If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   Remember how the sequester was supposed to turn America into Mad Max meets Lord of the Flies? Seems we can live without a little spending   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 269
    More: Obvious, Concord Coalition  
•       •       •

1723 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jul 2013 at 10:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



269 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-07-02 11:37:11 AM
Furloughs for DOD civilian employees start next week. Political fallout should follow closely.
 
2013-07-02 11:38:08 AM

BMFPitt: PanicMan: palelizard: I don't know about other Federal programs, but the Navy just started the furlough this period.  They pushed the cuts to the money they'd be spending at the end of the year, so the wife's getting a 20% pay cut starting for work done this week. It's not the end of the world, but it still stinks.

Yep, mine starts next week.

/Army

Mine got "suspended" indefinitely because I work for an agency that was able to slightly inconvenience Congress during their vacations.


Yeah, got to love that.

"Sir! The little people are complaining that these cuts are deeply affecting their lives!"
"Who cares?  Let them eat cake!"
"Also, it appears that your flight is going to be delayed by a couple hours due to a lack of air traffic controllers."
"The hell you say!?  Emergency session! Get them back to work!"
 
2013-07-02 11:39:04 AM

cman: The sequester was pushed as something that would slide us back into a recession. That was the big talking point. It didnt happen.


While it's true it didn't slide us into a recession, perhaps that has something to do with the sequester hasn't started yet.  It was postponed.  (At least for the Navy.  Don't know if it was postponed for everything equally).

My wife is getting the one day off a week starting this month, which according to the calculator they provided will be a 24% pay cut.  (Something to do with taxes, etc, for why it's more than a 20% cut.)
 
2013-07-02 11:40:06 AM

SwordBuddha: Furloughs for DOD civilian employees start next week. Political fallout should follow closely.


It is going to get real ugly when all of those company in Republican districts that have government contracts have to lay people off because those contracts are being suspended until further notice.
 
2013-07-02 11:43:31 AM

ongbok: SwordBuddha: Furloughs for DOD civilian employees start next week. Political fallout should follow closely.

It is going to get real ugly when all of those company in Republican districts that have government contracts have to lay people off because those contracts are being suspended until further notice.


If something like that were to happen, they would just cancel those cuts.
 
2013-07-02 11:44:08 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Got to pay our bills sometime.


I think we should pay our bills after some huge infrastructure improvements around this gigantic farking country of ours reduce the unemployment so that we have more revenue attack that debt.  Another option is to keep coddling the quivering job creators, whoever they are.
 
2013-07-02 11:45:35 AM

BMFPitt: Mine got "suspended" indefinitely because I work for an agency that was able to slightly inconvenience Congress during their vacations.

But the contractors I work with have been cut to the bone, with no end in sight.


Our government people have been cut, but the contractors are humming along. This is for a military-medical research project, something Congress is very keen on NOT cutting (the optics alone would be terrible).

It works out, as the contractors are the ones doing the day-to-day work, but it means that our program is essentially unmonitored by some facet of government for a day at a time (I mean, we've planned it so that everything is covered, but sometimes rather thinly). Is that really the smart way to go?

Would it not have been easier to cut $85B from programs and projects the Pentagon doesn't want?
 
2013-07-02 11:45:50 AM

thurstonxhowell: ongbok: SwordBuddha: Furloughs for DOD civilian employees start next week. Political fallout should follow closely.

It is going to get real ugly when all of those company in Republican districts that have government contracts have to lay people off because those contracts are being suspended until further notice.

If something like that were to happen, they would just cancel those cuts.


Would they cancel them if they are nonessential contracts?
 
2013-07-02 11:46:16 AM

DON.MAC: So the best congress is an ineffective congress?


"Best congress" suggests that there's an alternative.
 
2013-07-02 11:46:54 AM

Dr Dreidel: Would it not have been easier to cut $85B from programs and projects the Pentagon doesn't want?


But that would leave us vulnerable to the Kaiser's High Seas fleet!
 
2013-07-02 11:47:22 AM

Soup4Bonnie: Debeo Summa Credo: Got to pay our bills sometime.

I think we should pay our bills after some huge infrastructure improvements around this gigantic farking country of ours reduce the unemployment so that we have more revenue attack that debt.  Another option is to keep coddling the quivering job creators, whoever they are.


No, damaging economic growth will totally help "pay the bills". That's why when money's tight I take fewer hours at work.

You know, to save gas.
 
2013-07-02 11:48:34 AM

ongbok: thurstonxhowell: ongbok: SwordBuddha: Furloughs for DOD civilian employees start next week. Political fallout should follow closely.

It is going to get real ugly when all of those company in Republican districts that have government contracts have to lay people off because those contracts are being suspended until further notice.

If something like that were to happen, they would just cancel those cuts.

Would they cancel them if they are nonessential contracts?


Does it help them get re-elected?

The answer to both of our questions is the same.
 
2013-07-02 11:49:30 AM

Arkanaut: DON.MAC: So the best congress is an ineffective congress?

"Best congress" suggests that there's an alternative.


Well, there are quite a number of alternatives but they all involve not letting fascistic right-wingers who never evolved a forebrain run things.
 
2013-07-02 11:52:12 AM
US Attorney's Office in a nearby jurisdiction laid off a bunch of people immediately post-sequestration, then hired them back as "contract workers" for a while (reduced pay, no benefits), but then were just told that they had to cut 50-70% of their total staff due to sequestration. That means that even more crimes are not going to be prosecuted and less support from feds for state law enforcement, which includes technical assistance for computer crimes and major crimes and taking over referrals for RICO cases for gang murders and violence. Just had a great case rejected for a referral because of this. Grants are drying up for state/local agencies as well. Some of the local agencies are cutting staff up to 70-80% due to lack of funding, which in large part came from federal rural law enforcement grants and federal timber funds in the western states. There's many places which won't even charges thefts less than $1000 because they don't have the resources, and I've heard, but not confirmed, that there is one that won't charge felony theft (>$1000) unless the person would go to prison, which means the defendant had an extensive prior record, because the agencies have to prioritize and can't afford it due to staff cuts.

In other words, just in law enforcement the cuts have hit hard and we haven't really seen the full effect yet because A. agencies have found short term ways around it, which are starting to run out, B. The grants and other funds that were hit by sequestration will really start drying up this year and the next when pre-sequestration allocated funds dry up, and C. the increase in crime that comes from criminals knowing they aren't going to prosecute you hasn't been seen in the stats... yet. That will be coming in the next year or two when the stats are compiled. Even then the stats may or may not reflect the increase because while it will look like there are less crimes being prosecuted, that won't necessarily reflect the number prosecuted just because they didn't have someone to do it. Depending on who's stats you look at they don't necessary put in the reason for a nolle prosequi.

That being said, I don't think this will be apocolyptic, but it will be shocking when people start calling the police who will take a report and say yeah we don't enforce those crimes any more because we don't have enough people or money. It's going to take some heinous crimes being committed with little/no response because of a lack of resources, which is happening (see below), before people wake up and realize they actually do need some police around. This of course varies by jurisdiction, particularly amongst individual counties/localities depending on how well their economy is doing and how well they planned ahead with rainy day funds and the like but the overall trend is a bit alarming.

For a great example of how reactionary thinking in a community affects law enforcement (Documenting cuts in Josephine County, Oregon, one of the best examples of a jurisdiction experiencing this trend. It's an outlier to be sure, but there are similar cuts happening all over the northwest.)

For a follow-up example of how these types of cuts are already starting to affect those residents (Story of girl who called 911 in Josephine County, Oregon who was told to ask her assaulter to leave because there were no deputies to respond.)

/Not a resident of Josephine County, Oregon. It's just the best example out there of the crisis going on.
//Cue the anti-law enforcement hate.
 
2013-07-02 11:55:40 AM
So I skimmed trough the story and here's my takeaway:


"The sequester has been bad so far, but not as bad as predicted mostly because some of the cuts were undone, and it's too soon to tell just how bad it will ultimately be."


That about sum it up?
=Smidge=
 
2013-07-02 11:58:43 AM

labman: My wife is getting the one day off a week starting this month, which according to the calculator they provided will be a 24% pay cut.  (Something to do with taxes, etc, for why it's more than a 20% cut.)


The costs for healthcare and other flat rate removals from the paycheck are staying the same.  So if she was making $1000 a week and spending $100 on health insurance (take home $900), she's now making $800 and spending $100 on health insurance (take home $700).  So that $200 reduction from a 20% gross salary becomes a 22.2% net salary reduction.
 
2013-07-02 11:58:56 AM

A Dark Evil Omen: Soup4Bonnie: Debeo Summa Credo: Got to pay our bills sometime.

I think we should pay our bills after some huge infrastructure improvements around this gigantic farking country of ours reduce the unemployment so that we have more revenue attack that debt.  Another option is to keep coddling the quivering job creators, whoever they are.

No, damaging economic growth will totally help "pay the bills". That's why when money's tight I take fewer hours at work.

You know, to save gas.


When you are in debt and spending more than you earn, do you borrow more to maintain your unsustainable lifestyle?

Also, what do you think happens to the funds that would have been borrowed to fund the foregone spending/tax cuts? Do the investors that would have bought the treasury securities issued to fund the spending just wipe their ass with the cash instead and set it on fire?
 
2013-07-02 11:59:22 AM
But if we slip back into recession, it's Obamacare's fault.
 
2013-07-02 12:05:17 PM

palelizard: labman: My wife is getting the one day off a week starting this month, which according to the calculator they provided will be a 24% pay cut.  (Something to do with taxes, etc, for why it's more than a 20% cut.)

The costs for healthcare and other flat rate removals from the paycheck are staying the same.  So if she was making $1000 a week and spending $100 on health insurance (take home $900), she's now making $800 and spending $100 on health insurance (take home $700).  So that $200 reduction from a 20% gross salary becomes a 22.2% net salary reduction.


She's lucky that they didn't also cut the employer contribution to her health care. If they were contributing $200 per week to health care, if they cut that by 20% she'd have to kick in another $40, reducing her take home pay to $660. Actual reduction in total comp is less than 20% if their contribution for benefits remains the same.
 
2013-07-02 12:08:51 PM

vpb: Unless you're poor and rely on community health centers or one of the other health programs cut, but I guess subby didn't include them in "we".


I'm sure the 70,000 North Carolinians who lost unemployment benefits are saying the "little bit of less spending" is working out great for them too!

As long as you don't actually LOOK (talking about the author of this article), everything is just farking peachy!
 
2013-07-02 12:13:43 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: When you are in debt and spending more than you earn, do you borrow more to maintain your unsustainable lifestyle?


Deficit spending is how every country in the world works. Our "lifestyle" is still perfectly sustainable.
 
2013-07-02 12:14:13 PM

Smidge204: So I skimmed trough the story and here's my takeaway:


"The sequester has been bad so far, but not as bad as predicted mostly because some of the cuts were undone, and it's too soon to tell just how bad it will ultimately be."


That about sum it up?
=Smidge=


That does a pretty good job of it.
=The_Gallant_Gallstone=

PS I think it could be a lot worse
=The_Gallant_Gallstone=
 
2013-07-02 12:14:44 PM

cman: Dusk-You-n-Me: cman: The sequester was pushed as something that would slide us back into a recession. That was the big talking point.

Whose talking point? The CBO said it would cut GDP growth by about 1.5%. Nothing about a recession.

Are you serious? I know that Americans have short attention spans, but Jesus. It was the biggest talking point in the media.


HuffPo is not a source for anything.

There is media out there that will telll you anything. Lots of it. Media talking points are for idiots that can't handle larger narratives.

Bring some administration quotes that do not fit the scenario at the time they were made.
 
2013-07-02 12:17:46 PM

PanicMan: Deficit spending is how every country in the world works. Our "lifestyle" is still perfectly sustainable


If deficit spending is rational, its advocates have to put forth a strong formulation for it, given that it runs counter to sensible economic management at the household level.

The prudent voter may be wrong to think that the government should function like a household (income should exceed expenses), but that mistake is forgiveable if a strong explanation to the contrary is not provided.
 
2013-07-02 12:21:45 PM

ComicBookGuy: Translation of headline: "Cuts which don't affect me are fine with me" - Retarded White Trash Subby"


Dufuk?
 
2013-07-02 12:21:46 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: A Dark Evil Omen: Soup4Bonnie: Debeo Summa Credo: Got to pay our bills sometime.

I think we should pay our bills after some huge infrastructure improvements around this gigantic farking country of ours reduce the unemployment so that we have more revenue attack that debt.  Another option is to keep coddling the quivering job creators, whoever they are.

No, damaging economic growth will totally help "pay the bills". That's why when money's tight I take fewer hours at work.

You know, to save gas.

When you are in debt and spending more than you earn, do you borrow more to maintain your unsustainable lifestyle?

Also, what do you think happens to the funds that would have been borrowed to fund the foregone spending/tax cuts? Do the investors that would have bought the treasury securities issued to fund the spending just wipe their ass with the cash instead and set it on fire?


Depends on what your unsustainable lifestyle is.  If it involves traveling around the country interviewing or going to college, then yes, you might.

And no - the investors don't wipe their ass with the money, but they're sure as hell not using it to buy things and hire people at the moment either.  Mostly they're using it to buy and sell other financial products in the giant circle jerk that is our current finance system.
 
2013-07-02 12:23:39 PM

Aarontology: So many predictions fell short because, in recent months, the administration and Congress did what was supposed to be impossible: They undid many of sequestration's scariest reductions

So it would seem that by not actually reducing spending, we avoided the consequences.


Tfa also said in some cases the effects are worse than forecast and in others it's too soon to tell. Why do I think the person who wrote the headline didn't rtfa?
 
2013-07-02 12:25:25 PM

vernonFL: I had plans to see the Blue Angels. That was cancelled.

I had plans to go to Fleet week. Cancelled.



And the White House tours are still shut down, but somehow they found $100 million to pay for the President's trip to Africa and money to give tanks and F-16s to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

Even the Farm bill was loaded with pork during this usless sequester.
 
2013-07-02 12:27:22 PM
By "we" do you mean people that count on government paychecks for their food? Because, no, they can't live without it.
 
2013-07-02 12:29:32 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: PanicMan: Deficit spending is how every country in the world works. Our "lifestyle" is still perfectly sustainable

If deficit spending is rational, its advocates have to put forth a strong formulation for it, given that it runs counter to sensible economic management at the household level.

The prudent voter may be wrong to think that the government should function like a household (income should exceed expenses), but that mistake is forgiveable if a strong explanation to the contrary is not provided.


There will always be wage-earners in a country. In households they eventually retire or die.
 
2013-07-02 12:31:33 PM

thurstonxhowell: No, and I farking hate this trend where, if someone says there will be the slightest problem with something, some "journalist" somewhere will pretend like they predicted the end of the world.


There's also the point that the folks on the right who brought us the sequester have literally not made one correct prediction in the last 30 years. From the economy to Iraq they're wrong time after time.

If anyone should sit down and shut up when it comes to calling people out on predictions it should be conservatives.
 
2013-07-02 12:32:23 PM
Excerpts Obama's statement from March 1st:

"Now, what's important to understand is that not everyone will feel the pain of these cuts right away.
...
So economists are estimating that as a consequence of this sequester, that we could see growth cut by over one-half of 1 percent.  It will cost about 750,000 jobs at a time when we should be growing jobs more quickly.  So every time that we get a piece of economic news, over the next month, next two months, next six months, as long as the sequester is in place, we'll know that that economic news could have been better if Congress had not failed to act.
...
And, in the meantime, just to make the final point about the sequester, we will get through this.  This is not going to be a apocalypse, I think as some people have said.  It's just dumb.  And it's going to hurt.  It's going to hurt individual people and it's going to hurt the economy overall."


Full statement:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/03/01/statement-pres id ent-sequester
 
2013-07-02 12:33:12 PM
Well then, by all means, let's continue the cuts until we ARE a third-world Mad Max-style wasteland. We can do it! USA! USA!
 
2013-07-02 12:33:35 PM
The Justice Department, for instance, prevented furloughs by "cutting" $300 million in money that had already legally expired, as well as $45 million meant to house detainees who didn't exist.

Man, someone's brother-in-law was all set to clean up on a do-nothing government contract, just to have it pulled out right from under him. Thanks, Obama.
 
2013-07-02 12:34:41 PM

StrikitRich: vernonFL: I had plans to see the Blue Angels. That was cancelled.

I had plans to go to Fleet week. Cancelled.


And the White House tours are still shut down, but somehow they found $100 million to pay for the President's trip to Africa and money to give tanks and F-16s to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

Even the Farm bill was loaded with pork during this usless sequester.


This is your brain on Fox News.
 
2013-07-02 12:36:13 PM
Just for clarity, Obama saying the sequester "is not going to be the apocalypse" is the exact opposite of "supposed to turn America into Mad Max meets Lord of the Flies".
 
2013-07-02 12:38:52 PM

PanicMan: Deficit spending is how every country in the world works. Our "lifestyle" is still perfectly sustainable.


no you see the government works just like your household finances and furthermore comma
 
2013-07-02 12:44:36 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: When you are in debt and spending more than you earn, do you borrow more to maintain your unsustainable lifestyle?


Depends.  Are you going to live forever and have effectively unlimited credit?  If so, then deficit spending is the way to go.
 
2013-07-02 12:46:02 PM
and anyone who values the national parks are telling you to EABOD right now... they've been operated on a shoe string budget for years and are always the first victims in cuts. and they lost more funding this year.
 
2013-07-02 12:46:48 PM

Dr Dreidel: Also:
[www.davehulihan.com image 439x246]

He looks legit. Maybe he CAN solve our problems...

// he's a doctor, after all


I'm Beezer Twelve Washingbeard, and I approve this message.
 
2013-07-02 12:47:31 PM
Guess what - if you borrow money and spend it on stupid shiat that doesn't have an ROI greater than one, it's going to suck when you have to stop spending money on that stupid shiat.

If the government borrowed five trillion dollars to create a massive ditch digging program in the middle of nowhere, and we tried to scale it back, people would be up in arms.  "But think of the ditch diggers!", they'd cry.  "Think of all those businesses those ditch diggers support!", they'd moan.  And they would probably get their way - even though borrowing money to fund a ditch digging program is a completely destructive and worthless endeavor.

/Did I say ditch digging? I meant military.
 
2013-07-02 12:48:10 PM

sabreWulf07: Depends.  Are you going to live forever and have effectively unlimited credit?  If so, then deficit spending is the way to go.


You might want to rethink that concept.  Central Banks just sold a record amount of US debt, and treasury yields spiked.
 
2013-07-02 12:50:20 PM

PanicMan: Deficit spending is how every country in the world works. Our "lifestyle" is still perfectly sustainable.


Central Banks just sold a record amount of US Debt.  Treasury Yields are spiking.  Greece was trying to "work" via deficit spending, and they have collapsed.
 
2013-07-02 12:51:21 PM

palelizard: I don't know about other Federal programs, but the Navy just started the furlough this period.  They pushed the cuts to the money they'd be spending at the end of the year, so the wife's getting a 20% pay cut starting for work done this week. It's not the end of the world, but it still stinks.


Yea the sequester personally boned me.  I was selected for a really nice DOD (Navy) postition.   The position was then eliminated.  I am not too angry about my new decision to go to grad school, but I would have rather taken a career track position.
 
2013-07-02 12:52:17 PM

StrikitRich: Even the Farm bill was loaded with pork during this usless sequester.


DAMN YOU, OBAMA!!
 
2013-07-02 12:53:42 PM

MattStafford: PanicMan: Deficit spending is how every country in the world works. Our "lifestyle" is still perfectly sustainable.

Central Banks just sold a record amount of US Debt.  Treasury Yields are spiking.  Greece was trying to "work" via deficit spending, and they have collapsed.


Not all deficit spending is created equal.  Pretty much every country in the world is a deficit spender, it's how you do it that matters.
 
2013-07-02 12:53:58 PM
Check my posts from three to six months ago. I called it a bluff then and have stuck with that ever since. Obama was being a dick by intentionally threatening to make the cuts in the most visible, painful areas as possible in order to make it look to the American people like this is what will necessarily happen if we cut even the tiniest sliver of federal spending. "Let's see... $60 million in cuts from the FAA. Shall we do away with bonuses, encourage teleconferencing instead of travel, and combine some administrative responsibilities? Nah. Let's furlough all the air traffic controllers so planes fall out of the sky and people die screaming in smoking hulks of twisted metal. That will show the American people how evil the Republicans are for forcing the sequester on us."
 
2013-07-02 12:54:08 PM
"We" obviously means "you", selfish ass submitter. Tell that to the poor schmucks who are about to get their unemployment befits cut, or their child's day care center closed, or any one of a host of hardships that the sequester is causing.

But it's not happening to you, so everything's fine. I got mine.
/fark you
 
2013-07-02 12:54:33 PM

firefly212: Some of us can live with a little less spending... those seniors who were on Meals on Wheels, or the people who were dependent on funding for cancer treatment centers... well, they die... but that's the conservative faux-christian way.. I guess that's what you end up with when you print "I got mine." on the front of a bible.


But we need to spend $30 billion dollars on a new Berlin Wall (with a moat with sharks with frickin' laser beams and shiat) on our border with Mexico!  Priorities, man, priorities.
 
2013-07-02 12:55:10 PM
Remember how the sequester was supposed to turn America into Mad Max meets Lord of the Flies?

No subby I don't. You know why? Because no one said anything like that.

I did have to wait hours to get through an airport line for someone to check my passport because they have almost no one working the customs booths anymore.

Have fun next time you take a flight and don't complain because you think everything is fine.
 
Displayed 50 of 269 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report