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(CNN)   This Week In Corporate Personhood: "Attempted Corporate Homicide" is now a crime   (money.cnn.com) divider line 48
    More: Obvious, United States, Chinese, trade secrets, corporate homicide, trade law, corporate personhood, U.S. Department of Justice  
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6313 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jun 2013 at 10:52 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-28 10:55:12 AM
Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!
 
2013-06-28 10:57:34 AM

buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!


This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.
 
2013-06-28 11:01:01 AM
I was going to sympathize with the us company but they willingly made 80 percent of their company's revenues come from the Chinese one.
Why are they shocked, shocked that that firm stole their source code?
Plus if they were smart they just wouldn't sell the software but support it as well with 24/7 monitoring. That as a biz plan can't be as easily replicated / stolen.
 
2013-06-28 11:01:45 AM

ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.


There's not a lot of incentive to innovate if your foreign competitors are just going to steal it and you're stuck with a large NRE bill.
 
2013-06-28 11:02:13 AM
Hey China. In capitalism, we don't steal, we just reverse engineer. Get with the program!
 
2013-06-28 11:02:29 AM
Gay corporations can now marry with federal tax benefits.

Offer void in certain 37 states. No abortion clinics. Battery making corporations included. Lionel and other HGC (Historically Gay Companies) are especially encouraged.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-06-28 11:02:45 AM
my heart just bleeds for the corporate whiners.

Stop ramming broomsticks up the ass of every american and I will care about corporate america again.
 
2013-06-28 11:03:16 AM

ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.


What industry should do is stay the hell out of China.  Outsourcing our manufacturing there is allowing them to nullify the DECADES of technological advantage we had over the world.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-06-28 11:04:03 AM

Lexx: ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.

What industry should do is stay the hell out of China.  Outsourcing our manufacturing there is allowing them to nullify the DECADES of technological advantage we had over the world.


but but but but UNIONS.  But but but but people in the US actually want to do things like EAT...
 
2013-06-28 11:04:09 AM
Oh and it was an employee in Austria that was convicted of stealing the code:
http://mobile.boston.com/business/articles/2011/09/24/engineer_guilty_ in_software_theft/

For $1.7M and an apartment in Beijing. For that hundreds of millions of market cap went down the drain.
 
2013-06-28 11:05:25 AM

ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.


Then manufacture them in China? *imp*
 
2013-06-28 11:19:42 AM

d23: Lexx: ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.

What industry should do is stay the hell out of China.  Outsourcing our manufacturing there is allowing them to nullify the DECADES of technological advantage we had over the world.

but but but but UNIONS.  But but but but people in the US actually want to do things like EAT...


Americans don't outsource their food production, how does being able to eat come into play here.  Oh, are you suggesting that the only reason we can afford our techno-toys is because we're taking advantage of inequities in global economics to produce them, and if we made them locally, there's no way in hell we could afford our current lifestyles? Is that it?  Because if it is, I do sympathize, but we've gotta realize that this artificially inflated affluence is going to kill us in the long run, since the 3rd world hell holes we're using to make our shiat are leapfrogging us in progress.
 
2013-06-28 11:25:09 AM
As much as I hate the idea of corporate personhood, this kind of corporate espionage should be harshly punished.  There are many people who were wrongly effected by this, and these sort of actions can ripple through the economy.
 
2013-06-28 11:28:31 AM
Obligatory:

www.donnellycolt.com
 
2013-06-28 11:31:16 AM
China sure is trying to crush any US development in "Green" power generation.  They've already destroyed the US solar panel manufacturers by subsidizing the hell out of the Chinese manufacturers.  I guess Wind Turbines are next.  It makes sense as a national strategy, don't let any other country get an advantage in new energy technologies.

1.  New Technology comes out
2. Copy it
3. Subsidize the hell out of it
4. Profit
 
2013-06-28 11:32:02 AM
We should start intentionally leaving corrupted IP in places where Chinese agents would be likely to pick it up. For these wind mills, maybe tweak the source code so they fling themselves apart in high winds. Now, when it comes to stuff like software for a chemical plant or oil refinery, things could be a lot more fun.
 
2013-06-28 11:35:47 AM
Thanks, subby, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who picked up on that.

If the corporation is planning to spin off new companies in the near future, will there be additional charges for the death of their unborn children?
 
2013-06-28 11:37:56 AM

lelio: I was going to sympathize with the us company but they willingly made 80 percent of their company's revenues come from the Chinese one


I was going to sympathize with them as well.  They sold some turbines to China and then they stole the software and told them to fark off.

Well, according to this Business Week article,  they had pretty much already giving China the keys to the kingdom.  They built the factory there to take advantage of more cost effective labor and only keep firmware manufacturing out of Chinese hands.  Its like giving somebody a car, but not giving them the keys.  They have 99% of the product, if they can steal or finagle the rest, you are farked.

And China is not going to do a damned thing about it.  Sure, they AMSC may get some money, but it will not be in relation to what was stolen from them them in terms of current and future revenues.

The saddest part is that businesses will still go balls to the wall to get into the Chinese market because it won't happen to them and Americans are just paid too damned much!

//wonders if the Serbian programmer would turned if AMSC was giving him a larger salary in the first place.
 
2013-06-28 11:40:46 AM

enry: ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.

There's not a lot of incentive to innovate if your foreign competitors are just going to steal it and you're stuck with a large NRE bill.


The incentive to innovate is: if you don't, you'll go out of business.That's called competition, something that most businesspeople don't really like coping with.
 
2013-06-28 11:43:08 AM

Lexx: d23: Lexx: ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.

What industry should do is stay the hell out of China.  Outsourcing our manufacturing there is allowing them to nullify the DECADES of technological advantage we had over the world.

but but but but UNIONS.  But but but but people in the US actually want to do things like EAT...

Americans don't outsource their food production, how does being able to eat come into play here.  Oh, are you suggesting that the only reason we can afford our techno-toys is because we're taking advantage of inequities in global economics to produce them, and if we made them locally, there's no way in hell we could afford our current lifestyles? Is that it?  Because if it is, I do sympathize, but we've gotta realize that this artificially inflated affluence is going to kill us in the long run, since the 3rd world hell holes we're using to make our shiat are leapfrogging us in progress.


Labor is a small portion of the cost of any item. Materials and overhead are the biggest portion. Chinese labor just allows for companies to take a larger margin. I work in manufacturing purchasing, and part of my job is offshoring/reshoring goods. One problem I face with American manufacturers is greed. They overcharge for their labor and machine burden and expect a higher margin than acceptable. This drives them to go overseas where they can charge less and make more.
 
2013-06-28 11:55:39 AM
Does that mean Romney could be charged with murder, then?
 
2013-06-28 12:06:17 PM
I'll take corporate personhood seriously when people go to jail for committing crimes against people and property. I'm looking at you Bank of America with your repossessing peoples homes that don't have a farking MORTGAGE!
 
2013-06-28 12:18:38 PM

jayphat: I'll take corporate personhood seriously when people go to jail for committing crimes against people and property. I'm looking at you Bank of America with your repossessing peoples homes that don't have a farking MORTGAGE!


It's more important that a guy who used chalk to write on the sidewalk outside 13 BoA branches go to prison for over a decade.
 
2013-06-28 12:21:27 PM

give me doughnuts: jayphat: I'll take corporate personhood seriously when people go to jail for committing crimes against people and property. I'm looking at you Bank of America with your repossessing peoples homes that don't have a farking MORTGAGE!

It's more important that a guy who used chalk to write on the sidewalk outside 13 BoA branches go to prison for over a decade.


In all fairness, the odds that that guy sees barely any jail time at all is slim to none. Even the judge said that.
 
2013-06-28 12:30:35 PM

Lexx: d23: Lexx: ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.

What industry should do is stay the hell out of China.  Outsourcing our manufacturing there is allowing them to nullify the DECADES of technological advantage we had over the world.

but but but but UNIONS.  But but but but people in the US actually want to do things like EAT...

Americans don't outsource their food production, how does being able to eat come into play here.  Oh, are you suggesting that the only reason we can afford our techno-toys is because we're taking advantage of inequities in global economics to produce them, and if we made them locally, there's no way in hell we could afford our current lifestyles? Is that it?  Because if it is, I do sympathize, but we've gotta realize that this artificially inflated affluence is going to kill us in the long run, since the 3rd world hell holes we're using to make our shiat are leapfrogging us in progress.


I think he's just saying that American workers, because of unions, used to be able to demand livable wages, while workers in China basically have to put up with whatever their employer demands and take whatever the employer pays.
 
2013-06-28 12:32:05 PM

SN1987a goes boom: As much as I hate the idea of corporate personhood, this kind of corporate espionage should be harshly punished.  There are many people who were wrongly effected by this, and these sort of actions can ripple through the economy.


Find a way to do it, and the world will steal it from you.
 
2013-06-28 12:34:36 PM

wingnut396: lelio: I was going to sympathize with the us company but they willingly made 80 percent of their company's revenues come from the Chinese one

I was going to sympathize with them as well.  They sold some turbines to China and then they stole the software and told them to fark off.

Well, according to this Business Week article,  they had pretty much already giving China the keys to the kingdom.  They built the factory there to take advantage of more cost effective labor and only keep firmware manufacturing out of Chinese hands.  Its like giving somebody a car, but not giving them the keys.  They have 99% of the product, if they can steal or finagle the rest, you are farked.

And China is not going to do a damned thing about it.  Sure, they AMSC may get some money, but it will not be in relation to what was stolen from them them in terms of current and future revenues.

The saddest part is that businesses will still go balls to the wall to get into the Chinese market because it won't happen to them and Americans are just paid too damned much!

//wonders if the Serbian programmer would turned if AMSC was giving him a larger salary in the first place.


USians aren't paid too much, management just likes to take 80% of the profits home at the end of the day. This is why US productivity is the highest in the world, we have the most millionaires in the world, the middle class is shriveling away, and malnutrition is increasingly a problem for working-class USians.
 
2013-06-28 12:35:18 PM
Well... that blows.
 
2013-06-28 12:36:25 PM

Heron: wingnut396: lelio: I was going to sympathize with the us company but they willingly made 80 percent of their company's revenues come from the Chinese one

I was going to sympathize with them as well.  They sold some turbines to China and then they stole the software and told them to fark off.

Well, according to this Business Week article,  they had pretty much already giving China the keys to the kingdom.  They built the factory there to take advantage of more cost effective labor and only keep firmware manufacturing out of Chinese hands.  Its like giving somebody a car, but not giving them the keys.  They have 99% of the product, if they can steal or finagle the rest, you are farked.

And China is not going to do a damned thing about it.  Sure, they AMSC may get some money, but it will not be in relation to what was stolen from them them in terms of current and future revenues.

The saddest part is that businesses will still go balls to the wall to get into the Chinese market because it won't happen to them and Americans are just paid too damned much!

//wonders if the Serbian programmer would turned if AMSC was giving him a larger salary in the first place.

USians aren't paid too much, management just likes to take 80% of the profits home at the end of the day. This is why even though US productivity is the highest in the world, and we have the most millionaires in the world, the middle class is shriveling away and malnutrition is increasingly a problem for working-class USians.


FTFM
Should make what I was saying a bit clearer.
 
2013-06-28 12:39:00 PM
For the last 25 years, the implicit economic policies of the U.S. have benefited one nation only: China. We have sent them money and intellectual property hand over fist.

/Forget the Saudis, the Bush family is owned by the Chinese
 
2013-06-28 12:44:50 PM
You think by now someone would be clever enough to put a bunch of bad false code out there for things. So when they install it poof. Didnt the US do this to the USSR during the cold war? Where the USSR thought they "stole" this software for something to do with oil pipelines. But unbeknownst to them it was something the CIA had made special for them that caused a fark up with the pipeline and an explosion.
 
2013-06-28 12:45:10 PM

ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.


For God's sake, let them steal that so they cna clean up some of that air pollution over there.
 
2013-06-28 12:52:48 PM

wingnut396: lelio: I was going to sympathize with the us company but they willingly made 80 percent of their company's revenues come from the Chinese one

I was going to sympathize with them as well.  They sold some turbines to China and then they stole the software and told them to fark off.

Well, according to this Business Week article,  they had pretty much already giving China the keys to the kingdom.  They built the factory there to take advantage of more cost effective labor and only keep firmware manufacturing out of Chinese hands.  Its like giving somebody a car, but not giving them the keys.  They have 99% of the product, if they can steal or finagle the rest, you are farked.

And China is not going to do a damned thing about it.  Sure, they AMSC may get some money, but it will not be in relation to what was stolen from them them in terms of current and future revenues.

The saddest part is that businesses will still go balls to the wall to get into the Chinese market because it won't happen to them and Americans are just paid too damned much!

//wonders if the Serbian programmer would turned if AMSC was giving him a larger salary in the first place.


I have dealt with the chinese several times in the past. I don't know if my experuence was typical, but I can say that I witnessed several attempts at stealing code and reverse engineering.

Is it a requirement that you be evil to own a business in china?

And don't get me started on their safety...I swear they get a bonus for adding lead to everything.
 
2013-06-28 12:53:36 PM
"The capitalists will sell us the rope we will hang them with."  - Lenin
 
2013-06-28 12:55:09 PM
Big fish being eaten by a bigger fish.  It's the circle of life.

One comforting thought.  The financial infrastructure in the PRC is not the most stable.  Eventually, they will overextend their capital base.  It will be interesting to see the socialist reponse to running out of money.
 
2013-06-28 12:55:20 PM

Zeno-25: We should start intentionally leaving corrupted IP in places where Chinese agents would be likely to pick it up. For these wind mills, maybe tweak the source code so they fling themselves apart in high winds. Now, when it comes to stuff like software for a chemical plant or oil refinery, things could be a lot more fun.


Yeah, we could call it the War of Terror. That way we can use conventional assets to attack terrorists while we fight a conventional enemy with terrorism. Let's get right on that.

...

...

*slowly backs away*
 
2013-06-28 12:59:50 PM

sethen320: wingnut396: lelio: I was going to sympathize with the us company but they willingly made 80 percent of their company's revenues come from the Chinese one

I was going to sympathize with them as well.  They sold some turbines to China and then they stole the software and told them to fark off.

Well, according to this Business Week article,  they had pretty much already giving China the keys to the kingdom.  They built the factory there to take advantage of more cost effective labor and only keep firmware manufacturing out of Chinese hands.  Its like giving somebody a car, but not giving them the keys.  They have 99% of the product, if they can steal or finagle the rest, you are farked.

And China is not going to do a damned thing about it.  Sure, they AMSC may get some money, but it will not be in relation to what was stolen from them them in terms of current and future revenues.

The saddest part is that businesses will still go balls to the wall to get into the Chinese market because it won't happen to them and Americans are just paid too damned much!

//wonders if the Serbian programmer would turned if AMSC was giving him a larger salary in the first place.

I have dealt with the chinese several times in the past. I don't know if my experuence was typical, but I can say that I witnessed several attempts at stealing code and reverse engineering.

Is it a requirement that you be evil to own a business in china?

And don't get me started on their safety...I swear they get a bonus for adding lead to everything.


From several friends and relatives in the same boat, it seems to be typical.  For all of their Communist blathering, the average Mandarin is as self centered and avaracious as they come.  And they scoff at the Western rules of fair play.  All methods are fair, as long as they achieve their ends.  If they fail, it is to their undying shame.  Achievement and mastery is utmost in whatever field is undertaken.
 
2013-06-28 01:17:04 PM
myidealwoman.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-06-28 01:32:59 PM

Another Government Employee: sethen320: wingnut396: lelio: I was going to sympathize with the us company but they willingly made 80 percent of their company's revenues come from the Chinese one

I was going to sympathize with them as well.  They sold some turbines to China and then they stole the software and told them to fark off.

Well, according to this Business Week article,  they had pretty much already giving China the keys to the kingdom.  They built the factory there to take advantage of more cost effective labor and only keep firmware manufacturing out of Chinese hands.  Its like giving somebody a car, but not giving them the keys.  They have 99% of the product, if they can steal or finagle the rest, you are farked.

And China is not going to do a damned thing about it.  Sure, they AMSC may get some money, but it will not be in relation to what was stolen from them them in terms of current and future revenues.

The saddest part is that businesses will still go balls to the wall to get into the Chinese market because it won't happen to them and Americans are just paid too damned much!

//wonders if the Serbian programmer would turned if AMSC was giving him a larger salary in the first place.

I have dealt with the chinese several times in the past. I don't know if my experuence was typical, but I can say that I witnessed several attempts at stealing code and reverse engineering.

Is it a requirement that you be evil to own a business in china?

And don't get me started on their safety...I swear they get a bonus for adding lead to everything.

From several friends and relatives in the same boat, it seems to be typical.  For all of their Communist blathering, the average Mandarin is as self centered and avaracious as they come.  And they scoff at the Western rules of fair play.  All methods are fair, as long as they achieve their ends.  If they fail, it is to their undying shame.  Achievement and mastery is utmost in whatever field is undertaken.


They're also very reluctant to actually pay their bills.

For a while we would not do business with chinese companies unless they paid up front.
 
2013-06-28 01:45:17 PM
Life begins at incorporation. Killing a corporaton is murder. In fact, to be on the safe side, life begins at the signing of the memo of intent to create a corporation.

Humans? We don't need no stinking humans. All we need is a mailbox in Delaware.
 
2013-06-28 01:52:49 PM
"A conviction could carry penalties approaching $5 billion for Sinovel, as well as lengthy prison sentences for the accused individuals."
-=-
Penalty? Sure.
Jail? Never happen.
 
2013-06-28 02:07:58 PM

brantgoose: Life begins at incorporation. Killing a corporaton is murder. In fact, to be on the safe side, life begins at the signing of the memo of intent to create a corporation.

Humans? We don't need no stinking humans. All we need is a mailbox in Delaware.


And the act of shredding that memo is contrary to the sanctity of corporate life?

Sorry, I'm pro choice (reaches for the Zippo)
 
2013-06-28 02:09:53 PM
This is nothing...

Here's something that will keep you up at night.

Many MANY corporate institutions
have kept their books in the black by purposely employing people the company considers death/suicide risks.

That insurance policy the company gives "you" and your family incase of accidental death while you work for them.

Read the fine print most are double indemnity policies issued by the insurance companies.

Your family may get $10,000
But they will get $100,000

Walmart and many many others do this.

The employee is now part of the machine with a dollar value
 
2013-06-28 02:35:50 PM

Bocasio: This is nothing...

Here's something that will keep you up at night.

Many MANY corporate institutions
have kept their books in the black by purposely employing people the company considers death/suicide risks.

That insurance policy the company gives "you" and your family incase of accidental death while you work for them.

Read the fine print most are double indemnity policies issued by the insurance companies.

Your family may get $10,000
But they will get $100,000

Walmart and many many others do this.

The employee is now part of the machine with a dollar value


Dead peasant coverage?

Yeah, it exists.  Wal Mart is one of the larger customers of the policies.  Because of the neglible payouts, the premiums are pennies per unit and don't even register in the overhead calculations.  But, trust me.  The corps aren't counting on that as an ongoing revenue source.
 
2013-06-28 02:50:24 PM

Lexx: ThreeEdgedSword: buzzcut73: Chinese suppliers stealing intellectual property? Say it isn't so!

This Chinese have 6,000 years worth of history that says this is what they do.  We shouldn't be surprised.  Also, industry should quit whining and continue to innovate better and better products.

What industry should do is stay the hell out of China.  Outsourcing our manufacturing there is allowing them to nullify the DECADES of technological advantage we had over the world.


B-b-b-b-but SHAREHOLDERS! They'll dump our stock if we don't outsource!
 
2013-06-28 06:29:14 PM
You know, it would be harder to steal from US companies if US companies didn't choose foreigners like the Chinese as employees over people born and raised in the US.  Isn't this a little inconsistent with the Ermahgerd!  Secrets! mania of the Snowden affair?  At least Snowden wasn't fresh off the plane from Guaungzhou.


"Oh, but this is really hard STEM stuff only Asians know how to do" arguments in 3, 2, 1....
 
2013-06-28 06:29:49 PM
"Guangzhou".
 
2013-06-28 08:10:18 PM
 Hell why not? They already have more protection under the law than real people anyway. You commit a crime against a Corporation and you are almost guaranteed to receive a greater penalty than if you committed the same crime against a flesh and blood person. And this doesn't even involve the greater access to justice corporations enjoy over the average person, this is just how the laws are written (often by corporate lobbyist) to begin with.

it's everything 80's dystopian  future movies said it would be.
 
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