth: Carth: Did you check your local bylaws to see if walkers and runners were allowed to use the bike lane? I know in our city it is pretty clear that cars and pedestrians aren't allowed to travel in bike lanes but are allow in 'multi use paths'

So you are saying double standards are stated in the law?  Because it does sound like a really not well thought out idea to make the runners run in traffic, but the cyclists can have their own private real estate.

Pretty common, though.  Oregon does this, though on the otherhand, Oregon does not have jaywalking laws, so crosswalks and sidewalks are merely suggestions, and not one that's ever taken by any jogger or runner I've seen in Oregon.

runescorpio: I am a commercial driver that has a vehicle that is literally the legal maximum width.

Goes to show there's a huge difference between merely being a commercial driver, and being a professional driver.  I fall into both categories by driving a bit more defensively and taking more time to deal with disorderly operators, both motorized or not, and I don't let it stress me out.  This shiat happens on the road.  If you can't handle it, you're part of the problem.

Zeno-25: Cyclists... the scourge of anyone with no time management skills trying to get anywhere on time using the roads.

Fixed that for you.  Traffic happens.  They told you this at the DMV.  Always good to leave extra time.  If it wasn't a cyclist, it'd be something else, like some impatient jerk going too fast in the rain and causing a wreck on the expressway.  Or someone trying to beat a light, failing at it, and t-boning cross traffic.  It's not rocket surgery.  Any five year old with a watch can figure it out.

born_yesterday: Then it abruptly ends at a crowded stoplight, and is followed by painted signs on the road of a bike and arrows, indicating the bike lane continues further ahead (it doesn't).

Want to know how I know you haven't been keeping current on the latest road laws?  That symbol indicates that it's a designated bike lane open to motorists, not that there's a bike lane ahead.  If it's positioned correctly, it also indicates where in the lane cyclists should be riding.  If there's no or inadequate shoulder, that'd be the center of the lane or close to it.

You might want to crack open that driver's manual for a refresher course every year or two.  You're expected to do that anyway even if they don't test you on it.

Publikwerks: Bikes are inherently unsafe when on the road with cars.

More like motor vehicles are inherently unsafe when operated by impatient, incompetent or incapacitated people.  It's a logical fallacy to try to make excuses for any of those three things.  If it wasn't a bike, it'd be a pedestrian, a rock, an animal, a disabled motor vehicle...these things happen, and the most important safety feature is the one that is theoretically between the seat and the steering wheel.

balloot: //If you live in SF and you ever see Critical Mass, you will lose all ability to ever feel bad for a cyclist who gets nailed by a car

If you're in SF and you're driving in the first place, I don't really have much sympathy for you in the first place, since you're intentionally making your own life miserable by doing so.  Just admit you're a masochist and you get off on pain.  You'd fit right in down on Castro Street.

Shang-High: I just "buzzed" a bicyclist riding half of the way into the road, when there was a good 6 feet to his right for biking (and bike lane markings).  Sorry, I'm not going to cross the double yellow lines into oncoming traffic, "share the road" works both ways.

If the bike lane is covered in debris, it's not exactly a viable option.  Being a douchebag won't change the condition roadway.  Maybe you should call the city and ask for a sweeper to service the road.  Unless you're in Oregon, where such technology doesn't exist yet, in which case, sucks to be you.

phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

Nope, car yields to through traffic, then shoots the asshole traffic planner who doesn't know what a right turn pocket is.  Turning traffic always yields to any intermediate lanes, left or right.

blacksho89: Otherwise, as a cyclist is technically a pedestrian, he has the right of way if he is at the crosswalk..

Cyclist is technically a vehicle when operating above walking speeds or when on the roadway, as a pedestrian at walking speeds on a sidewalk.  Yes, this means you're guilty of "driving on the sidewalk" if you're riding on the sidewalk faster than walking speed.

ZAZ: Starting from a red light or in moving traffic? In moving traffic it should be a "yield" type situation where you aren't supposed to disrupt the movement of bicycle traffic to make your turn. Same as changing lanes in front of a car.

Half right, this applies at a red light situation, too, though.  Bad idea to proceed off a red light across another lane without at least making eye contact with other drivers, even if they're driving a bicycle.

I recently heard about ongoing experiments with "bike boxes" to try to improve safety at red lights. If you tell me where I misplaced my notes I'll transcribe them for you. The idea is you put bikes ahead of cars at the red light. Now Ms. Right Turner On Her Cell Phone is going to have to look at the pack of bicycles which are in her path. Maybe she will notice them. They didn't work as well as hoped.

That's not to say they're a total failure, they've made some significant improvements in terms of incidents and reducing traffic conflict where they've been placed.  Still funny when I see someone get popped for making a right turn on red across one, ignoring the driver's manual and typically at least three signs saying "NO RIGHT TURN ON RED EXCEPT BICYCLES" signs.  Or stopping in the bike box, ignoring a big green area with a bike logo, the stop bar with WAIT HERE painted in advance of the line, and a "STOP HERE ON RED EXCEPT BICYCLES" sign.

squegeebooo: phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

The car should move over into the bike lane and treat it like a right turn lane.

Only if it says that on the sign, ie " RIGHT LANE - BICYCLES AND RIGHT TURNS ONLY".  Otherwise, you stay out of the lane and turn across it when clear.

Ker_Thwap: Really Twowheeling Tim?  You're going to dump on the guy with the CDL who's driven responsibly for 9 years to earn a living delivering products that you have in your house, all the while taking care to keep inconsiderate cyclists alive?

He's not exactly making my job easier.  I'm a professional driver, and it's hotheads like him that gives the rest of us a bad name.

jurzdevil: If I am going straight and car is going to turn right I will slow down and let the car pass, even stop before the intersection.

Don't do this.  It's confusing and unpredictable.  Signal a lane change and fall in behind the turning vehicle, then move back over after the intersection if you're that concerned.

WRXminion: This means impeding the flow of traffic is a ticketable offence, but I've never seen a ticket given to a cyclist for this.

Probably because the laws regarding impeding state that you're not impeding if you're going as fast as you can, and you're using slow vehicle turnouts to let people by.  If they're doing the first, and there's no place to legally and safely do the second, then they're not legally impeding traffic.

Fallout Zone: squegeebooo: phaseolus: Traffic law question:

Intersection, car in right lane wishing to turn right. Bicycle to his right in bike lane, going straight.

Bike yields to car, correct?

The car should move over into the bike lane and treat it like a right turn lane.

I encounter this every day on the way to work, enough so that I actually took the time to look up the laws.  This is correct.

Not sure you got that right.  It's not the case in Oregon, Washington or Oklahoma, and such a move would be contraindicated by the US manual on uniform traffic control (the sign would have to say that's an allowed movement unless your traffic engineers just stopped giving a shiat about doing their job right).

Publikwerks: But if the bike is overtaking in the bike lane, I think the bike should yield. it may not be the law, but it's the smart thing - Bikes are hard enough to see, and if you are overtaking in his blind spot, you're asking for trouble assuming he's going to spot you.

Use your mirrors, signal, don't assume the cyclist is going to yield when you're the one entering his lane, not the other way around.  Smart money is letting the cyclist in the bike lane by regardless of whether you just passed them or they're about to pass you.  Shoulder check that shiat, man!

Mitrovarr: In my experience, 2/3 of bike lanes are unusable as places to ride due to being too narrow, too close to parked cars, too full of gravel and trash, too slanted, too uneven, or too torn up. They make you harder to see as well. I kind of wish they wouldn't make them; just make the road a bit wider with a good shoulder and have cyclists ride in the lane. It's actually safer to ride in the lane because drivers are more likely to see you there.

The bike lane is a lane, and the difference in visibility between riding in the same lane and the next lane over is negligible compared to the severe disadvantage riding on the sidewalk puts you.  That said, streets with bike lanes should at least have enough shoulder to put the curb and gutter pan, some cities really have idiots planning these things.  I don't give Oregon much credit, but they get props for this: Oregon holds the legal minimum width for a bike lane adjacent to motorized traffic in the same direction or any kind of traffic in the opposite direction at six feet, as measured from the edge of pavement, shoulder line or the outside edge of the gutter pan, whichever is closest to the center of the roadway, but recommends more (though sets a maximum at 9 feet, since 10 feet would be enough for two bike lanes, a 6 foot inner lane and a 4 foot outer lane).

mbillips: What part of "multi-use path" do you not understand? It's not a bike path, it's a walking/cycling/running/skating trail, and labeled as such.

There are some cycleways that are not MUPs, even in the US.

mllawso: The Googles Do Nothing: /When I ride my bike I stop at all the stop signs and lights and stay to the far right.

Lane position is something that comes up a lot when I'm teaching a Basic Rider's Course (for motorcycles). One concern I have with a far-right lane position is this: You get the moron that wants to pass you and either:

1. Doesn't get over far enough and clips you, or
2. Sees and oncoming car and figures he can squeeze by you without getting over and clips you.

I usually ride in the left or middle of the lane: that way if someone wants to pass: it discourages the second type, and gives you space to get over for the first type.

That's also why pretty much every state has language stating cyclists are to either ride in the center of the right lane or as far right as practical/practicible.

Eponymous: Quantum Apostrophe: But can we all agree that electric scooters don't belong on the bike path?

There's a reason I avoid bike paths in downtown Montreal.

No we can't agree....Let the scooters ride 4 or 5 abreast at 5mph and see how many of the bikers get a taste of road rage

Motor vehicle.  Not allowed where signs says "No Motorized Vehicles."

whfolsom4: For what it's worth I don't harass cyclists, and don't pass them illegally no matter how slow they are, but they don't pay taxes to maintain the highways and they don't belong there.

Yes, actually, they do pay taxes to maintain the highways.  Highways are maintained through income tax, or in Oklahoma, the sales tax.  Gas taxes don't even pay the interest on bonds made to maintain existing motorist infrastructure, and registration only covers the cost of maintaining the registration database, if it even fully covers that.  Motorists pay usage taxes on top of the taxes everyone pays into the highway fund whether they drive or not because motorists are actively destroying the highway just by using them with a heavy vehicle.  Even as a professional driver, I wish that the fuel taxes at least covered the additional damage motorists cause to the highways compared to non motorized modes or mass transit; not exactly fair to expect the public to subsidize my privately owned machine like that.

whfolsom4: He might be an upstanding citizen, but many (other) cyclists don't wear safety equipment, follow traffic rules or maintain their bicycles (or even sobriety!).  Get off your high horse, and off the road.

I've lived and travelled to a lot of places.  I can say with confidence that the difference in the rate of compliance between motorists and cyclists anywhere is exactly zero.  Which should scare you if you see a lot of cyclists doing this, because there's going to be the same ratio of motorists doing the same shiat.

born_yesterday: That's exactly what it is.  I had no idea that that is what it meant, and I bet most of the people around here don't know either.  I sure as hell wouldn't trust that sign as protection versus the idiots around here

It's shiat like this that makes me wish we had mandatory driver testing every other year in this country.  The sad thing is driving takes more responsibility than food safety and we expect the guy running the fries at McDo's to re-test to keep a food handler's card every other year...

Vector R: The largest they come in (last I checked on Amazon) was a size 40, which is still pretty small.

Please tell me that's not waist size...I weigh 200 pounds and 40 is still about a foot more than I need...

Meesterjojo: Bicycles being moving vehicles, subject to the same laws as motor vehicles in most states in the U.S., and having been hit 9 times in 3 years, 4 in my current neighborhood, once ending up on the hood of a guys car for 2 blocks (and when he figured it out, stopped fast, knocking me off, then told me that he didn't need to give me insurance info because I appeared fine, and the police took 3 hours to get there)- I find this funny. Not just because I've been hit twice by people on bicycles, including once last month as some hipster woman ignored a stop sign and ran over my right foot (witnesses screamed and screamed at her to stop), but because the guy seems like a huge cry baby, douchebag.

Meesterjojo, if you have been hit that many times, you sir are a farking moron who needs to kill himself, or jump out in traffic and try again.

Im glad dude threw you off his hood after two blocks, jackass.

Baloo Uriza: born_yesterday: Then it abruptly ends at a crowded stoplight, and is followed by painted signs on the road of a bike and arrows, indicating the bike lane continues further ahead (it doesn't).

Want to know how I know you haven't been keeping current on the latest road laws?  That symbol indicates that it's a designated bike lane open to motorists, not that there's a bike lane ahead.  If it's positioned correctly, it also indicates where in the lane cyclists should be riding.  If there's no or inadequate shoulder, that'd be the center of the lane or close to it.

You might want to crack open that driver's manual for a refresher course every year or two.  You're expected to do that anyway even if they don't test you on it.

Thanks.  Someone already explained that to me, only they didn't feel the need to be an asshole about it.

Baloo Uriza: born_yesterday: That's exactly what it is.  I had no idea that that is what it meant, and I bet most of the people around here don't know either.  I sure as hell wouldn't trust that sign as protection versus the idiots around here

It's shiat like this that makes me wish we had mandatory driver testing every other year in this country.  The sad thing is driving takes more responsibility than food safety and we expect the guy running the fries at McDo's to re-test to keep a food handler's card every other year...

Over ten posts in a row.  Nevermind; you're exactly what FARK is looking for.

mark12A: As a runner, cyclist and driver, I can't stand people like you. It's good to be wary of cars and defer to them whenever possible, but dont break the law and be a dick to everyone else.

13 years. Oh, and by the way, 13 YEARS. 13 years I've been doing this, and if I was a dick I would have gotten my ass kicked loooong time ago by the good, but rough hewn, citizens of Philly. If what I was doing was dangerous, I would have been tagged years ago.

Is simples: Stay away from pedestrians when they're on sidewalks. And riding against traffic takes up NOT ONE SINGLE SQUARE INCH more space than riding with traffic. As for the oncoming motorists having less reaction time, that's OK, because now I HAVE REACTION TIME, unlike when I'm not facing traffic. So now I'm not completely vulnerable to an endless stream of total strangers coming up behind me.

You sound like the sort of person that used to argue that you're safer not wearing a seatbelt because it's better to be thrown clear of the car.

I recently read that a cyclist riding against traffic is ~3x more likely to be in an accident.  So on top of being illegal and a real dick move, it's also considerably more dangerous.

/Took up cycling recently.
//Steadily increasing my miles/week.
///Understand things from the cyclists' perspective much better than I did before.

Repo Man: And yet another reason to avoid MUPs. Leave them for small children, pedestrians, runners, skaters.

Amen.  As I said in a previous post, I recently started cycling and thought the extensive trail networks around here would be an awesome way to spend some time outdoors and improve my fitness.  But a few weeks into riding, I figured out that those paths are for biking, but cyclists belong on the road.  The cycling club I ride with avoids the paths.

born_yesterday: Baloo Uriza: born_yesterday: That's exactly what it is.  I had no idea that that is what it meant, and I bet most of the people around here don't know either.  I sure as hell wouldn't trust that sign as protection versus the idiots around here

It's shiat like this that makes me wish we had mandatory driver testing every other year in this country.  The sad thing is driving takes more responsibility than food safety and we expect the guy running the fries at McDo's to re-test to keep a food handler's card every other year...

Over ten posts in a row.  Nevermind; you're exactly what FARK is looking for.

Not my fault nobody else was posting at that time.

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