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(Gawker)   It's kind of reassuring to know that despite all the technological and social advances that have taken place over the past 40 years, American kids these days are just as dumb as their parents were. USA USA USA   (gawker.com) divider line 65
    More: Obvious, United States, No Child Left Behind Act, National Assessment of Educational Progress, report cards  
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5471 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jun 2013 at 2:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-28 01:44:38 PM  
Since parents are the initial teachers and pass their interest in education onto their children (in general), this news is shocking. Why are teachers such lousy parents?
 
2013-06-28 02:25:14 PM  
His blog sucks.
 
2013-06-28 02:26:23 PM  
I must be getting dumber, because I find most of the kids I know are surprisingly bright.

They act strange due to the tech they're surrounded by, but they're not dumb.
 
2013-06-28 02:28:19 PM  
Every once in a while you run into one of these fresh-mouthed young high school graduates declaring they're going to "change the world" with ...  their "great idea for an electronic dance beat."

Looks like someone watched Portlandia. "Change the world one party at a time".
 
2013-06-28 02:33:25 PM  
Only as dumb  as?
 
2013-06-28 02:35:10 PM  
Get off my lawn.
 
2013-06-28 02:36:07 PM  
Your blog shares many qualities with your mom.

They both suck.
 
2013-06-28 02:37:20 PM  
Puts another 8 track in the stereo.
 
2013-06-28 02:39:52 PM  

uncleacid: Puts another 8 track in the stereo.


All I have is Don MacClean.
 
2013-06-28 02:40:00 PM  
...thanks to the wholesale abandonment of our public education system by political ideologues.

Maybe the nature of education has changed with TV and internet.

Maybe the education system hasn't been updating itself.

I remember having to each kids maths - from algebra and calculus - when I damn knew a CAS could what they take 20 mins to do in a fraction of a second.

Hopefully online education will take over and cause that radical change that is a mess.


Test scores for high school students haven't improved in 40 years.

Test scores are a metric that doesn't measure a lot of important things.
 
2013-06-28 02:40:41 PM  
Why would anyone deny (or even be surprised) that we're the same as we always were?
 
2013-06-28 02:40:50 PM  
I think, after a bit of introspection, my snowflakes would be above average. I know where I was hindered and I think I could provide better in a few spots. Of course, one of my major problems has always been that I was an only child of a pair of shut ins so maybe it's not an issue to worry about.
 
2013-06-28 02:40:53 PM  

Summercat: Your blog shares many qualities with your mom.

They both suck.


It's Gawker, that's a given.

Since I don't want to give them pageviews, would someone kindly pastebin the article?
 
2013-06-28 02:41:55 PM  

graeth: Only as dumb  as?


Yeah; if the tests we've been using are any indication, it's only getting worse. They rework the rubrics every so often to mask the downward slide, but that only works for so long, and then they have to rework them again.

After multiple decades of attacking teachers, pretty much to no avail, you'd think we as a society would finally be willing to admit that teachers are not the problem, and never have been, and start looking elsewhere for the cause of our troubles.
 
hej [TotalFark]
2013-06-28 02:45:30 PM  
Probably dumber, given the rightwing conservative determination to gut public education monetarily and ethically.
 
2013-06-28 02:47:06 PM  
Good to know that throwing lots of money has made things so much better.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/expenditures/tables/table_06.asp
 
2013-06-28 02:49:47 PM  
Only some, mine are both well above grade level (this says more about our standards than it does about them, they are bright but not savants). Of course we supplement at home. www.aleks.com is a great affordable site to get your kids ahead in math for example.


/I am not affiliated with that site at all, I just think that parents who rely on public education alone get the results they deserve
 
2013-06-28 02:49:50 PM  

SomeoneDumb: Why would anyone deny (or even be surprised) that we're the same as we always were?


Seriously?  You haven't noticed constant denial to be a common human characteristic?
 
2013-06-28 02:50:51 PM  

Millennium: graeth: Only as dumb  as?

Yeah; if the tests we've been using are any indication, it's only getting worse. They rework the rubrics every so often to mask the downward slide, but that only works for so long, and then they have to rework them again.

After multiple decades of attacking teachers, pretty much to no avail, you'd think we as a society would finally be willing to admit that teachers are not the problem, and never have been, and start looking elsewhere for the cause of our troubles.


Parents will never allow it.
 
2013-06-28 02:50:59 PM  
Test scores for high school students haven't improved in 40 years.

This would be a greater condemnation of the previous generation due to the constructive nature of knowledge in society and responsibility of the previous generation to impart such knowledge to the current generation. However, we have 'standards creep' in education, where standards for curriculum continue to condense, meaning students now learn skills and content earlier. While the scores have not changed, the assessments have. Saying scores have not improved and therefore this generation knows the same amount as the last is like getting 95% in third and 95% in fourth and saying the student has learned nothing between grades (although less obvious).

Now, this is not to say we have improved our education system. Having standards condensed is not the same as having standards raised due to developmental limitations to process information. We have not become better as a system. What we have done is continued to emphasize higher education including advanced placement, and those have continued to grow. This is not to say our students know more, are more prepared, or similar, nor is this to say higher education should be emphasized as strongly or advanced placement is a good manner of education; rather, if we are speaking about student scores, we are speaking of the mundane 'knowing more of the content'.

We are still in our same rickety, lethargic system from about a century ago which is utterly unprepared for the modern world.
 
2013-06-28 02:52:00 PM  
and your noiseless cars

Really? Because every little cocksucker who can actually afford a car around here seems to make it as obnoxiously loud as humanly possible. And I'm not talking like vintage muscle car loud. I'm talking that high pitched lawn trimmer on rocket fuel sound followed by a very unhealthy sounding "BRACK BRACK brack brack" and a steady "WHOOMP WHOOMP WHOOMP" from their crappy, racist, sexist, violent, no talent bullsh*t "music" that is so loud and bassy it's shaking the bolts of their entire little pissbucket of a sh*twagon which adds even MORE obnoxious noise to the racket.

FUUUUuuuuu....

So I guess this is what it's like to get old.

*sigh*
 
2013-06-28 02:53:59 PM  

ikanreed: SomeoneDumb: Why would anyone deny (or even be surprised) that we're the same as we always were?

Seriously?  You haven't noticed constant denial to be a common human characteristic?


Ooops. I forgot.
 
2013-06-28 02:54:02 PM  
Liberals and teachers unions have had a stranglehold on education for at least the past 40 years.  Improving scores leads to wealthier people and that's a capitalist thought.  The fascists and commies can't have that.  They need people dumb enough to believe things like Hope and Change.
 
2013-06-28 02:54:34 PM  

Sudlow: Good to know that throwing lots of money has made things so much better.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2011/expenditures/tables/table_06.asp


It's not that the additional money is being misused, the entirity is misused.

These students are still being trained to be rank and file employees in a industrial age economy. These kids are going to be obsolete before they try to find their first job.
 
2013-06-28 02:57:55 PM  
It actually is reassuring to know that, in spite of stories from the Atlanta Public School System, most Americans still refuse to cheat on tests to pretend they're smarter than they actually are.

/China, not so much
//nor Russia
 
2013-06-28 02:58:33 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Conservatives and bible thumpers have had a stranglehold on education for at least the past 1000 years.  Improving scores leads to a more healthy, productive and prosperous society and that should be undermined at all costs.  The true patriots and corporations can't have that.  They need people dumb enough to believe things like creationism and bowing down to their wealthy masters.


fixed
 
2013-06-28 02:58:39 PM  
Shouldn't be surprising at all.  Research shows that IQ is a largely inheritable trait  and no amount of teaching or exposure to technology is going to magically turn someone who is stupid into someone who is smart. I do think the average cognitive ability is going to trend lower going forward because previously, when the environment was harsh, it was the stupid ones that got killed off, ensuring intelligence was a selected trait.  Modern society, with all its safety features, has ensured even the stupidest among us will likely live long enough to reproduce.
 
2013-06-28 03:01:27 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Liberals and teachers unions have had a stranglehold on education for at least the past 40 years.  Improving scores leads to wealthier people and that's a capitalist thought.  The fascists and commies can't have that.  They need people dumb enough to believe things like Hope and Change.


The libs!  I knew it was them all along!
 
2013-06-28 03:02:52 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Americans still refuse to cheat on tests to pretend they're smarter than they actually are.


Unfortunately, it's for the same reason most kids stay away from books:

It's uncool to be smart. They are proud to be dumb.
 
2013-06-28 03:07:24 PM  

Pumpernickel bread: Research shows that IQ is a largely inheritable trait  and no amount of teaching or exposure to technology is going to magically turn someone who is stupid into someone who is smart.


Not really. There are inheritable aspects, but intelligence is significantly environmental, which means this is also developmental rather than fixed. What this says is we need earlier interventions to assure a person does not become 'stupid' via delayed development.

Pumpernickel bread: I do think the average cognitive ability is going to trend lower going forward because previously, when the environment was harsh, it was the stupid ones that got killed off, ensuring intelligence was a selected trait.


Intelligence is a curious trait which is hard to quantify and ascribe the same qualities to as other traits. Our cognitive load, processing systems, plasticity, dramatically lengthened childhood, etc., have all been developed over millions of years and refined over hundreds of thousands of years, and only in recent biological history have we been able to combine the products of our collective and historical intelligence, and only in extremely recent times has this meant the environment is no longer harsh.
 
2013-06-28 03:15:31 PM  
People in other countries are so much smarter and more sophisticated than people this country
 
2013-06-28 03:28:59 PM  

doubled99: People in other countries are so much smarter and more sophisticated than people this country


Totally, The Saudi's have really made leaps with their witchcraft investigation unit.
 
2013-06-28 03:33:09 PM  
"How little man himself has changed..."

i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-06-28 03:37:30 PM  

DubtodaIll: doubled99: People in other countries are so much smarter and more sophisticated than people this country

Totally, The Saudi's have really made leaps with their witchcraft investigation unit.


Not to mention their outlawing of homosexuality and proud support of capital punishment. They're like a GOP dream come true!
 
2013-06-28 03:38:17 PM  

SomeoneDumb: DubtodaIll: doubled99: People in other countries are so much smarter and more sophisticated than people this country

Totally, The Saudi's have really made leaps with their witchcraft investigation unit.

Not to mention their outlawing of homosexuality and proud support of capital punishment. They're like a GOP dream come true!


if only there weren't so many brownies.
 
2013-06-28 03:42:31 PM  

Pumpernickel bread: Shouldn't be surprising at all.  Research shows that IQ is a largely inheritable trait  and no amount of teaching or exposure to technology is going to magically turn someone who is stupid into someone who is smart. I do think the average cognitive ability is going to trend lower going forward because previously, when the environment was harsh, it was the stupid ones that got killed off, ensuring intelligence was a selected trait.  Modern society, with all its safety features, has ensured even the stupidest among us will likely live long enough to reproduce.


You do realize that they keep 'adjusting IQ tests over time to keep the average centered on 100.
 
2013-06-28 03:44:53 PM  

here to help: and your noiseless cars

Really? Because every little cocksucker who can actually afford a car around here seems to make it as obnoxiously loud as humanly possible. And I'm not talking like vintage muscle car loud. I'm talking that high pitched lawn trimmer on rocket fuel sound followed by a very unhealthy sounding "BRACK BRACK brack brack" and a steady "WHOOMP WHOOMP WHOOMP" from their crappy, racist, sexist, violent, no talent bullsh*t "music" that is so loud and bassy it's shaking the bolts of their entire little pissbucket of a sh*twagon which adds even MORE obnoxious noise to the racket.

FUUUUuuuuu....

So I guess this is what it's like to get old.

*sigh*


heh

/got a 70 GTO
//loudest car on the block :)
 
2013-06-28 03:45:49 PM  
Man, if you're going to tell a bunch of teenagers to suck it, shouting it at the Internet is not the best idea. They won't care and the NSA filters probably aren't that great.
 
2013-06-28 03:50:00 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
/Oblig
//Link it like it's hot.
 
2013-06-28 04:09:20 PM  
i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-06-28 04:13:44 PM  

Vangor: Pumpernickel bread: Research shows that IQ is a largely inheritable trait and no amount of teaching or exposure to technology is going to magically turn someone who is stupid into someone who is smart.

Not really. There are inheritable aspects, but intelligence is significantly environmental, which means this is also developmental rather than fixed.


Inheritance through memetics -for example, parenting styles, long known to run in families- is still inheritance of a sort. The correlation isn't as strong as it is in genetics, but it's still strong enough that it shouldn't be ignored.

What this says is we need earlier interventions to assure a person does not become 'stupid' via delayed development.

The problem with this is that it attacks only one side of the problem, and I'm not sure that's enough.

For all that we talk about children raised by television, parents remain the number one spreaders of memes throughout childhood, and their influence along these lines is stronger than schools. The end result is that interventions along these lines will mean very little if parents do not cooperate. If they aren't convinced, they won't convince their kids: they might or might not work against you, but they won't work with you. And if you don't have them aboard, then you've very nearly lost before you even begin.

So you can't just intervene where kids are concerned. You also have to intervene where parents are concerned. There are an awful lot of education skeptics out there, and for all that that certain elements of our sociopolitical dialogue love to caricature them as being nothing more than crass anti-intellectuals, that simply isn't the case for most. We need better arguments than that.
 
2013-06-28 04:20:05 PM  
Given the change in student demographics over the past 40 years (blacks and hispanics are a much larger share of the student population) remaining in place is an impressive feat.

See below for an illustration of the black-white gap.

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/statecomparisons/withinyear.asp x? usrSelections=0%2cRED%2c1%2c0%2cwithin%2c0%2c0
 
2013-06-28 04:21:11 PM  
It's almost like the people who run the education system don't want a highly educated population regularly engaging in critical thinking when they could have one just educated enough to get the job done while blindly following whatever "their team" tells them is true.
 
2013-06-28 04:25:10 PM  

here to help: and your noiseless cars

Really? Because every little cocksucker who can actually afford a car around here seems to make it as obnoxiously loud as humanly possible. And I'm not talking like vintage muscle car loud. I'm talking that high pitched lawn trimmer on rocket fuel sound followed by a very unhealthy sounding "BRACK BRACK brack brack" and a steady "WHOOMP WHOOMP WHOOMP" from their crappy, racist, sexist, violent, no talent bullsh*t "music" that is so loud and bassy it's shaking the bolts of their entire little pissbucket of a sh*twagon which adds even MORE obnoxious noise to the racket.

FUUUUuuuuu....

So I guess this is what it's like to get old.

*sigh*


Yeah, when I was young punk was king, and they were mostly tolerant, enlightened and talented musicians, unlike the modern era.
 
2013-06-28 04:31:32 PM  

xria: here to help: and your noiseless cars

Really? Because every little cocksucker who can actually afford a car around here seems to make it as obnoxiously loud as humanly possible. And I'm not talking like vintage muscle car loud. I'm talking that high pitched lawn trimmer on rocket fuel sound followed by a very unhealthy sounding "BRACK BRACK brack brack" and a steady "WHOOMP WHOOMP WHOOMP" from their crappy, racist, sexist, violent, no talent bullsh*t "music" that is so loud and bassy it's shaking the bolts of their entire little pissbucket of a sh*twagon which adds even MORE obnoxious noise to the racket.

FUUUUuuuuu....

So I guess this is what it's like to get old.

*sigh*

Yeah, when I was young punk was king, and they were mostly tolerant, enlightened and talented musicians, unlike the modern era.


Punk did occupy a similar place, granted, but at the same time I never saw somebody blasting Black Flag and blow out their car windows.

They probably would have if the technology existed, though.

RONNIE JAMES DIO AND THE PROPHETS WOOOOOO 1963
 
2013-06-28 04:33:02 PM  

Millennium: Inheritance through memetics -for example, parenting styles, long known to run in families- is still inheritance of a sort. The correlation isn't as strong as it is in genetics, but it's still strong enough that it shouldn't be ignored.


I was responding specifically to his claim about intelligence being "largely inheritable" which he contrasted with teaching and exposure (to technology); he is not speaking of any sort other than genetics.

However, the correlation between environment and intelligence is far stronger than genetics and intelligence, the only issue is the noise from a plethora of environmental factors with the variety of human development makes saying what is efficient, effective, etc., in other contexts difficult.

Millennium: The problem with this is that it attacks only one side of the problem, and I'm not sure that's enough.


My apologies. The word 'intervention' was not meant on a strictly school-basis. I use 'intervention' to include any deliberate activity, strategy, etc., to maintain accelerated development in my work with parents and peers of gifted. We are in absolute agreement on this fact.
 
2013-06-28 04:40:39 PM  
We actually take an active interest in our kids education.  We sit there and do their homework with them.  And this is what I find frustrating...  Many times, especially with my daughter, she is asking questions that should have been explained in class.  But they weren't.  So now it's up to me to explain it.

There is that, and also this pesky thing about how the teachers are coming up with new and bizaar methods for solving math problems.   A couple of weeks ago, I was going over some algebra problems with my daughter.  When I tried to show her the correct way to solve it, she was like, "no, the teacher says to do it THIS way, but I don't understand it."  "Ok, fine.  This is the RIGHT way."

If you haven't had the chance yet, it's actually quite amusing to relive middle school algebra.  Especially when there are fractions involved.
 
2013-06-28 04:48:25 PM  
"just as dumb"? I don't remember any 20 year olds in my Senior Class. We could also read what we wrote.
www.upl.co
 
2013-06-28 04:57:12 PM  

xria: Yeah, when I was young punk was king, and they were mostly tolerant, enlightened and talented musicians, unlike the modern era.


Not sure if sarcastic but although the punk community did indeed have it's downsides, as a whole there was quite a bit of creativity, talent and thought behind much of it. It was just presented in the most shocking and dickish way possible.

I find it humorous watching movies from the 80's where the nasty street hoods are always in some ridiculous "punk" get up. Yeah there were some dirtbags in the scene but most were just out to party and be obnoxious. Of the angry white kid groups of the era the rockers/metalheads were the ones more likely to mug/rape you, break into your house, hold up a liquor store, go on psychotic killing sprees, etc. There were much more of them too.

The punk look was more frightening to your average normie though I guess. The metalheads just looked like hippies who had taken a bath and dressed a little better and no one was scared of hippies anymore.
 
2013-06-28 05:18:50 PM  

OnlyM3: "just as dumb"? I don't remember any 20 year olds in my Senior Class. We could also read what we wrote.
[www.upl.co image 850x625]


What the fark is that thing?
 
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