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660 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Jun 2013 at 10:52 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:    more»

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EightyEight: TheFark5000: Funny that women have to be perfect at everything.  Even if they are beating half the men, those men are still considered "real" while the woman is still "fake".

It's not about being real or fake, it's marketing and the amount of coverage an athlete gets vs. what they have accomplished. Danica has not earned the amount of attention she gets for any reason other than being a cute girl. Same principle for Dale Jr., and 10x that for Tim Tebow, many among us would like them to earn the time spent on them. I have nothing against Jr. or Danica but I feel they are given way to much coverage given what they have accomplished careerwise.

/login is before Jr had that number, has nothing to with him

Junior has 19 wins in 14 years over a win a year average, a Daytona win, and is usually a chase contender. Granted he may not be deserving of all the hype around him but he's a pretty good driver.

As for Tebow, he is a sports media creation. Does he even sponsor anything? I can't recall seeing an ad with him in it.

Its been kinda crappy since 2007 though.

Gosling: You want to mock? Mock Bliss and Riggs.

You might have a point if Danica was running in the same crappy cars that they had.

poconojoe: meanmutton: She was a rather good open-wheel driver and is a mediocre NASCAR driver.  It's not like she's terrible or anything and certainly is good enough to be on the track with the men.

she was an okay open wheel driver in good equipment against a pretty average talent field in the IRL (her only win in the IRL came during a fuel-mileage race at Motegi).  with her team - she should have put together more wins and solid finishes, but she just didn't for whatever reason.

in NASCAR - had she stayed in Nationwide/Trucks for a few seasons and learned the setups and the tracks and what it takes to run at the front and been patient - she would be doing much better at the Cup level.  instead - Go Daddy wanted her in Cup and she's struggling.  will she learn and improve?  maybe.  will she win on the Cup level?  i doubt it, unless she gets a lucky break at daytona or talladega.

I agree, but I submit that had she stayed in IndyCar, she might be more competitive. In fact, this seems to be the problem - whenever she starts to find her groove, she moves/gets moved to another level and has to repeat the process. She needs another season or two in Nationwide; she had a few decent runs there last year, and might have had Road America were it not for Villenuve. If nothing else, it would have prepped her a little more for Cup.

Gosling: TheFark5000: Funny that women have to be perfect at everything.  Even if they are beating half the men, those men are still considered "real" while the woman is still "fake".

The really funny thing is that nobody ever ever ever mocks the guys that didn't even qualify. And not every race kicks people out in qualifying because sometimes only 43 cars show up.

So far this season, that group includes:

Mike Bliss (Daytona, Las Vegas, Martinsville, Charlotte)
Scott Riggs (Bristol, Texas, Michigan)
Brian Keselowski (Daytona)
Scott Speed (Texas)
Joe Nemechek (Kansas)

Last season, just for the sake of having a complete schedule to work from, we have:

J.J. Yeley (Daytona, Richmond, Talladega, Charlotte, Kentucky, Michigan 2, Bristol 2, Richmond 2, Martinsville 2, Phoenix 2)
Mike Bliss (Martinsville, Darlington, Charlotte, New Hampshire, Atlanta, Dover 2, Martinsville 2)
Scott Riggs (Las Vegas, Richmond, Darlington, Charlotte, New Hampshire 2, Charlotte 2)
Stephen Leicht (Darlington, Pocono 2, Michigan 2, Atlanta, Texas 2, Homestead)
David Stremme (Texas, Pocono, Michigan, Dover 2, Texas 2)
Joe Nemechek (California, Texas, Indianapolis, Charlotte 2, Homestead)
Josh Wise (Dover, Atlanta, New Hampshire 2, Charlotte 2)
Timmy Hill (Phoenix, Bristol, California)
Robby Gordon (Las Vegas, Bristol, California)
Michael McDowell (Darlington, Indianapolis, Atlanta)
Jeff Green (Kansas, Richmond 2, New Hampshire 2)
Cole Whitt (Dover, Dover 2, Charlotte 2)
Kelly Bires (Bristol 2, Dover 2, Texas 2)
Reed Sorensen (Indianapolis, Bristol 2, Homestead)
Jason Leffler (New Hampshire 2, Dover 2, Homestead)
Tony Raines (Martinsville, Kansas)
Stacy Compton (Texas, Michigan)
Robert Richardson Jr. (Daytona, Daytona 2)
Scott Speed (Martinsville, Bristol 2)
Kenny Wallace (Daytona)
Michael Waltrip (Daytona)
Bill Elliott (Daytona)
Mike Wallace (Daytona)
Tim Andrews (Kansas)
David Reutimann (Charlotte)
Brian Simo (Sonoma)
Mike Skinner (Kentucky)

You want to mock? Mock Bliss an ...

She still won't sleep with you.

Lifeless: stir22: admittedly i don't know a whole lot about nascar, but, it appears to me that she is trying to save her equipment while learning.  i don't see a whole lot of aggressive driving from her towards the end of races.  imho, this is probably by design...why wreck a 200K car trying to get from 27th to 21st?

she was caught on mike during one race (i forget which one) saying that she wasn't getting any help, that drivers weren't getting out of her way when they were getting out of the way of other drivers...there might be something to this.  sure, she is middle of the pack now...but this is her what, 2nd year?  1st full year?  lets see where she is 2-3 years from now.

They won't let a newbie driver pass if they can't trust that driver to not cause a wreck while doing so.  Last year's champion, Brad Keselowski, took years to shed this stigma and earn the respect of the other drivers, and he did it through results.  She just isn't getting there in good equipment and won't be getting better equipment unless a top team gets desperate for money.

and this is why i defer to people who know about nascar.  i watch it for the enjoyment, but never got into it enough to actually think about the stuff you refer to.  i wonder how long she'll have a top-notch ride if she doesn't produce.

In defense of Danica, she is far from the only person racing in Indy or NASCAR that got the ride because they are photogenic and do a good job pushing the sponsors product.  I'm sure being "Mayor of Hitchtown" helped in getting the Go Daddy Indy ride when Danica left for NASCAR.

That said, I wonder if Danica isn't content with being a mid pack spokesperson instead of a champion. When she was racing in Europe, Jackie Stewart said she had the talent to make it in F1.

I just want to know when the male drivers are going to start doing commercials for their products in skimpy outfits.

/I'm looking at you, Mr Harvick
//but not Mr Stewart
///ewww

stir22: Lifeless: stir22: admittedly i don't know a whole lot about nascar, but, it appears to me that she is trying to save her equipment while learning.  i don't see a whole lot of aggressive driving from her towards the end of races.  imho, this is probably by design...why wreck a 200K car trying to get from 27th to 21st?

she was caught on mike during one race (i forget which one) saying that she wasn't getting any help, that drivers weren't getting out of her way when they were getting out of the way of other drivers...there might be something to this.  sure, she is middle of the pack now...but this is her what, 2nd year?  1st full year?  lets see where she is 2-3 years from now.

They won't let a newbie driver pass if they can't trust that driver to not cause a wreck while doing so.  Last year's champion, Brad Keselowski, took years to shed this stigma and earn the respect of the other drivers, and he did it through results.  She just isn't getting there in good equipment and won't be getting better equipment unless a top team gets desperate for money.

and this is why i defer to people who know about nascar.  i watch it for the enjoyment, but never got into it enough to actually think about the stuff you refer to.  i wonder how long she'll have a top-notch ride if she doesn't produce.

As long as she's bringing in big fat sponsor dollars, she'll have a decent ride.

See: Paul Menard, Dale Earnhardt, Jr.

FreeLawyer: In defense of Danica, she is far from the only person racing in Indy or NASCAR that got the ride because they are photogenic and do a good job pushing the sponsors product.  I'm sure being "Mayor of Hitchtown" helped in getting the Go Daddy Indy ride when Danica left for NASCAR.

That said, I wonder if Danica isn't content with being a mid pack spokesperson instead of a champion. When she was racing in Europe, Jackie Stewart said she had the talent to make it in F1.

James Hinchcliffe is pretty and wins races.

Danica raced in British Formula Ford for three years and didn't advance out of it.  That would be like Joe Torre saying some 27-year-old in single-A ball is finally going to make the step up to the bigs.  As for Stewart's eye for talent... he couldn't do a damn thing while owning a team with direct backing from the biggest car company in the world; a company which, at the time, had won more F1 races than any other engine manufacturer.  He divested himself after three years and now the team is owned by Red Bull.

Clutch2013: poconojoe: meanmutton: She was a rather good open-wheel driver and is a mediocre NASCAR driver.  It's not like she's terrible or anything and certainly is good enough to be on the track with the men.

she was an okay open wheel driver in good equipment against a pretty average talent field in the IRL (her only win in the IRL came during a fuel-mileage race at Motegi).  with her team - she should have put together more wins and solid finishes, but she just didn't for whatever reason.

in NASCAR - had she stayed in Nationwide/Trucks for a few seasons and learned the setups and the tracks and what it takes to run at the front and been patient - she would be doing much better at the Cup level.  instead - Go Daddy wanted her in Cup and she's struggling.  will she learn and improve?  maybe.  will she win on the Cup level?  i doubt it, unless she gets a lucky break at daytona or talladega.

I agree, but I submit that had she stayed in IndyCar, she might be more competitive. In fact, this seems to be the problem - whenever she starts to find her groove, she moves/gets moved to another level and has to repeat the process. She needs another season or two in Nationwide; she had a few decent runs there last year, and might have had Road America were it not for Villenuve. If nothing else, it would have prepped her a little more for Cup.

there were a lot of people who could have won a race last season if it wasn't for Villenuve, which is why is wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms last week at Sonoma

\it's too bad - the guy's still fast, but just doesn't understand how to pace himself for an entire race
\\hitting everybody on the track doesn't help either

She's not bad. Still getting the hang of Cup cars and tracks. Doesn't help that just as she was getting used to one car (the COT) they switched to a new one (Gen6). Also, in Nationwide and Cup alike, she has a bad habit of getting caught up in other peoples wrecks. There were a number of top 10 finished in NWide that were wiped out because someone blew a tire and took out half the pack, including her. And don't forget the shoe incident in Montreal. She must have put her golden horseshoe in upside down, for all the bad luck she has had in her brief stock car career.

Dumb-Ass-Monkey: She's not bad. Still getting the hang of Cup cars and tracks. Doesn't help that just as she was getting used to one car (the COT) they switched to a new one (Gen6). Also, in Nationwide and Cup alike, she has a bad habit of getting caught up in other peoples wrecks. There were a number of top 10 finished in NWide that were wiped out because someone blew a tire and took out half the pack, including her. And don't forget the shoe incident in Montreal. She must have put her golden horseshoe in upside down, for all the bad luck she has had in her brief stock car career.

I will say this - in her Nationwide stint last year, she looked like she was taking to those cars a lot faster than she did to IndyCar.

It's another reason why I wish she would have held back a couple more seasons - she might not have been champion, but she'd certainly be a contender.

I can understand not liking all the media attention she gets, but let's set that aside and focus just on talent/accomplishment/whatever. How many other rookies are getting this level of ire and scrutiny?

The Bestest: I can understand not liking all the media attention she gets, but let's set that aside and focus just on talent/accomplishment/whatever. How many other rookies are getting this level of ire and scrutiny?

Joey Logano, recently.  I'm going to be frank; he was pretty much middling until he moved to Penske (and even now, he's just slightly better).  Yes, he beat out Harvick at Pocono last year, but before that, his only other win was a rain-shortened New Hampshire event in '09, and his best points finish was in 2010 (16th).  But through his first two seasons, you couldn't get DW and a few others to shut up about him.  Did it ever reach Danica levels?  No.  But it was certainly memorable.

Something something John Force daughters something something best 4.7 seconds of their lives.

Clutch2013: Joey Logano, recently.  I'm going to be frank; he was pretty much middling until he moved to Penske (and even now, he's just slightly better).  Yes, he beat out Harvick at Pocono last year, but before that, his only other win was a rain-shortened New Hampshire event in '09, and his best points finish was in 2010 (16th).  But through his first two seasons, you couldn't get DW and a few others to shut up about him.  Did it ever reach Danica levels?  No.  But it was certainly memorable.

that's what I mean.. in Logano's first year, did you have so many people saying "he's not that good" and "he doesn't belong in Cup"?

The Bestest: Clutch2013: Joey Logano, recently.  I'm going to be frank; he was pretty much middling until he moved to Penske (and even now, he's just slightly better).  Yes, he beat out Harvick at Pocono last year, but before that, his only other win was a rain-shortened New Hampshire event in '09, and his best points finish was in 2010 (16th).  But through his first two seasons, you couldn't get DW and a few others to shut up about him.  Did it ever reach Danica levels?  No.  But it was certainly memorable.

that's what I mean.. in Logano's first year, did you have so many people saying "he's not that good" and "he doesn't belong in Cup"?

...Yeah, it occurred to me as soon as I clicked Add Message that I may have answered that one wrong.

Let me try that again.

Nope.

To sum up:
-She's good enough to be there, but not great enough to win.
-Is 26th in points while driving a first-rate car (Hendrick).
-She brings in sponsor $$, thus guarantees herself a ride. -She gets disproportionate coverage for her racing achievements. -We'd all disappoint her in 15 seconds, but we'd much rather disappoint many of the male drivers' wives. -Kyle Petty, as he points out, is an authority on running in the back of the field every week. He's almost saying, "She's not better than me and I wasn't all that good." (He still has eight wins.) I'll add three things: -She's 'caused' one wreck this season, for a cut tire. Not caused by lack of driving skill. -Her average start is 32nd. Her average finish is 25th. It would be much more telling if the numbers were reversed. -She only has one DNF, for that cut tire. These are all good signs that she's not terrible. She brings in the$$ and fills out the field better than the guys who qualify, run one lap, and retire for transmission issues.

I am not a big fan of NASCAR, but if Kyle Petty, a former driver, tells me that a marketing creation can be competitive in the top level of their sport, then I lost a whole lot of respect for him and this competition.

enad58: I am not a big fan of NASCAR, but if Kyle Petty, a former driver, tells me that a marketing creation can be competitive in the top level of their sport, then I lost a whole lot of respect for him and this competition.

She's competing for 20th place.

enad58: I am not a big fan of NASCAR, but if Kyle Petty, a former driver, tells me that a marketing creation can be competitive in the top level of their sport, then I lost a whole lot of respect for him and this competition.

She's not a "marketing creation". A "marketing darling", sure I'll give you that, but they didn't just snatch her out of the blue and throw her in the top league in some Disney-esque scheme. There's a bunch of other women in all levels of racing (usually 1-3 per circuit), some of them even prettier (I consider Danica a 6 tops, but maybe that's just me), but there's a reason Danica is where she is.

Now, did she get unfairly promoted/accelerated to where she is because she is so marketable? Sure. There's a valid argument that a Dan Patrick instead of Danica would still be in Indy, mid-packing in mediocre equipment. Putting aside her head start, to say that she doesn't belong now that she's there, especially in a rookie season is just silly and your own other prejudices showing, whatever they may be.. Let me ask, who is more deserving of her ride (equipment quality-wise), and would they be having greater success?

Danica has had championship-caliber equipment and has done nothing with it. She had Rahal (when the Panoz was good), Andretti Autosport in Indycar and now JR Motorsports and SHR cars. What did Kyle Petty have? Other than decent SABCO equipment in the early 90s (if 1992 had a chase, Kyle Petty would have won), he raced for his dad's team which was his downfall, and also with the Wood Brothers in the 80s when they were starting their long way down to mid-pack. If Kyle raced for Hendrick or Roush, he would have easily had more wins.

She is a sex symbol and a marketing machine who uses her FHM and SI bikini shoots to her advantage. I don't think, say, Johanna Long would ever do a bikini shoot.

Foo Monkey: I'll add three things:
-She's 'caused' one wreck this season, for a cut tire.  Not caused by lack of driving skill.
-Her average start is 32nd.  Her average finish is 25th.  It would be much more telling if the numbers were reversed.
-She only has one DNF, for that cut tire.

Danica's been like this her whole career, I'll give her that much. She had the longest non-DNF streak at the time when she left the IICS. She does a great job in taking care of her equipment. As aggressive as she looks with the photoshoots off the track, she doesn't show aggression when the race piles on.

Random Name Generator: Danica has had championship-caliber equipment and has done nothing with it. She had Rahal (when the Panoz was good), Andretti Autosport in Indycar and now JR Motorsports and SHR cars. What did Kyle Petty have? Other than decent SABCO equipment in the early 90s (if 1992 had a chase, Kyle Petty would have won), he raced for his dad's team which was his downfall, and also with the Wood Brothers in the 80s when they were starting their long way down to mid-pack. If Kyle raced for Hendrick or Roush, he would have easily had more wins.

She is a sex symbol and a marketing machine who uses her FHM and SI bikini shoots to her advantage. I don't think, say, Johanna Long would ever do a bikini shoot.

..because Smoke and Newman have just been tearin up the track this year, right? Again, why is so much expectation being pilled on a rookie?

The Bestest: Random Name Generator: Danica has had championship-caliber equipment and has done nothing with it. She had Rahal (when the Panoz was good), Andretti Autosport in Indycar and now JR Motorsports and SHR cars. What did Kyle Petty have? Other than decent SABCO equipment in the early 90s (if 1992 had a chase, Kyle Petty would have won), he raced for his dad's team which was his downfall, and also with the Wood Brothers in the 80s when they were starting their long way down to mid-pack. If Kyle raced for Hendrick or Roush, he would have easily had more wins.

She is a sex symbol and a marketing machine who uses her FHM and SI bikini shoots to her advantage. I don't think, say, Johanna Long would ever do a bikini shoot.

..because Smoke and Newman have just been tearin up the track this year, right? Again, why is so much expectation being pilled on a rookie?

Smoke's a second-half driver.  Newman's in the last year of his contract.  Smoke will make the chase. Don't worry about that.

What's worse:

- Knowing that she's just a manufactured marketing ploy, or;
- Knowing that a manufactured marketing ploy is still placing 10th in IndyCar for 2011, 10th in Nationwide for 2012, and 27th in Sprint Cup for 2013?

See, we know she's a marketing ploy, there, Petty. What sends a rather damning note about the sport to the rest of us is that she's still made \$90K+ a week on average in June, even when she ends up in 29th place.

She may be a marketing ploy, but the simple fact is that she demonstrates that racing demands more money & backing than it does skill - so what, exactly, does that say about you, the proverbial kid born with a silver stick shift in your mouth?

Actually, Kyle Petty has a right to say this because, at the very least, he never had manufactured popularity.

Now, if DALE JUNIOR said this, I'd laugh my freaking ass off. He'd be the pot calling the kettle black, if anyone.

The Bestest: that's what I mean.. in Logano's first year, did you have so many people saying "he's not that good" and "he doesn't belong in Cup"?

He started in Sprint Cup when he was 18-19, so does that surprise you? Danica is a 31-year-old in her first full-time year, after one full-time year in Nationwide. She was never even spectacular in a very weak IndyCar field (though the cars are much more suited to her size/strength/weight), and she receives more hype than just about any driver out there. Why the hell should she get a free pass? She has had one for about ten freaking years.

The Bestest: Random Name Generator: Danica has had championship-caliber equipment and has done nothing with it. She had Rahal (when the Panoz was good), Andretti Autosport in Indycar and now JR Motorsports and SHR cars. What did Kyle Petty have? Other than decent SABCO equipment in the early 90s (if 1992 had a chase, Kyle Petty would have won), he raced for his dad's team which was his downfall, and also with the Wood Brothers in the 80s when they were starting their long way down to mid-pack. If Kyle raced for Hendrick or Roush, he would have easily had more wins.

She is a sex symbol and a marketing machine who uses her FHM and SI bikini shoots to her advantage. I don't think, say, Johanna Long would ever do a bikini shoot.

..because Smoke and Newman have just been tearin up the track this year, right? Again, why is so much expectation being pilled on a rookie?

It's still manufacturer equipment (from what I heard SHR has not gotten the trick shock packages right at all this year). Danica will always get expectation partially because she brings it onto herself with the GoDaddy ad campaigns, but also because Brian France-era NASCAR is about 100% marketing and very aero-dependent racing whereas the Big Bill eras and the Bill Jr. eras still had racing elements.

TheFark5000: Funny that women have to be perfect at everything.  Even if they are beating half the men, those men are still considered "real" while the woman is still "fake".

FTFA: 'The King' (Richard Petty) always had that stupid saying, but it's true, 'Lots of drivers can drive fast, but very few drivers can race.'

He wasn't singling her out as being uniquely fake. He was putting her in a category with a bunch of those drivers.

The Bestest: Clutch2013: Joey Logano, recently.  I'm going to be frank; he was pretty much middling until he moved to Penske (and even now, he's just slightly better).  Yes, he beat out Harvick at Pocono last year, but before that, his only other win was a rain-shortened New Hampshire event in '09, and his best points finish was in 2010 (16th).  But through his first two seasons, you couldn't get DW and a few others to shut up about him.  Did it ever reach Danica levels?  No.  But it was certainly memorable.

that's what I mean.. in Logano's first year, did you have so many people saying "he's not that good" and "he doesn't belong in Cup"?

Besides some of the other drivers?

mr_a: Pretty funny from a guy who drove a car with a giant Wells Fargo logo on the hood.

This to infinity and beyond.  Calling another driver (male or female) a marketing machine should have both the pot AND the kettle turning from their hue brouhaha and saying, "what the fark?"

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