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(Yahoo)   U.S. House says, be proud, there is nothing wrong with Mexican citizenship   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 227
    More: Spiffy, U.S. House, Goodlatte, John McCain, House Judiciary Committee, Chuck Schumer, Boehner, Luis Gutierrez, Nancy Pelosi  
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4906 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jul 2013 at 6:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-01 07:53:27 PM  

Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.

 
2013-07-01 07:54:23 PM  

1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law?


I certainly hope you're not one of those people who biatch that illegals aren't paying enough in taxes or getting paid under the table.
 
2013-07-01 07:54:45 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.


One day, I hope you end up a spot where you get to walk a mile in their shoes.
 
2013-07-01 07:55:51 PM  

Infernalist: Almost Everybody Poops: Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.

One day, I hope you end up a spot where you get to walk a mile in their shoes,  and if you still don't like them, you're a mile a way and you've got their shoes.

 
2013-07-01 07:56:00 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally


I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.
 
2013-07-01 07:59:32 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.


Why yes, his points are quite easy to rebut if you simply strike them out and ignore everything he wrote.
Truly, you have a stunningly effect debate style.  You, good sir, have convinced me!

Convinced me your a farking moron, that is.
 
2013-07-01 08:00:15 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.


www.democracia.org

Well except for these folks but they hated Castro so it was OK.
 
2013-07-01 08:01:33 PM  
farm3.static.flickr.com

Are you sure about that, GOP?
 
2013-07-01 08:03:49 PM  

meat0918: You know, Boehner could scour the GOP of the Frankenstein's Monster called the Tea Party if they passed the Senate bill and pickup some minority voters that while it wouldn

Of course, the GOP would cease to exist, so I can see why he isn't doing that.


i575.photobucket.com

Any excuse to post that cartoon...
 
2013-07-01 08:04:34 PM  

cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.


Bullshiat.  My friend's well educated, beautiful, talented wife who has scrupulously followed every law required in order to move here to be with him is still stuck in Europe because the US system is awesome.  She thinks it's the greatest thing ever.

/we do, in all seriousness, encourage her to go to Mexico and sneak across
//yes, she could come here illegally from there if she wished, she's just trying to do it legally
///for almost 7 months now, I believe
 
2013-07-01 08:05:55 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.

Ahhh so that makes it okay to break the law.  You know how hard it is to commit murder in the US legally?  The system for legal murder is way, way, beyond just broken.


You know it isn't a crime to be undocumented in the US, right?
 
2013-07-01 08:09:21 PM  

Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally

I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.


I had a troll response all typed up and deleted it, I guess I'm just not cut out for this kind of job.

/yahoo comments are troll goldmines
 
2013-07-01 08:16:04 PM  

Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally

I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.


I'm not sure why you're so focused on the Mexican.  There are lots of illegal immigrants that are here that aren't Mexican.  They aren't even Hispanic.

I did my dissertation on illegal immigration, and while I argue against the "they don't pay taxes" (because if you know a place they buy tax free milk, you should let me know so I can get it) there is something fundamentally wrong with the fact that the vast majority of them take their money they make here and send it back home to care for the ones they left behind.   It's not a large amount for an individual, but you think about how many individuals there are doing it - and you suddenly see a large problem that isn't being addressed at all.

Is the answer to this giving them amnesty?  Definitely not.  But I do believe that it is something that needs to be addressed - and talked about - even though it's unpopular to do so.  A nation only survives if we re-invest in it - and if these immigrants are not doing so - and are instead investing in their nation - then our nation will flounder when there becomes more of them then there is of citizens.
 
2013-07-01 08:19:04 PM  

skilbride: Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally

I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.

I'm not sure why you're so focused on the Mexican.  There are lots of illegal immigrants that are here that aren't Mexican.  They aren't even Hispanic.

I did my dissertation on illegal immigration, and while I argue against the "they don't pay taxes" (because if you know a place they buy tax free milk, you should let me know so I can get it) there is something fundamentally wrong with the fact that the vast majority of them take their money they make here and send it back home to care for the ones they left behind.   It's not a large amount for an individual, but you think about how many individuals there are doing it - and you suddenly see a large problem that isn't being addressed at all.

Is the answer to this giving them amnesty?  Definitely not.  But I do believe that it is something that needs to be addressed - and talked about - even though it' ...


Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?
 
2013-07-01 08:19:42 PM  
"The House answer would not be 'a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have,' he said."

You know, they always bring this up and, given that for the repubs the plural of anecdote is data, I would like to hear of an example, one single farking example, of someone who patiently waited for decades to immigrate lawfully into the United States. That person does not exist and never has. Legal immigrants are either wealthy white Europeans or people with special skills and talents who can get a green card. The poor huddled masses yearning to be free are shiat out of luck unless they climb a fence or skip out on a student or tourist visa.
 
2013-07-01 08:26:35 PM  

Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?


I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.
 
2013-07-01 08:30:15 PM  
Posted this to an earlier thread.

Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

He's a lying fark.
 
2013-07-01 08:32:26 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


1) That's a faulty assumption.  You're assuming this is the case when most legal 1-gen immigrants have tons of family outside of the country.

2) Wow, how does someone say something so painful wrong and not see it?   Legal immigrants have TONS OF FAMILY OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY.

Hell, we have entire diplomatic programs based around getting Cuban immigrants the chance to go home and visit the family they left behind.

The funniest part is that you're treating 'talking to people at a day labor center' as if that's somehow indicative of an entire community of illegal immigrants.

Also, I'd love to see your explanation as to why it's a bad thing if I decide to send my cousins some extra cash for the holidays.
 
2013-07-01 08:38:56 PM  

Infernalist: Also, I'd love to see your explanation as to why it's a bad thing if I decide to send my cousins some extra cash for the holidays.


I think you're missing the point.  I'm not talking about people sending extra cash back to their families, or people who buy a second home in their country.  I'm not talking about people who invest in this country and also in their home country.

I'm talking about people who come here, live in the cheapest possible housing situation, and then send every cent they have besides that back to their home country to entirely support their family.

See this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigra nt s-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

120 billion from the US that's accounted for.  (And the World Bank even admits that number is low because of how easy it is to send cash.)  We are the largest exporter or not only aide from our federal government, but also from people sending money back home.  That's a serious dent.
 
2013-07-01 08:40:21 PM  

skilbride: I mean, DC has a large problem with this. (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.) In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home. They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


And what exactly is wrong with that?  Immigrants (both legal and illegal) have been doing it in this country for a hundred years.  Skilled workers (stone and wood carvers, for instance) from Italy and Germany did it in large numbers around the turn of the twentieth century: they'd come here, build mansions and churches, then go home and live comfortabily.

Southern Italians did the same thing in Germany after WWII: they'd come north as guest workers, build VWs and Mercedeses, then go home and buy or build nice villas for their families and set up businesses in depressed areas.  The Germans got the cheap labor they needed and the Italians got the capital they needed to improve their home villages and towns.
 
2013-07-01 08:40:36 PM  

Fart_Machine: 1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law?

I certainly hope you're not one of those people who biatch that illegals aren't paying enough in taxes or getting paid under the table.


I certainly hope you don't boast of being overly literate.


Illegal immigrants that work and live here must necessarily contribute in taxes in one way or the other. Millions of them contribute to society positively, and that's why resident visas should be given out, still I can't find the logic of rewarding anyone with citizenship for breaking a country's laws to get there.
 People in Europe have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get into the U.S., but since the assumption is that they're all white, you don't see many or the pathway to citizenship crowd shedding a tear over them.
 
2013-07-01 08:41:08 PM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


Basically, ya. They would blame someone who was brought (unlawfully) into the country as a week old baby for the act. Sure you may have grown up here, gone to school here, have all your family and friends here, and only speak English... but we think the only reasonable way you should get citizenship is if you go to a country you've never (save the first week of your life) been to, where you don't know anyone, where you don't even speak the language, and then hope you live long enough in that hellscape that you might get a lottery ticket for a totally broken immigration system that is used more to keep domestic labor prices down than it is to afford any real chance at freedom or prosperity to people from places that have neither. The GOP believes in freedom so much they want to build a special prison for our whole nation just to keep it safe.
 
2013-07-01 08:41:33 PM  

skilbride: Is the answer to this giving them amnesty? Definitely not. But I do believe that it is something that needs to be addressed - and talked about - even though it's unpopular to do so. A nation only survives if we re-invest in it - and if these immigrants are not doing so - and are instead investing in their nation - then our nation will flounder when there becomes more of them then there is of citizens.


Incidentally, earlier waves of immigrants did the same thing.  (Or they made their fortune and just went back home.)

My guess is that the economic impact of having their insanely cheap labor offset the pennies sent abroad.
 
2013-07-01 08:43:04 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


Sending their money back home keeps demand high for the dollar and helps stabilize our currency overall... as someone who enjoys more spending power, I'd say that's a good thing. If you want to be poor, that's cool, but don't codify that for the rest of us.
 
2013-07-01 08:43:34 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally
I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my . . . our team.
I had a troll response all typed up and deleted it, I guess I'm just not cut out for this kind of job.
/yahoo comments are troll goldmines


Masterful bit of trolling.Just stupid enough to drive people crazy, just wrong enough to keep people replying, without going over the edge into "this guy is hopeless" abandonment territory. You really nailed the sweet spot.
 
2013-07-01 08:44:46 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that


ts2.mm.bing.net
They knew what they were getting into. I say let em crash.
 
2013-07-01 08:46:30 PM  

Lorelle: I don't see why the GOP doesn't do what Saint Reagan did back in 1986.


Because AAAGH RAAAGAH FLAGS AND EAGLES SARAH PALIN PAUL RYAN, that's why!
 
2013-07-01 08:46:33 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Also, I'd love to see your explanation as to why it's a bad thing if I decide to send my cousins some extra cash for the holidays.

I think you're missing the point.  I'm not talking about people sending extra cash back to their families, or people who buy a second home in their country.  I'm not talking about people who invest in this country and also in their home country.

I'm talking about people who come here, live in the cheapest possible housing situation, and then send every cent they have besides that back to their home country to entirely support their family.

See this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigra nt s-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

120 billion from the US that's accounted for.  (And the World Bank even admits that number is low because of how easy it is to send cash.)  We are the largest exporter or not only aide from our federal government, but also from people sending money back home.  That's a serious dent.


A dent in what?  In our economy?

If I'm selling you stuff and bob decides to not buy stuff from me and instead gives his money to someone else who isn't buying stuff from me....I don't actually lose anything.  I'm just not making as much as I could if he was spending his money with me instead of sending it home.

You need to explain why it's a bad thing.
 
2013-07-01 08:48:18 PM  
skilbride:  120 billion from the US that's accounted for.  (And the World Bank even admits that number is low because of how easy it is to send cash.)  We are the largest exporter or not only aide from our federal government, but also from people sending money back home.  That's a serious dent.

$120 billion equals about 0.8% of the U.S. GDP.

/but, again, it's not like the only economic effect workers have is in their paycheck.
//plus I've heard that foreigners sometimes buy U.S.-based products and services
///especially those living in NAFTA countries
 
2013-07-01 08:49:34 PM  
Some people....

Just smart enough to grasp a few pertinent facts and then twist them into the entirely wrong conclusion.

Smart enough to know about remittances, not smart enough to know that remittances are not a bad thing.
 
2013-07-01 08:51:05 PM  

firefly212: Sending their money back home keeps demand high for the dollar and helps stabilize our currency overall... as someone who enjoys more spending power, I'd say that's a good thing. If you want to be poor, that's cool, but don't codify that for the rest of us.


That's untrue.  Sending money to a country who's currency is worthless doesn't improve our standing.  And more to the point, to those of you who say, "it's always been like this..."

"A report released yesterday by the Inter-American Development Bank estimates that immigrants living in the United States will send $45 billion to family members this year, representing a steady increase from about $2 billion in 1980. .... nearly 90 percent of immigrants living in the District, Maryland and Virginia regularly send money to their home countries, totaling an estimated $2.2 billion this year. World Bank researchers, who will release a report later this month, found that the overall impact of remittances on Latin American economies is modest at best. For every one percent increase in the share of remittances to a country's gross domestic product, the fraction of the population living in poverty is reduced by about 0.4 percent. "  (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR 2006 101801756.html)

That is 2.2 billion that could be circulating back in DC - paying for roads, families who need assistance here, or something of that nature.  Also, that money being sent back doesn't even improve their family's at home status - because the nation doesn't have the infrastructure to make improvements.

I mean, this year 3 to 5 billion will go to El Savador in the form of remittance.  That is 15% of their entire GDP - made up of money that is earned here - it doesn't improve their country - and it doesn't come back and improve here.
 
2013-07-01 08:56:19 PM  
For what it's worth, my dissertation ended by saying the solution to immigration problems in the United States was not anything the government has come up with - it's to provide aid to the countries that cause the biggest problem and make their governments and economies solvent enough that people won't want to come here - and will still purchase from our countries and allow us to export our businesses there. :-P
 
2013-07-01 08:58:08 PM  
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee said Sunday that any attempt at comprehensive immigration legislation cannot offer a "special pathway to citizenship" for those in the United States illegally. That approach could block the GOP's hopes of ever winning the White House, the top Democrat in the House predicted.

Not that that disturbs me, but what does disturb me is framing this in the context of politicians' chances of getting reelected. Can we, just for once, start looking at objective ways in which legislation will affect our country (and Congressional constituents) as a whole, without hyperbole?
 
2013-07-01 09:02:41 PM  
It seems that many of the immigrants I've met, even ones here illegally, are exactly the type of citizens we should want.

My ex's parents came here illegally prior to Reagan's amnesty. When it's time to vote here in California, they sit down and actually read the full text of each proposition, actually study them intensely with each other and decipher exactly what the law will do. They don't cast their votes based on slogans they've heard or adverts they've seen.

I know lots of immigrants, and this is actually fairly typical for the ones that managed citizenship - they are more likely to contribute to their community than the the typically entitled American, me included, and they do it in a thoughtful manner. These really are the people we want.
 
2013-07-01 09:08:48 PM  
Well, thank you.

So, can you stop spying on me, now?.
 
2013-07-01 09:13:36 PM  
The one thing that is usually missing from these debates, are questions about what to do with employers.

While folks seem to have a hard on for busting up the folks who come here, not much is ever said about the employers who knowingly hire folks, and game the system with cheap labor. Labor that is kept cheap because the employers can threaten their workers with INS, who, because they're day labor, and under the table, can avoid any messy tax or unemployment insurance, or even liability insurance. For the folks who are upset at the benefits situation, you might want to look at the folks who are gaming the system, and avoiding paying into funds by using illegal labor, for some of that ire. Without those folks, you wouldn't have quite the number of folks rolling in, because there would be no jobs waiting. Most of the folks who come here illegally, aren't gangbangers or criminals, but folks who want jobs, even hard jobs, even jobs that pay crappy, because they still have more than they would at home. That they get trapped in these jobs, between crappy pay, and being turned into the INS, without benefits, without being even able to pay into the system is a byproduct of employers who prey upon them, to themselves cheat the competition who does use legal labor, and pocket a fair chunk of change.

Amnesty would allow folks to be able to work legally, get away from the jobs that prey upon them, get away from the folks who prey upon them, and give them a shot at actually paying into the system--besides that goofy sales tax that they already pay which oddly enough folks seem to forget about. For all the folks who have ire about what they take out, this is a better deal than deportation, court costs, and holding, along with tearing up families, and better, when coupled with going after employers, it would mean fines could help pay for the programs, as opposed to simply shipping off folks who are already in economic distress, at the taxpayer dime.

The onus of only looking at the folks who come here illegally misses an important part of this cycle. Phoenix, as a for instance, since I just spent a couple of years out there, was built on the back of a LOT of illegal labor. When the housing developments, the golf courses, and the rest were being built, that wasn't so much of an issue. When they were done, and then folks started hiring out Home Depot lots to compete with the folks who had already completed their projects, suddenly, it became a BIG issue for grandstanding. This is part of the issue.

Another, is the cost of deporting folks, court costs, and the rest. Instead, with amnesty, you bypass that, and with increased scrutiny on employers, you help pay for the costs of processing folks, AND you remove a threat to healthy competition. Amnesty and increased scrutiny on employers helps the free market balance back, as well as adds taxpayers to the rolls, and gets them to pay into systems.

Without employer scrutiny, it's just posturing and grandstanding for the mouth breathers. Who just want to do something, instead of something useful.
 
2013-07-01 09:27:11 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.


Yes, but in the unforeseeable future, they will be rewarded for their commitment to their values.

//you'll see
//or actually you won't
 
2013-07-01 09:28:04 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!


See, that might make sense if we lived in a perfect world.  But there is almost no way, short of just straight-out turning the US into one giant police state and enacting a concentration camp system that would beggar the resources of the world.  But since we live in an imperfect world, we are just going to have to accept that life is not fair and just.  It will be several orders of magnitude of orders of magnitude more workable to simply establish a deadline, and use that as the date that illegal immigrants can show up at designated federal offices and sign up for legal resident alien status.  If you want to give a leg up to legal resident aliens, then cut their wait times or some such benefit compared to the illegals signing up via the amnesty.  The illegal immigrants are here, and there is no sane way to root them out.  Better to exercise mercy and discretion than to try and adopt draconian sweep and deport police actions throughout the US.

You want a perfect system; I want one that actually deals with the problem in a practical manner, even if the scales of justice are not exactly even
 
2013-07-01 09:28:53 PM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


The GOP is just jealous because they don't know the first thing about immigranting.  When they see people try to immigrant, it enranges them to no end, to the point that they accidentally the whole thing.
 
2013-07-01 09:29:55 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


If you're upset that immigrants send their money back to their families in the old country ... then why not just make it easier for them to bring their family with them?
 
2013-07-01 09:31:49 PM  

hubiestubert: Without employer scrutiny, it's just posturing and grandstanding for the mouth breathers. Who just want to do something, instead of something useful.


Something makes the mouth-breathers vote, and that's all that really matters in the end, as long as they vote for the person who appears to do something, even if it isn't well thought out.
 
2013-07-01 09:41:04 PM  
When Jesus returns, he obviously will be an illegal. That's what it means to be a Christian nation built on immigration!
 
2013-07-01 09:44:42 PM  

skilbride: I mean, this year 3 to 5 billion will go to El Savador in the form of remittance. That is 15% of their entire GDP - made up of money that is earned here - it doesn't improve their country - and it doesn't come back and improve here.


That doesn't make any sense.  If there's money coming into the economy, it doesn't matter where it's earned: it improves the economy.  In Chihuahua, in Mexico, guys who work in kitchen here in the US (especially on the east coast) are buying land and building houses for their families.  They're investing the money they make here in real estate, which stablizes land costs, and they're hiring local workers to build these houses, which inject money into the local economy.
 
2013-07-01 09:53:24 PM  
Do the GOP not ever want a hispanic vote ever? Their seething hatred of brown people is going to bite them in the ass.

/Cue: <grouchy cat - good.jpg>
 
2013-07-01 09:53:38 PM  

1derful: Fart_Machine: 1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law?

I certainly hope you're not one of those people who biatch that illegals aren't paying enough in taxes or getting paid under the table.

I certainly hope you don't boast of being overly literate.


Illegal immigrants that work and live here must necessarily contribute in taxes in one way or the other. Millions of them contribute to society positively, and that's why resident visas should be given out, still I can't find the logic of rewarding anyone with citizenship for breaking a country's laws to get there.
 People in Europe have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get into the U.S., but since the assumption is that they're all white, you don't see many or the pathway to citizenship crowd shedding a tear over them.


No I don't boast about it but you obviously can't read.  See I said I hope you weren't one of those people.  Thanks for the confirmation that you don't fit into that group.

But yes, white people who overstayed their visas and are here illegally would apply too.  And it's not really a reward as finding a way to get those who contribute positively to society out from where they can be exploited.
 
2013-07-01 09:58:12 PM  
If Republicans were serious about minimizing illegals, they'd punish the businesses that hire them.
 
2013-07-01 09:59:57 PM  
Legal Immigrant:  I spent a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
Illegal Immigrant:  I can now spend a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
GOP:  SLAP IN THE FACE!!!
 
2013-07-01 10:00:36 PM  
So, the Libtards want the Repubtards to pass their legislation so the Repubtards can win the White House in 2016?

That there tells me there's something wrong with the Libtard legislation. RON PAUL
 
2013-07-01 10:04:49 PM  

gilgigamesh: Almost Everybody Poops: cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.

Ahhh so that makes it okay to break the law.  You know how hard it is to commit murder in the US legally?  The system for legal murder is way, way, beyond just broken.

You know it isn't a crime to be undocumented in the US, right?


It's a misdemeanor, iirc.
 
2013-07-01 10:06:01 PM  

Mentat: Legal Immigrant:  I spent a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
Illegal Immigrant:  I can now spend a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
GOP:  SLAP IN THE FACE!!!


Don't forget that those of us who immigrated legally spent plenty of time just becoming legal permanent residents. The "path to citizenship" is really a path to normal residency that can become citizenship.

Ultimately, though, aggressive immigration laws of any sort only serve to maintain a fake imbalance in labor to create arbitrage opportunities that drain wealth from both sides of the border into the pockets of wealthy capitalists. Why else would "free trade" laws allow essentially unlimited and unregulated flow of capital and business interests across the border but not allow workers the same opportunity?
 
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