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(ACLU)   Time for this year's Creationism Follies, where your great-grandpa had a pet dinosaur and all fossils came from the Great Flood   (aclu.org) divider line 34
    More: Unlikely, Creationism Follies, apologetics, Creation Museum, certified teacher, community schools, school year, private schools  
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6533 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jun 2013 at 1:57 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-06-28 02:29:04 PM  
4 votes:
6 inches of rain per minute, worldwide, over a period of forty days. Sea level increasing by an inch every ten seconds.

Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Those creatures were able to be herded onto the ship despite the general majority of them not living within walking distance of the old man's house or drydock.

The menagerie and the ship were maintained by the old guy, his wife, his sons and their wives for over a month and a half -- a team of eight people without a day of zoological, nautical or shipbuilding experience between them, living in a time when four of them could not even get any such experience in the first place.


And some people believe that a pile of used lumber on top of a mountain in Turkey is all the evidence they need to prove that this is all true (but nobody's allowed to check the lumber to see how old it is or even verify that there is a ship's keel and/or hull on top of the mountain); and somehow, the unverifiable existence of this lumber is proof that the theory of evolution by natural selection is wrong, that Christianity is the "correct" religion and that the universe and earth are 6,000 years old and not billions or dozens of billions of years old.
2013-06-28 03:35:59 PM  
3 votes:

Tom_Slick: Kali-Yuga:
Read this please


The part where the author states that "god is not found as the conclusion of a rational process", because religious faith is inherently irrational?

Or the part where the author assumes a prioriany god exists, allows his confirmation bias to believe this god is his particular version of the christian god, and then tries to make his religious delusion fit with the facts of evolution and the big bang?

Or the part where every process he talks about can be explained without the need for supernatural nonsense?
2013-06-28 02:33:29 PM  
3 votes:
Thank goodness I wasn't ever exposed to this kind of organized ignorance in the classroom.

Oh, you bet twelve-year old me would have been kicked out of the "Creation Museum" or been bodily dragged yelling and screaming to the principal's office had someone started talking that kind of foolishness in a classroom. This has been wildly inappropriate in schools for the last century, at least.

macromeme.com
2013-06-28 02:25:57 PM  
3 votes:

DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.



Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.
2013-06-28 02:01:10 PM  
3 votes:
You'd think that they would have mentioned dinosaurs somewhere in the Bible.

i4.ytimg.com
2013-06-28 02:56:04 PM  
2 votes:
My rage is spent on this topic.  Now it just profound sadness that we are still teaching our children lies so a few stuffy old men can continue to bilk their congregations out of millions.

Here a pic that makes me feel better.

i457.photobucket.com
2013-06-28 02:27:22 PM  
2 votes:
If hell is a real place, it's littered with creationist museums and Satan is having a tea with Jerry Falwell.
2013-06-28 02:19:28 PM  
2 votes:
I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.  Is it really that hard to accept the stories of Creation as a "rough guess" kind of thing?  The important thing to believe, if you're in to a religion, is that there is a cognitive force and reason behind existence.  The idea that we're simply able to explore more of our existence than they had 4000 years ago should not be something to be rejected.  Using the abilities that were imbued to you by the thing that created you, again if you're in to that, to discover more about the world in which you were placed should bolster your faith not retard it.
I do know that there are some pretty set-in-stone rules about bearing false witness that is a big no-no by the big guy.
I think the best thing that could happen to fundamentalist is a reading comprehension and literary theory class.  Not all stories are literal.
2013-06-28 02:16:45 PM  
2 votes:

amazing_live_seamonkeys: I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.


You may be tired of hearing about it but its still a real problem if this sort of nonsense is being taught in schools. Trying to pass this stuff as a legitimate education is offensive
2013-06-28 02:09:34 PM  
2 votes:

sandbar67: You'd think that they would have mentioned dinosaurs somewhere in the Bible.

[i4.ytimg.com image 480x360]


Nah, too busy with four-faced fire-sword wielding angels and chariots of fire and heavenly choruses and sticks eating each other and rivers gushing out of boulders and turning water into blood and people communing with spirits and talking donkeys (as opposed to religious folks these days simply talking out of their asses) and 40-day fasts in the desert and causing trees to wither with the power of thought and purpose-built man-eating fish and horns of holy light emanating from prophets' heads.

My point is that the Bible is very clearly not a scientific work, so we can safely disregard even the things it got right.

// and taxonomically, the Bible lumps shellfish (bivalves, mollusks, crustaceans, etc) in with "fish", and lizards/snakes with cows ("land animals")
2013-06-28 02:09:18 PM  
2 votes:
God's Gospel Lizards is my new band name.
2013-06-28 06:19:47 PM  
1 votes:
And it felt good to de-friend her after that.
2013-06-28 06:14:20 PM  
1 votes:

LordJiro: If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.


I am special. My mother told me so. Why is it no enough to be special to your friends and family? Why do they need to be special to the universe? What level of egotism demands that the universe loves them?
2013-06-28 06:14:10 PM  
1 votes:

StaleCoffee: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

The argument has been thrown both ways but the problem is really with the idea that people pick and choose the hate items they want and conveniently ignore the rest. Chowing down on a Family Values Meal Bacon Platter at Chick Fil A is just jesused enough to not go to hell or something.


Not to mention that the worst of the bible-thumping fundies are all the time pointing to things in the Old Testament to justify their psychotic prejudices. I haven't been there, but I imagine there is very little New Testament in the Creationist Museum. And I posted this a few days ago in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

From Republican Gov. John Kasich, to the Republican House Speaker blocking expansion of Medicaid in Ohio:  "I said, 'I respect the fact that you believe in small government. I do, too. I also know that you're a person of faith. Now, when you die and get to the meeting with St. Peter, he's probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor. You better have a good answer.' "
2013-06-28 05:26:54 PM  
1 votes:

Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.


If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.
2013-06-28 05:16:56 PM  
1 votes:

Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?


See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.
2013-06-28 04:59:34 PM  
1 votes:

DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.  Is it really that hard to accept the stories of Creation as a "rough guess" kind of thing?  The important thing to believe, if you're in to a religion, is that there is a cognitive force and reason behind existence.  The idea that we're simply able to explore more of our existence than they had 4000 years ago should not be something to be rejected.  Using the abilities that were imbued to you by the thing that created you, again if you're in to that, to discover more about the world in which you were placed should bolster your faith not retard it.
I do know that there are some pretty set-in-stone rules about bearing false witness that is a big no-no by the big guy.
I think the best thing that could happen to fundamentalist is a reading comprehension and literary theory class.  Not all stories are literal.


I was raised Christian, I've been an atheist for about 1/2 a dozen years now.  Even when I was a believer I always thought of the bibles creation account as an allegory.  Bringing this up in a bible study class and being shouted down is one of the events that led me to atheism.

Another incident was when I revealed I wouldn't be voting for W in '04 I was told point blank that if you didn't vote for W you couldn't possible be a christian.  I decided that asshole was right.
2013-06-28 04:57:42 PM  
1 votes:

DubtodaIll: Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?


Everyone at my friend's hindu temple seem happy and successful, why not emulate them?
2013-06-28 04:14:04 PM  
1 votes:

rustypouch: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV


Yeah I've read it cover to cover.  I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years.  I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong.  But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant.  It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.  Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God.    Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.
2013-06-28 04:07:25 PM  
1 votes:
I Ate Shergar:

Or "being human", as it's more commonly known. Anyone who thinks they don't hold any irrational beliefs is clearly insane.

No, but by being aware of our cognitive biases, the effect of heuristics, and what logical fallacies are, intelligent people can make a concerted effort to behave rationally.

Or you can just stay at the level of cognitive development typical of a 4 to 7 year old and allow wish-fulfillment to sustain the illusion that the fantasy world described by religious texts is real.
2013-06-28 04:02:38 PM  
1 votes:

DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."


Because the basic gist of it isn't "treat everyone fairly and don't give into your base desires." It's far more complicated than that and a HUGE part of it is a god exists, has chosen people to reward and people to torture, that this god commits genocide against peoples he doesn't approve of and if you don't do exactly what he says off to hell with you.

Just like any general book of philosophy you can cherry pick the good parts if you want but overall it lacks coherence, cohesiveness and literal truth.
2013-06-28 03:07:18 PM  
1 votes:

Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.


Well that's not a very Christian thing to say*

*in theory
2013-06-28 03:04:08 PM  
1 votes:

Kali-Yuga: Vodka Zombie:

You do realize that you don't have to be an atheist to do real science or find creationism ridiculous, right?

But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs, and have to compartmentalize your religious beliefs so the critical thinking skills you use to do "real science" don't ever get applied to your religious delusions.


Which isn't that hard for an adult.
2013-06-28 03:01:25 PM  
1 votes:
Vodka Zombie:

You do realize that you don't have to be an atheist to do real science or find creationism ridiculous, right?

But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs, and have to compartmentalize your religious beliefs so the critical thinking skills you use to do "real science" don't ever get applied to your religious delusions.
2013-06-28 02:50:25 PM  
1 votes:
I've heard that wind and currents can sort left shoes from right shoes but I am amazed that the Great Flood managed to sort alternating layers of seashells and volcanic ash in such a way that new species, barely distinguishable from the species of the next lower layer, are grouped in a sort of strobe-light history of evolution.

How does a Great Flood deposit air-born and air-borne ash and pumice in smooth horizontal layers at all, often complete with appropriate bones and footprints, seeing as they both float on water? And how did the Great Flood sort out all the fossils, regardless of the laws of physics, by habitat and genus and species rather than by size, weight, shape or other factors which determine how they would settle out of water?

And then there's the question of water:  manifestly, not all things survive immersion in water, so how come we have fossils of those things if they were laid down by the Great Flood?

How many Great Floods were there, by the way? The fossel record consists of innumerable strata, many of which clearly had nothing to do with floods, such as fossil deserts and fossil forest floors.

And what about animal tracks? In fossil deserts we have the tracks of side-winding snakes; in fossil forests, the tracks of animals walking through mud; in fossil coral reefs, the marks made by fish and crabs on the seafloor. How did roiling muddy flood waters create or preserve all of these? Every species in its proper habitat except, of course those that were washed away by floods or rivers and deposited in the fossil mudbanks and sandbanks and fossil continental shelf slope?

My, oh my, the Flood Theory raises so many unanswered and unanswerable objections and questions. I have half a mind to abandon it for obvious facts and incontrovertible logic.
2013-06-28 02:42:43 PM  
1 votes:

kid_icarus: DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."

Fundamentalists believe the book is literally divine. It was written by God himself and they quote scripture the way a wizard would say an incantation. (pointing out that actual mortal men authored the various books will only get you a response of, "God  inspired their writing so it was actually God writing it".) They believe it's a history book and much, much more. They believe that taking each verse as anything less than absolutely literal is akin to blasphemy.


Man, it's like they're stupid or something.
2013-06-28 02:41:59 PM  
1 votes:

DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."


Fundamentalists believe the book is literally divine. It was written by God himself and they quote scripture the way a wizard would say an incantation. (pointing out that actual mortal men authored the various books will only get you a response of, "God  inspired their writing so it was actually God writing it".) They believe it's a history book and much, much more. They believe that taking each verse as anything less than absolutely literal is akin to blasphemy.
2013-06-28 02:35:02 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: If hell is a real place, it's littered with creationist museums and Satan is having a tea with Jerry Falwell.


There was a quote in one of yesterday's threads that stuck with me; If I owned hell and Texas I would rent Texas out and live in hell
2013-06-28 02:34:03 PM  
1 votes:

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.


I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."
2013-06-28 02:32:42 PM  
1 votes:

durbnpoisn: starting to make me a little sick


For real.  My stomach gets queazy from reading shiat like this.  Maybe it's some anger-turned-inward effect; though I strongly suspect that my anger turned outward would most likely mean jail time.
2013-06-28 02:23:03 PM  
1 votes:
I am a firm believer in the literal interpretation of the Bible.  Particularly where it pertains to the following:

fc05.deviantart.net
fc02.deviantart.net
th07.deviantart.net

fc00.deviantart.net
www.demotivationalposters.org
2013-06-28 02:19:30 PM  
1 votes:
Theotards.
2013-06-28 02:08:32 PM  
1 votes:
The Earth is billions of years old.  This is demonstrate by a few differ...
Were you there?
Yes
Nuh uh
Sure was.  Were you there to see I wasn't?
I am a babbling moron who actually believes creationist bullshiat, invented by the poster help establish how incredibly stupid my damned argument is.
2013-06-28 02:07:59 PM  
1 votes:
I salute the author's writing on that, and bringing this all to attention.  But I couldn't bring myself to read the whole thing.  This is only because the amount of stupidity being told of there was starting to make me a little sick.

If anyone ever sat next to me on a park bench and started spouting that sort of nonsense, I would just have to simply tell them to fark off, and walk away.
 
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