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(Some Guy)   Old and busted: your arm. Old hotness: plaster cast. New coolness: 3D printed exoskeleton   (jakevilldesign.dunked.com) divider line 60
    More: Cool, Exoskeleton  
•       •       •

4346 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Jul 2013 at 2:01 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-03 10:06:01 PM
Okay, that's pretty awesome!
 
2013-07-03 11:29:59 PM
That is extremely cool, except that I need to be able to not see the broken arm.  I'm an unreasonable fainter.
 
2013-07-03 11:34:29 PM
It's about frakkin' time.

This is one of those extremely brilliant things that seems extremely obvious in hindsight. All a cast needs to do is immobilize and support (with a degree of protection implied in both). It does not have to be a completely enclosed solid case of plaster and/or fiberglass. It's ridiculous that people still have to deal with uncomfortable itching and an inability to wash wearing a cast.

I guess we just needed technology to catch up and make it possible.

So, props to these folks. Well done. :)
 
2013-07-03 11:41:11 PM
So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?
 
2013-07-03 11:58:51 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?


Probably a shrinking series of them.
 
2013-07-04 12:40:32 AM

violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?

Probably a shrinking series of them.


That doesn't sound at all expensive.
 
2013-07-04 01:24:22 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?

Probably a shrinking series of them.

That doesn't sound at all expensive.


When my ex broke her arm she had a new cast everyday for the better part of a week. The swelling would go down and she could rattle the thing around on her arm every time the swelling went down a bit. Which is why I don't think we'll see this new technology in our emergency rooms anytime soon. It can't be cost-effective. Maybe with high-end specialists. Maybe after someone finally kneecaps Justin Beeeeber we will get to see this put to use.
 
2013-07-04 02:08:07 AM
Ok, I'm pretty damned techno-jaded, but I like this.  Again, one of those things that's obvious as hell in hindsight.
 
2013-07-04 02:10:32 AM

violentsalvation: Which is why I don't think we'll see this new technology in our emergency rooms anytime soon. It can't be cost-effective.


Emergency rooms are cost effective?  They care about costs?

Ut oh, you fell down?  You gotta get a $2000 PET scan, just in case!

They make everything stupidly expensive because they can.
 
2013-07-04 02:13:52 AM
This is likely to cause a meltdown at an airport security checkpoint the first time someone shows up sporting one.
 
2013-07-04 02:16:24 AM

violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?

Probably a shrinking series of them.

That doesn't sound at all expensive.

When my ex broke her arm she had a new cast everyday for the better part of a week. The swelling would go down and she could rattle the thing around on her arm every time the swelling went down a bit. Which is why I don't think we'll see this new technology in our emergency rooms anytime soon. It can't be cost-effective. Maybe with high-end specialists. Maybe after someone finally kneecaps Justin Beeeeber we will get to see this put to use.


Eh? Is getting multiple casts a new thing? I haven't broken a limb for many years (not since high school in the early/mid-90s), but the two times I have broken an arm (once my right ulna, once my left distal-radius; years apart), I just got one cast that stayed on for several weeks, then they took it off, after which I could finally scratch a bunch of itches and scrub off the accumulated dead skin.

Were my doctors in the 80s and 90s doing it wrong?
 
2013-07-04 02:21:01 AM
Uh, ok. How are you suppose to put it on? Slide your arm in? Glue the top half to the bottom half?
 
2013-07-04 02:28:16 AM
Finally. A cast where you can scratch that itch, and sigh I'm contentment.
 
2013-07-04 02:29:14 AM

beer4breakfast: Uh, ok. How are you suppose to put it on? Slide your arm in? Glue the top half to the bottom half?


Came here to ask this. Do you put your arm in the bed of 3D printer powder and let the thing get formed around your arm?
 
2013-07-04 02:32:50 AM

astro716: beer4breakfast: Uh, ok. How are you suppose to put it on? Slide your arm in? Glue the top half to the bottom half?

Came here to ask this. Do you put your arm in the bed of 3D printer powder and let the thing get formed around your arm?


It's simple.  You just, uh...

Well, you see, you, uh...

It looks real cool, dammit!
 
2013-07-04 02:35:01 AM

beer4breakfast: Uh, ok. How are you suppose to put it on? Slide your arm in? Glue the top half to the bottom half?


It's in the caption for the second picture, one side is left open and is then snap closed with fasteners.
 
2013-07-04 02:37:54 AM
My sister recently broke her foot and we wondered why no one had come up with something to replace those hot, itchy casts. These not only solve that problem, but look nifty.
 
2013-07-04 02:47:18 AM
Scratchable skin, washable, it's an idea that will probably help 3d printing become more mainstream.

Nothing wrong with that.

/But don't try shaving your leg through it, ladies
 
2013-07-04 02:48:49 AM

Cytokine Storm: It's in the caption for the second picture, one side is left open and is then snap closed with fasteners.


You'd think the hard part making this work would be shown. Some guy prints out a plastic spiderman sleeve he can slide his arm into and hails it as a cast replacement.
 
2013-07-04 02:50:04 AM
Typing this one handed, as I busted the  fourth metacarpal on my right hand, wearing a loose fitting plaster cast, I am getting a kick, and jealously, out of this article.  I've actually have been thinking of building my own cast, just need the materials.  Why have a cast that goes from fingers to elbow for a busted hand? Just a glove with metal supports at the point of the fracture, and binding the two fingers together?

/10th broken bone in three years
//20th broken bone life time total
 
2013-07-04 02:51:03 AM

Great Janitor: /10th broken bone in three years
//20th broken bone life time total


blog.amhill.net
 
2013-07-04 02:59:28 AM

mamoru: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?

Probably a shrinking series of them.

That doesn't sound at all expensive.

When my ex broke her arm she had a new cast everyday for the better part of a week. The swelling would go down and she could rattle the thing around on her arm every time the swelling went down a bit. Which is why I don't think we'll see this new technology in our emergency rooms anytime soon. It can't be cost-effective. Maybe with high-end specialists. Maybe after someone finally kneecaps Justin Beeeeber we will get to see this put to use.

Eh? Is getting multiple casts a new thing? I haven't broken a limb for many years (not since high school in the early/mid-90s), but the two times I have broken an arm (once my right ulna, once my left distal-radius; years apart), I just got one cast that stayed on for several weeks, then they took it off, after which I could finally scratch a bunch of itches and scrub off the accumulated dead skin.

Were my doctors in the 80s and 90s doing it wrong?


Was thinking the same thing.  I've had three broken arms, and they always just slapped a cast on and left if until it came off.  Maybe I'm just getting old?
 
2013-07-04 03:04:27 AM

violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?

Probably a shrinking series of them.

That doesn't sound at all expensive.

When my ex broke her arm she had a new cast everyday for the better part of a week. The swelling would go down and she could rattle the thing around on her arm every time the swelling went down a bit. Which is why I don't think we'll see this new technology in our emergency rooms anytime soon. It can't be cost-effective. Maybe with high-end specialists. Maybe after someone finally kneecaps Justin Beeeeber we will get to see this put to use.


From your mouth to God's ear.
 
2013-07-04 03:05:58 AM

Great Janitor: Why have a cast that goes from fingers to elbow for a busted hand? Just a glove with metal supports at the point of the fracture, and binding the two fingers together?


The muscles that move your fingers originate in your forearm, so if you don't immobilize the whole thing to start, and the wrist for the duration of healing, the you risk aggravating the break and the bones probably won't set right.
 
2013-07-04 03:06:39 AM

Emposter: mamoru: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?

Probably a shrinking series of them.

That doesn't sound at all expensive.

When my ex broke her arm she had a new cast everyday for the better part of a week. The swelling would go down and she could rattle the thing around on her arm every time the swelling went down a bit. Which is why I don't think we'll see this new technology in our emergency rooms anytime soon. It can't be cost-effective. Maybe with high-end specialists. Maybe after someone finally kneecaps Justin Beeeeber we will get to see this put to use.

Eh? Is getting multiple casts a new thing? I haven't broken a limb for many years (not since high school in the early/mid-90s), but the two times I have broken an arm (once my right ulna, once my left distal-radius; years apart), I just got one cast that stayed on for several weeks, then they took it off, after which I could finally scratch a bunch of itches and scrub off the accumulated dead skin.

Were my doctors in the 80s and 90s doing it wrong?

Was thinking the same thing.  I've had three broken arms, and they always just slapped a cast on and left if until it came off.  Maybe I'm just getting old?


First time I broke my right arm, I shattered the humerus.  My arm went from the shoulder half way down to the elbow, twisted around to the point that the back of my hand was resting against my back.  Spun my arm around, it made a kind of sickening sound as I did it, and did my best to do the manly "I feel no pain.", five minutes later, waiting for the EMTs I was begging for death.  Less than a month later I was able to slip that cast off my arm.  A few months later I got my very first steel plate.
 
2013-07-04 03:41:34 AM
AW, no QA yet?
is 25 posts in some kind of record for a 3d printing thread?
 
2013-07-04 03:45:01 AM

sendtodave: astro716: beer4breakfast: Uh, ok. How are you suppose to put it on? Slide your arm in? Glue the top half to the bottom half?

Came here to ask this. Do you put your arm in the bed of 3D printer powder and let the thing get formed around your arm?

It's simple.  You just, uh...

Well, you see, you, uh...

It looks real cool, dammit!


media.dunkedcdn.com

Read the words.
 
2013-07-04 04:03:33 AM

omeganuepsilon: Read the words.


That's un-'meruca
 
Poe
2013-07-04 04:15:07 AM
Only ever had one broken bone, but it was one of those little ones in my wrist that required surgery, implanted hardware, and a nice stint in plaster, plus another solid plastic brace thing afterwards during therapy.  Would have loved one of these things at the time.  Only downside is you can't get your friends to sign it, but I missed out on that by not breaking anything until way into my 20's, and being able to print in any color would likely make up for it.
 
2013-07-04 04:59:43 AM
How are your friends supposed to sign it?


/never broken a bone, just assorted joint dislocations.
 
2013-07-04 06:25:58 AM
Plus you get to look like Spider-Man
 
2013-07-04 06:31:23 AM
mamoru:Were my doctors in the 80s and 90s doing it wrong?

Different injuries require different treatments would be my guess.  Some breaks require more intensive care, others are just "wash & go" as far as wrapping it in plaster is concerned.

I do echo the sentiments others are asking about how much the machine to make these costs is though, I'd also like to know how fast it burns through consumables and how much for how much they are as well just general TCO comparison stuff between it and traditional methods.  Individually the printed casts might be cheaper than a plaster one sure... but until you see the big picture.... who knows?

I just don't think rule of cool should be determining what does or doesn't go in to hospitals.
 
2013-07-04 06:57:54 AM

Vaneshi: I do echo the sentiments others are asking about how much the machine to make these costs is though, I'd also like to know how fast it burns through consumables and how much for how much they are as well just general TCO comparison stuff between it and traditional methods.


This could easily be printed on most commercial 3D printers that use either light-sensitive liquids to build, OR ones that use layered powder and fixer/heat/whatever.

It's still a few grand for these machines, but the materials used for each cast would be a few dollars. Overall the cost isn't very high, though relative to cotton and plaster... yeah.

But this is America, the cost of Medical services and equipment has nothing to do with their actual cost.
 
2013-07-04 08:35:38 AM

LasersHurt: Vaneshi: I do echo the sentiments others are asking about how much the machine to make these costs is though, I'd also like to know how fast it burns through consumables and how much for how much they are as well just general TCO comparison stuff between it and traditional methods.

This could easily be printed on most commercial 3D printers that use either light-sensitive liquids to build, OR ones that use layered powder and fixer/heat/whatever.

It's still a few grand for these machines, but the materials used for each cast would be a few dollars. Overall the cost isn't very high, though relative to cotton and plaster... yeah.

But this is America, the cost of Medical services and equipment has nothing to do with their actual cost.


I think the greater cost would be the software to generate the correct lattice after getting the xray and the 3D scan of the limb.  The 3D imaging might also need some hardware as I'm not sure that there are existing external imaging technologies in place like there would be with X-rays.  A decent large 3D printer would easily cost less than replacing the slip proof treads on the stairs in a modern hospital.  Hell they probably spend more money on laundry services in a week than they would for a 3D printer.
 
2013-07-04 08:40:48 AM

Egoy3k: I think the greater cost would be the software to generate the correct lattice after getting the xray and the 3D scan of the limb.  The 3D imaging might also need some hardware as I'm not sure that there are existing external imaging technologies in place like there would be with X-rays.


3D imaging is available now with fairly inexpensive hardware, and it's getting better and more accurate and cheaper all the time. You only need to image the exterior surface for size and shape - I would presume the doctor still checks and sets the break the old ways.

The software, that's a tough one. There's great open source stuff out there, AND great commercial stuff, but again this is Medical - there's always the chance that it gets turned into a $40k software package by a med-tech company. I hope not though, somethings gotta break in medicine here soon.
 
2013-07-04 08:41:23 AM
While this looks cool, and at some point in the future will probably be what we are doing, it isn't as if anyone has actually tested this on broken limbs. As far as I can tell this is some "designer's" website where he posts some ideas he thinks are cool. And this would be far more expensive than a traditional plaster cast.
 
2013-07-04 09:03:36 AM

LasersHurt: Egoy3k: I think the greater cost would be the software to generate the correct lattice after getting the xray and the 3D scan of the limb.  The 3D imaging might also need some hardware as I'm not sure that there are existing external imaging technologies in place like there would be with X-rays.

3D imaging is available now with fairly inexpensive hardware, and it's getting better and more accurate and cheaper all the time. You only need to image the exterior surface for size and shape - I would presume the doctor still checks and sets the break the old ways.

The software, that's a tough one. There's great open source stuff out there, AND great commercial stuff, but again this is Medical - there's always the chance that it gets turned into a $40k software package by a med-tech company. I hope not though, somethings gotta break in medicine here soon.


I agree. There isn't any glaring reason why this would or should be expensive as so many people seem to think it will be.  Besides which even if it tripled the cost of a plaster cast, so what? Plaster casts are not expensive it's the wages of the doctor/nurse/whatever who spends the time putting it on that are expensive. Then the wages of the orderly who needs to clean up the mess afterwards.

I see this is extremely useful where I live. More and more rural ERs are closing. With this tech, when a patient comes in with a fracture you don't need a doctor to treat them. You have the tech image them, a doctor can diagnose electronically from a more centralized ER and then can indicate what parts of the cast need to be strengthened.  The rural ER then prints up a cast, installs it, and tells the patient to see their GP in a week.

Right now you either wait until a doctor is able to treat you or you get transported to a centralized ER.  Neither of these options is beneficial to the patient or cost effective.

/Not to mention applications for treatment in remote locations like the Arctic
 
2013-07-04 09:30:53 AM

Great Janitor: Typing this one handed, as I busted the  fourth metacarpal on my right hand, wearing a loose fitting plaster cast, I am getting a kick, and jealously, out of this article.  I've actually have been thinking of building my own cast, just need the materials.  Why have a cast that goes from fingers to elbow for a busted hand? Just a glove with metal supports at the point of the fracture, and binding the two fingers together?

/10th broken bone in three years
//20th broken bone life time total


You sound brittle.
 
2013-07-04 09:49:39 AM

Vaneshi: I do echo the sentiments others are asking about how much the machine to make these costs is though, I'd also like to know how fast it burns through consumables and how much for how much they are as well just general TCO comparison stuff between it and traditional methods.  Individually the printed casts might be cheaper than a plaster one sure... but until you see the big picture.... who knows?


TCO isn't relevant in American healthcare, at least not until ACOs and risk sharing catch on.  In the meantime, docs get paid a markup on the procedure.  The more expensive the hardware, the more expensive the procedure, the bigger the markup typically is, and the more the doc gets paid.

Best part about it, the doc doesn't have to pay for the hardware.  The hospital pays for the hardware.  So the doc convinces the hospital to buy the machine even though its super expensive and only marginally better than the old process (if that), and then pulls in the money.

Hospital goes along with it since Americans are suckers for the latest even if its not the greatest.  So having that new shiny toy draws patients to the hospital.  Insured patients don't care about costs because healthcare is "free".  More traffic to the hospital means more money for the hospital.

The insurance companies cover it because they get a markup too.  They are allowed to charge in premiums up to 15% more than the medical costs incurred.  So higher medical costs are a good thing as long as the employers keep paying.  And if all the insurance companies are doing it, where are the employers going to go?  They have to pay.

So yeah it might cost 10x more and be 1% more effective, but everyone makes more money in the process: the hardware guys, the doctors, the hospital, and the insurance companies.  And money is what American healthcare is all about.
 
2013-07-04 09:52:52 AM
But what about the people who like the smell of rotting flesh that you get when you take off a plaster cast?
 
2013-07-04 10:37:36 AM
Makes me want to go out and break my arm just so I can get one.
 
2013-07-04 10:44:42 AM

Egoy3k: LasersHurt: Vaneshi: I do echo the sentiments others are asking about how much the machine to make these costs is though, I'd also like to know how fast it burns through consumables and how much for how much they are as well just general TCO comparison stuff between it and traditional methods.

This could easily be printed on most commercial 3D printers that use either light-sensitive liquids to build, OR ones that use layered powder and fixer/heat/whatever.

It's still a few grand for these machines, but the materials used for each cast would be a few dollars. Overall the cost isn't very high, though relative to cotton and plaster... yeah.

But this is America, the cost of Medical services and equipment has nothing to do with their actual cost.

I think the greater cost would be the software to generate the correct lattice after getting the xray and the 3D scan of the limb.  The 3D imaging might also need some hardware as I'm not sure that there are existing external imaging technologies in place like there would be with X-rays.  A decent large 3D printer would easily cost less than replacing the slip proof treads on the stairs in a modern hospital.  Hell they probably spend more money on laundry services in a week than they would for a 3D printer.


And yet i wish they would spend just a little more and launder uniforms too. Sick of seeing people out and about in scrubs after work. You there, ms hospital nurse, youre probably covered in MRSA, gtfo ouf the produce section.
 
2013-07-04 10:48:35 AM

omeganuepsilon: sendtodave: astro716: beer4breakfast: Uh, ok. How are you suppose to put it on? Slide your arm in? Glue the top half to the bottom half?

Came here to ask this. Do you put your arm in the bed of 3D printer powder and let the thing get formed around your arm?

It's simple.  You just, uh...

Well, you see, you, uh...

It looks real cool, dammit!

[media.dunkedcdn.com image 700x494]

Read the words.


Honestly, I'm pretty sure this is only a concept piece.

I see no indication how it opens or closes, or any indication that these "durable fasteners" exist, never mind how they function.

The whole site looks like a design graduate pissing about.
 
2013-07-04 11:09:43 AM

Great Janitor: Why have a cast that goes from fingers to elbow for a busted hand? Just a glove with metal supports at the point of the fracture, and binding the two fingers together?


To immobilize the whole hand and even the fingers somewhat, as some muscles for your fingers go all the way to your elbow.  Even bending and twisting at the wrist can put pressure on the bones within the hand because of the way the things are all anchored together. Feet and hands both are complicated structures that move in a variety of multiple directions.  It's not like a rod with a hinge at the end where each piece is independent of the other.

Egoy3k: I think the greater cost would be the software to generate the correct lattice after getting the xray and the 3D scan of the limb.


No. You could use a standard structure for the lattice work for each sort of cast needed, custom designing each cast's structure wouldn't be necessary.  All you would need is to take the template form and morph it to the precise dimensions needed to fit the arm snugly, and the software for that is in abundance and some of it is cheaper than dirt, some of it is free.(IE Blender)
 
2013-07-04 11:28:20 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Honestly, I'm pretty sure this is only a concept piece.

I see no indication how it opens or closes, or any indication that these "durable fasteners" exist, never mind how they function.


The fastener need not be durable in the sense that they need to open and close all the time, only that they stay latched once closed. That part would be easy, the templates are out there in abundance, toys to TV's. This is not a design challenge, more like red tape.
 
2013-07-04 11:29:51 AM

omeganuepsilon: AW, no QA yet?
is 25 posts in some kind of record for a 3d printing thread?


In theory, it's 3D printing that could save his life, although i know for a fact he even hates non-life extension technology, even if it is applied to life extension. Yes, i know that doesn't make sense.
 
2013-07-04 11:34:58 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: So what do you do until the swelling goes down? Put an actual cast on it?

Probably a shrinking series of them.

That doesn't sound at all expensive.

When my ex broke her arm she had a new cast everyday for the better part of a week. The swelling would go down and she could rattle the thing around on her arm every time the swelling went down a bit. Which is why I don't think we'll see this new technology in our emergency rooms anytime soon. It can't be cost-effective. Maybe with high-end specialists. Maybe after someone finally kneecaps Justin Beeeeber we will get to see this put to use.

From your mouth to God's ear.


Only one problem with that....God only follows one person:
i285.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-04 11:43:21 AM
You could use a net bandage soaked in UV activated epoxy to achieve a similar effect without the 3D printer.

Spray the arm with sunblock, wrap it in saran wrap.  Apply the net bandage and add extra material to strengthen key areas.  Polymerize the epoxy with a UV light.  Remove the saran wrap and you are done.
 
2013-07-04 11:45:12 AM

omeganuepsilon: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Honestly, I'm pretty sure this is only a concept piece.

I see no indication how it opens or closes, or any indication that these "durable fasteners" exist, never mind how they function.

The fastener need not be durable in the sense that they need to open and close all the time, only that they stay latched once closed. That part would be easy, the templates are out there in abundance, toys to TV's. This is not a design challenge, more like red tape.


Yep a simple zip tie will work for a fastener just needs to close it and stay on until its cut off
 
2013-07-04 11:56:42 AM

Egoy3k: There isn't any glaring reason why this would or should be expensive as so many people seem to think it will be.  Besides which even if it tripled the cost of a plaster cast, so what? Plaster casts are not expensive it's the wages of the doctor/nurse/whatever who spends the time putting it on that are expensive. Then the wages of the orderly who needs to clean up the mess afterwards.


You seem to be missing the point, your not factoring in the sheer quantity of money certified medical grade equipment costs nor exactly how prissy some of these hulking machines can be; even when their commercial version is a complete tank by comparison.

Here's how it'll work:
The printing machine will come from GE/Philips/etc and cost W
The imaging machine will come from GE/Philips/etc and cost X
The interconect to mate two different suppliers machines will be extra obviously.
The DRM'd and tamper proof canisters of consumables will cost Y
The software will be per head/per station (whichever is more) and be Z (per station/person).

Now add on to that the maintenance contract, ongoing training costs as staff rotate, electricity consumption as well.   Remember were talking an FDA approved and certified machine, printing only FDA approved and certified structures and so on.

Now does that figure that springs to mind, is it less or more than the old way?
 
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