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(ACLU)   Time for this year's Creationism Follies, where your great-grandpa had a pet dinosaur and all fossils came from the Great Flood   (aclu.org) divider line 130
    More: Unlikely, Creationism Follies, apologetics, Creation Museum, certified teacher, community schools, school year, private schools  
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6517 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jun 2013 at 1:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-28 03:35:59 PM

Tom_Slick: Kali-Yuga:
Read this please


The part where the author states that "god is not found as the conclusion of a rational process", because religious faith is inherently irrational?

Or the part where the author assumes a prioriany god exists, allows his confirmation bias to believe this god is his particular version of the christian god, and then tries to make his religious delusion fit with the facts of evolution and the big bang?

Or the part where every process he talks about can be explained without the need for supernatural nonsense?
 
2013-06-28 03:38:39 PM

Charlie Chingas: Sigh...


Sarcasm needs to go over the top when dealing with religion & politics.

Otherwise it could be said with total sincerity by someone.
 
2013-06-28 03:40:23 PM

tblax: amazing_live_seamonkeys: I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.

You may be tired of hearing about it but its still a real problem if this sort of nonsense is being taught in schools. Trying to pass this stuff as a legitimate education is offensive


Meanwhile in Britain, the Conservative administration has found a cheap alternative to expensive science education... www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou
 
2013-06-28 03:40:28 PM

amazing_live_seamonkeys: I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.


Because the freakin' horse isn't dead! WTF have you been reading for the past two or three decades?
 
2013-06-28 03:41:50 PM
There is also the consideration that life feeds on life.  What did they feed the lions, tigers, and bears, oh my?
And that doesn't even take into consideration how big, dangerous, unpredictable, and toothy a lot of animals are.

Also, to put some science into perspective...  If every bit of rain in every cloud in the world all fell at once, evenly everywhere, it would only raise the sea levels by like 3".  Only about .05% of the water in the world exists in a freshwater form.  And most of that is locked up in glaciers and ice sheets.  A couple of 1000 years ago, when the Noarkian flood was supposed to have taken place, the situation was no different.

So, unless there was a HELLUVA lot more freshwater created for that event, then magically dissappeared from the planet afterward, I don't see how that story makes any sense at all.
 
2013-06-28 03:46:59 PM

tblax: THIS REALLY HONKS ME OFF: Nobody ever gets this right. It's not 2 of every creature it's:
"Of every clean beast you shall take to you by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Genesis 7:2

So take your original calculations and START MULTIPLYING!

Still doesn't make it true...

I don't think that was the point


Thanks for getting that. I'm saying: take the absurdity and then multiply the absurdity so it's absurdity times seven.
 
2013-06-28 03:52:01 PM

DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.


Ha.

i.imgbox.com
 
2013-06-28 03:52:59 PM

Kali-Yuga: But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs


Or "being human", as it's more commonly known. Anyone who thinks they don't hold any irrational beliefs is clearly insane.
 
2013-06-28 03:53:00 PM

durbnpoisn: So, unless there was a HELLUVA lot more freshwater created for that event, then magically dissappeared from the planet afterward, I don't see how that story makes any sense at all.


Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?
 
2013-06-28 03:53:45 PM

durbnpoisn: There is also the consideration that life feeds on life.  What did they feed the lions, tigers, and bears, oh my?
And that doesn't even take into consideration how big, dangerous, unpredictable, and toothy a lot of animals are.

Also, to put some science into perspective...  If every bit of rain in every cloud in the world all fell at once, evenly everywhere, it would only raise the sea levels by like 3".  Only about .05% of the water in the world exists in a freshwater form.  And most of that is locked up in glaciers and ice sheets.  A couple of 1000 years ago, when the Noarkian flood was supposed to have taken place, the situation was no different.

So, unless there was a HELLUVA lot more freshwater created for that event, then magically dissappeared from the planet afterward, I don't see how that story makes any sense at all.


It doesn't. Given how many cultures have essentially the same legend, it's likely referring to an earthquake that opened up the Black Sea to the Mediterranean, flooding many settlements along the former.
 
2013-06-28 03:54:01 PM

Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]


That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.
 
2013-06-28 04:02:25 PM
Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?
 
2013-06-28 04:02:38 PM

DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."


Because the basic gist of it isn't "treat everyone fairly and don't give into your base desires." It's far more complicated than that and a HUGE part of it is a god exists, has chosen people to reward and people to torture, that this god commits genocide against peoples he doesn't approve of and if you don't do exactly what he says off to hell with you.

Just like any general book of philosophy you can cherry pick the good parts if you want but overall it lacks coherence, cohesiveness and literal truth.
 
2013-06-28 04:05:00 PM

DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.


Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV
 
2013-06-28 04:07:25 PM
I Ate Shergar:

Or "being human", as it's more commonly known. Anyone who thinks they don't hold any irrational beliefs is clearly insane.

No, but by being aware of our cognitive biases, the effect of heuristics, and what logical fallacies are, intelligent people can make a concerted effort to behave rationally.

Or you can just stay at the level of cognitive development typical of a 4 to 7 year old and allow wish-fulfillment to sustain the illusion that the fantasy world described by religious texts is real.
 
2013-06-28 04:08:27 PM

DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."

Matthew 5:17
 
2013-06-28 04:12:01 PM

DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.


The argument has been thrown both ways but the problem is really with the idea that people pick and choose the hate items they want and conveniently ignore the rest. Chowing down on a Family Values Meal Bacon Platter at Chick Fil A is just jesused enough to not go to hell or something.
 
2013-06-28 04:14:04 PM

rustypouch: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV


Yeah I've read it cover to cover.  I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years.  I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong.  But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant.  It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.  Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God.    Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.
 
2013-06-28 04:18:03 PM

Mock26: Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?


My favorite example is the koala.  Not only is there no land route from Mt. Ararat to Australia (and koalas are not good swimmers), they subsist almost entirely on eucalyptus leaves.  There would have to have been a continuous distribution of eucalyptus from the Middle East to Australia, all of which vanished without leaving a single fossil as soon as the koalas made it to Australia.

Only a fool would think the story of Noah's flood was an accurate historical account.
 
2013-06-28 04:18:37 PM

Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]


You forgot condones the killing of disobedient children, selling your daughter into slavery, and death for working on the sabbath.
 
2013-06-28 04:25:09 PM

DubtodaIll: Yeah I've read it cover to cover. I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years. I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong. But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant. It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament. Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God. Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.


I've always wondered this:  why would God, an all powerful, all knowing being, require something to die in order for him to take action?  Why would this have to be his son, aka him reborn?  It's very odd to have a being that seemingly requires a certain amount of the destruction of his own creation in order to act.

It's almost like mankind gets stuff out of him by proving they can break his shiat if they want to, even his own son.  It's sort of like extortion in a way.
 
2013-06-28 04:27:22 PM

DubtodaIll: rustypouch: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV

Yeah I've read it cover to cover.  I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years.  I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong.  But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant.  It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.  Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God.    Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.


So the people who taught it to you hadn't read the source material, and you didn't question.
 
2013-06-28 04:28:45 PM
Get bent, fundamentalists.  The bible is a story book, full of good lessons and insight, but it not something to be taken literally, not at farkin' all you fecking morons.  I am grateful to not have any direct contact with fundamentalists, for I live in the 21rst century and there is no place for such foolishness here.
 
2013-06-28 04:30:21 PM

Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Yeah I've read it cover to cover. I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years. I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong. But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant. It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament. Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God. Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.

I've always wondered this:  why would God, an all powerful, all knowing being, require something to die in order for him to take action?  Why would this have to be his son, aka him reborn?  It's very odd to have a being that seemingly requires a certain amount of the destruction of his own creation in order to act.

It's almost like mankind gets stuff out of him by proving they can break his shiat if they want to, even his own son.  It's sort of like extortion in a way.


It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able because of his blood sacrifice vs grain sacrifice.  All sacrifices from there to Jesus were temporary and needed to be repeated.  The Blood Sacrifice of Jesus, the spilling of the Blood of God, brought about permanent salvation without need for repetition.  Blood is something everyone understands at a visceral level.
 
2013-06-28 04:32:11 PM

rustypouch: DubtodaIll: rustypouch: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV

Yeah I've read it cover to cover.  I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years.  I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong.  But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant.  It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.  Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God.    Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.

So the people who taught it to you hadn't read the source material, and you didn't question.


Well they had, at least I assumed they had.  And of course I questioned them though it did seem like a perfectly good system and structure for a perfectly good life should you choose to follow it.  Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?
 
2013-06-28 04:33:43 PM
"Were you there?" is such a stupid, disingenuous question to teach children ask.  How the hell is it not supposed to backfire?

"So, millions of years ago, when there were dinosaurs..."
"Scuse me, were you there?  The Earth is only six thousand years old, created by God."
"...were YOU there when that supposedly happened?"

I would tell them to ask the more honest question of "how do you know that?" but Creationists are not known for their honesty.
 
2013-06-28 04:34:41 PM
DubtodaIll:

It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able

You will probably want to re-read that part.
 
2013-06-28 04:35:16 PM

DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Yeah I've read it cover to cover. I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years. I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong. But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant. It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament. Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God. Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.

I've always wondered this:  why would God, an all powerful, all knowing being, require something to die in order for him to take action?  Why would this have to be his son, aka him reborn?  It's very odd to have a being that seemingly requires a certain amount of the destruction of his own creation in order to act.

It's almost like mankind gets stuff out of him by proving they can break his shiat if they want to, even his own son.  It's sort of like extortion in a way.

It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able because of his blood sacrifice vs grain sacrifice.  All sacrifices from there to Jesus were temporary and needed to be repeated.  The Blood Sacrifice of Jesus, the spilling of the Blood of God, brought about permanent salvation without need for repetition.  Blood is something everyone understands at a visceral level.


That's even worse though.  What sort of being would want or desire such a thing?  Blood implies pain and death to some creature of his, I don't understand why he'd want that.

Unless the christian god is Khrone or something that is.

But if you look at it empirically, this all sounds very, well, evil.  "You want my blessing?  Better kill something for me, despite me making it.  Oh you want salvation?  Nothing less then murdering a demi-god would do."
 
2013-06-28 04:36:00 PM

Gergesa: I am a firm believer in the literal interpretation of the Bible.  Particularly where it pertains to the following:

[fc05.deviantart.net image 750x600]
[fc02.deviantart.net image 850x564]
[th07.deviantart.net image 770x1038]

[fc00.deviantart.net image 850x1274]
[www.demotivationalposters.org image 640x617]


I'm sorry, but the topic of this thread escapes me. Also, I seem to have just ordered something on Amazon but have no memory of it. Strange...
 
2013-06-28 04:43:37 PM
Ah, nothing like following a religious thread on Fark while Creed plays through my computer's speakers...

/bleah
 
2013-06-28 04:45:28 PM

Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: 
That's even worse though.  What sort of being would want or desire such a thing?  Blood implies pain and death to some creature of his, I don't understand why he'd want that.

Unless the christian god is Khrone or something that is.

But if you look at it empirically, this all sounds very, well, evil.  "You want my blessing?  Better kill something for me, despite me making it.  Oh ...


Best I can figure is that Salvation requires Sacrifice.  The best sacrifice apparently is Blood.  Just like in order for planets to form you have to have some stars blow up or something.  It's all very complicated, but I can continue to explain and answer your questions for 10% of your income a year.
 
2013-06-28 04:46:27 PM

FloydA: DubtodaIll:

It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able

You will probably want to re-read that part.


Yeah I saw that after I posted.  It's all about the favor God showed to Gable over Zane.
 
2013-06-28 04:47:51 PM
DubtodaIll:  Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Because for one, some people care if what they believe is actually true.

And because your anecdotal evidence doesn't match with the reality that the least religious countries in the world are the ones with the highest levels of self-reported happiness and standards of living, and even in this country, the most religious states have the lowest levels of self-reported happiness.

Because using religion to cope with harsh realities of the universe is like using alcohol or drugs to do the same thing instead of dealing with the underlying issues.
 
2013-06-28 04:51:04 PM

DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: 
That's even worse though.  What sort of being would want or desire such a thing?  Blood implies pain and death to some creature of his, I don't understand why he'd want that.

Unless the christian god is Khrone or something that is.

But if you look at it empirically, this all sounds very, well, evil.  "You want my blessing?  Better kill something for me, despite me making it.  Oh ...

Best I can figure is that Salvation requires Sacrifice.  The best sacrifice apparently is Blood.  Just like in order for planets to form you have to have some stars blow up or something.  It's all very complicated, but I can continue to explain and answer your questions for 10% of your income a year.


I think it's just a hold over form stone age thoughts myself.  It doesn't make any logical sense, you're just suppose to accept it's necessity and never question it.
 
2013-06-28 04:51:50 PM

monoski: hardinparamedic: If hell is a real place, it's littered with creationist museums and Satan is having a tea with Jerry Falwell.

There was a quote in one of yesterday's threads that stuck with me; If I owned hell and Texas I would rent Texas out and live in hell


Texas, it's not hell but you can see it from there.
 
2013-06-28 04:52:15 PM

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll:  Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Because for one, some people care if what they believe is actually true.

And because your anecdotal evidence doesn't match with the reality that the least religious countries in the world are the ones with the highest levels of self-reported happiness and standards of living, and even in this country, the most religious states have the lowest levels of self-reported happiness.

Because using religion to cope with harsh realities of the universe is like using alcohol or drugs to do the same thing instead of dealing with the underlying issues.


Hey man, it's like Friday and stuff.  You've obviously had a lot of struggle with your beliefs and what to put your Faith in and that's pretty damn normal.  The further down that philosophcial rabbit hole you go the more you realize that there's no way to prove anything with 100% certainly so that's always a mind-fark.  And I've never used religion to cope with the harsh realities of life, I've found that hard work has fixed most of the problems I've faced, outpacing the competition and stuff like that.  CSB, just nailed a 100k+ contract today, BOO-YAH THANK YAH JESUS.
 
2013-06-28 04:53:54 PM

FloydA: Mock26: Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?

My favorite example is the koala.  Not only is there no land route from Mt. Ararat to Australia (and koalas are not good swimmers), they subsist almost entirely on eucalyptus leaves.  There would have to have been a continuous distribution of eucalyptus from the Middle East to Australia, all of which vanished without leaving a single fossil as soon as the koalas made it to Australia.

Only a fool would think the story of Noah's flood was an accurate historical account.


I wonder what all the carnivores ate for 40 days and 40 nights!
 
2013-06-28 04:57:42 PM

DubtodaIll: Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?


Everyone at my friend's hindu temple seem happy and successful, why not emulate them?
 
2013-06-28 04:59:34 PM

DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.  Is it really that hard to accept the stories of Creation as a "rough guess" kind of thing?  The important thing to believe, if you're in to a religion, is that there is a cognitive force and reason behind existence.  The idea that we're simply able to explore more of our existence than they had 4000 years ago should not be something to be rejected.  Using the abilities that were imbued to you by the thing that created you, again if you're in to that, to discover more about the world in which you were placed should bolster your faith not retard it.
I do know that there are some pretty set-in-stone rules about bearing false witness that is a big no-no by the big guy.
I think the best thing that could happen to fundamentalist is a reading comprehension and literary theory class.  Not all stories are literal.


I was raised Christian, I've been an atheist for about 1/2 a dozen years now.  Even when I was a believer I always thought of the bibles creation account as an allegory.  Bringing this up in a bible study class and being shouted down is one of the events that led me to atheism.

Another incident was when I revealed I wouldn't be voting for W in '04 I was told point blank that if you didn't vote for W you couldn't possible be a christian.  I decided that asshole was right.
 
2013-06-28 05:02:42 PM

fat boy: God's Gospel Lizards is my new band name


"I am the lizard king of kings, I can do anything"
 
2013-06-28 05:06:44 PM

Mock26: DubtodaIll: Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Everyone at my friend's hindu temple seem happy and successful, why not emulate them?


I can't think of a reason not to. However you get to happiness is your choice.
 
2013-06-28 05:07:11 PM

DubtodaIll: You've obviously had a lot of struggle with your beliefs and what to put your Faith in and that's pretty damn normal.


Nice strawman, but I was lucky enough to avoid the indoctrination most children have inflicted upon them by their parents. I have no problem with faith, because faith is just a way to believe what you know isn't true.

I am truly sorry your parents lied to you in your formative years causing your world view to be based on faith rather than reality. Any eight year old that hasn't been indoctrinated is capable of seeing just what nonsense religion is, and it truly is sad to me that so many people will never rise above such an infantile worldview.

If you are somehow able to rationalize the bigotry, misogyny, genocide, tribalism and overall divisiveness religion causes on a global scale, then keep on drinkin the jesus juice I guess.
 
2013-06-28 05:10:34 PM

Mock26: DubtodaIll: Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Everyone at my friend's hindu temple seem happy and successful, why not emulate them?


Everyone at the pub last night seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?
 
2013-06-28 05:14:02 PM
Which pub is this where everyone is happy and successful, I'm interested.
 
2013-06-28 05:16:56 PM

Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?


See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.
 
2013-06-28 05:18:05 PM

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: You've obviously had a lot of struggle with your beliefs and what to put your Faith in and that's pretty damn normal.

Nice strawman, but I was lucky enough to avoid the indoctrination most children have inflicted upon them by their parents. I have no problem with faith, because faith is just a way to believe what you know isn't true.

I am truly sorry your parents lied to you in your formative years causing your world view to be based on faith rather than reality. Any eight year old that hasn't been indoctrinated is capable of seeing just what nonsense religion is, and it truly is sad to me that so many people will never rise above such an infantile worldview.

If you are somehow able to rationalize the bigotry, misogyny, genocide, tribalism and overall divisiveness religion causes on a global scale, then keep on drinkin the jesus juice I guess.


Slow down there Grumpy. There's plenty of bad things that happen with religion and plenty of bad things that happen without it. Don't be mad at me because I don't have the answers. And it's not a strawman, there's no way I've caused as much indignation in you just in this thread, you've got a bone to pick with the religious world in general and that's not my problem. Cheer up hombre! You're alive and the world hasn't blown up yet. Go getcha some!
 
2013-06-28 05:26:54 PM

Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.


If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.
 
2013-06-28 05:29:48 PM

Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.


Huh, never really thought of it that way.
 
2013-06-28 05:30:54 PM

LordJiro: Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.

If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.


What. "Here, I created this unfathomably enormous universe for your benefit" isn't conceited enough?
 
2013-06-28 05:37:27 PM

Syrrh: LordJiro: Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.

If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.

What. "Here, I created this unfathomably enormous universe for your benefit" isn't conceited enough?


Apparently not.
 
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