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(Daily Mail)   Angry villagers hold baby elephant hostage until his family comes up with ransom   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 20
    More: Asinine, Asian elephant, elephants, Duchess of Cornwall, Aceh, held hostage, football pitch, Sumatra, Sumatran  
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6376 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jun 2013 at 11:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-06-30 10:12:48 AM
3 votes:
Sadly for him, it is too late. He died alone, still chained to that tree, though Elephant Family worked tirelessly for a week to negotiate his release.
Already we've discovered that another calf, this one just a month old, has been captured and held to ransom by local farmers. Everyone is working around the clock to make sure that this little calf survives. I am doubtful.


I changed my mind. Execute them all. We can always make more humans.
2013-06-30 01:28:41 PM
2 votes:
i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
2013-06-30 01:18:11 PM
2 votes:

Target Builder: offmymeds:

And animal cruelty will solve their problems how?

One less elephant competing with them for their an their children's food.

RTFA. The people to be angry at aren't a bunch of dirt poor villagers with little control over major events that are inflicted upon them - its people in wealthy countries who use products with Palm Oil in it and the commercial palm oil producers who exploit the poor in their countries as much as they exploit the natural resources.

Anyone suggesting death to these villagers should go through the food and cosmetics in their house. If you find any products with palm oil in it (see TFA for examples) then you're a much bigger part of the problem than the poor bastards in the article who are just trying to avoid starving to death.


Of course, as we all know two wrongs make a right. Particularly when one of those wrongs is the willfully cruel mistreatment of a young living thing with a relatively advanced intellectual capacity.
2013-06-30 01:12:19 PM
2 votes:
KimNorth:

So don't but soap with veg oil as this is how it is labeled, does not have to say palm oil? Do tell what kind of soap does one buy? We all can't pay $12 for 2 oz of special soap or shop online.....I want to do the right thing.

I agree - its a shiat situation if you want to avoid it as its in a ton of stuff and apparently does not need to be specifically labeled yet.

Maybe the folks advocating death to impoverished third world villagers should write to their elected representatives first, and maybe take it up with the companies that produce and sell products using palm oil.
2013-06-30 12:08:12 PM
2 votes:

RexTalionis: Target Builder: These probably aren't bad people, they are just in a very bad situation.

Perhaps not, but they are, ultimately, very fungible and expendable people.


True. They are disposable people who are regularly exploited to ensure people in developed countries get the products they want at the prices they are willing to pay.
2013-06-30 11:32:54 AM
2 votes:

RexTalionis: The solution is simple. Send in the army, take every child between the ages of 1 and 14. Put all of them in foster families on the other side of Indonesia and keep them there until the village gives up.


Try looking at it from the point of view of a person living in a village in abject poverty and a bad harvest away from starvation as opposed to the point of view of someone in a developed country with all the security that brings.

From their perspective if a herd of elephants eat their crops then their children go hungry and people starve. Nobody on earth is going to put the life of an elephant above the survival prospects of themselves and their children.

These probably aren't bad people, they are just in a very bad situation.
2013-06-30 11:06:59 PM
1 votes:

gadian: Everyone here knows damn well that if every person in that village starved to death, it wouldn't matter in the slightest.  So unimportant is every individual in that place that every bit of land is more useful to elephant and other animal habitat because those animals are much more necessary and can survive with much less intervention.  Nothing good or noteworthy will ever come from these people, so why not relocate them or let them starve and let them give up the land they're wasting?

/tired of being told to care.


Because "they"re not wasting it. Did you even glance at the article? If "they" were all gone, the elephants wouldn't get the habitat.

But, right now, the Aceh government is close to adopting a plan that would see hundreds of thousands of hectares of this forest opened up for the cultivation of palm oil.


So you really should care. The villagers aren't profiting by "their" wasting of the forest. The Aceh government is. And they'd be just as glad if both the villagers AND the elephants were all gone, because then they could devote 100% of the forest to palm oil and pocket the whole profit. Blaming the villagers is exactly what the palm-kernal industry and the Aceh government want you to do--because it means you're not paying attention to them; but it's not the villagers or the elephants who are razing the forest and growing the plantations. Or making the money. They're just the ones who are dying.
2013-06-30 07:32:00 PM
1 votes:

pedrop357: tiamet4: Or maybe they're doing it because they are smart enough to know that this elephant will (and did) get more attention than their children starving?

If their children are starving, why don't the eat the elephant?


Their children are not "starving." The problem goes like this. Try to keep up and pay attention.

1. Farming in the area has changed from subsistence-level small-field farming to large-scale palm-oil plantations. This has altered the surrounding jungle and made the environment uninhabitable for the wild elephant herds.

2. The elephants are starving and attack the plantations and the farmers' fields looking for food; they also attack the villages in possible "retaliation" for mistreatment (elephants are able to understand people = bad things)

3. The farmers can't make a living from their own farm plots; they have no choice but to sell out to the palm-oil conglomerates and/or the government; thus, when the elephants rampage through the plantations and the farm plots, they lose both their food and their only source of income.

4. Elephants are protected under the CITES treaty and can't be shot or killed for food or sale. Only the government can make that determination.

Therefore, the farmers are screwed. The elephants have more rights than they do--and the elephants have no rights at all. In former times, the farmers would catch baby elephants, tame them, and use them as beasts of burden, the wild elephants would live in the forests, and everything would be okay. Now, the forests are gone--cut down for palm kernal plantations--the farmers cannot survive on their own farms and so have to work for the plantations, which means they have to do what the government tells them; and yet the elephants cannot survive in what forest is left, so they trample through the plantations and villages. The farmers have no right to kill the elephants--so the only thing they can do is take elephants hostage and demand government payoffs.

It's the end result of short-sighted corporate greed and bad government management, playing out on the backs of helpless animals (or maybe not so helpless) and people with no other recourse. The West wants its cheap palm oil--this is where it comes from. The West also wants its elephants protected--this is where they live, and they need a lot of room. Pick one, because there isn't room for both. But the farmers live there too, and either they need to work the plantations or they need to be able to go back to their farms.
2013-06-30 05:00:19 PM
1 votes:

offmymeds: KimNorth: So don't but soap with veg oil as this is how it is labeled, does not have to say palm oil? Do tell what kind of soap does one buy? We all can't pay $12 for 2 oz of special soap or shop online.....I want to do the right thing.

Try this: Palm Oil Free Soap


$6 per 2.5 ounce bar, only available online...not what was sought. Palm-free soaps aren't carried by typical general goods stores in the US, and specialty stores charge much more for them than mass market soap. Walmart charges $0.50-$1.50 per 3-4 ounce bar for nearly all their soaps.
2013-06-30 04:38:51 PM
1 votes:
A muslim nation. No surprise there.
2013-06-30 03:42:31 PM
1 votes:

offmymeds: Target Builder: Clemkadidlefark: That was one of the most horrible set of pics I have ever seen. Death to all those villagers.

I guess you skimmed over the words in TFA.

Don't tell him about circuses and zoos.


i759.photobucket.com
2013-06-30 01:27:54 PM
1 votes:
mongbiohazard:

Of course, as we all know two wrongs make a right. Particularly when one of those wrongs is the willfully cruel mistreatment of a young living thing with a relatively advanced intellectual capacity.

Oh and don't get me wrong, I know what you were saying Target Builder... I'm just saying if anyone ever finds themselves in the position that they have decided the way to solve their problem is to start torturing living things to death perhaps they should consider they might not be in the right.... and might want to consider some farking birth control or, I dunno, LIVING SOMEWHERE ELSE.


Where these people live was just fine until other people decided to make a lot of money by wiping out elephant habitat and forcing elephants and impoverished humans to share a smaller and smaller space.
2013-06-30 01:26:26 PM
1 votes:
There are plenty of palm-oil free soaps available on Etsy or Local Harvest websites. Most are quite affordable and better for your skin and environment. If you have psoriasis or eczema, I highly recommend coconut oil products. I use pure coconut oil (solid at room temp) for all of my "lotion" needs, it soaks in and leaves your skin feeling healthy and moisturized without petro chemicals involved. And in the case of relatives with psoriasis and eczema, it's really done a turn around on their conditions.

The article made me sad, both for the elephant and the people who don't know any better. Palm oil sadly is in tons of things, the little chocolate covered donuts I had for breakfast, palm oil is in the chocolate coating. Hmph.

I will be reading more labels after seeing the late little Raja's plight though and trying to avoid palm oil wherever possible.
2013-06-30 01:23:44 PM
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: mongbiohazard: Target Builder: offmymeds:

And animal cruelty will solve their problems how?

One less elephant competing with them for their an their children's food.

RTFA. The people to be angry at aren't a bunch of dirt poor villagers with little control over major events that are inflicted upon them - its people in wealthy countries who use products with Palm Oil in it and the commercial palm oil producers who exploit the poor in their countries as much as they exploit the natural resources.

Anyone suggesting death to these villagers should go through the food and cosmetics in their house. If you find any products with palm oil in it (see TFA for examples) then you're a much bigger part of the problem than the poor bastards in the article who are just trying to avoid starving to death.

Of course, as we all know two wrongs make a right. Particularly when one of those wrongs is the willfully cruel mistreatment of a young living thing with a relatively advanced intellectual capacity.

Oh and don't get me wrong, I know what you were saying Target Builder... I'm just saying if anyone ever finds themselves in the position that they have decided the way to solve their problem is to start torturing living things to death perhaps they should consider they might not be in the right.... and might want to consider some farking birth control or, I dunno, LIVING SOMEWHERE ELSE.


encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
2013-06-30 01:12:06 PM
1 votes:

KimNorth: Target Builder: offmymeds:

And animal cruelty will solve their problems how?

One less elephant competing with them for their an their children's food.

RTFA. The people to be angry at aren't a bunch of dirt poor villagers with little control over major events that are inflicted upon them - its people in wealthy countries who use products with Palm Oil in it and the commercial palm oil producers who exploit the poor in their countries as much as they exploit the natural resources.

Anyone suggesting death to these villagers should go through the food and cosmetics in their house. If you find any products with palm oil in it (see TFA for examples) then you're a much bigger part of the problem than the poor bastards in the article who are just trying to avoid starving to death.

So don't but soap with veg oil as this is how it is labeled, does not have to say palm oil? Do tell what kind of soap does one buy? We all can't pay $12 for 2 oz of special soap or shop online.....I want to do the right thing.


Try this: Palm Oil Free Soap
2013-06-30 12:06:01 PM
1 votes:
offmymeds:

And animal cruelty will solve their problems how?

One less elephant competing with them for their an their children's food.

RTFA. The people to be angry at aren't a bunch of dirt poor villagers with little control over major events that are inflicted upon them - its people in wealthy countries who use products with Palm Oil in it and the commercial palm oil producers who exploit the poor in their countries as much as they exploit the natural resources.

Anyone suggesting death to these villagers should go through the food and cosmetics in their house. If you find any products with palm oil in it (see TFA for examples) then you're a much bigger part of the problem than the poor bastards in the article who are just trying to avoid starving to death.
2013-06-30 11:36:29 AM
1 votes:
1.Relocate elephants to healthier environment
2. Chain villagers to trees
3. Nuke village

/Problem solved
//Seriously, please do this
2013-06-30 11:19:40 AM
1 votes:
christian.vonschack.com

I've learned that stealing the wrong person's elephant can be a very, very poor idea.
2013-06-30 11:19:00 AM
1 votes:
Human pond scum.
2013-06-30 10:05:31 AM
1 votes:
The solution is simple. Send in the army, take every child between the ages of 1 and 14. Put all of them in foster families on the other side of Indonesia and keep them there until the village gives up.
 
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