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(SeattlePI)   Latest development in Zimmerman case is: a) Judge declares mistrial, b) Zimmerman changes plea to guilty, or c) prosecution gets their feelings hurt by a photo posted on Instagram of people eating ice cream   (seattlepi.com) divider line 386
    More: Weird, George Zimmerman  
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10459 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2013 at 6:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-02 10:11:28 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: No it doesn't look like that at all
Especially given George's history of calls

There was one person who went into the fateful meeting spouting racist comments.

It wasn't George

Never heard anything about Trayvon spouting racist comments to Zimmerman. Transcripts? Citation?


He spouted them to precious.

That is what he went into the confrontation doing.
 
2013-07-02 10:11:30 PM

Scerpes: Hobodeluxe: Tatsuma: Also one thing I really found interesting about the trial. Turns out a police officer, trying to make Zimmerman slip up and see if he was lying, told him 'Turns out that someone filmed the whole incident on their phone' and Zimmerman immediately closed his eyes, said 'Thank G-d!' and sighed in relief.

of course he said that. he's taken criminal justice and knows their tactics

Yes...lie to the suspect about the existence of a video is a course in it's own right.


telling them you have evidence you don't is one of the oldest tricks in the book to try to get them to change their story
 
2013-07-02 10:12:21 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: No it doesn't look like that at all
Especially given George's history of calls

There was one person who went into the fateful meeting spouting racist comments.

It wasn't George

Never heard anything about Trayvon spouting racist comments to Zimmerman. Transcripts? Citation?


He was spouting them on the phone to his girlfriend.
 
2013-07-02 10:12:25 PM

Phinn: fredklein: tenpoundsofcheese: Beating the crap out of someone is not legal.
So your logic doesn't apply in this case.

doesn't look like Martin was innocent of assaulting George.

It's not legal to defend yourself against an armed crazy guy following you... but it's legal to gun down an innocent person walking home after following them by car and on foot.

Interesting interpretation of the law.

You're not familiar with the concept in self-defense of an threat needing to be IMMINENT, are you?

Does it ring any bells at all?  Any flicker of comprehension going on in there?


So, you're being followed by a crazy guy with a gun. He grabs his gun, maybe points it at you. Is that "IMMINENT" enough?

The truth is, we don't know what happened. But it's certainly possible that Trayvon was in fear for his life when he jumped Zimmerman. Why else would he change from 'running away' to 'confronting', if nothing had happened?
 
2013-07-02 10:14:21 PM

Mi-5: mikeray: The girl has a point. Even if your on the prosecutions side you can not say that Jabba is not stupid. I mean if she was my kid and acted like she did in court I would would just tell her " Jabba, I love ya honey but your pretty stupid" then I would hope she can get out of high school in the next 3 years.

BY calling the witness "Jabba" only serves to display YOUR stupidity and undermines any argument you may attempt to make.  Name-calling only allows us to point and laugh at you and say "Oh my god! He honestly believes he improves the effectiveness of his argument by calling the witness funny names!  What a jackass!"

Congrats! You've openly shown your stupidity in a worldwide forum, <b>mikeray>/b>!


I may just be a creepy ass cracker!
 
2013-07-02 10:16:51 PM

Hobodeluxe: Scerpes: Hobodeluxe: Tatsuma: Also one thing I really found interesting about the trial. Turns out a police officer, trying to make Zimmerman slip up and see if he was lying, told him 'Turns out that someone filmed the whole incident on their phone' and Zimmerman immediately closed his eyes, said 'Thank G-d!' and sighed in relief.

of course he said that. he's taken criminal justice and knows their tactics

Yes...lie to the suspect about the existence of a video is a course in it's own right.

telling them you have evidence you don't is one of the oldest tricks in the book to try to get them to change their story


There's been no one on either side of this that has said that they think Zimmerman is smarter than a box of rocks. Your argument is really that he's a criminal mastermind and knew exactly how to react when given that scenario? Really? Wow.
 
2013-07-02 10:16:59 PM

fredklein: I_C_Weener: You don't need to defend against someone following you. Following is not assault, battery, or orherwise illegal or even physical.

Then stalking is legal?

And, yes, following someone could be interpreted as a threat.


So, in your mind following someone is reason to assault and beat a person. But using a gun when you are trapped by a person top of you beating you senseless is murder?

You play a good game baiting people but this logic thing is over your head.
 
2013-07-02 10:17:11 PM

fredklein: MarkEC: Was Zimmerman's nose getting broken "perfectly legal"?

Yes- IF Trayvon was scared of the crazy guy with a gun following him, and acted in Self Defense.


Zimmerman admits he went for his pocket saying he was grabbing for his phone. I personally think that is when he went for his gun and Trayvon clocked him before he got it. but that's jmho.
Zimmerman isn't trustworthy. He lied about the addresses and he lied about not following him after he said ok. he lied about the money they had. and I think he lied about Trayvon speaking to him after he shot him . The doctors that looked at the ME report that I've heard from say death was instant. the hollow point destroyed his heart and lungs. the best he could have done is spit up blood and gurgle.
 
2013-07-02 10:17:12 PM

fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.


And there's reasonable doubt.
 
2013-07-02 10:18:04 PM

fredklein: Phinn: fredklein: tenpoundsofcheese: Beating the crap out of someone is not legal.
So your logic doesn't apply in this case.

doesn't look like Martin was innocent of assaulting George.

It's not legal to defend yourself against an armed crazy guy following you... but it's legal to gun down an innocent person walking home after following them by car and on foot.

Interesting interpretation of the law.

You're not familiar with the concept in self-defense of an threat needing to be IMMINENT, are you?

Does it ring any bells at all?  Any flicker of comprehension going on in there?

So, you're being followed by a crazy guy with a gun. He grabs his gun, maybe points it at you. Is that "IMMINENT" enough?

The truth is, we don't know what happened. But it's certainly possible that Trayvon was in fear for his life when he jumped Zimmerman. Why else would he change from 'running away' to 'confronting', if nothing had happened?


At this point fredklein, you are coming across as pretty biased and willing to think of any circumstances to justify your stance.

Best just to wait until the entirety of the trial.  Right now, it's not looking good for the prosecution--and the "Creepy ass cracker" comments + "Dee Dee's" testimony certainly puts the situation in a rather favorable light for the defense.
 
2013-07-02 10:18:17 PM

Scerpes: fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.

And there's reasonable doubt.


which is why i think they'll get him for negligent manslaughter
 
2013-07-02 10:18:44 PM

Hobodeluxe: Zimmerman admits he went for his pocket saying he was grabbing for his phone. I personally think that is when he went for his gun and Trayvon clocked him before he got it.


Based on what?  You're pulling that out of your ass.
 
2013-07-02 10:19:19 PM

Hobodeluxe: Scerpes: fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.

And there's reasonable doubt.

which is why i think they'll get him for negligent manslaughter


Reasonable doubt is going to cut across manslaughter as well.
 
2013-07-02 10:19:37 PM

mikeray: I may just be a creepy ass cracker!


Who knows?  I don't care either way.  But I do know you have no credibility.
 
2013-07-02 10:21:48 PM

Mi-5: mikeray: I may just be a creepy ass cracker!

Who knows?  I don't care either way.  But I do know you have no credibility.


Creepy ass crackers don't have credibility.
 
2013-07-02 10:23:55 PM

MarkEC: Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: No it doesn't look like that at all
Especially given George's history of calls

There was one person who went into the fateful meeting spouting racist comments.

It wasn't George

Never heard anything about Trayvon spouting racist comments to Zimmerman. Transcripts? Citation?

Martin's GF's testimony: "Crazy-ass cracker" said by Martin.


...that's it? One instance of "cracker"? And when did "cracker" become a horrible racial slur?
 
2013-07-02 10:25:11 PM

mikeray: Mi-5: mikeray: I may just be a creepy ass cracker!

Who knows?  I don't care either way.  But I do know you have no credibility.

Creepy ass crackers don't have credibility.


HAHAH!! You make me laugh!  Please continue, <b>mikeray</b>.
 
2013-07-02 10:26:14 PM
I'm back. I'm not going to bother trying to catch up with the thread, but I apologize if I misquoted anyone earlier. Anyhow, if either of the two of you I was discussing with earlier would like to place a wager on the verdict, I'm game. I believe someone said not guilty in less than two days?
 
2013-07-02 10:27:27 PM

thenumber5: I_C_Weener: Wait, what?  I'm confused at the legal significance here.

Attacking a witness in a public forum after giving testimony, intimidating future witnesses with the idea that if you are not well spoken you will be "Shamed" by the defense


The comment was concerning his opening statements the day before, not about any witnesses. In fact it was posted on trial day 2 and W#8's testimony was on trial day 3 and 4. Unless she borrowed Obamas time machine to see the testimony of W#8's testimony on Monday or Tuesday there is no way that anyone can infer that she was talking about anything else.

Hobodeluxe: big day for prosecution today. Zimmerman caught in a huge lie. (had to walk all the way through the alley to find an address) all those houses have addresses on the front right beside the outside light. even George's house had one there. He knew where he was.
the medical examiner also said his injuries were insignificant, not a result of head being slammed into the concrete several times. no stitches, no real trauma. just small scratches and a couple of small knots.


He never said he couldn't find an address number, it was the street name that he had forgotten and there were no street signs around to remind him. However he did know the street name one block over (across the top of the "T") so he went there to get an address. The prosecution knows this because they presented the video walkthrough yesterday. They misrepresented what Zimmerman said in it. The laws for self-defense have shiat-all to do with current injuries, it mainly concerns possible future injuries, one can have zero injuries and still be justified in a self-defense claim. The lead investigator even said this on the stand yesterday.
 
2013-07-02 10:30:18 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: No it doesn't look like that at all
Especially given George's history of calls

There was one person who went into the fateful meeting spouting racist comments.

It wasn't George

Never heard anything about Trayvon spouting racist comments to Zimmerman. Transcripts? Citation?

He spouted them to precious.

That is what he went into the confrontation doing.


He said it to his girlfriend? When did he say it to Zimmerman?
 
2013-07-02 10:30:46 PM

Mi-5: mikeray: I may just be a creepy ass cracker!

Who knows?  I don't care either way.  But I do know you have no credibility.


in his defense, no one here has any credibility on the case. Also, this has turned into a team sport at this point, with Team Zimm Vs. Team Marty
 
2013-07-02 10:32:32 PM

Hobodeluxe: He lied about the addresses and he lied about not following him after he said ok.


What lie about the address? Being stressed and drawing a blank is lying?
Have you listened to the recording? After he said ok, the wind noise on his phone stopped and his breathing returned to normal. Explain how, during the following 1.5 minutes that he was still talking to the dispatcher, he was still following Martin. Plus, Martin was well within 1.5 minutes walking distance to his Father's GF's house where he was staying.
 
2013-07-02 10:36:32 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: He said it to his girlfriend? When did he say it to Zimmerman?


The point was Martin brought racial animus to the confrontation.
 
2013-07-02 10:37:57 PM

Phinn: fredklein: What is "Legal" is not always "Right". And what's "Right" is not always "Legal". If a series of 'perfectly legal' steps end up with an innocent person dead... I have to question the Rightness of the Law.

The next time we're talking about a case being tried in a court of rightness, your opinions may be worth something.


Were you born such an insufferable prick or did you have to study?
 
2013-07-02 10:42:09 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: MarkEC: Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: No it doesn't look like that at all
Especially given George's history of calls

There was one person who went into the fateful meeting spouting racist comments.

It wasn't George

Never heard anything about Trayvon spouting racist comments to Zimmerman. Transcripts? Citation?

Martin's GF's testimony: "Crazy-ass cracker" said by Martin.

...that's it? One instance of "cracker"? And when did "cracker" become a horrible racial slur?


If a white calls a black the "N" word it's racist. If a black calls a white "cracker" it's racist. Do we really need to come up with guidelines on levels of being racist for this discussion?
 
2013-07-02 10:43:31 PM
No way would they be in it for the money, not with there history.

Where history?
 
2013-07-02 10:50:25 PM

Scerpes: fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.

And there's reasonable doubt.


it is more than that.


on the one hand there are collaborating witnesses and physical evidence to George's account

on the other hand there is...there is uhhhh...there are some theories or something about an alternate series of events that says that George had absolutely no reason to feel threatened and decided to shoot Martin anyway.
 
2013-07-02 10:51:55 PM

Hobodeluxe: he lied about the money they had.


you are lying about that.

George never lied about the money they had.

His wife did.  He is not responsible for what his wife says.
 
2013-07-02 10:53:22 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: No it doesn't look like that at all
Especially given George's history of calls

There was one person who went into the fateful meeting spouting racist comments.

It wasn't George

Never heard anything about Trayvon spouting racist comments to Zimmerman. Transcripts? Citation?

He spouted them to precious.

That is what he went into the confrontation doing.

He said it to his girlfriend? When did he say it to Zimmerman?


I never said he said anything to George.
I said he went into the confrontation spouting racist comments with Precious confirmed.
 
2013-07-02 10:53:53 PM

fredklein: So, you're being followed by a crazy guy with a gun. [All kinds of IMPORTANT EVIDENCE OMITTED.] He grabs his gun, maybe points it at you.



Prove that GZ "grabbed his gun" before Martin made an aggressive move against him, and I'll discuss it.

By the way, the "maybes" in your speculations go in the Defendant's favor.  That's how "proof" in a criminal trial works.

fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.



Then you can't prove GZ is guilty.
 
2013-07-02 10:55:50 PM
I wonder how many 40 pound boxes were prevented that night?

Really not fair that the defense cannot show anything about Traypack. Dude was as thuggish and nasty as they can be. But only Zimmerman's past can be brought up, and that just ain't right.
 
2013-07-02 10:58:06 PM

Hobodeluxe: big day for prosecution today. Zimmerman caught in a huge lie. (had to walk all the way through the alley to find an address) all those houses have addresses on the front right beside the outside light. even George's house had one there. He knew where he was.
the medical examiner also said his injuries were insignificant, not a result of head being slammed into the concrete several times. no stitches, no real trauma. just small scratches and a couple of small knots.


Except the ME never actually saw the wounds just pictures of the wounds. The defence will call the the doctor that actually treated the wounds, and the paramedics that examined the wounds at the scene.  Also the severity of the wounds doesn't actually matter, what matters is how severe zimmerman reasonably THOUGHT the wounds were at the time.  If he reasonably THOUGHT they were severe he was justified.
 
2013-07-02 10:58:20 PM

Hobodeluxe: Scerpes: fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.

And there's reasonable doubt.

which is why i think they'll get him for negligent manslaughter



Self-defense is a complete defense to all homicides.

No one should be forced to choose between defending his life (which, if you think about it for two seconds, is the most basic, fundamental human right possible) and committing a felony by the very same act.

If you can't disprove the claim that he acted in self-defense, then he cannot be guilty on any of the homicide offenses.
 
2013-07-02 10:59:49 PM

Phinn: fredklein: So, you're being followed by a crazy guy with a gun. [All kinds of IMPORTANT EVIDENCE OMITTED.] He grabs his gun, maybe points it at you.

Prove that GZ "grabbed his gun" before Martin made an aggressive move against him, and I'll discuss it.

By the way, the "maybes" in your speculations go in the Defendant's favor.  That's how "proof" in a criminal trial works.

fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.

Then you can't prove GZ is guilty.



They don't need to prove him guilty. They just have to find him guilty.
 
2013-07-02 11:01:04 PM

Thunderpipes: I wonder how many 40 pound boxes were prevented that night?

Really not fair that the defense cannot show anything about Traypack. Dude was as thuggish and nasty as they can be. But only Zimmerman's past can be brought up, and that just ain't right.


we will see if they bring up that George defended the rights of a poor black person and went after the police department, including two officers who testified FOR him in this trial.

Oh, he also spent his Sundays walking through black neighborhoods handing out flyers to get their support for that case.
 
2013-07-02 11:05:02 PM

AndreMA: Phinn: fredklein: What is "Legal" is not always "Right". And what's "Right" is not always "Legal". If a series of 'perfectly legal' steps end up with an innocent person dead... I have to question the Rightness of the Law.

The next time we're talking about a case being tried in a court of rightness, your opinions may be worth something.

Were you born such an insufferable prick or did you have to study?



I find muddled emotionalism masquerading as legal reasoning to be insufferable.

I'm all in favor of having a rich emotional life, but don't dress up your hate and urge for vengeance and call it "justice."
 
2013-07-02 11:05:04 PM

HK-MP5-SD: Hobodeluxe: big day for prosecution today. Zimmerman caught in a huge lie. (had to walk all the way through the alley to find an address) all those houses have addresses on the front right beside the outside light. even George's house had one there. He knew where he was.
the medical examiner also said his injuries were insignificant, not a result of head being slammed into the concrete several times. no stitches, no real trauma. just small scratches and a couple of small knots.

Except the ME never actually saw the wounds just pictures of the wounds. The defence will call the the doctor that actually treated the wounds, and the paramedics that examined the wounds at the scene.  Also the severity of the wounds doesn't actually matter, what matters is how severe zimmerman reasonably THOUGHT the wounds were at the time.  If he reasonably THOUGHT they were severe he was justified.


it would be interesting for the defense to have a witness on the stand who is then punched in nose, dropped to the ground and have someone on top of them MMA style who then hits the victim (witness saying his arms were raining down on him) and slamming his head into the floor a couple times.

Then getting up and asking the guy if he felt that he was danger of being seriously hurt.
 
2013-07-02 11:08:20 PM

MarkEC: If a white calls a black the "N" word it's racist. If a black calls a white "cracker" it's racist. Do we really need to come up with guidelines on levels of being racist for this discussion?


I'm sorry, but some "racist words" just cannot be taken seriously as a horrible insult. "Cracker" is one of them. If you get insulted by being called a food product, then you're the one with the problem.

tenpoundsofcheese: I never said he said anything to George.
I said he went into the confrontation spouting racist comments with Precious confirmed.


Then what's the problem?
And any reason you keep calling Trayvon's girlfriend "Precious"?

Thunderpipes: I wonder how many 40 pound boxes were prevented that night?

Really not fair that the defense cannot show anything about Traypack. Dude was as thuggish and nasty as they can be. But only Zimmerman's past can be brought up, and that just ain't right.


Yeah, a few tweets, no police record, and getting a suspension from school like many other boys of all races have done totally makes Trayvon a demon beast totally bent on murder and rape and destruction. Maybe you should go out and the heroic thing and slaughter all of those other boys who've done the same thing before they turn into menaces II society.
 
2013-07-02 11:14:40 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: MarkEC: discussion?

I'm sorry, but some "racist words" just cannot be taken seriously as a horrible insult. "Cracker" is one of them. If you get insulted by being called a food product, then you're the one with the problem.


Ever been insulted by being called a type of flower? a small, winged, mythical creature? a cigarette or twig? Then you're the one with the problem.
 
2013-07-02 11:15:40 PM
I_C_Weener: You don't need to defend against someone following you. Following is not assault, battery, or orherwise illegal or even physical.


(2)A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree,

Zimmerman followed Trayvon. "Willful" means intentionally instead of accidentally. "Maliciously" means "characterized by wicked motives or intentions." "Repeatedly" means "more than once."

Zimmerman intentionally followed Trayvon. When Zimmerman called Trayvon an "asshole" and a "punk," he revealed his wicked or mischevious motives or intentions. Zimmerman followed Trayvon repeatedly; first in his car, until he lost sight of him. When he sighted Trayvon again, he followed on foot--however briefly.

George Zimmerman criminally stalked Trayvon Martin within the meaning of Florida law.
 
2013-07-02 11:17:23 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: I never said he said anything to George.
I said he went into the confrontation spouting racist comments with Precious confirmed.

Then what's the problem?


I didn't say there was a problem.  I just said that only one of the two people went into the confrontation spouting racist comments.

And any reason you keep calling Trayvon's girlfriend "Precious"?

In another thread someone pointed out that she looks like that famous movie star who was in the Precious movie.  I believe her character was also called Precious.
That movie star even got an Academy Award Nomination for Best Actress!!!
 
2013-07-02 11:18:06 PM

wellreadneck: Keizer_Ghidorah: MarkEC: discussion?

I'm sorry, but some "racist words" just cannot be taken seriously as a horrible insult. "Cracker" is one of them. If you get insulted by being called a food product, then you're the one with the problem.

Ever been insulted by being called a type of flower? a small, winged, mythical creature? a cigarette or twig? Then you're the one with the problem.


No I haven't, actually. Words only have power over you when you allow them to, and most insults aren't even worthy of a condescending sigh.
 
2013-07-02 11:21:39 PM

aceline: I_C_Weener: You don't need to defend against someone following you. Following is not assault, battery, or orherwise illegal or even physical.


(2)A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person commits the offense of stalking, a misdemeanor of the first degree,

Zimmerman followed Trayvon. "Willful" means intentionally instead of accidentally. "Maliciously" means "characterized by wicked motives or intentions." "Repeatedly" means "more than once."


Oh, you again.
Well this will be easy...
When did George REPEATEDLY follow Martin.

He never called Martin an "asshole" or a "punk".  He made a general statement about people who commit crimes who get away with it.  He was never specific about Martin.

Is the prosecution done preparing for tomorrow?  Is that why you are posting now?


George Zimmerman criminally stalked Trayvon Martin within the meaning of Florida law.
 
2013-07-02 11:22:16 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Keizer_Ghidorah: tenpoundsofcheese: I never said he said anything to George.
I said he went into the confrontation spouting racist comments with Precious confirmed.

Then what's the problem?

I didn't say there was a problem.  I just said that only one of the two people went into the confrontation spouting racist comments.


Saying one word to his girlfriend before the confrontation =/= "going into the confrontation spouting".

And any reason you keep calling Trayvon's girlfriend "Precious"?

In another thread someone pointed out that she looks like that famous movie star who was in the Precious movie.  I believe her character was also called Precious.
That movie star even got an Academy Award Nomination for Best Actress!!!


How retarded.
 
2013-07-02 11:22:34 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: wellreadneck: Keizer_Ghidorah: MarkEC: discussion?

I'm sorry, but some "racist words" just cannot be taken seriously as a horrible insult. "Cracker" is one of them. If you get insulted by being called a food product, then you're the one with the problem.

Ever been insulted by being called a type of flower? a small, winged, mythical creature? a cigarette or twig? Then you're the one with the problem.

No I haven't, actually. Words only have power over you when you allow them to, and most insults aren't even worthy of a condescending sigh.


So you are okay with what Paula Dean said?
You think that there should have been no consequences?
 
2013-07-02 11:25:34 PM

fredklein: HAMMERTOE: They've also proved that Trayvon was meandering through yards at night,

If by that you mean 'walking on the sidewalk', then yes.


Zimmerman has stated that the suspicious behavior was that he wasn't walking on the sidewalk but walking on peoples lawns and looking at the windows of the houses as he passed them.

in the rain,

Trayvon didn't control the weather. What's he supposed to do, wait for the sun to shine before he goes home?

and then led the "creepy cracker" who spotted him doing so into a nice dark back-alley

What a "nice dark back-alley" looks like:

[www1.pictures.zimbio.com image 404x594]
[imageshack.us image 755x502]


Well those are the back of the houses with no street in between them so it is very close to being an alley. As to the dark part it's very disingenuous to show a daylight picture to make your point, however seeing as you did it's quite clear that there are no streetlights back there so it definitely was dark.

suitable for an ambush

::Sigh::

I guess you're one of those people who believe that Zimmerman, who was actively chasing Trayvon the whole time (by vehicle and on foot), and who was pissed at "these assholes" who "always get away", suddenly had a change of heart and 'just decided to go back to his truck' at the exact same moment that Trayvon, who was running away from the "creepy cracker" (your words) following him happened to decide to turn and confront him for no reason.

That is to say, two people who were showing one type of behavior (hunter, prey) suddenly, and for no reason, changed into the other. At the same time.

Note that, at no time did Zimmerman commit trespassing or any other crime

You use certain words ("nice dark back-alley") to imply that Trayvon was doing wrong, but defend Zimmerman for being in that very same place.

in trying to keep Martin under surveillance until the po-po arrived"

Despite being told "We don't need you to do that, Sir."


Actually before that the 911 operator had asked Zimmerman "What is he doing now" a couple of times so one could argue that he was doing what they asked him to do. In addition Zimmerman responded in the affirmative after they said that.

Now let me ask you a question. Seeing as Zimmerman had already passed the place where the altercation started when he went to the far street to get an address that he could tie to a street then why didn't Martin start it then or How did Zimmerman miss seeing him? Could it be that he had gone down the Leg of the "T" and then returned to confront Zimmerman? I mean he had quite a lead on Zimmerman, he was a member of the football team so obviously he wasn't out of shape running-wise and he had told his friend on the phone that he was near or next to his house at one point in the conversation after he had lost Zimmerman. Why was he at the top of the "T" when Zimmerman was walking back to his truck?
 
2013-07-02 11:26:02 PM

Yogimus: Phinn: fredklein: So, you're being followed by a crazy guy with a gun. [All kinds of IMPORTANT EVIDENCE OMITTED.] He grabs his gun, maybe points it at you.

Prove that GZ "grabbed his gun" before Martin made an aggressive move against him, and I'll discuss it.

By the way, the "maybes" in your speculations go in the Defendant's favor.  That's how "proof" in a criminal trial works.

fredklein: The truth is, we don't know what happened.

Then you can't prove GZ is guilty.

They don't need to prove him guilty. They just have to find him guilty.



You're confused.

The jury will be asked to determine if the prosecution has proven GZ guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.  They will be told that the law requires that if they have a doubt that GZ is guilty, and that doubt is based on reason and evidence, then they must find him not guilty.

The State is required to present sufficient evidence to disprove the claim that GZ acted in self-defense.  If the State fails to conclusively prove that GZ did not act in self-defense, then he cannot be found guilty.

In fact, even before the case goes to the jury, the judge is supposed to determine on her own if a guilty verdict is even legitimately possible, given the evidence presented.  A Not Guilty verdict should clearly be entered by the judge in this case, but I have little reason to think that the judge will be brave enough to do that.  Judges are elected, after all, and elected offices breed cowards.
 
2013-07-02 11:26:32 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: I'm sorry, but some "racist words" just cannot be taken seriously as a horrible insult. "Cracker" is one of them. If you get insulted by being called a food product, then you're the one with the problem.


It's not a matter of how insulting is is to someone on the receiving end. It speaks to what racial motives the person who uses such language has. Or does that no longer matter since the filtered audio shows Zimmerman didn't utter a racial epithet, and one uttered by Martin doesn't matter since he's black and we all know blacks can't be racist?
 
2013-07-02 11:35:13 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: MarkEC: If a white calls a black the "N" word it's racist. If a black calls a white "cracker" it's racist. Do we really need to come up with guidelines on levels of being racist for this discussion?

I'm sorry, but some "racist words" just cannot be taken seriously as a horrible insult. "Cracker" is one of them. If you get insulted by being called a food product, then you're the one with the problem.

tenpoundsofcheese: I never said he said anything to George.
I said he went into the confrontation spouting racist comments with Precious confirmed.

Then what's the problem?
And any reason you keep calling Trayvon's girlfriend "Precious"?

Thunderpipes: I wonder how many 40 pound boxes were prevented that night?

Really not fair that the defense cannot show anything about Traypack. Dude was as thuggish and nasty as they can be. But only Zimmerman's past can be brought up, and that just ain't right.

Yeah, a few tweets, no police record, and getting a suspension from school like many other boys of all races have done totally makes Trayvon a demon beast totally bent on murder and rape and destruction. Maybe you should go out and the heroic thing and slaughter all of those other boys who've done the same thing before they turn into menaces II society.


Uh huh. And you missed the facebook stuff where his buddies are saying they need some weed? Pictures of him with a gun? Suspensions, burglary tools..... Gold teefs? No_LIMIT_NI**A? Really?
 
2013-07-02 11:36:42 PM
I don't know why the Zimmerman supporters even try to reason/argue with the Martin supporters.  It's over.  There's a trial going on and the prosecution is getting absolutely destroyed.  And there's a reason why this is happening ... if you take Zimmerman's story at face value, he didn't commit a crime ... and there's one other eye witness and he corroborates Zimmerman's story ... and there are no witnesses (or frankly any other evidence) that suggests he's lying.  Wait a week and point to the scoreboard.

The prosecutor should be disbarred for bringing a prosecution a 1L would know she couldn't win.
 
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