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(CNN)   Add Bolivia to the ever-growing list of anti-American South American nations willing to grant asylum to Edward Snowden   (cnn.com) divider line 94
    More: Followup, anti-American South American nations, Bolivia, Evo Morales, United States, Venezuela, Daniel Ortega, Moscow's Sheremetyevo International Airport, internet traffic  
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1581 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jul 2013 at 3:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-06 12:26:15 PM  
Their number one export is snow, so it seems fitting.
 
2013-07-06 12:30:53 PM  
Remember the good old days when we'd have the CIA send in a hit squad and then install a shiny new American dictator?

Good times.
 
2013-07-06 12:40:18 PM  
I think the Monroe doctrine has done more damage to USA interest than protect it.
 
2013-07-06 12:44:21 PM  
Call it payback for the United Fruit Company and assorted misadventures.
 
2013-07-06 12:46:56 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Remember the good old days when we'd have the CIA send in a hit squad and then install a shiny new American dictator?

Good times.


Someone should send Snowden a Che Guevara tee shirt.
 
2013-07-06 01:04:13 PM  
Considering he's been stuck in a Russian airport for a couple of weeks now, whatever country takes him had better hose him down before he boards a plane, because itss a long trip back to the other side of the world with somebody smelling that bad.
 
2013-07-06 01:12:28 PM  
i1138.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-06 01:12:36 PM  
we aren't making ourselves any friends in this mess, are we?  not only did we get caught reading other people's mail (which to be honest, every country does to every other country) but now we're being made the victims of a Ed Snowden shell game...we can't catch him, and everyone is out there is using him to further embarrass and taunt the US.

Our best bet would be to dial back the manhunt, ask politely for people to turn him over to us...then post a $2 million reward to any private contractor that snags his ass and carts it back to this country...no questions asked.
 
2013-07-06 01:17:15 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: I think the Monroe doctrine has done more damage to USA interest than protect it.


That was one terrible episode of Too Close for Comfort. Who knew it would have repercussions in Bolivia!
 
2013-07-06 01:30:13 PM  
Ooooo I'd take that one. Lotsa blow and a lake called *Beavis voice* Titicaca.
 
2013-07-06 01:31:22 PM  

Weaver95: we aren't making ourselves any friends in this mess, are we?  not only did we get caught reading other people's mail (which to be honest, every country does to every other country) but now we're being made the victims of a Ed Snowden shell game...we can't catch him, and everyone is out there is using him to further embarrass and taunt the US.

Our best bet would be to dial back the manhunt, ask politely for people to turn him over to us...then post a $2 million reward to any private contractor that snags his ass and carts it back to this country...no questions asked.


Isn't the private contractors what got us in trouble to begin with? If snowmden had been federal employee, they would have taken steps for him not to leave the country.
 
2013-07-06 01:40:38 PM  
Darth_Lukecash:

Isn't the private contractors what got us in trouble to begin with? If snowmden had been federal employee, they would have taken steps for him not to leave the country.

we have a long history of using privateers and bounty hunters.  at this point might as well let 'em loose.  it can't possibly be any worse than what's already happened to us.
 
2013-07-06 01:45:30 PM  
Payback's a biatch.

America interfered with matters in the Southern Cone far too often in the past and now they are beginning to assert themselves a bit.

Just let him go or put the same guys Bush used to look for Bin Laden on the case.
 
2013-07-06 01:49:05 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Darth_Lukecash: I think the Monroe doctrine has done more damage to USA interest than protect it.

That was one terrible episode of Too Close for Comfort. Who knew it would have repercussions in Bolivia!



Who hasn't had nightmares from this episode?
 
2013-07-06 02:13:49 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Darth_Lukecash: I think the Monroe doctrine has done more damage to USA interest than protect it.

That was one terrible episode of Too Close for Comfort. Who knew it would have repercussions in Bolivia!


i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-06 02:16:40 PM  

quatchi: Payback's a biatch.


In what world is that Payback?
 
2013-07-06 03:11:11 PM  

LasersHurt: quatchi: Payback's a biatch.

In what world is that Payback?


It's them thumbing their noses at a country that once had the entire region under their thumb.

How is that not payback?
 
2013-07-06 03:14:21 PM  

Weaver95: we have a long history of using privateers and bounty hunters. at this point might as well let 'em loose. it can't possibly be any worse than what's already happened to us.


Nobody is stupid enough to order him be killed, are they?  That would look worse than all of this already looks. One has to assume that's why he made his identity known; so he'd stay alive.
 
2013-07-06 03:35:57 PM  

violentsalvation: Ooooo I'd take that one. Lotsa blow and a lake called *Beavis voice* Titicaca.


I'd take Ecuador. Modern infrastructure, they use the American dollar, and lots of Chinese restaurants. Win win!
 
2013-07-06 03:37:38 PM  
If only everyone who wanted to ride Assanage's cock was forced to live in a third world dictatorship they might actually realize how much the US is not a police state.
 
2013-07-06 03:41:47 PM  
Is there any way for him to actually get to either Venezuela or Bolivia w/o having the planes grounded like last time?
 
2013-07-06 03:45:32 PM  

LasersHurt: quatchi: Payback's a biatch.

In what world is that Payback?


Read up on Bechtel and Bolivia.  I'm not defending their administration, but the Bolivians have good reason not to trust America and capital enterprise.  The US has been interfering in Bolivian and South American affairs for a long, long time.  It has been in our interest to keep that region somewhat unstable, making various agreements with various powers that benefit us and keep them in fairly constant flux and turmoil.

Now, they have a chance to give us the finger, and they are jumping on it.
 
2013-07-06 03:48:35 PM  
serpent_sky: Nobody is stupid enough to order him be killed, are they? That would look worse than all of this already looks.

You are correct. If they do kill him -- and I don't think they will -- it means they're covering up something much, much worse that we haven't heard about yet.

The important facts most people seem to be missing, in this story:

- The feds don't want Snowden to come back to the US. They file extradition papers as a matter of pantomime. The worst PR would result from a trial, or, god help them, having to put him in Gitmo, or something. If he could have actually defected to the PRC (China), that would have been terrific. He probably doesn't still know anything damaging, so they want him to shut up and vanish, quietly, in a way that doesn't boomerang on them.

- The NSA is SUPPOSED to be spying on us. On Europe. On everyone. That's kind of their job. Is it a good idea? That's a separate issue. If you didn't think they were recording all your emails, etc, then (A) you're too naive to know what to think about all of this, and (B) you don't read the news, because it was reported in the mid and late 1990s and again in the early 2000s that the feds were tapping all that stuff, domestically and internationally, as much as they possibly could.

Fact is, humans at the NSA / FBI / etc don't even peek at most of that stuff. Because it wouldn't even be possible. Software scans it. Do they do anything nefarious with the data they cull? We still don't know.

BUT if they do their job right, you'll never know their computers were peeking. It will never hurt you. And you'll never care. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying it's painless. And many people would argue it's necessary for national security. They might be right, might not.

Trouble is, they seem to be incompetent. And that makes their entire mandate to step outside Average Joe laws evaporate. In the first place, they claim they've stopped all kinds of terrorism. They can't name a case, though. The Clinton Administration stopped terrorist attacks and, later, gave us the details. So come on.

Second, they fail to stop terrorist attacks and crimes that, with their surveillance powers, ought to be easy to stop. Terrorists are not supervillains. Most of them are fanatical whackjobs with IQs near room temperature. If you're spying on everyone talking about bombs, and you're any good at it, most of these jackoffs should pop right up like a game of Whack-A-Mole. Yes, Boston Marathon bombers, I'm looking at you. And the NSA should have been, too.

Third, they obviously give security clearances to people who haven't been vetted. Such as Snowden. Thing is, for every Snowden who goes public, you have to figure there are ten to a hundred who didn't have the same conscience. They just use their insufficiently supervised intelligence access to . . . stalk celebrities. Blackmail politicians. Sell trade secrets to big corporations or market secrets to Wall Street or security secrets to China.

THAT is the scandal here. The NSA lied to Congress, blah blah blah. Screw Congress. The problem is that we give the intelligence community vast amounts of money and vast un-Constitutional power -- and they keep screwing up like jackasses. Who knows what else they're screwing up? Not Snowden. Not us. Probably not even them.

Snowden, himself, is a distraction. Keep your eye on what matters.
 
2013-07-06 03:48:40 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Is there any way for him to actually get to either Venezuela or Bolivia w/o having the planes grounded like last time?


If I had money to burn, I'd be booking tickets in Snowden's name on every flight from Moscow heading towards South America.
 
2013-07-06 03:50:04 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Is there any way for him to actually get to either Venezuela or Bolivia w/o having the planes grounded like last time?


If he's on a flight that doesn't need to land to refuel it's a lot harder for them to stop him.
 
2013-07-06 03:52:22 PM  
iaazathot: The US has been interfering in Bolivian and South American affairs for a long, long time.

The history of our involvement in this hemisphere is rarely taught in US schools, for some reason. In a nutshell, for those who missed it, US : Americas :: Soviet Union : Eastern Europe.

That's a little harsh, largely because about 50% of the damage was done by US (and US-affiliated) corporations. Most of the damage the US did was indirect(ish), due to assassinations and funding local terrorists and dictators, rather than simply invading wholesale. But these South American countries that are mad at us are mad the way Romania is still mad at Russia.
 
2013-07-06 03:54:09 PM  
The real secessionist movement: North versus South America
 
2013-07-06 03:56:15 PM  
How can they not like us after all we've done tofor them?
 
2013-07-06 03:59:08 PM  
I'm thinking of writing my member of parliament to have Canada offer him asylum.

/seriously
 
2013-07-06 03:59:35 PM  
This might be the garden spot of the whole country. People may travel hundreds of miles just to get to this spot where we're standing now. This might be the Atlantic City, New Jersey of all Bolivia for all you know.
img829.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-06 04:02:13 PM  

RandomAxe: - The feds don't want Snowden to come back to the US. They file extradition papers as a matter of pantomime.


So the thinking behind re-routing the President of Bolivia's plane was what then?
 
2013-07-06 04:02:48 PM  
This might be the Atlantic City, New Jersey of all Bolivia for all you know.

You gotta admit, it looks better than Atlantic City. Monopoly was a long time ago.
 
2013-07-06 04:04:10 PM  
The Numbers: So the thinking behind re-routing the President of Bolivia's plane was what then?

They call that sort of thing 'Security Theater'. With a touch of FU Bolivia, We're Still The King thrown on top.

Or maybe they just wanted to gall Bolivia into taking Snowden, in which case it may have worked.
 
2013-07-06 04:05:57 PM  
Whether you're pro-Snowden or anti-Snowden, one thing I think we can all agree on is that the US is losing serious face over this one way or another.
 
2013-07-06 04:13:19 PM  
The most interesting consequence so far is that the very idea of asylum itself appears to have wilted. Most nations are couching the concept in terms of "well you've got to show up first" which seems contrary to the hope of remaining free. Then when he arrives, they shut him out on a technicality. In fact it seems to be a backhanded threat at best which sidesteps the promise of diplomacy in general. We've had enough "red weddings" in our time that every nation pondering whether to grant asylum takes the appearance of House Frey.

/as an American, I cannot objectively understand asylum AWAY from the USA
//as a human, I know what we have done
///as an employee, I find Mr. Snowden to be a hypocrite
 
2013-07-06 04:14:01 PM  
"So it is with great grief I have to announce that Snowden will not be getting any form of shelter in Iceland because the current government doesn't even have enough spine for the Parliament to discuss Snowden's request,"

That's how I feel about my govt these days.

/norway
 
2013-07-06 04:15:08 PM  
Too bad for Snowden we didn't reroute the Canadian Prime Minister's plane or some such thing. I'd still go with Venezuela if I were him. The wealthy ruling class in Venezuela is probably better at protecting its own interests than Bolivia's, and they'll probably maintain an official stance of being vaguely anti-American for longer. Nicaragua is definitely the safety school here.
 
2013-07-06 04:17:52 PM  
We elected Obama ... and that means that the world (the entire world) loves America now ... so this story must be a mistake.

/Have the front page of the newspaper for the last six years must be a mistake, too.
//At least his election made race relations in this country delightful - thank god for that.
 
2013-07-06 04:18:27 PM  
"Half" the front page (bah, no spellcheck).
 
2013-07-06 04:19:16 PM  
Yanqui Go Home
 
2013-07-06 04:25:04 PM  
i269.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-06 04:25:32 PM  
He should just stay in Russia and boink that hot Russian spy.
 
2013-07-06 04:27:22 PM  
I hear they have good marching powder.
 
2013-07-06 04:28:02 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I'd take Ecuador. Modern infrastructure, they use the American dollar, and lots of Chinese restaurants. Win win!


Sushi restaurants all over Quito (at least the nice parts). Super cheap personal services. Nice range of climates. Terrible beer selection unless you're into Pilsener, which is super cheap. Liquor is expensive and wine can be difficult to find outside of big cities. If you're not fussy about alcohol, it's not a bad place to be. You can live really cheap and still have access to many of the comforts of home, even annoying ones like 3d movie theaters.
 
2013-07-06 04:29:12 PM  

boinkingbill: He should just stay in Russia and boink that hot Russian spy.


Keri Russell?
 
2013-07-06 04:29:46 PM  
This is what happens when you throw your influence & military might around clumsily - you piss off folks that would otherwise be your allies.
 
2013-07-06 04:31:50 PM  
VTGremlin: Keri Russell?

Or Linda Fiorentino. Mmmmm . . . .
 
2013-07-06 04:37:08 PM  

RandomAxe: The Numbers: So the thinking behind re-routing the President of Bolivia's plane was what then?

They call that sort of thing 'Security Theater'. With a touch of FU Bolivia, We're Still The King thrown on top.

Or maybe they just wanted to gall Bolivia into taking Snowden, in which case it may have worked.


Sorry, but that's a load of BS. Having already pissed of China, Russia and the EU, the last thing the US would to do is fark with inviolable rules of international diplomacy and appear even more like we don't give a shiat. Your idea of 'security theater' is lots of downside for negligible upside.

General rule of thumb for this sort of thing - maximise your level of control over the situation. That means getting Snowden back to the US.
 
2013-07-06 04:41:20 PM  

red5ish: This might be the garden spot of the whole country. People may travel hundreds of miles just to get to this spot where we're standing now. This might be the Atlantic City, New Jersey of all Bolivia for all you know.
[img829.imageshack.us image 715x322]


Waiting for this reference.  Thanks.
 
2013-07-06 04:46:15 PM  

EngineerAU: Nadie_AZ: I'd take Ecuador. Modern infrastructure, they use the American dollar, and lots of Chinese restaurants. Win win!

Sushi restaurants all over Quito (at least the nice parts). Super cheap personal services. Nice range of climates. Terrible beer selection unless you're into Pilsener, which is super cheap. Liquor is expensive and wine can be difficult to find outside of big cities. If you're not fussy about alcohol, it's not a bad place to be. You can live really cheap and still have access to many of the comforts of home, even annoying ones like 3d movie theaters.


I have lived all over latin America, Ecuador is just ok.  Chile and Peru would be my choice above Ecuador, Peru having excellent food and Chile great infrastructure and bringing itself up by the boot straps.

Pilseners are pretty much the norm all over latin America since the Germans and the Bavarians had to brew light beers due to the local tastes and the hot climates(which is why many people still order beer al clima, room temp).

Oddly enough I have been able to find Casillero del Diablo and Concha y Toro decent wines all over South America.  Hard liquor can be expensive, which is why many people stick to rum.  But if you can savvy the local lingo, contraband is cheap and easily had.

I will continue to hang my hat between Colombia and the US since I am a dual citizen, but do not kid yourself.  99.9 percent of latin americans would give their right nut to come to the US.
 
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