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(Daily Mail)   Washington State to remove 'gender biased language'. Terms such as 'fisherman', 'freshman' and even 'journeyman plumber' to be replaced with 'fisher', 'first-year-student' and 'journey-level plumber'   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 150
    More: Stupid, Washington, National Women's Law Center, sexisms, gender neutral, Democratic Governor Jay Inslee, civil engineers  
•       •       •

2211 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2013 at 8:32 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-03 08:49:43 AM  

jtown: Reminds me of when LA banned any product with "master" or "slave" labels.  Like hard drives (this was back in the PATA/IDE days) or any kind of paired devices where one controlled the other.  No more master control panels for you!


Male and female plugs/sockets are still OK though.

/Yet this one cracks me up more than the others.
 
2013-07-03 08:50:37 AM  

HailRobonia: I_Am_Weasel: Replacing "fisherman" with "fister" would also require a change in vocation.

Argh!  I'm always misreading.

Wait.  "miss" reading?   That should be, um, "incorrectly interpreting the written or printed language"

Fist her? Well, okay, let me get the lube....


I can tell you're a feminist because you're going to use lube
 
2013-07-03 08:51:59 AM  

ManRay: Are there really women that are bothered by this sort of thing?


No, but I'll bet there are lots of womyn who have a big problem with it.
 
2013-07-03 08:52:08 AM  

jtown: Reminds me of when LA banned any product with "master" or "slave" labels.  Like hard drives (this was back in the PATA/IDE days) or any kind of paired devices where one controlled the other.  No more master control panels for you!


Or master and slave cylinders on your car.
 
2013-07-03 08:53:12 AM  

This text is now purple: Isn't the whole state named after a man?


They're renaming Washington State to "Why The Chinese Will One Day Eat Us Alive".
 
2013-07-03 08:53:58 AM  

Xcott: So instead of saying, "we interfaced a master to a slave device in freshman electronics" you say, "we interfaced a master to a slave device in first year electronics." And then it's no longer offensive.


That depends on if you're referring to "Intro to Computer Science" or "Intro to BDSM"
 
2013-07-03 08:54:18 AM  
And yet when I try to be gender neutral and refer to a woman as 'it' I get yelled at.
 
2013-07-03 08:55:54 AM  
And "menopause" and "menstruation"? What of them?
 
2013-07-03 08:56:44 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Cold_Sassy: Fark off, "Daily Fail"

The Daily Mail loves nothing more than proudly fighting sexism while running a "Femail" section all about which celebrities have the worst bikini bodies, which starlets just turned legal age, and why working women are killing society and their own babies.


Yes, and it is always directed at someone other than the UK, where they have no problems whatsoever :)
 
2013-07-03 09:06:00 AM  
I'm waiting for humans to get renamed "humes".
 
2013-07-03 09:08:06 AM  
Is that a mandate?

/In related news, like vegans and PETA, it is rapidly becoming impossible to parody feminists anymore.
 
2013-07-03 09:08:23 AM  
Why don't we just kill all men? That's what they're really going for here.
 
2013-07-03 09:10:09 AM  

WhippingBoy: And "menopause" and "menstruation"? What of them?


read we're supposed to blame those on men, so leave them "as is" to keep shaming them.
 
2013-07-03 09:10:19 AM  

LasersHurt: This is sort of one of those "A point but also not a point" things. On the one hand, calling everything "man" MIGHT be inaccurate or annoying, as most things are open to both genders. On the other, we also are hu-mans who are part of man-kind, etc. "Man" has also always been a generic term for humans.

I don't think you make things much clearer, less "offensive," or less annoying if you keep it OR change it. Kind of a lose-lose, but also supremely unimportant.

Maybe in a few specific instances, it might be good to change it.


If women wanted to be treated as equals in language, they should have been made equal by God, instead as property to be traded away for land rights and protection. This is clearly an attack on Man's dominance over the lesser gender! Whats that honey? Coming. No dear I am not being mean on the internet. Yes wife, whatever you want.
 
2013-07-03 09:11:25 AM  

WhippingBoy: Why don't we just kill all men? That's what they're really going for here.


They don't want to kill men...more like they don't want any default reference or status in society to be gendered.  You know how in the French language, EVERY word is either masculine or feminine?  That's the opposite of what they want.

Basically, take gender identity out of society, period.
 
2013-07-03 09:12:48 AM  

Brakefornobody: Is that a mandate?

/In related news, like vegans and PETA, it is rapidly becoming impossible to parody feminists anymore.


I used to go on the defensive a bit whenever anyone told me that they were a feminist. Now I just laugh and laugh and laugh.
 
2013-07-03 09:16:02 AM  

Lexx: WhippingBoy: Why don't we just kill all men? That's what they're really going for here.

They don't want to kill men...more like they don't want any default reference or status in society to be gendered.  You know how in the French language, EVERY word is either masculine or feminine?  That's the opposite of what they want.

Basically, take gender identity out of society, period.


Its that way with Spanish too.  You'd have to change the entire language.  Compared to these other languages, English if far more gender neutral.
 
2013-07-03 09:16:35 AM  
Just asked my journeyman if she minds being called one or if she wanted to be called a journey level luthier, she rolled her eyes and said "if that's all someone has to biatch about then they seriously need a reality check"
 
2013-07-03 09:18:59 AM  
So are they going to get rid of Women also? Make it Wo? or Ho? or I don't know, anything that doesn't have man in it?
 
2013-07-03 09:21:43 AM  
How are we going to manage... oh crap, sorry... in the face of all these demands... CRAP... stupidstupidstupid... to rid ourselves of this mangey... AHHHHHHH!

I'm sorry... I've tried to be a good neuter... I just... I just... stop my mandibles... oh that's it. I give up.
 
2013-07-03 09:21:53 AM  

Kevua: So are they going to get rid of Women also? Make it Wo? or Ho? or I don't know, anything that doesn't have man in it?


Womyn.  You hadn't heard?
 
2013-07-03 09:22:29 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
"The English language is all about subliminal domination. Take the word "semester". It's a perfect example of this school's discriminatory preference of semen to ovaries. That's why I ' m petitioning to have next term be referred to as Winter Ovester."
 
2013-07-03 09:23:02 AM  

Abuse Liability: Lexx: WhippingBoy: Why don't we just kill all men? That's what they're really going for here.

They don't want to kill men...more like they don't want any default reference or status in society to be gendered.  You know how in the French language, EVERY word is either masculine or feminine?  That's the opposite of what they want.

Basically, take gender identity out of society, period.

Its that way with Spanish too.  You'd have to change the entire language.  Compared to these other languages, English if far more gender neutral.


Not just Spanish and French.  Every romance language (Latin, Portuguese, Italian, and other minor ones).  The gender-neutralization is just a over the top.  Sure, language evolves over time, but this is getting ridiculous.
 
2013-07-03 09:23:08 AM  
The murder of the English language is just one of many crimes committed in the name of political correctness.
 
2013-07-03 09:23:24 AM  

Lexx: I'm waiting for humans to get renamed "humes".


finalfantasy.neoseeker.com
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
www.marxists.org
 
2013-07-03 09:23:53 AM  
So I take it they'll be getting rid of gender-specific bathrooms and sanitary napkin dispensers next. They'd better be.
 
2013-07-03 09:25:08 AM  

ramblinwreck: Abuse Liability: Lexx: WhippingBoy: Why don't we just kill all men? That's what they're really going for here.

They don't want to kill men...more like they don't want any default reference or status in society to be gendered.  You know how in the French language, EVERY word is either masculine or feminine?  That's the opposite of what they want.

Basically, take gender identity out of society, period.

Its that way with Spanish too.  You'd have to change the entire language.  Compared to these other languages, English if far more gender neutral.

Not just Spanish and French.  Every romance language (Latin, Portuguese, Italian, and other minor ones).  The gender-neutralization is just a over the top.  Sure, language evolves over time, but this is getting ridiculous.


They're hoping to change the thinking of humanity by changing the very way that human thought & language is framed.  It's actually a pretty smart way to go about it.
 
2013-07-03 09:26:14 AM  
Cock-man oppressor!!

content7.flixster.com


pic is borrowed

gutter is a tool
 
2013-07-03 09:27:34 AM  

Lexx: ramblinwreck: Abuse Liability: Lexx: WhippingBoy: Why don't we just kill all men? That's what they're really going for here.

They don't want to kill men...more like they don't want any default reference or status in society to be gendered.  You know how in the French language, EVERY word is either masculine or feminine?  That's the opposite of what they want.

Basically, take gender identity out of society, period.

Its that way with Spanish too.  You'd have to change the entire language.  Compared to these other languages, English if far more gender neutral.

Not just Spanish and French.  Every romance language (Latin, Portuguese, Italian, and other minor ones).  The gender-neutralization is just a over the top.  Sure, language evolves over time, but this is getting ridiculous.

They're hoping to change the thinking of humanity by changing the very way that human thought & language is framed.  It's actually a pretty smart way to go about it.


Agrees:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-03 09:28:38 AM  

Lexx: Kevua: So are they going to get rid of Women also? Make it Wo? or Ho? or I don't know, anything that doesn't have man in it?

Womyn.  You hadn't heard?


Joke's on the wimminfolk, then, because they've just inserted a "Y" chromosome into their name.
 
2013-07-03 09:28:44 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Cock-man oppressor!!

[content7.flixster.com image 104x248]

pic is borrowed

gutter is a tool


anotherplotdevice.files.wordpress.com

Incoming First-year students
 
2013-07-03 09:34:09 AM  

WhippingBoy: So I take it they'll be getting rid of gender-specific bathrooms and sanitary napkin dispensers next. They'd better be.


Why even have different locker rooms? I applaud our gender neutral overlords.  This is going to be sweet.  I mean why shower seperately? We're not defined by our genitals

/starship troopers Link to NSFW video
 
2013-07-03 09:39:54 AM  
Jesusephina Christine, not this shiat again.
 
2013-07-03 09:46:16 AM  

ManRay: Are there really women that are bothered by this sort of thing?

And when I say "man," I'm talking about man as in mankind, not man as in men...I mean, you a woman and all, but we man.


For my part, I wouldn't say I'm *bothered*, but neither would I say I disapprove of the changes either. A lot of these subtle changes have already made their way into the lexicon without issues, like fire fighters instead of firemen.

There is still a presumption, even in the US, that male is the default. This is an incorrect assumption, since there are actually more women than men. But we are encouraged to think this way, from past biases which shape our perceptions subtly. Movies are all about men, most acclaimed books are, most acclaimed authors are, most politicians are, most historical figures are, most famous scientists are. I have no idea what the male to female ratio is on fark, but unless I make a comment specifically betraying my gender, I am assumed to be male. It doesn't bother me, but it is interesting too.

\It would be nice if there was a gender-neutral pronoun. So much easier. I think "they" is becoming something of a singular gender neutral pronoun, but this causes apoplexy in the grammar nazis.
 
2013-07-03 09:50:21 AM  

Qellaqan: ManRay: Are there really women that are bothered by this sort of thing?

And when I say "man," I'm talking about man as in mankind, not man as in men...I mean, you a woman and all, but we man.

For my part, I wouldn't say I'm *bothered*, but neither would I say I disapprove of the changes either. A lot of these subtle changes have already made their way into the lexicon without issues, like fire fighters instead of firemen.

There is still a presumption, even in the US, that male is the default. This is an incorrect assumption, since there are actually more women than men. But we are encouraged to think this way, from past biases which shape our perceptions subtly. Movies are all about men, most acclaimed books are, most acclaimed authors are, most politicians are, most historical figures are, most famous scientists are. I have no idea what the male to female ratio is on fark, but unless I make a comment specifically betraying my gender, I am assumed to be male. It doesn't bother me, but it is interesting too.

\It would be nice if there was a gender-neutral pronoun. So much easier. I think "they" is becoming something of a singular gender neutral pronoun, but this causes apoplexy in the grammar nazis.


"ze" The ridiculous word you're looking for is "ze".
 
2013-07-03 09:54:20 AM  
Why am I still surprised that there is such a cadre of men that apparently get their knickers in an enormous wad over this? There is some evidence that language biases perception, and it's not going to hurt anyone.

\At my university, the freshmen are all called first-years because Saint Jefferson said no one ever stops learning.
\\It's stupid, but whatever, you get used to it.
 
2013-07-03 09:54:48 AM  
This was handled in the very first part of the first title of the United States Code; "1 USC § 1 - Words denoting number, gender, and so forth ":

In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, unless the context indicates otherwise-
words importing the singular include and apply to several persons, parties, or things;
words importing the plural include the singular;
words importing the masculine gender include the feminine as well;
<SNIP>


The use of "he or she" is awkward and inefficient, and generally a waste of time.  "First World Problems," indeed.  When someone violates 1 USC § 1, prosecute them for it.  When someone offends you by saying "policeman", get over yourself.
 
2013-07-03 09:55:48 AM  
Incredible that a few vocal "feminists" can womanipulate the state like this.
 
2013-07-03 09:56:04 AM  

MythDragon: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x468]
"The English language is all about subliminal domination. Take the word "semester". It's a perfect example of this school's discriminatory preference of semen to ovaries. That's why I ' m petitioning to have next term be referred to as Winter Ovester


That's my friend's sister. Good to see her on Fark.

/CSS
 
2013-07-03 09:59:03 AM  
To be fair, standard curricula for varying subjects graduate on an average of anywhere from three years (education) to five years (engineering), and people can take more or fewer courses per term to vary that even more.  So the terms "freshman" "senior" and so on have been meaningless in the context of college for a while, even when I was in undergrad (a while back now) we were already using first-year/second-year/etc.

Sure, they make sense in a high school, where there's a standard basically-mandatory graduation track that's four years in length, but they've been gibberish with respect to post-secondary ed for quite some time now.

Qellaqan: It would be nice if there was a gender-neutral pronoun.


"He"/"him"/"his", etc, are gender-neutral in standard English.  It's not an "assumption that male is default", it's just the default pronoun in general.  The only reason we have gendered pronouns at all is to deal with the words and phrases we stole from French, honestly.

Most modern writing considers "She/her" an appropriate neutral as well, so long as you're consistent, this is an issue where even the professional linguists suffer from a severe and crippling dearth of farks given.

That's actually why these kinds of policies sometimes happen, the only people that give even the slightest fark about this are the ones that don't really understand the basic practicalities of a living language, the people opposed don't really have the care-factor to point out all the time exactly why they're retarded.
 
2013-07-03 10:01:29 AM  
Yakima to become Yakiparents
Walla Walla to become Walla Wallo
 
2013-07-03 10:05:15 AM  
Would somebody nuke Seattle, please?
 
2013-07-03 10:06:02 AM  
People who neither know the language nor its history come up with stupid stuff like this. Don't they teach this stuff in school any more. I learned in third grade, 1962, that often, when used by itself, the word "man" means male human. However, when used as a suffix "man" means "human being" and always did. It is completely gender free. Go find the definition of "wifman" and "wereman" and get back to me.
 
2013-07-03 10:08:15 AM  

Gunny Highway: Stewardesses are still just waitresses in the sky.


Stewardesses have steward in them.
Often.
 
2013-07-03 10:09:41 AM  

Jim_Callahan: To be fair, standard curricula for varying subjects graduate on an average of anywhere from three years (education) to five years (engineering), and people can take more or fewer courses per term to vary that even more.  So the terms "freshman" "senior" and so on have been meaningless in the context of college for a while, even when I was in undergrad (a while back now) we were already using first-year/second-year/etc.

Sure, they make sense in a high school, where there's a standard basically-mandatory graduation track that's four years in length, but they've been gibberish with respect to post-secondary ed for quite some time now.

Qellaqan: It would be nice if there was a gender-neutral pronoun.

"He"/"him"/"his", etc, are gender-neutral in standard English.  It's not an "assumption that male is default", it's just the default pronoun in general.  The only reason we have gendered pronouns at all is to deal with the words and phrases we stole from French, honestly.

Most modern writing considers "She/her" an appropriate neutral as well, so long as you're consistent, this is an issue where even the professional linguists suffer from a severe and crippling dearth of farks given.

That's actually why these kinds of policies sometimes happen, the only people that give even the slightest fark about this are the ones that don't really understand the basic practicalities of a living language, the people opposed don't really have the care-factor to point out all the time exactly why they're retarded.


He is gendered in english. Would you refer to a female professor as he? Then it's a gendered pronoun. Just because academically something has a definition doesn't mean it hold that definition colloquially. In chinese, there isn't gender to pronouns, and that seems so much nicer to me. I'd like to be able to talk about someone and not necessarily identify their gender to the listener, if it's irrelevant to them. The way we use pronouns, no matter what we're talking about, the gender of the subject is always brought up. Especially in writing (particular my own interest, science fiction) I'd love a widely accepted pronoun that's gender neuter but not "it".

Don't kid yourself, there is still a ton of bias. Only as a male could you blithely say it doesn't exist. A couple handy examples from the scifi world:  http://io9.com/5967253/female-science-fiction-and-fantasy-authors-sti l l-using-male-pseudonyms ,  http://io9.com/handy-charts-reveal-why-youve-never-heard-of-most-fema - 478627713

No one's making you care, but why reply with obvious nonsense?
 
2013-07-03 10:28:55 AM  
Thank goodness, those poor women are so delicate and fragile that they need to be protected from such sexist words.
 
2013-07-03 10:32:59 AM  

Kevua: So are they going to get rid of Women also? Make it Wo? or Ho? or I don't know, anything that doesn't have man in it?


The term "wife" would work. They rarely have a man in them.
 
2013-07-03 10:34:37 AM  

Qellaqan: Why am I still surprised that there is such a cadre of men that apparently get their knickers in an enormous wad over this? There is some evidence that language biases perception, and it's not going to hurt anyone.

\At my university, the freshmen are all called first-years because Saint Jefferson said no one ever stops learning.
\\It's stupid, but whatever, you get used to it.


We're not the ones changing the language, sunshine. It seems to me that the one's getting their knickers in a wad are the ones changing the words.
 
2013-07-03 10:52:08 AM  
And change manpower to person power while your'e at it.
 
2013-07-03 10:57:36 AM  

cig-mkr: And change manpower to person power while your'e at it.


That change is already here.  It's referred to as FTE (full-time-equivalent) hours.
 
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