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(SeattlePI)   Latest development in Zimmerman case is: a) Judge declares mistrial, b) Zimmerman changes plea to guilty, or c) prosecution gets their feelings hurt by a photo posted on Instagram of people eating ice cream   (seattlepi.com) divider line 386
    More: Weird, George Zimmerman  
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10472 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2013 at 6:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-02 07:17:47 PM  
Is this woman on headline news "Jane Hispanic whitename" drunk on the air?  Or does she not understand how microphones work?
 
2013-07-02 07:18:23 PM  
Well the prosecution is getting slaughtered and they literally have failed to net a single win so far, so I can understand them being a little bit butthurt over shiat.
 
2013-07-02 07:18:24 PM  
Strange that we have so much racial tension in this case when Zimmerman is as white as Obama.
 
2013-07-02 07:18:49 PM  

Yogimus: Is this woman on headline news "Jane Hispanic whitename" drunk on the air?  Or does she not understand how microphones work?


She went to Jabbas school of speaking
 
2013-07-02 07:19:27 PM  

Tatsuma: Well the prosecution is getting slaughtered and they literally have failed to net a single win so far, so I can understand them being a little bit butthurt over shiat.


Their opening statement didn't include a knock knock joke. That was a big win.
 
2013-07-02 07:19:50 PM  
I'm thinking that we all deserve much better entertainment. And that goes for movies,too.
 
2013-07-02 07:21:14 PM  

thenumber5: I_C_Weener: Wait, what?  I'm confused at the legal significance here.

Attacking a witness in a public forum after giving testimony, intimidating future witnesses with the idea that if you are not well spoken you will be "Shamed" by the defense


Well, I'm adding it to seminar on ethics. I don't see a lawyer being held responsible for a tweet by his daughter though.
 
2013-07-02 07:21:17 PM  
Zimmerman pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder, claiming he shot Martin in self-defence.

And a horrible death it would have been for him had he not had his gun to hand. Imagine Zimmerman's lifeless corpse splayed across the ground, riddled with Skittle holes, each one dripping pools of Arizona iced tea onto the ground.
 
2013-07-02 07:22:23 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: I_C_Weener: Wait, what?  I'm confused at the legal significance here.

And you call yourself a real lawyer.


It's Family Law. I'm less lawyer and more fairy godfather granting happiness.
 
2013-07-02 07:22:49 PM  

Yogimus: NightOwl2255: Yogimus: Do you ever remember a day when you were not a biatch?

When I was farking your mom.

Yeah... that day you were a "John".

/FACE!


If she gives it up for free, is she still a whore?
 
2013-07-02 07:22:59 PM  

CliChe Guevara: Hobodeluxe: big day for prosecution today. Zimmerman caught in a huge lie.

GZ has been caught in at least a dozen of them. So what? Just because everyone knows he is a lying sack of shiat doesn't change the fact that the prosecution has no one who -can- prove what happened. Still no case no matter how many lies he is caught in.


They can prove he killed Trayvon. They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.
 
2013-07-02 07:25:04 PM  

Gordon Bennett: Zimmerman pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder, claiming he shot Martin in self-defence.

And a horrible death it would have been for him had he not had his gun to hand. Imagine Zimmerman's lifeless corpse splayed across the ground, riddled with Skittle holes, each one dripping pools of Arizona iced tea onto the ground.


Or a quiet death from a brain injury.  Both were idiots, one was better armed.
 
2013-07-02 07:25:30 PM  

CliChe Guevara: GZ has been caught in at least a dozen of them.


Citation?
 
2013-07-02 07:27:13 PM  

NightOwl2255: Yogimus: NightOwl2255: Yogimus: Do you ever remember a day when you were not a biatch?

When I was farking your mom.

Yeah... that day you were a "John".

/FACE!

If she gives it up for free, is she still a whore?


Technically she charges, but ends up giving out some refunds.
 
2013-07-02 07:28:09 PM  

Yogimus: Gordon Bennett: Zimmerman pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder, claiming he shot Martin in self-defence.

And a horrible death it would have been for him had he not had his gun to hand. Imagine Zimmerman's lifeless corpse splayed across the ground, riddled with Skittle holes, each one dripping pools of Arizona iced tea onto the ground.

Or a quiet death from a brain injury.  Both were idiots, one was better armed.


Don't bring sidewalk to a gun fight?
 
2013-07-02 07:28:45 PM  

mikeray: The girl has a point. Even if your on the prosecutions side you can not say that Jabba is not stupid. I mean if she was my kid and acted like she did in court I would would just tell her " Jabba, I love ya honey but your pretty stupid" then I would hope she can get out of high school in the next 3 years.


This, you f'in sheep snorters
 
2013-07-02 07:29:31 PM  

Yogimus: Gordon Bennett: Zimmerman pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder, claiming he shot Martin in self-defence.

And a horrible death it would have been for him had he not had his gun to hand. Imagine Zimmerman's lifeless corpse splayed across the ground, riddled with Skittle holes, each one dripping pools of Arizona iced tea onto the ground.

Or a quiet death from a brain injury.  Both were idiots, one was a farking pansy better armed.

 
2013-07-02 07:29:37 PM  

NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.



Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.
 
2013-07-02 07:29:40 PM  

Carth: Their opening statement didn't include a knock knock joke. That was a big win.


Well they had a joke fall flat, but fine I'll give you this one win.
 
2013-07-02 07:30:59 PM  

Yogimus: Technically she charges, but ends up giving out some refunds.


Well, not to brag but she said I was so good she should be paying me.
 
2013-07-02 07:31:12 PM  

PapaChester: mikeray: The girl has a point. Even if your on the prosecutions side you can not say that Jabba is not stupid. I mean if she was my kid and acted like she did in court I would would just tell her " Jabba, I love ya honey but your pretty stupid" then I would hope she can get out of high school in the next 3 years.

This, you f'in sheep snorters


This girl was traumatized by that trigger-happy douche.
 
2013-07-02 07:32:37 PM  

CliChe Guevara: Hobodeluxe: big day for prosecution today. Zimmerman caught in a huge lie.

GZ has been caught in at least a dozen of them. So what? Just because everyone knows he is a lying sack of shiat doesn't change the fact that the prosecution has no one who -can- prove what happened. Still no case no matter how many lies he is caught in.


I'm hoping the judge allows lesser charges to come into play and they get him for negligent manslaughter.
 
2013-07-02 07:33:55 PM  

Phinn: NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.

Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.


Or that they can show that. They can show that an altercation happened. They have only his statement that he was walking away and the girls statement that Trayvon would have told her before Treyvon would assault someone.

Unless there is another eyewitness?
 
2013-07-02 07:34:25 PM  

Phinn: NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.

Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.


I'm not expert on Florida law, or any other criminal law for that matter, but the part you deleted about actually killing the dead person is usually of some value to the prosecution's case. I was also under the impression that if you are a mutual combatant that you lose self-defense as a legal defense--but I may be mixing it up with losing your right to damages for assault or something else.
 
2013-07-02 07:35:46 PM  
Is it the "two daughters - one cone" thing - because that's just nasty.
/rocky road
 
2013-07-02 07:37:34 PM  

Saberus Terras: I saw some of the trial today, the defense attorney was trying to discredit the ME on the stand by pointing out she was working with the DA's office.  indirectly as she worked for the State. Like you'd expect across the country.

Pretty clear he was trying to bank on the jury not knowing how government works and paint the false image of the ME being in the prosecution's pocket.


Except that it wasn't the medical examiner from the area of the shooting.  It was the medical examiner from the area where the special prosecutor is the State Attorney.  She's no more or less than a paid expert witness testifying on one specific area and is subject to having her bias toward the State attorney she works very closely with pointed out.
 
2013-07-02 07:38:53 PM  

NightOwl2255: But then again, as the average thread gets about 100 comments, Zimmerman is a cash cow for Drew.


100 comments? I remember when 100 comments were basically considered dead threads and 'cash cow threads' were basically stuff like I/P that always brought between 600-800 posts on average.
 
2013-07-02 07:39:32 PM  

Hobodeluxe: CliChe Guevara: Hobodeluxe: big day for prosecution today. Zimmerman caught in a huge lie.

GZ has been caught in at least a dozen of them. So what? Just because everyone knows he is a lying sack of shiat doesn't change the fact that the prosecution has no one who -can- prove what happened. Still no case no matter how many lies he is caught in.

I'm hoping the judge allows lesser charges to come into play and they get him for negligent manslaughter.


Lesser included charges are in play in Florida.  If it actually gets to the jury.
 
2013-07-02 07:39:32 PM  

I_C_Weener: Phinn: NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.

Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.

Or that they can show that. They can show that an altercation happened. They have only his statement that he was walking away and the girls statement that Trayvon would have told her before Treyvon would assault someone.

Unless there is another eyewitness?


He admits to following him in a car. Strike one. The confrontation occurs outside the car: strike two. This isn't baseball, so there's really no need for three strikes. The guy was scared s-less that he actually found a "suspicious person" while out on neighborhood watch. The only reason he got out of his car is that he knew he had a gun. Self-defense requires that your fear for your life is reasonable. I don't think he had any reasonable fear that his life was in danger.
 
2013-07-02 07:40:16 PM  
Also one thing I really found interesting about the trial. Turns out a police officer, trying to make Zimmerman slip up and see if he was lying, told him 'Turns out that someone filmed the whole incident on their phone' and Zimmerman immediately closed his eyes, said 'Thank G-d!' and sighed in relief.
 
2013-07-02 07:41:45 PM  

NorCalLos: He admits to following him in a car. Strike one. The confrontation occurs outside the car: strike two. This isn't baseball, so there's really no need for three strikes. The guy was scared s-less that he actually found a "suspicious person" while out on neighborhood watch. The only reason he got out of his car is that he knew he had a gun. Self-defense requires that your fear for your life is reasonable. I don't think he had any reasonable fear that his life was in danger.


He may not have feared for his life at the moment he got out of the car.  Under Florida statute, it doesn't matter.  He could have even started a physical altercation with Martin by striking him first.  So long as he was unable to escape and in fear of imminent bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's justified.
 
2013-07-02 07:41:58 PM  

NorCalLos: He admits to following him in a car. Strike one.


It's not illegal to follow someone in your car. Especially when you're captain of the neighborhood watch. No strike

NorCalLos: The confrontation occurs outside the car: strike two.


As it was clarified during the trial by police officers and the 911 operator, it was absolutely not illegal for him to get out of his car and follow trayvon. No strike.

NorCalLos: This isn't baseball, so there's really no need for three strikes.


This ain't baseball, and you ain't got shiat.
 
2013-07-02 07:42:34 PM  

BigNumber12: HA! I was wondering if that would earn a rebuke.


How will the judge rebuke the daughter, a non-participant in this case?  Hold her in contempt of twitter?  Or just send her father to county for 30 days due to guilt by association?
 
2013-07-02 07:42:56 PM  

Scerpes: He may not have feared for his life at the moment he got out of the car. Under Florida statute, it doesn't matter. He could have even started a physical altercation with Martin by striking him first. So long as he was unable to escape and in fear of imminent bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's justified.


Not only that, but it is absolutely legal for someone to follow someone else and ask them what they are doing in their neighborhood.
 
2013-07-02 07:43:11 PM  

NorCalLos: I'm not expert on Florida law, or any other criminal law for that matter, but the part you deleted about actually killing the dead person is usually of some value to the prosecution's case. I was also under the impression that if you are a mutual combatant that you lose self-defense as a legal defense--but I may be mixing it up with losing your right to damages for assault or something else.


Not true in Florida - so long as you are in fear of imminent bodily harm and unable to escape, you're still entitled to use self defense - even if you started the physical altercation.
 
2013-07-02 07:44:25 PM  

NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.


According to SYG, irrelevant. They've also proved that Trayvon was meandering through yards at night, in the rain, and then led the "creepy cracker" who spotted him doing so into a nice dark back-alley suitable for an ambush, which subsequently took place. Note that, at no time did Zimmerman commit trespassing or any other crime, in trying to keep Martin under surveillance until the po-po arrived. Where Martin led, Zimmerman followed.
 
2013-07-02 07:45:06 PM  

NorCalLos: Phinn: NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.

Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.

I'm not expert on Florida law, or any other criminal law for that matter, but the part you deleted about actually killing the dead person is usually of some value to the prosecution's case. I was also under the impression that if you are a mutual combatant that you lose self-defense as a legal defense--but I may be mixing it up with losing your right to damages for assault or something else.


What do you mean by mutual combatant?
 
2013-07-02 07:45:16 PM  

Tatsuma: Scerpes: He may not have feared for his life at the moment he got out of the car. Under Florida statute, it doesn't matter. He could have even started a physical altercation with Martin by striking him first. So long as he was unable to escape and in fear of imminent bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's justified.

Not only that, but it is absolutely legal for someone to follow someone else and ask them what they are doing in their neighborhood.


No question.  But that's all really irrelevant to the self defense claim.  Zimmerman was an idiot, but assuming he was reasonably in fear of his life an unable to escape at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's legally justified.  An idiot, but a morally justified idiot.
 
2013-07-02 07:45:50 PM  

NorCalLos: I_C_Weener: Phinn: NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.

Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.

Or that they can show that. They can show that an altercation happened. They have only his statement that he was walking away and the girls statement that Trayvon would have told her before Treyvon would assault someone.

Unless there is another eyewitness?

He admits to following him in a car. Strike one. The confrontation occurs outside the car: strike two. This isn't baseball, so there's really no need for three strikes. The guy was scared s-less that he actually found a "suspicious person" while out on neighborhood watch. The only reason he got out of his car is that he knew he had a gun. Self-defense requires that your fear for your life is reasonable. I don't think he had any reasonable fear that his life was in danger.


Where'd you get your legal GED? I think you may be a bit off here on...a lot. Burden of proof and presumption of innocence to start. Then look at impermissible inferences and proximate cause. Then look at reasonable doubt and the legal definition of Murder 2 and self-defense in Florida. Then take your emotion out of it.

They cannot prove he started or didn't start the altercation. They cannot prove that he was not walking away. The closest they can come is the girls testimony which does establish it at all, and get Zimmerman to admit he lied about how it started.

Still to be determined: reasonable fear and reasonableness of shooting (was he near Trayvon?).
 
2013-07-02 07:46:21 PM  

Scerpes: No question. But that's all really irrelevant to the self defense claim. Zimmerman was an idiot, but assuming he was reasonably in fear of his life an unable to escape at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's legally justified. An idiot, but a morally justified idiot.


Oh of course, that was just to placate the idiots who are shouting BUT HE GOT OUT OF HIS CAR as if that changed anything or was illegal.
 
2013-07-02 07:46:22 PM  

Scerpes: Tatsuma: Scerpes: He may not have feared for his life at the moment he got out of the car. Under Florida statute, it doesn't matter. He could have even started a physical altercation with Martin by striking him first. So long as he was unable to escape and in fear of imminent bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's justified.

Not only that, but it is absolutely legal for someone to follow someone else and ask them what they are doing in their neighborhood.

No question.  But that's all really irrelevant to the self defense claim.  Zimmerman was an idiot, but assuming he was reasonably in fear of his life an unable to escape at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's legally justified.  An idiot, but a morally justified idiot.


make that legally justified idiot.
 
2013-07-02 07:46:29 PM  

Tatsuma: NorCalLos: He admits to following him in a car. Strike one.

It's not illegal to follow someone in your car. Especially when you're captain of the neighborhood watch. No strike


Since when do neighborhood watch captains get their own set of laws? This severely undermines your credibility. I didn't say it's illegal to follow someone in your car. I said it's not the behavior of someone trying to avoid an altercation. It's the behavior of someone initiating an altercation.

Ditto regarding your next point. And the last thing you said was just whargarbl
 
2013-07-02 07:46:49 PM  

NorCalLos: Phinn: NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.

Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.

I'm not expert on Florida law, or any other criminal law for that matter, ...


Did you even stay at a Holiday Inn last night?
 
2013-07-02 07:46:52 PM  

Phinn: NorCalLos: They can prove he didn't make any effort to avoid an altercation.

Show us where that is a meaningful component of the law of murder and/or self-defense.


He stopped his vehicle, got out, went looking for a fight (against the advice of the 911 operator), got into a fight, then shot and killed his opponent.

I'm fairly certain that you can't go that far out of your way looking for a fight and then claim that you had to use deadly force in self-defense in that very fight, especially when the guy you're fighting had been going out of his way to avoid that same fight.
 
2013-07-02 07:47:06 PM  

Scerpes: NorCalLos: He admits to following him in a car. Strike one. The confrontation occurs outside the car: strike two. This isn't baseball, so there's really no need for three strikes. The guy was scared s-less that he actually found a "suspicious person" while out on neighborhood watch. The only reason he got out of his car is that he knew he had a gun. Self-defense requires that your fear for your life is reasonable. I don't think he had any reasonable fear that his life was in danger.

He may not have feared for his life at the moment he got out of the car.  Under Florida statute, it doesn't matter.  He could have even started a physical altercation with Martin by striking him first.  So long as he was unable to escape and in fear of imminent bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's justified.



As I understand it, this is a matter of interpretation of the law.
 
2013-07-02 07:48:28 PM  

Tatsuma: Scerpes: No question. But that's all really irrelevant to the self defense claim. Zimmerman was an idiot, but assuming he was reasonably in fear of his life an unable to escape at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's legally justified. An idiot, but a morally justified idiot.

Oh of course, that was just to placate the idiots who are shouting BUT HE GOT OUT OF HIS CAR as if that changed anything or was illegal.


I know.  I like the claim that he should have just identified himself to Martin.  Never mind the fact that the prosecution spent the first couple days of the trial establishing that neighborhood watch groups are actively discouraged from confronting suspects.  And that the dispatcher discouraged him from confronting Martin.

The prosecution wants it both ways.
 
2013-07-02 07:50:51 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Has Angela Corey filed murder charges against the girl yet? She's clearly racially profiling by choosing vanilla ice cream.


how about this....a " citizen's grand jury" (read: No legal authority whatsoever) has filed an indictment against her for falsifying the arrest warrant.
 
2013-07-02 07:51:37 PM  

NorCalLos: Scerpes: NorCalLos: He admits to following him in a car. Strike one. The confrontation occurs outside the car: strike two. This isn't baseball, so there's really no need for three strikes. The guy was scared s-less that he actually found a "suspicious person" while out on neighborhood watch. The only reason he got out of his car is that he knew he had a gun. Self-defense requires that your fear for your life is reasonable. I don't think he had any reasonable fear that his life was in danger.

He may not have feared for his life at the moment he got out of the car.  Under Florida statute, it doesn't matter.  He could have even started a physical altercation with Martin by striking him first.  So long as he was unable to escape and in fear of imminent bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's justified.


As I understand it, this is a matter of interpretation of the law.


Then you misunderstand.  The statute is clear:

776.041Use of force by aggressor.-The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

* * *(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:(a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or* * *
 
2013-07-02 07:53:10 PM  

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Popcorn Johnny: Has Angela Corey filed murder charges against the girl yet? She's clearly racially profiling by choosing vanilla ice cream.

how about this....a " citizen's grand jury" (read: No legal authority whatsoever) has filed an indictment against her for falsifying the arrest warrant.


Yeah...the citizen's grand jury is stupid.  There are some real morons in Florida.  They should have filed a complaint with the state bar for over filing this case.  Corey's an embarrassment.
 
2013-07-02 07:53:18 PM  

Scerpes: NorCalLos: He admits to following him in a car. Strike one. The confrontation occurs outside the car: strike two. This isn't baseball, so there's really no need for three strikes. The guy was scared s-less that he actually found a "suspicious person" while out on neighborhood watch. The only reason he got out of his car is that he knew he had a gun. Self-defense requires that your fear for your life is reasonable. I don't think he had any reasonable fear that his life was in danger.

He may not have feared for his life at the moment he got out of the car.  Under Florida statute, it doesn't matter.  He could have even started a physical altercation with Martin by striking him first.  So long as he was unable to escape and in fear of imminent bodily harm at the moment he pulled the trigger, he's justified.


Good point. State has to prove the elements of Murder 2 and that it was not self-defense.

Really the case is coming down to 1. Is Zimmerman lying? 2. Per his story would a reasonable person in the same position have feared for his safety (exact terms vary and I don't know Florida's). Might be feared for life or feared great bodily harm....which is pretty low standard.


And I've followed people in my neighborhood to make sure they were in fact the sales reptiles they claimed. Doesn't justify them or me in starting an altercation but I'm allowed to even if they are a different skin color.
 
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