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(Network World)   FARK joins civil rights groups and other major websites in the July 4 protest against NSA surveillance   (networkworld.com ) divider line 271
    More: Spiffy, NSA, civil rights groups, Fourth Amendment, IDG, freedom of the press, NSA surveillance, civil rights, John Cusack  
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5856 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2013 at 2:42 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-03 10:57:41 AM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't understand, so giving your personal info to facebook is perfectly fine. facebook in turn selling this info to companies and individuals is fine but the government asking facebook for this info that is available to both private individuals and corporations around the world is wrong? Individuals and Corporations have probably done a lot more harm with personal info then the government ever has.


Think of it this way.  The Constitution limits the government.  Not private businesses.  So, you can't be jailed for saying black licorice is the best licorice.  But you can be fired for saying that.
 
2013-07-03 11:10:18 AM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: Wangiss:
"Hey, Facebook, I'll trade some of my personal info for a free social networking experience."
"Okay, user."

That's voluntary.

"Hey, government, stop spying on me."
"No."

That's involuntary.

When someone walks on the pavers in your front yard, they're not hurting anything, but if it's not voluntary on your part they are trespassing.  I believe you should be allowed to govern your own property as long as you're not doing anything illegal.

When someone talks to you about personal matters, they're not hurting anything, but if it's not voluntary on your part, it's interrogation.  I believe you should be allowed to govern your own personal information as long as you're not doing anything illegal.

When you tell people where you are and what you're doing, that doesn't harm you, but if it's not voluntary it's stalking.  I believe you should be allowed to go about your business without being followed as long as you're not doing anything illegal.

Probable cause is the threshold for the federal government to take action.  Once they have a defensible reason to believe you're involved in a FEDERAL CRIME, you suddenly exist to them.  Until then, you should be merely a census statistic and a social security account.

"A watched man is not a free man."

I don't understand, so giving your personal info to facebook is perfectly fine. facebook in turn selling this info to companies and individuals is fine but the government asking facebook for this info that is available to both private individuals and corporations around the world is wrong? Individuals and Corporations have probably done a lot more harm with personal info then the government ever has.


Do you mean "than OUR government ever has"?  That's because we have restrictions on its use, unlike the governments that have used personal information (such as information about philosophical leanings and ethnic origin) to literally slay millions of people.  When you tell someone "here's my car, bring it back in one piece" that's voluntary.  When the government siezes your car, even if they bring it back in one piece, that's involuntary.  There should be some outrage in that.  Facebook selling what you gave them to sell (and you control what you share--amazing!) in exchange for a valuable services is totally voluntary.  If someone puts up a profile of you without your permission and shares your personal information you can even sue them for fraud!  You should be in control of what information about you is available to the public.  Do you seriously not want that authority?  The government should not be collecting that data unless you *personally* are an identifiable threat to national security or there is probable cause to believe you've violated federal law.  Until then, the only thing they should know about you is that contribute +1 population to a congressional district and how much is in your Social Security account.
 
2013-07-03 11:11:15 AM  
Dear NSA: "No, You move."

www.droidforums.net
 
2013-07-03 11:12:39 AM  

I_C_Weener: Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't understand, so giving your personal info to facebook is perfectly fine. facebook in turn selling this info to companies and individuals is fine but the government asking facebook for this info that is available to both private individuals and corporations around the world is wrong? Individuals and Corporations have probably done a lot more harm with personal info then the government ever has.

Think of it this way.  The Constitution limits the government.  Not private businesses.  So, you can't be jailed for saying black licorice is the best licorice.  But you can be fired for saying that.


That's the most hilarious benign infraction I've ever seen used as an example.  I can just see a letter to the editor of some rag by an idiot who got fired from the Red Vines factory describing the usurpation of his free speech rights.
 
2013-07-03 11:16:54 AM  

Vitamin Pb: This thread is a great way to quickly make a quick list of the Stasi collaborators on Fark. Once we get our hands on their metadata we can track them down pretty easily.

I've got a list of quite a few names/handles so far.


You're adorable.
 
2013-07-03 11:20:57 AM  

Kurohone: Actually it was a nice demonstration of some of the potential problems with anonymous internet usage, in a thread that deals with social networking sites concerns regarding expectations of members privacy.


Really? This is a "check to see if TOR works on Fark" thread? Could've fooled me.
 
2013-07-03 03:41:27 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Are we going to burn a flag?

Oh, that's what I do to celebrate my right to free speech.

What do you do to celebrate your right to be free from unreasonable warrants?


Canada day was a few days ago.
 
2013-07-03 04:03:26 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: DeathByGeekSquad: I'd be curious to know how many people join/joined these protests because of what other people told them.

That and people who are just plain clueless.  The idea that someone is reading your email is just silly.  There are an estimated 89 billion emails per day sent.  Projected to be over 100 billion per day by next year.  And that, btw, is just a tiny fraction of all internet traffic. No one is reading your email (probably not even your intended recipient), no  one is watching you download porn.  You aren't that special.  This is THE biggest clueless outrage over very little in a while.


Don't think you understand the point... nor the technology.
 
2013-07-03 04:05:49 PM  
You forgot these guys, the best in the business, well run, well organized, efficient and trsutworthy

work.chron.com
 
2013-07-03 06:22:35 PM  

boarch: ThrobblefootSpectre: DeathByGeekSquad: I'd be curious to know how many people join/joined these protests because of what other people told them.

That and people who are just plain clueless.  The idea that someone is reading your email is just silly.  There are an estimated 89 billion emails per day sent.  Projected to be over 100 billion per day by next year.  And that, btw, is just a tiny fraction of all internet traffic. No one is reading your email (probably not even your intended recipient), no  one is watching you download porn.  You aren't that special.  This is THE biggest clueless outrage over very little in a while.

Don't think you understand the point... nor the technology.


Likewise.
 
2013-07-03 08:28:34 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: No one is reading your email (probably not even your intended recipient), no  one is watching you download porn.


hahahahaha

oh wait you are serious
sorry

HAHAHAHAHAHA

// keep telling yourself that gumby
 
2013-07-03 10:17:17 PM  

Wangiss: Why is NSA's information gathering so dreadful?

Situation one:
You're chilling with your friends, and you talk about sex, drugs and rock and roll.

Situation two:
You're sitting with a federal agent, and he asks you about sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

If there's no difference for you, party on, dude.

The difference is whether it's a voluntary interaction. If it's not voluntary, it's a forcible interaction.

Giving vs Theft
Visiting vs Trespassing
Good Sex vs Rape

Whether an interaction is voluntary makes an enormous difference. The government has no business tracking non-criminals. Probable cause is a barrier for a reason. Warrants are required for a reason. If you don't understand why (as one acquaintance of mine can't fathom the purpose of Amendment 5), please figure it out and protect your freedom. You may need it some day, and there are people in urgent need of it at this very moment.


Thank god somebody was able to come up with a real answer besides "You're just a shill for the government" or "Oh, so that makes it OK?"

Too bad you're the only one so far.
 
2013-07-03 10:59:25 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Thank god somebody was able to come up with a real answer besides "You're just a shill for the government" or "Oh, so that makes it OK?"


This probably has a lot to do with the fact that you're one of the more reliable Obama shills on the entire Fark Politics Tab.
 
2013-07-04 12:09:47 AM  

Voiceofreason01: what gives the NSA the right to those records?



The 4th Amendment and related jurisprudence going back since the Feds first attempted to use information obtained via wiretaps and pen registers.  Whatever you shared with an intermediary (e.g. you dialed a number which tells your carrier who to connect you with or input an email address that tells a carrier where to route the email) is by definition information that had zero expectation of privacy.  It was freely volunteered to a third party so you cannot claim it was private.
 
2013-07-04 12:19:06 AM  

BullBearMS: Don't you mean that the NSA documents leaked to him by an NSA employee do not match up with the story currently being told to us by NSA officials?

Since these same NSA officials have recently been caught red handed lying to Congress under oath, I'm not certain why you think anyone should believe what they say on the matter now.



The documents currently leaked clearly allude to phone and email records.  Even today's revelation simply shows that the NSA was aware of "when" a call was placed, an email sent, or a person logged on but nothing showed that the program automatically recorded calls and emails and aggregated them into a searchable database that was freely accessible by intelligence officials.

As for lying under oath, for the billionth time Clapper had an obligation to avoid revealing a classified program in an open forum.  Especially when the person asking the question was fully aware of the program and was simply trying to out it despite the fact that it was classified.  Any non-answer or deflection would have been taken as tacit affirmation so he lied.  When it comes to classified programs and information people lie all the time, in fact they're encouraged to do so.  If the Committee really wanted to have a frank and full discussion on the topic they are fully capable of meeting in private behind closed doors (as is customary for that Committee) where classification and clearance wouldn't be an issue.
 
2013-07-04 01:23:59 AM  

JK47: As for lying under oath, for the billionth time Clapper had an obligation to avoid revealing a classified program in an open forum.


Bullshiat.

He had an obligation to say he couldn't answer the question if doing so revealed secret information.

He had no obligation to lie under oath.
 
2013-07-04 02:54:53 AM  

BullBearMS: Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't understand, so giving your personal info to facebook is perfectly fine. facebook in turn selling this info to companies and individuals is fine but the government asking facebook for this info that is available to both private individuals and corporations around the world is wrong?

Unlike Facebook, the government is bound by the restrictions in the Bill of Rights as to what it is forever forbidden to do.

This is basic ninth grade Civics.


Where in the Bill of Rights does it state that the government cannot simply ask for information?
 
2013-07-04 08:54:34 AM  
Looks the same to me.  NSA is still logging.  Water is still wet and sky is blue.  Like most things involved with EFF, just put it on a bumper sticker with a catchy phrase from BB and everyone forgets in a week lol.
 
2013-07-04 11:27:59 AM  

Mock26: BullBearMS: Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't understand, so giving your personal info to facebook is perfectly fine. facebook in turn selling this info to companies and individuals is fine but the government asking facebook for this info that is available to both private individuals and corporations around the world is wrong?

Unlike Facebook, the government is bound by the restrictions in the Bill of Rights as to what it is forever forbidden to do.

This is basic ninth grade Civics.

Where in the Bill of Rights does it state that the government cannot simply ask for information?


You got it backwards. The constitution has to specifically authorize the federal government to "simply ask for information."
To answer your question, Amendments 9 & 10.
 
2013-07-04 12:29:13 PM  

Wangiss: If all you wanted was to verify that partisan hacks existed, get your abundantly available self-satisfaction elsewhere.  Else why are you even asking that question?  What if I just didn't give a fark because


That was a great reply (and some of your others). Personally I agree with what the NSA does, I'm willing to give up some anonymity  for safety and prosperity.  If the world's into criminal espionage, then let's be the best.  Sure I'm trolling a little for bandwagon protesters, and no, I have no need to go anywhere else. Good luck on your good fight.
 
2013-07-04 12:31:56 PM  
Oh yeah, it's the 4th. What was Fark's protest display?  It is the throbbing background?
 
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