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(Mother Jones)   Metadata schmetadata. The NSA is actually recording every call made every day   (motherjones.com) divider line 382
    More: Followup, NSA, NSA Revelations, international call  
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4808 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jul 2013 at 7:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-03 06:54:56 AM
I imagine that a good bit of space could be saved doing voice recognition and then storing the text. Even if it's not perfect, I wouldn't be surprised if you could to a degree automate determining the quality of the transcription (are there nonsense word pairings? is the grammar totally off?) and then store the original digitized voice (needn't be terribly good quality) for those calls where the voice recognition is questionable.

Plus they could probably weed out a lot of things like repeated calls between businesses that have a logical reason to communicate.
 
2013-07-03 07:01:29 AM

RexTalionis: If this is the slide they're using to justify a claim that the NSA is recording every email or chat, then they are full of it.


It doesn't look like that's what they did.

The slide was intended in support of item #1 and relies on processing the metadata we already knew about, then providing the opportunity to tap specific content due to the real time notification. This would presumably be somewhat focused.

The bulk recording and storage is item #2.
 
2013-07-03 07:01:49 AM
Main Page:  A request to join a protest against NSA surveillance overreach.

Politics Page: Farkers voice counter-protest.
 
2013-07-03 07:32:43 AM

Phinn: sendtodave: I DO NOT WANT MY COUNTRY TO KEEP ME SAFE AT MY OWN EXPENSE ANY MORE.

No one is genuinely interested in keeping you safe.

The target of the surveillance is you.  The purpose and function of the surveillance is to control you.

You are the livestock, and you are being farmed in a kind of open-air, free-range environment.  The owners of this plantation learned a long time ago that it is far less expensive for them to run the operation, and you are far more productive and less revolution-y, if you are not kept in tight confinement, and are unaware of your status as livestock.


In the highest antiquity, the people did not know that they had rulers. In the next age they loved and praised them. In the next, they feared them. In the next, they despised them.  -Lao Tzu
 
2013-07-03 07:42:04 AM
Don't worry, one day, a Republican will be President again. And then 50% of the people who posted in this thread will be happy about the NSA again. It will be like magic.
 
2013-07-03 07:48:38 AM
I know Fark is not news, but this really shouldn't be news to anyone.
 
2013-07-03 07:48:53 AM

KeatingFive: Don't worry, one day, a Republican will be President again. And then 50% of the people who posted in this thread will be happy about the NSA again. It will be like magic.


I don't see what wedge social issues have to do with this.
 
2013-07-03 07:53:17 AM

KeatingFive: Don't worry, one day, a Republican will be President again. And then 50% of the people who posted in this thread will be happy about the NSA again. It will be like magic.

 
2013-07-03 08:22:23 AM
As an agency, the NSA is probably violating the HIPPA act if they record any call by a doctor or nurse discussing a patient.  I call doctors on their cell phones all the time to get orders on my patients.
 
2013-07-03 08:29:39 AM

Peki: It's not storage or technology, it's analysis.

Call me when there is a spike in work-at-home transcription jobs (gov't sends you a tape, you write it down. Or pick out key words. gov't sends you a check. Easily done for pennies per assignment, and there are people rabid at the chance to make money from home) or minimum-wage clerical positions in the quantity you'd see after a call center opens.


Ahem. A friend of mine might have heard of such jobs. Though supposedly, the transcriptions to are used to train speech recognition algorithms.
 
2013-07-03 08:35:31 AM

GF named my left testicle thundercles: i am not afraid of terrorists.
this needs to stop.

 
2013-07-03 08:36:38 AM

kinkkerbelle: As an agency, the NSA is probably violating the HIPPA act if they record any call by a doctor or nurse discussing a patient.  I call doctors on their cell phones all the time to get orders on my patients.



Attorney-client privilege, too.

The Stasi would have wet themselves to have this kind of technology.  No, really, that's what the Stasi said -- Former Stasi Officer: The NSA Domestic Surveillance Program Would Have Been 'A Dream Come True' For East Germany
 
2013-07-03 10:02:40 AM

numbquil: vygramul: numbquil: vygramul: firefly212: unlikely: This is simply technically impossible.

I'm not saying they wouldn't if they could, but the technology does not exist.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

As impossible as a massive datacenter tapping into all the lines and having multiple Zetabytes of storage capacity? Whaddya suppose they're storing there, cookbook recipes?

5 zetabytes isn't enough to hold all the phone calls made by Americans since 9/11. Of 2006.

I'm not saying they are doing it but for one thing you are assuming that they store the calls forever. Secondly, the article does not claim that they are recording every single phone call. It simply claims that they are recording billions of phone calls. That is a lot different than every single call ever since 9/11.

Yabut the article is claiming it without any supporting documentation. That's like saying, "Look! That SEAL team member has a gun capable of firing 600 rounds a minute! We conclude he kills hundreds of Americans a year!"

Well then why not just say that. You know instead of claiming that the technology doesn't exist and whatnot. I'm pretty sure that we'll have a much larger picture of what is really going on by the end of all this. I think Snowden is using the fact that they have no idea exactly what he took to insure his safety. He's not going to do one big dump of all the data at once.


I'm hoping we have a clearer picture at the end of all this. Then finding someone who says they totally support Snowden will be like finding a 70 year-old who admits they voted against JFK.
 
2013-07-03 10:35:17 AM
I'm hoping we have a clearer picture at the end of all this. Then finding someone who says they totally support Snowden will be like finding a 70 year-old who admits they voted against JFK.

No it won't because some people don't want the government storing large amounts of data about them whether or not it includes actual voice recordings. He has the support of the libertarian right as well as the libertarian left. He has the support of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which is definitely a heavy hitter when it comes to online freedom and privacy. You're just painting a picture of your fantasy because you support an authoritarian government. You also don't have any supporting documentation to prove your claim so you are a hypocrite.
 
2013-07-03 10:47:33 AM
Since Messiah Obama is 100% okay with what the NSA has been doing, why are people complaining? Therefore, this MUST BE A GOOD THING, since Messiah Obama is behind it!

So, how is that whole "Change" thing working out? Is it everything you "Hope"d for?
 
2013-07-03 10:52:39 AM

numbquil: I'm hoping we have a clearer picture at the end of all this. Then finding someone who says they totally support Snowden will be like finding a 70 year-old who admits they voted against JFK.

No it won't because some people don't want the government storing large amounts of data about them whether or not it includes actual voice recordings. He has the support of the libertarian right as well as the libertarian left. He has the support of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which is definitely a heavy hitter when it comes to online freedom and privacy. You're just painting a picture of your fantasy because you support an authoritarian government. You also don't have any supporting documentation to prove your claim so you are a hypocrite.


Next thing you know, it'll turn out the government even has our social security numbers and driver's licens information.
 
2013-07-03 10:55:15 AM

Silly_Sot: Since Messiah Obama is 100% okay with what the NSA has been doing, why are people complaining? Therefore, this MUST BE A GOOD THING, since Messiah Obama is behind it!

So, how is that whole "Change" thing working out? Is it everything you "Hope"d for?


My, what an apt handle you have.
 
2013-07-03 10:59:01 AM

vygramul: numbquil: I'm hoping we have a clearer picture at the end of all this. Then finding someone who says they totally support Snowden will be like finding a 70 year-old who admits they voted against JFK.

No it won't because some people don't want the government storing large amounts of data about them whether or not it includes actual voice recordings. He has the support of the libertarian right as well as the libertarian left. He has the support of the Electronic Frontier Foundation which is definitely a heavy hitter when it comes to online freedom and privacy. You're just painting a picture of your fantasy because you support an authoritarian government. You also don't have any supporting documentation to prove your claim so you are a hypocrite.

Next thing you know, it'll turn out the government even has our social security numbers and driver's licens information.


Yeah that would be real insane considering that the government issues those things, smart ass. It takes a special kind of stupid to not understand that those pieces of information are different from tracking your actions and communications.
 
2013-07-03 11:11:30 AM

numbquil: Yeah that would be real insane considering that the government issues those things, smart ass. It takes a special kind of stupid to not understand that those pieces of information are different from tracking your actions and communications.


Ture. If only the government was tracking our actions and communications. We'd be in complete agreement.
 
2013-07-03 11:11:42 AM
And here I was, worried that no one was reading my gay erotic Breaking Bad fan fiction blog.  Thank you for caring, NSA.
 
2013-07-03 11:23:11 AM

Peki: It's amazing what you find you can live without when you have to.


That is legitimately amazing. How do you deal with the social pressure? Don't you take shiat about that several times a day? I have always wanted to ask a non-cellphone person about how they deal with it, but felt I was just being part of the problem by doing so.
 
Bf+
2013-07-03 11:40:39 AM
osten.net
 
2013-07-03 11:54:22 AM

vygramul: numbquil: Yeah that would be real insane considering that the government issues those things, smart ass. It takes a special kind of stupid to not understand that those pieces of information are different from tracking your actions and communications.

Ture. If only the government was tracking our actions and communications. We'd be in complete agreement.


You have no idea whether or not they are tracking our actions and communications. They are most definitely monitoring the information that is posted publicly on social media sites. Why would they not monitor the information that is not public as well? It is 100% legal and they have the ability to do it. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that they are. We know that they use an algorithm to sift through all the public data and search for certain words and combinations of words. This knowledge has been made available to us via FOIA requests by the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Is it not possible that they are also collecting non-public information based on provisions of the USA PATRIOT Act that make it legal to do so, and then sifting through it using the same algorithm and dumping the garbage? I say we meet in Fredericksburg and settle this issue man to man.
 
2013-07-03 11:57:06 AM

numbquil: I say we meet in Fredericksburg and settle this issue man to man.


I call dibs on the fence.
 
2013-07-03 02:16:38 PM

Brian_of_Nazareth: cannotsuggestaname: There is a reason they have 5 ZB in SLC and another 2.5 in San Antonio. They didn't just put that crazy amount of storage capability out there because ZOMG SO COOL!

They did it because of intercepts.

Understood, but there are qualifiers missing.  Before you start claiming they can capture everything twice, you need to think about how long to store shiat so it can be at least lightly scanned.  Turns out, the data just keeps coming in.  So, maybe not everything.  Also, it's rather remarkable how much metadata gets generated on really big transactional databases.  Ask our friends at Google, it's  rather remarkable the hoops you need to jump through when you're dealing with data on these scales.

It's not going to be easy to have a rational discussion about whether or not the NSA is too intrusive if we don't really know how intrusive they are.  This article is not a good starting point.

Cheers.

//Never built anything transactional larger than 1 TB
//Bloody datawarehouses at 100TB are a major pain


I realize all of that. I work with big data, a lot. While we aren't quite at the Google level we are pretty close.
 
2013-07-03 03:02:22 PM

CAT-LIKE TYPING DETECTED: GameSprocket: To be useful, the data would have to be at least on magnetic disk. At around $10/GB, each zettabyte would cost almost $11 trillion (1,099,511,627,776 GB. Check my Math. I am very tired).


Apparently so..otherwise, are you honestly trying to tell me that the 500GB HDD in my $400 laptop cost $5000..?

Looking at the Western Digital Scorpio Blue 500GB HDD on walmart. com ($53.86), I come up with a cost/GB right around $0.10

Yer off by two orders of magnitude in your calculations..at least..


Told you I was tired. The $10/GB came from an article about the cost of storage in a data center and probably rolls in the cost of backup and maintenance.
 
2013-07-03 03:12:42 PM

cannotsuggestaname: There is a reason they have 5 ZB in SLC and another 2.5 in San Antonio. They didn't just put that crazy amount of storage capability out there because ZOMG SO COOL!

They did it because of intercepts.


Let's keep in mind that 95% of the world's population lives outside of our borders, and is a legal target of un-warranted and unlimited NSA surveillance.
 
2013-07-03 04:50:14 PM

mccallcl: Peki: It's amazing what you find you can live without when you have to.

That is legitimately amazing. How do you deal with the social pressure? Don't you take shiat about that several times a day? I have always wanted to ask a non-cellphone person about how they deal with it, but felt I was just being part of the problem by doing so.


Take shiat everyday? No, I'd stab someone in the neck after about the 50th time. Helps that I'm a little weird to begin with. Basically I tell them that I am not at anyone's beck and call. E-mail me, and I will get back to you when convenient to me. I'm not a dog; I don't get a leash. I also have a lot of time that I'm not working, and because a lot of my actual work is volunteer, people think, "Well, Peki doesn't have a job, so she'll be available for anything I ask her." Not having a cellphone is a convenient way to disabuse people of that notion.
 
2013-07-03 08:50:48 PM

Peki: mccallcl: Peki: It's amazing what you find you can live without when you have to.

That is legitimately amazing. How do you deal with the social pressure? Don't you take shiat about that several times a day? I have always wanted to ask a non-cellphone person about how they deal with it, but felt I was just being part of the problem by doing so.

Take shiat everyday? No, I'd stab someone in the neck after about the 50th time. Helps that I'm a little weird to begin with. Basically I tell them that I am not at anyone's beck and call. E-mail me, and I will get back to you when convenient to me. I'm not a dog; I don't get a leash. I also have a lot of time that I'm not working, and because a lot of my actual work is volunteer, people think, "Well, Peki doesn't have a job, so she'll be available for anything I ask her." Not having a cellphone is a convenient way to disabuse people of that notion.


I just refuse to give out the number. If work wants to reach my by cellphone, they'll have to give me one.
 
2013-07-03 08:57:22 PM

vygramul: I just refuse to give out the number. If work wants to reach my by cellphone, they'll have to give me one.


I tried that, but the fiancé sabotaged the plan.

/which is why I originally went from pre-paid TracPhone to unlimited Metro. Farker has a lot of friends, and they all started calling me. :/
 
2013-07-03 10:02:27 PM

Peki: TDBoedy: You do realize that just because you give information (contractually) to a third party does not mean that you give up all rights to privacy?  I conduct business contractually with my bank.  They are a third party.  I am not spraying my information into the "ethersphere" simply by doing it electronically instead of in-person with a bank employee.

Yes, I do. There's a legal phrase called expectation of privacy. It's why the FBI called when I turned my ex-husband in regarding stuff on his computer. If the computer had been password protected, then I would have no right to turn the evidence over to the cops. There wasn't, so there was no "expectation of privacy."

However, I'm old school. I was raised that no matter what you send out there, someone can grab it and use it against you, privacy be damned. As I've gotten older, that just seems to hold more and more true. Also, expectation of privacy is a small consolation when you're being held indefinitely in GITMO and never get a trial (and if you think that people aren't being held indefinitely on US soil without trial, you don't know much about the immigration situation).

/same as how yes, I have an expectation that a bank won't send people to trash all my stuff, but it happens anyway. You might win the court battle, but your shiat is still gone and you're gonna go through a lot in legal fees before you get anything remotely approaching "justice"


oh good we're comparing the government to thugs now.  At least we're on the same page.  And GITMO has nothing to do with this.  Ohh look a red herring!  And if it (the computer) had been pw protected and you knew the pw yes you could have turned it in and also your testimony could be used to get a warrant to break the pw.  So it seems to me that the legs you're standing on are a bit flimsy.
 
2013-07-03 11:30:49 PM

Evil High Priest: Silverstaff: MisterRonbo: There are quotes from authorities that strongly indicate this happened with the Boston bombers.

Citation Needed.

Please.  I'm kinda curious.  What Government officials say that the US went back to pre-existing archives of tapped calls to investigate the Tsarnaev Brothers?  I'd not heard anything about this, and I'm kinda wondering what official would say this if it was a classified program.

Here ya go:

Over the past couple days, cable news tabloid shows such as CNN's Out Front with Erin Burnett have been excitingly focused on the possible involvement in the Boston Marathon attack of Katherine Russell, the 24-year-old American widow of the deceased suspect, Tamerlan Tsarnaev. As part of their relentless stream of leaks
On Wednesday night,
BURNETT: Tim, is there any way, obviously, there is a voice mail they can try to get the phone companies to give that up at this point. It's not a voice mail. It's just a conversation. There's no way they actually can find out what happened, right, unless she tells them?

CLEMENTE: "No, there is a way. We certainly have ways in national security investigations to find out exactly what was said in that conversation. It's not necessarily something that the FBI is going to want to present in court, but it may help lead the investigation and/or lead to questioning of her. We certainly can find that out.

BURNETT: "So they can actually get that? People are saying, look, that is incredible.

CLEMENTE: "No, welcome to America. All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not."
"All of that stuff" - meaning every telephone conversation Americans have with one another on US soil, with or without a search warrant - "is being captured as we speak".


So, a FORMER FBI agent says this, on CNN, speaking as a private citizen acting as a talking media head.  Just why is he former?

Looking on IMDB and other sites, it looks like he left the Bureau to be a TV writer, actor and consultant, specializing in espionage and law enforcement series.  The guy makes a living writing spy fantasies, and you're buying something he vaguely implied once to say there is a vast "big brother" system out there?

I'm not buying it.  Tim Clemente could cook up any bullshiat he wanted and feed it to people just to make ratings.  He makes his living telling people fantasy tales about spies and agents, based on the fact that at one point he was an agent himself.  Ian Fleming was a former Intelligence Officer, but that doesn't make James Bond a real agent.

I said where a government official said that, not a former agent vaguely implying so in his role as a media commentator.  Funny thing is, that if it could do this, the PRISM briefing slides that were leaked should mention it, but it only mentions capturing metadata in bulk.  If Snowden had proof of some monolithic "big brother" project, why didn't he reveal that, instead of PRISM, which certainly appears to be compliant with Fourth Amendment rules and Intelligence Oversight directives.

I honestly believe the idea that the NSA is recording every phone call, every bit of internet traffic, is a tinfoil hat paranoid conspiracy.
 
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