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(P2P Foundation)   75 people own 99% of all Bitcoins   (blog.p2pfoundation.net) divider line 115
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4737 clicks; posted to Business » on 02 Jul 2013 at 3:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-02 07:54:40 PM

BKITU: PowerSlacker: Extreme parity we Bitcoin also.

/ $1 US = $1.0004 Bitcoin

And sponsored for the awesome reference.


Thanks!  Always happy to call back your classic there.
 
2013-07-02 07:54:49 PM
I wish I had gotten in on bitcoin when it was a geek hobby, and easy to mine.
 
2013-07-02 07:55:27 PM

Nemo's Brother: Rapmaster2000: Bitcoin had way too many people invested in it for spite; to spite the banks and the Fed and the mainstream investing community and probably something else.

Spite is emotion.  Don't invest on emotion.

Bitcoin is good for concealing drug transactions.  Paying a dealer in straight cash is another way.

I would imagine more dealers take cash than BitCoin.


Not if you're buying Molly from some guy in Germany.
 
2013-07-02 08:04:26 PM
Corruption...how does that work???
 
2013-07-02 08:07:00 PM
I use Cryptocredits.
 
2013-07-02 08:48:58 PM

stewbert: Nemo's Brother: Rapmaster2000: Bitcoin had way too many people invested in it for spite; to spite the banks and the Fed and the mainstream investing community and probably something else.

Spite is emotion.  Don't invest on emotion.

Bitcoin is good for concealing drug transactions.  Paying a dealer in straight cash is another way.

I would imagine more dealers take cash than BitCoin.

Yeah, I seriously can't see BitCoin working for drugs, unless you order drugs via internet. I don't consider that a worthy idea, so it's cash for my monthly purchase.


If you use an untraceable, unrecoverable currency (read: no chargebacks or dispute resolution) to buy illegal goods on the Internet, you deserve what you get.
 
2013-07-02 09:12:59 PM

TheRealist: Flawed article. Bullshiat


FTA : "It is remarkable that 97% of all owners had fewer than 10 transactions each, while 75 owners use the network very often and are affiliated with at least 5,000 transactions."

That can't be right. So all those people using it for underground sales have less than 10 transactions? I also call bull.
 
2013-07-02 09:27:24 PM

oren0: If you use an untraceable, unrecoverable currency (read: no chargebacks or dispute resolution) to buy illegal goods on the Internet, you deserve what you get.


From what I've seen prowling around Tor-only sites that deal in illegal goods, there's generally some type of vetting system for sellers. Obviously you can't take the guy you bought PCP from to court if he doesn't deliver, but at least he shouldn't be able to scam too many people.
 
2013-07-02 09:36:48 PM
So the feds bust one of the hoarders and then dump all their bitcoins at once and then bit coins are gone forever?  Why hasn't this happened yet?
 
2013-07-02 09:47:12 PM

El Pachuco: The shadow economy is a lot bigger than I ever imagined


It's at least 10% of the US economy, if my experience is a guide. That doesn't count the dozens of wealth exchanges your average group of friends transacts every week.

/square for the win
 
2013-07-02 10:12:53 PM

gfid: Earguy: I once read that bitcoin was a preferred currency of drug dealers.  I have no idea why that is, or how it would work to their benefit.

My drug dealer actually prefers dollars.  Maybe he's not as high as he seems


That would make sense for in-person drug deals.  Over the Internet, you can't exchange physical bills, so bitcoins tend to be preferred.

Side-note: it is at least theoretically possible to use bitcoins for in-person payments, by transferring bitcoins from an e-wallet on the buyer's smartphone to an e-wallet on the seller's smartphone.  My understanding is that it can be accomplished either using NFC, or by having the phones scan QR codes on each other's displays.  However, the software is only available for Android and possibly for jailbroken iPhones, and I wouldn't expect any vendors to have the software on their phones unless they're legitimately afraid that the government might seize their bank assets (e.g. black market dealers, Glen Beck fans, businesses in certain Eurozone countries).
 
2013-07-02 10:27:54 PM

Bitcoin ATM in Cyprus allows citizens to overcome currency restrictions and move their money outside of the country:

assets2.motherboard.tvanfrind: gfid: Earguy: I once read that bitcoin was a preferred currency of drug dealers.  I have no idea why that is, or how it would work to their benefit. My drug dealer actually prefers dollars.  Maybe he's not as high as he seems That would make sense for in-person drug deals.  Over the Internet, you can't exchange physical bills, so bitcoins tend to be preferred. Side-note: it is at least theoretically possible to use bitcoins for in-person payments, by transferring bitcoins from an e-wallet on the buyer's smartphone to an e-wallet on the seller's smartphone.  My understanding is that it can be accomplished either using NFC, or by having the phones scan QR codes on each other's displays.  However, the software is only available for Android and possibly for jailbroken iPhones, and I wouldn't expect any vendors to have the software on their phones unless they're legitimately afraid that the government might seize their bank assets (e.g. black market dealers, Glen Beck fans, businesses in certain Eurozone countries).

 
2013-07-02 11:04:07 PM

HempHead: Bitcoin ATM in Cyprus allows citizens to overcome currency restrictions and move their money outside of the country:


anarchypress.files.wordpress.com
images.wikia.com
 
2013-07-02 11:35:39 PM

meat0918: I've still got my Magic: The Gathering Cards. Some Revised Ed., mostly 4th Ed.


You laugh, but I sold a MTG collection last year for $40,000.

/granted, it went all the way back to beta with multiple "power 9" sets
 
2013-07-02 11:50:48 PM

hardinparamedic: HempHead: Bitcoin ATM in Cyprus allows citizens to overcome currency restrictions and move their money outside of the country:

[anarchypress.files.wordpress.com image 602x480]
[images.wikia.com image 640x360]


Funny that second pic came about because of the instability of 'real' markets.
 
2013-07-03 12:14:32 AM

lewismarktwo: hardinparamedic: HempHead: Bitcoin ATM in Cyprus allows citizens to overcome currency restrictions and move their money outside of the country:

[anarchypress.files.wordpress.com image 602x480]
[images.wikia.com image 640x360]

Funny that second pic came about because of the instability of 'real' markets.


Frankly, the fact that Bitcoin compares favorably to the Euro in Cypress says less about the viability of Bitcoin than it does about how horribly mismanaged the Eurozone is.
 
2013-07-03 12:31:54 AM

anfrind: lewismarktwo: hardinparamedic: HempHead: Bitcoin ATM in Cyprus allows citizens to overcome currency restrictions and move their money outside of the country:

[anarchypress.files.wordpress.com image 602x480]
[images.wikia.com image 640x360]

Funny that second pic came about because of the instability of 'real' markets.

Frankly, the fact that Bitcoin compares favorably to the Euro in Cypress says less about the viability of Bitcoin than it does about how horribly mismanaged the Eurozone is.




Cypress found out they are secondary citizens in the eyes of the Germans and French.
 
2013-07-03 12:40:35 AM
rare commodities can be hoarded, let alone influenced by a small number of people?


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-03 01:32:16 AM
wow, so that imaginary currency is just like all the other imaginary currencies
 
2013-07-03 01:35:42 AM
I wonder what % of AMD's video card sales in the last year could be attributed to people buying their video cards with the intention, or even just the option to, run bitcoin mining
 
2013-07-03 01:41:03 AM

lewismarktwo: Funny that second pic came about because of the instability of 'real' markets.


Remind me how much bitcoins are used in the real markets again? Or how well they translate into consumer goods?

The 200k gold I have on my main WOW character is worth more.
 
2013-07-03 01:47:24 AM

redly1: I wonder what % of AMD's video card sales in the last year could be attributed to people buying their video cards with the intention, or even just the option to, run bitcoin mining


I bought a pair of nvidia 670s that after I overclocked now double as a block heater in my computer room. I feel that this is probably better economics than getting into bitmining.
 
2013-07-03 02:38:11 AM

stewbert: Nemo's Brother: Rapmaster2000: Bitcoin had way too many people invested in it for spite; to spite the banks and the Fed and the mainstream investing community and probably something else.

Spite is emotion.  Don't invest on emotion.

Bitcoin is good for concealing drug transactions.  Paying a dealer in straight cash is another way.

I would imagine more dealers take cash than BitCoin.

Yeah, I seriously can't see BitCoin working for drugs, unless you order drugs via internet. I don't consider that a worthy idea, so it's cash for my monthly purchase.


Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.
 
2013-07-03 02:51:48 AM
*scroll scroll scroll*

Seriously?

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-07-03 02:52:55 AM

Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.


Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.
 
2013-07-03 04:34:10 AM
Dunning-Kruggerands
 
2013-07-03 05:09:34 AM

redly1: I wonder what % of AMD's video card sales in the last year could be attributed to people buying their video cards with the intention, or even just the option to, run bitcoin mining


Bitcoin mining? I dunno.
Password cracking? Lots!
 
2013-07-03 05:41:22 AM
Sounds like the perfect libertarian currency, the entire economy held in as few a hands as possible, just as long as you don't get to periodically vote for who it is that has all the power then that is exactly as nature intended.
 
2013-07-03 05:42:55 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Eddie Adams from Torrance: So, pretty much just like US dollars?

I was wondering what the percentage worked out to.


The majority of wealth isn't in liquid form though? If the goal is for bitcoin or something similar to be a liquid currency that doesn't need to be converted its a major issue. Not only because they posses the ability to crash the system at will, but also because of the limited amount avalible for actual users. The bitcoin system is designed to benefit early adoptors. Much like any other ponzi scheme the early adpotors often times make money and invite others to join in. The only thing that seems to drive bitcoin value is demand. It seems like a product not a currency.

The solutions in the article to the bitcoin problem are also the fundamental flaw in bitcoin. Bitcoin lacks mass adoption and basic protection you receive from a government backed currency. The medium isn't important as a bitcoin and currency note are equally worthless its the force behind it which makes it strong and valuable. If something or an organization were to threaten the bitcoin what recourse do its users really have? Its too bad good ideas don't always work in the 'real' world.
 
2013-07-03 06:20:34 AM

redly1: wow, so that imaginary currency is just like all the other imaginary currencies


Money itself has never been anything but an abstract concept. There is no such thing as "real" money.
 
2013-07-03 07:10:49 AM
It's amazing that just a few headlines down from a story claiming the NSA records every telephone conversation in the US (at least?) for purposes of spying, there is a story where people claim that these 'bitcoins' are somehow opaque and untraceable by the same organization.

Is this a fair definition of cognitive dissonance?
 
2013-07-03 07:16:09 AM

Smeggy Smurf: ManateeGag: I have a large sum of fake money in a few online games.  it's just as valuable in the real world as this bitcoin bullshiat.

I have a couple thousands Lindens with more contracts pending.


Not really, BitCoin might not have an intrinsic value, but it is accepted as tender in various online markets.  I guess the same could be said for the fake money in your online games, but I would think that BitCoin usage is more wide spread. I know someone who bought who bought $100 worth for a lark a couple years ago, lucky guy.....
 
2013-07-03 07:55:54 AM

Miss Nova: Dunning-Kruggerands


Sounds like a winner to me
 
2013-07-03 08:15:47 AM

KWess: It's amazing that just a few headlines down from a story claiming the NSA records every telephone conversation in the US (at least?) for purposes of spying, there is a story where people claim that these 'bitcoins' are somehow opaque and untraceable by the same organization.

Is this a fair definition of cognitive dissonance?


Well, to be fair, my phone calls don't have built in encryption and aren't based on the ability to remain anonymous.
 
2013-07-03 09:49:11 AM
You can actually say this about a whole host of things: gold, diamonds, hell, even currency are hoarded by powerful groups.

At any point, these organizations or governments can obliterate the value of metals, gems or money in an instant.
 
2013-07-03 10:49:03 AM

hardinparamedic: lewismarktwo: Funny that second pic came about because of the instability of 'real' markets.

Remind me how much bitcoins are used in the real markets again? Or how well they translate into consumer goods?

The 200k gold I have on my main WOW character is worth more.


How much is that worth in US$... seriously... I am curious
 
2013-07-03 10:54:03 AM

DON.MAC: So the feds bust one of the hoarders and then dump all their bitcoins at once and then bit coins are gone forever?  Why hasn't this happened yet?


Sometimes its best to let a fire burn itself out.t
 
2013-07-03 10:54:18 AM

El Pachuco: As someone who has spent the past eleven years working for himself, after fifteen years of standard by-the-book W-2 regular jobs, it still surprises me how much I am able to make "outside the system" and how little of it would actually be known to the IRS unless I report it.  And I'm in a legit profession, nothing illegal.

I've also met quite a few others who do quite well off the books - gardeners, handymen, tattoo artists, real estate investors - without being involved in criminal stuff.  The shadow economy is a lot bigger than I ever imagined, even here in the well-regulated and reported US.


Having an LLC I'm in command of would seem pretty useful for shadey stuff both legal and illegal.

Phil McKraken: Crotchrocket Slim:  You only have to prove where you got your real money from if the authorities have other evidence to suspect you're making money in illegal enterprises. A cop can't just willy-nilly shake you up for cash if he has no reason to suspect something is askew- that's like one of the very bases our laws in the US are built upon.

Guilty until proven innocent. How UnAmerican.


Is reading comprehension something insufferable hipsters think is for squares now?
 
2013-07-03 11:06:56 AM

libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.


Buyer, not seller. Someone has to receive a package, and to get a PO Box you need to provide two valid forms of ID.
 
2013-07-03 11:07:59 AM

Miss Nova: Dunning-Kruggerands


Autism Kroners.
 
2013-07-03 11:47:18 AM

Mad_Radhu: libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.

Buyer, not seller. Someone has to receive a package, and to get a PO Box you need to provide two valid forms of ID.


If only ID was easy to forge...

Did you know many state government services are required to give illegal immigrants a new SS# any time they need one?
 
2013-07-03 11:54:35 AM

Mad_Radhu: libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.

Buyer, not seller. Someone has to receive a package, and to get a PO Box you need to provide two valid forms of ID.


Use your neighbors address.
 
2013-07-03 12:25:07 PM

Rapmaster2000: Bitcoin had way too many people invested in it for spite; to spite the banks and the Fed and the mainstream investing community and probably something else.


I'm invested in it to spite its supporters. Ripping off true-believer neckbeards is fun!
 
2013-07-03 12:39:01 PM

libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.


Not sure if serious/trolling, but I assume you don't buy drugs that often seeing how the buyer is usually the one who keeps the drugs at the end of the transaction.  The Seller can do what you suggest, but the drugs are being delivered to the address of the buyer.  If the authorities are involved, then they will know exactly where to go to bust you for possession.  It is much riskier for the buyer than the seller when it comes to shipping "product"

The idea is to have them shipped to a different house and then intercept it. For examples: neighbors house who is out of town, one that is for sale and the owners are not there, houses that are being constructed.  Ideally, some place that you can get to and "act" like the owner or be able to pick it up if it is dropped off, without it going to the actual owner or your own address.
 
2013-07-03 12:45:09 PM

Hyjamon: libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.

Not sure if serious/trolling, but I assume you don't buy drugs that often seeing how the buyer is usually the one who keeps the drugs at the end of the transaction.  The Seller can do what you suggest, but the drugs are being delivered to the address of the buyer.  If the authorities are involved, then they will know exactly where to go to bust you for possession.  It is much riskier for the buyer than the seller when it comes to shipping "product"

The idea is to have them shipped to a different house and then intercept it. For examples: neighbors house who is out of town, one that is for sale and the owners are not there, houses that are being constructed.  Ideally, some place that you can get to and "act" like the owner or be able to pick it up if it is dropped off, without it going to the actual owner or your own address.


Have you ever heard news stories about pot being delivered to houses that weren't expecting it?

This is how it is done, they have it sent to an address where they know no one will be around during the day, then take the package.
 
2013-07-03 12:46:03 PM

Hyjamon: libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.

Not sure if serious/trolling, but I assume you don't buy drugs that often seeing how the buyer is usually the one who keeps the drugs at the end of the transaction.  The Seller can do what you suggest, but the drugs are being delivered to the address of the buyer.  If the authorities are involved, then they will know exactly where to go to bust you for possession.  It is much riskier for the buyer than the seller when it comes to shipping "product"

The idea is to have them shipped to a different house and then intercept it. For examples: neighbors house who is out of town, one that is for sale and the owners are not there, houses that are being constructed.  Ideally, some place that you can get to and "act" like the owner or be able to pick it up if it is dropped off, without it going to the actual owner or your own address.


friend of mine use to ship me product when I moved far away and lost my own connection.  it worked well the first few times.  I eventually found a connect and moved a few more times in the same city and a few years later he sent me some more for a birthday.   But this time the box he shipped (same courier as before) showed up with no product inside.  still had all the newspaper and filling, but empty otherwise.  Nothing ever happened other than I received an empty cardboard box.  needless to say it was the last time we tried it.
 
2013-07-03 01:39:35 PM

FlashHarry: are they the same 75 people who funded 80 percent of the romney campaign?


Nah. Adelson makes his money off facilitating other people's stupid gambles.
 
2013-07-03 01:41:31 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: El Pachuco: As someone who has spent the past eleven years working for himself, after fifteen years of standard by-the-book W-2 regular jobs, it still surprises me how much I am able to make "outside the system" and how little of it would actually be known to the IRS unless I report it.  And I'm in a legit profession, nothing illegal.

I've also met quite a few others who do quite well off the books - gardeners, handymen, tattoo artists, real estate investors - without being involved in criminal stuff.  The shadow economy is a lot bigger than I ever imagined, even here in the well-regulated and reported US.

Having an LLC I'm in command of would seem pretty useful for shadey stuff both legal and illegal.

Phil McKraken: Crotchrocket Slim:  You only have to prove where you got your real money from if the authorities have other evidence to suspect you're making money in illegal enterprises. A cop can't just willy-nilly shake you up for cash if he has no reason to suspect something is askew- that's like one of the very bases our laws in the US are built upon.

Guilty until proven innocent. How UnAmerican.

Is reading comprehension something insufferable hipsters think is for squares now?


Sorry. The legalization fever in Colorado got to Texas a little early.
 
2013-07-03 02:16:50 PM

lewismarktwo: Mad_Radhu: libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.

Buyer, not seller. Someone has to receive a package, and to get a PO Box you need to provide two valid forms of ID.

If only ID was easy to forge...

Did you know many state government services are required to give illegal immigrants a new SS# any time they need one?


State governments don't issue ss#'s and its really hard to get a new one.

Did you eat lead paint as a child or were you born this way?
 
2013-07-03 02:25:34 PM

zeroman987: lewismarktwo: Mad_Radhu: libranoelrose: Mad_Radhu: Seems like shipping is going to be the weak link in buying drugs online. It is hard to keep that anonymous for the buyer.

Why would it be hard?

Wear a hood and dark glasses when you drop off your package at a public mail box with postage already attached.

Buyer, not seller. Someone has to receive a package, and to get a PO Box you need to provide two valid forms of ID.

If only ID was easy to forge...

Did you know many state government services are required to give illegal immigrants a new SS# any time they need one?

State governments don't issue ss#'s and its really hard to get a new one.

Did you eat lead paint as a child or were you born this way?


You don't even know what you don't know, bro.
 
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