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(BBC)   France: I'm shocked, SHOCKED to find the United States has been doing spying on this scale! Le Monde: Your winnings, sir   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 24
    More: Followup, Le Monde, United States, terrorist cells, newspapers in France, GCHQ  
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5289 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jul 2013 at 5:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



24 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-04 05:18:43 PM
Oh, that's definitely worth a +1, submitter.
 
2013-07-04 05:29:33 PM
Exclamation point in a headline

Its like finding a five leaf clover
 
2013-07-04 05:44:53 PM
Nice subby~! +1
 
2013-07-04 05:51:08 PM
Good that some of this stuff is finally being pulled into the sunlight.
 
2013-07-04 05:54:09 PM
a France-related article without the word "surrenders" in the headline?
 
2013-07-04 05:55:47 PM
I totally thought this was Tour De France related.
 
2013-07-04 05:59:03 PM
Bravo, Subby.
 
2013-07-04 05:59:32 PM

jakomo002: Good that some of this stuff is finally being pulled into the sunlight.


The fact that the DGSE and BND have been doing this has been public knowledge for decades.
 
2013-07-04 06:01:36 PM
If you don't think that every country with an ounce of power is spying on each other, friend or foe, as well as its citizens then you are a fool.

I hope more countries' dirty laundry is aired. It would be interesting to see at what great lengths their spy programs go.
 
2013-07-04 06:01:48 PM
"Air France Denies Spying on Travelers," New York Times, Sept. 14, 1991.  That was part of broad industrial espionage against U.S. tech companies, in particular IBM.  Groupe Bull execs used to boast about their "special knowledge" of IBM product plans.  Link
 
2013-07-04 06:05:37 PM
Don't act so surprised, Sister. You know we're all sneaky bastards.

I read an article yesterday in the local paper that said the US is not spying on Canada. Of course, you have to write that with a *.

But it went on to tell about the Five Eyes, which sounds like a great name for a conspiracy theory or secret society. And it is, sort of.

Five countries, the US, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (IIRC), have the habit of sharing their intelligence freely. They tend not to spy on each other (much) for this reason.

I knew about Project Echelon, which as created when I was a child if not before, and which involves spying on a global scale on communicatons such as telegraphs, telephones, radio, television, etc. I have always assumed that these partners pretty much have been doing this forever and that they have access to almost everything you write or say via machine (or in some cases NEAR a machine).

I'm about as surprised by Snowden's revelations as I am by a Canadian Winter. Well, not strictly true--Canadians are always surprised by Winter. We keep hoping it won't happen this year. It very rarely fails to arrive.

Canada is to all intents and purposes, inside of Fortress America. And if you hate the Brits and think they are at the bottom of all conspiracies, as many American conspiracy theorists and even sane people do, then you will think of the Five Eyes as the Beast, which is to say, the continuation of the British Empire covertly, with or without a change of capital (in both senses of those words) from London to Washington or possibly the secret capital of the USA, New York City.

It saddens me to think I may never visit the USA again. You need a passport now. Until a Southern conspiracy invaded the State of Vermont from Quebec in the War that Dare Not Speak It's Name, there were no guard posts or customs check points on the US-Canada border. You could walk freely across the border any where.

And until the late XIXth century and panic over not-white-enough Europeans and non-whites and anarchists and commies, nobody bothered to take your name and particulars when you crossed the border through a check point.

Those border crossing records are very useful to us amateur genealogists. They include physical data such as hair and eye colour and a rough estimated of height. They are the only way you can find out what your ancestors looked like if you don't have portraits or photos.

But this is very interesting stuff to know about, so there is an upside and a downside to government paranoia.
 
2013-07-04 06:09:02 PM

mekki: If you don't think that every country with an ounce of power is spying on each other, friend or foe, as well as its citizens then you are a fool.


Americans have a predictable response to this stuff.  Helps em sleep.  ("Well of COURSE I knew, you're just naive!")

chrylis: The fact that the DGSE and BND have been doing this has been public knowledge for decades.


Public assumption maybe.  When it hits the papers it makes deniability impossible.  Now it's irrefutable fact.
 
2013-07-04 06:14:28 PM
Nestor de Roqueplan, a French literary man, early 1800s, was wont to say of unoriginal thinking, "C'est imprimé" which means that it is already in print.

These "conspiracies" have their own Wikipedia articles, and like the NSA, have been around for quite some time.

I got 310,000 Google hits for "Five Eyes" in quotation marks. "Project Echelon" gets only 18,800 although it is often discussed as just Echelon, which gets 18,000,000.

You can go seriously demented if you try to follow the conspiracy theories and plots. They are protean, they merge and swap genes even faster and more easily than bacteria.
 
2013-07-04 06:18:53 PM
This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
 
2013-07-04 06:29:59 PM
Countries spy on one another. Where's Ric Romero when you need him?
 
2013-07-04 07:47:02 PM
I'm on Snowden's side in all this, but as far as France goes, they need to figure out how the Internet works and stop it themselves. That's two different things.
 
2013-07-04 07:56:29 PM
THAT is a magnificent headline.

I think this particular headline meme can now be considered to have been "perfected" and can safely be retired.

/or copied pitilessly
 
2013-07-04 08:08:32 PM
Yeah, before you can claim the moral high ground, you better be sure you're actually standing on it.

Or as they say in legalese, you don't have "unclean hands."
 
2013-07-04 10:03:02 PM
Obama should make a self-righteous holier than thou statement criticizing France for their  spy activities.  Lol.
 
2013-07-04 11:06:37 PM
No, subby. Your winnings. They're all your winnings. This headline is full of them.
 
2013-07-05 01:01:19 AM
90% of infantry weapons during our Revolution came from France.  Vive la France!
Then we saved their ass twice. Sacrebleu!
Then France went and honored American dead with the greatest war cemeteries ever, and still turn out in their tens of thousands to honor us. C'est Beau!
So, Washington returns the gestures of honor by spying on everyone in France. Merde!
 
2013-07-05 04:11:35 AM

jakomo002: Good that some of this stuff is finally being pulled into the sunlight.


If PRISM shocks you, you haven't been paying attention.  This shiat's been going on, pretty much in plain sight, for over a decade.  

The people who are complaining the loudet now are the ones who were turning a blind eye to it when it was Bush who was spying on them.
 
2013-07-05 04:16:14 AM

Clemkadidlefark: So, Washington returns the gestures of honor by spying on everyone in France. Merde!


Our intelligence agencies aren't allowed to spy on our citizens.   Our allies' intelligence agencies aren't allowed to spy on their citizens.   So, we spy on theirs and they spy on ours, and they all share the data.  

That's pretty much the essence of ECHELON, and that's been an open secret since at least the 80s, if not longer.
 
2013-07-05 10:26:58 AM
So: anyone still think that these countries reject or are trying to catch Snowden because of U.S. pressure rather than for their own selfish reasons?
 
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