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(Daily Mail)   Does your AK-47 seem a little sluggish lately? Well, this guy's ill-advised experiment appears to indicate that it actually operates faster underwater   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 64
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4845 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Jul 2013 at 6:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-04 05:28:02 PM
Ill-conceived?  Looks like a nice set-up and note they had already done it before.

Just needed more camera angles.
 
2013-07-04 06:25:37 PM
So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?
 
2013-07-04 06:27:38 PM

Lord Jubjub: Ill-conceived?  Looks like a nice set-up and note they had already done it before.

Just needed more camera angles.


Ill-conceived != ill-advised

It might be really thought out, but not something everyone should do.

/DNRTFA
 
2013-07-04 06:30:53 PM
But... but... every FPS I've played says you can't fire underwater.  Don't tell me that the same video games that say I should hate brown people have lied to me!
 
2013-07-04 06:43:50 PM
Whenever I see "AK-47", that Cypress Hill song pops into my head. It's a permanently embedded memory with a trigger.

A to the motherfarking K homeboy
A to the motherfarking K
(A to the K)
A to the motherfarking K homeboy
A to the motherfarking K
(Motherfarking K)
A to the motherfarking K homeboy
A to the motherfarking K
(A to the K)
A to the motherfarking K homeboy
A to the motherfarking K
 
2013-07-04 06:58:43 PM

andrewagill: But... but... every FPS I've played says you can't fire underwater.  Don't tell me that the same video games that say I should hate brown people have lied to me!


Frankly, they're doing you a favor by not allowing you to fire underwater. Sure it'll fire (reliably, with some weapons), but your effective range will be *somewhat* reduced.

Stick with the knife!
 
2013-07-04 07:00:36 PM

optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?


Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.
 
2013-07-04 07:09:37 PM

andrewagill: But... but... every FPS I've played says you can't fire underwater.  Don't tell me that the same video games that say I should hate brown people have lied to me!




Guess you never played this.

www.digitaltrends.com
 
2013-07-04 07:09:54 PM
This is good news whenever we decide to attack Atlantis.
 
2013-07-04 07:27:41 PM

doglover: optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?

Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.


The parts are actually loose-fitting intentionally. The idea being that any dirt or sand that gets into the weapon will just be blown out again when it fires. Reading a history of the rifle right now.
 
2013-07-04 07:29:59 PM

aelat: , but your effective range will be *somewhat* reduced.


Likewise with the shooter's hearing and a few compressible cavities if they're underwater with it...
 
2013-07-04 07:32:37 PM
does it really operate faster? i notice the bolt is pushed back quicker, but they cut away before the bolt comes all the way back to 'set' position or whatever gun people call it. i think the water resistance may slow it down enough on the return trip to make them comparable speeds. he needs to try this with automatic fire in a swimming pool just to be sure.


andrewagill: But... but... every FPS I've played says you can't fire underwater.  Don't tell me that the same video games that say I should hate brown people have lied to me!


never had this problem with the ak in gta: vice city because apparently water is an instagib... nice sandbox
 
2013-07-04 07:53:59 PM

andrewagill: But... but... every FPS I've played says you can't fire underwater.  Don't tell me that the same video games that say I should hate brown people have lied to me!




Its terribly ill advised.
Your looking at tens of thousands of pounds pressure on the chamber, gas tube, and barrel. Now were just going to flood the thing moving parts with water (and any dirt its displaced) and set off explosions. Bearing in mind that these machines carry the minimal metal needed to do the job in an effort to save weight.

Guns can work underwater, but there isn't much of a call for shooting there and the ballistics are screwy at best. I can see why people would be extremely hesitant to try this or just assume it doesn't end well.
 
2013-07-04 07:59:05 PM

fusillade762: doglover: optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?

Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.

The parts are actually loose-fitting intentionally. The idea being that any dirt or sand that gets into the weapon will just be blown out again when it fires. Reading a history of the rifle right now.


One of Browning's machine guns was testfired at the Pentagon range for something like 45 minutes straight. When the gun stopped firing Browning panicked and was about to start fixing it while parts were still red hot till one of his assitants got his attention and showed hin they'd run out of ammo belts.
 
2013-07-04 08:17:00 PM
An underwater Russian rifle?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-04 08:21:02 PM

doglover: fusillade762: doglover: optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?

Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.

The parts are actually loose-fitting intentionally. The idea being that any dirt or sand that gets into the weapon will just be blown out again when it fires. Reading a history of the rifle right now.

One of Browning's machine guns was testfired at the Pentagon range for something like 45 minutes straight. When the gun stopped firing Browning panicked and was about to start fixing it while parts were still red hot till one of his assitants got his attention and showed hin they'd run out of ammo belts.


There's a similar story in the book: only in this one they stopped because an animal had wandered onto the test range.
 
2013-07-04 08:22:28 PM

divgradcurl: does it really operate faster? i notice the bolt is pushed back quicker, but they cut away before the bolt comes all the way back to 'set' position or whatever gun people call it. i think the water resistance may slow it down enough on the return trip to make them comparable speeds. he needs to try this with automatic fire in a swimming pool just to be sure.


andrewagill: But... but... every FPS I've played says you can't fire underwater.  Don't tell me that the same video games that say I should hate brown people have lied to me!

never had this problem with the ak in gta: vice city because apparently water is an instagib... nice sandbox




Battery.
 
2013-07-04 08:23:01 PM

doglover: fusillade762: doglover: optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?

Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.

The parts are actually loose-fitting intentionally. The idea being that any dirt or sand that gets into the weapon will just be blown out again when it fires. Reading a history of the rifle right now.

One of Browning's machine guns was testfired at the Pentagon range for something like 45 minutes straight. When the gun stopped firing Browning panicked and was about to start fixing it while parts were still red hot till one of his assitants got his attention and showed hin they'd run out of ammo belts.


citation needed.
 
2013-07-04 08:23:49 PM
"AK-47, the very best there is.
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every mother farker in the room, accept no substitutes."
 
2013-07-04 08:28:20 PM

turdfergusonn: "AK-47, the very best there is.
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every mother farker in the room, accept no substitutes."


Galil -same gas system, better rifle.

www.israeli-weapons.com
 
2013-07-04 08:57:17 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: turdfergusonn: "AK-47, the very best there is.
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every mother farker in the room, accept no substitutes."

Galil -same gas system, better rifle.

[www.israeli-weapons.com image 537x211]




Whatever noob.
fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-07-04 09:23:11 PM

Somaticasual: aelat: , but your effective range will be *somewhat* reduced.

Likewise with the shooter's hearing and a few compressible cavities if they're underwater with it...


From accounts, it's actually really minimal.  Light "whump", not nearly as bad as firing above the water.  Something to do with the speed of sound in water vs. the air.
 
2013-07-04 09:46:10 PM

"Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars."


1.bp.blogspot.com

 
2013-07-04 10:07:07 PM
fusillade762:
doglover: optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?

Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.

The parts are actually loose-fitting intentionally. The idea being that any dirt or sand that gets into the weapon will just be blown out again when it fires. Reading a history of the rifle right now.


You can see that in the video.  In the slow mo shot of the bolt  moving back during firing, the whole thing just kind of... flops around.  Really loosey goosey.  My "extensive" automatic weapons experience includes Army Reserve training on the C7 (M16) and I can guarantee you the bolt could not jiggle around like a pocketful of loose change the way that did.
 
2013-07-04 10:15:51 PM

No Such Agency: fusillade762:
doglover: optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?

Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.

The parts are actually loose-fitting intentionally. The idea being that any dirt or sand that gets into the weapon will just be blown out again when it fires. Reading a history of the rifle right now.

You can see that in the video.  In the slow mo shot of the bolt  moving back during firing, the whole thing just kind of... flops around.  Really loosey goosey.  My "extensive" automatic weapons experience includes Army Reserve training on the C7 (M16) and I can guarantee you the bolt could not jiggle around like a pocketful of loose change the way that did.




I worked on these and would love to see a water test.

/misses the m61
 
2013-07-04 10:16:26 PM
www.lizpope.com
Doh.
 
2013-07-04 10:18:25 PM
Hmmm, an AK-47 modified to fire cal .50 bullets... And built-in mini-chainsaw...
 
2013-07-04 10:57:03 PM
Lots of guns will fire underwater, as far as I know. I think it's more a function of cartridge-style ammunition or modern chemistry than the gun itself.

I'm ignorant of the chemistry involved in gunpowder, but I've thought for a long time it must have some oxygen chemically bound up in it. Nothing burns without oxygen, but a weapon submerged underwater doesn't have any air available. Still fires, though. Maybe the cartridges are air- and water-tight, but then it seems like the primer/powder still wouldn't have any air available even when the weapon's not submerged...

This is something I've thought about a fair bit. I've never studied it out, though, because I'm surprisingly lazy.
 
2013-07-04 10:59:49 PM

StoPPeRmobile: [www.lizpope.com image 640x480]
Doh.


Snakes don't belong in Alaska.
 
2013-07-04 11:16:48 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: I'm ignorant of the chemistry involved in gunpowder, but I've thought for a long time it must have some oxygen chemically bound up in it. Nothing burns without oxygen, but a weapon submerged underwater doesn't have any air available. Still fires, though. Maybe the cartridges are air- and water-tight, but then it seems like the primer/powder still wouldn't have any air available even when the weapon's not submerged

.

Gunpowder doesn't need air/oxygen to burn.
 
2013-07-04 11:23:38 PM

Befuddled: Fuggin Bizzy: I'm ignorant of the chemistry involved in gunpowder, but I've thought for a long time it must have some oxygen chemically bound up in it. Nothing burns without oxygen, but a weapon submerged underwater doesn't have any air available. Still fires, though. Maybe the cartridges are air- and water-tight, but then it seems like the primer/powder still wouldn't have any air available even when the weapon's not submerged.

Gunpowder doesn't need air/oxygen to burn.


More accurately, gunpowder contains an oxidizer, so while it does need oxygen to burn it brings its own. Doesn't need any from its surroundings.
 
2013-07-04 11:24:04 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: Lots of guns will fire underwater, as far as I know. I think it's more a function of cartridge-style ammunition or modern chemistry than the gun itself.

I'm ignorant of the chemistry involved in gunpowder, but I've thought for a long time it must have some oxygen chemically bound up in it. Nothing burns without oxygen, but a weapon submerged underwater doesn't have any air available. Still fires, though. Maybe the cartridges are air- and water-tight, but then it seems like the primer/powder still wouldn't have any air available even when the weapon's not submerged...

This is something I've thought about a fair bit. I've never studied it out, though, because I'm surprisingly lazy.


Yes, the oxygen is bound within the gunpowder.  A nitrate is one of the necessary ingredients, usually Potassium Nitrate, KNO3.  As such, it does not require atmospheric oxygen.

Though, you also don't need oxygen to permit a fire, it's kind of false to have it in the fire triangle.  You need an oxidizer, which is any element at the far right of the periodic table which are capable of taking on extra electrons readily.  For instance, fluorine is quite capable of permitting burning in the absence of any oxygen, usually on contact since it's so highly reactive.  The farther down the periodic table you go, the more energy it takes to initiate it though, so sulfur is good at allowing things to burn, just not as good as oxygen (which is also why sulfur is added to gunpowder, as it's a solid that lowers the energy needed to cause it to burn).
 
2013-07-04 11:28:34 PM

Somaticasual: aelat: , but your effective range will be *somewhat* reduced.

Likewise with the shooter's hearing and a few compressible cavities if they're underwater with it...


There's a number of Youtube videos of people firing weapons underwater in their pools. They don't have any problems.
 
2013-07-04 11:29:49 PM
Sluggish, like a wet sponge?
cdn1.hark.com
 
2013-07-04 11:38:16 PM
Still risky, IMO. Increased pressure on the bolt and firing chamber. Only a matter of time before it blows up.

The Soviets did create a weapon designed to fire underwater IIRC similar in design.
 
2013-07-04 11:41:14 PM
 
2013-07-04 11:49:57 PM

violentsalvation: StoPPeRmobile: [www.lizpope.com image 640x480]
Doh.

Snakes don't belong in Alaska.




OMG those belts are a pain in the ass to repair.

I've whacked a few.

/Try it with live rounds
 
2013-07-04 11:50:51 PM
no kidding?  Paging Rick Romero.

the AK-47 was originally designed for use in the Navy.
 
2013-07-05 12:06:16 AM

StoPPeRmobile: [www.lizpope.com image 640x480]
Doh.


IT IS COWARD KILLING TIME!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFx12VoXAIA
 
2013-07-05 12:56:51 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: no kidding?  Paging Rick Romero.

the AK-47 was originally designed for use in the Navy.


The Russian Navy, naturally.
 
2013-07-05 01:06:34 AM
Incompressible fluid.

Well, we say incompressible. I have a table of water densities at various pressures, but it's not much. Unless you're dealing with improbable depths or turbopumps where you need to perform FEA.
 
2013-07-05 01:18:19 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: tenpoundsofcheese: no kidding?  Paging Rick Romero.

the AK-47 was originally designed for use in the Navy.

The Russian Navy, naturally.


Soviet.  Not Russian.
 
2013-07-05 01:18:58 AM

LrdPhoenix: Yes, the oxygen is bound within the gunpowder. ...


Awesome response, thanks for the informative post.
 
2013-07-05 01:31:10 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: turdfergusonn: "AK-47, the very best there is.
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every mother farker in the room, accept no substitutes."

Galil -same gas system, better rifle.

[www.israeli-weapons.com image 537x211]


Galil makes fine weaponry. Some of the best in the world, in fact. However- the  Avtomat  Kalashnikova is one of the most used battle rifles in the modern era and it has proven itself one of the best. Shame the creator is not a very wealthy person.
 
2013-07-05 03:00:37 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: LrdPhoenix: Yes, the oxygen is bound within the gunpowder. ...

Awesome response, thanks for the informative post.


Welcome.

By the way, Fluorine is actually the best oxidizer there is.  It oxidizes things so quickly and vehemently and which such little energy needed to start it going that it will cause almost anything and everything it touches to burst into flames at room temperature, compared with the few hundred degrees extra you might need to set fire to most things within oxygen.
 
2013-07-05 04:16:11 AM

andrewagill: But... but... every FPS I've played says you can't fire underwater.  Don't tell me that the same video games that say I should hate brown people have lied to me!


WTF kind of games are you playing?
 
2013-07-05 04:35:42 AM

Somaticasual: aelat: , but your effective range will be *somewhat* reduced.

Likewise with the shooter's hearing and a few compressible cavities if they're underwater with it...


Water is incompressible. Hence, the force transferred to the water is equivalent to the volume of water displaced by the exhaust. I don't know the exact figures, but it certainly can't displace more water than a basketball or so- there's just not enough energy in there. In an open body of water (such as an aquarium or a pool) all that displaced volume just rises the water level a little smidgen. It certainly can't be any worse than someone doing a cannon-ball right next to you.

If that couldn't happen, like if you were in a closed tank, then that basketball-sized displacement WOULD be displaced out of your cavities... and then you would have a very bad day.
 
2013-07-05 07:14:02 AM
Nobody ever said that people who like to play with guns were smart.
Dumbf**k should see if it works up his ass.
 
2013-07-05 07:36:35 AM

LrdPhoenix: Fuggin Bizzy: LrdPhoenix: Yes, the oxygen is bound within the gunpowder. ...

Awesome response, thanks for the informative post.

Welcome.

By the way, Fluorine is actually the best oxidizer there is.  It oxidizes things so quickly and vehemently and which such little energy needed to start it going that it will cause almost anything and everything it touches to burst into flames at room temperature, compared with the few hundred degrees extra you might need to set fire to most things within oxygen.


I believe breathable liquids use fluorine as a base because it can hold so much oxygen, though I don't understand the underlying chemistry at all it seems pretty neat.
 
2013-07-05 07:58:32 AM

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: doglover: fusillade762: doglover: optional: So the AK-47 is the only gun that actually functions better the more you abuse it?

Not the only one, but one of the most famous.

America's made some pretty failsafe weapons in the past.

The parts are actually loose-fitting intentionally. The idea being that any dirt or sand that gets into the weapon will just be blown out again when it fires. Reading a history of the rifle right now.

One of Browning's machine guns was testfired at the Pentagon range for something like 45 minutes straight. When the gun stopped firing Browning panicked and was about to start fixing it while parts were still red hot till one of his assitants got his attention and showed hin they'd run out of ammo belts.

citation needed.


I'm on my phone, so no hyperlinky, but I believe the wikipedia article on the Browning M1917 machine gun (the one doglover is referring to) has that little factiod. 21,000 rounds straight without a failure. Browning, Maxim, and Vickers water-cooled machine guns can basically fire indefinitely as long as there's ammo, water to cool the barrels, and maybe spare barrels just in case. You have to remember these guns were used in WW1, mowing down human waves of thousands of men. No time for short controlled bursts. Just more dakka dakka than you can shake a stick at.
 
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