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(Sun Sentinel)   Bad news for folks in the Deep South   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 121
    More: PSA, birth defects, University of Leeds, absolute risk, cultural norm, cousin marriage, Health research  
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22414 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jul 2013 at 10:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-06 11:57:07 PM

jonny_q: Study is about a British town with a Pakistani community. Better make fun of the American South.


Gotta blame someone
 
2013-07-06 11:59:16 PM
Larry the Cable Guy slept with his forth cousin right after high school.

He slept with the first three during high school.
 
2013-07-06 11:59:43 PM
Bad news for folks in the Deep South

You mean aside from the fact that they're in the Deep South?
 
2013-07-07 12:02:23 AM

QuesoDelicioso: Bad news for Pennsyltucky, too.


Hold on just a gosh dangit minute!
We have I-80 and I-81 running thru here
There is a plentiful varied mix of DNA around our truck stops
 
2013-07-07 12:03:02 AM

CruJones: Oldiron_79: Canton: Y'know, I really wish they'd specify first cousin. Second is still too close for comfort. Third is borderline. But once you get to fourth... eh. Whatever.

/Would not marry any sort of cousin
//Knowingly
///Slashies

There is an Icelandic study that says 3rd cousins are actually less prone to inbreeding defects than people even less related than that.



That may be what I was referring to upthread. Wasn't it a green light on here?


Didnt see your earlier post till after your reply.

/I dont even know any of my 3rd cousins to know if any of them are hot.
//have some 1st and 2nd cousins that if not related would hit it.
 
2013-07-07 12:04:39 AM
As has been said up thread, first cousin marriages provide enough genetic variety that they aren't a problem - so long as they don't become habitual.

Double cousins, OTOH, are nearly as bad as siblings when it comes to lack of genetic variety. (This is two siblings marrying two siblings, and their offspring marrying/producing offspring)

/understand the statistics of sexual reproduction
 
2013-07-07 12:05:40 AM

Ambitwistor: [img1.imagilive.com image 298x380]


i41.tinypic.com

Here's the family tree of Charles II of Spain.  It's an interesting story, for those who haven't seen this before.

If you look, you'll note multiple cases of uncles marrying nieces, and as each generation goes by, they become more and more inbred.  And here's how he turned out:

The Habsburg King Charles II of Spain was sadly degenerated with an enormous misshapen head. His Habsburg jaw stood so much out that his two rows of teeth could not meet; he was unable to chew. His tongue was so large that he was barely able to speak. His intellect was similarly disabled. His brief life consisted chiefly of a passage from prolonged infancy to premature senility. Charles' family was anxious only to prolong his days and thought little about his education, so that he could barely read or write.
 
2013-07-07 12:07:14 AM
This is pretty much the long term strategy of the GOP. They don't have much else.
 
2013-07-07 12:07:58 AM
Sounds like this is more of a problem for Pakistanis.
 
2013-07-07 12:08:33 AM

Oldiron_79: There is an Icelandic study that says 3rd cousins are actually less prone to inbreeding defects than people even less related than that.


Elizabeth II and Prince Philip are second cousins once removed, through Christian IX of Denmark, and also level third cousins, through Queen Victoria.  See ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha for how that turned out.
 
2013-07-07 12:16:10 AM
Is there a lamest headline of the year award? Thanks to subby, I have my vote figured out!
 
2013-07-07 12:16:56 AM

GGracie: No farking shiat!!!
Have you seen the royal family???
You don't get ears that big and teeth that long unless you cross an elephant with a badger!
Seriously, money that could help the poor become educated was put towards the biggest derp study in history.  Farking morons!


To be fair though, honey-badger just don't give a shiat.
 
2013-07-07 12:17:00 AM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Oldiron_79: There is an Icelandic study that says 3rd cousins are actually less prone to inbreeding defects than people even less related than that.

Elizabeth II and Prince Philip are second cousins once removed, through Christian IX of Denmark, and also level third cousins, through Queen Victoria.  See ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha for how that turned out.


Well in all fairness Iceland has such a small gene pool that people who are presumably unrelated may be related further back.
 
2013-07-07 12:20:11 AM

2chris2: Ambitwistor: [img1.imagilive.com image 298x380]

[i41.tinypic.com image 500x385]

Here's the family tree of Charles II of Spain.  It's an interesting story, for those who haven't seen this before.

If you look, you'll note multiple cases of uncles marrying nieces, and as each generation goes by, they become more and more inbred.  And here's how he turned out:

The Habsburg King Charles II of Spain was sadly degenerated with an enormous misshapen head. His Habsburg jaw stood so much out that his two rows of teeth could not meet; he was unable to chew. His tongue was so large that he was barely able to speak. His intellect was similarly disabled. His brief life consisted chiefly of a passage from prolonged infancy to premature senility. Charles' family was anxious only to prolong his days and thought little about his education, so that he could barely read or write.


He died at 38 - while not a long life, it was hardly brief.  If anything, he was famous for not dying, because everyone in Europe was basically waiting for him to do so to start the War of Spanish Succession.  He was the watched pot of Europe in the 1600s
 
2013-07-07 12:30:20 AM
 
2013-07-07 12:33:12 AM

SnipDaddyDad: You racist farkers.  http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/race_distribution.html


Oh lawdy
 
2013-07-07 12:34:07 AM

lack of warmth: Larry the Cable Guy slept with his forth cousin right after high school.

He slept with the first three during high school.


Lord I apologize.
 
2013-07-07 12:36:18 AM
So instead of 0.000023% it's 0.000046%?  Ooooo, scary.
 
2013-07-07 12:41:02 AM
you suck subby.  You're a farking bigot.
 
2013-07-07 12:54:58 AM
More like the midwest than the South.   West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio.   A lot more of that type of thing up there than anywhere in the South.
 
2013-07-07 01:10:08 AM
When I read the headline I thought the article would be about global warming and the eventual Northward migration of Floridians to Georgia and Alabama.
 
2013-07-07 01:12:13 AM

ArcadianRefugee: So instead of 0.000023% it's 0.000046%?  Ooooo, scary.


6% instead of 3%, apparently. So, 1 out of 15 or so.

I know you weren't being serious, but a jump from one in thirty to one in fifteen is indeed scarier than a jump from one in five million to one in two million.
 
2013-07-07 01:15:06 AM

Barfmaker: I thought we already knew this...didn't we already know this?


I was under that impression as well.

Here, like this:

i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-07 01:17:38 AM

red5ish: When I read the headline I thought the article would be about global warming and the eventual Northward migration of Floridians to Georgia and Alabama.


Bugs Bunny already came up with the plan for how to deal with FL
 
2013-07-07 01:21:32 AM
Yeah, keep using us as your Judas Goat. Cos y'all are sooooo civilized up there in yankee land.
 
2013-07-07 01:23:05 AM

Oldiron_79: I thought this has been known since like forever.


My pakistani buddy said 'whats wrong with marrying your cousin' and refused to believe it resulted in a higher rate of defects..   He said it was some garbage tossed around to be culturally bigoted.

Then again, he snaps your pencil when he starts losing a debate and gets flustered.
 
2013-07-07 01:26:53 AM
i43.tinypic.com

I could relate to this episode. When you only see cousins once or twice a year, they don't seem like relatives. You have to be around them much more often for the Westermarck effect to kick in.
 
2013-07-07 01:33:22 AM
Pair of CSBs:

1) My maternal grandmother's grandparents were cousins.  Once we figured that out, all the duplicate names in the family tree suddenly made a lot more sense.  We just figured English people in the 1800s were really uncreative namers.

2) My PhD research group had a Lebanese undergrad honours student who was going back home after graduating to marry her cousin.  Apparently the boy's mother had called dibs on her when she was born.
 
2013-07-07 01:35:43 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Oldiron_79: I thought this has been known since like forever.

My pakistani buddy said 'whats wrong with marrying your cousin' and refused to believe it resulted in a higher rate of defects..   He said it was some garbage tossed around to be culturally bigoted.

Then again, he snaps your pencil when he starts losing a debate and gets flustered.


Well in all fairness you have to breed in for more than 1 generation to have problems at the cousin level.

The problem is when you consider cousin farking ok most people end up with ancestors who was cousins.
 
2013-07-07 01:41:11 AM

Repo Man: [i43.tinypic.com image 400x300]

I could relate to this episode. When you only see cousins once or twice a year, they don't seem like relatives. You have to be around them much more often for the Westermarck effect to kick in.


I only ever saw my cousins say five times before we started having funerals close together as the elderly relatives died, and I still would never think of them romantically. They're fraternal twins and the girl is actually gorgeous, her brother is kind of hipster-looking but that's not it, it's just way too close to the tree for me.

/Dad was adopted in Indiana
//I'll never date anyone from Indiana just in case...
 
2013-07-07 01:42:49 AM

Oldiron_79: I thought this has been known since like forever.


It has. And like a lot of other folk knowledge, it's completely wrong.
 
2013-07-07 01:48:01 AM

Wulfman: [www.motherjones.com image 630x472]


/slings mud
I would just like to point out that Kentucky is NOT marked on this map. As you can see, the real hillbilly inbreds are in Tennessee.
/end mudslinging
 
2013-07-07 02:09:50 AM

Solid Muldoon: Yeah, keep using us as your Judas Goat. Cos y'all are sooooo civilized up there in yankee land.


Scapegoat.  To use the South as a Judas Goat, the rest of the country would have to be using the South as an example to some third party of why sister-farking was good for the third party.  Kind of missed the part where the rest of the country actively tries to present the South's sexual proclivities for ersatz cloning as the gold standard.
 
2013-07-07 02:16:59 AM
Eh, I've seen studies showing it goes from 1.5% to 2.5% with cousins. Bfd.

People with huntingtons or dwarfism are still allowed to procreate and nobody cares about that.
 
2013-07-07 02:17:49 AM

len470: MOCK26: And how many people are completely and totally devoid of genes with a defect?


Non Sequitur, Sirrah. Defect that matters, defect that takes five generations to manifest, defect that can be passed on. Basically the answer to your reposte is "so what?"    Ignoratio elenchi.


Just admit it, you want to fark you sister, right?
 
2013-07-07 02:26:04 AM
So, Darwined?
 
2013-07-07 02:55:37 AM
I grew up in western PA and I live now in the deepest part of the Deep South now. I deeply resent  submitter's implication that southerners can hold a candle to my native Appalachia when it comes to cousin-farking.

Down here there are no mountains, and mountains are what makes it too goddamn much work to go fark someone you're not already related to.

Besides, it's not all bad. Sure, I don't clot so well, but I can taste purple and if you're a redhead I can hear your thoughts.
 
2013-07-07 03:20:55 AM
i14.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-07 04:45:45 AM

Bondith: Pair of CSBs:

1) My maternal grandmother's grandparents were cousins.  Once we figured that out, all the duplicate names in the family tree suddenly made a lot more sense.  We just figured English people in the 1800s were really uncreative namers.

2) My PhD research group had a Lebanese undergrad honours student who was going back home after graduating to marry her cousin.  Apparently the boy's mother had called dibs on her when she was born.


He's going to be so disappointed to find out she plays for the other team.

/Here all week. Tip your waitress.
 
2013-07-07 05:36:18 AM
So  to summarize:

Congenital defect risk:
second cousins and up: ~2%
first cousins :~4%
Pakistani immigrants (or royality in the olden times) doing it over many generations: OMGWTFBBQ?
Subby not having the least bit of a clue about where in the US first cousins are allowed to wed (hint: it's not in the Deep South).

/knowing how to use birth control priceless
//residental cousin "farker"
 
2013-07-07 05:46:19 AM
I know you weren't being serious, but a jump from one in thirty to one in fifteen is indeed scarier than a jump from one in five million to one in two million.

If we're talking societally and not individually here this only matters if non cousin couples and cousin couples breed in equvivalent numbers, which is not happening and wouldn't even happen without the modern social taboo (That's like: OMG once we tolerate the gays everybody will be gay). Even in Japan where cousin couples are still socially acceptable or even prefered the rate doesn't get over 1:3 IIRC.
 
2013-07-07 06:10:18 AM

Ambitwistor: [img1.imagilive.com image 298x380]


of SALESMEN!
 
2013-07-07 06:13:06 AM
Sorry for the triple but holy shiat that Wulfman map is total crap. It might accurately show the rates of first cousin marriages all over the world but the legality is totaly wrong. Thats the accurte map from Wikipedia:

Blue: legal
Orange: depending on religion/territory
Red: illegal
Deep Red: criminal
Grey: no data

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-07 06:18:32 AM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-07 06:24:23 AM

Mock26: len470: Aside from the ignorant remarks already provided and this study, the problem is not cousin marriages per se. The occasional cousin (first or any) marriage is not a genetic problem. And if there is no defect to pass on, twice zero is zero. So much for the headline. It is the constant generation after generation of close marriages that magnify any genetic anomaly. The study population seems to be one of many generations of close relative marriage. In other words, they have reproduced much like the royalty of Europe, i.e. closed communities. Hapsburg chin anyone? Porphyria perhaps? So shove your Southern jokes where the sun don't shine.

And how many people are completely and totally devoid of genes with a defect?

 
2013-07-07 07:35:06 AM
I would post a damn popcorn eating GIF here, but I'm too lazy and tired tonight.  This thread has been frightening and funny at the same time.  Thanks!
 
2013-07-07 07:36:04 AM

Europos: So  to summarize:

Congenital defect risk:
second cousins and up: ~2%
first cousins :~4%
Pakistani immigrants (or royality in the olden times) doing it over many generations: OMGWTFBBQ?
Subby not having the least bit of a clue about where in the US first cousins are allowed to wed (hint: it's not in the Deep South).

/knowing how to use birth control priceless
//residental cousin "farker"


Why do you think they had to forbid it in the south?
 
2013-07-07 07:46:18 AM
Why do you think they had to forbid it in the south?

Because of pearl-clutching derpists like you?

Nah, for the most part I think they freaked out because of some "Christian" sects popping up that made underage cousin diddling mandatory IIRC.
 
2013-07-07 07:58:31 AM

ladyfortuna: I was kind of shocked when I found out New York allows first cousins to marry.

As do 18 other states. What's up with that.


Came here to say this.  The "only in the south" thing gets old after a while.  Maybe more cousins do marry in the south, but the laws i the south are in some cases more restrictive than elsewhere in the US.
 
2013-07-07 08:15:59 AM

Bondith: Pair of CSBs:

1) My maternal grandmother's grandparents were cousins.  Once we figured that out, all the duplicate names in the family tree suddenly made a lot more sense.  We just figured English people in the 1800s were really uncreative namers.

2) My PhD research group had a Lebanese undergrad honours student who was going back home after graduating to marry her cousin.  Apparently the boy's mother had called dibs on her when she was born.


Back when I was a kid, our youth director was his wife's second husband.  She had kids with both marriages and never had to change her name.  Her maiden and both married names were all Brown.  As far as I know she wasn't related to either husbands.  I am sure this could play out with the name Smith as well.  Schmidt not so much, because there is some spelling differences out there.  Schmidt is a common name in Saginaw county, MI.
 
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