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(Yahoo)   U.S. House says, be proud, there is nothing wrong with Mexican citizenship   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 227
    More: Spiffy, U.S. House, Goodlatte, John McCain, House Judiciary Committee, Chuck Schumer, Boehner, Luis Gutierrez, Nancy Pelosi  
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4906 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jul 2013 at 6:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



227 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-01 05:36:11 PM  
If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that
 
2013-07-01 05:58:40 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2013-07-01 05:59:31 PM  
Is the GOP becoming the goddamn Washington Generals of the immigration debate?
 
2013-07-01 06:36:26 PM  
The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.
 
2013-07-01 06:40:28 PM  
I don't see why the GOP doesn't do what Saint Reagan did back in 1986.
 
2013-07-01 06:43:52 PM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


Very black and white reactionary thinking. Yes.

These are easy answers that fit on bumper stickers and are great for quips and comebacks. Awful awful for governing.
 
2013-07-01 06:50:54 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.

Very black and white reactionary thinking. Yes.

These are easy answers that fit on bumper stickers and are great for quips and comebacks. Awful awful for governing.


And if/when someone complains or fights against such heavy handed authoritarian thinking, the GOP screams bloody murder, claims that 'libruls don't fight fair' and then cheats like a bunch of mofos to get their way.  any protest - ANY objection, no matter how reasonable or well considered, is considered a direct personal attack by each and every republican in the hierarchy.  at the same time, protesters are also considered laughable, weak and dismissed as having bought their ipads from mommy and daddy and are to be given a cookie and sent home with a firm push on the shoulder.
 
2013-07-01 06:54:14 PM  
So the Republicans have thrown in their lot with Rejectionism. The Senate bill will not get a vote in the House, and no House bill has a snowball's chance in the Senate.

This is clearly Obama's fault.
 
2013-07-01 06:56:30 PM  
Somebody better send Marco Rubio over to the US House and bowl with John Boehner one Friday night. If anything, golfing or any relaxing sport gets deals done.
 
2013-07-01 07:00:19 PM  
That now falls to Boehner's chamber, where conservatives in his party have complicated his agenda on other subjects - few with such long-term implications as immigration.

You are so screwed, Johnny. Your House is a god damn mess.
 
2013-07-01 07:01:14 PM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


I don't think you understand. A significant number of the people affected by this reform brouhaha are BROWN!

Can't you see why this would bother the Republican Party?
 
2013-07-01 07:01:51 PM  
Good, good! Continue tearing yourselves to pieces, GOP. I'm enjoying the show.
 
2013-07-01 07:03:31 PM  
Well, why wouldn't they reject it? Most of them come from districts with few minorities, and they have to weigh the danger for the party in alienating foreign people vs the far more present danger of being primaried from their right side if they vote for it. They can't win long term, but at least they can keep their jobs in the short term. This isn't a problem primarily of the Republican party, it's a problem that comes from the fact we have a lot of PEOPLE in this country that can't think critically about immigration reform and will never see past their own xenophobia.
 
2013-07-01 07:03:42 PM  
You know, Boehner could scour the GOP of the Frankenstein's Monster called the Tea Party if they passed the Senate bill and pickup some minority voters that while it wouldn

Of course, the GOP would cease to exist, so I can see why he isn't doing that.
 
2013-07-01 07:05:00 PM  

StopLurkListen: This is clearly Obama's fault.


WHY WON'T HE JUST LEEEEEEAAAAADDDDD
 
2013-07-01 07:06:39 PM  
Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.
 
2013-07-01 07:09:13 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens?


By adding fuel to the GOP civil war, which will usher in its needed demise.
 
2013-07-01 07:10:18 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.


Is there a hidden message in that gibberish? I don't recognize any song names..
 
2013-07-01 07:10:43 PM  

StopLurkListen: This is clearly Obama's fault.


If only he showed Leadership (tm)!
 
2013-07-01 07:11:09 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.


You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.
 
2013-07-01 07:11:14 PM  
Let's see, Ryan was the House's numbers guy for the budget proposals.   I wonder who they'll get for immigration.  Gohmert? Poe?

Whatever happens, you can bet a ton of money is going to border defense and absolutely no path to citizenship will be in this "reform" bill for the House.  Another waste of farking time.
 
2013-07-01 07:13:53 PM  
say goodbye to the 2016 presidential election assholes!
 
2013-07-01 07:17:06 PM  
As a liberal, who volunteered for Obama re-election, I can actually to that.

If you came to this country illegally, you are going to live here, finding and deporting costs too much. Rather, keeping you here and taxing you makes better sense.

At the same time, you shouldn't be on the same boat as the legal ones.

/I know, I know nation of immigrants and stuff, but there was no law back then, and US citizenship is something special.
 
2013-07-01 07:18:43 PM  

mayIFark: As a liberal, who volunteered for Obama re-election, I can actually to that.

If you came to this country illegally, you are going to live here, finding and deporting costs too much. Rather, keeping you here and taxing you makes better sense.

At the same time, you shouldn't be on the same boat as the legal ones.

/I know, I know nation of immigrants and stuff, but there was no law back then, and US citizenship is something special.


You sound like you support the Senate bill, whether you know it or not.
 
2013-07-01 07:19:54 PM  

12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.


The very fact Pelosi is still even in the house is because California is such an illegal alien sanctuary state, look at their state gov't, it is in a shambles, look at how broke they are due to supporting millions and millions of illegals---then, realize that this senate amnesty bill allows ALL of an illegals family to come into this country with them, so, the first decade, they estimate 30 MILLION illegals will gain amnesty, the second decade, another 25 MILLION, so, just WHERE does this country have the room or resources to put approx. 60 MILLION more, low income, non-English speaking, non-educated illegals and their families? And don't forget, we have our own population increases also during that same 20 years! What national parks do we plow under to make homes for these people? And, Pelosi will make sure they get a FULL RIDE with benefits, ie welfare, food stamps, disability, taxpayer assisted housing etc. This is NOT good for America!
 
2013-07-01 07:21:47 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: StopLurkListen: This is clearly Obama's fault.

WHY WON'T HE JUST LEEEEEEAAAAADDDDD


I'm tired of N0bama ramming his agenda down our throats!!!!
 
2013-07-01 07:25:10 PM  

12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.


He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.
 
2013-07-01 07:26:25 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Let's see, Ryan was the House's numbers guy for the budget proposals.   I wonder who they'll get for immigration.  Gohmert? Poe?

Whatever happens, you can bet a ton of money is going to border defense and absolutely no path to citizenship will be in this "reform" bill for the House.  Another waste of farking time.


Oh come on, the INS will get a boost, and so will local jails, who will be reimbursed. Well, possibly be reimbursed. Actually, they may have to foot the cost, and then apply for aid from the State, who will then beg and borrow from the Fed, and the cycle of "Who pays for it?" Bingo will continue, but somewhere, there are middlemen smiling broadly...
 
2013-07-01 07:27:46 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.


No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.
 
2013-07-01 07:30:12 PM  
csb time:
I used to teach ESL/citizenship classes. Had a student come in one morning looking like all hell. I asked if he was ok. He said "Si, my son was born 6am." It was 8am when he came in. I asked him why he was even in class. He looked at me like I was crazy and said "I want to be American."

Anyone who discourages people like that from coming here is an idiot.

Besides, odds are, once they accrue enough assets to want to protect their hard earned gains from the welfare sponge class, they probably will vote Republican.
 
2013-07-01 07:30:16 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.


I hope you like $5.00 tomatoes and $7.00 oranges.
 
2013-07-01 07:31:38 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.


Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.
 
2013-07-01 07:33:43 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.


A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!
 
2013-07-01 07:35:39 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!


But you, you're just outraged because why?????? Bored?
 
MFK
2013-07-01 07:38:28 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!


You could also crack down on people who hire illegals... You know, the companies who provide the inventive for fence-hopping and are the "real" root of the problem but that would be messing with the almighty "job creators", wouldn't it?
 
2013-07-01 07:38:32 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!

But you, you're just outraged because why?????? Bored?


No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.
 
2013-07-01 07:39:03 PM  
My ancestors came here legally as stowaways and lied their way to citizenship.  Therefore everyone else needs to play by the rules, ok?
 
2013-07-01 07:40:21 PM  

MFK: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!

You could also crack down on people who hire illegals... You know, the companies who provide the inventive for fence-hopping and are the "real" root of the problem but that would be messing with the almighty "job creators", wouldn't it?


Yes, which is why I am for the E-Verify system
 
2013-07-01 07:42:03 PM  
The question now is what will Obama do since the Congress refuses to pass an Immigration package?  What can he do legally to show illegal immigrants that he's trying to do 'something' for them within the reach of his authority?
 
2013-07-01 07:42:32 PM  
Get ready for another five million to cross the border when they find out they will get amnesty if they can crash the border and make it here before we build this fence that is supposedly being funded.
 
2013-07-01 07:43:54 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!

But you, you're just outraged because why?????? Bored?

No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.


Not something you mentioned in your rant. You would think that with that many words....
 
2013-07-01 07:45:32 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.


That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.
 
2013-07-01 07:46:58 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!

But you, you're just outraged because why?????? Bored?

No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

Not something you mentioned in your rant. You would think that with that many words....


Are you that daft?
 
2013-07-01 07:47:33 PM  
The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

You know, the fact that it can take decades to immigrate might just be indicative of the problem we have with illegal immigration.  It could very well even be the cause.
 
2013-07-01 07:48:09 PM  

cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.


Ahhh so that makes it okay to break the law.  You know how hard it is to commit murder in the US legally?  The system for legal murder is way, way, beyond just broken.
 
2013-07-01 07:48:59 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!

But you, you're just outraged because why?????? Bored?

No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.


Look.... I'm pretty much Fark's token right wing troll at this point but no one except a few people smoking dope in the janitor's closet at La Raza headquarters is actually making the argument you are suggesting everyone to the left of you is making. The only real questions are how do we fix a broken system and does that fix favor corporations or people?

Yes, secure the boarder. Yes, make breaking the law an expensive proposition. Deport the truly dangerous. But only racist savages would favor creating a permanent underclass with no franchise and no hope of one.

We are better than this, people.
 
2013-07-01 07:49:35 PM  
Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law? Even without "reform" U.S. treats its immigrants much better than Mexico does. A work visa program would be fair to people who want to contribute to society, but granting citizenship is simply rewarding people for breaking the law.
 
2013-07-01 07:51:34 PM  
Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.
 
2013-07-01 07:52:05 PM  

part of the problem: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: Almost Everybody Poops: machodonkeywrestler: 12349876: Almost Everybody Poops: Hopefully legal citizens have had a reality check and now realize what voting for Obama has gotten you. He cares more about the illegals than he does millions of legal citizens on unemployment and welfare. How does this reform bill benefit legal citizens? What part of rewarding criminals with citizenship will make our economy better? If americans don't wake up soon and fight this bill with the House this will be another failing third world country in the very near future.

You must be the exception to your handle because your shiat has gotten into your brain.

He just happens to do all his pooping on the screen/paper.

No I have a butler for that, and thanks for disregarding my concern and avoiding the question.

Concern?? Lots of hyperbole and I can't even see a point other than what does THIS do for ME. Me, I tend not to be that selfish.

A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!

But you, you're just outraged because why?????? Bored?

No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

Look.... I'm pretty much Fark's token right wing troll at this point but no one except a few people smoking dope in the janitor's closet at La Raza headquarters is actually ma ...


Step 1) Deport illegals
Step 2) Force all corporations to implement the e-verify system.
Step 3) Levy hefty fines against corporations that employ illegals
 
2013-07-01 07:53:18 PM  
Here we go again. The immigration system is bad, but some people are against fixing the problem, because they only want to punish people. Never mind that we're not even talking about felons.
 
2013-07-01 07:53:27 PM  

Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.

 
2013-07-01 07:54:23 PM  

1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law?


I certainly hope you're not one of those people who biatch that illegals aren't paying enough in taxes or getting paid under the table.
 
2013-07-01 07:54:45 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.


One day, I hope you end up a spot where you get to walk a mile in their shoes.
 
2013-07-01 07:55:51 PM  

Infernalist: Almost Everybody Poops: Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.

One day, I hope you end up a spot where you get to walk a mile in their shoes,  and if you still don't like them, you're a mile a way and you've got their shoes.

 
2013-07-01 07:56:00 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally


I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.
 
2013-07-01 07:59:32 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Infernalist: Imagine living your whole life in America, but knowing that there was a greater nation out there, one that made America look like crap by comparison.

Better still, that nation 'wanted' you there, but didn't make it easy.  10-15 year wait, thousands of dollars and nothing was guaranteed.  But, better still, if you got there and if you were careful, deported you could have a piece of that amazing country for yourself.

The way is dangerous and people die trying to get there, every day.  But your kids are worth it and you deem that prize worth the risk.

Your friends don't agree.  Most stay where they are, content to live in that second-rate country and not take the risks.  You want that prize, however, so you take the risks and make the trip over.

The pay is terrible and you risk being found and sent back home every day.  But, your kids have a better world now. Better education, better care, a less corrupt government, a cleaner environment.  It's a good deal.

The only downside is that you're there illegal and your employers know it for the most part.  They pay you less than legal citizens and the ones that complain either get fired on the spot or ratted out to their version of ICE.

See, they want you there to do the jobs that their own citizens won't do, at ridiculously low wages.  But, they push you away with the other hand, condemning you as a criminal for being there illegally.

Try, just 'try' to put yourself into their shoes.  They're not lazy or evil.  They're just the bravest of their citizens willing to take enormous risks for their families and for themselves.  We should applaud their bravery even as we work hard to try and make it easier for these massively self-motivated people to find a legitimate place in our country.


Why yes, his points are quite easy to rebut if you simply strike them out and ignore everything he wrote.
Truly, you have a stunningly effect debate style.  You, good sir, have convinced me!

Convinced me your a farking moron, that is.
 
2013-07-01 08:00:15 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.


www.democracia.org

Well except for these folks but they hated Castro so it was OK.
 
2013-07-01 08:01:33 PM  
farm3.static.flickr.com

Are you sure about that, GOP?
 
2013-07-01 08:03:49 PM  

meat0918: You know, Boehner could scour the GOP of the Frankenstein's Monster called the Tea Party if they passed the Senate bill and pickup some minority voters that while it wouldn

Of course, the GOP would cease to exist, so I can see why he isn't doing that.


i575.photobucket.com

Any excuse to post that cartoon...
 
2013-07-01 08:04:34 PM  

cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.


Bullshiat.  My friend's well educated, beautiful, talented wife who has scrupulously followed every law required in order to move here to be with him is still stuck in Europe because the US system is awesome.  She thinks it's the greatest thing ever.

/we do, in all seriousness, encourage her to go to Mexico and sneak across
//yes, she could come here illegally from there if she wished, she's just trying to do it legally
///for almost 7 months now, I believe
 
2013-07-01 08:05:55 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.

Ahhh so that makes it okay to break the law.  You know how hard it is to commit murder in the US legally?  The system for legal murder is way, way, beyond just broken.


You know it isn't a crime to be undocumented in the US, right?
 
2013-07-01 08:09:21 PM  

Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally

I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.


I had a troll response all typed up and deleted it, I guess I'm just not cut out for this kind of job.

/yahoo comments are troll goldmines
 
2013-07-01 08:16:04 PM  

Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally

I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.


I'm not sure why you're so focused on the Mexican.  There are lots of illegal immigrants that are here that aren't Mexican.  They aren't even Hispanic.

I did my dissertation on illegal immigration, and while I argue against the "they don't pay taxes" (because if you know a place they buy tax free milk, you should let me know so I can get it) there is something fundamentally wrong with the fact that the vast majority of them take their money they make here and send it back home to care for the ones they left behind.   It's not a large amount for an individual, but you think about how many individuals there are doing it - and you suddenly see a large problem that isn't being addressed at all.

Is the answer to this giving them amnesty?  Definitely not.  But I do believe that it is something that needs to be addressed - and talked about - even though it's unpopular to do so.  A nation only survives if we re-invest in it - and if these immigrants are not doing so - and are instead investing in their nation - then our nation will flounder when there becomes more of them then there is of citizens.
 
2013-07-01 08:19:04 PM  

skilbride: Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally

I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

And really?  I applaud him for doing so.  I got my citizenship because I took my umbilical cord and rappelled down the right vagina.  That guy probably swam rivers, crossed deserts on foot, or allowed himself to be locked into a shipping container.  People that motivated and willing to face that kind of danger to get into this country are the kind of people we're supposed to want playing for our team.

I'm not sure why you're so focused on the Mexican.  There are lots of illegal immigrants that are here that aren't Mexican.  They aren't even Hispanic.

I did my dissertation on illegal immigration, and while I argue against the "they don't pay taxes" (because if you know a place they buy tax free milk, you should let me know so I can get it) there is something fundamentally wrong with the fact that the vast majority of them take their money they make here and send it back home to care for the ones they left behind.   It's not a large amount for an individual, but you think about how many individuals there are doing it - and you suddenly see a large problem that isn't being addressed at all.

Is the answer to this giving them amnesty?  Definitely not.  But I do believe that it is something that needs to be addressed - and talked about - even though it' ...


Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?
 
2013-07-01 08:19:42 PM  
"The House answer would not be 'a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have,' he said."

You know, they always bring this up and, given that for the repubs the plural of anecdote is data, I would like to hear of an example, one single farking example, of someone who patiently waited for decades to immigrate lawfully into the United States. That person does not exist and never has. Legal immigrants are either wealthy white Europeans or people with special skills and talents who can get a green card. The poor huddled masses yearning to be free are shiat out of luck unless they climb a fence or skip out on a student or tourist visa.
 
2013-07-01 08:26:35 PM  

Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?


I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.
 
2013-07-01 08:30:15 PM  
Posted this to an earlier thread.

Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

He's a lying fark.
 
2013-07-01 08:32:26 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


1) That's a faulty assumption.  You're assuming this is the case when most legal 1-gen immigrants have tons of family outside of the country.

2) Wow, how does someone say something so painful wrong and not see it?   Legal immigrants have TONS OF FAMILY OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY.

Hell, we have entire diplomatic programs based around getting Cuban immigrants the chance to go home and visit the family they left behind.

The funniest part is that you're treating 'talking to people at a day labor center' as if that's somehow indicative of an entire community of illegal immigrants.

Also, I'd love to see your explanation as to why it's a bad thing if I decide to send my cousins some extra cash for the holidays.
 
2013-07-01 08:38:56 PM  

Infernalist: Also, I'd love to see your explanation as to why it's a bad thing if I decide to send my cousins some extra cash for the holidays.


I think you're missing the point.  I'm not talking about people sending extra cash back to their families, or people who buy a second home in their country.  I'm not talking about people who invest in this country and also in their home country.

I'm talking about people who come here, live in the cheapest possible housing situation, and then send every cent they have besides that back to their home country to entirely support their family.

See this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigra nt s-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

120 billion from the US that's accounted for.  (And the World Bank even admits that number is low because of how easy it is to send cash.)  We are the largest exporter or not only aide from our federal government, but also from people sending money back home.  That's a serious dent.
 
2013-07-01 08:40:21 PM  

skilbride: I mean, DC has a large problem with this. (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.) In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home. They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


And what exactly is wrong with that?  Immigrants (both legal and illegal) have been doing it in this country for a hundred years.  Skilled workers (stone and wood carvers, for instance) from Italy and Germany did it in large numbers around the turn of the twentieth century: they'd come here, build mansions and churches, then go home and live comfortabily.

Southern Italians did the same thing in Germany after WWII: they'd come north as guest workers, build VWs and Mercedeses, then go home and buy or build nice villas for their families and set up businesses in depressed areas.  The Germans got the cheap labor they needed and the Italians got the capital they needed to improve their home villages and towns.
 
2013-07-01 08:40:36 PM  

Fart_Machine: 1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law?

I certainly hope you're not one of those people who biatch that illegals aren't paying enough in taxes or getting paid under the table.


I certainly hope you don't boast of being overly literate.


Illegal immigrants that work and live here must necessarily contribute in taxes in one way or the other. Millions of them contribute to society positively, and that's why resident visas should be given out, still I can't find the logic of rewarding anyone with citizenship for breaking a country's laws to get there.
 People in Europe have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get into the U.S., but since the assumption is that they're all white, you don't see many or the pathway to citizenship crowd shedding a tear over them.
 
2013-07-01 08:41:08 PM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


Basically, ya. They would blame someone who was brought (unlawfully) into the country as a week old baby for the act. Sure you may have grown up here, gone to school here, have all your family and friends here, and only speak English... but we think the only reasonable way you should get citizenship is if you go to a country you've never (save the first week of your life) been to, where you don't know anyone, where you don't even speak the language, and then hope you live long enough in that hellscape that you might get a lottery ticket for a totally broken immigration system that is used more to keep domestic labor prices down than it is to afford any real chance at freedom or prosperity to people from places that have neither. The GOP believes in freedom so much they want to build a special prison for our whole nation just to keep it safe.
 
2013-07-01 08:41:33 PM  

skilbride: Is the answer to this giving them amnesty? Definitely not. But I do believe that it is something that needs to be addressed - and talked about - even though it's unpopular to do so. A nation only survives if we re-invest in it - and if these immigrants are not doing so - and are instead investing in their nation - then our nation will flounder when there becomes more of them then there is of citizens.


Incidentally, earlier waves of immigrants did the same thing.  (Or they made their fortune and just went back home.)

My guess is that the economic impact of having their insanely cheap labor offset the pennies sent abroad.
 
2013-07-01 08:43:04 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


Sending their money back home keeps demand high for the dollar and helps stabilize our currency overall... as someone who enjoys more spending power, I'd say that's a good thing. If you want to be poor, that's cool, but don't codify that for the rest of us.
 
2013-07-01 08:43:34 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: Karac: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally
I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my . . . our team.
I had a troll response all typed up and deleted it, I guess I'm just not cut out for this kind of job.
/yahoo comments are troll goldmines


Masterful bit of trolling.Just stupid enough to drive people crazy, just wrong enough to keep people replying, without going over the edge into "this guy is hopeless" abandonment territory. You really nailed the sweet spot.
 
2013-07-01 08:44:46 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that


ts2.mm.bing.net
They knew what they were getting into. I say let em crash.
 
2013-07-01 08:46:30 PM  

Lorelle: I don't see why the GOP doesn't do what Saint Reagan did back in 1986.


Because AAAGH RAAAGAH FLAGS AND EAGLES SARAH PALIN PAUL RYAN, that's why!
 
2013-07-01 08:46:33 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Also, I'd love to see your explanation as to why it's a bad thing if I decide to send my cousins some extra cash for the holidays.

I think you're missing the point.  I'm not talking about people sending extra cash back to their families, or people who buy a second home in their country.  I'm not talking about people who invest in this country and also in their home country.

I'm talking about people who come here, live in the cheapest possible housing situation, and then send every cent they have besides that back to their home country to entirely support their family.

See this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271455/Revealed-How-immigra nt s-America-sending-120-BILLION-struggling-families-home.html

120 billion from the US that's accounted for.  (And the World Bank even admits that number is low because of how easy it is to send cash.)  We are the largest exporter or not only aide from our federal government, but also from people sending money back home.  That's a serious dent.


A dent in what?  In our economy?

If I'm selling you stuff and bob decides to not buy stuff from me and instead gives his money to someone else who isn't buying stuff from me....I don't actually lose anything.  I'm just not making as much as I could if he was spending his money with me instead of sending it home.

You need to explain why it's a bad thing.
 
2013-07-01 08:48:18 PM  
skilbride:  120 billion from the US that's accounted for.  (And the World Bank even admits that number is low because of how easy it is to send cash.)  We are the largest exporter or not only aide from our federal government, but also from people sending money back home.  That's a serious dent.

$120 billion equals about 0.8% of the U.S. GDP.

/but, again, it's not like the only economic effect workers have is in their paycheck.
//plus I've heard that foreigners sometimes buy U.S.-based products and services
///especially those living in NAFTA countries
 
2013-07-01 08:49:34 PM  
Some people....

Just smart enough to grasp a few pertinent facts and then twist them into the entirely wrong conclusion.

Smart enough to know about remittances, not smart enough to know that remittances are not a bad thing.
 
2013-07-01 08:51:05 PM  

firefly212: Sending their money back home keeps demand high for the dollar and helps stabilize our currency overall... as someone who enjoys more spending power, I'd say that's a good thing. If you want to be poor, that's cool, but don't codify that for the rest of us.


That's untrue.  Sending money to a country who's currency is worthless doesn't improve our standing.  And more to the point, to those of you who say, "it's always been like this..."

"A report released yesterday by the Inter-American Development Bank estimates that immigrants living in the United States will send $45 billion to family members this year, representing a steady increase from about $2 billion in 1980. .... nearly 90 percent of immigrants living in the District, Maryland and Virginia regularly send money to their home countries, totaling an estimated $2.2 billion this year. World Bank researchers, who will release a report later this month, found that the overall impact of remittances on Latin American economies is modest at best. For every one percent increase in the share of remittances to a country's gross domestic product, the fraction of the population living in poverty is reduced by about 0.4 percent. "  (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/18/AR 2006 101801756.html)

That is 2.2 billion that could be circulating back in DC - paying for roads, families who need assistance here, or something of that nature.  Also, that money being sent back doesn't even improve their family's at home status - because the nation doesn't have the infrastructure to make improvements.

I mean, this year 3 to 5 billion will go to El Savador in the form of remittance.  That is 15% of their entire GDP - made up of money that is earned here - it doesn't improve their country - and it doesn't come back and improve here.
 
2013-07-01 08:56:19 PM  
For what it's worth, my dissertation ended by saying the solution to immigration problems in the United States was not anything the government has come up with - it's to provide aid to the countries that cause the biggest problem and make their governments and economies solvent enough that people won't want to come here - and will still purchase from our countries and allow us to export our businesses there. :-P
 
2013-07-01 08:58:08 PM  
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee said Sunday that any attempt at comprehensive immigration legislation cannot offer a "special pathway to citizenship" for those in the United States illegally. That approach could block the GOP's hopes of ever winning the White House, the top Democrat in the House predicted.

Not that that disturbs me, but what does disturb me is framing this in the context of politicians' chances of getting reelected. Can we, just for once, start looking at objective ways in which legislation will affect our country (and Congressional constituents) as a whole, without hyperbole?
 
2013-07-01 09:02:41 PM  
It seems that many of the immigrants I've met, even ones here illegally, are exactly the type of citizens we should want.

My ex's parents came here illegally prior to Reagan's amnesty. When it's time to vote here in California, they sit down and actually read the full text of each proposition, actually study them intensely with each other and decipher exactly what the law will do. They don't cast their votes based on slogans they've heard or adverts they've seen.

I know lots of immigrants, and this is actually fairly typical for the ones that managed citizenship - they are more likely to contribute to their community than the the typically entitled American, me included, and they do it in a thoughtful manner. These really are the people we want.
 
2013-07-01 09:08:48 PM  
Well, thank you.

So, can you stop spying on me, now?.
 
2013-07-01 09:13:36 PM  
The one thing that is usually missing from these debates, are questions about what to do with employers.

While folks seem to have a hard on for busting up the folks who come here, not much is ever said about the employers who knowingly hire folks, and game the system with cheap labor. Labor that is kept cheap because the employers can threaten their workers with INS, who, because they're day labor, and under the table, can avoid any messy tax or unemployment insurance, or even liability insurance. For the folks who are upset at the benefits situation, you might want to look at the folks who are gaming the system, and avoiding paying into funds by using illegal labor, for some of that ire. Without those folks, you wouldn't have quite the number of folks rolling in, because there would be no jobs waiting. Most of the folks who come here illegally, aren't gangbangers or criminals, but folks who want jobs, even hard jobs, even jobs that pay crappy, because they still have more than they would at home. That they get trapped in these jobs, between crappy pay, and being turned into the INS, without benefits, without being even able to pay into the system is a byproduct of employers who prey upon them, to themselves cheat the competition who does use legal labor, and pocket a fair chunk of change.

Amnesty would allow folks to be able to work legally, get away from the jobs that prey upon them, get away from the folks who prey upon them, and give them a shot at actually paying into the system--besides that goofy sales tax that they already pay which oddly enough folks seem to forget about. For all the folks who have ire about what they take out, this is a better deal than deportation, court costs, and holding, along with tearing up families, and better, when coupled with going after employers, it would mean fines could help pay for the programs, as opposed to simply shipping off folks who are already in economic distress, at the taxpayer dime.

The onus of only looking at the folks who come here illegally misses an important part of this cycle. Phoenix, as a for instance, since I just spent a couple of years out there, was built on the back of a LOT of illegal labor. When the housing developments, the golf courses, and the rest were being built, that wasn't so much of an issue. When they were done, and then folks started hiring out Home Depot lots to compete with the folks who had already completed their projects, suddenly, it became a BIG issue for grandstanding. This is part of the issue.

Another, is the cost of deporting folks, court costs, and the rest. Instead, with amnesty, you bypass that, and with increased scrutiny on employers, you help pay for the costs of processing folks, AND you remove a threat to healthy competition. Amnesty and increased scrutiny on employers helps the free market balance back, as well as adds taxpayers to the rolls, and gets them to pay into systems.

Without employer scrutiny, it's just posturing and grandstanding for the mouth breathers. Who just want to do something, instead of something useful.
 
2013-07-01 09:27:11 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.


Yes, but in the unforeseeable future, they will be rewarded for their commitment to their values.

//you'll see
//or actually you won't
 
2013-07-01 09:28:04 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!


See, that might make sense if we lived in a perfect world.  But there is almost no way, short of just straight-out turning the US into one giant police state and enacting a concentration camp system that would beggar the resources of the world.  But since we live in an imperfect world, we are just going to have to accept that life is not fair and just.  It will be several orders of magnitude of orders of magnitude more workable to simply establish a deadline, and use that as the date that illegal immigrants can show up at designated federal offices and sign up for legal resident alien status.  If you want to give a leg up to legal resident aliens, then cut their wait times or some such benefit compared to the illegals signing up via the amnesty.  The illegal immigrants are here, and there is no sane way to root them out.  Better to exercise mercy and discretion than to try and adopt draconian sweep and deport police actions throughout the US.

You want a perfect system; I want one that actually deals with the problem in a practical manner, even if the scales of justice are not exactly even
 
2013-07-01 09:28:53 PM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


The GOP is just jealous because they don't know the first thing about immigranting.  When they see people try to immigrant, it enranges them to no end, to the point that they accidentally the whole thing.
 
2013-07-01 09:29:55 PM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


If you're upset that immigrants send their money back to their families in the old country ... then why not just make it easier for them to bring their family with them?
 
2013-07-01 09:31:49 PM  

hubiestubert: Without employer scrutiny, it's just posturing and grandstanding for the mouth breathers. Who just want to do something, instead of something useful.


Something makes the mouth-breathers vote, and that's all that really matters in the end, as long as they vote for the person who appears to do something, even if it isn't well thought out.
 
2013-07-01 09:41:04 PM  
When Jesus returns, he obviously will be an illegal. That's what it means to be a Christian nation built on immigration!
 
2013-07-01 09:44:42 PM  

skilbride: I mean, this year 3 to 5 billion will go to El Savador in the form of remittance. That is 15% of their entire GDP - made up of money that is earned here - it doesn't improve their country - and it doesn't come back and improve here.


That doesn't make any sense.  If there's money coming into the economy, it doesn't matter where it's earned: it improves the economy.  In Chihuahua, in Mexico, guys who work in kitchen here in the US (especially on the east coast) are buying land and building houses for their families.  They're investing the money they make here in real estate, which stablizes land costs, and they're hiring local workers to build these houses, which inject money into the local economy.
 
2013-07-01 09:53:24 PM  
Do the GOP not ever want a hispanic vote ever? Their seething hatred of brown people is going to bite them in the ass.

/Cue: <grouchy cat - good.jpg>
 
2013-07-01 09:53:38 PM  

1derful: Fart_Machine: 1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law?

I certainly hope you're not one of those people who biatch that illegals aren't paying enough in taxes or getting paid under the table.

I certainly hope you don't boast of being overly literate.


Illegal immigrants that work and live here must necessarily contribute in taxes in one way or the other. Millions of them contribute to society positively, and that's why resident visas should be given out, still I can't find the logic of rewarding anyone with citizenship for breaking a country's laws to get there.
 People in Europe have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get into the U.S., but since the assumption is that they're all white, you don't see many or the pathway to citizenship crowd shedding a tear over them.


No I don't boast about it but you obviously can't read.  See I said I hope you weren't one of those people.  Thanks for the confirmation that you don't fit into that group.

But yes, white people who overstayed their visas and are here illegally would apply too.  And it's not really a reward as finding a way to get those who contribute positively to society out from where they can be exploited.
 
2013-07-01 09:58:12 PM  
If Republicans were serious about minimizing illegals, they'd punish the businesses that hire them.
 
2013-07-01 09:59:57 PM  
Legal Immigrant:  I spent a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
Illegal Immigrant:  I can now spend a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
GOP:  SLAP IN THE FACE!!!
 
2013-07-01 10:00:36 PM  
So, the Libtards want the Repubtards to pass their legislation so the Repubtards can win the White House in 2016?

That there tells me there's something wrong with the Libtard legislation. RON PAUL
 
2013-07-01 10:04:49 PM  

gilgigamesh: Almost Everybody Poops: cptjeff: Almost Everybody Poops: No because I am a law abiding citizen that believes you shouldn't have to break the law before immigrating to the US.

That's great. Do you have any farking idea how hard it is to immigrate to the US legally? The system for legal immigration is way, way beyond just broken.

Ahhh so that makes it okay to break the law.  You know how hard it is to commit murder in the US legally?  The system for legal murder is way, way, beyond just broken.

You know it isn't a crime to be undocumented in the US, right?


It's a misdemeanor, iirc.
 
2013-07-01 10:06:01 PM  

Mentat: Legal Immigrant:  I spent a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
Illegal Immigrant:  I can now spend a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
GOP:  SLAP IN THE FACE!!!


Don't forget that those of us who immigrated legally spent plenty of time just becoming legal permanent residents. The "path to citizenship" is really a path to normal residency that can become citizenship.

Ultimately, though, aggressive immigration laws of any sort only serve to maintain a fake imbalance in labor to create arbitrage opportunities that drain wealth from both sides of the border into the pockets of wealthy capitalists. Why else would "free trade" laws allow essentially unlimited and unregulated flow of capital and business interests across the border but not allow workers the same opportunity?
 
2013-07-01 10:06:23 PM  

1derful: I can't find the logic of rewarding anyone with citizenship for breaking a country's laws to get there.


It also helps if you read the article before calling other people illiterate.

The Senate bill would provide a long and difficult pathway to citizenship for those living in the country illegally

Yup, sounds like they're totally rewarding them with freebie citizenship!
 
2013-07-01 10:07:49 PM  
Karac:
I got a question for you.  Take your stereotypical illegal immigrant from Mexico: poor and unskilled.  What, exactly, is the process for him to get into this country illegally?  Because to the best of my knowledge that group's got a quota of 10,000 souls a year on it.  There IS NO way for him to play by the rules, stand in line, and wait patiently to immigrate - his kids would probably be dead before he got to the front of that line.  And since there's no way for him to do it legally, he gets in however he can.

Can the white guilt shiat, it's annoying.
Are white countries allowed to have laws about immigration or not? Are they allowed to have sovereignty?
 
2013-07-01 10:11:00 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: white countries

White countries
 
2013-07-01 10:16:06 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally. If you break the law there are consequences! A path to legal standing as a "legal alien" is possible, but only if we first secure our borders and develop a progress to track and evict all those who overstay their tourist and student visas. so many people only think of our southern border when illegal immigration is mentioned, but there are millions of europeans and asians who are here on expired student and tourist visas. This needs to stop!



Why?
 
2013-07-01 10:17:10 PM  
Deportation is almost impossible logistically.  We need to stop this at the employer level.

End day workers
Jail employers who knowingly hire people here illegally.
Force ICE to come pick up immigration offenders when state and local police discover them in the normal course of duty (accidents, traffic stops, etc)
 
2013-07-01 10:21:43 PM  

Mentat: Legal Immigrant:  I spent a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
Illegal Immigrant:  I can now spend a decade working my way through the system to become a citizen.
GOP:  SLAP IN THE FACE!!!


i81.photobucket.com
Hey illegal immigrants.

bloggfiler.no
Que?

www.memecreator.org
What did the five fingers say to your citizenship status?

img.fark.net
  Que?

25.media.tumblr.com
SLAP!
 
2013-07-01 10:22:50 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: God-is-a-Taco: white countries
White countries


You're pretty good at that HTML thing.
 
2013-07-01 10:25:55 PM  

1derful: Why should people be rewarded for breaking the law? Even without "reform" U.S. treats its immigrants much better than Mexico does. A work visa program would be fair to people who want to contribute to society, but granting citizenship is simply rewarding people for breaking the law.


Yet our economy depends on those law breakers doing menial jobs at wages the majority of citizens consider "crazy".
 
2013-07-01 10:27:39 PM  
Wait, no path to citizenship in the bill?

www.nypost.com

"You tell me how we're going to catch eleven million people. Are you out of your farking mind?!"
 
2013-07-01 10:30:52 PM  

AnonAmbientLight: Wait, no path to citizenship in the bill?

[www.nypost.com image 300x300]

"You tell me how we're going to catch eleven million people. Are you out of your farking mind?!"


tonova.typepad.com
 
2013-07-01 10:39:03 PM  
GOP is just pissed that minorities are bright enough not to vote against their own interests, like stupid old hateful white people do every election cycle. 
So they do everything they can to nullify their vote.
/Thanks, Evil Rich!
www.askjohnchatman.com
 
2013-07-01 10:41:45 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.


Slap.  In.  The.  Face.

Things have always been difficult for people wanting to immigrate to the US, so by gum, they should always be difficult!
 
2013-07-01 10:44:54 PM  

sendtodave: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.

Slap.  In.  The.  Face.

Things have always been difficult for people wanting to immigrate to the US, so by gum, they should always be difficult!


Yeah, great... Except they haven't always been so difficult.
 
2013-07-01 10:50:57 PM  
Don't worry....skilbride will take Macro Econ 101 one of these days.
 
2013-07-01 10:56:48 PM  

Lorelle: I don't see why the GOP doesn't do what Saint Reagan did back in 1986.


THAT amnesty wan't a REAL amnesty
 
2013-07-01 11:09:36 PM  

SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.


Do you actually know any people who are supposedly "hispanic"?

First of all, that's a bullshiat term.  They're white just like me.  Secondly the ones who have ancestors from Mexico or other Spanish speaking nations actually are proud that they immigrated legally and don't appreciate people sneaking over the border.

Of course, that cannot be applied to all so-called "hispanics", but many of them do feel that way and many do vote republican.

Don't make the mistake of lumping all "hispanics" together.
 
2013-07-01 11:10:20 PM  

skilbride: For what it's worth, my dissertation ended by saying the solution to immigration problems in the United States was not anything the government has come up with - it's to provide aid to the countries that cause the biggest problem and make their governments and economies solvent enough that people won't want to come here - and will still purchase from our countries and allow us to export our businesses there. :-P


I've been saying this for years. Nobody listens.
 
2013-07-01 11:23:18 PM  
Nadie_AZ:

I've been saying this for years. Nobody listens.

But but won't someone think of the Corruption???? What will poor Corruption do if we go trying to fix things???
 
2013-07-01 11:27:35 PM  

KeatingFive: Lorelle: I don't see why the GOP doesn't do what Saint Reagan did back in 1986.

THAT amnesty wan't a REAL amnesty


AINO?
 
2013-07-01 11:32:13 PM  

gfid: SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

Do you actually know any people who are supposedly "hispanic"?

First of all, that's a bullshiat term.  They're white just like me.  Secondly the ones who have ancestors from Mexico or other Spanish speaking nations actually are proud that they immigrated legally and don't appreciate people sneaking over the border.

Of course, that cannot be applied to all so-called "hispanics", but many of them do feel that way and many do vote republican.

Don't make the mistake of lumping all "hispanics" together.


Bullshiat.
 
2013-07-01 11:35:56 PM  

Infernalist: gfid: SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

Do you actually know any people who are supposedly "hispanic"?

First of all, that's a bullshiat term.  They're white just like me.  Secondly the ones who have ancestors from Mexico or other Spanish speaking nations actually are proud that they immigrated legally and don't appreciate people sneaking over the border.

Of course, that cannot be applied to all so-called "hispanics", but many of them do feel that way and many do vote republican.

Don't make the mistake of lumping all "hispanics" together.

Bullshiat.


I agree. Total bullshiat.
 
2013-07-01 11:43:35 PM  

AeAe: say goodbye to the 2016 presidential election assholes!


Most certainly.

I'm still hoping Santorum runs again for the GOP nomination, for the entertainment value....
 
2013-07-01 11:44:59 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: AeAe: say goodbye to the 2016 presidential election assholes!

Most certainly.

I'm still hoping Santorum runs again for the GOP nomination, for the entertainment value....


No way! Palin/Bachmann Freedom Party!   The world could not produce enough popcorn.
 
2013-07-01 11:45:07 PM  

All_Farked_Up: Deportation is almost impossible logistically.  We need to stop this at the employer level.

End day workers
Jail employers who knowingly hire people here illegally.
Force ICE to come pick up immigration offenders when state and local police discover them in the normal course of duty (accidents, traffic stops, etc)


I think if ICE dedicated 50% of their personnel and effort to finding and prosecuting people who hire folks illegally, the issue would dry up and blow away inside of three years.

The employment law violations ought to include prison time for hiring managers, HR, and executive staff if you have repeat offenses---and it should include revocation of corporate charters and business licenses.

Do that first, and we probably can leave the desert to the pronghorns and borrego sheep.

/But sadly, ICE doesn't cover employment law, I think.
 
2013-07-01 11:45:20 PM  

gfid: SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

Do you actually know any people who are supposedly "hispanic"?

First of all, that's a bullshiat term.  They're white just like me.  Secondly the ones who have ancestors from Mexico or other Spanish speaking nations actually are proud that they immigrated legally and don't appreciate people sneaking over the border.

Of course, that cannot be applied to all so-called "hispanics", but many of them do feel that way and many do vote republican.

Don't make the mistake of lumping all "hispanics" together.


If by "Many" you mean "a few Cubans in Miami who want to stick it to Castro", then yes.  But generally speaking, the majority of Hispanics vote Democratic.
 
2013-07-01 11:45:42 PM  

hubiestubert: The one thing that is usually missing from these debates, are questions about what to do with employers.


Thing is, no one is interested in cracking down on those employers. Those employers' businesses are set up to depend on illegals, and many of those businesses are quite large (see agro businesses), and I'd bet you a dollar that most of those illegal-exploitation businesses Vote Republican.

Fining businesses that hire illegals is just like fining banks: no one wants to do it be cause lazy/corrupt/slap on the wrist.
 
2013-07-01 11:47:45 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: gfid: SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

Do you actually know any people who are supposedly "hispanic"?

First of all, that's a bullshiat term.  They're white just like me.  Secondly the ones who have ancestors from Mexico or other Spanish speaking nations actually are proud that they immigrated legally and don't appreciate people sneaking over the border.

Of course, that cannot be applied to all so-called "hispanics", but many of them do feel that way and many do vote republican.

Don't make the mistake of lumping all "hispanics" together.

If by "Many" you mean "a few Cubans in Miami who want to stick it to Castro", then yes.  But generally speaking, the majority of Hispanics vote Democratic.


www.dailyracingrag.com
  Hey, Gringo, don't forget meee!
 
2013-07-01 11:47:51 PM  
You know, if there was a job offer that I knew I could get in Europe that would pay me Handsomely right out of the gate, I would not wait to immigrate there. I would hop on a plane and go there right the fark now, and try to immigrate while I was there, or do it for as long as possible. I think most Americans would not wait the long process in this same situation.
 
2013-07-01 11:50:19 PM  

Zeppelininthesky: I hope you like $5.00 tomatoes and $7.00 oranges.


I hate to break this to you, but you're paying $5 for tomatoes and $7 for oranges already, just in the form of social services that illegals are using up.  You pay in your property taxes, your federal income tax in SNAP benefits and when you use the ER or your health insurance.

If you're a disabled veteran, or a natural-born American who is down on their luck and actually needs a helping hand, I feel bad for you - you now have 11-20M people who are competing for resources right along side you.

If 11 million people just decided to stop paying taxes, the IRS would be all over them
If 11 million people decided to convert their AR-15s to select-fire, the ATF would be all over them
If 11 million people decided they didn't want to buy health insurance, the HHS would be all over them
but 11 million illegals?  Thats way too many people!  What are we gonna do?

Infernalist: If I'm selling you stuff and bob decides to not buy stuff from me and instead gives his money to someone else who isn't buying stuff from me....I don't actually lose anything.


You dont - but if that person isn't buying anything, you dont need as many people to work in your store or produce your widgets.

sendtodave: Things have always been difficult for people wanting to immigrate to the US, so by gum, they should always be difficult!


It should be easy.
Criteria should be at least a HS equivalency, a basic English test, a job, 5 years of no criminal history and NO violent crime at all. Fast track for those who have college degrees, or start a business and hire n employees in a certain time period.  I should take no more than 5 years, or 2-3 for those who meet fast-track criteria for full citizenship.

For the people who are here, have a job or are in school, are 5-years crime free with no violent offenses and are not on public assistance, your time starts now.  If you dont have a job, you have 6 months to find one. If you have a criminal history, come back when its been 5 years.

I dont care that my Neighbor might be brown - I just want my neighbor to be an American
 
2013-07-01 11:51:27 PM  

Lackofname: You know, if there was a job offer that I knew I could get in Europe that would pay me Handsomely right out of the gate, I would not wait to immigrate there. I would hop on a plane and go there right the fark now, and try to immigrate while I was there, or do it for as long as possible. I think most Americans would not wait the long process in this same situation.


Yeah, but Americans aren't shifty-eyed, lazy drug addicted murderers and thieves, out to steal some Frenchies daughters....... Oh wait....
 
2013-07-01 11:54:04 PM  

o5iiawah: I hate to break this to you, but you're paying $5 for tomatoes and $7 for oranges already, just in the form of social services that illegals are using up.


Citation needed.
 
2013-07-01 11:54:49 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I've been saying this for years. Nobody listens.


Yes, lets Nation-build some more and line the pockets of politicians who are almost all on the take with organized crime.  That has worked splendidly in the past and I dont see any way that could go wrong.
 
2013-07-02 12:01:04 AM  
www.askjohnchatman.com
1.bp.blogspot.com

OT, and apologies to bwilson27 here , but I couldn't help but notice some similarities between these two...
 
2013-07-02 12:03:27 AM  

o5iiawah: Nadie_AZ: I've been saying this for years. Nobody listens.

Yes, lets Nation-build some more and line the pockets of politicians who are almost all on the take with organized crime.  That has worked splendidly in the past and I dont see any way that could go wrong.


This. You would think my fellow Arizonian would be pretty savvy of this to begin with. What were you thinking, Nadie AZ?
 
2013-07-02 12:04:24 AM  

Fart_Machine: Citation needed.


Good god, do I really have to explain this to you?

When an illegal immigrant walks into a store and buys things with food stamps, he does so with money that has been taxed away from the store and from regular citizens who pay income taxes at the federal level - something most illegals in an informal economy dont contribute into.  You as a taxpayer pay for your orange and the illegal's orange that he purchased with his SNAP card.

When the illegal immigrant gets sick and goes to the ER, there's a good chance he's going to leave without paying.  When you go to the hospital, the cost of your care also includes a portion of the unpaid ER visit.

And pretty much anything else you can think of that is a federal tax benefit.  Just because someone pays a local 6% sales tax doesn't mean they "Pay taxes" in the sense of a citizen or authorized worker who pays federal income tax does.  They draw the services but dont contribute.  Guess who has to contribute more to make up for it?
 
2013-07-02 12:06:58 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: Citation needed.

Good god, do I really have to explain this to you?

When an illegal immigrant walks into a store and buys things with food stamps, he does so with money that has been taxed away from the store and from regular citizens who pay income taxes at the federal level - something most illegals in an informal economy dont contribute into.  You as a taxpayer pay for your orange and the illegal's orange that he purchased with his SNAP card.

When the illegal immigrant gets sick and goes to the ER, there's a good chance he's going to leave without paying.  When you go to the hospital, the cost of your care also includes a portion of the unpaid ER visit.

And pretty much anything else you can think of that is a federal tax benefit.  Just because someone pays a local 6% sales tax doesn't mean they "Pay taxes" in the sense of a citizen or authorized worker who pays federal income tax does.  They draw the services but dont contribute.  Guess who has to contribute more to make up for it?


Poor, poor you?
 
2013-07-02 12:09:27 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.


...Except for the part where the  only demographic being debated are people who were brought here as children with no say in breaking the law, probably speak no language besides English, and have no home to go to. So yeah. Let's punish people who were FORCED to break the law! That's ethical!
 
2013-07-02 12:10:09 AM  

o5iiawah: Good god, do I really have to explain this to you?


No you might want to provide an actual citation apart from anecdotal evidence you got from some nativist hack site.
 
2013-07-02 12:10:32 AM  

PsiChick: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.

...Except for the part where the  only demographic being debated are people who were brought here as children with no say in breaking the law, probably speak no language besides English, and have no home to go to. So yeah. Let's punish people who were FORCED to break the law! That's ethical!


Well yeah! They will probably vote democrat for sure!
 
2013-07-02 12:10:41 AM  

Close2TheEdge: He's a lying fark.


i hope it didn't take this episode to learn this.

and btw ask him how that farm bill went. a speaker who can't shepherd a farm bill through the house isn't good for much anything.
 
2013-07-02 12:10:44 AM  

o5iiawah: Zeppelininthesky: I hope you like $5.00 tomatoes and $7.00 oranges.

I hate to break this to you, but you're paying $5 for tomatoes and $7 for oranges already, just in the form of social services that illegals are using up.  You pay in your property taxes, your federal income tax in SNAP benefits and when you use the ER or your health insurance.


You are so full of shiat that your eyes must be brown. I'm on SNAP. To sign up, you need proof of citizenship, a social security number, the works.
 
2013-07-02 12:11:35 AM  

bwilson27: Poor, poor you?


Can you read?  i wasn't complaining, just explaining that people who play the "But lettuce will be $5!!!" card are all morons who neglect to consider what they pay in social services to support people who dont contribute and draw.

I want nothing more than law-abiding people working and paying taxes legally in this country.  I want employers who hire under the table to be punished.  Unless you can find something I've posted to suggest otherwise, I'd suggest you drink dick
 
2013-07-02 12:11:43 AM  

Lackofname: o5iiawah: Zeppelininthesky: I hope you like $5.00 tomatoes and $7.00 oranges.

I hate to break this to you, but you're paying $5 for tomatoes and $7 for oranges already, just in the form of social services that illegals are using up.  You pay in your property taxes, your federal income tax in SNAP benefits and when you use the ER or your health insurance.

You are so full of shiat that your eyes must be brown. I'm on SNAP. To sign up, you need proof of citizenship, a social security number, the works.


You must be wrong. The re:re:re:re e-mail he got told him otherwise.
 
2013-07-02 12:15:35 AM  

Fart_Machine: No you might want to provide an actual citation apart from anecdotal evidence you got from some nativist hack site.


If you need me to explain that illegal immigrants dont contribute to the federal tax base yet are allowed to draw benefits off the tax base, you're playing in the wrong sandbox. No surprise - you show yourself pretty incapable of grasping simple crap like this more often than not.  Pejoratives and race-hustling are all you have.
 
2013-07-02 12:17:39 AM  

o5iiawah: bwilson27: Poor, poor you?

Can you read?  i wasn't complaining, just explaining that people who play the "But lettuce will be $5!!!" card are all morons who neglect to consider what they pay in social services to support people who dont contribute and draw.

I want nothing more than law-abiding people working and paying taxes legally in this country.  I want employers who hire under the table to be punished.  Unless you can find something I've posted to suggest otherwise, I'd suggest you drink dick


Drink dick? You're suggesting that? What else would you recommend, eating shiat? Never tried it, myself.
 
2013-07-02 12:17:52 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: No you might want to provide an actual citation apart from anecdotal evidence you got from some nativist hack site.

If you need me to explain that illegal immigrants dont contribute to the federal tax base yet are allowed to draw benefits off the tax base, you're playing in the wrong sandbox. No surprise - you show yourself pretty incapable of grasping simple crap like this more often than not.  Pejoratives and race-hustling are all you have.


Wait, you're accusing me of race-hustling and pejoratives when you call people morons and say that illegals are living off the federal dole without offering any real citation to back up your accusations?  Typical.
 
2013-07-02 12:19:41 AM  

Lackofname: hubiestubert: The one thing that is usually missing from these debates, are questions about what to do with employers.

Thing is, no one is interested in cracking down on those employers. Those employers' businesses are set up to depend on illegals, and many of those businesses are quite large (see agro businesses), and I'd bet you a dollar that most of those illegal-exploitation businesses Vote Republican.

Fining businesses that hire illegals is just like fining banks: no one wants to do it be cause lazy/corrupt/slap on the wrist.


Those businesses also probably contribute a lot of money to GOP election coffers. Thus the conundrum: the tension between racism and greed.
 
2013-07-02 12:22:02 AM  
fusillade762:

Those businesses also probably contribute a lot of money to GOP election coffers. Thus the conundrum: the tension between racism and greed.

This, people, is the very heart of the whole entire issue. Argue all you want and use all the tired talking points, but THIS is the reality.
 
2013-07-02 12:22:30 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that


So you're saying that they may as well not pass it.

/I'm ok with that
 
2013-07-02 12:23:04 AM  
 
2013-07-02 12:24:31 AM  

Lackofname: You are so full of shiat that your eyes must be brown. I'm on SNAP. To sign up, you need proof of citizenship, a social security number, the works.


This official list of criteria from USDA.gov is going to make you feel stupid.

"You need not divulge your immigration status to qualify"

That moment.  When you realize you arent as smart as you think you are.  is it enlightening or sad for you?

Fart_Machine: You must be wrong. The re:re:re:re e-mail he got told him otherwise.


yeah, or the USDA website.
 
2013-07-02 12:26:53 AM  

Fart_Machine: Wait, you're accusing me of race-hustling and pejoratives when you call people morons and say that illegals are living off the federal dole


So please explain how someone without a social security card, who is not here in any sort of official status or has no legal right to work here pays federal income tax.

and you are the one suggesting there's some racial element to this conversation. Again- someone says something you arent smart enough to argue against, so you call them racist.
 
2013-07-02 12:28:28 AM  

o5iiawah: yeah, or the USDA website.


Scroll up buttercup.
 
2013-07-02 12:28:36 AM  
if i were not from this country (like my great grandfather was), i know i would try to become a citizen, even at the cost of the ridicule and the intolerance which abounds.
 
2013-07-02 12:30:06 AM  
GoPAsshole#1: We have a problem. Our base, old white Christian people, are dropping like flies. The more we cater to them, the more it pisses off the browns and blacks. We can't win nationally now, and it is only going to get worse.

Aide: The Democrats bill provides a path for citizenship!

GoPAsshole#2: Crap! The new voters that create are overwhelmingly going to vote Democrat! So while we will be losing voters, what with all the old farks dying, they will be picking up voters.

GoPAsshole#1: Bah, thanks to gerrymandering that can't happen unless we OK it, and we wont.

GoPAsshole#2: I kinda think a path to citizenship might help us in that it would....

GoPAsshole#1: SHUT YOUR GODDAMN PIE HOLE! If you even THINK about siding against us we will have a TeaParty primary you faster than you can say "Sarah Palin"! No, we will just dig out heels in. Those goddamn illegals are going to get citizenship.

GoPAsshole#2: So, we just preserve the status quo where we hold a disadvantage in votes and that gap just gets wider as old folks die?

GoPAsshole#1: A flawless plan, right!
 
2013-07-02 12:31:43 AM  

Fart_Machine: Since you're not going to provide a citation I'll just do it myself.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP. Additionally, there is already a strict waiting period for documented immigrants. Documented adult immigrants (those with a greencard) are subject to a five-year waiting period before they are eligible for SNAP.

Noncitizens make up a very small portion of SNAP participants - only 4% of participants are noncitizens (documented immigrants or refugees).[xxxii]

So once again you're full of it.


Good god, do you even read the crap you post?

Citizenship Requirements

We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP.


Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP.



Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on.  unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.
 
2013-07-02 12:32:26 AM  

Jumbled: if i were not from this country (like my great grandfather was), i know i would try to become a citizen, even at the cost of the ridicule and the intolerance which abounds.


So you're another shiftless, lazy mexican trying to steal my JOB? 
/Go back to Africa, dirty librul hippie.
 
2013-07-02 12:32:37 AM  

o5iiawah: So please explain how someone without a social security card, who is not here in any sort of official status or has no legal right to work here pays federal income tax.


You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.

o5iiawah:
and you are the one suggesting there's some racial element to this conversation. Again- someone says something you arent smart enough to argue against, so you call them racist.

Could you provide a quote were I said you were a racist?  Do you like making shait up?
 
2013-07-02 12:33:52 AM  
I'll say it again:  California really is like an amazing little microcosm of the whole US, just twenty years ahead of time.

CA gave you Nixon, and Reagan, and then slowly slid towards blue as the GOP alienated every constituency imaginable (through moves like Prop 187) except the deep, rural red farming areas, until there simply wasn't enough votes left to remain in power through any legitimate means.  They lost the support of big business, who increasingly grew up in deep blue cultural pockets like Silicon Valley, and had no taste for the social conservatism of years before.  Meanwhile, the state went into complete gridlock for nearly two decades as deep gerrymandering on both sides sent people to Sacramento who's only claim to governance were their oaths to never compromise, and supermajorities (which neither had) became necessary to raise spending or cut taxes.  Meanwhile a mini-industry of hyper-partisan shock jocks sprang up to ride the outrage machine to fame and fortune while secretly cheering on the total dysfunction.

Sound familiar?   The state slowly slid out of financial control due to complete paralysis until the GOP demographics became so weak, a popular referendum finally wiped out gerrymandered districts and the state swung almost instantly to Democratic supermajorities in both houses.  Now that folks can actually govern again, and the economy is picking up on its own, Democrats get to take credit for the entire rebound and elimination of the deficit, even if that's not entirely fair, further cementing their lead.  It's hard to imagine how Republicans can possibly ever compete here again -- at least until the one-party system slowly and inevitably blows up on its own, but that may not be for decades.
 
2013-07-02 12:34:31 AM  

Fart_Machine: Scroll up buttercup.


I was too busy actually reading the source you posted since its obvious you didnt.  You found a small nugget or information or talking point you thought made your argument when as it turns out, your source agrees with me that there needs to be tougher enforcement of illegal immigrants who are caught on the program.

But your and your retard crew says it cant happen so that must be true.

Now, are you going to explain to me how someone without a SS#, or green card can legally work a job and pay federal income tax or are we done here?
 
2013-07-02 12:35:23 AM  

o5iiawah: Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on. unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.


You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.
 
2013-07-02 12:35:24 AM  

o5iiawah: Good god, do you even read the crap you post?

Citizenship Requirements

We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP.


So the fact that they're ineligible for SNAP is proof that illegal immigrants are using SNAP?
 
2013-07-02 12:36:32 AM  

Fart_Machine: You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.


The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.

Seriously come back when you have better.
 
2013-07-02 12:37:10 AM  

jaerik: I'll say it again:  California really is like an amazing little microcosm of the whole US, just twenty years ahead of time.

CA gave you Nixon, and Reagan, and then slowly slid towards blue as the GOP alienated every constituency imaginable (through moves like Prop 187) except the deep, rural red farming areas, until there simply wasn't enough votes left to remain in power through any legitimate means.  They lost the support of big business, who increasingly grew up in deep blue cultural pockets like Silicon Valley, and had no taste for the social conservatism of years before.  Meanwhile, the state went into complete gridlock for nearly two decades as deep gerrymandering on both sides sent people to Sacramento who's only claim to governance were their oaths to never compromise, and supermajorities (which neither had) became necessary to raise spending or cut taxes.  Meanwhile a mini-industry of hyper-partisan shock jocks sprang up to ride the outrage machine to fame and fortune while secretly cheering on the total dysfunction.

Sound familiar?   The state slowly slid out of financial control due to complete paralysis until the GOP demographics became so weak, a popular referendum finally wiped out gerrymandered districts and the state swung almost instantly to Democratic supermajorities in both houses.  Now that folks can actually govern again, and the economy is picking up on its own, Democrats get to take credit for the entire rebound and elimination of the deficit, even if that's not entirely fair, further cementing their lead.  It's hard to imagine how Republicans can possibly ever compete here again -- at least until the one-party system slowly and inevitably blows up on its own, but that may not be for decades.


Nope, the Terminator single-handedly saved Caeeforneea from the hippies. I saw it on Fox News, so it's true.

/Good post, though.
 
2013-07-02 12:37:28 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: Wait, we need tougher enforcement on people who use a program that they are ineligible to be on. unpossible!

This is downright comical and somewhat sad.

You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.


Reading doesn't seem to be his strongsuit.

Which is so funny since he's criticizing us for not reading the sources.
 
2013-07-02 12:38:46 AM  

o5iiawah: You found a small nugget or information or talking point you thought made your argument when as it turns out, your source agrees with me that there needs to be tougher enforcement of illegal immigrants who are caught on the program.


/facepalm

It's like a double-down of fail.
 
2013-07-02 12:38:47 AM  

Mrtraveler01: o5iiawah: Good god, do you even read the crap you post?

Citizenship Requirements

We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for SNAP.

So the fact that they're ineligible for SNAP is proof that illegal immigrants are using SNAP?


Oblig
 
2013-07-02 12:39:05 AM  

o5iiawah: The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.


You didn't scroll to the stop of that link huh? Let me make it easy to read for you.

SNAP (Food Stamps): Facts, Myths and Realities

It's saying that undocumented immigrants using SNAP is a myth.
 
2013-07-02 12:40:19 AM  
i474.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-02 12:40:23 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: You found a small nugget or information or talking point you thought made your argument when as it turns out, your source agrees with me that there needs to be tougher enforcement of illegal immigrants who are caught on the program.

/facepalm

It's like a double-down of fail.


This is pretty entertaining. I'm thinking of making some popcorn for the occasion.
 
2013-07-02 12:44:21 AM  

o5iiawah: Now, are you going to explain to me how someone without a SS#, or green card can legally work a job and pay federal income tax or are we done here?


They're ILLEGALLY working those jobs. The illegal or his shifty-ass lawbreaking employer or labor broker gives him a bogus SSN to cram through the paperwork.  Then the taxes withheld get sucked into the IRS and social security vortex never to be seen again by the guy using the bogus SSN.

  How about starting the enforcement crusade there where the crime is rampant and widespread, instead of on the vanishingly small number of illegals who use bogus ID for things like SNAP.  The vast majority of illegals try to have as little interaction with the government as humanly possible, as it's the easiest way to get your ass caught and tossed back over the fence.

/You know how to find the illegals on California's freeways?  They're the only ones not breaking the law.
 
2013-07-02 12:45:15 AM  

Fart_Machine: You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.


One doesnt need to sign up for a specific welfare program to enjoy all of the public benefits of clean air, water and military protection.  Again, I ask you to explain how someone without an SS # or green card can legally work and pay federal income taxes.

Fart_Machine: You're not very bright are you?  The site is talking about myths and misconceptions in relation to Food Stamps.  We need tougher enforcements on illegal immigrants using SNAP is a common myth you dunce.


The USDA only requires one person in the household be eligible and even that can be fudged pretty easily.

You were asking about federal programs that illegals can access?
 
2013-07-02 12:45:49 AM  
So you're another shiftless, lazy mexican trying to steal my JOB? 
/Go back to Africa, dirty librul hippie.


don't get all ruffled just because i took some low-paying job you didn't want anyway...
 
2013-07-02 12:46:23 AM  

Bonzo_1116: How about starting the enforcement crusade there where the crime is rampant and widespread, instead of on the vanishingly small number of illegals who use bogus ID for things like SNAP.  The vast majority of illegals try to have as little interaction with the government as humanly possible, as it's the easiest way to get your ass caught and tossed back over the fence.


Yeah, I only called for enforcement of that upstream.

Welcome to the party, Pal.
 
2013-07-02 12:48:30 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: You might want to provide a citation where illegals can get federal aid.  I've already done the homework for you and since that's not true you're full of shait.

The source you posted to try to back your pathetic arguments agrees with me that illegals on SNAP is a problem.

Seriously come back when you have better.


Don't you feel bad that this is what your life has come to?  Blatantly lying and trolling on the internet?  And not even doing it competently?
 
2013-07-02 12:48:34 AM  

Mrtraveler01: It's saying that undocumented immigrants using SNAP is a myth.


And the direct source I posted upstream says otherwise.

Why is the USDA encouraging Mexicans to apply for the program with "No proof of immigrant status" required?
 
2013-07-02 12:48:53 AM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.


Watching Republicans pretend to care about the feelings of legal immigrants would be amusing if it wasn't so painful. Hey, if you're so concerned about not slapping them in the face, why did we have to sue to stop "Sheriff Joe" from stopping all Hispanics and demanding proof of citizenship? You don't think that was a slap in the face to all those who have played by the rules?
 
2013-07-02 12:50:31 AM  

o5iiawah: Bonzo_1116: How about starting the enforcement crusade there where the crime is rampant and widespread, instead of on the vanishingly small number of illegals who use bogus ID for things like SNAP.  The vast majority of illegals try to have as little interaction with the government as humanly possible, as it's the easiest way to get your ass caught and tossed back over the fence.

Yeah, I only called for enforcement of that upstream.

Welcome to the party, Pal.


A ten-post tirade on illegals getting SNAP doesn't sound like employment enforcement to me.

Illegals getting SNAP is just a fart in the wind compared to the theft being perpetrated by American businesses.  At least the kids get government cheese with SNAP.
 
2013-07-02 12:51:36 AM  

Fart_Machine: Almost Everybody Poops: A path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is a slap in the face to all of those who have played by the rules, stood in line, and waited patiently to immigrate legally.

[www.democracia.org image 696x580]

Well except for these folks but they hated Castro so it was OK.


Bears repeating.

If Mexico was a communist dictatorship, the Republicans would be welcoming refugees with open arms...just to stick it to Communism.
 
2013-07-02 12:53:48 AM  

o5iiawah: Mrtraveler01: It's saying that undocumented immigrants using SNAP is a myth.

And the direct source I posted upstream says otherwise.

Why is the USDA encouraging Mexicans to apply for the program with "No proof of immigrant status" required?


Yeah it would've been nice if there was an English translation to that document.

Hard for me to get outraged if I can even understand what the document is saying.

Guess I can't count Judicial Watch for adding context to anything, just as long as I get outraged I suppose.
 
2013-07-02 12:59:45 AM  

o5iiawah: One doesnt need to sign up for a specific welfare program to enjoy all of the public benefits of clean air, water and military protection.


Oh for fark's sake you've moved the goal posts to the moon!  Bbbbbbbut they're stealing our precious air and water!!!1111

o5iiawah: The USDA only requires one person in the household be eligible and even that can be fudged pretty easily.


So now we've back-peddled on how illegals are eligible for SNAP.  Well OK then.

So now you're linking an article that an unspecified amount of people who might be illegal are using the emergency room?  Doesn't back up your original claim on huge increases in the price of produce but I guess that's something.  Perhaps then finding a path for citizenship for them would allow them to pay more taxes.

o5iiawah: Again, I ask you to explain how someone without an SS # or green card can legally work and pay federal income taxes.


Someone already pointed this out above that if they're using fraudulent SS# then their taxes are being taken out by the employer for services they'll never receive.
 
2013-07-02 01:00:11 AM  

Bonzo_1116: A ten-post tirade on illegals getting SNAP doesn't sound like employment enforcement to me.


Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.  When I point out that an illegal immigrant who pays no taxes enjoys all those things, he then gets uppity about all of the supposed programs that illegals dont technically qualify for even though anyone with 10 seconds to do a google search finds out they can access quite easily.

Food stamps aside.  Is an illegal immigrant contributing to the funding of the military? the department of education? the EPA that gives them clean water to drink?  If not, you are and you are paying for the services required for their needs as well.

This is why you're already paying $5 for an orange.
 
2013-07-02 01:02:38 AM  
This turned into a SNAP flamewar?  Seriously?  Let's debate who should have access to program that feeds people? I don't believe any of you are serious.  This is an exercise for some class, right?
 
2013-07-02 01:03:55 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.


What you going 100 rounds might look like.

phillips.blogs.com
 
2013-07-02 01:07:54 AM  

o5iiawah: When I point out that an illegal immigrant who pays no taxes enjoys all those things, he then gets uppity about all of the supposed programs that illegals dont technically qualify for even though anyone with 10 seconds to do a google search finds out they can access quite easily.


Actually it took me 10 seconds to find the source that proved you wrong.  However it took you four separate posts to make yourself look like a fool for reading it incorrectly.
 
2013-07-02 01:08:15 AM  
o5iiawah:

This is why you're already paying $5 for an orange.
 Are you talking about Bohner here? 5 dollar oranges? Where, the moon?
 
2013-07-02 01:09:03 AM  

Fart_Machine: Oh for fark's sake you've moved the goal posts to the moon!  Bbbbbbbut they're stealing our precious air and water!!!1111


I never moved the goalposts. That was my argument to begin with.  By simply existing in this country, you use government services and you ought to pay for them.  You enjoy a life free of invasion because we have police and military. If you're accused of a crime, you get a fair day in court and an attorney.  Chances are, your kid's school got a department of education grant to buy books or hire teachers to teach a nationally-focused curriculum.  Even if you dont have a kid in school, you benefit from an educated society.

You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it.  To use your arguments against you is satisfying.

Fart_Machine: Someone already pointed this out above that if they're using fraudulent SS# then their taxes are being taken out by the employer for services they'll never receive.


And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.
 
2013-07-02 01:10:21 AM  

o5iiawah: I never moved the goalposts. That was my argument to begin with. By simply existing in this country, you use government services and you ought to pay for them. You enjoy a life free of invasion because we have police and military. If you're accused of a crime, you get a fair day in court and an attorney. Chances are, your kid's school got a department of education grant to buy books or hire teachers to teach a nationally-focused curriculum. Even if you dont have a kid in school, you benefit from an educated society.

You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it. To use your arguments against you is satisfying.


So why bother lying about SNAP if this was your initial talking point?
 
2013-07-02 01:10:22 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: Let's debate who should have access to program that feeds people?


Never the debate.  If we have the program, wonderful. Lets create a logical path so that those who access it also contribute to it.
 
2013-07-02 01:10:36 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.

What you going 100 rounds might look like.

[phillips.blogs.com image 506x378]


No.

What 100 rounds of o5iiawwwwwaaaaaahhhh might look like:
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-02 01:11:05 AM  
o5iiawah:

And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.

And it looks like you received it quick enough.
 
2013-07-02 01:14:07 AM  

Weaver95: The House answer would not be "a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have," he said.

so the GOP response is to punish EVERYONE who is trying to immigrants no matter what their circumstances?  huh.  well at least its internally consistent - the GOP has the same views on public assistance, health care and the war on drugs.  They punish everyone, no exceptions - save for the rich of course.


wait...what punishment are you talking about?  Giving them a green card is a punishment now?  1st world problems indeed.
 
2013-07-02 01:17:18 AM  

o5iiawah: I never moved the goalposts.


You mean moving from SNAP and now to air and water?  Do you believe illegals are stealing your precious bodily fluids too?

o5iiawah: You diminish those things right now but none of it is free and just as the sun comes up in the morning, you'll be in the next thread down the hall demanding that some 1%er who enjoys all of it pay their "Fair share" for it. To use your arguments against you is satisfying.


You've sure kicked that straw man's ass on things I've never said.

o5iiawah:  And I've already demanded enforcement and crack down of companies that do this.

So they are paying federal taxes then.
 
2013-07-02 01:17:23 AM  

Mrtraveler01: So why bother lying about SNAP if this was your initial talking point?


I wasn't lying.  There are illegal immigrants that manage to access the program in the same way that employers provide false SS numbers to make their employee books look legitimate.
Illegal immigrants can also access SNAP if they live in a household with someone who is eligible
the USDA is also marketing the program to Mexican nationals with the caveat that immigration status is not considered.

I made it along with several other points that Fart_machine chooses to ignore.  When he cant answer me, he just plays the strawman card even though I am pretty convinced he isn't actually sure what that means in the first place.

Then I post (Again) that one doesn't have to draw on a specific benefit program to enjoy the protections and security of being the United States and that those protections and systems of laws are not free and he posted some crap about immigrants stealing clean air.  He'll be in the next 1%er thread pounding for higher taxes because without them, we'd all choke to death on coal plan pollution.

So yes, there's a cost to getting your cheap produce. That cost comes from subsidizing the services required of the people who live here and dont contribute to the federal tax coffers
 
2013-07-02 01:17:34 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: This turned into a SNAP flamewar?  Seriously?  Let's debate who should have access to program that feeds people? I don't believe any of you are serious.  This is an exercise for some class, right?


These are folks who defend to the death a business' right to hire the illegal workers that they scream they want to deport. Class left the building some time ago.
 
2013-07-02 01:23:21 AM  

Fart_Machine: So they are paying federal taxes then


They cant actually file taxes.
Their employer is "paying" taxes under false SS numbers, usually under-reporting wages and hours.
They dont pay into social security


So yeah, they arent paying Federal income taxes.
Are you done yet?

Fart_Machine: and now to air and water?  Do you believe illegals are stealing your precious bodily fluids too?


Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts.  All of that stuff costs money does it not?
 
2013-07-02 01:26:21 AM  

o5iiawah: Fart_Machine: So they are paying federal taxes then

They cant actually file taxes.
Their employer is "paying" taxes under false SS numbers, usually under-reporting wages and hours.
They dont pay into social security


So yeah, they arent paying Federal income taxes.
Are you done yet?

Fart_Machine: and now to air and water?  Do you believe illegals are stealing your precious bodily fluids too?

Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts.  All of that stuff costs money does it not?


media.tumblr.com

They don't pay bills in Russia,.
 
2013-07-02 01:30:05 AM  

o5iiawah: So yes, there's a cost to getting your cheap produce. That cost comes from subsidizing the services required of the people who live here and dont contribute to the federal tax coffers


No payroll tax?
 
2013-07-02 01:43:35 AM  

Mrtraveler01: o5iiawah: So yes, there's a cost to getting your cheap produce. That cost comes from subsidizing the services required of the people who live here and dont contribute to the federal tax coffers

No payroll tax?


And it's not like states ever use sales taxes. I mean, they just collect it, and it goes into the ether. It just disappears. It's not like illegals ever buy anything, after all...

What's interesting is that our Beamish Boy is actually looking close to defending the use of illegal labor as a means to keep price pressure down. Not like folks who use illegal labor--say in housing--EVER simply pocket the difference in labor cost, and still sell the house at local market rates, right? Not like those who produce food ever simply charge what their competition does, and pocket the difference in their captive labor, right?

Here's the thing: if your competition is already using legal labor, and you are gaming the system, your price pressure DOES have some influence on the costs of goods and services, but not that great a pressure. Released from that price pressure, the folks who are using illegal labor are going to feel the pinch, because their practices aren't as efficient as their competitors. They can then try to raise their rates, and then see the reverse of the pressure that they exerted on their competitors, but without the buffer that they had with artificially low wages, and without the efficacy of practices and procedures, they're going to be hurting, and consumers will dictate what they will bear for said goods.

At this point, o5iiawah, you're grasping at straws for arguments, again based on a conclusion that was arrived to without actual evidence. Gut doesn't count. Mild prejudice doesn't count. You may want to actually bone up on a bit of economics before coming back in with that sort of weak sauce. It makes people feel bad for you. Like you might need a helmet before typing. Just a thought.
 
2013-07-02 01:45:13 AM  

Nadie_AZ: skilbride: For what it's worth, my dissertation ended by saying the solution to immigration problems in the United States was not anything the government has come up with - it's to provide aid to the countries that cause the biggest problem and make their governments and economies solvent enough that people won't want to come here - and will still purchase from our countries and allow us to export our businesses there. :-P

I've been saying this for years. Nobody listens.


That won't work. In a lot of poor counties, notably in south America, the perception is that the cities hold all the jobs.

So you have massive migrations of people from the rural areas moving to the city looking for work. Unfortunately, there isn't that much work to be had. The perception of work doesn't meet the reality. So shanty towns spring up and you have slums like on Rio(I think that's the city).

Just because you make the grass greener on one side, may not change the other guy's mind.

The best way to fix undocumented workers staying here is by cracking down HARD on people that employe them illegally.

No jobs, no problems from undocumented workers. No granted the perception of work mght stil linger, but it's a better plan by far than nation building. Also gets right to the root of it.
 
2013-07-02 01:53:00 AM  

o5iiawah: They cant actually file taxes.
Their employer is "paying" taxes under false SS numbers, usually under-reporting wages and hours.
They dont pay into social security


No they can't file taxes.  It's being deducted from their paychecks by their employer.  Are you done yet?

o5iiawah: Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts. All of that stuff costs money does it not?


Something something payroll, sales taxes, and a variety of usage fees that can't be opted out.  Not everything comes from the Fed.  But I guess we can try to charge Mexico and Canada for the right to breathe our excess air.  At least what the illegals don't steal by respiration.
 
2013-07-02 01:54:38 AM  

Fart_Machine: o5iiawah: They cant actually file taxes.
Their employer is "paying" taxes under false SS numbers, usually under-reporting wages and hours.
They dont pay into social security

No they can't file taxes.  It's being deducted from their paychecks by their employer.  Are you done yet?

o5iiawah: Yes Air and water. And police, fire, medical, roads, the military and the courts. All of that stuff costs money does it not?

Something something payroll, sales taxes, and a variety of usage fees that can't be opted out.  Not everything comes from the Fed.  But I guess we can try to charge Mexico and Canada for the right to breathe our excess air.  At least what the illegals don't steal by respiration.


Alright, FM, you got a blue finally for that one ;)
 
2013-07-02 01:55:48 AM  

o5iiawah: I made it along with several other points that Fart_machine chooses to ignore. When he cant answer me, he just plays the strawman card even though I am pretty convinced he isn't actually sure what that means in the first place.


o5iiawah: Fart_Machine will go 100 rounds saying that by simply existing and breathing in this country, you owe a pound of flesh to fund clean air, clean water, schools, police, fire, military, courts and a basic way of life and if you dont like it, move to Somalia.


Are you trolling or stupid.  There really can be no other explanation.
 
2013-07-02 01:59:20 AM  

bwilson27: Alright, FM, you got a blue finally for that one ;)


venturebeat.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-02 03:20:59 AM  
Illegal immigrants also pay real estate taxes because they pay rent.

Set up a guest worker program, crack down on employers and the problem of illegal immigration will all but disappear.
 
2013-07-02 05:16:06 AM  
Why does the House have casino carpet?
 
2013-07-02 05:37:57 AM  
As a green card holder, i'd just like to point out that the difference between a green card and citizenship is fairly minimal, particularly when you compare it to the difference between undocumented status and a green card.

If this is the compromise they want, I'm sure most would be fine with it.
 
2013-07-02 06:54:12 AM  

Zeppelininthesky: I hope you like $5.00 tomatoes and $7.00 oranges.


I'm an American living in Switzerland, a country with one of the highest wages in the world. For example, minimum wage is roughly $25/hour. Much of the produce is grown locally (the Swiss are remarkably protective of their farms and farmers) and costs, while somewhat higher than the US, are not unreasonable.

Costs for fresh, Swiss-grown fruits and vegetables are maybe 20-30% higher than in the US. US agriculture has enormous economies of scale: many farms in the US are large-scale, factory farms while farms in Switzerland tend to be smaller, family-run farms. It seems quite likely that even if wages for farm works in the US increased significantly, there'd be only a small change in prices to buyers of fruits and vegetables.

If having to pay a few extra cents for fruits and vegetables, which are already incredibly inexpensive, means that farm workers can earn a decent living I for one have no problem with that.
 
2013-07-02 07:03:33 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: Are white countries allowed to have laws about immigration or not? Are they allowed to have sovereignty?


Are we a white country?
What does that even mean?
 
2013-07-02 07:05:10 AM  

casual disregard: Why does the House have casino carpet?


Little known fact: between the hours of 6pm and 6am the House doubles as an (invitation only of course) high stakes casino. The seating can be easily converted to blackjack and craps tables and the podiums become million dollar jackpot slot machines. Some people have a problem with this, but that's only because they do not get to take part and are just jealous.
 
2013-07-02 07:15:56 AM  

Without Fail: God-is-a-Taco: Are white countries allowed to have laws about immigration or not? Are they allowed to have sovereignty?

Are we a white country?
What does that even mean?


It means God-is-a-Taco is a Racist Republican (I know, redundant).

It's a good thing they speak their minds. It's best when everyone knows the truth.
 
2013-07-02 07:33:14 AM  

VJStinger: casual disregard: Why does the House have casino carpet?

Little known fact: between the hours of 6pm and 6am the House doubles as an (invitation only of course) high stakes casino. The seating can be easily converted to blackjack and craps tables and the podiums become million dollar jackpot slot machines. Some people have a problem with this, but that's only because they do not get to take part and are just jealous.


I hear they get free drinks and health care.
 
2013-07-02 07:34:41 AM  

Lorelle: I don't see why the GOP doesn't do what Saint Reagan did back in 1986.


Because, like their memory of The Bible, they only remember the specific parts of the Reagan presidency that are convenient to them.
 
2013-07-02 08:31:20 AM  
It is amazing to me to see the argument about undocumented immigrants not paying their fair share in taxes in this thread. Where is the outrage about companies that pay either no or essentially no taxes? The outrage at hedge fund managers who pay substantially less as a percentage of their income than wage slaves in America, through the carried interest loophole?
 
2013-07-02 08:42:53 AM  

skilbride: 2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)


There's some serious [Citation Needed] in there.
 
2013-07-02 09:17:04 AM  

sdd2000: It is amazing to me to see the argument about undocumented immigrants not paying their fair share in taxes in this thread. Where is the outrage about companies that pay either no or essentially no taxes? The outrage at hedge fund managers who pay substantially less as a percentage of their income than wage slaves in America, through the carried interest loophole?


Because those rich people* who aren't paying their fair share of taxes are rich and white, while those other people who aren't paying their fair share of taxes are dirty brown people.  I hope this now makes sense to you.

*"People" in this case includes all corporations
 
2013-07-02 09:28:44 AM  
Weaver95:
And if/when someone complains or fights against such heavy handed authoritarian thinking, the GOP screams bloody murder, claims that 'libruls don't fight fair' and then cheats like a bunch of mofos to get their way.  any protest - ANY objection, no matter how reasonable or well considered, is considered a direct personal attack by each and every republican in the hierarchy.  at the same time, protesters are also considered laughable, weak and dismissed as having bought their ipads from mommy and daddy and are to be given a cookie and sent home with a firm push on the shoulder.

Yeah, that's pretty much how authoritarians work.
 
2013-07-02 09:45:06 AM  

SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that


Exactly, I do not understand the conventional wisdom on this issue. The Republicans are against giving a pass to people who break the law.

It's that simple. Why would Mexicans suddenly vote for Republicans who supported amnesty? I just don't see the correlation.

Mexicans have a wealth of other reasons to not vote Republican.
 
2013-07-02 09:45:29 AM  

hubiestubert: And it's not like states ever use sales taxes. I mean, they just collect it, and it goes into the ether. It just disappears. It's not like illegals ever buy anything, after all...


Local sales taxes have nothing to do with the funding of certain federal programs which provide services that all citizens enjoy.  The military doesn't get its paychecks from Bed Bath and beyond charging you 7% tax on a comforter.  That goes to your state or town which has nothing to do with the argument at hand.  So there's that.

Fart_Machine: Something something payroll, sales taxes, and a variety of usage fees that can't be opted out.  Not everything comes from the Fed.  But I guess we can try to charge Mexico and Canada for the right to breathe our excess air.  At least what the illegals don't steal by respiration.


Yes, but we dont export our system of legal protections, patent laws, military, education and homeland security apparatus to Canada.
You still wont answer me on who pays for everything else.

You see, not everything comes from the fed.  That is why I differentiated every tax statement with things provided by the federal government and prefaced every tax argument with federal income tax.  You also asked about the payroll tax (Which funds social security) so please explain how this is paid by someone without a social security number who gets cash under the table from their boss who reports false names, SS numbers, hours and wages.

Im aware that there are local sales taxes.  Good thing I never once argued that illegal immigrants dont pay local sales taxes.
Or do you not know the difference between local sales taxes, the payroll tax or the federal income tax?  I'm beginning to think no.

Calling it 'Trolling' is code for "I'm being a petulant prick and cant answer so even though he asked about how the military gets paid, blah blah blah Canada steals air"
 
2013-07-02 09:53:50 AM  

johnnyrocket: SecretAgentWoman: If they don't pass it, current citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in the next election.

If they DO pass it, current and future citizens of Hispanic descent will vote Democrat in future elections.

Republicans are just hosed for this demographic for the foreseeable future.

/I'm ok with that

Exactly, I do not understand the conventional wisdom on this issue. The Republicans are against giving a pass to people who break the law.


Unless of course they are 1) defense contractors; 2) hedge fund managers; 3) bank presidents and/or 4)former congressmen or staffers.

Mexicans have a wealth of other reasons to not vote Republican.
 
2013-07-02 10:28:43 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: If Republicans were serious about minimizing illegals, they'd punish the businesses that hire them.


And you (much like myself) already realize that is why the Republicans won't allow immigration reform to pass.  They like it just the way it is, where a company can hire on illegal aliens for pennies on the dollar (which also helps to drive down wages for American workers), then either have INS come in and ship them home should they try to argue for rights, or just keep them in what is nothing more than modern day slavery.

Businesses like it just the way it is.  They get a cheap source of labor, and one that they truly hold every bit of power over and can do with as they please.
 
2013-07-02 10:36:12 AM  

o5iiawah: Local sales taxes have nothing to do with the funding of certain federal programs which provide services that all citizens enjoy. The military doesn't get its paychecks from Bed Bath and beyond charging you 7% tax on a comforter. That goes to your state or town which has nothing to do with the argument at hand. So there's that.


Because the military is preventing that inevitable invasion by Russia North Korea you saw in Red Dawn.  Virtually all of our military engagements are overseas and have nothing to do with protecting the US.  Try again.

o5iiawah: You also asked about the payroll tax (Which funds social security) so please explain how this is paid by someone without a social security number who gets cash under the table from their boss who reports false names, SS numbers, hours and wages.


Do you believe that the boss who reports those false names, SS numbers, hours and wages pays the taxes on that from the goodness of their own heart or do they still extract it from the wages of the illegals.

o5iiawah: Calling it 'Trolling' is code for "I'm being a petulant prick and cant answer so even though he asked about how the military gets paid, blah blah blah Canada steals air"


No calling it trolling is when you make an obvious strawman argument "blah, blah, pound of flesh, move to Somalia" only to knock it down and then claim you don't understand what a strawman is.  The other alternative is that you're an idiot.  So far the jury is out.
 
2013-07-02 10:41:43 AM  

o5iiawah: Yes, but we dont export our system of legal protections, patent laws, military, education and homeland security apparatus to Canada.
You still wont answer me on who pays for everything else.


Um yes we do.  As an ally we export all of those things either directly (if someone from Canada violates the law on US soil or US workers who work in Canada)  or indirectly (by sharing our intelligence and we certainly would defend Canada with our military should the need arise).  Any other stupid comments you'd like to make?

Buy yes, I did answer you and several others have answered as well.  Just because it doesn't fit what you'd like to hear in that echo chamber you live in doesn't make it not answer.
 
2013-07-02 10:49:40 AM  

skilbride: Infernalist: Just curious, are you against citizens sending money to family overseas, or are you just against illegal immigrants doing it?

I'm against citizens doing it as well, but citizens tend to do it at a much lower rate for two reasons:

1.  The majority of citizens have their family here.
2.  The majority of citizens who come here legally tend to do it with entire families.  (They bring their grandmothers and grandfathers with them.)

The problem with one guy jumping a fence, hopping on a boat, or sneaking on a plane is that often he's not bringing his children, his wife, his mother here with him.  He's making money in this country not to save to bring them over (because he doesn't have a legal means to do so) but to make enough to set them up with a better situation in their home country.

I mean, DC has a large problem with this.  (Really any area that has a lot of construction or overly wealthy people does.)  In the course of my studies I spend a significant amount of time talking to people at the day labor center and most of them were looking at this as a stop gap to going back home.  They only wanted to raise enough money to get them in a better position in their country.


You clearly have never talked to immigrants from the first half of the 20th century.  The general behavior was someone comes over, finds work, finds they can make it here, and they'd send for their family.  We've created a set of stupid rules that prevents that.

Here's the rules as it should be:

Show up, sign up, start working.

Yup, get your SS#, declare yourself a US citizen and get to work.

Anything else is stupid.  The only time there should be limits is if you want to show up and not be a US citizen.  Then you have to get a work visa.  Otherwise come on in, bring the family too when you can.

Red herring arguments include:
- crime
- drugs
- drain on resources
- der takin owr jerbs
- spies
- terrorists

so don't bother spouting any of those - you just look stupid.
 
2013-07-02 12:39:18 PM  

clambam: "The House answer would not be 'a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have,' he said."

You know, they always bring this up and, given that for the repubs the plural of anecdote is data, I would like to hear of an example, one single farking example, of someone who patiently waited for decades to immigrate lawfully into the United States. That person does not exist and never has. Legal immigrants are either wealthy white Europeans or people with special skills and talents who can get a green card. The poor huddled masses yearning to be free are shiat out of luck unless they climb a fence or skip out on a student or tourist visa.


I was born in PI and my family moved to the states when i was 3.  we came here legally, my aunt on my mom's side was citizen and sponsored our family.  we finally got our green cards when i was 13 and had to wait another 5 years before we could apply for citizenship.  since i was 18 i had to apply for citizenship on my own.  after a bunch of paperwork, interviews, tests and years and years and years and years of just simply waiting, i was finally sworn in as a citizen 09/24/2009,  i was 27.  so it took me over 20 years to become a citizen.
 
2013-07-02 02:05:59 PM  
DeusFlac:

I was born in PI and my family moved to the states when i was 3.  we came here legally, my aunt on my mom's side was citizen and sponsored our family.  we finally got our green cards when i was 13 and had to wait another 5 years before we could apply for citizenship.  since i was 18 i had to apply for citizenship on my own.  after a bunch of paperwork, interviews, tests and years and years and years and years of just simply waiting, i was finally sworn in as a citizen 09/24/2009,  i was 27.  so it took me over 20 years to become a citfamilies route to immigration have been?

Without the sponsoring aunt, what would your families path to immigration have looked like?
 
2013-07-02 07:25:50 PM  

DeusFlac: clambam: "The House answer would not be 'a special pathway to citizenship where people who are here unlawfully get something that people who have worked for decades to immigrate lawfully do not have,' he said."

You know, they always bring this up and, given that for the repubs the plural of anecdote is data, I would like to hear of an example, one single farking example, of someone who patiently waited for decades to immigrate lawfully into the United States. That person does not exist and never has. Legal immigrants are either wealthy white Europeans or people with special skills and talents who can get a green card. The poor huddled masses yearning to be free are shiat out of luck unless they climb a fence or skip out on a student or tourist visa.

I was born in PI and my family moved to the states when i was 3.  we came here legally, my aunt on my mom's side was citizen and sponsored our family.  we finally got our green cards when i was 13 and had to wait another 5 years before we could apply for citizenship.  since i was 18 i had to apply for citizenship on my own.  after a bunch of paperwork, interviews, tests and years and years and years and years of just simply waiting, i was finally sworn in as a citizen 09/24/2009,  i was 27.  so it took me over 20 years to become a citizen.


No, it took you nine years to become a citizen because from the age of 3 to 18 you could not become a citizen in any case. It took you less than ten years, certainly not "decades," How long did your parents wait? I presume they became citizens before you did. Nobody's suggesting illegal aliens show up at the local courthouse and get sworn in as citizens. My guess is that their wait will be about as long as yours was.
 
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