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(ACLU)   Time for this year's Creationism Follies, where your great-grandpa had a pet dinosaur and all fossils came from the Great Flood   (aclu.org ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Creationism Follies, apologetics, Creation Museum, certified teacher, community schools, school year, private schools  
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6546 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jun 2013 at 1:57 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



129 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-06-28 02:01:10 PM  
You'd think that they would have mentioned dinosaurs somewhere in the Bible.

i4.ytimg.com
 
2013-06-28 02:01:21 PM  

Time for this year's Creationism Follies


Sciencedammit, why isn't this on my calendar?

*pouts*
 
2013-06-28 02:02:11 PM  
Hitler lost WW2 / Were you there?!
 
2013-06-28 02:05:58 PM  

leonel: Hitler lost WW2 / Were you there?!


*snerk*

"God says we should burn witches!"
"Oh yeah? Were you there when he said it?"
"He wrote it in the Bible!!"
"Where you there when he WROTE IT?"
 
2013-06-28 02:07:59 PM  
I salute the author's writing on that, and bringing this all to attention.  But I couldn't bring myself to read the whole thing.  This is only because the amount of stupidity being told of there was starting to make me a little sick.

If anyone ever sat next to me on a park bench and started spouting that sort of nonsense, I would just have to simply tell them to fark off, and walk away.
 
2013-06-28 02:08:32 PM  
The Earth is billions of years old.  This is demonstrate by a few differ...
Were you there?
Yes
Nuh uh
Sure was.  Were you there to see I wasn't?
I am a babbling moron who actually believes creationist bullshiat, invented by the poster help establish how incredibly stupid my damned argument is.
 
2013-06-28 02:09:18 PM  
God's Gospel Lizards is my new band name.
 
2013-06-28 02:09:34 PM  

sandbar67: You'd think that they would have mentioned dinosaurs somewhere in the Bible.

[i4.ytimg.com image 480x360]


Nah, too busy with four-faced fire-sword wielding angels and chariots of fire and heavenly choruses and sticks eating each other and rivers gushing out of boulders and turning water into blood and people communing with spirits and talking donkeys (as opposed to religious folks these days simply talking out of their asses) and 40-day fasts in the desert and causing trees to wither with the power of thought and purpose-built man-eating fish and horns of holy light emanating from prophets' heads.

My point is that the Bible is very clearly not a scientific work, so we can safely disregard even the things it got right.

// and taxonomically, the Bible lumps shellfish (bivalves, mollusks, crustaceans, etc) in with "fish", and lizards/snakes with cows ("land animals")
 
2013-06-28 02:11:19 PM  
I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.
 
2013-06-28 02:15:05 PM  
Were you there?

No but the pope says Dinosaurs are real, and Evolution is correct.

The Pope is not a true Christian.

/Don't know what the Pope believes but I know Jesuits teach Evolution.
 
2013-06-28 02:16:45 PM  

amazing_live_seamonkeys: I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.


You may be tired of hearing about it but its still a real problem if this sort of nonsense is being taught in schools. Trying to pass this stuff as a legitimate education is offensive
 
2013-06-28 02:17:26 PM  
This thread again?

images3.wikia.nocookie.net

/it's my birthday
//no time for this crap again
///peace, people
 
2013-06-28 02:19:28 PM  
I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.  Is it really that hard to accept the stories of Creation as a "rough guess" kind of thing?  The important thing to believe, if you're in to a religion, is that there is a cognitive force and reason behind existence.  The idea that we're simply able to explore more of our existence than they had 4000 years ago should not be something to be rejected.  Using the abilities that were imbued to you by the thing that created you, again if you're in to that, to discover more about the world in which you were placed should bolster your faith not retard it.
I do know that there are some pretty set-in-stone rules about bearing false witness that is a big no-no by the big guy.
I think the best thing that could happen to fundamentalist is a reading comprehension and literary theory class.  Not all stories are literal.
 
2013-06-28 02:19:30 PM  
Theotards.
 
2013-06-28 02:23:03 PM  
I am a firm believer in the literal interpretation of the Bible.  Particularly where it pertains to the following:

fc05.deviantart.net
fc02.deviantart.net
th07.deviantart.net

fc00.deviantart.net
www.demotivationalposters.org
 
2013-06-28 02:25:57 PM  

DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.



Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.
 
2013-06-28 02:27:22 PM  
If hell is a real place, it's littered with creationist museums and Satan is having a tea with Jerry Falwell.
 
2013-06-28 02:27:39 PM  
I miss you-know-who.
 
2013-06-28 02:29:04 PM  
6 inches of rain per minute, worldwide, over a period of forty days. Sea level increasing by an inch every ten seconds.

Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Those creatures were able to be herded onto the ship despite the general majority of them not living within walking distance of the old man's house or drydock.

The menagerie and the ship were maintained by the old guy, his wife, his sons and their wives for over a month and a half -- a team of eight people without a day of zoological, nautical or shipbuilding experience between them, living in a time when four of them could not even get any such experience in the first place.


And some people believe that a pile of used lumber on top of a mountain in Turkey is all the evidence they need to prove that this is all true (but nobody's allowed to check the lumber to see how old it is or even verify that there is a ship's keel and/or hull on top of the mountain); and somehow, the unverifiable existence of this lumber is proof that the theory of evolution by natural selection is wrong, that Christianity is the "correct" religion and that the universe and earth are 6,000 years old and not billions or dozens of billions of years old.
 
2013-06-28 02:32:42 PM  

durbnpoisn: starting to make me a little sick


For real.  My stomach gets queazy from reading shiat like this.  Maybe it's some anger-turned-inward effect; though I strongly suspect that my anger turned outward would most likely mean jail time.
 
2013-06-28 02:33:29 PM  
Thank goodness I wasn't ever exposed to this kind of organized ignorance in the classroom.

Oh, you bet twelve-year old me would have been kicked out of the "Creation Museum" or been bodily dragged yelling and screaming to the principal's office had someone started talking that kind of foolishness in a classroom. This has been wildly inappropriate in schools for the last century, at least.

macromeme.com
 
2013-06-28 02:34:03 PM  

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.


I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."
 
2013-06-28 02:35:02 PM  

hardinparamedic: If hell is a real place, it's littered with creationist museums and Satan is having a tea with Jerry Falwell.


There was a quote in one of yesterday's threads that stuck with me; If I owned hell and Texas I would rent Texas out and live in hell
 
2013-06-28 02:35:12 PM  

DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


They're all in.  They can't stop thinking that way now.  It would demonstrate proof of evolution.
 
2013-06-28 02:41:59 PM  

DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."


Fundamentalists believe the book is literally divine. It was written by God himself and they quote scripture the way a wizard would say an incantation. (pointing out that actual mortal men authored the various books will only get you a response of, "God  inspired their writing so it was actually God writing it".) They believe it's a history book and much, much more. They believe that taking each verse as anything less than absolutely literal is akin to blasphemy.
 
2013-06-28 02:42:21 PM  
Time for the roaches to have a turn.
 
2013-06-28 02:42:43 PM  

kid_icarus: DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."

Fundamentalists believe the book is literally divine. It was written by God himself and they quote scripture the way a wizard would say an incantation. (pointing out that actual mortal men authored the various books will only get you a response of, "God  inspired their writing so it was actually God writing it".) They believe it's a history book and much, much more. They believe that taking each verse as anything less than absolutely literal is akin to blasphemy.


Man, it's like they're stupid or something.
 
2013-06-28 02:43:54 PM  
DubtodaIll:
I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."

Because the bible makes truth claims, and claims to be a non-fiction book.  The absolute minimum threshold for truth is logical consistency, and the bible is full of paradoxes, contradictions and patently absurd impossibilities. If i were reading any other book that claims to be non-fiction and find it full of errors, yes, the entire book would be invalidated, or at least called into serious question.

Your statement alone is a prime example cherry picking the jesusy portions of the bible to back up your claim of "the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future."  and ignoring the portions that do indeed say "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."
 
2013-06-28 02:46:46 PM  

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll:
I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."

Because the bible makes truth claims, and claims to be a non-fiction book.  The absolute minimum threshold for truth is logical consistency, and the bible is full of paradoxes, contradictions and patently absurd impossibilities. If i were reading any other book that claims to be non-fiction and find it full of errors, yes, the entire book would be invalidated, or at least called into serious question.

Your statement alone is a prime example cherry picking the jesusy portions of the bible to back up your claim of "the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future."  and ignoring the portions that do indeed say "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."


I don't know if I've ever met an Atheistic Fundamentalist before.
 
2013-06-28 02:50:25 PM  
I've heard that wind and currents can sort left shoes from right shoes but I am amazed that the Great Flood managed to sort alternating layers of seashells and volcanic ash in such a way that new species, barely distinguishable from the species of the next lower layer, are grouped in a sort of strobe-light history of evolution.

How does a Great Flood deposit air-born and air-borne ash and pumice in smooth horizontal layers at all, often complete with appropriate bones and footprints, seeing as they both float on water? And how did the Great Flood sort out all the fossils, regardless of the laws of physics, by habitat and genus and species rather than by size, weight, shape or other factors which determine how they would settle out of water?

And then there's the question of water:  manifestly, not all things survive immersion in water, so how come we have fossils of those things if they were laid down by the Great Flood?

How many Great Floods were there, by the way? The fossel record consists of innumerable strata, many of which clearly had nothing to do with floods, such as fossil deserts and fossil forest floors.

And what about animal tracks? In fossil deserts we have the tracks of side-winding snakes; in fossil forests, the tracks of animals walking through mud; in fossil coral reefs, the marks made by fish and crabs on the seafloor. How did roiling muddy flood waters create or preserve all of these? Every species in its proper habitat except, of course those that were washed away by floods or rivers and deposited in the fossil mudbanks and sandbanks and fossil continental shelf slope?

My, oh my, the Flood Theory raises so many unanswered and unanswerable objections and questions. I have half a mind to abandon it for obvious facts and incontrovertible logic.
 
2013-06-28 02:53:54 PM  

brantgoose: I've heard that wind and currents can sort left shoes from right shoes but I am amazed that the Great Flood managed to sort alternating layers of seashells and volcanic ash in such a way that new species, barely distinguishable from the species of the next lower layer, are grouped in a sort of strobe-light history of evolution.

How does a Great Flood deposit air-born and air-borne ash and pumice in smooth horizontal layers at all, often complete with appropriate bones and footprints, seeing as they both float on water? And how did the Great Flood sort out all the fossils, regardless of the laws of physics, by habitat and genus and species rather than by size, weight, shape or other factors which determine how they would settle out of water?

And then there's the question of water:  manifestly, not all things survive immersion in water, so how come we have fossils of those things if they were laid down by the Great Flood?

How many Great Floods were there, by the way? The fossel record consists of innumerable strata, many of which clearly had nothing to do with floods, such as fossil deserts and fossil forest floors.

And what about animal tracks? In fossil deserts we have the tracks of side-winding snakes; in fossil forests, the tracks of animals walking through mud; in fossil coral reefs, the marks made by fish and crabs on the seafloor. How did roiling muddy flood waters create or preserve all of these? Every species in its proper habitat except, of course those that were washed away by floods or rivers and deposited in the fossil mudbanks and sandbanks and fossil continental shelf slope?

My, oh my, the Flood Theory raises so many unanswered and unanswerable objections and questions. I have half a mind to abandon it for obvious facts and incontrovertible logic.


Plants.

They never mention plans. Or crops. No mention of corn/maize, I don't know if rice was ever mentioned in the Christian Bible or the Torah.

Or insects, how many non-flying insects are there? Spiders? There are 34 THOUSAND differing species of spiders. The Ark would have been one giant floating Nope.
 
2013-06-28 02:54:36 PM  
You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.
 
2013-06-28 02:55:57 PM  

Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.


Screams of pleasure, maybe :D
 
2013-06-28 02:56:04 PM  
My rage is spent on this topic.  Now it just profound sadness that we are still teaching our children lies so a few stuffy old men can continue to bilk their congregations out of millions.

Here a pic that makes me feel better.

i457.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-28 02:57:38 PM  

amazing_live_seamonkeys: I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.


You do realize that you don't have to be an atheist to do real science or find creationism ridiculous, right?
 
2013-06-28 02:58:49 PM  

King Something: Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.


Two(one male, one female) of every unclean animal, 14 (seven male, seven female) of every clean.

They can't even get their own stories right.
 
2013-06-28 02:59:04 PM  

brantgoose: I have half a mind


When speaking of a great flood, I would think instead you'd have a notion.
 
2013-06-28 03:00:03 PM  

Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.


Dude...  I don't know how to break it to you, but...  well...  what you've stated above is considered blasphemy and unpardonable, and well..  I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I'll see you in hell, brother.

Don't blame me, man.  I didn't make the rules.
 
2013-06-28 03:01:25 PM  
Vodka Zombie:

You do realize that you don't have to be an atheist to do real science or find creationism ridiculous, right?

But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs, and have to compartmentalize your religious beliefs so the critical thinking skills you use to do "real science" don't ever get applied to your religious delusions.
 
2013-06-28 03:04:08 PM  

Kali-Yuga: Vodka Zombie:

You do realize that you don't have to be an atheist to do real science or find creationism ridiculous, right?

But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs, and have to compartmentalize your religious beliefs so the critical thinking skills you use to do "real science" don't ever get applied to your religious delusions.


Which isn't that hard for an adult.
 
2013-06-28 03:05:52 PM  

Kali-Yuga: Vodka Zombie:

You do realize that you don't have to be an atheist to do real science or find creationism ridiculous, right?

But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs, and have to compartmentalize your religious beliefs so the critical thinking skills you use to do "real science" don't ever get applied to your religious delusions.


Read this please
 
2013-06-28 03:06:47 PM  

meat0918: King Something: Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Two(one male, one female) of every unclean animal, 14 (seven male, seven female) of every clean.

They can't even get their own stories right.


And how...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CccaGaKOlSI

Vodka Zombie: Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.

Dude... I don't know how to break it to you, but... well... what you've stated above is considered blasphemy and unpardonable, and well.. I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I'll see you in hell, brother.

Don't blame me, man. I didn't make the rules.


But, but. Prayer will save me! And you! Let's pray together.

/don't mind the jar of Crisco...
 
2013-06-28 03:07:18 PM  

Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.


Well that's not a very Christian thing to say*

*in theory
 
2013-06-28 03:09:01 PM  
i105.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-28 03:11:20 PM  

tblax: Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.

Well that's not a very Christian thing to say*

*in theory

Sigh...

cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com
 
2013-06-28 03:13:51 PM  
Creationism is still a thing?
 
2013-06-28 03:16:18 PM  

King Something: 6 inches of rain per minute, worldwide, over a period of forty days. Sea level increasing by an inch every ten seconds.

Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Those creatures were able to be herded onto the ship despite the general majority of them not living within walking distance of the old man's house or drydock.

The menagerie and the ship were maintained by the old guy, his wife, his sons and their wives for over a month and a half -- a team of eight people without a day of zoological, nautical or shipbuilding experience between them, living in a time when four of them could not even get any such experience in the first place.


And some people believe that a pile of used lumber on top of a mountain in Turkey is all the evidence they need to prove that this is all true (but nobody's allowed to check the lumber to see how old it is or even verify that there is a ship's keel and/or hull on top of the mountain); and somehow, the unverifiable existence of this lumber is proof that the theory of evolution by natural selection is wrong, that Christianity is the "correct" religion and that the universe and earth are 6,000 years old and not billions or dozens of billions of years old.


THIS REALLY HONKS ME OFF: Nobody ever gets this right. It's not 2 of every creature it's:
"Of every clean beast you shall take to you by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Genesis 7:2

So take your original calculations and START MULTIPLYING!
 
2013-06-28 03:25:42 PM  

zetar: King Something: 6 inches of rain per minute, worldwide, over a period of forty days. Sea level increasing by an inch every ten seconds.

Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Those creatures were able to be herded onto the ship despite the general majority of them not living within walking distance of the old man's house or drydock.

The menagerie and the ship were maintained by the old guy, his wife, his sons and their wives for over a month and a half -- a team of eight people without a day of zoological, nautical or shipbuilding experience between them, living in a time when four of them could not even get any such experience in the first place.


And some people believe that a pile of used lumber on top of a mountain in Turkey is all the evidence they need to prove that this is all true (but nobody's allowed to check the lumber to see how old it is or even verify that there is a ship's keel and/or hull on top of the mountain); and somehow, the unverifiable existence of this lumber is proof that the theory of evolution by natural selection is wrong, that Christianity is the "correct" religion and that the universe and earth are 6,000 years old and not billions or dozens of billions of years old.

THIS REALLY HONKS ME OFF: Nobody ever gets this right. It's not 2 of every creature it's:
"Of every clean beast you shall take to you by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Genesis 7:2

So take your original calculations and START MULTIPLYING!


Still doesn't make it true...
 
2013-06-28 03:28:36 PM  

Charlie Chingas: zetar: King Something: 6 inches of rain per minute, worldwide, over a period of forty days. Sea level increasing by an inch every ten seconds.

Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Those creatures were able to be herded onto the ship despite the general majority of them not living within walking distance of the old man's house or drydock.

The menagerie and the ship were maintained by the old guy, his wife, his sons and their wives for over a month and a half -- a team of eight people without a day of zoological, nautical or shipbuilding experience between them, living in a time when four of them could not even get any such experience in the first place.


And some people believe that a pile of used lumber on top of a mountain in Turkey is all the evidence they need to prove that this is all true (but nobody's allowed to check the lumber to see how old it is or even verify that there is a ship's keel and/or hull on top of the mountain); and somehow, the unverifiable existence of this lumber is proof that the theory of evolution by natural selection is wrong, that Christianity is the "correct" religion and that the universe and earth are 6,000 years old and not billions or dozens of billions of years old.

THIS REALLY HONKS ME OFF: Nobody ever gets this right. It's not 2 of every creature it's:
"Of every clean beast you shall take to you by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Genesis 7:2

So take your original calculations and START MULTIPLYING!

Still doesn't make it true...


I don't think that was the point
 
2013-06-28 03:35:38 PM  
Aidan:
"He wrote it in the Bible!!"
"Where you there when he WROTE IT?"


Worth repeating any time someone tries to quote the bible for any kind of justification.
 
2013-06-28 03:35:59 PM  

Tom_Slick: Kali-Yuga:
Read this please


The part where the author states that "god is not found as the conclusion of a rational process", because religious faith is inherently irrational?

Or the part where the author assumes a prioriany god exists, allows his confirmation bias to believe this god is his particular version of the christian god, and then tries to make his religious delusion fit with the facts of evolution and the big bang?

Or the part where every process he talks about can be explained without the need for supernatural nonsense?
 
2013-06-28 03:38:39 PM  

Charlie Chingas: Sigh...


Sarcasm needs to go over the top when dealing with religion & politics.

Otherwise it could be said with total sincerity by someone.
 
2013-06-28 03:40:23 PM  

tblax: amazing_live_seamonkeys: I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.

You may be tired of hearing about it but its still a real problem if this sort of nonsense is being taught in schools. Trying to pass this stuff as a legitimate education is offensive


Meanwhile in Britain, the Conservative administration has found a cheap alternative to expensive science education... www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/lookaroundyou
 
2013-06-28 03:40:28 PM  

amazing_live_seamonkeys: I thought this masturbatory, atheist, dead-horse beating was what Reddit was for.


Because the freakin' horse isn't dead! WTF have you been reading for the past two or three decades?
 
2013-06-28 03:41:50 PM  
There is also the consideration that life feeds on life.  What did they feed the lions, tigers, and bears, oh my?
And that doesn't even take into consideration how big, dangerous, unpredictable, and toothy a lot of animals are.

Also, to put some science into perspective...  If every bit of rain in every cloud in the world all fell at once, evenly everywhere, it would only raise the sea levels by like 3".  Only about .05% of the water in the world exists in a freshwater form.  And most of that is locked up in glaciers and ice sheets.  A couple of 1000 years ago, when the Noarkian flood was supposed to have taken place, the situation was no different.

So, unless there was a HELLUVA lot more freshwater created for that event, then magically dissappeared from the planet afterward, I don't see how that story makes any sense at all.
 
2013-06-28 03:46:59 PM  

tblax: THIS REALLY HONKS ME OFF: Nobody ever gets this right. It's not 2 of every creature it's:
"Of every clean beast you shall take to you by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Genesis 7:2

So take your original calculations and START MULTIPLYING!

Still doesn't make it true...

I don't think that was the point


Thanks for getting that. I'm saying: take the absurdity and then multiply the absurdity so it's absurdity times seven.
 
2013-06-28 03:52:01 PM  

DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.


Ha.

i.imgbox.com
 
2013-06-28 03:52:59 PM  

Kali-Yuga: But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs


Or "being human", as it's more commonly known. Anyone who thinks they don't hold any irrational beliefs is clearly insane.
 
2013-06-28 03:53:00 PM  

durbnpoisn: So, unless there was a HELLUVA lot more freshwater created for that event, then magically dissappeared from the planet afterward, I don't see how that story makes any sense at all.


Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?
 
2013-06-28 03:53:45 PM  

durbnpoisn: There is also the consideration that life feeds on life.  What did they feed the lions, tigers, and bears, oh my?
And that doesn't even take into consideration how big, dangerous, unpredictable, and toothy a lot of animals are.

Also, to put some science into perspective...  If every bit of rain in every cloud in the world all fell at once, evenly everywhere, it would only raise the sea levels by like 3".  Only about .05% of the water in the world exists in a freshwater form.  And most of that is locked up in glaciers and ice sheets.  A couple of 1000 years ago, when the Noarkian flood was supposed to have taken place, the situation was no different.

So, unless there was a HELLUVA lot more freshwater created for that event, then magically dissappeared from the planet afterward, I don't see how that story makes any sense at all.


It doesn't. Given how many cultures have essentially the same legend, it's likely referring to an earthquake that opened up the Black Sea to the Mediterranean, flooding many settlements along the former.
 
2013-06-28 03:54:01 PM  

Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]


That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.
 
2013-06-28 04:02:25 PM  
Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?
 
2013-06-28 04:02:38 PM  

DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."


Because the basic gist of it isn't "treat everyone fairly and don't give into your base desires." It's far more complicated than that and a HUGE part of it is a god exists, has chosen people to reward and people to torture, that this god commits genocide against peoples he doesn't approve of and if you don't do exactly what he says off to hell with you.

Just like any general book of philosophy you can cherry pick the good parts if you want but overall it lacks coherence, cohesiveness and literal truth.
 
2013-06-28 04:05:00 PM  

DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.


Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV
 
2013-06-28 04:07:25 PM  
I Ate Shergar:

Or "being human", as it's more commonly known. Anyone who thinks they don't hold any irrational beliefs is clearly insane.

No, but by being aware of our cognitive biases, the effect of heuristics, and what logical fallacies are, intelligent people can make a concerted effort to behave rationally.

Or you can just stay at the level of cognitive development typical of a 4 to 7 year old and allow wish-fulfillment to sustain the illusion that the fantasy world described by religious texts is real.
 
2013-06-28 04:08:27 PM  

DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."

Matthew 5:17
 
2013-06-28 04:12:01 PM  

DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.


The argument has been thrown both ways but the problem is really with the idea that people pick and choose the hate items they want and conveniently ignore the rest. Chowing down on a Family Values Meal Bacon Platter at Chick Fil A is just jesused enough to not go to hell or something.
 
2013-06-28 04:14:04 PM  

rustypouch: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV


Yeah I've read it cover to cover.  I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years.  I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong.  But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant.  It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.  Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God.    Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.
 
2013-06-28 04:18:03 PM  

Mock26: Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?


My favorite example is the koala.  Not only is there no land route from Mt. Ararat to Australia (and koalas are not good swimmers), they subsist almost entirely on eucalyptus leaves.  There would have to have been a continuous distribution of eucalyptus from the Middle East to Australia, all of which vanished without leaving a single fossil as soon as the koalas made it to Australia.

Only a fool would think the story of Noah's flood was an accurate historical account.
 
2013-06-28 04:18:37 PM  

Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]


You forgot condones the killing of disobedient children, selling your daughter into slavery, and death for working on the sabbath.
 
2013-06-28 04:25:09 PM  

DubtodaIll: Yeah I've read it cover to cover. I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years. I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong. But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant. It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament. Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God. Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.


I've always wondered this:  why would God, an all powerful, all knowing being, require something to die in order for him to take action?  Why would this have to be his son, aka him reborn?  It's very odd to have a being that seemingly requires a certain amount of the destruction of his own creation in order to act.

It's almost like mankind gets stuff out of him by proving they can break his shiat if they want to, even his own son.  It's sort of like extortion in a way.
 
2013-06-28 04:27:22 PM  

DubtodaIll: rustypouch: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV

Yeah I've read it cover to cover.  I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years.  I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong.  But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant.  It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.  Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God.    Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.


So the people who taught it to you hadn't read the source material, and you didn't question.
 
2013-06-28 04:28:45 PM  
Get bent, fundamentalists.  The bible is a story book, full of good lessons and insight, but it not something to be taken literally, not at farkin' all you fecking morons.  I am grateful to not have any direct contact with fundamentalists, for I live in the 21rst century and there is no place for such foolishness here.
 
2013-06-28 04:30:21 PM  

Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Yeah I've read it cover to cover. I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years. I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong. But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant. It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament. Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God. Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.

I've always wondered this:  why would God, an all powerful, all knowing being, require something to die in order for him to take action?  Why would this have to be his son, aka him reborn?  It's very odd to have a being that seemingly requires a certain amount of the destruction of his own creation in order to act.

It's almost like mankind gets stuff out of him by proving they can break his shiat if they want to, even his own son.  It's sort of like extortion in a way.


It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able because of his blood sacrifice vs grain sacrifice.  All sacrifices from there to Jesus were temporary and needed to be repeated.  The Blood Sacrifice of Jesus, the spilling of the Blood of God, brought about permanent salvation without need for repetition.  Blood is something everyone understands at a visceral level.
 
2013-06-28 04:32:11 PM  

rustypouch: DubtodaIll: rustypouch: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

Questions: Why then do some parts of the Old Testament still count? Ten commandments (but only one of the versions) anti gay stuff, etc. Who decides which parts to follow, and which to ignore?

Have you read the Bible? Specifically Matthew 5:17?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=N IV

Yeah I've read it cover to cover.  I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years.  I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong.  But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant.  It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.  Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God.    Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.

So the people who taught it to you hadn't read the source material, and you didn't question.


Well they had, at least I assumed they had.  And of course I questioned them though it did seem like a perfectly good system and structure for a perfectly good life should you choose to follow it.  Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?
 
2013-06-28 04:33:43 PM  
"Were you there?" is such a stupid, disingenuous question to teach children ask.  How the hell is it not supposed to backfire?

"So, millions of years ago, when there were dinosaurs..."
"Scuse me, were you there?  The Earth is only six thousand years old, created by God."
"...were YOU there when that supposedly happened?"

I would tell them to ask the more honest question of "how do you know that?" but Creationists are not known for their honesty.
 
2013-06-28 04:34:41 PM  
DubtodaIll:

It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able

You will probably want to re-read that part.
 
2013-06-28 04:35:16 PM  

DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Yeah I've read it cover to cover. I'm not a practicing Christian, I've only been to Easter and Christmas the past 10 years. I'm not an expert, but I do think that literal fundamentalists are doing it wrong. But I thought the whole deal with the New Testament was with the God's sacrifice of his Son established a new covenant. It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament. Old Testament rules were all about sacrifice to achieve salvation. With the ultimate Sacrifice of the Son of God, salvation then only requires your belief in that sacrifice and your repentance of sin to the Son of God. Again, I'm not a practicing Christian or an expert, but that's what I was told during my formative years.

I've always wondered this:  why would God, an all powerful, all knowing being, require something to die in order for him to take action?  Why would this have to be his son, aka him reborn?  It's very odd to have a being that seemingly requires a certain amount of the destruction of his own creation in order to act.

It's almost like mankind gets stuff out of him by proving they can break his shiat if they want to, even his own son.  It's sort of like extortion in a way.

It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able because of his blood sacrifice vs grain sacrifice.  All sacrifices from there to Jesus were temporary and needed to be repeated.  The Blood Sacrifice of Jesus, the spilling of the Blood of God, brought about permanent salvation without need for repetition.  Blood is something everyone understands at a visceral level.


That's even worse though.  What sort of being would want or desire such a thing?  Blood implies pain and death to some creature of his, I don't understand why he'd want that.

Unless the christian god is Khrone or something that is.

But if you look at it empirically, this all sounds very, well, evil.  "You want my blessing?  Better kill something for me, despite me making it.  Oh you want salvation?  Nothing less then murdering a demi-god would do."
 
2013-06-28 04:36:00 PM  

Gergesa: I am a firm believer in the literal interpretation of the Bible.  Particularly where it pertains to the following:

[fc05.deviantart.net image 750x600]
[fc02.deviantart.net image 850x564]
[th07.deviantart.net image 770x1038]

[fc00.deviantart.net image 850x1274]
[www.demotivationalposters.org image 640x617]


I'm sorry, but the topic of this thread escapes me. Also, I seem to have just ordered something on Amazon but have no memory of it. Strange...
 
2013-06-28 04:43:37 PM  
Ah, nothing like following a religious thread on Fark while Creed plays through my computer's speakers...

/bleah
 
2013-06-28 04:45:28 PM  

Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: 
That's even worse though.  What sort of being would want or desire such a thing?  Blood implies pain and death to some creature of his, I don't understand why he'd want that.

Unless the christian god is Khrone or something that is.

But if you look at it empirically, this all sounds very, well, evil.  "You want my blessing?  Better kill something for me, despite me making it.  Oh ...


Best I can figure is that Salvation requires Sacrifice.  The best sacrifice apparently is Blood.  Just like in order for planets to form you have to have some stars blow up or something.  It's all very complicated, but I can continue to explain and answer your questions for 10% of your income a year.
 
2013-06-28 04:46:27 PM  

FloydA: DubtodaIll:

It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able

You will probably want to re-read that part.


Yeah I saw that after I posted.  It's all about the favor God showed to Gable over Zane.
 
2013-06-28 04:47:51 PM  
DubtodaIll:  Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Because for one, some people care if what they believe is actually true.

And because your anecdotal evidence doesn't match with the reality that the least religious countries in the world are the ones with the highest levels of self-reported happiness and standards of living, and even in this country, the most religious states have the lowest levels of self-reported happiness.

Because using religion to cope with harsh realities of the universe is like using alcohol or drugs to do the same thing instead of dealing with the underlying issues.
 
2013-06-28 04:51:04 PM  

DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: Antimatter: DubtodaIll: 
That's even worse though.  What sort of being would want or desire such a thing?  Blood implies pain and death to some creature of his, I don't understand why he'd want that.

Unless the christian god is Khrone or something that is.

But if you look at it empirically, this all sounds very, well, evil.  "You want my blessing?  Better kill something for me, despite me making it.  Oh ...

Best I can figure is that Salvation requires Sacrifice.  The best sacrifice apparently is Blood.  Just like in order for planets to form you have to have some stars blow up or something.  It's all very complicated, but I can continue to explain and answer your questions for 10% of your income a year.


I think it's just a hold over form stone age thoughts myself.  It doesn't make any logical sense, you're just suppose to accept it's necessity and never question it.
 
2013-06-28 04:51:50 PM  

monoski: hardinparamedic: If hell is a real place, it's littered with creationist museums and Satan is having a tea with Jerry Falwell.

There was a quote in one of yesterday's threads that stuck with me; If I owned hell and Texas I would rent Texas out and live in hell


Texas, it's not hell but you can see it from there.
 
2013-06-28 04:52:15 PM  

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll:  Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Because for one, some people care if what they believe is actually true.

And because your anecdotal evidence doesn't match with the reality that the least religious countries in the world are the ones with the highest levels of self-reported happiness and standards of living, and even in this country, the most religious states have the lowest levels of self-reported happiness.

Because using religion to cope with harsh realities of the universe is like using alcohol or drugs to do the same thing instead of dealing with the underlying issues.


Hey man, it's like Friday and stuff.  You've obviously had a lot of struggle with your beliefs and what to put your Faith in and that's pretty damn normal.  The further down that philosophcial rabbit hole you go the more you realize that there's no way to prove anything with 100% certainly so that's always a mind-fark.  And I've never used religion to cope with the harsh realities of life, I've found that hard work has fixed most of the problems I've faced, outpacing the competition and stuff like that.  CSB, just nailed a 100k+ contract today, BOO-YAH THANK YAH JESUS.
 
2013-06-28 04:53:54 PM  

FloydA: Mock26: Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?

My favorite example is the koala.  Not only is there no land route from Mt. Ararat to Australia (and koalas are not good swimmers), they subsist almost entirely on eucalyptus leaves.  There would have to have been a continuous distribution of eucalyptus from the Middle East to Australia, all of which vanished without leaving a single fossil as soon as the koalas made it to Australia.

Only a fool would think the story of Noah's flood was an accurate historical account.


I wonder what all the carnivores ate for 40 days and 40 nights!
 
2013-06-28 04:57:42 PM  

DubtodaIll: Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?


Everyone at my friend's hindu temple seem happy and successful, why not emulate them?
 
2013-06-28 04:59:34 PM  

DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.  Is it really that hard to accept the stories of Creation as a "rough guess" kind of thing?  The important thing to believe, if you're in to a religion, is that there is a cognitive force and reason behind existence.  The idea that we're simply able to explore more of our existence than they had 4000 years ago should not be something to be rejected.  Using the abilities that were imbued to you by the thing that created you, again if you're in to that, to discover more about the world in which you were placed should bolster your faith not retard it.
I do know that there are some pretty set-in-stone rules about bearing false witness that is a big no-no by the big guy.
I think the best thing that could happen to fundamentalist is a reading comprehension and literary theory class.  Not all stories are literal.


I was raised Christian, I've been an atheist for about 1/2 a dozen years now.  Even when I was a believer I always thought of the bibles creation account as an allegory.  Bringing this up in a bible study class and being shouted down is one of the events that led me to atheism.

Another incident was when I revealed I wouldn't be voting for W in '04 I was told point blank that if you didn't vote for W you couldn't possible be a christian.  I decided that asshole was right.
 
2013-06-28 05:02:42 PM  

fat boy: God's Gospel Lizards is my new band name

"I am the lizard king of kings, I can do anything"

 
2013-06-28 05:06:44 PM  

Mock26: DubtodaIll: Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Everyone at my friend's hindu temple seem happy and successful, why not emulate them?


I can't think of a reason not to. However you get to happiness is your choice.
 
2013-06-28 05:07:11 PM  

DubtodaIll: You've obviously had a lot of struggle with your beliefs and what to put your Faith in and that's pretty damn normal.


Nice strawman, but I was lucky enough to avoid the indoctrination most children have inflicted upon them by their parents. I have no problem with faith, because faith is just a way to believe what you know isn't true.

I am truly sorry your parents lied to you in your formative years causing your world view to be based on faith rather than reality. Any eight year old that hasn't been indoctrinated is capable of seeing just what nonsense religion is, and it truly is sad to me that so many people will never rise above such an infantile worldview.

If you are somehow able to rationalize the bigotry, misogyny, genocide, tribalism and overall divisiveness religion causes on a global scale, then keep on drinkin the jesus juice I guess.
 
2013-06-28 05:10:34 PM  

Mock26: DubtodaIll: Everyone at my church at least seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?

Everyone at my friend's hindu temple seem happy and successful, why not emulate them?


Everyone at the pub last night seemed happy and successful, why not emulate them?
 
2013-06-28 05:14:02 PM  
Which pub is this where everyone is happy and successful, I'm interested.
 
2013-06-28 05:16:56 PM  

Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?


See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.
 
2013-06-28 05:18:05 PM  

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: You've obviously had a lot of struggle with your beliefs and what to put your Faith in and that's pretty damn normal.

Nice strawman, but I was lucky enough to avoid the indoctrination most children have inflicted upon them by their parents. I have no problem with faith, because faith is just a way to believe what you know isn't true.

I am truly sorry your parents lied to you in your formative years causing your world view to be based on faith rather than reality. Any eight year old that hasn't been indoctrinated is capable of seeing just what nonsense religion is, and it truly is sad to me that so many people will never rise above such an infantile worldview.

If you are somehow able to rationalize the bigotry, misogyny, genocide, tribalism and overall divisiveness religion causes on a global scale, then keep on drinkin the jesus juice I guess.


Slow down there Grumpy. There's plenty of bad things that happen with religion and plenty of bad things that happen without it. Don't be mad at me because I don't have the answers. And it's not a strawman, there's no way I've caused as much indignation in you just in this thread, you've got a bone to pick with the religious world in general and that's not my problem. Cheer up hombre! You're alive and the world hasn't blown up yet. Go getcha some!
 
2013-06-28 05:26:54 PM  

Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.


If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.
 
2013-06-28 05:29:48 PM  

Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.


Huh, never really thought of it that way.
 
2013-06-28 05:30:54 PM  

LordJiro: Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.

If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.


What. "Here, I created this unfathomably enormous universe for your benefit" isn't conceited enough?
 
2013-06-28 05:37:27 PM  

Syrrh: LordJiro: Syrrh: Petit_Merdeux: Uhmmm, you do realize that you are dealing with a religion and its omnipotent god? Do you think facts are going to sway any opinions?

See, this is what REALLY bothers me about creationists. They act like it's too difficult for god to set the universe in motion so that it will automatically go through the desired motions with only minimal steering. Nope, he has to pause it and add clumsy patches a bunch of times. When supplied with a whole universe full of materials with properties that lend themselves well to self-ordering, he still has to cheat. Because he's omnipotent but also sorta incompetent?

I'm not christian, but I still think the creationists have an insulting lack of faith in their own skyman's capabilities. And an excessively high opinion of how much a backwoods dipshiat knows about the divine mechanisms of creation.

If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.

What. "Here, I created this unfathomably enormous universe for your benefit" isn't conceited enough?


Apparently not.
 
2013-06-28 05:43:04 PM  

Kali-Yuga: Vodka Zombie:

You do realize that you don't have to be an atheist to do real science or find creationism ridiculous, right?

But if you aren't, you get to deal with the cognitive dissonance of holding both irrational and rational beliefs, and have to compartmentalize your religious beliefs so the critical thinking skills you use to do "real science" don't ever get applied to your religious delusions.


No you don't. At least I don't.

It's just that you've decided I do, so you tell me I do to validate your own beliefs about the irrationality of religion.

However, I am entirely able to accept all tenets of science, and still believe there might be something greater than man. They're not as mutually exclusive as you seem to insist.
 
2013-06-28 05:44:21 PM  

DubtodaIll: Which pub is this where everyone is happy and successful, I'm interested.


It's my local so if I told you where it was, you'd know almost exactly where I live, and fark has rules prohibiting that.  Suffice it to say it is in Seattle.
 
2013-06-28 05:46:05 PM  
All of them pigfarker states.  Not really a surprise.

It's 2013.  How is it these fundamentalist shiatholes still exist in an allegedly first-world nation?
 
2013-06-28 05:47:18 PM  
DubtodaIll:Slow down there Grumpy. There's plenty of bad things that happen with religion and plenty of bad things that happen without it.

You're right, in a sense, but for otherwise good people to do bad things, that takes religion.

Answer me an honest question. In America are christians responsible for the vast majority of the bigotry, misogyny, and anti-intellectualism that occurs in the present day and has throughout history?

Is it christians or atheists that want to deny civil rights to an entire group of people based on their sexual orientation?
Is it christians or atheists that want to treat women like children who are incapable of making decisions in regards to their own bodies?
Is it christians or atheists that want fairy tales taught as science?
Is it christians or atheists that actively try to revise American history to match with their myths?
Is it christians or atheists that try to pass laws forcing their bronze age morality upon society?
 
2013-06-28 05:55:20 PM  
Mock26:  I wonder what all the carnivores ate for 40 days and 40 nights!

They didn't eat. In fact, nothing ate because nothing could survive. In order for it to rain enough to raise sea level ~5000 feet in 40 days, it would have to rain at a rate of 6 inches per hour for the entirety of those 40 days. That would saturate the atmosphere with so much moisture that all living creatures would suffocate/drown.
 
2013-06-28 05:56:45 PM  

Gyrfalcon: It's just that you've decided I do, so you tell me I do to validate your own beliefs about the irrationality of religion.


No, because all religious faith is by definition irrational, see Kierkegaard among others. It may seem rational prima facie, but upon any sort of honest reflection any sense or rationality quickly disappears. If people were willing or capable of applying critical thought to their religious delusions, they wouldn't be religious.
 
2013-06-28 05:58:41 PM  

kid_icarus: DubtodaIll: Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.

I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.  Use the capacity for reason that you were given to make wise and just decisions.   I don't see how that's not a more attractive and true doctrine than "do everything by the letter or you'll burn in hell for eternity."

Fundamentalists believe the book is literally divine. It was written by God himself and they quote scripture the way a wizard would say an incantation. (pointing out that actual mortal men authored the various books will only get you a response of, "God  inspired their writing so it was actually God writing it".) They believe it's a history book and much, much more. They believe that taking each verse as anything less than absolutely literal is akin to blasphemy.


Yet, they manage to miss the line about how Jesus and his teachings invalidate the first half of the bible.  The whole "new contract" thing.  Guess which half of the bible Genesis is in?
 
2013-06-28 05:59:44 PM  

DubtodaIll: It was that act that fulfilled the prophecies from the Old Testament.


Then why did almost all of the Jews of the day reject the idea? Things go so bad for the little death cult they had o open their doors to the gentiles and push almost all of the Jewish-y bits under the bus.
 
2013-06-28 05:59:49 PM  

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll:Slow down there Grumpy. There's plenty of bad things that happen with religion and plenty of bad things that happen without it.

You're right, in a sense, but for otherwise good people to do bad things, that takes religion.

Answer me an honest question. In America are christians responsible for the vast majority of the bigotry, misogyny, and anti-intellectualism that occurs in the present day and has throughout history?

Is it christians or atheists that want to deny civil rights to an entire group of people based on their sexual orientation?
Is it christians or atheists that want to treat women like children who are incapable of making decisions in regards to their own bodies?
Is it christians or atheists that want fairy tales taught as science?
Is it christians or atheists that actively try to revise American history to match with their myths?
Is it christians or atheists that try to pass laws forcing their bronze age morality upon society?


All Christians, but it's not because of the tenants. If atheism had the numbers of Christianity and vice versa then I would wager the same number of atrocities would be incurred by atheists. Just a side though, asking questions you already have an answer too is awfully religious.
 
2013-06-28 06:09:56 PM  

Mock26: FloydA: Mock26: Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?

My favorite example is the koala.  Not only is there no land route from Mt. Ararat to Australia (and koalas are not good swimmers), they subsist almost entirely on eucalyptus leaves.  There would have to have been a continuous distribution of eucalyptus from the Middle East to Australia, all of which vanished without leaving a single fossil as soon as the koalas made it to Australia.

Only a fool would think the story of Noah's flood was an accurate historical account.

I wonder what all the carnivores ate for 40 days and 40 nights!


That was just the rain. The flood lasted 150 days.
 
2013-06-28 06:14:10 PM  

StaleCoffee: DubtodaIll: Speaker2Animals: DubtodaIll: I don't see how the entire book gets invalidated because there's not exact detail about everything that's happened.  It's not a history book, it's a book to guide you on how to live your life.  And it's easy to take plenty of things out of context but the basic gist of the whole thing is to treat everyone fairly and don't give in to your base desires and instincts as they only satisfy you for that moment and usually bring you more pain in the future.

Ha.

[i.imgbox.com image 652x493]

That's all Old Testament, Noah's Covenant stuff.  The New Testament established a new covenant that overrules the orthodoxy of the old testament.

The argument has been thrown both ways but the problem is really with the idea that people pick and choose the hate items they want and conveniently ignore the rest. Chowing down on a Family Values Meal Bacon Platter at Chick Fil A is just jesused enough to not go to hell or something.


Not to mention that the worst of the bible-thumping fundies are all the time pointing to things in the Old Testament to justify their psychotic prejudices. I haven't been there, but I imagine there is very little New Testament in the Creationist Museum. And I posted this a few days ago in another thread, but it's worth repeating.

From Republican Gov. John Kasich, to the Republican House Speaker blocking expansion of Medicaid in Ohio:  "I said, 'I respect the fact that you believe in small government. I do, too. I also know that you're a person of faith. Now, when you die and get to the meeting with St. Peter, he's probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor. You better have a good answer.' "
 
2013-06-28 06:14:20 PM  

LordJiro: If God had to specifically make humans, that means humans aren't insignificant specks in Earth's history. That allows people to believe that, even if they aren't rich, successful or powerful, they're at least somewhat special.


I am special. My mother told me so. Why is it no enough to be special to your friends and family? Why do they need to be special to the universe? What level of egotism demands that the universe loves them?
 
2013-06-28 06:19:10 PM  

StaleCoffee: Chowing down on a Family Values Meal Bacon Platter at Chick Fil A is just jesused enough to not go to hell or something.


During the worst of the ChickFil A anti-gay marriage thing last year, a FB friend gleefully posted a picture from somewhere down South of a massive line of people waiting to get their chicken sandwiches. Another friend asked, "How many of them have ever worked at a food bank or church kitchen, which is something that Jesus actually said to do? I can't recall him ever talking about getting your chicken sandwiches in a certain place."
 
2013-06-28 06:19:47 PM  
And it felt good to de-friend her after that.
 
2013-06-28 06:54:26 PM  

King Something: 6 inches of rain per minute, worldwide, over a period of forty days. Sea level increasing by an inch every ten seconds.

Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Those creatures were able to be herded onto the ship despite the general majority of them not living within walking distance of the old man's house or drydock.

The menagerie and the ship were maintained by the old guy, his wife, his sons and their wives for over a month and a half -- a team of eight people without a day of zoological, nautical or shipbuilding experience between them, living in a time when four of them could not even get any such experience in the first place.


Plus said ship floating around at an altitude roughly 20 meters higher than the peak of Mt. Everest, well into the death zone, without any kind of specialized gear and yet not suffering anoxia, pulmonary edema, cerebral edema, or hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction.
 
2013-06-28 06:59:39 PM  

Diagonal: King Something: 6 inches of rain per minute, worldwide, over a period of forty days. Sea level increasing by an inch every ten seconds.

Two of every creature -- including ants and anteaters; penguins, platypi and poison dart frogs; ocelots, panthers and possum; Iriomote cats, Komodo dragons and Monitor lizards; lions and tigers and bears (oh my!); African elephants, Asian elephants and South American three-toed sloths -- on board a ship built by an old guy and his three sons. A ship as tall, as long and half as wide as a small football stadium, made entirely out of wood. Plus 40 days' worth of food for everyone.

Those creatures were able to be herded onto the ship despite the general majority of them not living within walking distance of the old man's house or drydock.

The menagerie and the ship were maintained by the old guy, his wife, his sons and their wives for over a month and a half -- a team of eight people without a day of zoological, nautical or shipbuilding experience between them, living in a time when four of them could not even get any such experience in the first place.

Plus said ship floating around at an altitude roughly 20 meters higher than the peak of Mt. Everest, well into the death zone, without any kind of specialized gear and yet not suffering anoxia, pulmonary edema, cerebral edema, or hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction.


Hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction isn't in the Bible so there's no way they could suffer from it. But if the water level rose, wouldn't the oxygen get pushed up as well? I mean they would have been at sea level the whole time.
 
2013-06-28 07:01:56 PM  

Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.


Yeah...something tells me that your position in heaven isn't quite as assured as you think, Pharisee.
 
2013-06-28 08:20:34 PM  

Summercat: Charlie Chingas: You're a funny lot. Looking forward to hearing all your screams in Hell from mine comfy chair up in Heaven.

Screams of pleasure, maybe :D


He's expressed strong criticism of organized religion in other threads.  He pretty much has to be trolling.
 
2013-06-28 08:37:18 PM  

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll:Slow down there Grumpy. There's plenty of bad things that happen with religion and plenty of bad things that happen without it.

You're right, in a sense, but for otherwise good people to do bad things, that takes religion.

Answer me an honest question. In America are christians responsible for the vast majority of the bigotry, misogyny, and anti-intellectualism that occurs in the present day and has throughout history?

Is it christians or atheists that want to deny civil rights to an entire group of people based on their sexual orientation?
Is it christians or atheists that want to treat women like children who are incapable of making decisions in regards to their own bodies?
Is it christians or atheists that want fairy tales taught as science?
Is it christians or atheists that actively try to revise American history to match with their myths?
Is it christians or atheists that try to pass laws forcing their bronze age morality upon society?


Well, in America, Christians have only been able to do that for the time that there's been an America, so that would only be for the past 350 years or so. And "throughout history" Christians have only been able to do that since Christianity has been the ascendant religion; that would only be since Emperor Constantine made it the state religion of Rome in the 4th Century AD, or about 1700 years.

And even that period is overlapped with another religion, Islam, which does all the things you biatch about Christianity doing (except the Bronze Age thing; they were an Iron Age religion), but much more successfully, since the Mongols embraced Islam and took it all over Asia. Oh, and Islam wasn't any more accepting of science than Christianity, btw, except for a brief period in the 10th and 11th centuries when their medicine and mathematics were considerably more advanced than in the West; after that, they were just as bad as their Christian brethren.

At least be consistent about your hate for religion.
 
2013-06-28 08:50:58 PM  

DubtodaIll: FloydA: DubtodaIll:

It's all about Blood.  The favor God showed to Cane over Able

You will probably want to re-read that part.

Yeah I saw that after I posted.  It's all about the favor God showed to Gable over Zane.


Anne of Green Gables has a whole new meaning for me now.
 
2013-06-28 09:15:17 PM  
Gyrfalcon:

At least be consistent about your hate for religion.

Absolutely, christianity is just as ridiculous and dangerous to humanity as islam, hinduism, $cientology, or any other mythology people actually take seriously.  Christianity just happens to be the dominant religion in America so it is the one that affects most of the people posting here on a daily basis.

In fact, I'll go one step farther and say that all authoritarian and totalitarian philosophies and systems of government are bad. It just so happens that religion is one of the oldest and most authoritarian power structure there is.
 
2013-06-28 09:36:50 PM  
mizchief: [blah blah blah]

i105.photobucket.com
Which point do you disagree with? Pick a number between 1 and 14.
 
2013-06-28 10:00:02 PM  

Mock26: FloydA: Mock26: Dear christians, if the story of Noah is true then please explain to me how he managed to get the opossums and groundhogs onto his dinghy?  And how did he get them back to North America?  And what about all the other animals that are not found in the middle east?

My favorite example is the koala.  Not only is there no land route from Mt. Ararat to Australia (and koalas are not good swimmers), they subsist almost entirely on eucalyptus leaves.  There would have to have been a continuous distribution of eucalyptus from the Middle East to Australia, all of which vanished without leaving a single fossil as soon as the koalas made it to Australia.

Only a fool would think the story of Noah's flood was an accurate historical account.

I wonder what all the carnivores ate for 40 days and 40 nights!


Well, Isaiah 11:6 says, "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them" (which is often misquoted as "the lion shall lie down with the lamb"), so presumably God has the power to make carnivores vegetarian.  Plus there was the whole loaves and fishes miracle.  I'd say if you're willing to believe the rest of the Bible, how Noah fed all the animals doesn't provide any real difficulty.
 
2013-06-28 10:14:52 PM  
How can someone be so farking stupid!? Honestly every time I read about creationism I just cannot believe that people (who aren't very young child or retarded) actually believe that God magically created all life about six thousand years ago, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. To paraphrase Louis Black, yeah I have a counter argument against creationism, FOSSILS, FOSSILS, FOSSILS, I WIN!

It makes me sick whenever I hear about idiots teaching kids this garbage and passing it off as science. We're in the 21st century for god sakes, not the dark ages, turn on the freaking lights!
 
2013-06-28 11:28:30 PM  

sandbar67: You'd think that they would have mentioned dinosaurs somewhere in the Bible.

[i4.ytimg.com image 480x360]


Pfft...clearly, you've never read the Bible, heathen. Job (40:15-24), for one, talks about the "behemoth":

15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.


/seriously, tho, that's considered a reference to dinosaurs among creationists, if you wondered. There's another passage in Job about the "leviathan"
 
2013-06-29 09:30:18 AM  
Here in TN, they have taken steps though new legislation to allow creationism back into the classroom.  This law turns the clock back nearly 100 years here in the seemingly unprogressive South and is simply embarrassing. There is no argument against the Theory of Evolution other than that of religious doctrine. The Monkey Law only opens the door for fanatic Christianity to creep its way back into our classrooms. You can see my visual response as a Tennessean to this absurd law on my artist's blog at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2012/04/pulpit-in-classroom-biblic a l-agenda-in.html with some evolutionary art and a little bit of simple logic.
 
2013-06-29 10:58:02 AM  

dregstudios: Here in TN, they have taken steps though new legislation to allow creationism back into the classroom.  This law turns the clock back nearly 100 years here in the seemingly unprogressive South and is simply embarrassing. There is no argument against the Theory of Evolution other than that of religious doctrine. The Monkey Law only opens the door for fanatic Christianity to creep its way back into our classrooms. You can see my visual response as a Tennessean to this absurd law on my artist's blog at http://dregstudiosart.blogspot.com/2012/04/pulpit-in-classroom-biblic a l-agenda-in.html with some evolutionary art and a little bit of simple logic.


Inherit the Wind II: Electric Boogaloo
 
2013-06-29 12:54:59 PM  

Kali-Yuga: DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith.


Because reason, logic, and critical thought are absolutely poisonous to religious faith.  At least people like Ken Ham are being honest when they claim that if any part of the bible is invalidated, it call into serious question if any of the rest is true.  Most other christians just ignore the obviously nonsense parts of the bible, and cherry pick the parts they agree with.


That's retarded. Who would've thought that a book of parables starts with, you guessed it, a parable.
 
2013-06-29 11:02:30 PM  

DubtodaIll: The further down that philosophcial rabbit hole you go the more you realize that there's no way to prove anything with 100% certainly so that's always a mind-fark.


While absolute certainty is impossible outside abstract mathematics, assessing relative probabilities is possible... at least, once you have enough abstract language for talking basic arithmatic.

DubtodaIll: I really have never understood why fundamentalists see science as a threat to their faith. Is it really that hard to accept the stories of Creation as a "rough guess" kind of thing?


If you're interested in the psychology, there's some Ken Ham lectures on-line which discuss one apparently popular (or at least widely marketed with relatively high sales in the homeschooling market) sort of reasoning. Oversimplifying and possibly misconstruing his gist, the core of the Christian faith is salvation through Christ's sacrifice; but without the Fall, there wasn't a need; so, they require a literal interpretation of Genesis, which is inconsistent with the implications of various bits of science such as modern genetics (EG: no bottlenecks in human population narrower than 1000 people in the last 100000 years). Without that being literally true, the core of their religion is meaningless.

There's also some ties to the black-and-white attitude on "authority", which your "100% certainty" seems reminiscent of.
 
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