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(Yahoo)   U.S. House says, be proud, there is nothing wrong with Mexican citizenship   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 227
    More: Spiffy, U.S. House, Goodlatte, John McCain, House Judiciary Committee, Chuck Schumer, Boehner, Luis Gutierrez, Nancy Pelosi  
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4900 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jul 2013 at 6:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-02 12:24:31 AM  

Lackofname: You are so full of shiat that your eyes must be brown. I'm on SNAP. To sign up, you need proof of citizenship, a social security number, the works.


This official list of criteria from USDA.gov is going to make you feel stupid.

"You need not divulge your immigration status to qualify"

That moment.  When you realize you arent as smart as you think you are.  is it enlightening or sad for you?

Fart_Machine: You must be wrong. The re:re:re:re e-mail he got told him otherwise.


yeah, or the USDA website.
 
2013-07-02 12:26:53 AM  

Fart_Machine: Wait, you're accusing me of race-hustling and pejoratives when you call people morons and say that illegals are living off the federal dole


So please explain how someone without a social security card, who is not here in any sort of official status or has no legal right to work here pays federal income tax.

and you are the one suggesting there's some racial element to this conversation. Again- someone says something you arent smart enough to argue against, so you call them racist.
 
2013-07-02 12:28:28 AM  

o5iiawah: yeah, or the USDA website.


Scroll up buttercup.
 
2013-07-02 12:28:36 AM  
if i were not from this country (like my great grandfather was), i know i would try to become a citizen, even at the cost of the ridicule and the intolerance which abounds.
 
2013-07-02 12:30:06 AM  
GoPAsshole#1: We have a problem. Our base, old white Christian people, are dropping like flies. The more we cater to them, the more it pisses off the browns and blacks. We can't win nationally now, and it is only going to get worse.

Aide: The Democrats bill provides a path for citizenship!

GoPAsshole#2: Crap! The new voters that create are overwhelmingly going to vote Democrat! So while we will be losing voters, what with all the old farks dying, they will be picking up voters.

GoPAsshole#1: Bah, thanks to gerrymandering that can't happen unless we OK it, and we wont.

GoPAsshole#2: I kinda think a path to citizenship might help us in that it would....

GoPAsshole#1: SHUT YOUR GODDAMN PIE HOLE! If you even THINK about siding against us we will have a TeaParty primary you faster than you can say "Sarah Palin"! No, we will just dig out heels in. Those goddamn illegals are going to get citizenship.

GoPAsshole#2: So, we just preserve the status quo where we hold a disadvantage in votes and that gap just gets wider as old folks die?

GoPAsshole#1: A flawless plan, right!
 
2013-07-02 12:31:43 AM  

Fart_Machine: Since you're not going to provide a citation I'll just do it myself.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP. Additionally, there is already a strict waiting period for documented immigrants. Documented adult immigrants (those with a greencard) are subject to a five-year waiting period before they are eligible for SNAP.

Noncitizens make up a very small portion of SNAP participants - only 4% of participants are noncitizens (documented immigrants or refugees).[xxxii]

So once again you're full of it.


Good god, do you even read the crap you post?

Citizenship Requirements

We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP.


Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP.



Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on.  unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.
 
2013-07-02 12:32:26 AM  

Jumbled: if i were not from this country (like my great grandfather was), i know i would try to become a citizen, even at the cost of the ridicule and the intolerance which abounds.


So you're another shiftless, lazy mexican trying to steal my JOB? 
/Go back to Africa, dirty librul hippie.
 
2013-07-02 12:32:37 AM  

o5iiawah: So please explain how someone without a social security card, who is not here in any sort of official status or has no legal right to work here pays federal income tax.


You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.

o5iiawah:
and you are the one suggesting there's some racial element to this conversation. Again- someone says something you arent smart enough to argue against, so you call them racist.

Could you provide a quote were I said you were a racist?  Do you like making shait up?
 
2013-07-02 12:33:52 AM  
I'll say it again:  California really is like an amazing little microcosm of the whole US, just twenty years ahead of time.

CA gave you Nixon, and Reagan, and then slowly slid towards blue as the GOP alienated every constituency imaginable (through moves like Prop 187) except the deep, rural red farming areas, until there simply wasn't enough votes left to remain in power through any legitimate means.  They lost the support of big business, who increasingly grew up in deep blue cultural pockets like Silicon Valley, and had no taste for the social conservatism of years before.  Meanwhile, the state went into complete gridlock for nearly two decades as deep gerrymandering on both sides sent people to Sacramento who's only claim to governance were their oaths to never compromise, and supermajorities (which neither had) became necessary to raise spending or cut taxes.  Meanwhile a mini-industry of hyper-partisan shock jocks sprang up to ride the outrage machine to fame and fortune while secretly cheering on the total dysfunction.

Sound familiar?   The state slowly slid out of financial control due to complete paralysis until the GOP demographics became so weak, a popular referendum finally wiped out gerrymandered districts and the state swung almost instantly to Democratic supermajorities in both houses.  Now that folks can actually govern again, and the economy is picking up on its own, Democrats get to take credit for the entire rebound and elimination of the deficit, even if that's not entirely fair, further cementing their lead.  It's hard to imagine how Republicans can possibly ever compete here again -- at least until the one-party system slowly and inevitably blows up on its own, but that may not be for decades.
 
2013-07-02 12:34:31 AM  

Fart_Machine: Scroll up buttercup.


I was too busy actually reading the source you posted since its obvious you didnt.  You found a small nugget or information or talking point you thought made your argument when as it turns out, your source agrees with me that there needs to be tougher enforcement of illegal immigrants who are caught on the program.

But your and your retard crew says it cant happen so that must be true.

Now, are you going to explain to me how someone without a SS#, or green card can legally work a job and pay federal income tax or are we done here?
 
2013-07-02 12:35:23 AM  

o5iiawah: Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on. unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.


You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.
 
2013-07-02 12:35:24 AM  

o5iiawah: Good god, do you even read the crap you post?

Citizenship Requirements

We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP.


So the fact that they're ineligible for SNAP is proof that illegal immigrants are using SNAP?
 
2013-07-02 12:36:32 AM  

Fart_Machine: You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.


The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.

Seriously come back when you have better.
 
2013-07-02 12:37:10 AM  

jaerik: I'll say it again:  California really is like an amazing little microcosm of the whole US, just twenty years ahead of time.

CA gave you Nixon, and Reagan, and then slowly slid towards blue as the GOP alienated every constituency imaginable (through moves like Prop 187) except the deep, rural red farming areas, until there simply wasn't enough votes left to remain in power through any legitimate means.  They lost the support of big business, who increasingly grew up in deep blue cultural pockets like Silicon Valley, and had no taste for the social conservatism of years before.  Meanwhile, the state went into complete gridlock for nearly two decades as deep gerrymandering on both sides sent people to Sacramento who's only claim to governance were their oaths to never compromise, and supermajorities (which neither had) became necessary to raise spending or cut taxes.  Meanwhile a mini-industry of hyper-partisan shock jocks sprang up to ride the outrage machine to fame and fortune while secretly cheering on the total dysfunction.

Sound familiar?   The state slowly slid out of financial control due to complete paralysis until the GOP demographics became so weak, a popular referendum finally wiped out gerrymandered districts and the state swung almost instantly to Democratic supermajorities in both houses.  Now that folks can actually govern again, and the economy is picking up on its own, Democrats get to take credit for the entire rebound and elimination of the deficit, even if that's not entirely fair, further cementing their lead.  It's hard to imagine how Republicans can possibly ever compete here again -- at least until the one-party system slowly and inevitably blows up on its own, but that may not be for decades.


Nope, the Terminator single-handedly saved Caeeforneea from the hippies. I saw it on Fox News, so it's true.

/Good post, though.
 
2013-07-02 12:37:28 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on. unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.

You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.


Reading doesn't seem to be his strongsuit.

Which is so funny since he's criticizing us for not reading the sources.
 
2013-07-02 12:38:46 AM  

o5iiawah: You found a small nugget or information or talking point you thought made your argument when as it turns out, your source agrees with me that there needs to be tougher enforcement of illegal immigrants who are caught on the program.


/facepalm

It's like a double-down of fail.
 
2013-07-02 12:38:47 AM  

Mrtraveler01: o5iiawah: Good god, do you even read the crap you post?

Citizenship Requirements

We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP.

So the fact that they're ineligible for SNAP is proof that illegal immigrants are using SNAP?


Oblig
 
2013-07-02 12:39:05 AM  

o5iiawah: The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.


You didn't scroll to the stop of that link huh? Let me make it easy to read for you.

SNAP (Food Stamps): Facts, Myths and Realities

It's saying that undocumented immigrants using SNAP is a myth.
 
2013-07-02 12:40:19 AM  
i474.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-02 12:40:23 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: You found a small nugget or information or talking point you thought made your argument when as it turns out, your source agrees with me that there needs to be tougher enforcement of illegal immigrants who are caught on the program.

/facepalm

It's like a double-down of fail.


This is pretty entertaining. I'm thinking of making some popcorn for the occasion.
 
2013-07-02 12:44:21 AM  

o5iiawah: Now, are you going to explain to me how someone without a SS#, or green card can legally work a job and pay federal income tax or are we done here?


They're ILLEGALLY working those jobs. The illegal or his shifty-ass lawbreaking employer or labor broker gives him a bogus SSN to cram through the paperwork.  Then the taxes withheld get sucked into the IRS and social security vortex never to be seen again by the guy using the bogus SSN.

  How about starting the enforcement crusade there where the crime is rampant and widespread, instead of on the vanishingly small number of illegals who use bogus ID for things like SNAP.  The vast majority of illegals try to have as little interaction with the government as humanly possible, as it's the easiest way to get your ass caught and tossed back over the fence.

/You know how to find the illegals on California's freeways?  They're the only ones not breaking the law.
 
2013-07-02 12:45:15 AM  

Fart_Machine: You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.


One doesnt need to sign up for a specific welfare program to enjoy all of the public benefits of clean air, water and military protection.  Again, I ask you to explain how someone without an SS # or green card can legally work and pay federal income taxes.

Fart_Machine: You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.


The USDA only requires one person in the household be eligible and even that can be fudged pretty easily.

You were asking about federal programs that illegals can access?
 
2013-07-02 12:45:49 AM  
So you're another shiftless, lazy mexican trying to steal my JOB? 
/Go back to Africa, dirty librul hippie.


don't get all ruffled just because i took some low-paying job you didn't want anyway...
 
2013-07-02 12:46:23 AM  

Bonzo_1116: How about starting the enforcement crusade there where the crime is rampant and widespread, instead of on the vanishingly small number of illegals who use bogus ID for things like SNAP.  The vast majority of illegals try to have as little interaction with the government as humanly possible, as it's the easiest way to get your ass caught and tossed back over the fence.


Yeah, I only called for enforcement of that upstream.

Welcome to the party, Pal.
 
2013-07-02 12:48:30 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.

The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.

Seriously come back when you have better.


Don't you feel bad that this is what your life has come to?  Blatantly lying and trolling on the internet?  And not even doing it competently?
 
2013-07-02 12:48:34 AM  

Mrtraveler01: It's saying that undocumented immigrants using SNAP is a myth.


And the direct source I posted upstream says otherwise.

Why is the USDA encouraging Mexicans to apply for the program with "No proof of immigrant status" required?
 
2013-07-02 12:48:53 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.


Watching Republicans pretend to care about the feelings of legal immigrants would be amusing if it wasn't so painful. Hey, if you're so concerned about not slapping them in the face, why did we have to sue to stop "Sheriff Joe" from stopping all Hispanics and demanding proof of citizenship? You don't think that was a slap in the face to all those who have played by the rules?
 
2013-07-02 12:50:31 AM  

o5iiawah: Bonzo_1116: How about starting the enforcement crusade there where the crime is rampant and widespread, instead of on the vanishingly small number of illegals who use bogus ID for things like SNAP.  The vast majority of illegals try to have as little interaction with the government as humanly possible, as it's the easiest way to get your ass caught and tossed back over the fence.

Yeah, I only called for enforcement of that upstream.

Welcome to the party, Pal.


A ten-post tirade on illegals getting SNAP doesn't sound like employment enforcement to me.

Illegals getting SNAP is just a fart in the wind compared to the theft being perpetrated by American businesses.  At least the kids get government cheese with SNAP.
 
2013-07-02 12:51:36 AM  

Fart_Machine: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.

[www.democracia.org image 696x580]

Well except for these folks but they hated Castro so it was OK.


Bears repeating.

If Mexico was a communist dictatorship, the Republicans would be welcoming refugees with open arms...just to stick it to Communism.
 
2013-07-02 12:53:48 AM  

o5iiawah: Mrtraveler01: It's saying that undocumented immigrants using SNAP is a myth.

And the direct source I posted upstream says otherwise.

Why is the USDA encouraging Mexicans to apply for the program with "No proof of immigrant status" required?


Yeah it would've been nice if there was an English translation to that document.

Hard for me to get outraged if I can even understand what the document is saying.

Guess I can't count Judicial Watch for adding context to anything, just as long as I get outraged I suppose.
 
2013-07-02 12:59:45 AM  

o5iiawah: One doesnt need to sign up for a specific welfare program to enjoy all of the public benefits of clean air, water and military protection.


Oh for fark's sake you've moved the goal posts to the moon!  Bbbbbbbut they're stealing our precious air and water!!!1111

o5iiawah: The USDA only requires one person in the household be eligible and even that can be fudged pretty easily.


So now we've back-peddled on how illegals are eligible for SNAP.  Well OK then.

So now you're linking an article that an unspecified amount of people who might be illegal are using the emergency room?  Doesn't back up your original claim on huge increases in the price of produce but I guess that's something.  Perhaps then finding a path for citizenship for them would allow them to pay more taxes.

o5iiawah: Again, I ask you to explain how someone without an SS # or green card can legally work and pay federal income taxes.


Someone already pointed this out above that if they're using fraudulent SS# then their taxes are being taken out by the employer for services they'll never receive.
 
2013-07-02 01:00:11 AM  

Bonzo_1116: A ten-post tirade on illegals getting SNAP doesn't sound like employment enforcement to me.


Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.  When I point out that an illegal immigrant who pays no taxes enjoys all those things, he then gets uppity about all of the supposed programs that illegals dont technically qualify for even though anyone with 10 seconds to do a google search finds out they can access quite easily.

Food stamps aside.  Is an illegal immigrant contributing to the funding of the military? the department of education? the EPA that gives them clean water to drink?  If not, you are and you are paying for the services required for their needs as well.

This is why you're already paying $5 for an orange.
 
2013-07-02 01:02:38 AM  
This turned into a SNAP flamewar?  Seriously?  Let's debate who should have access to program that feeds people? I don't believe any of you are serious.  This is an exercise for some class, right?
 
2013-07-02 01:03:55 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.


What you going 100 rounds might look like.

phillips.blogs.com
 
2013-07-02 01:07:54 AM  

o5iiawah: When I point out that an illegal immigrant who pays no taxes enjoys all those things, he then gets uppity about all of the supposed programs that illegals dont technically qualify for even though anyone with 10 seconds to do a google search finds out they can access quite easily.


Actually it took me 10 seconds to find the source that proved you wrong.  However it took you four separate posts to make yourself look like a fool for reading it incorrectly.
 
2013-07-02 01:08:15 AM  
o5iiawah:

This is why you're already paying $5 for an orange.
 Are you talking about Bohner here? 5 dollar oranges? Where, the moon?
 
2013-07-02 01:09:03 AM  

Fart_Machine: Oh for fark's sake you've moved the goal posts to the moon!  Bbbbbbbut they're stealing our precious air and water!!!1111


I never moved the goalposts. That was my argument to begin with.  By simply existing in this country, you use government services and you ought to pay for them.  You enjoy a life free of invasion because we have police and military. If you're accused of a crime, you get a fair day in court and an attorney.  Chances are, your kid's school got a department of education grant to buy books or hire teachers to teach a nationally-focused curriculum.  Even if you dont have a kid in school, you benefit from an educated society.

You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it.  To use your arguments against you is satisfying.

Fart_Machine: Someone already pointed this out above that if they're using fraudulent SS# then their taxes are being taken out by the employer for services they'll never receive.


And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.
 
2013-07-02 01:10:21 AM  

o5iiawah: I never moved the goalposts. That was my argument to begin with. By simply existing in this country, you use government services and you ought to pay for them. You enjoy a life free of invasion because we have police and military. If you're accused of a crime, you get a fair day in court and an attorney. Chances are, your kid's school got a department of education grant to buy books or hire teachers to teach a nationally-focused curriculum. Even if you dont have a kid in school, you benefit from an educated society.

You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it. To use your arguments against you is satisfying.


So why bother lying about SNAP if this was your initial talking point?
 
2013-07-02 01:10:22 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: Let's debate who should have access to program that feeds people?


Never the debate.  If we have the program, wonderful. Lets create a logical path so that those who access it also contribute to it.
 
2013-07-02 01:10:36 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.

What you going 100 rounds might look like.

[phillips.blogs.com image 506x378]


No.

What 100 rounds of o5iiawwwwwaaaaaahhhh might look like:
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-02 01:11:05 AM  
o5iiawah:

And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.

And it looks like you received it quick enough.
 
2013-07-02 01:14:07 AM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


wait...what punishment are you talking about?  Giving them a green card is a punishment now?  1st world problems indeed.
 
2013-07-02 01:17:18 AM  

o5iiawah: I never moved the goalposts.


You mean moving from SNAP and now to air and water?  Do you believe illegals are stealing your precious bodily fluids too?

o5iiawah: You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it. To use your arguments against you is satisfying.


You've sure kicked that straw man's ass on things I've never said.

o5iiawah:  And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.

So they are paying federal taxes then.
 
2013-07-02 01:17:23 AM  

Mrtraveler01: So why bother lying about SNAP if this was your initial talking point?


I wasn't lying.  There are illegal immigrants that manage to access the program in the same way that employers provide false SS numbers to make their employee books look legitimate.
Illegal immigrants can also access SNAP if they live in a household with someone who is eligible
the USDA is also marketing the program to Mexican nationals with the caveat that immigration status is not considered.

I made it along with several other points that Fart_machine chooses to ignore.  When he cant answer me, he just plays the strawman card even though I am pretty convinced he isn't actually sure what that means in the first place.

Then I post (Again) that one doesn't have to draw on a specific benefit program to enjoy the protections and security of being the United States and that those protections and systems of laws are not free and he posted some crap about immigrants stealing clean air.  He'll be in the next 1%er thread pounding for higher taxes because without them, we'd all choke to death on coal plan pollution.

So yes, there's a cost to getting your cheap produce. That cost comes from subsidizing the services required of the people who live here and dont contribute to the federal tax coffers
 
2013-07-02 01:17:34 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: This turned into a SNAP flamewar?  Seriously?  Let's debate who should have access to program that feeds people? I don't believe any of you are serious.  This is an exercise for some class, right?


These are folks who defend to the death a business' right to hire the illegal workers that they scream they want to deport. Class left the building some time ago.
 
2013-07-02 01:23:21 AM  

Fart_Machine: So they are paying federal taxes then


They cant actually file taxes.
Their employer is "paying" taxes under false SS numbers, usually under-reporting wages and hours.
They dont pay into social security


So yeah, they arent paying Federal income taxes.
Are you done yet?

Fart_Machine: and now to air and water?  Do you believe illegals are stealing your precious bodily fluids too?


Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts.  All of that stuff costs money does it not?
 
2013-07-02 01:26:21 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: So they are paying federal taxes then

They cant actually file taxes.
Their employer is "paying" taxes under false SS numbers, usually under-reporting wages and hours.
They dont pay into social security


So yeah, they arent paying Federal income taxes.
Are you done yet?

Fart_Machine: and now to air and water?  Do you believe illegals are stealing your precious bodily fluids too?

Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts.  All of that stuff costs money does it not?


media.tumblr.com

They don't pay bills in Russia,.
 
2013-07-02 01:30:05 AM  

o5iiawah: So yes, there's a cost to getting your cheap produce. That cost comes from subsidizing the services required of the people who live here and dont contribute to the federal tax coffers


No payroll tax?
 
2013-07-02 01:43:35 AM  

Mrtraveler01: o5iiawah: So yes, there's a cost to getting your cheap produce. That cost comes from subsidizing the services required of the people who live here and dont contribute to the federal tax coffers

No payroll tax?


And it's not like states ever use sales taxes. I mean, they just collect it, and it goes into the ether. It just disappears. It's not like illegals ever buy anything, after all...

What's interesting is that our Beamish Boy is actually looking close to defending the use of illegal labor as a means to keep price pressure down. Not like folks who use illegal labor--say in housing--EVER simply pocket the difference in labor cost, and still sell the house at local market rates, right? Not like those who produce food ever simply charge what their competition does, and pocket the difference in their captive labor, right?

Here's the thing: if your competition is already using legal labor, and you are gaming the system, your price pressure DOES have some influence on the costs of goods and services, but not that great a pressure. Released from that price pressure, the folks who are using illegal labor are going to feel the pinch, because their practices aren't as efficient as their competitors. They can then try to raise their rates, and then see the reverse of the pressure that they exerted on their competitors, but without the buffer that they had with artificially low wages, and without the efficacy of practices and procedures, they're going to be hurting, and consumers will dictate what they will bear for said goods.

At this point, o5iiawah, you're grasping at straws for arguments, again based on a conclusion that was arrived to without actual evidence. Gut doesn't count. Mild prejudice doesn't count. You may want to actually bone up on a bit of economics before coming back in with that sort of weak sauce. It makes people feel bad for you. Like you might need a helmet before typing. Just a thought.
 
2013-07-02 01:45:13 AM  

Nadie_AZ: skilbride: For what it's worth, my dissertation ended by saying the solution to immigration problems in the United States was not anything the government has come up with - it's to provide aid to the countries that cause the biggest problem and make their governments and economies solvent enough that people won't want to come here - and will still purchase from our countries and allow us to export our businesses there. :-P

I've been saying this for years. Nobody listens.


That won't work. In a lot of poor counties, notably in south America, the perception is that the cities hold all the jobs.

So you have massive migrations of people from the rural areas moving to the city looking for work. Unfortunately, there isn't that much work to be had. The perception of work doesn't meet the reality. So shanty towns spring up and you have slums like on Rio(I think that's the city).

Just because you make the grass greener on one side, may not change the other guy's mind.

The best way to fix undocumented workers staying here is by cracking down HARD on people that employe them illegally.

No jobs, no problems from undocumented workers. No granted the perception of work mght stil linger, but it's a better plan by far than nation building. Also gets right to the root of it.
 
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