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(Kentucky Forward)   Southern Baptist pastor's wife writes an article calling out the Southern Baptist Church; apparently a few Southern Baptists have a problem with this. Southern Baptist   (kyforward.com) divider line 150
    More: Asinine, Southern Baptist Convention, Rural Blog, Kentucky, gospel musics, interpretation of the Bible, Boy Scouts of America, civil societies, Savannah Oglesby  
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11908 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2013 at 12:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-03 03:25:08 PM  

doubled99: Briefly worked at a strip club in Atlanta in the nineties. Business went up about 300% every year the week of the Southern Baptist Convention. Best week of the year.


And even though you worked there only briefly, you know that business went up every year and that it was the best week of the year.

I call BS
 
2013-07-03 03:27:19 PM  

No Such Agency: A pastor is expected to have a strong Godly hand, and maintain his woman's submission to his authority, in accordance with Biblical principles.

1 Timothy 2:12 (KJV)
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Since he permitted her access to writing materials and then didn't beat her with a rod no thicker than his thumb for publishing this, he is obviously weak and unfit to lead the sheep of Christ.


All-American Man

Well God made man from a piece of clay and told him in his dying day
Said You're the boss I don't want no one above you
He gave him responsibility said you only answer unto Me 
If you'll do these things I'll make someone to love you
He took a piece of Adam's rib never gave a thought about women's lib
And He made the masterpiece of His creation
Now just between you and me do you honestly believe
He wanted you to take my place in this nation
American woman why can't you agree 
God made man for Himself but He made you for me
American woman why can't you understand
Now all you've got to do is love your all American man
 
2013-07-03 03:27:52 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: You do realize that a very large chunk of the New Testament, including rhe sayings atrributed to Jesus, can be summarized as "get your shiat together,because divinely-mandated ass-kickings are going to be dispensed in the near future," don't you? The Sermon on the Mount is a very small part of the book of Matthew...


How so?
I wouldnt say its as much about divinely mandated ass kickings as it is about reaping what you sow.
 
2013-07-03 03:28:36 PM  

doubled99: Briefly worked at a strip club in Atlanta in the nineties. Business went up about 300% every year the week of the Southern Baptist Convention. Best week of the year.


Well, I guess that means they're not cheap in handing out tips.
 
2013-07-03 03:29:08 PM  

arashinogarou: Hey, I was just contrasting OT god's "kill, crush, destroy each other" mentality with NT god's "love each other" mentality. But you do make a good point.


I know you don't believe it, but I think letting the whole "new covenant" line perpetuate is something we can't let continue.  The concept of Hell, and the idea that no matter how good you are if you think for yourself you're going there is infinitely more vile than all of the slaughters of the OT.  Modern Christians using the NT as cover for the OT are just absurd.
 
2013-07-03 03:32:07 PM  
Columnist is a fool
Southern Baptists are correct in leaving the federalized Boy Scouts and public school deathtraps
What's all the kerfuffle?
 
2013-07-03 03:33:27 PM  
"1 Corinthians 13:24 "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says "

1 Timothy 2:12 " do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. "

Both of these chapters were written after Christ's Crucifixion, known as the Epistles.
Therefore, they do not have the same authority as what Christ said or the 10 Commandments.
The struggles of the early church do not have to be ours, so let's not act like they are.
/context
//it's important
 
2013-07-03 03:34:10 PM  
once you go Soouthern Baptist, you never go back.  Seriously awesome group, we get compared to everyone else, "Well among the many positives of our denomination/church:  we have a friendly church, helpful staff, we're not as bad as the Southern Baptists ..." etc
 
2013-07-03 03:35:40 PM  

Kurmudgeon: "1 Corinthians 13:24 "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says "

1 Timothy 2:12 " do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. "

Both of these chapters were written after Christ's Crucifixion, known as the Epistles.
Therefore, they do not have the same authority as what Christ said or the 10 Commandments.
The struggles of the early church do not have to be ours, so let's not act like they are.
/context
//it's important


Yes, but the Gospels were also written a couple decades after the epistles, after a lot of Paul's theology became popular. Treating the gospels as purely antecedent is a mistake.
 
2013-07-03 03:37:56 PM  
Ah, Christianity: Satan's Religion.
 
2013-07-03 03:41:23 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: Yes, but the Gospels were also written a couple decades after the epistles, after a lot of Paul's theology became popular. Treating the gospels as purely antecedent  the Bible as anything but pure fiction is a mistake.

 
2013-07-03 03:41:56 PM  
Whoa, hold the phone! Are you trying to tell me that religious people are being humorless, hypocritical, judgmental, vindictive, reactionary asswipes who are overly sensitive to any criticism of their beliefs while openly condemning others? Did I fall asleep and wake up in bizarro world? I'm not sure I'm buying it.
 
2013-07-03 03:45:03 PM  

netgamer7k: RealAmericanHero: Martian_Astronomer: Eh, forgiveness in Christanity is contingent on 1.) Repentence and 2.) Begging for it.

I'm no Christian by any means, but I used to be for a time and still know some, and I can say at least for a non-denominational protestant that is not how it works.

You're right. Repentance is a change of mind; a will to do what is right. It isn't begging God to forgive you constantly after each and every mistake or sin you've commit. This is why the Gospel, at least in the King James Bible, says that belief is sufficient. Today's modern translations wash down that message and introduce works-based or performance-based salvation. That is another gospel, and the Bible doesn't say very nice things about those who preach another gospel.


You're not saying anything counter to my point. Repentence does not mean perfection, but it does mean a sincere, conscious rejection of past behavior. You're not considered "saved" if you have no intention of changing your behavior, and in the various commentaries on Church governence in the New Testament "repentence" is the only acceptable response to being confronted with sin. My while point was that it's quite consistent for churches to reject people for "wrongdoing" or "insubordination," and not expect them to ignore it in the name of "forgiveness" if the rejected party has not condemned his own past behavior.

Also, holding up the King James as a gold theological standard is probably not a good idea.

/ That's not even touching the faith/works argument in James
 
2013-07-03 03:46:00 PM  
Ah, Christianity again.  The so-called "religion of peace, love, and tolerance".
 
2013-07-03 03:49:59 PM  
I'm confused - I thought we hated Muslims?
 
2013-07-03 03:52:26 PM  
I'm an excellent driver - I'm confused - I thought we hated Muslims?

That's the biggest joke about the whole thing... in practice, they are no different!
 
2013-07-03 03:52:59 PM  
The bible is the most widley shoplifted book on Earth. That says a lot.
 
2013-07-03 03:53:48 PM  
I worked in Atlanta strip clubs just shy of 20 years and can confirm SB Convention was one of the best weeks of the year.
 
2013-07-03 03:53:55 PM  

netgamer7k: This is why the Gospel, at least in the King James Bible, says that belief is sufficient. Today's modern translations wash down that message and introduce works-based or performance-based salvation.


Someone hasn't read their KJV Bible all the way through...


/I love the smell of KJV Onlyism in the morning.  Smells like...ignorance.
 
2013-07-03 04:04:11 PM  
 
2013-07-03 04:04:48 PM  
I grew up in attending a southern baptist church in small town Texas.  Luckily, I managed to escape the church and come to my senses.

These people are nuts.  They ran boycotts (unsuccessful) against Disney, Starbucks, Home Depot, and more.

It's weird to me that they single out homosexuality as such an incredible unforgivable sin.  They are more forgiving of people who disobey things listed in the 10 commandments than they are of gays.
 
2013-07-03 04:09:11 PM  
Is that church part of the SBC? Their website is down(surprise) so I can't tell.
Not all southern Baptists are Southern Baptists.
 
2013-07-03 04:09:16 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Q: Why do you always take TWO Southern Baptists fishing with you?

A: 'Cause if you only take one, he'll drink all of your beer.


Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
Episcopalians do not recognize the Pope as the head of the church.
Southern Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters.


/church music director
 
2013-07-03 04:19:30 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: The bible is the most widley shoplifted book on Earth. That says a lot.


/citation needed
In any event, it doesn't say much.  Publishers churn out 25-100 million bibles a year, depending on what source you trust, every year.  50 Shades of Grey managed to sell 70 million copies.  So there's 70 million copies of FSOG available to pilfer and something on the order of 6 Billion bibles.  Even if people stole the bible at 1/10 the rate of everything else, the bible just happens to be a bigger target.

What it does say is that the people who steal bibles are Farking morons.  They give the damned things away for free.  Why steal one?
 
2013-07-03 04:22:25 PM  
I suspect he's counting every bible taken from a motel as "shoplifted".  It's a stupid argument, but hey, in a religion thread on fark, that's to be expected.
 
2013-07-03 04:23:08 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Aigoo: Egoy3k: Satanic_Hamster: Page isn't loading for me.  Don't suppose I could get a summary?

I finally got through it was pretty anti-climactic.  Basically she criticized the southern baptists for criticizing the boy scouts for allowing gay kids to join. They didn't like it and asked her husband to resign.

So, she acted like an actual Christian and they acted like a bunch of hypocrites. Seems to me they should be the ones resigning. Turn in your casserole dishes at the door...or go join the bigoted idiots in Topeka--declare your crazy for everyone to see and make your hatred and anti-Christianity abundantly clear instead of clothing it in respectability.

So what they're saying is that the husband is responsible for everything the wife does...?  What's he supposed to be, follow her around and approve all her writings first?


Oh wow dude. How in the holy fark did you get that idea from what I said? Does the idea of reading comprehension completely elude you or have you just not had your coffee yet? I said she acted like an actual Christian and that they are hypocrites who should stop pretending to be Christians. You somehow think that I agree with them that she's in the wrong and they're in the right? Damn, son. That's some seriously farked up logic jumping, even for fark.com
 
2013-07-03 04:24:33 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: Bloody William: Not seeing a lot of loving your neighbor or turning the other cheek here. Or any sort of forgiveness. Real Christian.

Eh, forgiveness in Christanity is contingent on 1.) Repentence and 2.) Begging for it. That's why the first step of your typical born-again evangelist is to get you to admit to being a sinner. Saying "I didn't do anything wrong" and not groveling is a sure-fire way to find yourself out on your ass.

/ This is also why churches "accept" gay people on the condition that they admit they're horrible and promise to never have sex


Whenever some of my wacko friends or relatives are watching the PTL or CBN shows, it seems like true repentance is based on the amount of details provided.  Granted, I've been able to avoid many such displays, but the ones I've seen are "so, tell us more.  Just how many times did you commit adultery, and with who?"
 
2013-07-03 04:29:25 PM  

Kurmudgeon: "1 Corinthians 13:24 "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says "

1 Timothy 2:12 " do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. "

Both of these chapters were written after Christ's Crucifixion, known as the Epistles.
Therefore, they do not have the same authority as what Christ said or the 10 Commandments.
The struggles of the early church do not have to be ours, so let's not act like they are.
/context
//it's important


All of the NT was written after the crucifixion. The oldest were written sixty years after. No one who actually knew Christ wrote a single word of the NT.
 
2013-07-03 04:30:55 PM  

Aigoo: Satanic_Hamster: Aigoo: Egoy3k: Satanic_Hamster: Page isn't loading for me.  Don't suppose I could get a summary?

I finally got through it was pretty anti-climactic.  Basically she criticized the southern baptists for criticizing the boy scouts for allowing gay kids to join. They didn't like it and asked her husband to resign.

So, she acted like an actual Christian and they acted like a bunch of hypocrites. Seems to me they should be the ones resigning. Turn in your casserole dishes at the door...or go join the bigoted idiots in Topeka--declare your crazy for everyone to see and make your hatred and anti-Christianity abundantly clear instead of clothing it in respectability.

So what they're saying is that the husband is responsible for everything the wife does...?  What's he supposed to be, follow her around and approve all her writings first?

Oh wow dude. How in the holy fark did you get that idea from what I said? Does the idea of reading comprehension completely elude you or have you just not had your coffee yet? I said she acted like an actual Christian and that they are hypocrites who should stop pretending to be Christians. You somehow think that I agree with them that she's in the wrong and they're in the right? Damn, son. That's some seriously farked up logic jumping, even for fark.com


Are you illiterate?

How the flying fark did you get that idea from what I said?  Does the idea of reading comprehension completely elude you or are you just retarded?  I said "they."  Not "you."

"They."

As in "them."

As in "not you."
 
2013-07-03 04:31:32 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: The Boy Scouts of America has been forced to confront this issue and cannot hide behind the freedom granted to religious organizations like the Southern Baptist Convention to condemn certain behaviors they deem unacceptable and excluded people based on their interpretation of the Bible.

I put put money in her basket.

Through victory an entirely new social order was to be established that would alter the relationship between the races forever. Unlike so many other Southerners, Lee embraced the new order. After peace had been achieved through unconditional surrender, the South became a vast, heavily occupied military zone with black Union soldiers seemingly everywhere.
One Sunday at St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Richmond, a well-dressed, lone black man, whom no one in the community-white or black-had ever seen before, had attended the service, sitting unnoticed in the last pew.
Just before communion was to be distributed, he rose and proudly walked down the center aisle through the middle of the church where all could see him and approached the communion rail, where he knelt. The priest and the congregation were completely aghast and in total shock.
No one knew what to do...except General Lee. He went to the communion rail and knelt beside the black man and they received communion together-and then a steady flow of other church members followed the example he had set.
After the service was over, the black man was never to be seen in Richmond again. It was as if he had been sent down from a higher place purposefully for that particular occasion.

That Robert E. Lee was a damn Northern Yankee Democrat.


Wow, I'd never heard that story before but every thing I've read of Lee shows the man was a class act.
 
2013-07-03 04:42:36 PM  

JuggleGeek: I suspect he's counting every bible taken from a motel as "shoplifted".  It's a stupid argument, but hey, in a religion thread on fark, that's to be expected.


Well Gideon checked out and let no doubt : )
 
2013-07-03 05:07:55 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Aigoo: Satanic_Hamster: Aigoo: Egoy3k: Satanic_Hamster: Page isn't loading for me.  Don't suppose I could get a summary?

I finally got through it was pretty anti-climactic.  Basically she criticized the southern baptists for criticizing the boy scouts for allowing gay kids to join. They didn't like it and asked her husband to resign.

So, she acted like an actual Christian and they acted like a bunch of hypocrites. Seems to me they should be the ones resigning. Turn in your casserole dishes at the door...or go join the bigoted idiots in Topeka--declare your crazy for everyone to see and make your hatred and anti-Christianity abundantly clear instead of clothing it in respectability.

So what they're saying is that the husband is responsible for everything the wife does...?  What's he supposed to be, follow her around and approve all her writings first?

Oh wow dude. How in the holy fark did you get that idea from what I said? Does the idea of reading comprehension completely elude you or have you just not had your coffee yet? I said she acted like an actual Christian and that they are hypocrites who should stop pretending to be Christians. You somehow think that I agree with them that she's in the wrong and they're in the right? Damn, son. That's some seriously farked up logic jumping, even for fark.com

Are you illiterate?

How the flying fark did you get that idea from what I said?  Does the idea of reading comprehension completely elude you or are you just retarded?  I said "they."  Not "you."

"They."

As in "them."

As in "not you."


Maybe because you quoted me? Generally, when someone quotes an individual, they are referring to what the last individual they quoted said, not what some other individual before them somewhere said. Just a little tip for quoting etiquette--you can delete the irrelevant portion of a quote if it's not actually relevant to what you are talking about. Otherwise, it does appear that you are addressing the last person you actually quoted, and that would be...me.

"Me."

As in "me or I."

As in "not them."

See, I can do that too! ;)

But I can also acknowledge that I misunderstood you, for which I apologize. See, it's not hard.
 
2013-07-03 05:09:51 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Aigoo: Satanic_Hamster: Aigoo: Egoy3k: Satanic_Hamster: Page isn't loading for me.  Don't suppose I could get a summary?

I finally got through it was pretty anti-climactic.  Basically she criticized the southern baptists for criticizing the boy scouts for allowing gay kids to join. They didn't like it and asked her husband to resign.

So, she acted like an actual Christian and they acted like a bunch of hypocrites. Seems to me they should be the ones resigning. Turn in your casserole dishes at the door...or go join the bigoted idiots in Topeka--declare your crazy for everyone to see and make your hatred and anti-Christianity abundantly clear instead of clothing it in respectability.

So what they're saying is that the husband is responsible for everything the wife does...?  What's he supposed to be, follow her around and approve all her writings first?

Oh wow dude. How in the holy fark did you get that idea from what I said? Does the idea of reading comprehension completely elude you or have you just not had your coffee yet? I said she acted like an actual Christian and that they are hypocrites who should stop pretending to be Christians. You somehow think that I agree with them that she's in the wrong and they're in the right? Damn, son. That's some seriously farked up logic jumping, even for fark.com

Are you illiterate?

How the flying fark did you get that idea from what I said?  Does the idea of reading comprehension completely elude you or are you just retarded?  I said "they."  Not "you."

"They."

As in "them."

As in "not you."


Not no, I'm not technically "retarded," though I do have a traumatic brain injury, so technically, that could be considered close enough. What's your excuse?
 
2013-07-03 05:32:41 PM  
TheShavingofOccam123:
No one knew what to do...except General Lee. He went to the communion rail and knelt beside the black man and they received communion together-and then a steady flow of other church members followed the example he had set.
After the service was over, the black man was never to be seen in Richmond again. It was as if he had been sent down from a higher place purposefully for that particular occasion.


It's awfully hard to wade back out of the James River with several sacks of rocks are tied to your feet. Just sayin'.
 
2013-07-03 05:33:56 PM  

SquiggsIN: wildcardjack: doubled99: Briefly worked at a strip club in Atlanta in the nineties. Business went up about 300% every year the week of the Southern Baptist Convention. Best week of the year.

I always made sure to take two baptists on the houseboat for parties. If I only took one he'd drink all the beer.

I've heard that one for years as a Mormon joke.


Why would I take Mormon's out on the houseboat? Except to give them chicken-wire and brick jackets.
 
2013-07-03 06:10:15 PM  
My late Uncle was a Baptist. He was also real close to being a religious fanatic. He could virtually quote the Bible and enjoyed religious discussions. After he died, I went to clean out his house and discovered that though he had very little money, he seemed to have kept the local religious store selling tracts (like Chick Tracts) in business.

The Christian religion is split into various sects. Then those sects are split into more sects. It reaches the point of fractal division, which leads me to believe that they can't even get along with each other.

Then you have to consider those branches like the Branch Dividians, run by the late, insane David Koresh. There were the Shakers -- whose strict religious beliefs about sex wiped them out over 40 years ago. (No children. No new converts.) I seem to recall Jonestown.

Churches often have squabbles, which lead to a chunk of the members splitting away to form their own group made up of 'right' thinkers.

I'm not real sure just exactly what it is that drives folks to believe in a certain form of religion and then squabble over the ways of worship.

We have a couple of major 'temples' whose religion is based on questionable resources, yet they have a huge following and/or major financial resources. The Church of the Latter Day Saints is one. (AKA Moorman.) Scientology is another.

I'm Christian, but tend to avoid churches. I grew tired of the inevitable squabble among the parishioners as to whom is the holiest and who has the most status. Often, there's one quiet guy in the congregation who sincerely believes and who does the most work for the church, acts the most Christian-like and who receives no recognition for it among the more wealthy members squabbling for recognition.

Kind of like that Priest of a small parish who keeps donating the money he gets for a new chapel roof to the poor, gives all of his time to acting like a Priest should and lives in near poverty. He'll never be even considered for Pope though he may be the most worthy.

Southern religions have a history of being somewhat prickly. Like those who handle poisonous snakes, speak in tongues or dance about in evangelistic ecstasy. Intolerance is high.

Then we have the Hellfire and Damnation versions, which seem absolutely convinced that anything fun or enjoyable is going to send you straight to hell.

That's why I am comfortable with my own religion version and don't attend church.

My uncle? He was nuts. Years before he died I sent him to see a shrink. He saw the shrink for quite some time until he lost his job and sank into poverty.

He lost it because after 14 years, surviving many layoffs, when the struggling company was looking for reliable folks to work overtime and on weekends, he refused. A good Christian never works on Sunday. Plus he tended to spread his religious convictions all over the factory floor.
He was Baptist -- as I mentioned at the beginning.
 
2013-07-03 08:31:33 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Ah, the Southern Baptist Convention.

Created to defend slavery, and has only gone downhill from there.


hmmm you do realized that the president of SBC is a brother right?
 
2013-07-03 08:56:27 PM  

Halophilic: arashinogarou: Hey, I was just contrasting OT god's "kill, crush, destroy each other" mentality with NT god's "love each other" mentality. But you do make a good point.

I know you don't believe it, but I think letting the whole "new covenant" line perpetuate is something we can't let continue.  The concept of Hell, and the idea that no matter how good you are if you think for yourself you're going there is infinitely more vile than all of the slaughters of the OT.  Modern Christians using the NT as cover for the OT are just absurd.


How do you know what I believe? I'm just making observations. I'm certainly no Bible scholar, though you appear to be.
 
2013-07-03 09:10:25 PM  

mreusone: You know what the problem is with baptists?  They don't hold 'em under long enough.


Ahahaha... Can I share that statement with my Mom? Because she's been a Baptist most of her life and a Sunday School teacher for 30-some years. This would totally give her a ROFL.
 
2013-07-03 09:14:04 PM  

Xenomech: netgamer7k: This is why the Gospel, at least in the King James Bible, says that belief is sufficient. Today's modern translations wash down that message and introduce works-based or performance-based salvation.

Someone hasn't read their KJV Bible all the way through...


/I love the smell of KJV Onlyism in the morning.  Smells like...ignorance.


And I feel sorry for anyone who has.  Miserable translation.

/just horrible
 
2013-07-03 09:54:29 PM  

willfullyobscure: Magorn: Timothy 2:12

Weird how Jesus didn't say any of that, isn't it. hmmmm

[advancedfootwork.files.wordpress.com image 200x196]


It's also arguable that Paul didn't, either.
 
2013-07-03 10:50:23 PM  

Kurmudgeon: "1 Corinthians 13:24 "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says "

1 Timothy 2:12 " do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. "

Both of these chapters were written after Christ's Crucifixion, known as the Epistles.
Therefore, they do not have the same authority as what Christ said or the 10 Commandments.
The struggles of the early church do not have to be ours, so let's not act like they are.



While that is one legitimate school of thought, keep in mind that the "inerrant" school of though, which most Baptists embrace, is that every word of the Bible comes from God himself, with the human authors merely scribes or secretaries.  Or perhaps I'm confusing the "biblical inerrancy" doctrine with a different doctrine, but the point is, to a fundamentalist Christian, it doesn't matter which human hand was holding the pen -- it's all God's word, word for word.

So it literally doesn't matter whether Jesus said it, Paul said it, or someone else said it, according to these people.  It's all something that God said THOUGH some human mouth or pen.
 
2013-07-04 01:08:28 AM  

ciberido: Kurmudgeon: "1 Corinthians 13:24 "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says "

1 Timothy 2:12 " do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. "

Both of these chapters were written after Christ's Crucifixion, known as the Epistles.
Therefore, they do not have the same authority as what Christ said or the 10 Commandments.
The struggles of the early church do not have to be ours, so let's not act like they are.


While that is one legitimate school of thought, keep in mind that the "inerrant" school of though, which most Baptists embrace, is that every word of the Bible comes from God himself, with the human authors merely scribes or secretaries.  Or perhaps I'm confusing the "biblical inerrancy" doctrine with a different doctrine, but the point is, to a fundamentalist Christian, it doesn't matter which human hand was holding the pen -- it's all God's word, word for word.

So it literally doesn't matter whether Jesus said it, Paul said it, or someone else said it, according to these people.  It's all something that God said THOUGH some human mouth or pen.


And that is where Baptists (and not just Baptists, but many of the nearly 40,000 schisms--an error in itself, according to the text of the book of 1 Corinthians and other portions of biblical text) err. They do not even recognize where Paul clearly says in 1 Timothy (which you take out of context here) "I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;9in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,10but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.11Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.12And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.13For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

So in 1 Timothy, Paul is clearly speaking with his own voice, as a man, on his own authority here. This is a letter to Timothy to encourage and instruct him--it is not "the word of the Lord," per se, it is the instruction of the Apostle Paul (1 Tim 1:3 "As I urged you..."; 1 Tim 1:18 "This charge I commit to you...") and nowhere in the extended passage does Paul say that the Lord and not he--Paul--commands thus.

In 1 Cor 14:34, Paul is speaking to order within the church. There are several schools of thought on this, but given the entirety of Scripture and the entirety of 1 Corinthians, it's difficult to believe that Paul is endorsing a view that the Holy Spirit would decline to move on women at all, ever. Especially considering that in the Old Testament, one of the judges over all of Israel was a woman. As a Pharisee, Paul would have been more well aware of this than the believers at Corinth--a Greek city with many formerly pagan converts. Instead, logic and context dictate that Paul is referring in this passage to women asking their husbands for clarification during the service, thus disrupting the service. In the first century, it was often (but not always) the practice that women sat on one side and men on the other (as is still the practice even in some denominations today), so in some services, a woman asking a question of her husband or father involved literally raising her voice almost to shouting level. Women teaching or explaining to other women or to male children could be equally loud and disruptive. Of course, this is only one school of thought on the subject, and it is not the definitive answer. But to dismiss the topic as Paul being misogynistic based on a denomination's out of context traditional teaching does a great disservice to the text and to the writer, in my opinion.
 
2013-07-04 03:32:23 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: rufus-t-firefly: Ah, the Southern Baptist Convention.

Created to defend slavery, and has only gone downhill from there.

hmmm you do realized that the president of SBC is a brother right?


You do realise that in the antebellum South, a lot of "brothers" were slave owners, right?
 
2013-07-04 08:30:21 AM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: agsfark: Ow! That was my feelings!: bwahahahaa!
[www.stevekmccoy.com image 470x576]

those two guys ran a blog that was in important part of the SBC moving in a more biblical, less hypocritical direction some years ago. They are really good, and funny dudes.

link?


I think it was called SBC Outpost.  They shut it down after some major changes in SBC direction. I'm pretty sure Steve McKoy(sp?) is still online.
 
2013-07-04 10:28:30 AM  

WordyGrrl: mreusone: You know what the problem is with baptists?  They don't hold 'em under long enough.

Ahahaha... Can I share that statement with my Mom? Because she's been a Baptist most of her life and a Sunday School teacher for 30-some years. This would totally give her a ROFL.


Feel free!  I picked it up somewhere years ago.  Having been raised in a fundamentalist Baptist family, I thought it was hilarious. When I shared it with my aforementioned Baptist family members, they did not appreciate the humor.

/I gave up religion for lent years ago and never looked back.
 
2013-07-04 11:21:36 AM  

ChubbyTiger: Xenomech: netgamer7k: This is why the Gospel, at least in the King James Bible, says that belief is sufficient. Today's modern translations wash down that message and introduce works-based or performance-based salvation.

Someone hasn't read their KJV Bible all the way through...


/I love the smell of KJV Onlyism in the morning.  Smells like...ignorance.

And I feel sorry for anyone who has.  Miserable translation.

/just horrible


I saw a church signboard a while back that said "King James Version Has Never Been Revised." How odd. The very title tells you it's a revision, one made to satisfy a ruler who wanted his very own version of the Bible.
 
2013-07-04 02:01:18 PM  
"So it literally doesn't matter whether Jesus said it, Paul said it, or someone else said it, according to these people. It's all something that God said THOUGH some human mouth or pen."

And this is how people get confused. It does matter, The Bible is a history as well as religion.
Who said what, why and when, DOES matter.
Next thing you know you'll have people equating the book of Leviticus or Paul with The Messiah then bad things start to happen.
 
2013-07-04 05:18:27 PM  

WordyGrrl: I saw a church signboard a while back that said "King James Version Has Never Been Revised." How odd. The very title tells you it's a revision, one made to satisfy a ruler who wanted his very own version of the Bible.


The first known book written to explain basic slight of hand magic was called Discoverie of Witchcraft.  The goal of that book was to show that magic isn't real, witches don't exist, etc.  King James didn't like that at all, so he had the book banned and they burned every copy they could find.

When someone burns books because he hates other people knowing the truth, it rather makes it hard for me to trust his "translation" of the bible.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discoverie_of_Witchcraft
 
2013-07-04 08:15:08 PM  

JuggleGeek: WordyGrrl: I saw a church signboard a while back that said "King James Version Has Never Been Revised." How odd. The very title tells you it's a revision, one made to satisfy a ruler who wanted his very own version of the Bible.

The first known book written to explain basic slight of hand magic was called Discoverie of Witchcraft.  The goal of that book was to show that magic isn't real, witches don't exist, etc.  King James didn't like that at all, so he had the book banned and they burned every copy they could find.

When someone burns books because he hates other people knowing the truth, it rather makes it hard for me to trust his "translation" of the bible.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discoverie_of_Witchcraft


Interesting stuff, indeed. You sent me off on a few searches about that King James Version. Apparently, he ordered that the "new translation" be strictly compatible with the ideologies of the Church of England at the time (i.e., anti-Puritan), and only allowed translators to use a handful of approved references while they did the job. Yeah, that says "control freak" among other things.
 
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