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(ITF Gaming)   The sense of entitlement that comes with being a gamer   (itfgaming.com) divider line 85
    More: Interesting, digital recording, THQ, gamers, Humble Bundle, man hours  
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4582 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Jul 2013 at 11:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-06 09:29:52 AM  
2 things:

1) The sense of entitlement that comes with being a gameralive

2) The point of the humble bundles is pay what you can or think something is worth. For everyone giving 5 dollars or less, there was someone giving more. Some people only bought it as a passing curiosity, others to support a company. Others for whatever reason. It's sort of like a socialist version of a groupon deal. With no set cash out point. If you can and want to give 10000 do so. If you can't or don't want to, don't. Everyone knows that going into it.
 
2013-07-06 09:37:57 AM  
Also, if you already bought one of the $60 THQ games that are included in the bundle, throwing another 5 dollars on top to get the other games would significantly ease my mind about the average. There's no way to know how many gamers bought one of the bundled games prior to the bundles.
 
2013-07-06 09:54:40 AM  

SphericalTime: Also, if you already bought one of the $60 THQ games that are included in the bundle, throwing another 5 dollars on top to get the other games would significantly ease my mind about the average. There's no way to know how many gamers bought one of the bundled games prior to the bundles.


Also, is she using full, release-level, pricing? Because some of those are old, no?
 
2013-07-06 09:59:27 AM  
That's like b*tching because someone bought a used car because they didn't want to pay full price for a new one.
 
2013-07-06 10:22:47 AM  

Aarontology: That's like b*tching because someone bought a used car because they didn't want to pay full price for a new one.


Hell, many of the Humble Bundles i bought were games I wouldn't normally have bought.
 
2013-07-06 10:26:22 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Aarontology: That's like b*tching because someone bought a used car because they didn't want to pay full price for a new one.

Hell, many of the Humble Bundles i bought were games I wouldn't normally have bought.


Yeah, that seems to be a point the author is missing: People aren't necessarily going to buy something they don't really want in the first place, just because it's cheaper, particularly when it comes to something like gaming where they could be spending their time on a better game.
 
2013-07-06 10:31:11 AM  

Aarontology: RedPhoenix122: Aarontology: That's like b*tching because someone bought a used car because they didn't want to pay full price for a new one.

Hell, many of the Humble Bundles i bought were games I wouldn't normally have bought.

Yeah, that seems to be a point the author is missing: People aren't necessarily going to buy something they don't really want in the first place, just because it's cheaper, particularly when it comes to something like gaming where they could be spending their time on a better game.


Or sometimes they end up discovering a game they would never have played otherwise.
 
2013-07-06 11:16:40 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Aarontology: RedPhoenix122: Aarontology: That's like b*tching because someone bought a used car because they didn't want to pay full price for a new one.

Hell, many of the Humble Bundles i bought were games I wouldn't normally have bought.

Yeah, that seems to be a point the author is missing: People aren't necessarily going to buy something they don't really want in the first place, just because it's cheaper, particularly when it comes to something like gaming where they could be spending their time on a better game.

Or sometimes they end up discovering a game they would never have played otherwise.


So, I didn't by the THQ Humble Bundle, but I did get Darksiders through the PSN network for free and loved it.  And I went and paid for Darksiders 2 at $60 dollars . . . and it's meh.  But I got two games for 30 dollars and I really liked one of them.  Seems reasonable to me.  If I get another THQ game that I like for free via PSN I'm not going to go out and buy another full game to support them.  $20 is reasonable too.
 
2013-07-06 11:29:36 AM  
I don't think its a sense of entitlement. I think its us being American.
 
2013-07-06 11:30:34 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Or sometimes they end up discovering a game they would never have played otherwise.


Sometimes.
 
2013-07-06 11:50:39 AM  
"As an example, we kicked up such a fuss over the Xbox One that Microsoft had to back down, but we lost so many potentially cool features..."

Author is a moron.
 
2013-07-06 11:55:14 AM  
I expect my games to be like my Carl's Jr.

1. Exactly what it says on the tin2. Not fUBAR'd.3. Enjoyable while I ingest it with no problematic after-effects.As for Humble Bundles... well, I live on disability for life so excuse me for not blowing it all.
 
2013-07-06 11:55:14 AM  
What a surprise, people don't always place the same monetary value on a product or service as you do.
 
2013-07-06 11:55:32 AM  
Your blog, by definition, sucks.

There's an assumption that if a game (or any product) is brought to market at a certain price, then that's what it's worth. Humble Bundle is one of the things that disprove that idea.

The market has decided that most titles aren't worth the $60 or so being asked. It's the publishers' job to do something about it.
 
2013-07-06 11:55:42 AM  
Same goes for apps. Android users think they should not have to pay for shiat.
 
2013-07-06 11:55:51 AM  

cman: I don't think its a sense of entitlement. I think its us being American.


This.

The best lesson being a gamer has taught me is how to change the game I'm playing. Pissed off on the road because I can't drive faster than the other guy? Fine, I'll win the "save more gas" game. Pissed at work because the other guy got the promotion? Fine, I'll win the "be the most supportive member on the team" game.

/watching other people react to my ability to nearly instantly let go of disappointment is bonus entertainment
 
2013-07-06 11:57:07 AM  

SphericalTime: Also, if you already bought one of the $60 THQ games that are included in the bundle, throwing another 5 dollars on top to get the other games would significantly ease my mind about the average. There's no way to know how many gamers bought one of the bundled games prior to the bundles.


I had almost all of them, which is why I didn't shell out a lot. These games are like a clearance sale... anyone who REALLY wanted them already had them and paid a decent price (I bought SR3 for about $30 a year or so after release, for instance). Letting them go on the HB is like throwing cassettes of INXS into the bargain bin at the front of the record store for a dollar - to scrape in the last few bucks they can from people who would not have bought the games otherwise. It worked to the tune of five million dollars.
 
2013-07-06 12:09:46 PM  
"So, on average, how much did the gamers think all of those games were worth? $5.76. Seriously. On average, gamers gave themselves a 97% discount. Let that sink in for a bit. 97%."

So, what you're saying is that you don't understand how a free market works when you make an item "pay what you want."

"When we're not practically stealing games from the Humble Bundle, we're throwing our toys around and threatening with "I'll just pirate it anyway", so we're forced to have our DRM like medicine because it's for our own good."

This is a joke, right?

"Let's lose the sense of entitlement, let's start acting like adults and we'll be treated with more trust, more respect, and maybe the industry will grow up a little bit, to everyone's benefit."

More shaming language targeted at men to "grow up."  I don't need this woman telling me how to act when the people "selling" this software CHOSE to make it "pay what you want."  You're getting customers to buy something that would never have bought it in the first place.  So, fark you and YOUR sense of entitlement.
 
2013-07-06 12:11:59 PM  

Mangoose: 2 things:

1) The sense of entitlement that comes with being a gameralive

2) The point of the humble bundles is pay what you can or think something is worth. For everyone giving 5 dollars or less, there was someone giving more. Some people only bought it as a passing curiosity, others to support a company. Others for whatever reason. It's sort of like a socialist version of a groupon deal. With no set cash out point. If you can and want to give 10000 do so. If you can't or don't want to, don't. Everyone knows that going into it.


The article said nothing about THQ not understanding what they were getting into. It was questioning why gamers undervalue other peoples' hard work so much. Because despite "someone giving more" it still averaged just over $5 -- which is absurd.

You were right about 'socialist' though -- the future should be "interesting."
 
2013-07-06 12:12:20 PM  
deepfriar.files.wordpress.com

Oh, wait....
 
2013-07-06 12:12:49 PM  

cman: I don't think its a sense of entitlement. I think its us being American.


Thanks for being redundant.

As for the author...

I give her props for being a female and using that title and the article not being about perceived sexism. Kudos for breaking the stereotype off. Especially with that buzzcut she's wearing.

But the article is just wrong...

Many if not all of those games were old, so using full MSRP is flawed.

Also, you can't give people a lot of value and tell them to pay whatever they want, then expect to be paid the same as store prices... There's a limit to what the average will pay regardless of value. I think that price is between 5-10 dollars. So THQ would have gotten MUCH better profits if they would have made three $80 bundles instead of giving a single one with store price of $230. I'm sure people will pay $5 for two of their games and would have thought paying $15 for 7 was a fantastic deal.

It's not just "games". If you offer Porsches in a "pay as much as you want" deal, don't expect people to chime in thousands of dollars just because the Porsche is highly priced.
 
2013-07-06 12:14:55 PM  
Excellent. More confirmation that "gamer" now means "lazy and emotionally immature consumer" rather than someone passionate about the mathematical study of game theory.
 
2013-07-06 12:16:02 PM  
So people spent 5 millions for those games in the two weeks or however long the bundle was available.
And how much was spent on those games during the two weeks before thatn bundle went on sale (or in the two weeks before the bundle was announced if you want)?

My guess is it wasn't more than 5 millions or the company wouldn't have been in trouble.
 
2013-07-06 12:22:10 PM  
Article seems more about the sense of entitlement from game publishers, as written from the perspective of a brown-noser.
 
2013-07-06 12:22:23 PM  
Stay in the basement, you cheeto dust covered slouch...
 
2013-07-06 12:27:37 PM  
I still haven't forgiven THQ for Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain.
 
2013-07-06 12:27:38 PM  
Darksiders, Metro 2033, Red Faction: Armageddon, Company of Heroes, CoH: Opposing Fronts, CoH: Tales of Valor and Saints Row: The Third

I have no interest in any of those games.

There's very little that THQ produced that I ever liked.

I bought Juiced 2, for example, and thought it was one of the worst racing games I've ever played.

So I don't think it's fair for the author of this article to go around pointing fingers at all the consumers he supposedly blames.

Most of the blame lies on THQ.  Their games were pretty crappy.
 
2013-07-06 12:27:59 PM  
TL;DR

/should have been an animated cut scene then I would have watched it
 
2013-07-06 12:29:56 PM  
rocky_howard
Also, you can't give people a lot of value and tell them to pay whatever they want, then expect to be paid the same as store prices... There's a limit to what the average will pay regardless of value.

Expanding on this a bit, the reason we became a prix fixe culture is exactly because MSRP favors the producer so heavily.

Bargaining brings balance to the market in ways that would make a horrible George Lucas trilogy.
 
2013-07-06 12:31:53 PM  
Behold, the free market at work!!!

And lo, did the companies making content complain!
 
2013-07-06 12:32:51 PM  
There seems to be no end of shills justifying MS's behavior.

/And when I hear, "maybe they went too far with DRM, but... " that is a very strong indicator they are shills.

MS should have gone completely with a steam based model or stayed with the disk is required.  I just saw this steve jobs interview.  He was saying that at somepoint in an organizations lifeline, it may be mostly about marketing badly implemented ideas.  MS hit that wall hard with the Xbox telescreen.
 
2013-07-06 12:35:12 PM  

Glitchwerks: Most of the blame lies on THQ.  Their games were pretty crappy.


SR3 is ridiculous amounts of fun.
 
2013-07-06 12:35:29 PM  
The article assumes the labor theory of value. Without it, the question ceases to be "Why do gamers value games so little?" and instead becomes "Why do game makers continue to pour such huge resources into something gamers value so little?" It seems clear to me that developing a game according to the mega-budget blockbuster model doesn't actually increase its value, only its cost.
 
2013-07-06 12:40:40 PM  
Or, to put it another way, for once gamers aren't the entitled ones. A business is not entitled to any particular amount of money: only what it can convince the market to give it in exchange for its goods/services/etc. If that amount of money turns out not to be profitable, that is not the market's problem.

This is the fundamental risk of doing business, whether as a corporation or an individual or anything else. Entitlement is the assertion that one should, for some reason, bypass this risk and head straight to reward.
 
2013-07-06 12:48:10 PM  
Perhaps the reason THQ were going under was that their games just weren't very good. Just because people worked hard on it doesn't mean that it is good and just because the creators said that it's worth $230 doesn't mean that it's actually worth anything.

How bad were the games in the THQ bundle? I didn't 'buy' it. I could have had it for free and I didn't take it. The time and bandwidth it would have taken me to fill out the form and download it was worth more to me than those games.

Also the argument about people "pirating" the humble bundles is nonsense. If you can 'buy' it for $0 then sharing the download link is no different to the people who use the link going to the humble bundle site and 'buying' it themselves for $0 - in fact, counter to her argument, it actually saves the humble bundle website bandwidth by not requiring them to serve the page.
 
2013-07-06 12:50:45 PM  

Dragonflew: SR3 is ridiculous amounts of fun.


I played SR1 and SR2, and I just didn't like them.  Not my type of games, to be honest.
 
2013-07-06 01:00:45 PM  

Millennium: The article assumes the labor theory of value. Without it, the question ceases to be "Why do gamers value games so little?" and instead becomes "Why do game makers continue to pour such huge resources into something gamers value so little?" It seems clear to me that developing a game according to the mega-budget blockbuster model doesn't actually increase its value, only its cost.


This has been my conclusion as well.

I call it the Bruckheimer Effect: how to get the rubes to pay a premium by providing audio/visual overstimulation.

The games I love the most have been Indie-shop low-graphics productions with solid gameplay like FTL, Minecraft, Terraria, the Binding of Isaac, Endless Space, and I'm really excited about a game under development called Starbound.

I don't *like* that they're low graphics - the point is that their solid gameplay more than makes up for the lack of glitz (Special exception for Endless Space - I don't normally like 4X games but their information presentation system is a thing of beauty).

The games I played only once and have literally accumulated dust are the $60 titles that I keep around visible and filthy as an abject reminder to stop wasting my money.
 
2013-07-06 01:00:50 PM  

enik: Mangoose: 2 things:

1) The sense of entitlement that comes with being a gameralive

2) The point of the humble bundles is pay what you can or think something is worth. For everyone giving 5 dollars or less, there was someone giving more. Some people only bought it as a passing curiosity, others to support a company. Others for whatever reason. It's sort of like a socialist version of a groupon deal. With no set cash out point. If you can and want to give 10000 do so. If you can't or don't want to, don't. Everyone knows that going into it.

The article said nothing about THQ not understanding what they were getting into. It was questioning why gamers undervalue other peoples' hard work so much. Because despite "someone giving more" it still averaged just over $5 -- which is absurd.

You were right about 'socialist' though -- the future should be "interesting."


I paid six dollars for that bundle which was awhile ago. So far, I spent about ten minutes playing saints row the third and wasn't impressed. Not mad because it was only six bucks and they got money from me they wouldn't have otherwise. How is that ridiculous?
 
2013-07-06 01:07:51 PM  
It's hard to value games at $60 when you're still trying to catch up on the older ones--which run $8-15--that you've missed during their initial release.
 
2013-07-06 01:13:19 PM  

Glitchwerks: Dragonflew: SR3 is ridiculous amounts of fun.

I played SR1 and SR2, and I just didn't like them.  Not my type of games, to be honest.


I was not fond of the feel of the first couple. I own SR2 but never play it. Something about the physics/mechanics seemed off to me. They fixed that in SR3, and I love me some sandbox games. I am looking forward to SR4 but won't be getting it on launch... I have a hundred or so games I have not even cracked open yet.
 
2013-07-06 01:13:23 PM  
When she went off the rails complaining about people complaining about DRM, she lost all credibility.

It's not entitlement if I want to use the consumer good I purchased, and now own, in a manner of my choosing. General Electric doesn't tell me how I can use my toaster, and Ford can't tell me I have to pay them a fee to drive a used Taurus I bought from someone else.
 
2013-07-06 01:13:32 PM  
We're not gamers, in a sense, but consumers.  We are entitled to not pay through the nose for a steaming pile of shiat if we so choose.

That's about where the buck stops as far as gamers(as a whole group) go concerning entitlement.

Yes, she writes like a shill.
 
2013-07-06 01:14:36 PM  
Apart from Company if Heroes, the THQ bundle was generally meh anyways...
 
2013-07-06 01:15:59 PM  

picturescrazy: enik: Mangoose: 2 things:

1) The sense of entitlement that comes with being a gameralive

2) The point of the humble bundles is pay what you can or think something is worth. For everyone giving 5 dollars or less, there was someone giving more. Some people only bought it as a passing curiosity, others to support a company. Others for whatever reason. It's sort of like a socialist version of a groupon deal. With no set cash out point. If you can and want to give 10000 do so. If you can't or don't want to, don't. Everyone knows that going into it.

The article said nothing about THQ not understanding what they were getting into. It was questioning why gamers undervalue other peoples' hard work so much. Because despite "someone giving more" it still averaged just over $5 -- which is absurd.

You were right about 'socialist' though -- the future should be "interesting."

I paid six dollars for that bundle which was awhile ago. So far, I spent about ten minutes playing saints row the third and wasn't impressed. Not mad because it was only six bucks and they got money from me they wouldn't have otherwise. How is that ridiculous?


Regarding SR3: it has a lengthy introduction. If you only played for ten minutes you probably haven't gotten past that. The "real" game doesn't start until after the bank robbery, jailbreak and... well, you'll find out.

I thought it was fun.
 
2013-07-06 01:28:28 PM  
Look I'll be the first to admit, I am no saint. I paid $15 for my copy of the Double Fine Bundle, which by all rights I should have paid $130. I was still well above the average, but that doesn't absolve me.

You value them as much as you value them. Just because those games would have sold at retail for $130, doesn't mean they are worth $130 to you. If they were, you would have bought them all new. I see nothing immoral or even strange about this transaction. THQ has an extra $15 in their pocket, and you have a bunch of old games that you may or may not even play through.
 
2013-07-06 01:34:04 PM  
The Humble Bundle is for  charity that just happens to give you games as a freebee thank-you.

Heck, you could have paid $1,000 for the bundle, and allocated 100% to the charity and none to the developer if you wanted to.
 
2013-07-06 01:54:10 PM  

Tommy Moo: Look I'll be the first to admit, I am no saint. I paid $15 for my copy of the Double Fine Bundle, which by all rights I should have paid $130. I was still well above the average, but that doesn't absolve me.

You value them as much as you value them. Just because those games would have sold at retail for $130, doesn't mean they are worth $130 to you. If they were, you would have bought them all new. I see nothing immoral or even strange about this transaction. THQ has an extra $15 in their pocket, and you have a bunch of old games that you may or may not even play through.


Exactly, it isn't like you paid 15 bucks and THQ lost a copy of those games they could have sold to someone else for 50 bucks.  It's all digital, so if I pay 1.00 for the game they still have copies they can sell to other people.  It's just not worth more than 1.00 to me.
 
2013-07-06 02:08:42 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Same goes for apps. Android users think they should not have to pay for shiat.


I'm ok with the ads larded onto apps I get for free.   The mild annoyance is an acceptable "price" to pay.
 
2013-07-06 02:12:52 PM  
shrugs, it's not our job to support video games

it's just entertainment, how much entertainment is worth to each person is really up to them and not that big of a deal

does anybody give a shiat when people buy bargain-bin dvd's at wal-mart instead of buying 5 tickets to some 3d imax wallet-rape-fest? no, of course not
 
2013-07-06 02:13:03 PM  
Yeah, how about no.  If you'd never buy the games at full retail price, why the fark would you voluntarily offer up lots of money for them if given another option?  The games are only worth as much as the consumer is willing to pay for them.  In the case of the THQ bundle - no one wanted their games.  I mean fark, my friends own a few THQ games and I never even bothered borrowing them - for free!  Waste of my time.
 
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