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(Washington Post)   Did the President of Bolivia just smuggle Edward Snowden out of Russia?   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 153
    More: Interesting, Evo Morales, President of Bolivia, Bolivia, Russia, Russian President Vladimir Putin, Maduro, Moscow Airport, Russia Today  
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11404 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2013 at 8:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-02 10:18:27 PM  
Many European countries on the list - including Austria, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Switzerland - said he would have to make his request on their soil.
 -=-

Because these countries suck the American dick and would hand you over in a throb... er... heartbeat.
 
2013-07-02 10:21:26 PM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: The plot thickens ... this is interesting as hell.


Yeah,
We basically forced a diplomatic flight carrying a head of state to land in Europe.  Nice and subtle, "Land in Europe or you will run out of fuel and crash in the south atlantic, your choice".  What I don't understand was what they thought they would accomplish besides pissing off half of South America and Russia.  They couldn't have expected Bolivia to kick him off the plane wherever it landed, or expect them to allow police from whatever country they landed in to search the plane.  If he was on the plane he is going to Bolivia and we just delayed him 12 hours, if not we pissed off a lot of people for nothing.
 
2013-07-02 10:22:47 PM  

HK-MP5-SD: We basically forced a diplomatic flight carrying a head of state to land in Europe.


The USA had nothing to do with the plane being diverted, take off the tin foil.
 
2013-07-02 10:26:44 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Also ended up in Bolivia.
 
2013-07-02 10:27:54 PM  
Four, count 'em, FOUR greenlights to Main today about this guy.

This is farking absurd.
 
2013-07-02 10:38:58 PM  
Has the Internet made this guy a hero?
 
2013-07-02 10:40:23 PM  

Disgruntled Goat: Four, count 'em, FOUR greenlights to Main today about this guy.

This is farking absurd.


1 more and someone gets a footlong.

/eat fresh
 
2013-07-02 10:41:40 PM  

Jekylman: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x178]

Also ended up in Bolivia.


the guy in the upper-right--is that Worf?
 
2013-07-02 10:45:41 PM  
He should sneak into the US and use the Republicans' "path to citizenship".
 
2013-07-02 10:46:30 PM  

Jekylman: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x178]

Also ended up in Bolivia.


And like Butch and Sundance...never got out alive.

Snowden's choices of refuge just keep getting worse and worse, don't they?
 
2013-07-02 10:50:27 PM  
there have been 5 times in my history that I really wished for Castro's death, knowing it would turn the world's attention away from the U.S. having some stupid a** problem - this would be one
 
2013-07-02 10:59:02 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Where does this insanity come from? Implanted microchips just because you have a security clearance? Someone's been watching too many movies.


I'm heading to the vet to check. Just in case I have a "Answers to: Fido, If found please return to the NSA"  chip inside me.
 
2013-07-02 11:00:19 PM  
t3knomaser: We should not look at these sorts of programs as "necessary evils", but as mistakes. They move us farther from our ideals- we cease to be a shining city on the hill, and look much more like just another sloppy country with too many secrets.

Perhaps it is only a few of us who know we've ALWAYS been a sloppy country - from our inception - who hide truths even from ourselves. I am well aware of our failings but? Ideals, as long as we try collectively (and not politically) to reach them, aren't a negative thing.

If you feel the country is moving away from the ideal then the question is - what are you doing to change the status quo?
 
2013-07-02 11:02:40 PM  

davynelson: shame on the USA for lying and spying on its citizens

shame on the world for not offering Snowden refuge from a rogue police state

shame on American citizens for standing around with thumbs in mouths with nothing to say
yet again, as their freedoms and rights are stripped from them over and over and over

why you don't take your country back while there is still a system in place that would allow it
is beyond me.

your right to a fair trial is gone now, you do know that don't you, 'terrorist'?

what's next?  your right to free speech fo shizzle.


We get "Free speech zones"! You know, little isolated bubbles of Constitutionally protected turf. To want more is unpatriotic.
 
2013-07-02 11:05:05 PM  

parasol: If you feel the country is moving away from the ideal then the question is - what are you doing to change the status quo?


Type snarky memes on the internet while waiting for the next President Superman to fix everything for us?
 
2013-07-02 11:05:36 PM  

oren0: gfid: Ahhh, Bolivia - that bastion of freedom and democracy

Any moral high ground on "freedom and democracy" that the US had was gone the minute the government decided to pretend the fourth amendment didn't exist.


Since when did they do that?

I haven't seen anything out of PRISM that violates the fourth amendment.

FISA Court being used to issue search warrants, that fits Amendment IV requirements for a specific search.
Broad metadata sweeps, no personal identifying information, not an Amendment IV issue.

PRISM certainly looks like it was very carefully designed to hew to the exact limits of what they could do and stay within Fourth Amendment limitations.
 
2013-07-02 11:08:46 PM  

oren0: gfid: Ahhh, Bolivia - that bastion of freedom and democracy

Any moral high ground on "freedom and democracy" that the US had was gone the minute the government decided to pretend the fourth amendment didn't exist.


Not to mention the First, Second, Fifth, and Sixth...

Let's face it: when Ecuador offers 23 million for human rights training and nobody bats an eye, when you charge reporters with a crime for actually investigating and reporting/attempting to report the news, when the highest court in your land says you have to verbally declare that you are taking advantage of your Constitutional rights in order for them to apply to you, when you can be searched for having the audacity to travel within your own country--even via private means, when the Germans--who have much long experience at police states, tyranny, and other abuses of civil and human rights--openly declare that they do not trust you, when people are not free to love and have relationships with whomever they wish to love and have relationships with... you have long since lost any right to claim moral high ground, human rights watchdog, or free and democratic over anyone--anyone--in the world, regardless of how despotic and tyrannical they may seem to be.
 
2013-07-02 11:09:02 PM  

jsmilky: he probably has had a bug implanted in his ass so that Uncle Sam can track him.   There
is a price to pay for having access to taboo government info.  The gov't isn't so stupid as to
not implant microchips in their employees who have high level clearance.   Otherwise he
would have just moved to Idaho and assumed another identity.  Nonetheless, there is more
to this story.


You honestly think the US government implants chips in everybody with a TS/SCI clearance?  Chips that let them be tracked anywhere in the world?

Methinks you've been watching way, WAY too much TV.  That tracking implant in Casino Royale was one of the few totally fantasy things out of that movie.
 
2013-07-02 11:14:09 PM  
Bolivia should declare war on France and Portugal. They'd both surrender.
 
2013-07-02 11:18:45 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Hmmm.  What's the protocol for asking/claiming a foreign military/presidential plane is lying about the passengerinin


In 1990, when Saddam invaded Kuwait, a British Air 747 enroute to Malaysia stopped at Kuwait City. 1/2 the passengers stood up and got off the plane. The plane taxed down the run way to take off. But Iraqi tanks entered the run way and the remaining passengers were taken hostage.
i.dailymail.co.uk
The hostages were later released with the help of Jesse Jackson. They attempted to sue British Air, but the British government gave them immunity(although French citizens did get compensation).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_149
 
2013-07-02 11:19:52 PM  
davynelson: shame on the USA for lying and spying on its citizens

shame on the world for not offering Snowden refuge from a rogue police state

shame on American citizens for standing around with thumbs in mouths with nothing to say
yet again, as their freedoms and rights are stripped from them over and over and over

why you don't take your country back while there is still a system in place that would allow it
is beyond me.


your right to a fair trial is gone now, you do know that don't you, 'terrorist'?

what's next?  your right to free speech fo shizzle.


panem et circenses
 
2013-07-02 11:24:10 PM  

Disgruntled Goat: Four, count 'em, FOUR greenlights to Main today about this guy.

This is farking absurd.


What is absurd is the fact that Snowden is the story and not what we have allowed our government to strip from us in the interest of "safety."

THAT is what is absurd about this.

Snowden should be next to anonymous. The story is the fact that we have no civil rights and that our Constitution is viewed by this President as "flawed." That Bush started this program and that this President, a Constitutional scholar, did not immediately put an end to it. Why do we even know Snowden's whereabouts?

In both the Bush and Obama administrations, Woodward and Bernstein would be wanted criminals--traitors to the United States (just as many have called Greenwald for running this story). 40 years ago, they brought down a Presidency, won a Pulitzer (The Post, for which they worked, won a Pulitzer for having done a public service for breaking the Watergate scandal), and are accounted as having done the greatest journalistic work of all time. Personally, I'm more interested in what Bernstein and Woodward have to say about the situation with Greenwald and Snowden (haven't been able to find anything yet) than politicians and these hack reporters of today.
 
2013-07-02 11:25:27 PM  

aerojockey: Here's what I don't understand: France and Portugal closed off their airspace.  It refueled in Spain (apparently they were allowed to refuel but not disembark), then landed in Austria?  How did the airplane get to Spain if France was closed off its airspace?  And, after refueling, why couldn't it have flown around Portugal?



Over Italy and then the Mediterranean Sea.

I would be embarrassed to be a Frenchman or Spaniard with such wimpy leaders. It's like Obama is the new King of Europe.
 
2013-07-02 11:29:47 PM  

CygnusDarius: It would be interesting if another country, let's say Bolivia, or maybe Russia, suggested the idea of the UN doing sanctions to the US. And other countries rallied behind that.


Edward Snowden thought that all sorts of people would rally against the U.S. as well. How's that working out for him so far?

Also: the U.N. knows who's paying to keep their lights on. It would be a shame if sanctions forced us to cut back on some of our discretionary spending.
 
2013-07-02 11:33:12 PM  

EngineerAU: Stone Meadow: I still think he was foolish for turning down Pooty-Poot's offer. Hell, I am functionally fluent in Spanish (lived in Guatemala as a youngster, and later in Honduras, Ecuador and Spain) and  STILL would have chosen to stay in Russia under his circumstances. Bolivia? Third world shiathole.

A third world shiathole from which he would be difficult to track. He could hang out there days or months, only to reappear somewhere else on the planet. Or he could slip across the boarder into Argentina. Economic issues aside, Argentina is a pretty nice country and one that doesn't really care all that much about what the US thinks about them.


Difficult to track? Do you have any idea how the modern international passport system works? NSA dips into the data stream all countries use for passport control at their borders, and any movement by him would be on their screens within seconds, even if he was using a Bolivian passport.

Sure, Snowden could remain practically invisible within Bolivia...at least until he started using a credit/debit card, cell phone or email account. But he's an attention whore who craves the self-righteous narcissism that goes with revealing secrets, so he will be in NSA/CIA's sights within days if not hours of settling in Bolivia. If he'd just wanted protection he would have stayed in Russia, but their condition was that he remain silent, and that's not going to float with Snowden. Awesome...just farking awesome.
 
2013-07-02 11:38:18 PM  
Bolivian President Evo Morales on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-25-2007/president-ev o- morales
 
2013-07-02 11:44:45 PM  
Kid needed to bust Saddam in the mouth.
 
2013-07-02 11:52:59 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: This soap opera amuses me. Snowden clearly thought that everybody would rally around him, he would be seen as noble and righteous and countries would line up to fete him. Instead he's being rejected left and right, he can't find a country to take him, and he's criticizing the US for violating his rights and other blah after he blatantly and publicly violated US laws.

I don't think he thought his cunning plan the whole way through.


Hear hear! How dare he think that revealing illegal spying on US citizens would not be punished! The sooner we realize that the government controls us and not the other way around, the better! I applaud my betters for taking swift action.
 
2013-07-02 11:53:55 PM  
Is he going to Lake Titicaca?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I0Hee533Iw
 
2013-07-03 12:20:22 AM  
France, Italy, and Portugal refused to allow the plane access to their airspace. It eventually landed in Vienna. The Bolivians swear Snowden wasn't on board.

Now, France and Portugal are apparently allowing the plane to go overhead. There's also a pretty good chance Snowden is still in Moscow, because diplomats fly in and out of a different airport there than commercial passengers do. If Snowden were to get a diplomatic flight out of Moscow, it would first have to hop over to the main airport, which would obviously garner plenty of attention.
 
2013-07-03 12:24:24 AM  
I'd have liked to see the Bolivian plane to crash if only because it would be a diplomatic nightmare for France and Portugal
 
2013-07-03 12:29:06 AM  

Aigoo: The story is the fact that we have no civil rights


What's absurd is the idea that we have no civil rights
 
2013-07-03 12:29:24 AM  

LasersHurt: "We don't know what happened, but it was definitely a hostile act by the US."

Neat.


An act of war, possibly.
 
2013-07-03 12:44:24 AM  

Silverstaff: oren0: gfid: Ahhh, Bolivia - that bastion of freedom and democracy

Any moral high ground on "freedom and democracy" that the US had was gone the minute the government decided to pretend the fourth amendment didn't exist.

Since when did they do that?

I haven't seen anything out of PRISM that violates the fourth amendment.

FISA Court being used to issue search warrants, that fits Amendment IV requirements for a specific search.
Broad metadata sweeps, no personal identifying information, not an Amendment IV issue.

PRISM certainly looks like it was very carefully designed to hew to the exact limits of what they could do and stay within Fourth Amendment limitations.


"No Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized "

Anyone who believes that a FISA warrant for the communications of all Americans meets this standard needs a remedial civics course.

Congress passed a law forbidding the NSA from targeting US citizens in the US. The NSA's legal interpretation of that was that it allowed them to intercept all communications from Americans because they could do that without "targeting" individuals. If there's anything to be learned here, the intelligence apparatus doesn't care about rights, the law, or the constitution.
 
2013-07-03 12:50:29 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Jekylman: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x178]

Also ended up in Bolivia.

And like Butch and Sundance...never got out alive.

Snowden's choices of refuge just keep getting worse and worse, don't they?


Personally I think he should just skip off to say Polynesia - there are so many tiny islands out there he could probably just pick one and buy a boat to get him there for like $10, if he were willing to give up contact with the world for a while...
 
2013-07-03 01:41:18 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: It's disguising how our paranoid "leaders" are doing their goddamnedness to make an example of this guy,


Good lesson though in how no matter how much you hate the politicians in Washington, South Americans hate them more.
 
2013-07-03 02:21:46 AM  
Came looking for a shoop of Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego with Snowden's face cleverly inserted, leaving disappointed.
 
2013-07-03 02:31:50 AM  
10 years down the road, we discover he's an actor hired by the munchkin guild of Oz
 
2013-07-03 03:34:20 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: The USA had nothing to do with the plane being diverted, take off the tin foil.


Bullshiat. Why else would any European nation care whether or not Snowden happened to be flying through its airspace?
 
2013-07-03 06:01:54 AM  
Came for Butch and Sundance, leaving happy
 
2013-07-03 06:08:48 AM  

Stone Meadow: But he's an attention whore who craves the self-righteous narcissism that goes with revealing secrets, so he will be in NSA/CIA's sights within days if not hours of settling in Bolivia.


You sound... concerned.
 
2013-07-03 06:22:42 AM  
Hows that "rule of law" working out for you? dikbag countries just proved to the world that they won't follow their OWN rules when the rubber meets the road... Also proves that every country farks every other country, and all the fake 'rage' from these countries is fake.

Is it legal to deny a diplomat almost anything?? what ever happened to diplomatic immunity??

\fake rage is fake.
 
2013-07-03 07:07:32 AM  
Reroutings will continue until Morales improves
 
2013-07-03 07:28:02 AM  

Ivo Shandor: Bullshiat. Why else would any European nation care whether or not Snowden happened to be flying through its airspace?


Because they don't want to get involved, it's really not that hard to figure out.
 
2013-07-03 08:03:54 AM  
The hardest parts were getting a condom big enough for Snowden to fit in and stuffing him into a pregnant woman without killing her. After that, it was all smooth sailing from there.
 
2013-07-03 08:31:18 AM  

davynelson: shame on the USA for lying and spying on its citizens

shame on the world for not offering Snowden refuge from a rogue police state

shame on American citizens for standing around with thumbs in mouths with nothing to say
yet again, as their freedoms and rights are stripped from them over and over and over

why you don't take your country back while there is still a system in place that would allow it
is beyond me.

your right to a fair trial is gone now, you do know that don't you, 'terrorist'?

what's next?  your right to free speech fo shizzle.


I've been assured that the 2nd amendment protects the rest, so clearly out rights aren't being violated, or these would be a mass armed uprising. Unless gun owners only care about owning guns and nothing else, but surely they wouldn't lie about that.
 
2013-07-03 09:39:00 AM  
[Ironic] ... and we're still supposed to still believe the NSA has awesome powers?
That's just what they want you to think
 
2013-07-03 10:32:57 AM  

BostonEMT: Hows that "rule of law" working out for you? dikbag countries just proved to the world that they won't follow their OWN rules when the rubber meets the road... Also proves that every country farks every other country, and all the fake 'rage' from these countries is fake.

Is it legal to deny a diplomat almost anything?? what ever happened to diplomatic immunity??

\fake rage is fake.


You said countries thrice.
 
2013-07-03 10:34:10 AM  

EngineerAU: Stone Meadow: But he's an attention whore who craves the self-righteous narcissism that goes with revealing secrets, so he will be in NSA/CIA's sights within days if not hours of settling in Bolivia.

You sound... concerned.


Not really. More like pointing out the obvious. The real-time abilities of US intel agencies have been growing exponentially for a decade, and the idea that someone they want to track can stay hidden is a pipe dream from now on. Snowden of all people should have known that.
 
2013-07-03 12:36:00 PM  

Dinobot: I'd have liked to see the Bolivian plane to crash if only because it would be a diplomatic nightmare for France and Portugal


and whoever forced them to do what they did. Whoever might that have been, do you suppose?
 
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