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(BBC)   Millions of Egyptians turned out today to protest the Muslim Brotherhood and-- wait, hang on, Kanye has something to say about the Paula Deen controversy   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line 79
    More: Interesting, Morsi, Cairo's Tahrir Square, Muslim Brotherhood, Paula Deen, Egypt, Kanye West, Port Said, electoral law  
•       •       •

2319 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jul 2013 at 12:23 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-30 10:18:54 PM  
Is this going to amount to anything, or will we need to wait until their next election?
 
2013-06-30 10:43:21 PM  

themindiswatching: Is this going to amount to anything, or will we need to wait until their next election?


I don't think Morsi is gonna step down voluntarily before then so these protests will likely continue to flare up until then unless things get so bad the Military has to step in at which point all bets are off.
 
2013-07-01 12:07:08 AM  
Dear Egyptians,

This is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then you keep them until the next time you get to vote. Maybe next time you'll think a little bit before you vote for whoever it is that promises you the most stuff.

Hell... we haven't figured it out yet in the US yet... so good luck!
 
2013-07-01 12:32:58 AM  

zamboni: Dear Egyptians,

This is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then you keep them until the next time you get to vote. Maybe next time you'll think a little bit before you vote for whoever it is that promises you the most stuff.

Hell... we haven't figured it out yet in the US yet... so good luck!


Dear Americans

No, this is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then if they renege on their promises you stop watching American Idol for a couple of weeks and get shiat straitened out. Maybe next time some two bit politician will think a little bit before before not delivering on what he promised.

farkin' A the US hasn't figured it out yet.
 
2013-07-01 12:33:05 AM  
Can someone summarize, preferably with cites to non-aligned news orgs, what grievances warrant undemocratic overthrow of a duly elected government?
 
2013-07-01 12:36:25 AM  
the opposition National Salvation Front (NSF)

The NSF is among liberal and secular opposition groups


If they're secular why do they have "Salvation" in their name?
 
2013-07-01 12:38:08 AM  

Zagloba: Can someone summarize, preferably with cites to non-aligned news orgs, what grievances warrant undemocratic overthrow of a duly elected government?


Here's Al Jazeera's take.
 
2013-07-01 12:46:57 AM  

Zagloba: Can someone summarize, preferably with cites to non-aligned news orgs, what grievances warrant undemocratic overthrow of a duly elected government?


1. if you believe that there never was a real choice in the first place
    a. the candidates always seem to come from the same families
    ..... better yet
theres this

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, - That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. - Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
 
2013-07-01 12:48:06 AM  

zamboni: Dear Egyptians,

This is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then you keep them until the next time you get to vote. Maybe next time you'll think a little bit before you vote for whoever it is that promises you the most stuff.

Hell... we haven't figured it out yet in the US yet... so good luck!


Yeah, no not really.  Not at all, actually.  Wow, you have a terrible idea of how democracy works.

What's happening in Egypt right now is an excellent example of the Freedom to Peaceably  Assemble and Protest.  It's an excellent example of the Freedom of Speech.  It's an excellent example of the Freedom of Movement within their country.

This is an excellent example to the rest of the ME of what Democracy is all about.  Hell, if you want to get bluntly, painfully, honest...We Americans could learn a lot from watching them in action.

They elected a President and a bunch of Congressmen that immediately ignored what they'd campaigned on and immediately set about trying to accomplish an agenda that they'd never campaigned on, working to try and consolidate their power within the government.

And now, the people are going 'oh hell no' and raging to high heaven about it.  Good On Them.

If we'd had the balls to do this back in 2002, maybe we wouldn't have had to suffer through the 2008 recession.
 
2013-07-01 12:52:32 AM  
bindlestiff2600: that doesn't answer my question.
 
2013-07-01 12:55:27 AM  
side note - and then ill lay off

it can be argued that Egypt is a victim of past success
more population now than their economy can feed or allow opportunity for
the present gov't is compounding that with borrowing money to delay the inevitable
so when that system snaps it will be under maximum stress
 
2013-07-01 12:55:28 AM  

PonceAlyosha: Zagloba: Can someone summarize, preferably with cites to non-aligned news orgs, what grievances warrant undemocratic overthrow of a duly elected government?

Here's Al Jazeera's take.


*click*

But their main complaint was the worsening economy, which has been in free-fall since Morsi took office, with the Egyptian pound losing nearly 20 percent of its value and industry crippled by fuel and electricity shortages.

Ah, "It's the economy, stupid"?

Hungry people are rarely happy people.

From the reports I'm hearing on the CBC it sounds like the more moderates and secular voters who make up the bulk of the protesters are largely unorganized compared to the MB despite their numbers.  Meanwhile Morsi is being criticized from the left for going to far in terms of being a religious based society while more extreme and radical types on the right are biatching he hasn't gone far enough. Meanwhile the military who really ran the country throughout Mubarak's reign are getting ready to react to whatever happens.

The protesters are saying they aren't going anywhere and Morsi says the same right back to them.

And tanks roll in the background.

The odds of this ending any time soon or well at all are about what you'd get betting on Generals over the Globetrotters.
 
2013-07-01 12:56:09 AM  

PonceAlyosha: Zagloba: Can someone summarize, preferably with cites to non-aligned news orgs, what grievances warrant undemocratic overthrow of a duly elected government?

Here's Al Jazeera's take.


Ok. I know it wasn't you who mentioned reneging on promises, but I really don't see from that article what Morsi's done that's worth burning the democratic process down.
 
2013-07-01 01:00:16 AM  
She's a 66 year old woman from Savanah. If she's not a little, passively, racist there's something wrong with her.

DOWN WITH MORSI!
 
2013-07-01 01:00:57 AM  

Zagloba: bindlestiff2600: that doesn't answer my question.


sorry it seemed clear to me -
could you elaborate as to what you are looking for

   (note- something that might apply - just offering)(a government is believed by some to be an enity in its own right - many here believe that the govt is the people and thus may be changed at any time)
 
2013-07-01 01:01:34 AM  

themindiswatching: Is this going to amount to anything, or will we need to wait until their next election?


As I understand it, these protests are larger than the ones that triggered the revolution. If Morsi is not careful he's going to find his head on a pike. It seems his supporters are widely outnumbered.
 
2013-07-01 01:04:42 AM  
--wait, hang on, Kanye has something to say about the Paula Deen controversy

Wendy Davis? doesn't ring a bell...

/proposition whatchacallit did whatnow?
 
2013-07-01 01:06:09 AM  

quatchi: And tanks roll in the background.


Morsi better hope the tanks don't roll.

The Egyptian Army has a refreshingly good attitude about ousting dictators when the people demand it.

/much easier way to solve the problem than wading into millions of protestors with tanks
 
2013-07-01 01:09:32 AM  

Al Hashshashin: quatchi: And tanks roll in the background.

Morsi better hope the tanks don't roll.

The Egyptian Army has a refreshingly good attitude about ousting dictators when the people demand it.

/much easier way to solve the problem than wading into millions of protesters with tanks


Makes sense to me.

Tour Guide: The enemy surrounded the fort, and said that if the captain was sent out, the rest would be spared.
Bart: What did they do?
Tour Guide: They sent him out!
Bart: Was he killed?
Tour Guide: And how! That's why they call it 'Fort Sensible'.
 
2013-07-01 01:11:04 AM  

Zagloba: PonceAlyosha: Zagloba: Can someone summarize, preferably with cites to non-aligned news orgs, what grievances warrant undemocratic overthrow of a duly elected government?

Here's Al Jazeera's take.

Ok. I know it wasn't you who mentioned reneging on promises, but I really don't see from that article what Morsi's done that's worth burning the democratic process down.


I think it's more what he hasn't done. The economy is capsizing, no one has any money, armed gangs rule the streets, there are no cops, food shortages, fuel shortages, power outages, etc.
 
2013-07-01 01:14:01 AM  

quatchi: Fort Sensible


I chuckled audibly.

We must therefore be in some semblance of agreement.

/carry on
 
2013-07-01 01:17:28 AM  
A question for the Egypt-knowledgeable farkers...how functional are their provincial/local governments, and are these chosen democratically?

They will have a biatch of a time transitioning without a local tradition, especially because the only two groups with any political traction and experience are the Muslim Brotherhood and the old kleptocrats that used to run the joint with the army.

shiatwarma vs babagadouche.
 
2013-07-01 01:20:59 AM  

quatchi: From the reports I'm hearing on the CBC it sounds like the more moderates and secular voters who make up the bulk of the protesters are largely unorganized compared to the MB despite their numbers.


That's not new. The MB was pretty much the only form of political opposition allowed under Mubarak, which is why it manifests as a much more moderate organization in Egypt than elsewhere. It drew political opponents of Mubarak, regardless of whether they were hardcore Islamists or not. That's also why it has the huge organizing edge- do you have any idea how building an organized political infrastructure from scratch is? the MB already had all that built, with leadership in place, while the Liberal and secular crowd had only just gained the freedom to discuss issues openly.
 
2013-07-01 01:22:41 AM  

cptjeff: do you have any idea how difficult building an organized political infrastructure from scratch is?


Left out a word. It's usually time for bed when I start doing crap like that.
 
2013-07-01 01:31:01 AM  

cptjeff: cptjeff: do you have any idea how difficult building an organized political infrastructure from scratch is?

Left out a word. It's usually time for bed when I start doing crap like that.


I tend to add extra words when I get sleepy.

I got that in context and agree that's a pretty good summation of where Egypt is at right now.

Al Hashshashin: quatchi: Fort Sensible

I chuckled audibly.

We must therefore be in some semblance of agreement.

/carry on


*internet fist bump*

Wow, agreeing with people on Fark twice in a row feels weird.

I'm gonna hafta go make fun of a troll now on some other thread in order to gain some semblance of normalcy.
 
2013-07-01 01:42:57 AM  
for those of you noting that they should stick to the democratcially elected fellow till his end of term....you are not aware of what he and his cabinet have been up to.   Pretty much a total suspension of the rule of law and commiting Ultra Viraes (beyond his power) actions.  The guy and his boys are trying to set up a dictatorship and have proven themselves to be utterly incompotent (the garbage trucks aren't running, the corruption has gotten worse and now they are trying to incite war with their neighbors too).   It's getting bad over there and I applaud the people for rising back up and making the effort to change.  maybe this time the shiat shoveling church/mosque goers will stfu and vote correctly now that they've seen their choices true colors.
 
2013-07-01 01:52:10 AM  
Subby

www.davesdime.com

"Leave Yeesuz alone!"


/someone had to
//now I need a shower
///good night
 
2013-07-01 01:55:24 AM  

Al Hashshashin: zamboni: Dear Egyptians,

This is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then you keep them until the next time you get to vote. Maybe next time you'll think a little bit before you vote for whoever it is that promises you the most stuff.

Hell... we haven't figured it out yet in the US yet... so good luck!

Dear Americans

No, this is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then if they renege on their promises you stop watching American Idol for a couple of weeks and get shiat straitened out. Maybe next time some two bit politician will think a little bit before before not delivering on what he promised.

farkin' A the US hasn't figured it out yet.


No, that isn't how democracy works. Not even representative democracy. What you all have in Egypt is an EMERGING democracy that hasn't ironed out all the kinks yet. In America, when we don't like our duly elected officials at the top, we've got lots of duly elected officials underneath them who have enough power in their own right that the guy on top can't just run roughshod over the people. Egypt has been under a (mostly) benign dictator for quite some time, and your top dog doesn't have the checks and balances under him that OUR president has.

So if Barack Obama doesn't deliver on the McDonald's cheeseburgers, nobody is going to either riot in the streets OR "peaceably assemble" because he "reneged on his promises"--because he didn't MAKE any promises that really impacted anyone's lives in America. Because he can't--there's Congress and state governments and local governments getting in his way. (promises to get out of Gitmo and balance the budget notwithstanding) Our President can't overthrow the rule of law like Morsi did, so there's no need for demonstrations in Tahrir Square.

Emerging democracies don't have mostly honest Congresses and mostly reliable local governments yet. So they have to go this route--I'm not saying it's wrong. What would be wrong would be for anyone to say "Wellup! Guess that democracy thing didn't work, better put the dictatorship back in place!" and give the army all the bayonets back. For gods' sake, don't go voting in anyone who promises cheeseburgers with extra soy sauce. But do vote again. Don't let some tinpot dictator with lots of stars on his collar say now is the time for a strong military presence--keep after democracy. But it's going to take a while to get US-style democracy working there.

Just don't give up on the whole idea.
 
2013-07-01 02:01:31 AM  
Don't blame me, I voted for Nyarlathotep!
 
2013-07-01 02:13:35 AM  

zamboni: This is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then you keep them until the next time you get to vote


Actually, in a Democracy you have the rights to fee speech and to peaceably assemble, which is what they're doing in Egypt. We in the US have gotten fat and complacent while watching American Idol year after year, doing nothing while our civil rights disappear and our democracy is replaced with a plutocracy. If only Americans understood how democracy works as well as those protesting Egyptians do.
 
2013-07-01 02:15:54 AM  

Gyrfalcon: So if Barack Obama doesn't deliver on the McDonald's cheeseburgers, nobody is going to either riot in the streets OR "peaceably assemble" because he "reneged on his promises"--because he didn't MAKE any promises that really impacted anyone's lives in America. Because he can't--there's Congress and state governments and local governments getting in his way. (promises to get out of Gitmo and balance the budget notwithstanding) Our President can't overthrow the rule of law like Morsi did, so there's no need for demonstrations in Tahrir Square.


Yeah, I was just thinking that.   bromah said that the garbage trucks aren't running.

What's the president have to do with garbage trucks?  Is he some low level city counsel member, as well at proto-dictator?

But, well, this really kinda says that Democracy works best when there is a lot of bureaucracy and levels, and the people only have really contact with the lowest ones.

Huh, kinda like America.
 
2013-07-01 02:16:43 AM  

Gyrfalcon: No, that isn't how democracy works.


My sarcastic reply notwithstanding, of course it's not. That's the point.

This is what should happen when democracy isn't working.

My only point.

/i get a little knee-jerky when it comes to secularism
 
2013-07-01 02:18:21 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: zamboni: This is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then you keep them until the next time you get to vote

Actually, in a Democracy you have the rights to fee speech and to peaceably assemble, which is what they're doing in Egypt. We in the US have gotten fat and complacent while watching American Idol year after year, doing nothing while our civil rights disappear and our democracy is replaced with a plutocracy. If only Americans understood how democracy works as well as those protesting Egyptians do.


We have the right to assemble and speak, in designated areas, with the proper permits.

Good enough, right?  Can't have a functioning democracy without tons of burdensome laws!
 
2013-07-01 02:19:58 AM  

Gyrfalcon: So if Barack Obama doesn't deliver on the McDonald's cheeseburgers


and good job minimizing the recent revelations about President Obama's regard for privacy.

I went to great lengths to vote for Mr. Obama, twice, from out of the country.

/it's sad that it's come down to the best of two evils
 
2013-07-01 02:22:55 AM  

Al Hashshashin: and good job minimizing the recent revelations about President Obama's regard for privacy.


Those revelations are inadmissible in the court of public opinion, because Snowden didn't have grounds to bring the allegations, and also is a traitor douchebag.
 
2013-07-01 02:32:49 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: zamboni: This is how democracy works. You vote for someone and then you keep them until the next time you get to vote

Actually, in a Democracy you have the rights to fee speech and to peaceably assemble, which is what they're doing in Egypt. We in the US have gotten fat and complacent while watching American Idol year after year, doing nothing while our civil rights disappear and our democracy is replaced with a plutocracy. If only Americans understood how democracy works as well as those protesting Egyptians do.


The original Tea Party movement (before it was co-op'ed by religious reactionaries and big money interests) and the Occupy movement were recent American attempts but they sadly they couldn't gain enough traction with people. Well, the farking Tea Party 2.0 has much to the chagrin of sanity.
 
2013-07-01 02:36:46 AM  

sendtodave: traitor douchebag


thanks for quickly and decidedly indicating your status as a troll/dumbass.

It makes the mental ignore process so much more efficient and effortless.

/Snowden may have been these things, doesn't matter
 
2013-07-01 02:38:06 AM  

Al Hashshashin: sendtodave: traitor douchebag

thanks for quickly and decidedly indicating your status as a troll/dumbass.

It makes the mental ignore process so much more efficient and effortless.

/Snowden may have been these things, doesn't matter


Oy me, that's the joke.  It shouldn't matter.
 
2013-07-01 02:45:38 AM  

sendtodave: the joke


ah ... troll then.

/kicks broken sarcasm meter
 
2013-07-01 02:51:35 AM  
Millions of Egyptians are revolting!
 
2013-07-01 03:10:50 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Millions of Egyptians are revolting!


Are they ever!
 
2013-07-01 03:21:16 AM  

fusillade762: the opposition National Salvation Front (NSF)

The NSF is among liberal and secular opposition groups

If they're secular why do they have "Salvation" in their name?


because sometimes salvation.
 
2013-07-01 03:35:28 AM  
I somehow knew this thread could be counted on to be a "Cover Obama's Butt" thread. After all, he was a huge supporter of the so called Arab Spring and we wouldn't want to admit that he F'd up again.

It's also sort of amusing because everyone with sense said that the Muslim Brotherhood was going to take over and we were declared crazy and paranoid and such. It's also amazing to me that people rising up against what they feel is a betrayal of what they were fought for the first time are dismissed because this is a 'duly elected government', but that's only amazing because the people saying it had no problem screaming bloody murder about their 'duly elected government' from about Nov of 2000 to about Nov of 2008 and they continue to cry about their 'duly elected government' provided its the House they're talking about.

But anyone else? They just need to shut up and get over it and most of all don't question Obama the Chosen and his infinite wisdom.
 
2013-07-01 03:42:02 AM  

Dr.Zom: Zagloba: PonceAlyosha: Zagloba: Can someone summarize, preferably with cites to non-aligned news orgs, what grievances warrant undemocratic overthrow of a duly elected government?

Here's Al Jazeera's take.

Ok. I know it wasn't you who mentioned reneging on promises, but I really don't see from that article what Morsi's done that's worth burning the democratic process down.

I think it's more what he hasn't done. The economy is capsizing, no one has any money, armed gangs rule the streets, there are no cops, food shortages, fuel shortages, power outages, etc.


So you are saying it is a lot like Newark in a tame night?
 
2013-07-01 03:42:35 AM  
That's interesting and imma let you finish but paula deen is the most racially insensitive female dog of all time!
 
2013-07-01 03:45:45 AM  

Lanadapter: That's interesting and imma let you finish but paula deen is the most racially insensitive female dog of all time!


Sorry, that position is already filled by this donut hole.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/taylor-chapman-dunkin-donuts-vir al -video-856341
 
2013-07-01 03:48:27 AM  

quatchi: From the reports I'm hearing on the CBC it sounds like the more moderates and secular voters who make up the bulk of the protesters are largely unorganized compared to the MB despite their numbers.  Meanwhile Morsi is being criticized from the left for going to far in terms of being a religious based society while more extreme and radical types on the right are biatching he hasn't gone far enough. Meanwhile the military who really ran the country throughout Mubarak's reign are getting ready to react to whatever happens.


Not necessarily. We don't know the affiliation of most of the protesters. To be frank, Liberalism isn't that popular in Egypt, they got 2/3s of the salafi vote, and salafis don't even believe in elections (that's not to say that Liberals can't win in egypt, they can, but not because of their liberal policies).
 
2013-07-01 03:50:41 AM  

randomjsa: Obama


One does not simply troll by copypasta.
 
2013-07-01 04:11:09 AM  
thot i was done here
but just ran across this


Manshiyat Naser/Garbage City

This area of Cairo, inhabited largely by a community of Coptic Christains known as the Zabbaleen, <a data-cke-saved-href="http://urbanigloos.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/garba ge-city/" target="_blank">is completely packed with trash. But it's not necessarily due to a failure of public services or slumlike conditions. It's an ecosystem created by economics. Many of the Zabbaleen make a living sorting the city's trash. People live and work alongside the garbage, and every space not occupied by garbage is taken up with livestock or makeshift gardens. Some families had as many as 100 garbage-eating pigs living in their homes, until the Egyptian government launched a http://www.arabwestreport.info/?q=gallery&g2_itemId=2689" target="_blank">new pig-slaughtering policy. The government also recently privatized garbage collection, giving the contract to foreign companies - which turned right around and outsourced the job to the Zabbaleen, who are getting less money than before. Image at top of post by
 
2013-07-01 04:37:48 AM  

randomjsa: I somehow knew this thread could be counted on to be a "Cover Obama's Butt" thread. After all, he was a huge supporter of the so called Arab Spring and we wouldn't want to admit that he F'd up again.

It's also sort of amusing because everyone with sense said that the Muslim Brotherhood was going to take over and we were declared crazy and paranoid and such. It's also amazing to me that people rising up against what they feel is a betrayal of what they were fought for the first time are dismissed because this is a 'duly elected government', but that's only amazing because the people saying it had no problem screaming bloody murder about their 'duly elected government' from about Nov of 2000 to about Nov of 2008 and they continue to cry about their 'duly elected government' provided its the House they're talking about.

But anyone else? They just need to shut up and get over it and most of all don't question Obama the Chosen and his infinite wisdom.


I'll bite. If you were president, what exactly would be your reasoning for not backing the Arab Spring? Because propping up undemocratic regimes has worked out so well for the US in the past?
 
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