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(NPR)   Why do girls need to play with special purple and pink Legos instead of the regular Lego sets? Are parents of girls that scared to buy regular sets?   (npr.org) divider line 254
    More: Interesting, legos, Sky Girls, Monobloc engine, purple, BMO Capitol Markets, riot grrrl, Joy Pochatila, Lego Friends  
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5991 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jun 2013 at 1:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-30 12:50:07 PM
That reminds me...
Looking for a book for my niece, I saw a DK Lego sticker book recently full of 'CITY' images,
and out of the hundred occupations & people shown, only 3 were female.

/thought I should write the company about that - now feel I should
//next they'll prob develop a pink book of SUBURB people full of only girls *sigh*
 
2013-06-30 12:53:47 PM
What I really wish was around when I was an anklebiter:
a.tgcdn.net

/but only 'cause there's no Pelennor Fields set
 
2013-06-30 12:54:03 PM

Ilmarinen: /it is a 2 way street, as proved by the existence of transsexuals, and the matter is far from sorted out, or understood at all


Ummmm..... transexuals prove that gender roles are societal, otherwise boys would always be boys and girls would always be girls. There's no "Girls like pink gene" or "Boy prefer guns genotype". Unfortunately, our society is so locked into gender roles that when someone tries to breech the divide they are at best labeled a nancy-boy or a tom-girl and at worst are classified by psychologists as transexuals or transgendered people  and given drugs, hormones and surgery to make sure their bodies conform to society' expectations for their behavior.
 
2013-06-30 12:56:07 PM

brigid_fitch: Growing up, there were "girl" Legos.  They were called LEGOS.

/So tired of the "shrink it and pink it" mentality.
//I used to play with my brother's GI Joe dolls because they were way cooler than my Barbies.  He had sled dogs.  I had inflatable furniture.


They still have those. They now have additional sets that have flowers and houses and pets and different people.

Turns out, lots of girls who aren't interested in the regular sets like the new ones.

Why is it so terrible that a company spent years and millions of dollars researching what actual girls actually want and then have it to them instead of just assuming that a few middle aged men know what girls want to play with?
 
2013-06-30 12:58:23 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"


Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.
 
2013-06-30 01:08:14 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.


[citation needed]
 
2013-06-30 01:15:07 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.


I think we found one of those mediocre childless grad students someone else was talking about.
 
2013-06-30 01:18:51 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Ilmarinen: /it is a 2 way street, as proved by the existence of transsexuals, and the matter is far from sorted out, or understood at all

Ummmm..... transexuals prove that gender roles are societal, otherwise boys would always be boys and girls would always be girls. There's no "Girls like pink gene" or "Boy prefer guns genotype". Unfortunately, our society is so locked into gender roles that when someone tries to breech the divide they are at best labeled a nancy-boy or a tom-girl and at worst are classified by psychologists as transexuals or transgendered people  and given drugs, hormones and surgery to make sure their bodies conform to society' expectations for their behavior.


Alternately, most transexuals prove our tolerance for narcissism and confusion.
 
2013-06-30 01:42:45 PM
The LEGO is sexist group ought to team up with the LEGO is racist group (you know because the Star Wars set portrays muslims as terrorists, slavetraders and something about the mosque which is rather vague.     Actually. Shouldn't they be happy that there's a LEGO mosque set? Anyways...)
 
2013-06-30 02:01:32 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.


So children should be raised by genderless robots?
 
2013-06-30 02:02:37 PM

rustypouch: Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

So children should be raised by genderless robots?


vive la différence
 
2013-06-30 02:23:27 PM

omeganuepsilon: Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

[citation needed]


Siann, G. (1994). Gender, sex and sexuality: Contemporary psychological perspectives. London: Taylor & Francis.

Once you watch over 120 babies between the ages of 6 to 18 months in a lab for a year you get a much better understanding of what "normal" infant behavior is than parents who only have their own child to observe. For one thing.... babies soak up everything they observe and make their own decisions about what's appropriate behavior. Thing is, once they make a decision about what's appropriate they are stubborn little shiats and lock into that behavior. This appears to be why early abuse and exposure to violence is so damaging to a child, once they classify it as "appropriate" behavior its almost impossible to get them to change.
 
2013-06-30 02:28:11 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Once you watch over 120 babies between the ages of 6 to 18 months in a lab for a year you get a much better understanding of what "normal" infant behavior is than parents who only have their own child to observe.


Raising babies in a lab is "normal"?
 
2013-06-30 02:32:26 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Gender roles are bullshiat. Which is why if you took a boy and a girl and raised them identically, they'd end up indistinguishable as adults. Everyone, regardless of genetic makeup, is exactly the same.


Which is why you obviously don't have anyone who is transgendered.
 
2013-06-30 02:34:57 PM

ELKAY: whenever I hear that gender roles are completely social I am reminded of the case of Bruce Reimer, who was born a boy and after a botched circumcision was raised as a little girl, his parents were told that since gender roles are societal the infant would have no trouble adusting.

Wrong,

This kids life was miserable. He always felt off and eventually had a sex change to become male again.

This story is just one of literally piles and piles of evidence showing that gender roles are to some extent inherent. I know that's inconvenient but it's true.


Yeah there is definitely a nature aspect to gender roles its not all human culture. If you put a bunch of GI joes and Barbies in with a group of Gorillas or Chimps the males play with GI joes and the females play with Barbies even though they are not humans or exposed to human culture.
 
2013-06-30 02:40:42 PM

Oldiron_79: ELKAY: whenever I hear that gender roles are completely social I am reminded of the case of Bruce Reimer, who was born a boy and after a botched circumcision was raised as a little girl, his parents were told that since gender roles are societal the infant would have no trouble adusting.

Wrong,

This kids life was miserable. He always felt off and eventually had a sex change to become male again.

This story is just one of literally piles and piles of evidence showing that gender roles are to some extent inherent. I know that's inconvenient but it's true.

Yeah there is definitely a nature aspect to gender roles its not all human culture. If you put a bunch of GI joes and Barbies in with a group of Gorillas or Chimps the males play with GI joes and the females play with Barbies even though they are not humans or exposed to human culture.


Is that because Lord Xenu engineered all apes to conform to human gender toy stereotypes or because the thetans attached to the apes prefer different toys based on their previous corporeal  gender?
 
2013-06-30 03:00:04 PM
men and women have different proportions of the color and movement detecting cells behind the retina called P and T cells. this accounts for many different preferences in play. colors are literally more stimulating to a girl than to a boy. movement is literally more stimulating to a boy. innate genetic differences are the reason.
source: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Gender-Matters-Teachers-Differences/dp/0767 9 16255

i1172.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-30 03:41:23 PM

WhippingBoy: Arthur Jumbles: Once you watch over 120 babies between the ages of 6 to 18 months in a lab for a year you get a much better understanding of what "normal" infant behavior is than parents who only have their own child to observe.

Raising babies in a lab is "normal"?


Hey man, watching 120 babies in a lab totally disproves thousands of years of parental experience. It's science.
 
2013-06-30 04:12:15 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: WhippingBoy: Arthur Jumbles: Once you watch over 120 babies between the ages of 6 to 18 months in a lab for a year you get a much better understanding of what "normal" infant behavior is than parents who only have their own child to observe.

Raising babies in a lab is "normal"?

Hey man, watching 120 babies in a lab totally disproves thousands of years of parental experience. It's science.


It doesn't disprove it, it does point out where it is flawed, where it is incomplete, and then attempts to fill in those gaps.

And there are not thousands of years of parental experience. People have been having parental experiences for thousands of years, but they aren't cumulative.
 
2013-06-30 04:35:55 PM

Arthur Jumbles: omeganuepsilon: Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

[citation needed]

Siann, G. (1994). Gender, sex and sexuality: Contemporary psychological perspectives. London: Taylor & Francis.

Once you watch over 120 babies between the ages of 6 to 18 months in a lab for a year you get a much better understanding of what "normal" infant behavior is than parents who only have their own child to observe. For one thing.... babies soak up everything they observe and make their own decisions about what's appropriate behavior. Thing is, once they make a decision about what's appropriate they are stubborn little shiats and lock into that behavior. This appears to be why early abuse and exposure to violence is so damaging to a child, once they classify it as "appropriate" behavior its almost impossible to get them to change.


sorry dude, parents that have raised boys and girls or observe the children of other parents will all tell you that boys and girls are just different. and when you start getting into biology and medicine (real sciences unlike sociology) it will tell you that the brain structures and cell structures of boys and girls are markedly different and that these differences are present at birth, and many are derived directly from genetics. there are proteins in the nervous system that are directly coded by the Y chromosome.
 
2013-06-30 04:51:12 PM

GF named my left testicle thundercles: Arthur Jumbles: omeganuepsilon: Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

[citation needed]

Siann, G. (1994). Gender, sex and sexuality: Contemporary psychological perspectives. London: Taylor & Francis.

Once you watch over 120 babies between the ages of 6 to 18 months in a lab for a year you get a much better understanding of what "normal" infant behavior is than parents who only have their own child to observe. For one thing.... babies soak up everything they observe and make their own decisions about what's appropriate behavior. Thing is, once they make a decision about what's appropriate they are stubborn little shiats and lock into that behavior. This appears to be why early abuse and exposure to violence is so damaging to a child, once they classify it as "appropriate" behavior its almost impossible to get them to change.

sorry dude, parents that have raised boys and girls or observe the children of other parents will all tell you that boys and girls are just different. and when you start getting into biology and medicine (real sciences unlike sociology) it will tell you that the brain structures and cell structures of boys and girls are markedly different and that these differences are present at birth, and many are derived directly from genetics. there are proteins in the nervous system that are directly coded by the Y chromosome.


But that doesn't support my world-view so it must be wrong.
 
2013-06-30 04:53:47 PM

GF named my left testicle thundercles: sorry dude, parents that have raised boys and girls or observe the children of other parents will all tell you that boys and girls are just different. and when you start getting into biology and medicine (real sciences unlike sociology) it will tell you that the brain structures and cell structures of boys and girls are markedly different and that these differences are present at birth, and many are derived directly from genetics. there are proteins in the nervous system that are directly coded by the Y chromosome.


Yes, they will. I've heard plenty of parents in a discussion of gender norms and boys versus girls talk about how their kids behave. How their girl naturally likes pink so much, even before she could learn that it is a "girly" color. Which is interesting since the idea of pink for girls is a very recent concept. Quite simply parents will often underestimate how much an infant can observe and learn about their surroundings long before they can speak.

And people aren't generally arguing that boys and girls are literally 100% exactly the same. It's a bit more complicated. Which differences are "hard coded", so to speak, and which are learned? On top of that there are issues about how prevalent or absolute some of those difference are (for example, physically, the average height for men is taller than the average height for women. But there are plenty of women that are taller than men and men that are shorter than women).
 
2013-06-30 05:21:55 PM

MoonPirate: My daughter who is 11 doesn't like the girly ones. She decided on her own it was blatant marketing crap.


They suck anyway. There is very little building involved (walls tend to be solid/prebuilt, etc).
 
2013-06-30 05:31:21 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: This is so dumb. I don't understand why everything needs to be so clearly defined for boys or girls, like our entire cultural psyche hangs in the balance. I don't even want to bother... I'm going to take a shower with my Old Spice soap, smoke some Marlboros, and have a nightcap of something harsh, bitter, and burning. Like a real man.

You ever consider that things are separated for boys and girls because its what they want?

When I was a kid, we had one Lego set, and it had the same shiat in it. I would build halfass army bases and soldiers. My sister would build halfass castles and princesses.

Now, they make cool military Lego sets and cool princess Lego sets, so why shouldn't boys and girls be able to take advantage of what they want?

You idiots act like boys and girl act the way they do because of some it's what society expects, when in fact it's the exact opposite.


And where does this leave the kids who don't conform? Boys who want pink legos and girls who want star destroyers are told pretty blatantly by their peers, marketers, and the world at large that something is wrong with them. Gender roles are confining. Girls can choose pink, but pink shouldn't just be for girls. Any individual should be able to fall anywhere on the spectrum without all this rigid nonsense.
 
2013-06-30 05:34:52 PM

TheOmni: GF named my left testicle thundercles: sorry dude, parents that have raised boys and girls or observe the children of other parents will all tell you that boys and girls are just different. and when you start getting into biology and medicine (real sciences unlike sociology) it will tell you that the brain structures and cell structures of boys and girls are markedly different and that these differences are present at birth, and many are derived directly from genetics. there are proteins in the nervous system that are directly coded by the Y chromosome.

Yes, they will. I've heard plenty of parents in a discussion of gender norms and boys versus girls talk about how their kids behave. How their girl naturally likes pink so much, even before she could learn that it is a "girly" color. Which is interesting since the idea of pink for girls is a very recent concept. Quite simply parents will often underestimate how much an infant can observe and learn about their surroundings long before they can speak.

And people aren't generally arguing that boys and girls are literally 100% exactly the same. It's a bit more complicated. Which differences are "hard coded", so to speak, and which are learned? On top of that there are issues about how prevalent or absolute some of those difference are (for example, physically, the average height for men is taller than the average height for women. But there are plenty of women that are taller than men and men that are shorter than women).


Wait till you finally see a girl naked. It'll blow your freakin' mind.
 
2013-06-30 05:35:20 PM

TheOmni: GF named my left testicle thundercles: sorry dude, parents that have raised boys and girls or observe the children of other parents will all tell you that boys and girls are just different. and when you start getting into biology and medicine (real sciences unlike sociology) it will tell you that the brain structures and cell structures of boys and girls are markedly different and that these differences are present at birth, and many are derived directly from genetics. there are proteins in the nervous system that are directly coded by the Y chromosome.

Yes, they will. I've heard plenty of parents in a discussion of gender norms and boys versus girls talk about how their kids behave. How their girl naturally likes pink so much, even before she could learn that it is a "girly" color. Which is interesting since the idea of pink for girls is a very recent concept. Quite simply parents will often underestimate how much an infant can observe and learn about their surroundings long before they can speak.

And people aren't generally arguing that boys and girls are literally 100% exactly the same. It's a bit more complicated. Which differences are "hard coded", so to speak, and which are learned? On top of that there are issues about how prevalent or absolute some of those difference are (for example, physically, the average height for men is taller than the average height for women. But there are plenty of women that are taller than men and men that are shorter than women).


Exactly! Lots of what parents assume are biological behavioral traits, like the preference of boys for the colour blue and pink for girls, are learned. Other traits, like the preference for boys to like fast moving things, seems to be inherent and based on unique difference between the eyes of men and women. What science can teach us that generations of parents can't is which traits are actually biologically based and which are culturally transmitted and what the variance is.
 
2013-06-30 05:36:25 PM
Welcome to reality: boys and girls are different.  Some folks need to just accept that.  The wackier feminists can pretend all they want that it isn't so, but it is.
 
2013-06-30 05:48:55 PM

Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.


This sounds logical on the surface but neglects that fathers also partake in child care and says nothing about single fathers/mothers raising daughters/sons.
 
2013-06-30 06:24:11 PM

Gergesa: Arthur Jumbles: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I think part of it is societal expectations, but I've also been around enough kids to know that even one year old girls love baby dolls and will go nuts "caring" for them, while the boys are off in the corner hitting shiat with fake swords.

Yeah, if there's anything 4 year old kids are concerned with, it's "societal expectations"

Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

This sounds logical on the surface but neglects that fathers also partake in child care and says nothing about single fathers/mothers raising daughters/sons.


This.

Also.  No matter what society thinks of as a girl's color, what she ultimately likes is her preference.  What people decide they like is what they like, and will almost never be changed.

Same way you can't influence children to be gay or straight, that's just what they are.

The only exception to the rule of taste: Association conditioning such as torture and shock therapy, or a more accidental but equally jarring experience.  If I'm eating a hamburger and I hit a bone, it may turn my stomach(sometimes this is enough to drive people off, that association), but I may continue eating it after having spit the bone out.  It may take finding a whole rat's tail in the food.  Or simple food poisoning that makes you throw up so much you don't want a hamburger again for a long long time.

Etc.  We can destroy "likes" in this way, or at least sully them to the point where it's painful to partake of that(a matter of semantics here), but we cannot convince people to like that which they do not.  If you dislike the taste of warm piss, odds are, you'll never fall into liking it.

We do have a mechanism where we get a thrill from unpleasant experiences(ultra spicy foods), but that is not the same as genuine appreciation.  We like the rush, and associate the rush with the food.  But if we somehow managed to neurally block that rush, that adrenaline/endorphine(whatever) response, we would incur an instant dislike for that food, because it's not food at that point, it's pure white hot pain.

You can manipulate the system, but you really cannot change it.  If a girl likes pink, it is not because she "learned" to, it's because she likes it.

Now, it may be that we are just now coming to a final truth, after faddish trial and error over centuries, most boys like blue, most girls like pink.   Or maybe it's a sea green and pink.  Maybe it's more of a forest green and purple thing.  But we're probably pretty close.  You've got to remember, previously in history, there wasn't as much variety or pigment readily available.  Now that we're in the time of plenty, maybe it's just that natural tendency finally showing through, now that they have choices available to them.  We're not using adult fashion sense to press on them, we're letting them choose.

That's the remarkably genius side affect of marketing and ad companies.  They know what sells, period.  Sure, they flop now and again because some upstart had a retarded idea but was convincing, but in general, pink really sells well to young girls.

A bunch of greedy analyzing and manipulative bastards they may be, they gave us a structure to really grab some useful information for studying within the scope of psychology and sociology.

What sells to men?
Boobs, of course.  Gadgets, things that (supposedly)do things.

Women. Things that feel good and look nice, things that don't do much but sit there, but they sit there so well.

/over generalization but it's accurate enough for the concept

We all have our tastes, some girls like blue, big deal.  We're just noting popular tendencies.

*shrugs*
 
2013-06-30 07:09:43 PM

ramblinwreck: brokenscissor: I grew up with the white and red Legos so it wasn't until last year, when my daughter was 6, that I discovered that Lego made "girly" Legos. I will say that it was surprising to me. And it irritated me a bit. It just seems a bit off.

That being said, she and I have since built a metropolis out of all types of Legos. The "Friends", "City" and "Creator" series are our favorites. Our discussions while building are priceless.

When she asked for the Lego Friends "Beauty Shop", I balked. Big time. I don't even know why. It just seemed over the line to me. So I bought two. One to build and one for her keepsake box. I had a hunch the girl-marketed Legos would become a controversial issue so I figured she can pawn that thing off some day in its pristine condition. I think I picked the most "huh?" set to duplicate.

I think "outrage" over this is nonsense but as a parent, we do think about these things. We don't want our daughters pigeonholed to the Beauty Shop while the boys are building airplanes or fighting fires. We, or rather me, do both with my daughters in order to compensate for the marketing spiel.

So, you're outraged that your girl likes...uh girl things?  I figured that out when my daughter wasn't remotely interested in my son's toys (e.g., blocks and cars) and wanted to play with dolls and plush animals.  It's almost like biology has something to do with preferences...kind of like jobs in nursing, child care, and social work.  Imagine that.


Yes because it's all about biology and the barrage of images and experiences every kid gets enforcing that some things are "for girls" and some are "for boys" has nothing to do with it.  Neither do the preconceived notions of parents, relatives and other adults.

I was never a big fan of dolls.  I usually had wilderness adventures or dinosaur battles.   My parents accepted this, but I remember older relatives making a point of buying them for me even when I asked for other things and seeming disappointed when I didn't play with them.  Some of them would question me "Why don't you like your dolls?" with that "something is wrong" tone of voice that I probably didn't understand but definitely picked up enough on to remember.  I remember other parents finding my behavior amusing and again there was often a small undercurrent of "what you're doing is strange.  What Jill is doing is normal".  None of these people were mean to me or ever outright criticized what I was doing, but I understood that they felt I was unusual and not in a good way.  I think because my parents were supportive and I was kind of stubborn about being "weird", it never altered how I acted.  However, kids pick up on these things and many who might be interested in both kinds of toys probably just do what they "should" to avoid drawing that kind of attention to themselves.

Swinging the pendulum in the opposite way and exposing them in an encouraging way to things not normally viewed as "girl toys" might help them understand that their interest isn't weird or wrong.  As long as parents are clear about accepting what they're interested in regardless, I think it's a good thing.
 
Ook
2013-06-30 07:21:12 PM
I assume a lot of this is the advertising, parents, and other kids have been saying that lego is for boys for a while now. When I was a kid we had a big bucket of garage-sale purchased lego bricks and my brother and I both built cars, houses, and skyscrapers. It didn't start becoming a problem until one Christmas when both our grandmothers bought me dolls and him a lego set and this enormous 3d puzzle, and he wouldn't let me touch them (which annoyed me no end, he hates puzzles, never assembled it, lost most of the pieces, whereas I adore puzzles and the 3d ones were too expensive for me to buy). It spread from there to the point where he asserted the lego were boy's toys, and when we moved my parents put them all in the toy box in his room (we'd been sharing a room until we were 5&7).

While having these sets would have possibly made the grandmother who bought lego sets decide to buy one for me and one for him, I would still probably never have gotten ones as cool as his (why did no one think to make a pink milennium falcon?), and it would have been even more rigidly "pink lego for girls, everything else for boys".
 
2013-06-30 07:48:05 PM

JonZoidberg: I made my son a Lego table.


That's rad dude.
 
2013-06-30 09:28:46 PM

dfenstrate: CluelessMoron: Lego. Not "legos". It's a mass noun. You have a bucket of Lego. Not a bucket of legos.

/facial tic
//twitching eye

Hey, there's at least one other person in this thread that gives a sh*t about such matters, so you're not alone. (It's not me.)


Yeah, but given the Lego Love in this thread I can't complain too much.

But still: folks; it's Lego. one brick or a thousand, it's just called Lego.   Just like sheep.
 
2013-06-30 10:16:16 PM
Arthur Jumbles:
Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

How does a little baby girl know she's the same gender as her mother?
Does her mother show her her vagina at some point and then point out that the dad hasn't got one?
Based on physical appearance alone any child would assume the actions and characteristics of the father because the mother of any child usually has noticeable breasts and babies and their dads don't have them(usually).
Also babies have very limited Proprioception so they don't know what they look like for the most part anyway.
 
2013-06-30 10:29:00 PM

Actor_au: Arthur Jumbles:
Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

How does a little baby girl know she's the same gender as her mother?
Does her mother show her her vagina at some point and then point out that the dad hasn't got one?
Based on physical appearance alone any child would assume the actions and characteristics of the father because the mother of any child usually has noticeable breasts and babies and their dads don't have them(usually).
Also babies have very limited Proprioception so they don't know what they look like for the most part anyway.


From a linguistic standpoint they notice that they are referred to using the same pronouns. From a visual standpoint they do see themselves naked and notice differences between when they see their parents and siblings naked. Among other mammals pheromones also play an important role and its know that humans respond to these chemicals too so they may play a role, although that's just speculation on my part and not based on research like the linguistic and visual observations that infants are known to make.
 
2013-06-30 10:40:34 PM

Actor_au: ?


I get the clue that he does not know how babby is formed, much less learned.

In his example, you could sub in boy for girl, because the mom was still the typical primary care giver, and look how many boys really fall into that pattern.

Also, typical one year olds are not caring for dolls.  At that age they're barely capable of feeding themselves and just beginning the transition from crawling to walking, maybe.  "Toys" are things clutched or thrown or chewed on. The toys go through two states at that point "Do Not Want, and Want based on passing whim and how interesting they are(soft/hard or light/heavy and/or tastes good, well, tastes, so may as well keep it in my face hole).Beyond that, they don't give two shiats about them or understand much of anything about them.
 
2013-06-30 10:46:33 PM

Arthur Jumbles: From a visual standpoint they do see themselves naked and notice differences between when they see their parents and siblings naked.


You're talking about gender awareness which can begin to happen at age 2-3, not 1.

Seriously dude, you're screwing up enough facts which can be easily attained with google, give it up, we know you're pulling this crap directly from your fudge factory.
 
2013-07-01 12:32:14 AM

omeganuepsilon: Arthur Jumbles: From a visual standpoint they do see themselves naked and notice differences between when they see their parents and siblings naked.

You're talking about gender awareness which can begin to happen at age 2-3, not 1.

Seriously dude, you're screwing up enough facts which can be easily attained with google, give it up, we know you're pulling this crap directly from your fudge factory.


Please don't rely upon Google for up to date scientific information, it tends to reflect the general assumptions and stereotypes of the public at large. If you would like to read a general review of gender development that's a little bit more accurate than what you picked up in your undergraduate psych classes take a look at  Patterns of Gender Development by Martin & Ruble (2010). You'll find that children's gender awareness develops much earlier then we once thought.
 
2013-07-01 12:58:39 AM

Arthur Jumbles: Please don't rely upon Google for up to date scientific information


Arthur Jumbles: Siann, G. (1994). Gender, sex and sexuality


Lulz
 
2013-07-01 01:20:00 AM

omeganuepsilon: Arthur Jumbles: Please don't rely upon Google for up to date scientific information

Arthur Jumbles: Siann, G. (1994). Gender, sex and sexuality

Lulz


Patterns of Gender Development by Martin & Ruble (2010)
 
2013-07-01 01:34:28 AM

Arthur Jumbles: omeganuepsilon: Arthur Jumbles: Please don't rely upon Google for up to date scientific information

Arthur Jumbles: Siann, G. (1994). Gender, sex and sexuality

Lulz

Patterns of Gender Development by Martin & Ruble (2010)


Stilly hypocrisy, it's ok for you to reach back 19 years, but not me.  you didn't offer the 2010 until you attempted to establish some playground rule that amounts to "whatever allows me to win".

And, I'm not sure a mere book title[either one] is a proper cite on fark.  I'll have to check my armchair doctorate.  Please, feel free to hold your breath and wait until the next available secretary, your post is important to us and we will get to it in due time.
 
2013-07-01 01:34:52 AM

Strix occidentalis: What I really wish was around when I was an anklebiter:
[a.tgcdn.net image 600x472]

/but only 'cause there's no Pelennor Fields set


to be honest, i would't want many of the modern sets. I look at them from time to time, and yeah, they look cool, but, there are so many "this piece is custom only for this set" parts now, it takes the fun away. When 80% of a Lego set is one-off large custom pieces, what is the point?

I do still buy legos now, but only the Architecture sets

/Architect, and Lego is the reason.
//Them, and Lincoln Logs
 
2013-07-01 01:54:41 AM
Arthur Jumbles: .........it in due time.
*tsh click*
Hello?   I'm sorry.  Our office has closed for the day, though we do really appreciate you waiting in anticipation to be proven wrong.  If you would like to stay on the line you are welcome to spam your refresh button until such a time as we will grant you the pleasure of responding to your post.  If you choose not to make a post, then by all means, please continue to furiously maturbate while crying, we won't judge.  Thank you for your obstinance, and please, do hesitate to call our troll free number. 1800EATADIK
 
2013-07-01 03:50:42 AM

Actor_au: Arthur Jumbles:
Actually, learning how to operate in society is all that babies care about. The one year old girl loves caring for dolls because she has seen her mother being the primary caregiver for her and since she recognizes that she and her mother share the same gender she knows that carrying for children is one of her gender norms and she's practicing.

How does a little baby girl know she's the same gender as her mother?
Does her mother show her her vagina at some point and then point out that the dad hasn't got one?
Based on physical appearance alone any child would assume the actions and characteristics of the father because the mother of any child usually has noticeable breasts and babies and their dads don't have them(usually).
Also babies have very limited Proprioception so they don't know what they look like for the most part anyway.


I don't know how young children figure out gender, but I know it is something they think about. I have an obviously female appearing body and hair style, yet I've had children ask me if I'm a girl or a boy. If I ask them which I look like, they say 'girl'. When I ask them why they thought I might be a boy, they reply something along the lines of 'because you do boy things', (many of my hobbies and interests are stereotyped as 'masculine') and sometimes 'you wear boy's clothes', which I do wear wear jeans, t-shirts, hoodies and jackets in 'masculine' colors for the most part, with minimal or no makeup, and no nail polish or long nails, though I have skirts and heels too.

So, they clearly pick up that activities and objects are coded for 'girl' or 'boy', and that people's appearance is masculine or feminine, but they don't always understand which ones trumps which in terms of how a person should be perceived. I've had other women tell me this too, other women with masculine hobbies or traits, but women any adult could easily pick out as female, and with feminine features.
 
2013-07-01 09:12:06 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: 47 is the new 42: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Gender roles are bullshiat. Which is why if you took a boy and a girl and raised them identically, they'd end up indistinguishable as adults. Everyone, regardless of genetic makeup, is exactly the same.


[i162.photobucket.com image 363x310]

I can assure you my brother and me are very different.

Can he spot sarcasm?


Sometimes, but apparently my sarcasm detector was looking like this that day:


i162.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-01 09:28:58 AM

47 is the new 42: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Gender roles are bullshiat. Which is why if you took a boy and a girl and raised them identically, they'd end up indistinguishable as adults. Everyone, regardless of genetic makeup, is exactly the same.


[i162.photobucket.com image 363x310]

I can assure you my brother and me are very different.



I think you missed it.
 
2013-07-01 09:45:14 AM

Pangea: 47 is the new 42: I can assure you my brother and me are very different.


I think you missed it.


And then so did I
 
2013-07-01 10:36:41 AM
My daughter is a girly-girl.  She likes dolls, princess dresses and stuffed animals.  I've tried to interest her in different things, with little to no success.  She took an interest in the new girl Legos when she saw they came with little animals.  I don't care that theyr'e mostly pink.  I don't care that they have "feminine" themes.  I don't care that they're different than the boys Leogs.  She has little interest in boys toys at all and if it took a few pink bricks or a tree house set instead of a castle to get her playing with them, I could care less. I'm just happy that she is playing with them and starting to build things on her own.
Why is everyone so concerned that girl Legos are different?  Kids are different.  My daughter doesn't want Harry Potter or Avengers or Deep Sea Diving Lego sets.  She wouldn't play with them even if there were no alternative.  All Lego has done is give her an option.  There is nothing that says she can't play with the other sets if she wants to.  She just chooses the ones that appeal to her.  I'm glad Lego came out with these because there was nothing sweeter than teaching her how to build and watching as she picked it up and took over.
 
2013-07-01 10:57:30 AM

ignaps: My daughter is a girly-girl.  She likes dolls, princess dresses and stuffed animals.  I've tried to interest her in different things, with little to no success.  She took an interest in the new girl Legos when she saw they came with little animals.  I don't care that theyr'e mostly pink.  I don't care that they have "feminine" themes.  I don't care that they're different than the boys Leogs.  She has little interest in boys toys at all and if it took a few pink bricks or a tree house set instead of a castle to get her playing with them, I could care less. I'm just happy that she is playing with them and starting to build things on her own.
Why is everyone so concerned that girl Legos are different?  Kids are different.  My daughter doesn't want Harry Potter or Avengers or Deep Sea Diving Lego sets.  She wouldn't play with them even if there were no alternative.  All Lego has done is give her an option.  There is nothing that says she can't play with the other sets if she wants to.  She just chooses the ones that appeal to her.  I'm glad Lego came out with these because there was nothing sweeter than teaching her how to build and watching as she picked it up and took over.


People are upset because it contradicts their long-standing beliefs (I believe this is called cognitive dissonance, but I suck at English):
- the fact that we have "girl lego" and "boy lego" means your daughter has a choice with respect to what lego sets she wants to play with
- if she (and many girls like her) choose "girl lego" over "boy lego", that suggests (not proves) that girls brains and boys brains *may* be wired differently
- if boys brains and girls brains are indeed wired differently, then claims such as "boys are better than girls at math, girls are better at nurturing and caring" are not necessarily preposterous
- this in turn weakens the argument that "there are no differences between men and women"

The fear is that the above could be used to counter the argument that the only reason men are so privileged is due to the oppressive patriarchal society we live in, when in fact bona-fide differences in skills and abilities between the two genders may actually be a factor.

And *that* is why some people are so mortally terrified of "girl lego".
 
2013-07-01 11:18:39 AM

JonZoidberg: I made my son a Lego table.  I'm pretty proud of the design.  We bought a big load of Duplo off eBay and I built the table around a large rubbermaid bin for them.  There's a slot in the center with rails that holds some square or rectangular platforms that can be removed to dump Lego in or retrieve them.  The plates are fastened down with really sticky putty called "museum putty" that isn't marking up the finish.  Someday, the Duplo plates and inserts can be replaced with standard Lego pieces of the same overall dimensions and the table can take some legs to raise it up a bit.

Here is the table, about ready to be finished:
[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 850x478]

Here is the final product in use- The bin behind him is the brick storage and fits in the table.
[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 850x478]


I will pay you money for a copy of those plans. My EIP.  Just put "Lego" or "Fark" in the subject title.  (new father here)  If I don't hear from you I'll spend a while squinting at what you've got there and I'll figure it out.
/very cool!
//you should be proud!
 
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