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(ABC)   Traffic cameras installed in village, and in first month, issue citations numbering more than triple the village's population. In other news, town budget problems solved   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 22
    More: Asinine, Ohio Village, traffic cameras, credit ratings, villages  
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7179 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jun 2013 at 5:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-29 05:51:06 PM
4 votes:
Actually, from the sounds of it, it looks like people were blowing past this town at unsafe speeds. That 25 MPH speed limit might be BS... but at the same time...

/Normally hates red light cameras
2013-06-29 08:29:29 PM
2 votes:
It doesn't say in the article but this is fairly local for me & has been in & out of the news for a few months now.  One of the things that had a LOT of people really butthurt & was proved by example after example  by Mike Allen (the plaintiff lawyer mentioned in TFA) was the large pile of $105 tickets issued for doing 26 or 27 mph in the 25 zone.  The way that the village/camera company had set things up was that there was NO buffer zone & that anything over 25 mph was going to get a ticket.  While normal people know & understand that it is next to impossible to stay strictly at a given speed without going above or below by a couple of mph, the cameras were set up to ticket everything even 1mph over the limit.  Even the police chief came on the radio & said that there was supposed to be a 5-7 mph buffer but that because the tickets were already issued that he couldn't do anything.....yeah right.

It was a money grab pure & simple & these jerks deserve every bit of the judicial pile driving that they're about to get.  Continuing to run the cameras after being told not to by a sitting judge wasn't a real bright idea.  Nor was the camera company completely ignoring subpoenas & requests for information from the same judge.  Contempt of court is a mild way of describing what they did.  As usual it sucks for the taxpayers who will be stuck paying the bills that these idiots caused, but hopefully there will be some good from this as it sounds like the cameras are about to be completely outlawed in Ohio.
2013-06-29 08:16:43 PM
2 votes:
The cameras in The Village aren't there to solve budget problems, they're for getting information.
i42.tinypic.com
2013-06-29 07:27:21 PM
2 votes:
If these things have ever been about safety, then why aren't there ever any warnings issued?

Also:

"Elmwood was just doing it because they needed money," said the manager of Elmwood Quick Mart, which offers phone cards, lottery tickets and Mexican food, and advertises its willingness to accept food stamps. - TFA

What was the writer trying to do there? Why didn't that sentence stop at "... said the manager ofElmwood Quick Mart"
2013-06-29 06:31:17 PM
2 votes:
Ahh yes. We've seen this article before. Where the camera was installed immediately after a merging exit from Interstate 71 onto the main road. So you're cruising down the off ramp, no warning, then immediately hit a 25MPH zone. You try to slow down, but it's already too late, as you've already been caught by the camera.  Farking money grab. You want it for "safety?" Install this shiat at the school zone where the child was killed.
2013-06-29 05:53:46 PM
2 votes:

Summercat: Actually, from the sounds of it, it looks like people were blowing past this town at unsafe speeds. That 25 MPH speed limit might be BS... but at the same time...


By definition, a speed limit that is exceeded by 85% of drivers is BS.

And red light cameras often raise the accident rate because the city shortens the yellow duration to raise more revenue.  If that isn't "BS," I don't know what is.
2013-06-29 05:49:59 PM
2 votes:
What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.
2013-06-30 07:50:25 AM
1 votes:

lack of warmth: I wouldn't go with a big sign, just a small sign below all the village limit signs. It lets them know speed cameras are around, but they will have to learn the hard way where they are. I don't really have sympathy for the drivers caught. Yes, enforcement was spotty or not existent but since when is that an excuse. I have been hearing from family in NC that the cops have finally decided to enforce speed limits. Evidently everyone wasn't aware any of the roads in NC had a speed limit. The learning curve can be rough if you are thick headed and heavy footed.


The problem is, they aren't caught, they're just fine.  Then the fines keep racking up over the next 20 days or so while the initial notice works its way through the mail, the offending person none the wiser.  It really screws the system up since fine amounts are set under the assumption that you get caught speeding once, see the fine, then hopefully remember said fine and judiciously do the speed limit.  Instead people are getting bills for 5-25 times that amount.  At that point the reaction goes from "oh crap, I'd better not speed again" to "oh crap, I'm not going to have enough money for rent," possibly followed by "well f%$# going to that town" and/or "this is excessive, who do I sue?"

The other thing is, tickets are supposed to be a tool of law enforcement, key word being enforcement.  The entire purpose of enforcement is to make people obey the rules and (important bit) correct them when you see that they aren't.  Allowing the fines to rack up without notifying the person that they've done something wrong isn't law enforcement, its profiteering.

That's the point of the speed readout: that way you know when you've been fined right then, rather than three weeks later.

Also, some people's speedometers get real inaccurate at low speeds.  It'd be a real shiatty thing to have someone trying to follow the law only to get fined anyway because the camera's speedometer says they're going faster.

jayphat: You two should really do a little research into exactly where this camera is, and how the speed limit just appears right out of nowhere. And I mean, no logical person would guess that it all the sudden becomes 25 and you have zero reaction time.


I was speaking in generalities, not about this specific village.  In fact, I was speaking in generalities SPECIFICALLY because I didn't know if the zone change in this case was speed trappish or not.
2013-06-30 02:12:50 AM
1 votes:

ongbok: I don't know about the situation here, but my friend owns a construction equipment rental place that is on the corner of a major street that has a red light camera on it. One day he was telling me about how many people get tickets there, so I watched the camera for about 15 or 20 minutes. In that time I saw atleast 15 people get flashed by the camera for running the light, not stopping behind the white line and not coming to a complete stop behind the white line before making a right turn. And the crazy thing is there is a huge sign saying that the intersection is photo enforced, saying to stop behind the white line and to come to a complete stop behind the white line before baking a right turn. If you get a ticket there it is your own fault.


Pretty much all the people with this attitude are just as sloppy with the details of their driving.

Thing is, right on red is way way down on the list of safety concerns. So far down in actual collisions its not worth putting resources towards.

I've seen RLC's false and flash those who made legal right turns. So I don't turn right on red at RLC intersections. I don't care how much people behind me honk or yell. Even if the ticket could be successfully fought that takes more time than waiting for a life time of green lights in this situation.
2013-06-30 01:43:05 AM
1 votes:

randomjsa: This actually seems like a case of a lot of people feeling like they are entitled to continue breaking the speed limits as opposed to some evil traffic camera story.


$105 ticket for going 26 in a 25 zone.
2013-06-30 01:34:29 AM
1 votes:
This actually seems like a case of a lot of people feeling like they are entitled to continue breaking the speed limits as opposed to some evil traffic camera story.
2013-06-29 09:36:56 PM
1 votes:

lack of warmth: jayphat: DigitalCoffee: jayphat: OgreMagi: You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.

This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.

A merge from what interstate to what road? I'm looking at google earth and all I see in the area is 75. There are few interchanges near that town, and the ones there all seem to end in traffic lights. This means that you not only need to go from 65 to 25 (or whatever the speeds are) but may also need to go to zero and stop. And, if these exit ramps are typical of the ones I have seen in numerous states, they have their own speed limit sign (typically in the 35 MPH to 45 MPH range).

From the last article, it is 75. And Ohio has no such signage unless there is a dramatic turn on the ramp that requires a lower speed for a safe turn..

http://goo.gl/maps/Hz8F0
Here is the exit ramp. See the Church of God?  200 feet before that is the speed limit sign. 50 feet before that is the end of the exit ramp. Unless you are 100% familiar with the area, you will have zero chance of slowing in time without defying the laws of physics.

You should upgrade to a car with brakes.  I hope you do know the speed limit for the expressway is no longer in affect once you hit the exit ramp.  You shouldn't still be going 65 or 70 anyway.  Exit ramps are for slowing down for local speed laws.

I know a steep hill with a 55 limit as you start down it and drops to 35 half way down with a deputy sheriff who loves to sit there all day.  Yes brakes are required to not get a ticket.  I have never gotten a ticket on that road.


Congratulations. You know it's there. What about people who have no clue it is? And is the deputy a robot who tickets at 36MPH at the sign?
2013-06-29 09:24:41 PM
1 votes:

Yogimus: Man On Pink Corner: johnMTS: Lotta butthurt by people who can't just slowdown and pay attention.  OK, the speed limit is now 5 MPH.  Are you going to "slowdown and pay attention"?... what point are your trying to get at here


That all of the self-righteous nannies in this thread have their own personal limits, too.  At some point they, too, will whine when their city or state shakes them down for driving at a reasonable speed for conditions.
2013-06-29 07:52:17 PM
1 votes:
For the record, those radar trailers with the giant light up numbers which show THIS IS YOUR SPEED have been proven to be exponentially more effective than any other method of slowing down drivers in residential areas.  Except maybe a cop actively sitting there with a radar gun pointed at you.
2013-06-29 07:29:44 PM
1 votes:
The one thing I like about automated enforcement is how it's not selective. Suddenly all those law-is-the-law types that supported low speed limits, the revenue schemes, so forth and so on get tickets. It's beautiful.

The people who said they always follow the letter of the law and haven't been pulled over in 20 years who would tell everyone else 'just obey the law' suddenly get ticket after ticket. They've always broken the letter of the law, they just didn't get selected by living breathing cops. Machines however don't recognize social practices. They just issue tickets for any technical violation.

Of course instead of fixing the root cause problem they end up just demanding the automated enforcement stop. Oh well. Another lesson not learned.
2013-06-29 06:55:38 PM
1 votes:
FTFA:Cameras at the village limits and in the school zone dramatically curtailed speeding once citations started going out, Peskin said. From 20,000 speeders clocked in a two-week trial period last summer, the number soon dropped to a quarter of that.

Stop breaking the law and you'll stop being punished.

/Once the Google cars arrive speeding will be a problem of the past.
2013-06-29 06:38:06 PM
1 votes:

GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.


The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.
2013-06-29 06:33:20 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: I've driven through there.  The problem is that you need to cut up Vine street to get to the 75 on ramp.  Before the village, Vine cuts through an abandoned industrial wasteland and looks like this:

[img694.imageshack.us image 800x685]

The speed limit is 35, but it drops to 25 immediately when you reach the village boundary.  Through the village, Vine looks like this:

[img832.imageshack.us image 850x881]

There's street parking and it's crowded, so the 25 mph makes sense.  But they were all douchey about how they went about installing the camera, so instead of fixing their problem, they just made everything worse.


From those pictures, it looks to me like this is a problem that could have been solved with rumble strips.  But that wouldn't be a good way to increase revenue.  It only improves safety.
2013-06-29 06:29:17 PM
1 votes:

Mokmo: BarkingUnicorn: Link's farked for me.  "Bad request."  Is this  Elmwood Place, where a judge ordered all the cameras seized by the Sheriff's department?

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-finds-ohio-village-contempt-155450291.ht ml

Yes it is. Ohio seems to have a lot of these little places that would otherwise be patrolled by county sheriff... I remember another village in Ohio, was it Rome ? Where cops were only doing speed enforcement and municipal courts were a joke. Some laws were made against this...


New Rome actually got dissolved because they were such douches about tickets.
2013-06-29 06:26:48 PM
1 votes:
I've driven through there.  The problem is that you need to cut up Vine street to get to the 75 on ramp.  Before the village, Vine cuts through an abandoned industrial wasteland and looks like this:

img694.imageshack.us

The speed limit is 35, but it drops to 25 immediately when you reach the village boundary.  Through the village, Vine looks like this:

img832.imageshack.us

There's street parking and it's crowded, so the 25 mph makes sense.  But they were all douchey about how they went about installing the camera, so instead of fixing their problem, they just made everything worse.
2013-06-29 06:11:35 PM
1 votes:
I've got mixed feelings on this one. Obviously (just like every other place) they put the cameras in for revenue generation, but it also sounds like they had a genuine problem to tackle there.

But then... after a quick Google street view stroll through town, the main road that appears to be the only one that would have any through traffic on it that's subject to the 25mph speed limit is marked with a sign on one end that's attached to the highline pole where the sign is the same width as the pole, and the other is attached to some antique segmented pole waaaay higher up than mandated by DOT.

On a more personal note: The place is a complete rundown shiathole. Someone blowing through town at 130, crashing through the gas station and burning the whole town down would likely bring Ohio's collective property values up a few points. The seemingly low 25mph limit is actually pretty generous for the streets of that piss stain of a speedbump.
2013-06-29 05:54:11 PM
1 votes:
Gawds I hate headlines like this.

WHICH IS IT, A TOWN OR A VILLAGE?!?
 
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