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(ABC)   Traffic cameras installed in village, and in first month, issue citations numbering more than triple the village's population. In other news, town budget problems solved   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 100
    More: Asinine, Ohio Village, traffic cameras, credit ratings, villages  
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7180 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jun 2013 at 5:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-29 05:47:42 PM  
its government math, so its ok.
 
2013-06-29 05:49:59 PM  
What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.
 
2013-06-29 05:51:06 PM  
Actually, from the sounds of it, it looks like people were blowing past this town at unsafe speeds. That 25 MPH speed limit might be BS... but at the same time...

/Normally hates red light cameras
 
2013-06-29 05:53:46 PM  

Summercat: Actually, from the sounds of it, it looks like people were blowing past this town at unsafe speeds. That 25 MPH speed limit might be BS... but at the same time...


By definition, a speed limit that is exceeded by 85% of drivers is BS.

And red light cameras often raise the accident rate because the city shortens the yellow duration to raise more revenue.  If that isn't "BS," I don't know what is.
 
2013-06-29 05:54:11 PM  
Gawds I hate headlines like this.

WHICH IS IT, A TOWN OR A VILLAGE?!?
 
2013-06-29 06:04:08 PM  
Man, lawbreakers should really avoid that town, huh?
 
2013-06-29 06:04:11 PM  
Link's farked for me.  "Bad request."  Is this  Elmwood Place, where a judge ordered all the cameras seized by the Sheriff's department?

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-finds-ohio-village-contempt-155450291.ht ml
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-06-29 06:05:56 PM  
i5.photobucket.com

Sorry... someone in that senario is breaking the law...
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-06-29 06:09:47 PM  
In addition to the contempt order in the article, the town is facing a camera ban in the state legislature. The House approved a ban on camera enforcement except for school zone speed cameras attended by a police officer.

No matter whether the town has the law on its side, it risks criminal contempt for defying a judge's order.
 
2013-06-29 06:11:35 PM  
I've got mixed feelings on this one. Obviously (just like every other place) they put the cameras in for revenue generation, but it also sounds like they had a genuine problem to tackle there.

But then... after a quick Google street view stroll through town, the main road that appears to be the only one that would have any through traffic on it that's subject to the 25mph speed limit is marked with a sign on one end that's attached to the highline pole where the sign is the same width as the pole, and the other is attached to some antique segmented pole waaaay higher up than mandated by DOT.

On a more personal note: The place is a complete rundown shiathole. Someone blowing through town at 130, crashing through the gas station and burning the whole town down would likely bring Ohio's collective property values up a few points. The seemingly low 25mph limit is actually pretty generous for the streets of that piss stain of a speedbump.
 
2013-06-29 06:19:01 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Link's farked for me.  "Bad request."  Is this  Elmwood Place, where a judge ordered all the cameras seized by the Sheriff's department?

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-finds-ohio-village-contempt-155450291.ht ml


Yes it is. Ohio seems to have a lot of these little places that would otherwise be patrolled by county sheriff... I remember another village in Ohio, was it Rome ? Where cops were only doing speed enforcement and municipal courts were a joke. Some laws were made against this...
 
2013-06-29 06:26:48 PM  
I've driven through there.  The problem is that you need to cut up Vine street to get to the 75 on ramp.  Before the village, Vine cuts through an abandoned industrial wasteland and looks like this:

img694.imageshack.us

The speed limit is 35, but it drops to 25 immediately when you reach the village boundary.  Through the village, Vine looks like this:

img832.imageshack.us

There's street parking and it's crowded, so the 25 mph makes sense.  But they were all douchey about how they went about installing the camera, so instead of fixing their problem, they just made everything worse.
 
2013-06-29 06:27:57 PM  
Simple solution...LASER POINTER from off camera...
 
2013-06-29 06:29:17 PM  

Mokmo: BarkingUnicorn: Link's farked for me.  "Bad request."  Is this  Elmwood Place, where a judge ordered all the cameras seized by the Sheriff's department?

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-finds-ohio-village-contempt-155450291.ht ml

Yes it is. Ohio seems to have a lot of these little places that would otherwise be patrolled by county sheriff... I remember another village in Ohio, was it Rome ? Where cops were only doing speed enforcement and municipal courts were a joke. Some laws were made against this...


New Rome actually got dissolved because they were such douches about tickets.
 
2013-06-29 06:31:17 PM  
Ahh yes. We've seen this article before. Where the camera was installed immediately after a merging exit from Interstate 71 onto the main road. So you're cruising down the off ramp, no warning, then immediately hit a 25MPH zone. You try to slow down, but it's already too late, as you've already been caught by the camera.  Farking money grab. You want it for "safety?" Install this shiat at the school zone where the child was killed.
 
2013-06-29 06:32:50 PM  
They were on pace to issue $4 million in tickets a year, when their city budget was $1.3 million year. If it could be done legally, it would be worth it for private investors to buy some small towns simply to collect speed trap revenue like that. There are, fortunately, some limits to what the public will tolerate, and it sounds like this scheme passed that limit.
 
2013-06-29 06:33:20 PM  

Lsherm: I've driven through there.  The problem is that you need to cut up Vine street to get to the 75 on ramp.  Before the village, Vine cuts through an abandoned industrial wasteland and looks like this:

[img694.imageshack.us image 800x685]

The speed limit is 35, but it drops to 25 immediately when you reach the village boundary.  Through the village, Vine looks like this:

[img832.imageshack.us image 850x881]

There's street parking and it's crowded, so the 25 mph makes sense.  But they were all douchey about how they went about installing the camera, so instead of fixing their problem, they just made everything worse.


From those pictures, it looks to me like this is a problem that could have been solved with rumble strips.  But that wouldn't be a good way to increase revenue.  It only improves safety.
 
2013-06-29 06:36:47 PM  

Lsherm: Mokmo: BarkingUnicorn: Link's farked for me.  "Bad request."  Is this  Elmwood Place, where a judge ordered all the cameras seized by the Sheriff's department?

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-finds-ohio-village-contempt-155450291.ht ml

Yes it is. Ohio seems to have a lot of these little places that would otherwise be patrolled by county sheriff... I remember another village in Ohio, was it Rome ? Where cops were only doing speed enforcement and municipal courts were a joke. Some laws were made against this...

New Rome actually got dissolved because they were such douches about tickets.


They weren't just douches. They were traffic Nazi's that were run by an entire family. Literally.  Everyone on the village board and mayor were related. And when one quit, they replaced them with another family member.
 
2013-06-29 06:38:06 PM  

GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.


The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.
 
2013-06-29 06:38:28 PM  
I got nailed by one a couple months ago in a part of town I visit every 6 months (Dentist's office). I'll now be finding another dentist and writing a letter to the city and him explaining as much (needed to find another dentist anyway). Yeah, I broke the farking law but now I won't have a reason to be in that part of town, and no risk of having a brainfart and getting another ticket.

/These things are a scourge
//One man's butthurt is another man's cost savings
 
2013-06-29 06:41:19 PM  
"Some 70 parishioners, or more than half the congregation at Our Lady of Lavang Catholic Community Church, were ticketed on one Sunday last September."

At least they all had a reason to go to church and ask for forgiveness.

/render unto Caesar and all that...
 
2013-06-29 06:42:57 PM  

yukichigai: GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.

The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.


On a stretch of road used to get to three schools here in Dublin, they just put in the digital speed sign, not a speed camera, and that seems to have done the job.  Because my city government isn't run by a bunch of douches.  They've also been very responsible with money so they we weren't in a financial bind.  When the economy was smoking hot, the city actually banked a few million dollars as a "rainy day fund".  So when the economy tanked and tax revenues dropped, they had that money to fall back on without having to raise taxes or install speed cameras.

Note, the Dublin Police WILL give you a speeding ticket if they catch you, and they do have a few favorite spots to park and wait for speeders, but that's to be expected in any town.
 
2013-06-29 06:46:27 PM  

OgreMagi: yukichigai: GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.

The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.

On a stretch of road used to get to three schools here in Dublin, they just put in the digital speed sign, not a speed camera, and that seems to have done the job.  Because my city government isn't run by a bunch of douches.  They've also been very responsible with money so they we weren't in a financial bind.  When the economy was smoking hot, the city actually banked a few million dollars as a "rainy day fund".  So when the economy tanked and tax revenues dropped, they had that money to fall back on without having to raise taxes or install speed cameras.

Note, the Dublin Police WILL give you a speeding ticket if they catch you, and they do have a few favorite spots to park and wait for speeders, but that's to be expected in any town.


Eastbound 33 near the 271 interchange where it changes from 65 to 55.  Saw that ALOT in college.
 
2013-06-29 06:48:31 PM  

jayphat: OgreMagi: yukichigai: GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.

The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.

On a stretch of road used to get to three schools here in Dublin, they just put in the digital speed sign, not a speed camera, and that seems to have done the job.  Because my city government isn't run by a bunch of douches.  They've also been very responsible with money so they we weren't in a financial bind.  When the economy was smoking hot, the city actually banked a few million dollars as a "rainy day fund".  So when the economy tanked and tax revenues dropped, they had that money to fall back on without having to raise taxes or install speed cameras.

Note, the Dublin Police WILL give you a speeding ticket if they catch you, and they do have a few favorite spots to park and wait for speeders, but that's to be expected in any town.

Eastbound 33 near the 271 interchange where it changes from 65 to 55.  Saw that ALOT in college.


On Hopyard before the military base, about a half mile BEFORE the speed limit increases from 40 to 45.  People tend to jump the gun, and not just to the anticipated speed limit.
 
2013-06-29 06:49:42 PM  

Lsherm: New Rome actually got dissolved because they were such douches about tickets.


Holy fark, what a train wreck of a town!   Seems it was more than traffic tickets, though.
 
2013-06-29 06:51:08 PM  

Nick Nostril: I got nailed by one a couple months ago in a part of town I visit every 6 months (Dentist's office). I'll now be finding another dentist and writing a letter to the city and him explaining as much (needed to find another dentist anyway). Yeah, I broke the farking law but now I won't have a reason to be in that part of town, and no risk of having a brainfart and getting another ticket.

/These things are a scourge
//One man's butthurt is another man's cost savings


I suppose a different route to the dentist is out of the question.
 
2013-06-29 06:55:26 PM  

OgreMagi: yukichigai: GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.

The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.

On a stretch of road used to get to three schools here in Dublin, they just put in the digital speed sign, not a speed camera, and that seems to have done the job.  Because my city government isn't run by a bunch of douches.  They've also been very responsible with money so they we weren't in a financial bind.  When the economy was smoking hot, the city actually banked a few million dollars as a "rainy day fund".  So when the economy tanked and tax revenues dropped, they had that money to fall back on without having to raise taxes or install speed cameras.

Note, the Dublin Police WILL give you a speeding ticket if they catch you, and they do have a few favorite spots to park and wait for speeders, but that's to be expected in any town.


In school zones people really seem to be willing to go a lower speed, at least for the most part.  I think the problem is people just aren't used to going that slow at all so they have no concept of what it should "feel like", if you know what I mean, so the speed readout is a helpful reminder.  Yeah, bad on them for not checking their speedometers, but nobody's perfect.

On the other hand, on the way to my "it's complicated"'s place there's a 30mph zone through a heavy residential area (high volume apartment complexes on both sides of the street) which has a permanent speed readout posted there.  I am usually the ONLY person who does the speed limit through there.  It's really quite depressing sometimes.
 
2013-06-29 06:55:38 PM  
FTFA:Cameras at the village limits and in the school zone dramatically curtailed speeding once citations started going out, Peskin said. From 20,000 speeders clocked in a two-week trial period last summer, the number soon dropped to a quarter of that.

Stop breaking the law and you'll stop being punished.

/Once the Google cars arrive speeding will be a problem of the past.
 
2013-06-29 07:08:40 PM  
Is running an AP story over 4 pages to increase banner ad impressions also a money grab?
 
2013-06-29 07:09:36 PM  
Traffic fines and such shouldn't go to the local community as that is a recipe for corrupt practices. The money should go to the state and then spread around as needed to the local communities.

I'm surprised that these traffic cameras haven't been vandalized.

If they want people to slow down, then put up a sign warning of the traffic camera ahead and that it will issue a ticket for anyone going over the posted speed limit.
 
2013-06-29 07:09:57 PM  
Lotta butthurt by people who can't just slowdown and pay attention.
 
2013-06-29 07:10:23 PM  

yukichigai: GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.

The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.


I wouldn't go with a big sign, just a small sign below all the village limit signs.  It lets them know speed cameras are around, but they will have to learn the hard way where they are.  I don't really have sympathy for the drivers caught.  Yes, enforcement was spotty or not existent but since when is that an excuse.  I have been hearing from family in NC that the cops have finally decided to enforce speed limits.  Evidently everyone wasn't aware any of the roads in NC had a speed limit.  The learning curve can be rough if you are thick headed and heavy footed.
 
2013-06-29 07:14:13 PM  

johnMTS: Lotta butthurt by people who can't just slowdown and pay attention.


lack of warmth: yukichigai: GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.

The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.

I wouldn't go with a big sign, just a small sign below all the village limit signs.  It lets them know speed cameras are around, but they will have to learn the hard way where they are.  I don't really have sympathy for the drivers caught.  Yes, enforcement was spotty or not existent but since when is that an excuse.  I have been hearing from family in NC that the cops have finally decided to enforce speed limits.  Evidently everyone wasn't aware any of the roads in NC had a speed limit.  The learning curve can be rough if you are thick headed and heavy footed.


You two should really do a little research into exactly where this camera is, and how the speed limit just appears right out of nowhere. And I mean, no logical person would guess that it all the sudden becomes 25 and you have zero reaction time.
 
2013-06-29 07:27:21 PM  
If these things have ever been about safety, then why aren't there ever any warnings issued?

Also:

"Elmwood was just doing it because they needed money," said the manager of Elmwood Quick Mart, which offers phone cards, lottery tickets and Mexican food, and advertises its willingness to accept food stamps. - TFA

What was the writer trying to do there? Why didn't that sentence stop at "... said the manager ofElmwood Quick Mart"
 
2013-06-29 07:29:44 PM  
The one thing I like about automated enforcement is how it's not selective. Suddenly all those law-is-the-law types that supported low speed limits, the revenue schemes, so forth and so on get tickets. It's beautiful.

The people who said they always follow the letter of the law and haven't been pulled over in 20 years who would tell everyone else 'just obey the law' suddenly get ticket after ticket. They've always broken the letter of the law, they just didn't get selected by living breathing cops. Machines however don't recognize social practices. They just issue tickets for any technical violation.

Of course instead of fixing the root cause problem they end up just demanding the automated enforcement stop. Oh well. Another lesson not learned.
 
2013-06-29 07:35:04 PM  

leadmetal: The one thing I like about automated enforcement is how it's not selective. Suddenly all those law-is-the-law types that supported low speed limits, the revenue schemes, so forth and so on get tickets. It's beautiful.

The people who said they always follow the letter of the law and haven't been pulled over in 20 years who would tell everyone else 'just obey the law' suddenly get ticket after ticket. They've always broken the letter of the law, they just didn't get selected by living breathing cops. Machines however don't recognize social practices. They just issue tickets for any technical violation.


Also, the cameras are color-blind; no "Driving while Black" tax.
 
2013-06-29 07:35:54 PM  
It's for the greater good.
 
2013-06-29 07:36:37 PM  

johnMTS: Lotta butthurt by people who can't just slowdown and pay attention.


OK, the speed limit is now 5 MPH.  Are you going to "slowdown and pay attention"?
 
2013-06-29 07:43:26 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Nick Nostril: I got nailed by one a couple months ago in a part of town I visit every 6 months (Dentist's office). I'll now be finding another dentist and writing a letter to the city and him explaining as much (needed to find another dentist anyway). Yeah, I broke the farking law but now I won't have a reason to be in that part of town, and no risk of having a brainfart and getting another ticket.

/These things are a scourge
//One man's butthurt is another man's cost savings

I suppose a different route to the dentist is out of the question.


Indeed!
 
2013-06-29 07:47:46 PM  
Linndale, Ohio. I-71 Cleveland. Like 1-mile on the freeway but the ticket rate by Linndale cops was insane. State Troopers eventually told them to stop; they got pissy, not sure what happened.
 
2013-06-29 07:48:20 PM  

Befuddled: The money should go to the state and then spread around as needed to the local communities.


And that's worked so well with the Feds and their blackmailing states to bow to their will.
 
2013-06-29 07:51:08 PM  

Hoblit: If these things have ever been about safety, then why aren't there ever any warnings issued?


There are these things called Speed Limit signs posted everywhere. How much more of a warning/hint does anyone require?

/the tears of those that proclaim that they have a right to speed and break the law are sweet and delicious
 
2013-06-29 07:52:17 PM  
For the record, those radar trailers with the giant light up numbers which show THIS IS YOUR SPEED have been proven to be exponentially more effective than any other method of slowing down drivers in residential areas.  Except maybe a cop actively sitting there with a radar gun pointed at you.
 
2013-06-29 07:54:19 PM  

DigitalCoffee: Hoblit: If these things have ever been about safety, then why aren't there ever any warnings issued?

There are these things called Speed Limit signs posted everywhere. How much more of a warning/hint does anyone require?

/the tears of those that proclaim that they have a right to speed and break the law are sweet and delicious


You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.
 
2013-06-29 07:54:36 PM  
Were people going illegal speeds in certain zones of the village?  If yes, then the method of detection and enforcement is irrelevant.  A camera is just as good as an officer.

It is AMAZING how stupid and petty people are.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-06-29 08:04:00 PM  
marked with a sign on one end that's attached to the highline pole where the sign is the same width as the pole, and the other is attached to some antique segmented pole waaaay higher up than mandated by DOT

Mounted on one telephone pole: Not done by professionals, don't take it seriously. (Maybe enforced, maybe not, but go by the cops and not the signs.)

Mounted on every telephone pole: The lady doth protest too much. As above but more so. A city near me "discovered" that those repeated signs were not authorized by the state.

Mounted on a leaning single post: We need a sign, here's your sign.

Mounted on a double post, NYSDOT style: We care about the value of the speed limit and having it seen.

The more professional the job (in order 2, 1, 3, 4 low to high) the more likely the speed limit is to have been determined based on professional standards rather than revenue or politics. Half or more of those NYSDOT limits were once justified by traffic conditions, at least within 5 mph and 50 years ago.
 
2013-06-29 08:04:48 PM  
 
2013-06-29 08:06:29 PM  

OgreMagi: DigitalCoffee: Hoblit: If these things have ever been about safety, then why aren't there ever any warnings issued?

There are these things called Speed Limit signs posted everywhere. How much more of a warning/hint does anyone require?

/the tears of those that proclaim that they have a right to speed and break the law are sweet and delicious

You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.


This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.
 
2013-06-29 08:06:29 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: johnMTS: Lotta butthurt by people who can't just slowdown and pay attention.

OK, the speed limit is now 5 MPH.  Are you going to "slowdown and pay attention"?



... what point are your trying to get at here
 
2013-06-29 08:16:43 PM  
The cameras in The Village aren't there to solve budget problems, they're for getting information.
i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-06-29 08:29:29 PM  
It doesn't say in the article but this is fairly local for me & has been in & out of the news for a few months now.  One of the things that had a LOT of people really butthurt & was proved by example after example  by Mike Allen (the plaintiff lawyer mentioned in TFA) was the large pile of $105 tickets issued for doing 26 or 27 mph in the 25 zone.  The way that the village/camera company had set things up was that there was NO buffer zone & that anything over 25 mph was going to get a ticket.  While normal people know & understand that it is next to impossible to stay strictly at a given speed without going above or below by a couple of mph, the cameras were set up to ticket everything even 1mph over the limit.  Even the police chief came on the radio & said that there was supposed to be a 5-7 mph buffer but that because the tickets were already issued that he couldn't do anything.....yeah right.

It was a money grab pure & simple & these jerks deserve every bit of the judicial pile driving that they're about to get.  Continuing to run the cameras after being told not to by a sitting judge wasn't a real bright idea.  Nor was the camera company completely ignoring subpoenas & requests for information from the same judge.  Contempt of court is a mild way of describing what they did.  As usual it sucks for the taxpayers who will be stuck paying the bills that these idiots caused, but hopefully there will be some good from this as it sounds like the cameras are about to be completely outlawed in Ohio.
 
2013-06-29 08:31:52 PM  
Is there a speed limit sign before the camera?
If so, stop speeding!
If not, stop ticketing!
 
2013-06-29 08:48:06 PM  

KelvinTheClown: Is running an AP story over 4 pages to increase banner ad impressions also a money grab?


!!!!agreed
 
2013-06-29 08:49:20 PM  
Wasn't there a town in Florida that got dissolved because they got dissolved because they gave out too many tickets.
 
2013-06-29 08:54:36 PM  

lack of warmth: yukichigai: GilRuiz1: What's the point of laws if everybody complains when they are enforced?  Change the law or get rid of it, if everybody's going to be unhappy when you enforce it.

The problem is that they don't give you immediate feedback.  When a cop pulls you over, you know you're caught.  More than likely you'll watch yourself after that and follow the traffic laws, at least for a while.

With traffic cameras on the other hand, when they catch you speeding it gets noted down silently.  You only find out when you get a bill in the mail some weeks later, by which time you've probably done the same thing another 20 times, also on camera.

Speed cameras are an interesting idea, and I think they are in fact a great choice for tiny little towns that can't afford the number of people required to patrol it with the required vigor.  However, I think that when a town like that installs a speed camera part of the deal should be that they also install one of those "your speed is X" digital readouts along with a big-ass sign that says "YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY A SPEED CAMERA".

Of course, that wouldn't generate enough revenue.

I wouldn't go with a big sign, just a small sign below all the village limit signs.  It lets them know speed cameras are around, but they will have to learn the hard way where they are.  I don't really have sympathy for the drivers caught.  Yes, enforcement was spotty or not existent but since when is that an excuse.  I have been hearing from family in NC that the cops have finally decided to enforce speed limits.  Evidently everyone wasn't aware any of the roads in NC had a speed limit.  The learning curve can be rough if you are thick headed and heavy footed.


Not quite. NC is very rural in most places, so people are accustomed to a system of mutually understood salutary neglect: you can go up to 9 over on rural highways, etc, but not so much in school zones.

It has worked well for many years. However, now we have a very greedy and very stupid governor and general assembly in office who are doing everything in their power to slash all expenses for the rich as rapidly as possible, and to shift as much of that burden as they can onto the poor.

The speeding campaign is part of it; it's the village in the article, writ large across an entire state.
 
2013-06-29 08:56:05 PM  

Befuddled: Traffic fines and such shouldn't go to the local community as that is a recipe for corrupt practices. The money should go to the state and then spread around as needed to the local communities.


New Hampshire does both -- state law prohibits traffic fine and nearly all other state-run ANPR, plus moving violations are paid to the county/state, the local community doesn't get the revenue from writing tickets.

Without an income or sales tax, the state needs all the funds it gets, so I don't think NH spreads traffic fine revenue around.
 
2013-06-29 08:58:32 PM  

jayphat: OgreMagi:

You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.

This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.

A merge from what interstate to what road? I'm looking at google earth and all I see in the area is 75. There are few interchanges near that town, and the ones there all seem to end in traffic lights. This means that you not only need to go from 65 to 25 (or whatever the speeds are) but may also need to go to zero and stop. And, if these exit ramps are typical of the ones I have seen in numerous states, they have their own speed limit sign (typically in the 35 MPH to 45 MPH range).
 
2013-06-29 09:06:47 PM  

Summercat: Actually, from the sounds of it, it looks like people were blowing past this town at unsafe speeds.


That's one thing that I didn't see any mention of.  For example, take red light cameras.  My outrage depends on whether or not the intersection is labeled, if it activates for those who entered on a yellow, whether the yellow meets at least NTSB standards, etc...  For speed cameras - I want a label, and to know whether or not it's set to activate 1mph above the speed limit, 5-6, 10-11, etc..

A speed camera that doesn't activate until you're doing 36mph in a 25 is going to get my goat a lot less than one that activates at 26 in a 25.

Summercat: Actually, from the sounds of it, it looks like people were blowing past this town at unsafe speeds. That 25 MPH speed limit might be BS... but at the same time...


If 85% of people are speeding, it's time to do some work on the road.


Recoil Therapy: The way that the village/camera company had set things up was that there was NO buffer zone & that anything over 25 mph was going to get a ticket.  While normal people know & understand that it is next to impossible to stay strictly at a given speed without going above or below by a couple of mph, the cameras were set up to ticket everything even 1mph over the limit.  Even the police chief came on the radio & said that there was supposed to be a 5-7 mph buffer but that because the tickets were already issued that he couldn't do anything.....yeah right.

=

Is $105 for 1 mph over even legal within the state's fines?  I mean, in my area the max fine for 1 mph is $15.  It isn't worth the cop's time until you're doing 5+ over when it hits $50.
 
2013-06-29 09:08:45 PM  

DigitalCoffee: jayphat: OgreMagi: You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.

This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.

A merge from what interstate to what road? I'm looking at google earth and all I see in the area is 75. There are few interchanges near that town, and the ones there all seem to end in traffic lights. This means that you not only need to go from 65 to 25 (or whatever the speeds are) but may also need to go to zero and stop. And, if these exit ramps are typical of the ones I have seen in numerous states, they have their own speed limit sign (typically in the 35 MPH to 45 MPH range).


From the last article, it is 75. And Ohio has no such signage unless there is a dramatic turn on the ramp that requires a lower speed for a safe turn..

http://goo.gl/maps/Hz8F0
Here is the exit ramp. See the Church of God?  200 feet before that is the speed limit sign. 50 feet before that is the end of the exit ramp. Unless you are 100% familiar with the area, you will have zero chance of slowing in time without defying the laws of physics.
 
2013-06-29 09:18:09 PM  

whistleridge: Not quite. NC is very rural in most places, so people are accustomed to a system of mutually understood salutary neglect: you can go up to 9 over on rural highways, etc, but not so much in school zones.

It has worked well for many years. However, now we have a very greedy and very stupid governor and general assembly in office who are doing everything in their power to slash all expenses for the rich as rapidly as possible, and to shift as much of that burden as they can onto the poor.

The speeding campaign is part of it; it's the village in the article, writ large across an entire state.


In the Raleigh and Durham where I have family, 10 over was considered too slow by the locals.  It has only been recently the cops have decided to enforce the speed limit with the usual "why are you doing this".  I have driven that area and I agree with them enforcing the law in which they swore to enforce.  After my last trip, I am totally okay with MI lower speed limit for construction zones.  Fitting a van between a temporary divider and a big rig going 70 at night in the rain is not something I want to keep doing.  The truck behind me didn't help anything either.  An episode of Speeders didn't help my opinion when they showed a NC officer pulling only speeders going excess of 50 in a 35.  Since when is 15 over suppose to be acceptable?
 
2013-06-29 09:19:41 PM  
I'm torn on speed and light cameras. Some places I've been use them well, others have made them seem like a cash grab.

On side streets where there's no reason to be going over 25 I'm fine with them ticketing for 5+ over, but they definitely can be abused.
 
2013-06-29 09:24:41 PM  

Yogimus: Man On Pink Corner: johnMTS: Lotta butthurt by people who can't just slowdown and pay attention.  OK, the speed limit is now 5 MPH.  Are you going to "slowdown and pay attention"?... what point are your trying to get at here


That all of the self-righteous nannies in this thread have their own personal limits, too.  At some point they, too, will whine when their city or state shakes them down for driving at a reasonable speed for conditions.
 
2013-06-29 09:28:33 PM  

edmo: It's for the greater good.


the greater good.

/nods
 
2013-06-29 09:30:40 PM  

Lady Indica: edmo: It's for the greater good.

the greater good.

/nods


The greater good.
 
2013-06-29 09:31:22 PM  

jayphat: DigitalCoffee: jayphat: OgreMagi: You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.

This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.

A merge from what interstate to what road? I'm looking at google earth and all I see in the area is 75. There are few interchanges near that town, and the ones there all seem to end in traffic lights. This means that you not only need to go from 65 to 25 (or whatever the speeds are) but may also need to go to zero and stop. And, if these exit ramps are typical of the ones I have seen in numerous states, they have their own speed limit sign (typically in the 35 MPH to 45 MPH range).

From the last article, it is 75. And Ohio has no such signage unless there is a dramatic turn on the ramp that requires a lower speed for a safe turn..

http://goo.gl/maps/Hz8F0
Here is the exit ramp. See the Church of God?  200 feet before that is the speed limit sign. 50 feet before that is the end of the exit ramp. Unless you are 100% familiar with the area, you will have zero chance of slowing in time without defying the laws of physics.


You should upgrade to a car with brakes.  I hope you do know the speed limit for the expressway is no longer in affect once you hit the exit ramp.  You shouldn't still be going 65 or 70 anyway.  Exit ramps are for slowing down for local speed laws.

I know a steep hill with a 55 limit as you start down it and drops to 35 half way down with a deputy sheriff who loves to sit there all day.  Yes brakes are required to not get a ticket.  I have never gotten a ticket on that road.
 
2013-06-29 09:33:38 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: Yogimus: Man On Pink Corner: johnMTS: Lotta butthurt by people who can't just slowdown and pay attention.  OK, the speed limit is now 5 MPH.  Are you going to "slowdown and pay attention"?... what point are your trying to get at here

That all of the self-righteous nannies in this thread have their own personal limits, too.  At some point they, too, will whine when their city or state shakes them down for driving at a reasonable speed for conditions.


25 mph is the point where vehicle vs pedestrian collisions go from painful to fatal. A 25 mph limit for areas with lots of pedestrians makes sense.
 
2013-06-29 09:36:56 PM  

lack of warmth: jayphat: DigitalCoffee: jayphat: OgreMagi: You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.

This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.

A merge from what interstate to what road? I'm looking at google earth and all I see in the area is 75. There are few interchanges near that town, and the ones there all seem to end in traffic lights. This means that you not only need to go from 65 to 25 (or whatever the speeds are) but may also need to go to zero and stop. And, if these exit ramps are typical of the ones I have seen in numerous states, they have their own speed limit sign (typically in the 35 MPH to 45 MPH range).

From the last article, it is 75. And Ohio has no such signage unless there is a dramatic turn on the ramp that requires a lower speed for a safe turn..

http://goo.gl/maps/Hz8F0
Here is the exit ramp. See the Church of God?  200 feet before that is the speed limit sign. 50 feet before that is the end of the exit ramp. Unless you are 100% familiar with the area, you will have zero chance of slowing in time without defying the laws of physics.

You should upgrade to a car with brakes.  I hope you do know the speed limit for the expressway is no longer in affect once you hit the exit ramp.  You shouldn't still be going 65 or 70 anyway.  Exit ramps are for slowing down for local speed laws.

I know a steep hill with a 55 limit as you start down it and drops to 35 half way down with a deputy sheriff who loves to sit there all day.  Yes brakes are required to not get a ticket.  I have never gotten a ticket on that road.


Congratulations. You know it's there. What about people who have no clue it is? And is the deputy a robot who tickets at 36MPH at the sign?
 
2013-06-29 09:42:21 PM  
dbrunker: The cameras in The Village aren't there to solve budget problems, they're for getting information.

You won't get it.

By hook or by crook, we will.
 
2013-06-29 09:49:41 PM  
Jesus... we have run this story about 5 times now.

It is a serious money grab. the courthouse itself is a joke.

if i wasn't on this ancient phone now i would look it up for y'all. it was explained in the previous threads.
 
2013-06-29 09:50:04 PM  

jayphat: DigitalCoffee: jayphat: OgreMagi: You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.

This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.

A merge from what interstate to what road? I'm looking at google earth and all I see in the area is 75. There are few interchanges near that town, and the ones there all seem to end in traffic lights. This means that you not only need to go from 65 to 25 (or whatever the speeds are) but may also need to go to zero and stop. And, if these exit ramps are typical of the ones I have seen in numerous states, they have their own speed limit sign (typically in the 35 MPH to 45 MPH range).

From the last article, it is 75. And Ohio has no such signage unless there is a dramatic turn on the ramp that requires a lower speed for a safe turn..

http://goo.gl/maps/Hz8F0
Here is the exit ramp. See the Church of God?  200 feet before that is the speed limit sign. 50 feet before that is the end of the exit ramp. Unless you are 100% familiar with the area, you will have zero chance of slowing in time without defying the laws of physics.


OK, looked at the pic. Several things now...

First, I agree with Recoil Therapy above, that giving out tickets for 1 or 2 MPH over is a dick move. You shouldn't start the tickets until 5 over or more.

Second, I went into street view on that pic and zoomed in on the intersection in question. If you stay to the left to either go left or go straight across you have a stop sign. You must stop. If you stay to the right to go right, there is a yield sign. You may not need to stop BUT you must be prepared to stop.

Third. Taking the signage in point two into consideration along with the length of the off ramp there should be no problem in safely slowing down and achieving the 25 MPH posted speed limit.

What it sounds like is happening is that people are treating the off ramp like part of the highway and continuing to do highway speeds rather than like an off ramp and slowing down like they are suppose to do. Sorry, but I'd rule in favor of the tickets in this case (unless they were BS tickets for 1 - 2 MPH over).
 
2013-06-29 10:12:32 PM  

jayphat: Congratulations. You know it's there. What about people who have no clue it is?


All drivers are expected to be watching down the road for things like changing speed limits. Unless the sign is hidden or otherwise obstructed, you should be able to see it in plenty of time to slow. If not, you are driving too fast, or not paying adequate attention.

As for this case, any idiot knows that the off ramps are for slowing from highway speed to local road speed. Everyone should also klnow that local road speeds are usually around 30mph.
 
2013-06-29 10:46:55 PM  

doofusgumby: Gawds I hate headlines like this.

WHICH IS IT, A TOWN OR A VILLAGE?!?


Neither. It's a neighborhood just outside Cincinnati city limits.

jayphat: DigitalCoffee: jayphat: OgreMagi: You seem to have missed the point.  The speed limit in places will drop from 50 to 25 without warning and the camera is just a few yards past the only speed limit sign.  At night you would have to defy the laws of physics to slow down quick enough.

This is what is happening here. A merge from the interstate onto this road. So you're doing 65 down the exit ramp, then all the sudden 25.

A merge from what interstate to what road? I'm looking at google earth and all I see in the area is 75. There are few interchanges near that town, and the ones there all seem to end in traffic lights. This means that you not only need to go from 65 to 25 (or whatever the speeds are) but may also need to go to zero and stop. And, if these exit ramps are typical of the ones I have seen in numerous states, they have their own speed limit sign (typically in the 35 MPH to 45 MPH range).

From the last article, it is 75. And Ohio has no such signage unless there is a dramatic turn on the ramp that requires a lower speed for a safe turn..

http://goo.gl/maps/Hz8F0
Here is the exit ramp. See the Church of God?  200 feet before that is the speed limit sign. 50 feet before that is the end of the exit ramp. Unless you are 100% familiar with the area, you will have zero chance of slowing in time without defying the laws of physics.


Church of God is located in Bond Hill. Elmwood Place is to the west of 75. There are no exits or entrances from 75 located inside Elmwood Place.
 
2013-06-29 10:51:12 PM  
My problem with speed cameras is there is no way to defend yourself. How are you going to remember information from 2 weeks ago if you had no idea you were even cited? How is this even constitutional?
 
2013-06-29 10:51:52 PM  
What's the problem?

The drivers are breaking the law, and cutting up a small town to boot. If they don't like getting $100 speeding tickets they should obey the farking law.

I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.
 
2013-06-29 10:53:20 PM  
I don't know about the situation here, but my friend owns a construction equipment rental place that is on the corner of a major street that has a red light camera on it. One day he was telling me about how many people get tickets there, so I watched the camera for about 15 or 20 minutes. In that time I saw atleast 15 people get flashed by the camera for running the light, not stopping behind the white line and not coming to a complete stop behind the white line before making a right turn. And the crazy thing is there is a huge sign saying that the intersection is photo enforced, saying to stop behind the white line and to come to a complete stop behind the white line before baking a right turn. If you get a ticket there it is your own fault.
 
2013-06-29 10:56:42 PM  

Lsherm: Mokmo: BarkingUnicorn: Link's farked for me.  "Bad request."  Is this  Elmwood Place, where a judge ordered all the cameras seized by the Sheriff's department?

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-finds-ohio-village-contempt-155450291.ht ml

Yes it is. Ohio seems to have a lot of these little places that would otherwise be patrolled by county sheriff... I remember another village in Ohio, was it Rome ? Where cops were only doing speed enforcement and municipal courts were a joke. Some laws were made against this...

New Rome actually got dissolved because they were such douches about tickets.


New Rome was dissolved because council members didn't hold elections they just reappointed themselves. When a new mayor was elected, the council members refused to recognize the new mayor and just held on to the old one, which many of the unelected council members were related to.
 
2013-06-29 10:59:45 PM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: What's the problem?

The drivers are breaking the law, and cutting up a small town to boot. If they don't like getting $100 speeding tickets they should obey the farking law.

I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.


The problem is Vine Street is a major road and 25 mph isn't the correct speed limit for that road. It should be 35 with no parking during rush hours.
 
2013-06-29 11:08:55 PM  

Hoblit: If these things have ever been about safety, then why aren't there ever any warnings issued?

Also:

"Elmwood was just doing it because they needed money," said the manager of Elmwood Quick Mart, which offers phone cards, lottery tickets and Mexican food, and advertises its willingness to accept food stamps. - TFA

What was the writer trying to do there? Why didn't that sentence stop at "... said the manager ofElmwood Quick Mart"


They're trying to emphasize the point that this is a broke-ass town full of broke-ass people.

If they can't make their budget they should disincorporate and join a different city if there isn't township government to take over.
 
2013-06-29 11:09:45 PM  

ethernet76: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: What's the problem?

The drivers are breaking the law, and cutting up a small town to boot. If they don't like getting $100 speeding tickets they should obey the farking law.

I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.

The problem is Vine Street is a major road and 25 mph isn't the correct speed limit for that road. It should be 35 with no parking during rush hours.


Well it's legally signed at 25.

Probably because of the pedestrian fatality mentioned in the article.

Don't like to drive at 25 for a thirty of a mile? I'm sure the dead person's family felt similarly put out.
 
2013-06-29 11:16:40 PM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.


Clearly those people would have been safer if the drivers had been staring at their speedometers at the time.
 
2013-06-29 11:37:56 PM  
Too lazy to read the thread, but has anyone suggested that once they raised enough revenue to hire more cops they should have done that since the whole reason they SAY they go the speed camera was because they didn't have enough cops?
 
2013-06-29 11:45:51 PM  
"Maryland-based Optotraffic, owner and operator of the photo enforcement system in return for 40 percent of revenue, had already reaped $500,000 in about four months. "
as also stated by recoil therapy above.
$$$$$$$$
 
2013-06-29 11:46:31 PM  
I have no sympathy for the people getting tickets
Awhile back I moved to a new apartment after getting a new job
My street looked no different than any others in the neighborhood. Same width, speed limit, parking. It was just a normal neighborhood street
But it turned out my street was a thourofare to get from one part of the city to another
There were other main streets, but mine was a more direct route and no stop lights, just signs
Constant speeding traffic 24/7
I moved out 6 months later once I knew the area better
 
2013-06-29 11:51:37 PM  
I'm all for speed cameras so long as they're honest. I actually obey the law, so hey, no problemo for me. More importantly, I don't want my police force wasting their time in speedtraps or writing tickets. So yeah, go ahead and sub out manpower to delegate a trivial task to a robot, don't like it? Don't fuggin' break the law dumbass.
 
2013-06-29 11:59:22 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.

Clearly those people would have been safer if the drivers had been staring at their speedometers at the time.


Yes let's all ignore the farking speed we're driving at.

Then whine about getting a farking ticket cos we were ignoring the farking speed we're driving at.
 
2013-06-30 12:19:52 AM  
-10 points for making me read this 5 times before it made any sense.
 
2013-06-30 12:20:00 AM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Man On Pink Corner: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.

Clearly those people would have been safer if the drivers had been staring at their speedometers at the time.

Yes let's all ignore the farking speed we're driving at.

Then whine about getting a farking ticket cos we were ignoring the farking speed we're driving at.


Depends on what you're trying to accomplish, I suppose.
 
2013-06-30 12:54:42 AM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Man On Pink Corner: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.

Clearly those people would have been safer if the drivers had been staring at their speedometers at the time.

Yes let's all ignore the farking speed we're driving at.

Then whine about getting a farking ticket cos we were ignoring the farking speed we're driving at.


So you don't have a problem with handing out speeding tickets for someone going 26 in a 25 zone? That's one of the complaints.
 
2013-06-30 01:08:32 AM  

T Baggins: There are, fortunately, some limits to what the public will tolerate, and it sounds like this scheme passed that limit.


Yep, you need to learn how to boil the frog properly if you're going to turn every last nook in America into an oppressive shiathole for profit.
 
2013-06-30 01:10:04 AM  

Fibro: Were people going illegal speeds in certain zones of the village?  If yes, then the method of detection and enforcement is irrelevant.  A camera is just as good as an officer.

It is AMAZING how stupid and petty people are.


26 in a 25 is an illegal speed.

Also, cameras don't understand the concept of, "I'ma let choo off with a warning this time, Speedy Gonzalez."

Point is 99% of people dont really like zero-tolerance bullshiat. Apparently you're in the 1%
 
2013-06-30 01:34:29 AM  
This actually seems like a case of a lot of people feeling like they are entitled to continue breaking the speed limits as opposed to some evil traffic camera story.
 
2013-06-30 01:43:05 AM  

randomjsa: This actually seems like a case of a lot of people feeling like they are entitled to continue breaking the speed limits as opposed to some evil traffic camera story.


$105 ticket for going 26 in a 25 zone.
 
2013-06-30 01:48:15 AM  
I give up.  Fark comments threads are now distinguishable from those on YouTube only by the number of words spelled correctly in each post.
 
2013-06-30 02:12:50 AM  

ongbok: I don't know about the situation here, but my friend owns a construction equipment rental place that is on the corner of a major street that has a red light camera on it. One day he was telling me about how many people get tickets there, so I watched the camera for about 15 or 20 minutes. In that time I saw atleast 15 people get flashed by the camera for running the light, not stopping behind the white line and not coming to a complete stop behind the white line before making a right turn. And the crazy thing is there is a huge sign saying that the intersection is photo enforced, saying to stop behind the white line and to come to a complete stop behind the white line before baking a right turn. If you get a ticket there it is your own fault.


Pretty much all the people with this attitude are just as sloppy with the details of their driving.

Thing is, right on red is way way down on the list of safety concerns. So far down in actual collisions its not worth putting resources towards.

I've seen RLC's false and flash those who made legal right turns. So I don't turn right on red at RLC intersections. I don't care how much people behind me honk or yell. Even if the ticket could be successfully fought that takes more time than waiting for a life time of green lights in this situation.
 
2013-06-30 07:50:25 AM  

lack of warmth: I wouldn't go with a big sign, just a small sign below all the village limit signs. It lets them know speed cameras are around, but they will have to learn the hard way where they are. I don't really have sympathy for the drivers caught. Yes, enforcement was spotty or not existent but since when is that an excuse. I have been hearing from family in NC that the cops have finally decided to enforce speed limits. Evidently everyone wasn't aware any of the roads in NC had a speed limit. The learning curve can be rough if you are thick headed and heavy footed.


The problem is, they aren't caught, they're just fine.  Then the fines keep racking up over the next 20 days or so while the initial notice works its way through the mail, the offending person none the wiser.  It really screws the system up since fine amounts are set under the assumption that you get caught speeding once, see the fine, then hopefully remember said fine and judiciously do the speed limit.  Instead people are getting bills for 5-25 times that amount.  At that point the reaction goes from "oh crap, I'd better not speed again" to "oh crap, I'm not going to have enough money for rent," possibly followed by "well f%$# going to that town" and/or "this is excessive, who do I sue?"

The other thing is, tickets are supposed to be a tool of law enforcement, key word being enforcement.  The entire purpose of enforcement is to make people obey the rules and (important bit) correct them when you see that they aren't.  Allowing the fines to rack up without notifying the person that they've done something wrong isn't law enforcement, its profiteering.

That's the point of the speed readout: that way you know when you've been fined right then, rather than three weeks later.

Also, some people's speedometers get real inaccurate at low speeds.  It'd be a real shiatty thing to have someone trying to follow the law only to get fined anyway because the camera's speedometer says they're going faster.

jayphat: You two should really do a little research into exactly where this camera is, and how the speed limit just appears right out of nowhere. And I mean, no logical person would guess that it all the sudden becomes 25 and you have zero reaction time.


I was speaking in generalities, not about this specific village.  In fact, I was speaking in generalities SPECIFICALLY because I didn't know if the zone change in this case was speed trappish or not.
 
2013-06-30 01:22:57 PM  

DigitalCoffee: Hoblit: If these things have ever been about safety, then why aren't there ever any warnings issued?

There are these things called Speed Limit signs posted everywhere. How much more of a warning/hint does anyone require?

/the tears of those that proclaim that they have a right to speed and break the law are sweet and delicious


The funny thing about that is when I leave Abilene for DFW I don't see any speed limit signs on I-20 until I hit the next county. I think it might be 75 but I honestly don't know until I leave the county after several miles of driving.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-06-30 02:35:50 PM  
Tobin_Lam

I-20 near Abilene has been 75 since early last year. http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/safety/75mph/0212.pdf. There is supposed to be a speed limit sign after every interchange on a freeway. Maybe Texas got lazy. You could contact the DOT district office and ask for a sign.
 
2013-06-30 03:06:40 PM  

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: ethernet76: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: What's the problem?

The drivers are breaking the law, and cutting up a small town to boot. If they don't like getting $100 speeding tickets they should obey the farking law.

I've seen several people hit by cars and I have more sympathy for them than for some coont driver who can't obey the farking law.

The problem is Vine Street is a major road and 25 mph isn't the correct speed limit for that road. It should be 35 with no parking during rush hours.

Well it's legally signed at 25.

Probably because of the pedestrian fatality mentioned in the article.

Don't like to drive at 25 for a thirty of a mile? I'm sure the dead person's family felt similarly put out.


For what should be obvious reasons given the slant of the article, the details about the pedestrian death were left out.  The ONE pedestrian fatality that is being loudly trumpeted as the reason for all this 'safety' nonsense, was actually a junkie that stumbled out from between two cars in the middle of the day.  The driver had zero chance to slow down let alone stop & quite frankly I doubt that the dead guy's family has even noticed that he's not coming around any longer.
 
2013-06-30 03:15:42 PM  
So, what I'm gathering here is that speed limits are gentle suggestions and those stupid pedestrians should just look the fark out because people got places to be?
 
2013-06-30 07:11:11 PM  

Daniels: stupid pedestrians should just look the fark out because people got places to be?


Well, you have to admit that WOULD solve a big chunk of the problem.
 
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