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(Joystiq)   For those of you who haven't heard about this Star Citizen thing, today is a good morning to sit down, review your future ship, and throw some money at the screen   (joystiq.com) divider line 67
    More: PSA, Star Citizen, angel investors, Joystiq, Wing Commander, space fighter, loading  
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5853 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Jun 2013 at 11:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-30 11:06:03 AM  
Already got my Star Citizen card.

i1212.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-30 11:13:29 AM  

RexTalionis: Already got my Star Citizen card.

[i1212.photobucket.com image 600x393]


I really wanted one :( but I had to wait to pledge.
 
2013-06-30 11:14:25 AM  
I went with the green one because I wanted to have a "green card."  That and I didn't want to dish out more than $60.
 
2013-06-30 11:26:28 AM  

ramblinwreck: I went with the green one because I wanted to have a "green card."  That and I didn't want to dish out more than $60.


Same here.  The perks in the upper tiers were neat, but not realistically worth the cost.
 
2013-06-30 11:27:42 AM  
I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.
 
2013-06-30 11:39:21 AM  

deadsanta: I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.


I was starting to notice that as well.
 
2013-06-30 11:42:01 AM  
s.uvlist.net
 
2013-06-30 11:42:42 AM  

deadsanta: I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.


Maybe he needs an experienced publisher, someone like EA or Activision.  I'm sure that would help the process alot and give a lot of fence sitters some comfort in knowing such stalwart hands held the coin purse.

/I could barely type that
 
2013-06-30 11:59:41 AM  
Can't wait to see a release version of Star Citizen.  I'm getting the itch to play Privateer again.
 
2013-06-30 12:06:00 PM  

State_College_Arsonist: Can't wait to see a release version of Star Citizen.  I'm getting the itch to play Privateer again.


I reinstalled Freelancer.
 
2013-06-30 12:06:30 PM  
Already paid in and waiting.
 
2013-06-30 12:21:08 PM  

BumpInTheNight: deadsanta: I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.

Maybe he needs an experienced publisher, someone like EA or Activision.  I'm sure that would help the process alot and give a lot of fence sitters some comfort in knowing such stalwart hands held the coin purse.

/I could barely type that


LoL ok point there, but origin was a great company that released completed games, I think he just needs more of a sounding board of experienced collaborators than just his own ego. Like a core group of 4-6 folks who share a vision like, maybe, the original ELectronic Arts of the 1980's.
 
2013-06-30 12:21:26 PM  
For me: No game, no money.

You are purchasing on faith. Remember 1998?

art.penny-arcade.com
 
2013-06-30 12:39:46 PM  
Anyone else considering getting a Starfarer?

I already have a Connie and a 315p.
 
2013-06-30 12:47:25 PM  
Cupping your ear over the neighbor's wall works just fine.

/Wut?
 
2013-06-30 01:02:46 PM  

Skunkwolf: For me: No game, no money.

You are purchasing on faith. Remember 1998?

[art.penny-arcade.com image 800x321]



Except we have seen a working demo. John didn't have shiatl
 
2013-06-30 01:27:56 PM  
I'm leery about this game.  For as cool as it looks, it also looks like the piloting could be too realistic and complicated.

Star Conflict is f2p on steam now, but I found the handling too clunky and too few features.(match play like CoD, to include domination matches).

/want another space mmo like Black Prophecy, even though they butchered space flight it was fun
 
2013-06-30 01:34:31 PM  
So is this like EVE with more of a first person combat focus?  That could be pretty cool.
 
2013-06-30 01:38:44 PM  

ramblinwreck: I went with the green one because I wanted to have a "green card."  That and I didn't want to dish out more than $60.


That's me as well
 
2013-06-30 01:45:11 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: So is this like EVE with more of a first person combat focus?  That could be pretty cool.


I think the only thing that is similar between this game and EVE is that they both take place primarily in space.

It will be very cool though.
 
2013-06-30 02:00:01 PM  

JohnnyC: TuteTibiImperes: So is this like EVE with more of a first person combat focus?  That could be pretty cool.

I think the only thing that is similar between this game and EVE is that they both take place primarily in space.

It will be very cool though.


Eve would have had me if you would have actually controlled the ship in a pilot-like fashion.   I'd have played despite the horrible implant loss(or alternatively the horrible clone system that would slow learning) and destruction of valuable ships and modules and the tacky seniority based learning system which guaranteed you'd never catch up to people who started first.

Well, control and not having missiles and guns not fire through the scenery, and the hotlist of every structure and player in the zone.... things like that.
 
2013-06-30 02:08:04 PM  

ThatBillmanGuy: deadsanta: I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.

I was starting to notice that as well.


When they released the new stuff for the 300i ship I thought it was cool, but then I saw that it was starting at $65 for the basic model to  add the ship to an existing pledge.  The heck?  You want the price of a full game to add a ship that is not timed or exclusive (can be bought for in-game credits), that's crazy.

It's like that Steam game, Planetary Annihilation, where $90 gets you Early Access to the alpha/beta.  Normally you get a discount for an unfinished product.
 
2013-06-30 02:22:58 PM  

deadsanta: I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.


Actually, on the initial Star Citizen website, he made two numbers available. The first one was $2 million, which is what the team felt they needed to realistically prove demand for this type of game, and secure additional investment from backers they'd already spoken with.

The actual cost to make the game he wanted to make was upwards of $10 million. I think his new number of $22 million came about because the fan response exceeded his expectations, and has him thinking about all the things he could add that he didn't think he'd have the money to implement.

I'm not entirely sure what this alpha/minecraft model thing is about. I suspect he's shooting for the moon, and wants to make sure he finishes what he's started.

/already in for a 300i
//will probably need to upgrade my gaming rig when this comes out
 
2013-06-30 02:41:32 PM  

Cytokine Storm: ThatBillmanGuy: deadsanta: I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.

I was starting to notice that as well.

When they released the new stuff for the 300i ship I thought it was cool, but then I saw that it was starting at $65 for the basic model to  add the ship to an existing pledge.  The heck?   You want the price of a full game to add a ship that is not timed or exclusive (can be bought for in-game credits), that's crazy.

It's like that Steam game, Planetary Annihilation, where $90 gets you Early Access to the alpha/beta.  Normally you get a discount for an unfinished product.


It's called fundraising. Like you say, the ship can be bought for in-game credits.

So there's no real advantage to buying now with real money, unless you want to offer support to the project. (or if lifetime insurance is still a thing... it may not be, I haven't been keeping up that closely with it)

During the original funding run, you could add any ship to your pledge for a set fee, some of which were over $100. Did I go for it? No, I wasn't interested. But at the same time, I'm sure as hell not going to tell them they can't offer that up in exchange for funding capital.
 
2013-06-30 02:56:25 PM  
*sigh* when does the closed alpha test for this thing start? I pledged months ago to the most basic level that'd let me get into that, and I've heard nary a peep about the actual release schedule, just more marketing stuff about ships.

I'm praying this doesn't turn into another MechWarrior Online-type situation where they have a brilliant design in beta and then progressively ruin the shiat out of it before release day.
 
2013-06-30 03:11:49 PM  

State_College_Arsonist: Can't wait to see a release version of Star Citizen.  I'm getting the itch to play Privateer again.


I've been thinking of getting that from GOG.

How does it stack up against Elite?  (Which I played on an Atari ST and loved it)
 
2013-06-30 03:16:47 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: *sigh* when does the closed alpha test for this thing start? I pledged months ago to the most basic level that'd let me get into that, and I've heard nary a peep about the actual release schedule, just more marketing stuff about ships.

I'm praying this doesn't turn into another MechWarrior Online-type situation where they have a brilliant design in beta and then progressively ruin the shiat out of it before release day.


Interactive hangar coming in August, actual flight/combat testing scheduled for December.
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/star-citizen-adding-modules-up-to- 20 14-beta-launch-hangar-modu/
 
2013-06-30 03:22:15 PM  
*rtfa*

*shutupandtakemymoney.jpg*
 
2013-06-30 03:25:10 PM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: *sigh* when does the closed alpha test for this thing start? I pledged months ago to the most basic level that'd let me get into that, and I've heard nary a peep about the actual release schedule, just more marketing stuff about ships.

I'm praying this doesn't turn into another MechWarrior Online-type situation where they have a brilliant design in beta and then progressively ruin the shiat out of it before release day.


Then you haven't been watching the website.
Dogfighting alpha is this winter, The Squadron 42 single player missions are due next summer, and the fullscale persistent galaxy is due winter 2014 or early 2015.


deadsanta: I'm leery of getting on board, every time I read an interview with the designer his "vision" of what the game requires jumps by like $5 million. Now he needs 12 million just to get a working alpha game with a minecraft release, with more $$$ to release two additional versions?

That seems like money isn't being well spent, like he needs a CFO the way GRRMartin needs an editor.


The additional versions were always coming, just not at release due to funding/investors. Originally there was a group of investors that were willing to fund the game, as long as Chris Roberts (of wing commander, privateer, and freelancer fame) was able to show that there was a demand still for this kind of space sim. That's why the original goal was 2mil. The investors would provide the rest, and the game would be made with a traditional publishing model. Since they broke 2 mil in like the first week, it REALLY proved the demand, so Roberts said "well, if we can raise more, we won't need to go to a publisher" (ie, no rushed out the door product to meet deadlines). so they set stretch goals.... and smashed them all. He's able to put more features into the game at release by hiring more designers, programmers, etc.

So now, there are NO investors, the entire game is going to be community funded, as well as self published. So, nobody in a suit is going to dictate any terms on how or when the game is being made.

As far as Roberts goes, the guy is a gaming Legend. He worked on all the wing commander games, strike commander, starlancer, freelancer, privateer. And he used to work for Origin Systems which published the Wing Commander as well as the Ulitma series. Once Origin got bought out, he left and created Digital Anvil and made some great games there. He eventually sold Digital Anvil to Microsoft, who promptly took a shiat on it.
Roberts then went to make movies for awhile (the punisher, lord of war, outlander), but said he'd come back to gaming when the tech was far enough along that he could make a game he really wanted to play.
So now we're at that level. And he's back.
This is a guy who really knows the gaming business, inside and out. He's been a dev as well as a publisher. So don't you worry about his ability to deliver.

If you don't want to buy any ships, you're not required to. It's just for those people that want to contribute to the game, and start of with a ship they don't have to work their way up to. Saves time that way, and on day 1, not everyone will be in the n00b ship.

/got my bounty hunter card, comes with the 300i
//even won an Anvil Gladiator Bomber from one of the contests.
 
2013-06-30 03:35:05 PM  
I still have zero interest in this game. I've just never been into first person action games. Give me a nice slow strategy game any day.
 
2013-06-30 03:41:57 PM  
Personally I think SC looks pretty unimpressive compared to how promising X:Rebirth is.
 
2013-06-30 03:43:12 PM  
As an original backer, the only reason buying ships using real money is tempting is for the lifetime hull insurance.  Not having to buy a whole new ship (just having to re-upgrade it) if some wanker blows me up is awful tempting.  Already got it for the Aurora just for pledging, but... some of those other ships sound mighty awesome.
 
2013-06-30 05:23:58 PM  
I kicked in at one of the higher levels.   The extra ship is nice,  but honestly this was more of a case of supporting the product and the designer.  I grew up on the WIng Commander series, still my favorite games of all times.    The value to me is helping see this product to market in the first place (And in my hands, muahahha!)
 
2013-06-30 05:27:49 PM  
I never, ever pre-pay for any game, movie, or musical album. I sit back and wait for people to test it out, find out if it sucks or not, and then scream about it on the Internet. I let the suckers take the hit for me.

Pre-ordering individual games, movies, or albums is just plain stupid. Kickstarter isn't a pre-order, though, so I hope the investment turns out to be worth it for those who backed it. If it's not, I don't want to hear them whining online like the Ouya backers who didn't get their backer consoles fast enough. You weren't buying a console; You were backing a project and getting a complimentary console for your support.

Incidentally, I'm glad I didn't financially back Ouya. I had one (retail) for a couple days, and ended up returning it because it's just not  there  yet.  I like Android, but it's one hell of a buggy system to base a game console on, and while I had hopes that Ouya would be different, it turned out to be yet another Android PC with a custom launcher and all that Android fickleness in the background. It would drop my WiFi, ignore my Ethernet connection, freak out when I connected external devices, and otherwise be a real pain in the ass. The games that launched with it are okay, but nothing to write home about. It was good at emulation, but then so is the Wii and a dozen other TV devices. The build of XBMC that currently exists for Android has all the Android weaknesses, and choked a bit on 1080p video (and I couldn't get a USB remote to work with it, either; I don't want to control XBMC with a gamepad).

So just be careful, Kickstarter backers. Realize you're not pre-ordering a game; You're giving money to someone to enable them to attempt to make a game. Whether or not the game is good, or even ever released, is another story.

I will sit back and wait. When I hear glowing reviews of Star Citizen, then I'll wait a little longer for it to be on a Steam sale. I don't pay $60 for games unless they're amazing.
 
2013-06-30 05:29:36 PM  
...been in for awhile now, costing me my kickstarter virginity.
 
2013-06-30 05:37:28 PM  
I will be buying it, but holding off for now, too many other things to spend money on.
 
2013-06-30 05:40:04 PM  

ZeroCorpse: So just be careful, Kickstarter backers. Realize you're not pre-ordering a game; You're giving money to someone to enable them to attempt to make a game. Whether or not the game is good, or even ever released, is another story.

I will sit back and wait. When I hear glowing reviews of Star Citizen, then I'll wait a little longer for it to be on a Steam sale. I don't pay $60 for games unless they're amazing.


To add to that, the game release is slated, as someone mentioned, about a year and a half out yet.
Old news is one thing, but this....this is a bit ridiculous even for fark.
 
2013-06-30 06:09:07 PM  

Vertdang: Then you haven't been watching the website.
Dogfighting alpha is this winter, The Squadron 42 single player missions are due next summer, and the fullscale persistent galaxy is due winter 2014 or early 2015..


I'll admit, I haven't. I found their site to be really painful to navigate and I haven't felt like delving into the forums.

I've been relying on e-mail newsletters and those, sadly haven't been as informative as I'd hoped. Maybe I missed the one with the dates.
 
2013-06-30 06:40:19 PM  

Vertdang: This is a guy who really knows the gaming business, inside and out.


No, this is a guy who knew the gaming business inside and out up until about 2003, and has missed most of the changes that have happened over the past decade.

Higher polygon counts? Who cares?
 
2013-06-30 08:10:48 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Vertdang: This is a guy who really knows the gaming business, inside and out.

No, this is a guy who knew the gaming business inside and out up until about 2003, and has missed most of the changes that have happened over the past decade.

Higher polygon counts? Who cares?


To be fair, there haven't been many great advances since 2003, and those that have been made have been largely predictable.

Hardware has stagnated as Sony and Microsoft have moved to flog their dead horses for as long as possible and the greatest revolution in gameplay in the last 10 years was probably portal. Which successfully delayed half life three by another 7 years at least.
 
2013-06-30 08:25:57 PM  

Dave The Slushy: poot_rootbeer: Vertdang: This is a guy who really knows the gaming business, inside and out.

No, this is a guy who knew the gaming business inside and out up until about 2003, and has missed most of the changes that have happened over the past decade.

Higher polygon counts? Who cares?

To be fair, there haven't been many great advances since 2003, and those that have been made have been largely predictable.

Hardware has stagnated as Sony and Microsoft have moved to flog their dead horses for as long as possible and the greatest revolution in gameplay in the last 10 years was probably portal. Which successfully delayed half life three by another 7 years at least.


Mostly this, graphics have gotten better, but that's about it.

Portal was an innovation of sorts in game design, but nothing revolutionary that changed gaming.

I think the next breakthroughs will be...and the term is already as overused and rendered almost as meaningless as "cloud" so pardon me..but it'll be the persistant world.

Trees grow and get cut down, land can change, area's can flood, etc.  Players can build and destroy.  Not just build as in spawn a prefab building/section, but can create structures.

Minecraft touched on it, and StarForge looks to be going in a very similar direction. Second Life was an overcomplicated pre-cursor

But what I'm thinking of is something more akin to MadMax or Fallout on an MMO scale.  You erect basic structures and tack on stuff that you scavenge.  Similar to the way people created objects in Halo's Forge feature by repurposing items from the menus.

You find corrugated metal and fence posts, metal plates and all sorts of other scraps and parts and build with them in the style of the walls around New Vegas.

But it's an MMO, so these things can be destroyed by adequate use of force.  Vehicles that have armor plating situated on them as you design, not simply a new substitute or attached model.

It will fail miserably at first of course, because few gamers will work together long enough to create defensible settlements, but IMO, that's where we're headed with games of such a nature. That's some of the only real innovation that's left to the sandbox game genre.
 
2013-06-30 08:28:48 PM  
So basically, it's a more expensive Eve Online?
 
2013-06-30 08:29:34 PM  

omeganuepsilon: I think the next breakthroughs will be...and the term is already as overused and rendered almost as meaningless as "cloud" so pardon me..but it'll be the persistant world.


upload.wikimedia.org

Been done.
 
2013-06-30 08:36:16 PM  

RexTalionis: omeganuepsilon: I think the next breakthroughs will be...and the term is already as overused and rendered almost as meaningless as "cloud" so pardon me..but it'll be the persistant world.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 257x358]

Been done.


The last nintendo i played was 64, the last one I owned was NES.

So I have no idea what that is.  But I meant more towards the MMO persistant world(which they all advertise as persistent, just because the server is always there) being a changing and malleable landscape.
 
2013-06-30 10:20:34 PM  

RatMaster999: State_College_Arsonist: Can't wait to see a release version of Star Citizen.  I'm getting the itch to play Privateer again.

I've been thinking of getting that from GOG.

How does it stack up against Elite?  (Which I played on an Atari ST and loved it)


I never played Elite, only read about it.  I do recommend Privateer to anyone interested in an open-universe space sim.  I spent hours and hours flying around the starting system, just dog fighting Retros and pirates.  Lots of fun.
 
2013-06-30 11:14:54 PM  
Let me know when World of Battleships is live.
 
2013-06-30 11:15:38 PM  

omeganuepsilon: I think the next breakthroughs will be...and the term is already as overused and rendered almost as meaningless as "cloud" so pardon me..but it'll be the persistant world.


Might be my misunderstanding of the term, but what you want is well beyond a persistent world game.
A present day persistent world is just a server that stays up all the time hosting the same game.  The next step for that is using "cloud" (oooOOOooo) technology to make it so you aren't logging into a server or an instance so much as logging into "the game". You and your friends sharing the same scenery with everyone in a seamless fashion.
An MMO today (which is usually persistent but static) hosts a gameworld that doesn't actually change that much. Even there you've still got things like the economy and quests to balance. Trying to scale that up to where the scenery itself is changeable and destructible... and it do it smoothly and without risk of griefers taking over the place... that's a tall order.

/What Roberts is proposing is sort of a go between.  Its persistent and static, but with episodic changes. Which is as good as you can expect these days.
/That said: a minecraft MMO would be awesome until it devolved into a landscape of lava covered spawnpoints and golden penis statues.
 
2013-06-30 11:21:21 PM  
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowbane
 
2013-06-30 11:32:53 PM  

way south: An MMO today (which is usually persistent but static) hosts a gameworld that doesn't actually change that much. Even there you've still got things like the economy and quests to balance. Trying to scale that up to where the scenery itself is changeable and destructible... and it do it smoothly and without risk of griefers taking over the place... that's a tall order.


Griefers seem to be the real fly in the MMO design ointment. Anything interesting you allow players to do in the gameworld seems to become just another avenue for immature farkwads to ruin other people's day. On the other hand, keeping the lid on griefers, hackers, trolls, etc. requires either pervasive moderation or bland, consumption-focused game elements.

And I don't know how you solve that problem. What are you going to do, make the game invitation-only? While that would probably work for keeping the riffraff out, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot, financially-speaking. And that sort of speaks to the heart of many of today's problems with gaming: the interests of a good game and the interests of running a business seem to be fundamentally at odds with one another.
 
2013-06-30 11:55:53 PM  

way south: That said: a minecraft MMO would be awesome until it devolved into a landscape of lava covered spawnpoints and golden penis statues.


That would be cool.

I've always thought that player griefing could be minimized by AI-controlled agents that act defensively and impede destructive players to some extent. Each faction would have a certain number of agents that would repair walls or fortifications (or build new ones according to the battle lines). If enemy players tried to do things like dig huge trenches filled with lava just outside the enemy base to trap them in, the players would soon find themselves overwhelmed by AI forces. Kinda like guards in WoW. But these agents would also repair the damage, fill in the trenches, and return it to normal.

So players could grief if they wanted to, but it would be hard and take a concerted effort, and ultimately the damage would be automatically reversed.

/working on a minecraft-like engine.
 
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