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(Yahoo)   U.S. House says, be proud, there is nothing wrong with Mexican citizenship   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 63
    More: Spiffy, U.S. House, Goodlatte, John McCain, House Judiciary Committee, Chuck Schumer, Boehner, Luis Gutierrez, Nancy Pelosi  
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4898 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jul 2013 at 6:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
MFK
2013-07-01 07:38:28 PM
6 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!


You could also crack down on people who hire illegals... You know, the companies who provide the inventive for fence-hopping and are the "real" root of the problem but that would be messing with the almighty "job creators", wouldn't it?
2013-07-01 07:51:34 PM
5 votes:
Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.
2013-07-01 08:30:15 PM
4 votes:
Posted this to an earlier thread.

Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

He's a lying fark.
2013-07-01 07:30:12 PM
4 votes:
csb time:
I used to teach ESL/citizenship classes. Had a student come in one morning looking like all hell. I asked if he was ok. He said "Si, my son was born 6am." It was 8am when he came in. I asked him why he was even in class. He looked at me like I was crazy and said "I want to be American."

Anyone who discourages people like that from coming here is an idiot.

Besides, odds are, once they accrue enough assets to want to protect their hard earned gains from the welfare sponge class, they probably will vote Republican.
2013-07-02 12:33:52 AM
3 votes:
I'll say it again:  California really is like an amazing little microcosm of the whole US, just twenty years ahead of time.

CA gave you Nixon, and Reagan, and then slowly slid towards blue as the GOP alienated every constituency imaginable (through moves like Prop 187) except the deep, rural red farming areas, until there simply wasn't enough votes left to remain in power through any legitimate means.  They lost the support of big business, who increasingly grew up in deep blue cultural pockets like Silicon Valley, and had no taste for the social conservatism of years before.  Meanwhile, the state went into complete gridlock for nearly two decades as deep gerrymandering on both sides sent people to Sacramento who's only claim to governance were their oaths to never compromise, and supermajorities (which neither had) became necessary to raise spending or cut taxes.  Meanwhile a mini-industry of hyper-partisan shock jocks sprang up to ride the outrage machine to fame and fortune while secretly cheering on the total dysfunction.

Sound familiar?   The state slowly slid out of financial control due to complete paralysis until the GOP demographics became so weak, a popular referendum finally wiped out gerrymandered districts and the state swung almost instantly to Democratic supermajorities in both houses.  Now that folks can actually govern again, and the economy is picking up on its own, Democrats get to take credit for the entire rebound and elimination of the deficit, even if that's not entirely fair, further cementing their lead.  It's hard to imagine how Republicans can possibly ever compete here again -- at least until the one-party system slowly and inevitably blows up on its own, but that may not be for decades.
2013-07-01 07:59:32 PM
3 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.


Why yes, his points are quite easy to rebut if you simply strike them out and ignore everything he wrote.
Truly, you have a stunningly effect debate style.  You, good sir, have convinced me!

Convinced me your a farking moron, that is.
2013-07-01 07:56:00 PM
3 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally


I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.
2013-07-01 05:36:11 PM
3 votes:
If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that
2013-07-01 11:50:19 PM
2 votes:

Zeppelininthesky: I hope you like $5.00 tomatoes and $7.00 oranges.


I hate to break this to you, but you're paying $5 for tomatoes and $7 for oranges already, just in the form of social services that illegals are using up.  You pay in your property taxes, your federal income tax in SNAP benefits and when you use the ER or your health insurance.

If you're a disabled veteran, or a natural-born American who is down on their luck and actually needs a helping hand, I feel bad for you - you now have 11-20M people who are competing for resources right along side you.

If 11 million people just decided to stop paying taxes, the IRS would be all over them
If 11 million people decided to convert their AR-15s to select-fire, the ATF would be all over them
If 11 million people decided they didn't want to buy health insurance, the HHS would be all over them
but 11 million illegals?  Thats way too many people!  What are we gonna do?

Infernalist: If I'm selling you stuff and bob decides to not buy stuff from me and instead gives his money to someone else who isn't buying stuff from me....I don't actually lose anything.


You dont - but if that person isn't buying anything, you dont need as many people to work in your store or produce your widgets.

sendtodave: Things have always been difficult for people wanting to immigrate to the US, so by gum, they should always be difficult!


It should be easy.
Criteria should be at least a HS equivalency, a basic English test, a job, 5 years of no criminal history and NO violent crime at all. Fast track for those who have college degrees, or start a business and hire n employees in a certain time period.  I should take no more than 5 years, or 2-3 for those who meet fast-track criteria for full citizenship.

For the people who are here, have a job or are in school, are 5-years crime free with no violent offenses and are not on public assistance, your time starts now.  If you dont have a job, you have 6 months to find one. If you have a criminal history, come back when its been 5 years.

I dont care that my Neighbor might be brown - I just want my neighbor to be an American
2013-07-01 07:01:51 PM
2 votes:
Good, good! Continue tearing yourselves to pieces, GOP. I'm enjoying the show.
2013-07-02 09:53:50 AM
1 votes:

johnnyrocket: SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that

Exactly, I do not understand the conventional wisdom on this issue. The Republicans are against giving a pass to people who break the law.


Unless of course they are 1) defense contractors; 2) hedge fund managers; 3) bank presidents and/or 4)former congressmen or staffers.

Mexicans have a wealth of other reasons to not vote Republican.
2013-07-02 01:17:18 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: I never moved the goalposts.


You mean moving from SNAP and now to air and water?  Do you believe illegals are stealing your precious bodily fluids too?

o5iiawah: You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it. To use your arguments against you is satisfying.


You've sure kicked that straw man's ass on things I've never said.

o5iiawah:  And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.

So they are paying federal taxes then.
2013-07-02 01:11:05 AM
1 votes:
o5iiawah:

And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.

And it looks like you received it quick enough.
2013-07-02 01:10:36 AM
1 votes:

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.

What you going 100 rounds might look like.

[phillips.blogs.com image 506x378]


No.

What 100 rounds of o5iiawwwwwaaaaaahhhh might look like:
3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-07-02 01:10:21 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: I never moved the goalposts. That was my argument to begin with. By simply existing in this country, you use government services and you ought to pay for them. You enjoy a life free of invasion because we have police and military. If you're accused of a crime, you get a fair day in court and an attorney. Chances are, your kid's school got a department of education grant to buy books or hire teachers to teach a nationally-focused curriculum. Even if you dont have a kid in school, you benefit from an educated society.

You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it. To use your arguments against you is satisfying.


So why bother lying about SNAP if this was your initial talking point?
2013-07-02 01:07:54 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: When I point out that an illegal immigrant who pays no taxes enjoys all those things, he then gets uppity about all of the supposed programs that illegals dont technically qualify for even though anyone with 10 seconds to do a google search finds out they can access quite easily.


Actually it took me 10 seconds to find the source that proved you wrong.  However it took you four separate posts to make yourself look like a fool for reading it incorrectly.
2013-07-02 01:03:55 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.


What you going 100 rounds might look like.

phillips.blogs.com
2013-07-02 12:59:45 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: One doesnt need to sign up for a specific welfare program to enjoy all of the public benefits of clean air, water and military protection.


Oh for fark's sake you've moved the goal posts to the moon!  Bbbbbbbut they're stealing our precious air and water!!!1111

o5iiawah: The USDA only requires one person in the household be eligible and even that can be fudged pretty easily.


So now we've back-peddled on how illegals are eligible for SNAP.  Well OK then.

So now you're linking an article that an unspecified amount of people who might be illegal are using the emergency room?  Doesn't back up your original claim on huge increases in the price of produce but I guess that's something.  Perhaps then finding a path for citizenship for them would allow them to pay more taxes.

o5iiawah: Again, I ask you to explain how someone without an SS # or green card can legally work and pay federal income taxes.


Someone already pointed this out above that if they're using fraudulent SS# then their taxes are being taken out by the employer for services they'll never receive.
2013-07-02 12:51:36 AM
1 votes:

Fart_Machine: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.

[www.democracia.org image 696x580]

Well except for these folks but they hated Castro so it was OK.


Bears repeating.

If Mexico was a communist dictatorship, the Republicans would be welcoming refugees with open arms...just to stick it to Communism.
2013-07-02 12:50:31 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Bonzo_1116: How about starting the enforcement crusade there where the crime is rampant and widespread, instead of on the vanishingly small number of illegals who use bogus ID for things like SNAP.  The vast majority of illegals try to have as little interaction with the government as humanly possible, as it's the easiest way to get your ass caught and tossed back over the fence.

Yeah, I only called for enforcement of that upstream.

Welcome to the party, Pal.


A ten-post tirade on illegals getting SNAP doesn't sound like employment enforcement to me.

Illegals getting SNAP is just a fart in the wind compared to the theft being perpetrated by American businesses.  At least the kids get government cheese with SNAP.
2013-07-02 12:48:30 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.

The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.

Seriously come back when you have better.


Don't you feel bad that this is what your life has come to?  Blatantly lying and trolling on the internet?  And not even doing it competently?
2013-07-02 12:39:05 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.


You didn't scroll to the stop of that link huh? Let me make it easy to read for you.

SNAP (Food Stamps): Facts, Myths and Realities

It's saying that undocumented immigrants using SNAP is a myth.
2013-07-02 12:38:46 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: You found a small nugget or information or talking point you thought made your argument when as it turns out, your source agrees with me that there needs to be tougher enforcement of illegal immigrants who are caught on the program.


/facepalm

It's like a double-down of fail.
2013-07-02 12:37:28 AM
1 votes:

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on. unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.

You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.


Reading doesn't seem to be his strongsuit.

Which is so funny since he's criticizing us for not reading the sources.
2013-07-02 12:35:24 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Good god, do you even read the crap you post?

Citizenship Requirements

We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP.


So the fact that they're ineligible for SNAP is proof that illegal immigrants are using SNAP?
2013-07-02 12:35:23 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on. unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.


You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.
2013-07-02 12:32:37 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: So please explain how someone without a social security card, who is not here in any sort of official status or has no legal right to work here pays federal income tax.


You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.

o5iiawah:
and you are the one suggesting there's some racial element to this conversation. Again- someone says something you arent smart enough to argue against, so you call them racist.

Could you provide a quote were I said you were a racist?  Do you like making shait up?
2013-07-02 12:24:31 AM
1 votes:

Lackofname: You are so full of shiat that your eyes must be brown. I'm on SNAP. To sign up, you need proof of citizenship, a social security number, the works.


This official list of criteria from USDA.gov is going to make you feel stupid.

"You need not divulge your immigration status to qualify"

That moment.  When you realize you arent as smart as you think you are.  is it enlightening or sad for you?

Fart_Machine: You must be wrong. The re:re:re:re e-mail he got told him otherwise.


yeah, or the USDA website.
2013-07-02 12:23:04 AM
1 votes:
2013-07-02 12:17:52 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: No you might want to provide an actual citation apart from anecdotal evidence you got from some nativist hack site.

If you need me to explain that illegal immigrants dont contribute to the federal tax base yet are allowed to draw benefits off the tax base, you're playing in the wrong sandbox. No surprise - you show yourself pretty incapable of grasping simple crap like this more often than not.  Pejoratives and race-hustling are all you have.


Wait, you're accusing me of race-hustling and pejoratives when you call people morons and say that illegals are living off the federal dole without offering any real citation to back up your accusations?  Typical.
2013-07-02 12:10:09 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Good god, do I really have to explain this to you?


No you might want to provide an actual citation apart from anecdotal evidence you got from some nativist hack site.
2013-07-01 11:45:42 PM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: The one thing that is usually missing from these debates, are questions about what to do with employers.


Thing is, no one is interested in cracking down on those employers. Those employers' businesses are set up to depend on illegals, and many of those businesses are quite large (see agro businesses), and I'd bet you a dollar that most of those illegal-exploitation businesses Vote Republican.

Fining businesses that hire illegals is just like fining banks: no one wants to do it be cause lazy/corrupt/slap on the wrist.
2013-07-01 11:23:18 PM
1 votes:
Nadie_AZ:

I've been saying this for years. Nobody listens.

But but won't someone think of the Corruption???? What will poor Corruption do if we go trying to fix things???
2013-07-01 11:09:36 PM
1 votes:

SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.


Do you actually know any people who are supposedly "hispanic"?

First of all, that's a bullshiat term.  They're white just like me.  Secondly the ones who have ancestors from Mexico or other Spanish speaking nations actually are proud that they immigrated legally and don't appreciate people sneaking over the border.

Of course, that cannot be applied to all so-called "hispanics", but many of them do feel that way and many do vote republican.

Don't make the mistake of lumping all "hispanics" together.
2013-07-01 10:44:54 PM
1 votes:

sendtodave: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.

Slap.  In.  The.  Face.

Things have always been difficult for people wanting to immigrate to the US, so by gum, they should always be difficult!


Yeah, great... Except they haven't always been so difficult.
2013-07-01 10:07:49 PM
1 votes:
Karac:
I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

Can the white guilt shiat, it's annoying.
Are white countries allowed to have laws about immigration or not? Are they allowed to have sovereignty?
2013-07-01 10:06:23 PM
1 votes:

1derful: I can't find the logic of rewarding anyone with citizenship for breaking a country's laws to get there.


It also helps if you read the article before calling other people illiterate.

The Senate bill would provide a long and difficult pathway to citizenship for those living in the country illegally

Yup, sounds like they're totally rewarding them with freebie citizenship!
2013-07-01 10:04:49 PM
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: Almost Everybody Poops: cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.

Ahhh so that makes it okay to break the law.  You know how hard it is to commit murder in the US legally?  The system for legal murder is way, way, beyond just broken.

You know it isn't a crime to be undocumented in the US, right?


It's a misdemeanor, iirc.
2013-07-01 09:44:42 PM
1 votes:

skilbride: I mean, this year 3 to 5 billion will go to El Savador in the form of remittance. That is 15% of their entire GDP - made up of money that is earned here - it doesn't improve their country - and it doesn't come back and improve here.


That doesn't make any sense.  If there's money coming into the economy, it doesn't matter where it's earned: it improves the economy.  In Chihuahua, in Mexico, guys who work in kitchen here in the US (especially on the east coast) are buying land and building houses for their families.  They're investing the money they make here in real estate, which stablizes land costs, and they're hiring local workers to build these houses, which inject money into the local economy.
2013-07-01 09:02:41 PM
1 votes:
It seems that many of the immigrants I've met, even ones here illegally, are exactly the type of citizens we should want.

My ex's parents came here illegally prior to Reagan's amnesty. When it's time to vote here in California, they sit down and actually read the full text of each proposition, actually study them intensely with each other and decipher exactly what the law will do. They don't cast their votes based on slogans they've heard or adverts they've seen.

I know lots of immigrants, and this is actually fairly typical for the ones that managed citizenship - they are more likely to contribute to their community than the the typically entitled American, me included, and they do it in a thoughtful manner. These really are the people we want.
2013-07-01 08:58:08 PM
1 votes:
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee said Sunday that any attempt at comprehensive immigration legislation cannot offer a "special pathway to citizenship" for those in the United States illegally. That approach could block the GOP's hopes of ever winning the White House, the top Democrat in the House predicted.

Not that that disturbs me, but what does disturb me is framing this in the context of politicians' chances of getting reelected. Can we, just for once, start looking at objective ways in which legislation will affect our country (and Congressional constituents) as a whole, without hyperbole?
2013-07-01 08:56:19 PM
1 votes:
For what it's worth, my dissertation ended by saying the solution to immigration problems in the United States was not anything the government has come up with - it's to provide aid to the countries that cause the biggest problem and make their governments and economies solvent enough that people won't want to come here - and will still purchase from our countries and allow us to export our businesses there. :-P
2013-07-01 08:51:05 PM
1 votes:

firefly212: Sending their money back home keeps demand high for the dollar and helps stabilize our currency overall... as someone who enjoys more spending power, I'd say that's a good thing. If you want to be poor, that's cool, but don't codify that for the rest of us.


That's untrue.  Sending money to a country who's currency is worthless doesn't improve our standing.  And more to the point, to those of you who say, "it's always been like this..."

"A report released yesterday by the Inter-American Development Bank estimates that immigrants living in the United States will send $45 billion to family members this year, representing a steady increase from about $2 billion in 1980. .... nearly 90 percent of immigrants living in the District, Maryland and Virginia regularly send money to their home countries, totaling an estimated $2.2 billion this year. World Bank researchers, who will release a report later this month, found that the overall impact of remittances on Latin American economies is modest at best. For every one percent increase in the share of remittances to a country's gross domestic product, the fraction of the population living in poverty is reduced by about 0.4 percent. "  (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR 2006 101801756.html)

That is 2.2 billion that could be circulating back in DC - paying for roads, families who need assistance here, or something of that nature.  Also, that money being sent back doesn't even improve their family's at home status - because the nation doesn't have the infrastructure to make improvements.

I mean, this year 3 to 5 billion will go to El Savador in the form of remittance.  That is 15% of their entire GDP - made up of money that is earned here - it doesn't improve their country - and it doesn't come back and improve here.
2013-07-01 08:44:46 PM
1 votes:

SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that


ts2.mm.bing.net
They knew what they were getting into. I say let em crash.
2013-07-01 08:40:36 PM
1 votes:

Fart_Machine: 1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law?

I certainly hope you're not one of those people who biatch that illegals aren't paying enough in taxes or getting paid under the table.


I certainly hope you don't boast of being overly literate.


Illegal immigrants that work and live here must necessarily contribute in taxes in one way or the other. Millions of them contribute to society positively, and that's why resident visas should be given out, still I can't find the logic of rewarding anyone with citizenship for breaking a country's laws to get there.
 People in Europe have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get into the U.S., but since the assumption is that they're all white, you don't see many or the pathway to citizenship crowd shedding a tear over them.
2013-07-01 08:38:56 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Also, I'd love to see your explanation as to why it's a bad thing if I decide to send my cousins some extra cash for the holidays.


I think you're missing the point.  I'm not talking about people sending extra cash back to their families, or people who buy a second home in their country.  I'm not talking about people who invest in this country and also in their home country.

I'm talking about people who come here, live in the cheapest possible housing situation, and then send every cent they have besides that back to their home country to entirely support their family.

See this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigra nt s-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

120 billion from the US that's accounted for.  (And the World Bank even admits that number is low because of how easy it is to send cash.)  We are the largest exporter or not only aide from our federal government, but also from people sending money back home.  That's a serious dent.
2013-07-01 08:26:35 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?


I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.
2013-07-01 08:16:04 PM
1 votes:

Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally

I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.


I'm not sure why you're so focused on the Mexican.  There are lots of illegal immigrants that are here that aren't Mexican.  They aren't even Hispanic.

I did my dissertation on illegal immigration, and while I argue against the "they don't pay taxes" (because if you know a place they buy tax free milk, you should let me know so I can get it) there is something fundamentally wrong with the fact that the vast majority of them take their money they make here and send it back home to care for the ones they left behind.   It's not a large amount for an individual, but you think about how many individuals there are doing it - and you suddenly see a large problem that isn't being addressed at all.

Is the answer to this giving them amnesty?  Definitely not.  But I do believe that it is something that needs to be addressed - and talked about - even though it's unpopular to do so.  A nation only survives if we re-invest in it - and if these immigrants are not doing so - and are instead investing in their nation - then our nation will flounder when there becomes more of them then there is of citizens.
2013-07-01 08:01:33 PM
1 votes:
farm3.static.flickr.com

Are you sure about that, GOP?
2013-07-01 08:00:15 PM
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.


www.democracia.org

Well except for these folks but they hated Castro so it was OK.
2013-07-01 07:49:35 PM
1 votes:
Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law? Even without "reform" U.S. treats its immigrants much better than Mexico does. A work visa program would be fair to people who want to contribute to society, but granting citizenship is simply rewarding people for breaking the law.
2013-07-01 07:47:33 PM
1 votes:
The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

You know, the fact that it can take decades to immigrate might just be indicative of the problem we have with illegal immigration.  It could very well even be the cause.
2013-07-01 07:45:32 PM
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.


That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.
2013-07-01 07:42:32 PM
1 votes:
Get ready for another five million to cross the border when they find out they will get amnesty if they can crash the border and make it here before we build this fence that is supposedly being funded.
2013-07-01 07:39:03 PM
1 votes:
My ancestors came here legally as stowaways and lied their way to citizenship.  Therefore everyone else needs to play by the rules, ok?
2013-07-01 07:33:43 PM
1 votes:

machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.


A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!
2013-07-01 07:26:25 PM
1 votes:

Soup4Bonnie: Let's see, Ryan was the House's numbers guy for the budget proposals.   I wonder who they'll get for immigration.  Gohmert? Poe?

Whatever happens, you can bet a ton of money is going to border defense and absolutely no path to citizenship will be in this "reform" bill for the House.  Another waste of farking time.


Oh come on, the INS will get a boost, and so will local jails, who will be reimbursed. Well, possibly be reimbursed. Actually, they may have to foot the cost, and then apply for aid from the State, who will then beg and borrow from the Fed, and the cycle of "Who pays for it?" Bingo will continue, but somewhere, there are middlemen smiling broadly...
2013-07-01 07:17:06 PM
1 votes:
As a liberal, who volunteered for Obama re-election, I can actually to that.

If you came to this country illegally, you are going to live here, finding and deporting costs too much. Rather, keeping you here and taxing you makes better sense.

At the same time, you shouldn't be on the same boat as the legal ones.

/I know, I know nation of immigrants and stuff, but there was no law back then, and US citizenship is something special.
2013-07-01 06:54:14 PM
1 votes:
So the Republicans have thrown in their lot with Rejectionism. The Senate bill will not get a vote in the House, and no House bill has a snowball's chance in the Senate.

This is clearly Obama's fault.
2013-07-01 06:50:54 PM
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.

Very black and white reactionary thinking. Yes.

These are easy answers that fit on bumper stickers and are great for quips and comebacks. Awful awful for governing.


And if/when someone complains or fights against such heavy handed authoritarian thinking, the GOP screams bloody murder, claims that 'libruls don't fight fair' and then cheats like a bunch of mofos to get their way.  any protest - ANY objection, no matter how reasonable or well considered, is considered a direct personal attack by each and every republican in the hierarchy.  at the same time, protesters are also considered laughable, weak and dismissed as having bought their ipads from mommy and daddy and are to be given a cookie and sent home with a firm push on the shoulder.
2013-07-01 06:43:52 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


Very black and white reactionary thinking. Yes.

These are easy answers that fit on bumper stickers and are great for quips and comebacks. Awful awful for governing.
2013-07-01 06:40:28 PM
1 votes:
I don't see why the GOP doesn't do what Saint Reagan did back in 1986.
2013-07-01 06:36:26 PM
1 votes:
The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.
 
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