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(Global Geopolitics)   A stubborn Turkey hell-bent on reviving the Ottoman Empire thinks it's so damn slick in gobbling up Chinese military hardware in a rebuke to NATO... that isn't really compatible with the current NATO systems they already use. Yeah, that'll learn'em   (glblgeopolitics.wordpress.com) divider line 59
    More: Dumbass, Ottoman Empire, NATO, Turkey, Chinese, air defense systems, interoperability, systems, hardware  
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1332 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jul 2013 at 10:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-02 09:02:33 AM
I think it was PJ O'Rourke who said the Ottoman Empire was named so as it was run with all the intelligence of a footstool.
 
2013-07-02 09:27:10 AM
I thought Turkey bought all the Russian and Chinese kit so the Americans could get a good look at them. Also, why don't people complain about the Americans using Sweedish or South African equipment? They're not in NATO.
 
2013-07-02 09:34:38 AM
They sound concerned.

They always sound concerned over there.

And is that an ugly web site, or what?
 
2013-07-02 10:17:52 AM
Psalm 110:1
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-02 10:17:53 AM

Tr0mBoNe: I thought Turkey bought all the Russian and Chinese kit so the Americans could get a good look at them. Also, why don't people complain about the Americans using Sweedish or South African equipment? They're not in NATO.


Because the trucks from SA and the guns from Sweden aren't going to shoot your aircraft down because of being incompatible with NATO IFF equipment.
 
2013-07-02 10:23:11 AM
Screwing western defense contractors out of $4 billion may have repercussions they're not considering.  There's a reason people refer to the military-industrial complex like it's Skynet.
 
2013-07-02 10:33:04 AM
If Turkey wants to try and keep the Middle East in line, that's fine by me.
 
2013-07-02 10:41:37 AM
That's a bit weird.  While I can understand politics, I'm at a loss why the military would go with this.
 
2013-07-02 10:41:53 AM
You may laugh at the Ottomans, but they get to play two home cards, and their navy is a serious threat as long as Dragut is in play.
 
2013-07-02 10:43:09 AM

Satanic_Hamster: That's a bit weird.  While I can understand politics, I'm at a loss why the military would go with this.



It's not like illogical purchases are a new or unusual development in military procurement.
 
2013-07-02 10:43:59 AM
I'm sure there are no bribes taking place during this process... yep... none at all.
 
2013-07-02 10:47:06 AM
Turkey is gobbling up Chinese merchandise? I call fowl! We shouldn't put up with this tom-foolery.

On the other hand, Turkey is stuffed with terrorists. Maybe we are better off. Instead of running around like chickens with our heads cut off, we should spend our time giving thanks.

/There must be a way to get cranberry sauce into this, but I'm really tired.
 
2013-07-02 10:48:27 AM

Satanic_Hamster: That's a bit weird.  While I can understand politics, I'm at a loss why the military would go with this.


I'm going with a combination of the aforementioned "Western defence contractors used to being able to charge whatever they want" and "the Chinese using a combination of bribes and loss-leading to get their foot in the door".
 
2013-07-02 10:49:07 AM

Satanic_Hamster: That's a bit weird.  While I can understand politics, I'm at a loss why the military would go with this.


The Chinese tech works for much cheaper and there's a lot of it, which is good when you have to buy more an hour later.
 
2013-07-02 10:50:39 AM

Satanic_Hamster: That's a bit weird.  While I can understand politics, I'm at a loss why the military would go with this.


I do not laugh at them.

I believe Turkey will be the epicenter of the next World War.

They were on the fence between the East & West... now with the fall of the EU, they have picked East.

Changing over to non-European weapons systems, certainly backs up this change in tide.
 
2013-07-02 10:51:08 AM

GameSprocket: Turkey is gobbling up Chinese merchandise? I call fowl! We shouldn't put up with this tom-foolery.

On the other hand, Turkey is stuffed with terrorists. Maybe we are better off. Instead of running around like chickens with our heads cut off, we should spend our time giving thanks.

/There must be a way to get cranberry sauce into this, but I'm really tired.


Something something cranberry sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
 
2013-07-02 10:53:28 AM

NostroZ: now with the fall of the EU,


What the fark?
 
2013-07-02 10:54:50 AM
Turkey has a thousand year old tradition of importing military tech from out China way.

Just because you don't know your neighbors on the next block doesn't mean the folks on the corner don't.
 
2013-07-02 10:58:05 AM

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: I'm going with a combination of the aforementioned "Western defence contractors used to being able to charge whatever they want" and "the Chinese using a combination of bribes and loss-leading to get their foot in the door".


Not really; there's a good bit of competition from multiple nations for contracts like this.  Several US firms, UK, France, Swiss, Germans, South Koreans, Israel, etc.

Philip Francis Queeg: NostroZ: now with the fall of the EU,

What the fark?


I have NostroZ listed as "wants to be Tatsuma but too stupid to pull it off."   He shows a special kind of stupidity in mideast threads.
 
2013-07-02 11:09:43 AM
A stubborn Turkey hell-bent on reviving the Ottoman Empire

Is this a reference to something? TFA makes no such claim.  And it would be a silly claim to make, seeing as how Turkey has refused to get involved in either Syria or Iran.
 
2013-07-02 11:09:58 AM
That's insane. They're just going to want more Chinese military hardware half an hour later.
 
2013-07-02 11:11:15 AM
By Iran I meant Iraq -- Iran would be a far taller order than anything the Turkish military could handle.
 
2013-07-02 11:12:48 AM
Actually that's pretty on par with the incompetence of the late Ottoman  Empire.
 
2013-07-02 11:13:59 AM

NostroZ: They were on the fence between the East & West... now with the fall of the EU, they have picked East.


The EU fell?  Has this been on the news and I missed it?  Man I got to stop playing so much Secret World.
 
2013-07-02 11:19:39 AM

NostroZ: now with the fall of the EU


You're getting a little ahead of yourself.  They just signed up Croatia.
 
2013-07-02 11:36:39 AM
This might give the politically correct morons a little butt-hurt, but in a nutshell: Turkey wants in the EU. The EU doesn't want to open the flood gates of 98 million Turkish Muslims. Turkey buys Chinese goods. So, what to do if they're not compatible? Well then, send in the Chinese experts to reverse engineer US/NATO technology, allowing them to further steal military secrets for their advantage while simultaneously making it compatible and slowly switching over to foreign hardware. In the end, Turkey's butt-hurt self will end up joining the Sino-Soviet SCO axis.
 
2013-07-02 11:48:10 AM

Gergesa: NostroZ: They were on the fence between the East & West... now with the fall of the EU, they have picked East.

The EU fell?  Has this been on the news and I missed it?  Man I got to stop playing so much Secret World.


Semantics... I know it's easier to split hairs, for Turkey, the EU is has failed them.  They are turning eastward, away from the west.

The EU has stopped expanding. It is no longer a viable option for the Balkan states... while it has not 'fallen' it is no longer a direction Turkey will go in.
"The EU needs Turkey more than Turkey needs the EU," Egemen Bagis, Turkey's EU minister stated.[32] "If we have to, we could tell them, "get lost.'"

Therefore, in viewing the EU as a superpower, they have fallen from their glorious status of when they were expanding eastward and modernizing economies with it.
Turkey is now joining the East; China, India, Arab states, etc.

THIS is what is worthy of discussion.  Turkey, the Ottoman empire's home will soon no longer be our ally.
That has some weight on our lives... not if the word fallen vs. failed was used.
 
2013-07-02 11:53:39 AM

that1guy77: This might give the politically correct morons a little butt-hurt, but in a nutshell: Turkey wants in the EU. The EU doesn't want to open the flood gates of 98 million Turkish Muslims. Turkey buys Chinese goods. So, what to do if they're not compatible? Well then, send in the Chinese experts to reverse engineer US/NATO technology, allowing them to further steal military secrets for their advantage while simultaneously making it compatible and slowly switching over to foreign hardware. In the end, Turkey's butt-hurt self will end up joining the Sino-Soviet SCO axis.


This is what a REAL opinion on a geopolitical news story sounds like ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Take notes Farkers
 
2013-07-02 12:06:37 PM

NostroZ: Gergesa: NostroZ: They were on the fence between the East & West... now with the fall of the EU, they have picked East.

The EU fell?  Has this been on the news and I missed it?  Man I got to stop playing so much Secret World.

Semantics... I know it's easier to split hairs, for Turkey, the EU is has failed them.  They are turning eastward, away from the west.

The EU has stopped expanding. It is no longer a viable option for the Balkan states... while it has not 'fallen' it is no longer a direction Turkey will go in.
"The EU needs Turkey more than Turkey needs the EU," Egemen Bagis, Turkey's EU minister stated.[32] "If we have to, we could tell them, "get lost.'"

Therefore, in viewing the EU as a superpower, they have fallen from their glorious status of when they were expanding eastward and modernizing economies with it.
Turkey is now joining the East; China, India, Arab states, etc.

THIS is what is worthy of discussion.  Turkey, the Ottoman empire's home will soon no longer be our ally.
That has some weight on our lives... not if the word fallen vs. failed was used.


You seem to confuse the EU and NATO.

Secondly the EU has not stopped expanding. It expanded just yesterday. In the farking Balkans.
 
2013-07-02 12:20:47 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: You seem to confuse the EU and NATO.


No, I meant the EU, the social/financial European sphere of influence... which goes hand-in-hand with the military European led organization NATO.  You seem to be the confused one... confusing your smart ass semantics remark for an educated opinion.

Secondly the EU has not stopped expanding. It expanded just yesterday. In the farking Balkans.

Croatia joined... a small sliver of a country.  This is negligible and is a lag-over from prior to the financial crisis.

Croatia petitioned to join the EU in 2005, same year as Turkey.
Yet, Turkey, if they EVER will join, are slated for some time in 2020s.

I'm looking into the windshield and see that Turkey is joining the East and the EU is losing its luster.
You're looking into the rear view mirror and are quick to point out that in the past, the EU was growing and now still has a few stragglers.
 
2013-07-02 12:25:51 PM
I am a Turkey. Eat me.
 
2013-07-02 12:29:00 PM

NostroZ: Philip Francis Queeg: You seem to confuse the EU and NATO.

No, I meant the EU, the social/financial European sphere of influence... which goes hand-in-hand with the military European led organization NATO.  You seem to be the confused one... confusing your smart ass semantics remark for an educated opinion.

Secondly the EU has not stopped expanding. It expanded just yesterday. In the farking Balkans.

Croatia joined... a small sliver of a country.  This is negligible and is a lag-over from prior to the financial crisis.

Croatia petitioned to join the EU in 2005, same year as Turkey.
Yet, Turkey, if they EVER will join, are slated for some time in 2020s.

I'm looking into the windshield and see that Turkey is joining the East and the EU is losing its luster.
You're looking into the rear view mirror and are quick to point out that in the past, the EU was growing and now still has a few stragglers.


Europe has traditionally stopped at Constantinople, but nonetheless Turkey is still trying hard to join the EU.  As far as I know that effort is still on track.  What do the bookies say?
 
2013-07-02 12:32:15 PM

NostroZ: No, I meant the EU, the social/financial European sphere of influence... which goes hand-in-hand with the military European led organization NATO


Yeah, so much led by Europe that every single Supreme Commander has been an American.

NostroZ: roatia joined... a small sliver of a country.


As opposed to the large, significant countries in the Balkans?

NostroZ: I'm looking into the windshield and see that Turkey is joining the East and the EU is losing its luster.
You're looking into the rear view mirror and are quick to point out that in the past, the EU was growing and now still has a few stragglers.


So for the EU to maintain it's luster, in your expert opinion, it must constantly be growing? Well then you'll be delighted to know that Albania, Bosnia, Iceland, Kosovo,  Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey are all in the process of joining.

Tell us more about this Eastern Alliance that Turkey is going to join. What are it's member states? How many countries are in the process of joining? How do it's political, economic and military structures compare?
 
2013-07-02 12:52:45 PM
So that means we get to steal the next version of the Fire Fox system, The 9 Tails, from the Turks? After they buy them from the Chinks of course. I guess the pilot will have to think in Towel Head.
 
2013-07-02 12:56:10 PM

NostroZ: Satanic_Hamster: That's a bit weird.  While I can understand politics, I'm at a loss why the military would go with this.

I do not laugh at them.

I believe Turkey will be the epicenter of the next World War.

They were on the fence between the East & West... now with the fall of the EU, they have picked East.

Changing over to non-European weapons systems, certainly backs up this change in tide.


I don't think it will be specifically turkey, but rather poultry in general.
 
2013-07-02 01:10:18 PM

NostroZ: that1guy77: This might give the politically correct morons a little butt-hurt, but in a nutshell: Turkey wants in the EU. The EU doesn't want to open the flood gates of 98 million Turkish Muslims. Turkey buys Chinese goods. So, what to do if they're not compatible? Well then, send in the Chinese experts to reverse engineer US/NATO technology, allowing them to further steal military secrets for their advantage while simultaneously making it compatible and slowly switching over to foreign hardware. In the end, Turkey's butt-hurt self will end up joining the Sino-Soviet SCO axis.

This is what a REAL opinion on a geopolitical news story sounds like ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Take notes Farkers


That reads more like an indictment of the United State's lack of a good mental health care system than anything else.
 
2013-07-02 01:20:08 PM
Subby, I don't think you understand what the Ottoman Empire was if you think that a "return to the Ottoman Empire" makes as much sense as say "a return to the Soviet Union".

The Ottoman Empire was quite different from what became the modern nation state of Turkey. Radical Right wingers in turkey do not say "we should go back to the days of the Ottomans"

Seriously, read some history books on the creation of Turkey.
 
2013-07-02 01:40:14 PM
I liked Antalya

/that is all, carry on
 
2013-07-02 01:48:57 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: NostroZ: No, I meant the EU, the social/financial European sphere of influence... which goes hand-in-hand with the military European led organization NATO

Yeah, so much led by Europe that every single Supreme Commander has been an American.

NostroZ: roatia joined... a small sliver of a country.

As opposed to the large, significant countries in the Balkans?

NostroZ: I'm looking into the windshield and see that Turkey is joining the East and the EU is losing its luster.
You're looking into the rear view mirror and are quick to point out that in the past, the EU was growing and now still has a few stragglers.

So for the EU to maintain it's luster, in your expert opinion, it must constantly be growing? Well then you'll be delighted to know that Albania, Bosnia, Iceland, Kosovo,  Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey are all in the process of joining.

Tell us more about this Eastern Alliance that Turkey is going to join. What are it's member states? How many countries are in the process of joining? How do it's political, economic and military structures compare?


It brings me great joy that you have come to the realization that you do not know much about the East and are asking for assistance.

The Eastern alliance that Turkey is considering joining is called The Arab League.
It's member states comprise of 22 different countries, the biggest being Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Morocco, and Iraq.
The economy is mainly raw material driven, but no doubt is modernizing.  For further reading, start here.

I am very happy that you have come to the Socratic paradox of "I know that I know nothing" so organically.
 
2013-07-02 01:54:05 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: So for the EU to maintain it's luster, in your expert opinion, it must constantly be growing? Well then you'll be delighted to know that Albania, Bosnia, Iceland, Kosovo,  Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey are all in the process of joining.


FYI - Those were pre 2008 financial crisis desires.

Take Iceland for example:   Here's their current position on joining (not) the EU

In February 2013, the national congress of both the Independence Party and Progressive Party reconfirmed their policy that further membership negotiations with the EU should be stopped and not resumed unless they are first approved by a national referendum, while the national congresses of the Social Democratic Alliance, Bright Future and Left-Green Movement reiterated their support for the completion of EU accession negotiations
 
2013-07-02 01:58:02 PM

NostroZ: The Eastern alliance that Turkey is considering joining is called The Arab League.


And I suppose you have a credible source for that?
 
2013-07-02 02:28:04 PM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-07-02 02:48:46 PM

Marcus Aurelius: They sound concerned.

They always sound concerned over there.

And is that an ugly web site, or what?


I just want to know how much they are paying for a daily greenlight of their crap.
 
2013-07-02 03:28:11 PM

Satanic_Hamster: NostroZ: The Eastern alliance that Turkey is considering joining is called The Arab League.

And I suppose you have a credible source for that?


Wikipedia:
Turkey has expressed desires for an observer status in the League, but has been refused for several political reasons.
 
2013-07-02 03:35:07 PM
What 'NATO HARDWARE SECRETS' are the Chinese going to get from Turkey, that they dont already get from Israel and the friggin' US? None of Turkey's Western hardware is new, cutting edge or hard to get.
 
2013-07-02 03:53:07 PM

NostroZ: Philip Francis Queeg: NostroZ: No, I meant the EU, the social/financial European sphere of influence... which goes hand-in-hand with the military European led organization NATO

Yeah, so much led by Europe that every single Supreme Commander has been an American.

NostroZ: roatia joined... a small sliver of a country.

As opposed to the large, significant countries in the Balkans?

NostroZ: I'm looking into the windshield and see that Turkey is joining the East and the EU is losing its luster.
You're looking into the rear view mirror and are quick to point out that in the past, the EU was growing and now still has a few stragglers.

So for the EU to maintain it's luster, in your expert opinion, it must constantly be growing? Well then you'll be delighted to know that Albania, Bosnia, Iceland, Kosovo,  Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey are all in the process of joining.

Tell us more about this Eastern Alliance that Turkey is going to join. What are it's member states? How many countries are in the process of joining? How do it's political, economic and military structures compare?

It brings me great joy that you have come to the realization that you do not know much about the East and are asking for assistance.

The Eastern alliance that Turkey is considering joining is called The Arab League.
It's member states comprise of 22 different countries, the biggest being Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Morocco, and Iraq.
The economy is mainly raw material driven, but no doubt is modernizing.  For further reading, start here.

I am very happy that you have come to the Socratic paradox of "I know that I know nothing" so organically.


The Arab league. How interesting.  The Arab League hasn't admitted a new member since 1993, with the addition of Comoros, a country a fraction of the size of Croatia, before that one must go back to 1977. Considering your deep concerns about the EU's lack of growth, that must mean that the Arab League has failed even more completely, correct?

Please explain how Turkey's possible purchase of weapons from a non-Arab League member in any way indicates it's imminent association with that organisation. Also explain how Turkey will be admitted to an organization whose charter says it is composed of "Independent Arab States". when it is not an Arab State.
 
2013-07-02 04:41:39 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: The Arab league. How interesting.  The Arab League hasn't admitted a new member since 1993, with the addition of Comoros, a country a fraction of the size of Croatia, before that one must go back to 1977. Considering your deep concerns about the EU's lack of growth, that must mean that the Arab League has failed even more completely, correct?

Please explain how Turkey's possible purchase of weapons from a non-Arab League member in any way indicates it's imminent association with that organisation. Also explain how Turkey will be admitted to an organization whose charter says it is composed of "Independent Arab States". when it is not an Arab State.


You're putting words into my mouth in order to restructure what I said to fit in with what you believe.  I said that Turkey is joining the East and loosing the interest it had with the West.

Currently, Turkey is growing more friendly with the Arab league, though they may not join it, they certainly have much closer relations with their member states.

Also, considering that the Ottoman empire existed within the same borders as the Arab League members, would hint at the historic viability of those countries working together.

Please tell me you have more brains and understanding of basic communication that you don't view my statement like a robot::: Turkey + Arab League Membership = True/False

Because that's not how politics works... names change... but the trajectory of people continue... if you are looking to prove me wrong, then I suggest you we stop this interrogation, because I was looking for a discussion.  Not to educate you or have you interrogate me.
 
2013-07-02 04:47:25 PM

NostroZ: Philip Francis Queeg: The Arab league. How interesting.  The Arab League hasn't admitted a new member since 1993, with the addition of Comoros, a country a fraction of the size of Croatia, before that one must go back to 1977. Considering your deep concerns about the EU's lack of growth, that must mean that the Arab League has failed even more completely, correct?

Please explain how Turkey's possible purchase of weapons from a non-Arab League member in any way indicates it's imminent association with that organisation. Also explain how Turkey will be admitted to an organization whose charter says it is composed of "Independent Arab States". when it is not an Arab State.

You're putting words into my mouth in order to restructure what I said to fit in with what you believe.  I said that Turkey is joining the East and loosing the interest it had with the West.

Currently, Turkey is growing more friendly with the Arab league, though they may not join it, they certainly have much closer relations with their member states.

Also, considering that the Ottoman empire existed within the same borders as the Arab League members, would hint at the historic viability of those countries working together.

Please tell me you have more brains and understanding of basic communication that you don't view my statement like a robot::: Turkey + Arab League Membership = True/False

Because that's not how politics works... names change... but the trajectory of people continue... if you are looking to prove me wrong, then I suggest you we stop this interrogation, because I was looking for a discussion.  Not to educate you or have you interrogate me.


I didn't put a single word in your mouth. I restructured nothing.

NostroZ: The Eastern alliance that Turkey is considering joining is called The Arab League.


I had the brains to read your direct statement. You seem to repeatedly type things that you then say are not what you meant. Why is that?
 
2013-07-02 05:19:18 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: NostroZ: The Eastern alliance that Turkey is considering joining is called The Arab League.

I had the brains to read your direct statement. You seem to repeatedly type things that you then say are not what you meant. Why is that?


Why is that?  It's pretty simple my nitpicking Farker.   You are choosing to pick apart what I say instead of have a conversation.

I'm here making a general statement regarding the article.  I said that Turkey is positioning itself towards the East now and will in my opinion be the epicenter of the clash of civilizations with the West.  I felt that this was in line with 1) Turkey's move away from EU membership, 2) now the purchase of non-NATO weapons, 3) the geographic regional rule of the Ottoman empire 4) Turkey's attempt to join the Arab league before and current closer ties with their member states.

In replying to those facts, which support my original opinion, you have done nothing more than try to rebuff each one of my points, without success.
Therefore, I ask you  why is it that instead of having a topic conversation about Turkey and their global position in regards to the West v. East, we are  arguing about semantics?

Why is it that you are choosing to make this personal about me and my points, instead of having an actual INTELLIGENT conversation where YOU make a point, instead of riding my coat-tails trying to fling poop in my direction?
 
2013-07-02 05:22:12 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: I had the brains to read your direct statement. You seem to repeatedly type things that you then say are not what you meant. Why is that?


Remember when I said earlier that he wants to be Tatsuma but doesn't have the brains to pull it off?
 
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