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(Washington Post)   US home prices rising ten times faster than median incomes. This is not a repeat from six years ago   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 145
    More: Asinine, median income, Real estate pricing, CoreLogic  
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4610 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jul 2013 at 9:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-02 09:49:59 AM  
Median incomes are rising?
 
2013-07-02 09:49:59 AM  
I bought 14 months ago, next to an imminent light rail project.  I'm a selfish bastard, so I'm okay with this.
 
2013-07-02 09:50:01 AM  
Someone tell that to my relocation company's shady home appraiser.
 
2013-07-02 09:50:22 AM  
I can't help but think this is somehow Obama's fault

/wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?
 
2013-07-02 09:51:34 AM  
Well, free money has a way of inflating prices on everything. The stock market has never been higher, either.
 
2013-07-02 09:52:27 AM  

ModernPrimitive01: I can't help but think this is somehow Obama's fault

/wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?


This is bad.  If you need to buy a house anyway.  It's awesome if you're selling.

/And I will be soon
//this crazy homeowner scheme may work yet.
 
hej
2013-07-02 09:52:55 AM  
As somebody who's house shopping because prices are rebounding, I'm getting a kick out of this thread.
 
2013-07-02 09:53:05 AM  
Can't wait to move into the country where values aren't driven by "flippers." Assholes who do shoddy construction, pray you hire a bad inspector just to inflate the market.

/gonna eat a lot of peaches
 
2013-07-02 09:54:15 AM  

ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?


Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.
 
2013-07-02 09:55:10 AM  
Everyone wants to make their money back before it crashes again.

/i do
 
2013-07-02 09:55:40 AM  

Kimpak: Someone tell that to my relocation company's shady home appraiser.


Everyone involved in real estate is shady. It's a scummy business.

Tom_Slick: ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?

Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.


Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".
 
2013-07-02 09:55:51 AM  
"Prices are still 20 percent below the peak reached in April 2006"

In other words, still way too farking high.  I fail to see how comparing home values to an unrealistic insane dangerous unsustainable high of a bubble that everyone acknowledges was a terrible thing is somehow relevant.  Even worse is articles like this one describing this as a "recovery" in prices or phrasing it as a good thing.
 
2013-07-02 09:55:56 AM  
its okay, I didn't really want a house anyway. renting is much more fun.

/sarcasm.
 
2013-07-02 09:56:09 AM  

hej: As somebody who's house shopping because prices are rebounding, I'm getting a kick out of this thread.


Shouldn't you be rending your garments? Mortgage rates are above 4%! Everybody PANIC!!!

// my folks got a low-5 rate in 1992, and that was a steal then
 
2013-07-02 09:56:41 AM  
I guess I can feel good about my house purchase in 2012 at 3% then.

How are the rest of you doing?
 
2013-07-02 09:56:58 AM  

Tom_Slick: Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again. While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble. The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.


Which is why the Fed would be wise to shut the damn faucet off and close that damn river of free cash coming into the market. Hell be damned we need to contract a little, otherwise we gonna get run away inflation here.
 
2013-07-02 09:57:13 AM  
Rising property taxes are a really neat thing for fixed-income seniors.
 
2013-07-02 09:58:03 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".


It is an investment, a 10-15 year investment for solid returns. It is not a 1-2 year investment.
 
2013-07-02 09:58:42 AM  
This is not a repeat from six seven, maybe eight years ago
 
2013-07-02 09:59:23 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Which is why the Fed would be wise to shut the damn faucet off and close that damn river of free cash coming into the market. Hell be damned we need to contract a little, otherwise we gonna get run away inflation here.


Yup, think groceries are expensive now, let the Fed keep this up for another 3 years.
 
2013-07-02 09:59:24 AM  

Katie98_KT: its okay, I didn't really want a house anyway. renting is much more fun.

/sarcasm.


What have you been doing for the last 6 years? That was the time to buy.
 
2013-07-02 09:59:49 AM  
SOOOO glad I bought last November rather than waiting until now like I originally planned.  Interest rates are already up a full point and the 65k off the original asking price that I got would not have happened.
 
2013-07-02 10:01:30 AM  
With rumors of higher interest rates, I think maybe people who had been waiting  have decdided this is the time to make a move. Let's hope Goverment doesn't insist loans be given to people who can't afford them .
 
2013-07-02 10:03:23 AM  

Tom_Slick: Quantum Apostrophe: Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".

It is an investment, a 10-15 year investment for solid returns. It is not a 1-2 year investment.


I've been in my house almost 10 years now, and I'm underwater.

/Bought well below the going rate for houses in the neighborhood, which was well below the going rate for the general area. Got farked anyway.
//Have a plan to pay down the mortgage, hoping the market meets me somewhere in the middle.
 
2013-07-02 10:04:34 AM  

Danger Mouse: With rumors of higher interest rates, I think maybe people who had been waiting  have decdided this is the time to make a move. Let's hope Goverment doesn't insist loans be given to people who can't afford them .


When has the government ever insisted loans be given to people who can't afford them?
 
2013-07-02 10:05:10 AM  

Danger Mouse: With rumors of higher interest rates, I think maybe people who had been waiting  have decdided this is the time to make a move. Let's hope Goverment doesn't insist loans be given to people who can't afford them .


It wasn't just the government, though Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac certainly helped to fuel the insanity, it was the banks, in that crazy market the banks knew they could sell a foreclosure for more money than they loaned, so they just gave anyone with a pulse a no money down loan.  Hell in 2005-6 it was cheaper upfront to buy a house than it was to rent an apartment.
 
2013-07-02 10:06:05 AM  

The Homer Tax: Danger Mouse: With rumors of higher interest rates, I think maybe people who had been waiting  have decdided this is the time to make a move. Let's hope Goverment doesn't insist loans be given to people who can't afford them .

When has the government ever insisted loans be given to people who can't afford them?


Give him a minute, he has to look the answer up on The Blaze
 
2013-07-02 10:06:39 AM  

robertus: Tom_Slick: Quantum Apostrophe: Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".

It is an investment, a 10-15 year investment for solid returns. It is not a 1-2 year investment.

I've been in my house almost 10 years now, and I'm underwater.

/Bought well below the going rate for houses in the neighborhood, which was well below the going rate for the general area. Got farked anyway.
//Have a plan to pay down the mortgage, hoping the market meets me somewhere in the middle.


Yeah. I don't think housing is ever going to be a good monetary vehicle. I bought 4 years ago, and my house has been worth more than what I paid for it more or less since then. I think it comes down more to luck and timing than any kind of time period for a house to be a useful investment. The real thing I get out of it is someplace to live. Wouldn't break my heart to make money on it, but I ain't holding my breath.
 
2013-07-02 10:07:06 AM  
I bought in 08, sold for a 10% profit in 2012.  Bought again in 2012.   I'm hoping to hold on to this one long-term.   Where I bought in 08 sucked(NoVA).

Looking at rental prices, I'm doing really well with my mortgage, especially considering I have two dogs and need a garage for my cars.

/3.25%
 
2013-07-02 10:07:44 AM  

Tom_Slick: Quantum Apostrophe: Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".

It is an investment, a 10-15 year investment for solid returns. It is not a 1-2 year investment.


I disagree on several points of that. It's not an investment, it is a place to live.  Generally, if you have purchased with a standard mortgage, you will save a significant amount over rent.  This is why I don't understand that trend of "walking away from a house" a few years ago just because the value of the home was lower than the mortage owed.  People bought a place to live, it was worth it to them then, theyt had the income, and nothing has signifcantly changed about their living situations.  They walked out on a "bad investment" to go rent something.  As in, left it for forclosure.

Your timing is off, 5 years and you can improve a home to change the value significantly.  10 to 15 WILL get you a "profit" from paying into the principal balance, but you will likely have to make major renovations and updates to keep the value up (or be predatory in your sale).
 
2013-07-02 10:09:30 AM  

Fonaibung: Well, free money has a way of inflating prices on everything. The stock market has never been higher, either.


Yes, those hard to get home loans, unless you have superb credit and a 10 to 20% down payment*, is some "easy" money inflating house prices.

I hear this a lot from the Fox News crowd (or is it the Glenn Beck watchers?). QE isn't buying equities, so how is it raising equities and not everything else?


*this is much preferable to the situation in 2006.
 
2013-07-02 10:09:32 AM  
Banks are still sitting on a huge backlog they are dribbling out to keep inventories low.

Most of the buyers are not Americans, but rather money returning from Asia in the form of real estate investment.
 
2013-07-02 10:10:07 AM  

Tom_Slick: Danger Mouse: With rumors of higher interest rates, I think maybe people who had been waiting  have decdided this is the time to make a move. Let's hope Goverment doesn't insist loans be given to people who can't afford them .

It wasn't just the government, though Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac certainly helped to fuel the insanity, it was the banks, in that crazy market the banks knew they could sell a foreclosure for more money than they loaned, so they just gave anyone with a pulse a no money down loan.  Hell in 2005-6 it was cheaper upfront to buy a house than it was to rent an apartment.


you have no idea what you are talking about
 
2013-07-02 10:10:46 AM  

Tom_Slick: ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?

Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.


Yep, house prices should rise at the rate of inflation, roughly. If this rate continues, it won't be a good thing.
 
2013-07-02 10:11:07 AM  

robertus: Tom_Slick: Quantum Apostrophe: Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".

It is an investment, a 10-15 year investment for solid returns. It is not a 1-2 year investment.

I've been in my house almost 10 years now, and I'm underwater.

/Bought well below the going rate for houses in the neighborhood, which was well below the going rate for the general area. Got farked anyway.
//Have a plan to pay down the mortgage, hoping the market meets me somewhere in the middle.


Another 5 years and you have a good chance of being in good shape. Unfortunately foreclosures going for 1/3 the original purchase price killed some neighborhoods.  It did mine 2003 price for my home 230,000, 2008 price 125,000, 2010 price 86,000, 2013 price 140,000. I bought in 2008 and got lucky.
 
2013-07-02 10:12:34 AM  

Tom_Slick: ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?

Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.


I'm just wondering who has the money.    Can't be us thirtysomethings.

/at least not in socal
 
2013-07-02 10:12:59 AM  

impaler: Fonaibung: Well, free money has a way of inflating prices on everything. The stock market has never been higher, either.

Yes, those hard to get home loans, unless you have superb credit and a 10 to 20% down payment*, is some "easy" money inflating house prices.

I hear this a lot from the Fox News crowd (or is it the Glenn Beck watchers?). QE isn't buying equities, so how is it raising equities and not everything else?


*this is much preferable to the situation in 2006.


You are both right. Cheap money is flowing freely ... for banks, but credit for the average American is still tighter than a Chinese nun.
 
2013-07-02 10:14:14 AM  

Tom_Slick: Quantum Apostrophe: Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".

It is an investment, a 10-15 year investment for solid returns. It is not a 1-2 year investment.


Fine. Sell it in 10 years. Oops, now you're homeless. Gotta buy a new place. Think your place is the only one that went up in "value"? Uh oh, a house is worth a house. That's it, that's all.

In the meantime, you're shovelling money out the window on taxes, insurance, maintenance, and all the crap you have to buy to fill the place up with garbage.


I live in a cheap, crooked apartment. I pay far less than a mortgage plus taxes would be. The difference I invest (for real) into my RRSP (Canadian retirement fund.)

That amount is deducted from my gross income at tax time.

I get 5000$ a year back for putting in 10000$ a year.  Of course, I use the 5000$ from the previous year.

You can't do that with a house.

With a house you're constantly going from one tax to another, one expense to another.

I prefer to live now. I don't need money ten years from now, I need it today. I worked for it today after all.

Houses are just a way to transfer risk from the private companies building them to the idiots buying them.

At best the contractor is liable for 5 years on the warranty. You're stuck paying for it for decades.

The only one taking on any risk in this scheme is the home "owner".
 
2013-07-02 10:14:54 AM  

Tom_Slick: Quantum Apostrophe: Well then tell the real estate "industry" to stop selling a house as an "investment".

It is an investment, a 10-15 year investment for solid returns. It is not a 1-2 year investment.


No, it's an investment in that you don't have to rent and it's a store of wealth. Already developed real estate isn't a money maker, and shouldn't be seen as one.

Unless you mean the inflation adjusted prices rises in 10 to 15 years, but that's not really "returns," that's just "maintaining."
 
2013-07-02 10:15:01 AM  

raerae1980: Tom_Slick: ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?

Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.

I'm just wondering who has the money.    Can't be us thirtysomethings.

/at least not in socal


the Chinamen
 
2013-07-02 10:15:49 AM  
CSB:

A guy/friend of mine from high school and college is one of the "stars" on Property Wars. I watch the spectacle and shake my damn head at all that is wrong with our system.
 
2013-07-02 10:16:29 AM  

generallyso: Median incomes are rising?



That's what happens when the poorest people start to die off.
 
2013-07-02 10:18:46 AM  

raerae1980: Tom_Slick: ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?

Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.

I'm just wondering who has the money.    Can't be us thirtysomethings.

/at least not in socal


I bought 2 years ago and I'm a 20-something (holding onto that title tightly while I can).
The isurance is sky-high and I'm basically paying rent rates, but I'm building equity, kicking credit score ass, and looks like I'll sell at a nice hike that will reflect all of the work I've done on the place (90% cosmetic, but some hardcore plumbing and HVAC updates).
 
2013-07-02 10:20:08 AM  

mike_d85: raerae1980: Tom_Slick: ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?

Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.

I'm just wondering who has the money.    Can't be us thirtysomethings.

/at least not in socal

I bought 2 years ago and I'm a 20-something (holding onto that title tightly while I can).
The isurance is sky-high and I'm basically paying rent rates, but I'm building equity, kicking credit score ass, and looks like I'll sell at a nice hike that will reflect all of the work I've done on the place (90% cosmetic, but some hardcore plumbing and HVAC updates).


And no, I'm not in SoCal, I'm in SoCar
 
2013-07-02 10:22:28 AM  

impaler: you don't have to rent


Why is renting bad? I don't have to worry about sudden repairs or upkeep or whatever. I just call the landlord and go on with my life.

You don't see people buying a farm so they don't "waste" their money at the supermarket.

You're paying for a service. And seeing what a pain in the ass real estate is, I'm glad someone else is stuck with the bills.

In Quebec there is a rental board that mediates rent increases. I think this is different in each jurisdiction and probably explains the different attitudes towards renting/owning.
 
2013-07-02 10:23:31 AM  

wescoe: raerae1980: Tom_Slick: ModernPrimitive01: /wait, it only works when it's bad stuff?

Actually this is bad stuff, speculators, investors, and flippers are buying inventory again.  While that does help the glut of foreclosures on the market, it means we could be heading back to a real estate bubble.  The real estate market becomes unstable when average people stop looking at a house as a long term purchase.

I'm just wondering who has the money.    Can't be us thirtysomethings.

/at least not in socal

the Chinamen


i58.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-02 10:25:34 AM  

Tom_Slick: Danger Mouse: With rumors of higher interest rates, I think maybe people who had been waiting  have decdided this is the time to make a move. Let's hope Goverment doesn't insist loans be given to people who can't afford them .

It wasn't just the government, though Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac certainly helped to fuel the insanity, it was the banks, in that crazy market the banks knew they could sell a foreclosure for more money than they loaned, so they just gave anyone with a pulse a no money down loan.  Hell in 2005-6 it was cheaper upfront to buy a house than it was to rent an apartment.


Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac have standards for the loans they will secure, see "conforming loan."

Subprime lending started to shoot up in 2003. And Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac weren't securing those loans.

growlersoftware.com

growlersoftware.com

And guess who had problem with delinquencies (FYI, GSEs were fannie freddie)?
growlersoftware.com
 
2013-07-02 10:27:10 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: impaler: you don't have to rent

Why is renting bad?


It's not bad, but over the live of your house, buying is cheaper.
 
2013-07-02 10:28:51 AM  

Tom_Slick: Danger Mouse: With rumors of higher interest rates, I think maybe people who had been waiting  have decdided this is the time to make a move. Let's hope Goverment doesn't insist loans be given to people who can't afford them .

It wasn't just the government, though Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac certainly helped to fuel the insanity, it was the banks, in that crazy market the banks knew they could sell a foreclosure for more money than they loaned, so they just gave anyone with a pulse a no money down loan.  Hell in 2005-6 it was cheaper upfront to buy a house than it was to rent an apartment.


Um. no.   the 1991 changes to the Comutnity Reinvetment act drove the artificial boom wich of course eventrually crashed.

/I still remeber all the Farkers posting how they couldn't wait for the market to crash and how they'd scoop up all these great deals.  It was about the same time that I realized most of the posers in Fark are aboslute morons.

Not you of course.
 
2013-07-02 10:29:52 AM  
As someone who bought a foreclosed house for $55k in cash last October, I'm getting a kick out of these real estate threads.

/Spending tons of money to fix the previous owners mistakes though.
//Not an investment, it is my home.
 
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