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(Salon)   Someday, we may reach the point where there are no more horrific sexual abuses within the Catholic Church to be uncovered. Today is not that day   (salon.com) divider line 34
    More: Sad, Catholic Church, insurance claims, child sexual abuse, sex crimes, archbishops  
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9093 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2013 at 9:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-07-03 08:21:33 AM
10 votes:
Kinda puts the church's political views in a new light. How can they claim any sort of moral authority after details like this surface?

They can't even claim to be persecuted. This is hard evidence of a massive cover up organized from high up the food chain.
2013-07-03 08:46:46 AM
7 votes:

Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.


Shut up! I can't hear them bemoaning the fact that consenting adults want to get married!
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-03 08:46:31 AM
6 votes:

Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.


The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will.  They don't care about facts.
2013-07-03 09:32:04 AM
5 votes:

EvilEgg: Bust the church with RICO charges


Seriously, how is this NOT an international criminal conspiracy?
2013-07-03 08:52:39 AM
3 votes:

vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will.  They don't care about facts.


It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-03 08:38:04 AM
3 votes:
There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.
2013-07-03 08:24:17 AM
3 votes:
I think I respect NAMBLA more, at least they are upfront about their desires.

Bust the church with RICO charges, I bet you could get the Protestants on board without too much effort.
2013-07-03 09:48:53 AM
2 votes:

elgrancerdo: Well, catholicism is a religion loosely based off the scriptures, but it has been diluted with enough paganism that perhaps they are not even close to having a relationship with the Holy Spirit to guide their lives, and this is evidence of that. Perhaps that is one of the secondary reasons for the cover up: they do not want to look in front of the other Christians as if their faith is not real.

All religions are bad. A true faith or relationship with your creator will save you.


i2.kym-cdn.com
2013-07-03 09:06:44 AM
2 votes:

EvilEgg: BunkoSquad: Weaver95: how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

It's simple. Just ignore any inclination toward logic or basic human decency.

Is murder a worse crime than rape?  Why do we have murder mysteries on TV but no rape mysteries, maybe rape is worse.  But then I don't recall any abortion mysteries on the TV either, so there's that.


L&O SVU is all about the rape.
2013-07-03 08:44:35 AM
2 votes:

vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.


I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.
2013-07-03 11:48:54 AM
1 votes:

bunner: Catholicism has nothing to do with Christianity.  It' not about god or Jesus or anything remotely associated with it.  It's about repeating prefab stuff over and over, statues, beads, doughy old men in dresses and funny hats, real estate and groping 7 year old boys.  And if the New Jack Atheist Contingent really needs to go to war with somebody, go to war with these mooks.  Not people handing out pamphlets on the subway.


Right. Real Christians don't grope nine year olds. They just tell them they'll be tortured for all eternity in hell, and then put them to death for worshipping the wrong God.
2013-07-03 11:25:26 AM
1 votes:
Tim Minchin - The Pope Song:  http://vimeo.com/11338327   (Definitely NSFW...but 100% truthful and 100% honest....unlike the Catholic Church...the truth hurts sometimes)
2013-07-03 11:13:38 AM
1 votes:
Some day people will realize that the only reason anyone organizes a religion into a group with leadership, rules, headquarters, etc. is because they want to take advantage of people.

It's always the same. Even the most benevolent church, synagogue, temple or mosque is a front for people who wish to hold power and influence over a group of people, and in most of them there's a desire for profit as well.

Faith is fine. Organized religion is generally corrupt by its very nature, because no matter what, someone is in charge. Someone makes the rules, directs the flock, takes in the tithes, issues the commands, and hides behind their faith. The problem is that having faith as a shield gives religious leaders too much power and protection, and they always-- ALWAYS-- end up taking advantage of it.

That's my experience, anyway.

So why anyone would want to be a Catholic-- A religion that for all intents and purposes has appointed its own king and works under a feudal system-- is beyond me. The Pope, the Archbishops, The Bishops, the Cardinals, and even the Priests and Nuns are the members of royalty and nobility within their system, and enjoy the privilege of making their own laws and disobeying them as they see fit.

But of course, when you're so deep into your religion that you're willing to accept the control and direction of a leader, you're vulnerable to being exploited and you don't make objective decisions; You let faith guide you, and you rely on the people who are exploiting you to tell you what faith is.
2013-07-03 11:10:13 AM
1 votes:
OK New Pope Dude, you've been knocking the cover off the ball in AAA, and now is your first chance for a genuine big league at bat.

Lets see how he does.
2013-07-03 11:00:59 AM
1 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: ... and tomorrow looks pretty rapey for the Church as well.

I'm going to hang out with those good wholesome Pagans. They don't have sex with little boys.


A lot of pagan groups don't allow participation below the age of 18 due to the fact that a child or adolescent's oath is legally, and supposedly spiritually, worthless.

After that, however, it's game on for the nekkid fire jumping.
2013-07-03 10:56:56 AM
1 votes:
I'll just leave this here for you to hear.
http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=rTIorwtJbhE
2013-07-03 10:49:25 AM
1 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: ... and tomorrow looks pretty rapey for the Church as well.

I'm going to hang out with those good wholesome Pagans. They don't have sex with little boys.


I don't know why more guys aren't pagan. If a bunch of men together is called a sausage fest, what is a bunch of women called?

As a woman who has been in the pagan religion for 2 decades, I can say that we need more single men. I go to festivals and camp outs open to getting laid and its mostly just women and already attached men! Any single available men are quickly snapped up to partake in earthly delights. Seriously, you want to get laid by a woman who sees sex as healthy, sacred, and should be done frequently without all the judeo christian hangups, go pagan.

;)
2013-07-03 10:47:25 AM
1 votes:
when you are giving guilt away for free
but selling redemption
yer always going to have some bad employees
2013-07-03 10:42:12 AM
1 votes:

Bloody William: Copper Spork: Bloody William: How is child abuse and molestation not an excommunicable offense?

The sin of homosexuality can be forgiven, if the person repents. It's only excommunicable if God's law is ignored, for example by marriage.

HOW IS DON'T fark LITTLE KIDS NOT PART OF GOD'S LAW?


The same reason slavery isn't.
2013-07-03 10:39:02 AM
1 votes:

vpb: The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will.  They don't care about facts.


Anyone I have ever known who was super into church stuff and believed most of it was just made up.  They probably could have watched a priest abuse a child and convince themselves it was a hologram sent from the devil to trick and test their faith.  They'll think this is all made up orexaggerated, as well.
2013-07-03 10:25:29 AM
1 votes:

vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will.  They don't care about facts.


Every Sunday, they flood into the churches and give them money.  That's approval.
2013-07-03 10:16:35 AM
1 votes:

hinten: Weaver95: Kinda puts the church's political views in a new light. How can they claim any sort of moral authority after details like this surface?

They can't even claim to be persecuted. This is hard evidence of a massive cover up organized from high up the food chain.


They claimed moral authority after killing thousand of witches, hundreds of thousand of heretics, stealing millions and millions of valuables, etc.
It seems you forgot that they are infallible.


No, there's a lot of chatter among pagans about the whole burning witches thing. I'm unlikely to forget it any time soon.
2013-07-03 09:57:24 AM
1 votes:

pdieten: As for the morality of the thing, it's really not that much different from the fact that it simply didn't occur to 19th century southerners that owning black people was morally wrong, or how it didn't occur to people until recently that persecuting people for being gay was morally wrong. It was a different time. It wasn't all that long ago when nobody would bat an eye if they saw someone slapping their kids around in public either.


In what recent era was it considered not immoral to sexually abuse children?
2013-07-03 09:51:37 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: Kinda puts the church's political views in a new light. How can they claim any sort of moral authority after details like this surface?

They can't even claim to be persecuted. This is hard evidence of a massive cover up organized from high up the food chain.


The short & simple answer to your question is that Catholic theology simply assumes that all sins are forgivable. When the hierarchy found out about things like this, the priest was most likely ordered to confess, and admonished not to do it again. It simply didn't occur to anybody that these priests had unfixable psychological issues.

As for the morality of the thing, it's really not that much different from the fact that it simply didn't occur to 19th century southerners that owning black people was morally wrong, or how it didn't occur to people until recently that persecuting people for being gay was morally wrong. It was a different time. It wasn't all that long ago when nobody would bat an eye if they saw someone slapping their kids around in public either.

This is not to excuse any of this, but the point is that church leaders held attitudes toward this sort of thing that do not belong to this era. The Catholic church always tends to run quite a bit behind the rest of American society when determining what's morally acceptable and what's not.
2013-07-03 09:44:05 AM
1 votes:
FWIW I think the moment we can prove the Catholic church not only protected these creeps, but also shuffled monies to avoid payouts to victims and lawyers, is the moment we pull their tax-free status and go after them with RICO charges.

These people are covering up child abuse and in some cases rape. Book 'em Dan-O.
2013-07-03 09:34:16 AM
1 votes:
I would love for my Irish and Italian Catholic in-laws to read this article. Somehow, they won't believe it... and/or brush it off.

/ They think I'm not a whole person because I don't go to church.
// At one point, they blamed me for her daughter not going to church... even though she has told them a number of times that she was not going long before she met me.
2013-07-03 09:33:26 AM
1 votes:
How is child abuse and molestation not an excommunicable offense?
2013-07-03 09:29:12 AM
1 votes:
Releasing this information was the wrong thing to do. The Church has already forgiven those poor misguided children for their acts of homosexuality. There is no need for society to punish them further.
2013-07-03 09:23:55 AM
1 votes:

EvilEgg: Why do we have murder mysteries on TV but no rape mysteries,


I guess you've never seen SVU.
2013-07-03 09:14:05 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: Cythraul: Weaver95: swaniefrmreddeer: vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will.  They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

You're seriously pondering man's capability of perpetuating contradicting behavior and philosophy?

No I'm seriously pondering how the church expects to get out of the mess they made for themselves. I honestly don't see a way out of it.


Well, as others have stated, I think there will be enough 'true believers' around to keep the Catholic Church in business for quite some time to come. If the church can finally crack down on this scandal and put an end to it, the passage of time will see the Church retain, if not even increase its wealth and influence.

Even if they don't purge themselves of the kid farkers, I think they have enough followers to provide them with the resources to pay out for court cases for decades to come.
2013-07-03 09:06:14 AM
1 votes:

Cythraul: Weaver95: swaniefrmreddeer: vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will.  They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.

Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

You're seriously pondering man's capability of perpetuating contradicting behavior and philosophy?


No I'm seriously pondering how the church expects to get out of the mess they made for themselves. I honestly don't see a way out of it.
2013-07-03 09:02:42 AM
1 votes:

BunkoSquad: Weaver95: how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?

It's simple. Just ignore any inclination toward logic or basic human decency.


Yeah that works for the true believers....but everyone else is gonna tell the gotdamn hypocrites to get stuffed. The only way this works is if the church finds a way to do some sort of penance.
2013-07-03 09:00:38 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?


It's simple. Just ignore any inclination toward logic or basic human decency.
2013-07-03 08:57:58 AM
1 votes:

swaniefrmreddeer: vpb: Weaver95: vpb: There have always been dirty dealings going on in the Church.  When there is power or money to be had, it will attract the type of people who crave that sort of thing, and it's the perfect cover if you are a pervert.

I just don't see how the church can regain any sort of moral high ground after this.

The same way they did before.

People who want to believe will.  They don't care about facts.

It's even worse than they don't care about facts, they're openly hostile to the facts. Nothing pisses off a catholic more than pointing out all the little boy f*cking that goes on in the church.


Yeah but even the true believers have a serious problem. All the lies and corruption make it exceptionally difficult to use any sort of 'moral leverage' against undecided voters....if ever there were such a thing left in this country. That's what I'm wondering...how can the church claim they are doing the work of god and tell women that abortion is a mortal sin...lwhile at the same time the church is covering up decades of kiddie rape?
 
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