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(Wired)   Scientists finding the region beyond the heliopause to be less boring than Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Still no sign of V-GER or a bald chick   (wired.com) divider line 55
    More: Interesting, heliosphere, interstellar medium, Voyager, outer planets, interstellar space, solar winds, magnetic fields, charged particles  
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2073 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Jun 2013 at 10:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-28 10:28:35 AM
Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.
 
2013-06-28 10:42:12 AM
"In some sense we have touched the intergalactic medium," Opher said, "but we're still inside the sun's house."

Whose house?  Sun's house!
 
2013-06-28 10:42:57 AM

simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.


All done with an unmanned appliance with the processing power of a PIC microcontroller and a few precision instruments. Almost as if that's the way to go if you want to explore a vacuum.
 
2013-06-28 10:46:01 AM
Nice to see science khambatting ignorance.

www.trekcore.com

/sees what you did there.
 
2013-06-28 10:50:46 AM

Valiente: Nice to see science khambatting ignorance.

[www.trekcore.com image 675x675]

/sees what you did there.


Elbow vagina.
Ǝlqoʍ ʌɐƃıuɐ
 
2013-06-28 10:54:18 AM

simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory hypothesis is disproved through careful observation, so work up a new one.


Yeah I know it is a small nit to pick, but a hypothesis and theory are not the same things and Christians, particularly when talking about evolution get that wrong every day. Evolution is a theory, because it has observable evidence. Creationism is a hypothesis, because there has been no evidence observed.
 
2013-06-28 11:03:28 AM
imgs.xkcd.com
From fark's favorite site xkcd
 
2013-06-28 11:03:51 AM
The author's use of supersonic and subsonic to describe the speeds involved made me stop reading it at wired, and find outher sources. Ridiculous
 
2013-06-28 11:04:40 AM
Farking science writers should learn some science.

FTFA:The sun produces a plasma of charged particles called the solar wind, which get blown supersonically from its atmosphere at more than 1 million km/h.

Supersonic = 1234.8 km/h
Speeding bullet = 648 km/h to 4392 km/h

And of course space being a vacuum it will not transmit sound so no supersonically.
 
2013-06-28 11:05:38 AM

sixfingers: The author's use of supersonic and subsonic to describe the speeds involved made me stop reading it at wired, and find outher sources. Ridiculous


Damn beat me by 49 seconds.
 
2013-06-28 11:06:49 AM

sixfingers: The author's use of supersonic and subsonic to describe the speeds involved made me stop reading it at wired, and find outher sources. Ridiculous


Yeah, I figured the first one was just derp-speak for "really fast", but the second use had me wondering "I wonder what these people think speed of sound in a vacuum actually is."
 
2013-06-28 11:10:48 AM

Slaves2Darkness: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory hypothesis is disproved through careful observation, so work up a new one.

Yeah I know it is a small nit to pick, but a hypothesis and theory are not the same things and Christians, particularly when talking about evolution get that wrong every day. Evolution is a theory, because it has observable evidence. Creationism is a hypothesis, because there has been no evidence observed.


Yeah, I know the difference. But commonly in discussion the term is always theory. Wrong, but that's the way things are often presented. This was a model based on a hypothesis. Either way, back to the drawing board.
 
2013-06-28 11:12:36 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.

All done with an unmanned appliance with the processing power of a PIC microcontroller and a few precision instruments. Almost as if that's the way to go if you want to explore a vacuum.


The beauty of simplicity is that there is less chance for something to go wrong..................

Like my stupid car, full of electronics and none of it works right half the time, I miss my old truck. You cranked up the windows with a handle, no digital crap, no ABS or Air bags, no EFI, and it ran for 18 years with regular oil changes and a few kicks to the wheels.
 
2013-06-28 11:14:14 AM

jonny_q: Valiente: Nice to see science khambatting ignorance.

[www.trekcore.com image 675x675]

/sees what you did there.

Elbow vagina.
Ǝlqoʍ ʌɐƃıuɐ


She must have Giraffe DNA, thats a neck designed for nibbling on your top branch.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-06-28 11:41:36 AM
Supersonic and subsonic have meaning in this context: relative to the speed of sound in the hot plasma. The words are probably oversimplifications in the region where Vger is now. Adding magnetic fields turns acoustic waves into "Alfven waves", which have two speeds depending how the pressure and magnetic fields are aligned.

Further reading: Introduction to Stellar Winds.
 
2013-06-28 11:50:51 AM

ZAZ: Supersonic and subsonic have meaning in this context: relative to the speed of sound in the hot plasma. The words are probably oversimplifications in the region where Vger is now. Adding magnetic fields turns acoustic waves into "Alfven waves", which have two speeds depending how the pressure and magnetic fields are aligned.

Further reading: Introduction to Stellar Winds.


I don't know what a "Z" is, but 106 seems like a lot.
 
2013-06-28 12:05:07 PM
freddyo.com
 
2013-06-28 12:24:28 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.

All done with an unmanned appliance with the processing power of a PIC microcontroller and a few precision instruments. Almost as if that's the way to go if you want to explore a vacuum.


I think the reason you don't like the idea of manned space exploration is you realize you'd probably be the first person to be pushed out of an airlock.
 
2013-06-28 12:38:02 PM

sinanju: Quantum Apostrophe: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.

All done with an unmanned appliance with the processing power of a PIC microcontroller and a few precision instruments. Almost as if that's the way to go if you want to explore a vacuum.

I think the reason you don't like the idea of manned space exploration is you realize you'd probably be the first person to be pushed out of an airlock.


Sure, I'd rather go quickly than disintegrate slowly in a cramped tin can while dying of radiation poisoning just to get to an airless dead hostile rock. Hell, I'd probably jump out myself just to get away from the doom and gloom of the Space Nutter religious services.
 
2013-06-28 12:51:21 PM

ZAZ: Supersonic and subsonic have meaning in this context: relative to the speed of sound in the hot plasma. The words are probably oversimplifications in the region where Vger is now. Adding magnetic fields turns acoustic waves into "Alfven waves", which have two speeds depending how the pressure and magnetic fields are aligned.

Further reading: Introduction to Stellar Winds.


Then again, simply mentioning the winds move at about 10% the speed of light should have been a sufficient enough descriptor without using terms non-astrophysicists commonly associated with sound moving through air.
 
2013-06-28 12:53:11 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: sinanju: Quantum Apostrophe: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.

All done with an unmanned appliance with the processing power of a PIC microcontroller and a few precision instruments. Almost as if that's the way to go if you want to explore a vacuum.

I think the reason you don't like the idea of manned space exploration is you realize you'd probably be the first person to be pushed out of an airlock.

Sure, I'd rather go quickly than disintegrate slowly in a cramped tin can while dying of radiation poisoning just to get to an airless dead hostile rock. Hell, I'd probably jump out myself just to get away from the doom and gloom of the Space Nutter religious services.


HE SPEAKS.  ALL WILL LISTEN.  HAIL TECHNOBEVETS.
 
2013-06-28 01:14:24 PM
Anybody else read Ringo and Taylor's Looking Glass series?  Passing the heliopause in an experimental warp-ship causes some interesting tidal effects.

There used to be a few of them up on Baen's Free Library but I don't think they're there at the moment.  Any Sci-fi / Fantasy fans need to check out the library if you haven't already, BTW.
 
2013-06-28 01:16:04 PM
farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2013-06-28 01:25:52 PM

Khellendros: Quantum Apostrophe: sinanju: Quantum Apostrophe: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.

All done with an unmanned appliance with the processing power of a PIC microcontroller and a few precision instruments. Almost as if that's the way to go if you want to explore a vacuum.

I think the reason you don't like the idea of manned space exploration is you realize you'd probably be the first person to be pushed out of an airlock.

Sure, I'd rather go quickly than disintegrate slowly in a cramped tin can while dying of radiation poisoning just to get to an airless dead hostile rock. Hell, I'd probably jump out myself just to get away from the doom and gloom of the Space Nutter religious services.

HE SPEAKS.  ALL WILL LISTEN.  HAIL TECHNOBEVETS.


NO. WE MUST TAKE SCI-FI AS PURE TRUTH.

ALL HAIL DAYDREAMS WRITTEN BY HACKS AS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH ABOUT THE SPECIES.

Can I get a space amen?
 
2013-06-28 01:37:09 PM
Persis Khambatta was one of the few women who were far sexier bald than she was when she had hair:

www.joebrightbooks.com

And she was damn attractive with hair:

farm5.static.flickr.com
 
2013-06-28 01:50:11 PM
I'm imagining what data sent back from a 36-year-old probe would look like: Morse code?
 
2013-06-28 01:53:50 PM
SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!

ST:TMP was perfectly cromulent. The most realistic and plausible of all Star Trek creations. That's why we engineers love it so....
 
2013-06-28 01:58:57 PM

OceanVortex: [imgs.xkcd.com image 180x231]
From fark's favorite site xkcd


I have come to the conclusion that xkcd is the duct tape of the Internet.

This is an interesting discovery.
 
2013-06-28 02:06:48 PM

Khellendros: HAIL TECHNOBEVETS


This is not an apt comparison.  QA may be obnoxious sometimes, and you may not like that he's a killjoy, but he's mostly correct about the practicality of humans in deep space.
 
2013-06-28 02:14:25 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Khellendros: Quantum Apostrophe: sinanju: Quantum Apostrophe: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory is disproved, so work up a new one.

All done with an unmanned appliance with the processing power of a PIC microcontroller and a few precision instruments. Almost as if that's the way to go if you want to explore a vacuum.

I think the reason you don't like the idea of manned space exploration is you realize you'd probably be the first person to be pushed out of an airlock.

Sure, I'd rather go quickly than disintegrate slowly in a cramped tin can while dying of radiation poisoning just to get to an airless dead hostile rock. Hell, I'd probably jump out myself just to get away from the doom and gloom of the Space Nutter religious services.

HE SPEAKS.  ALL WILL LISTEN.  HAIL TECHNOBEVETS.

NO. WE MUST TAKE SCI-FI AS PURE TRUTH.

ALL HAIL DAYDREAMS WRITTEN BY HACKS AS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH ABOUT THE SPECIES.

Can I get a space amen?


AMEN!

24.media.tumblr.com

"Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things."

/Take that to represent whatever side you want, but I would posit that science tries to fight that tendency. Sometimes some scientists don't, but the process moves regardless.
 
2013-06-28 02:44:06 PM

mark12A: SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!

ST:TMP was perfectly cromulent. The most realistic and plausible of all Star Trek creations. That's why we engineers love it so....


Granted it's been quite a while since I saw TMP, but I remember it being drier than white toast when I first saw it. I'll give it another shot when I get a chance.

/subby
//first green in a while... yay!
 
2013-06-28 03:17:48 PM

Zombalupagus: sixfingers: The author's use of supersonic and subsonic to describe the speeds involved made me stop reading it at wired, and find outher sources. Ridiculous

Yeah, I figured the first one was just derp-speak for "really fast", but the second use had me wondering "I wonder what these people think speed of sound in a vacuum actually is."


One hand clapping.
 
2013-06-28 03:19:03 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: /Take that to represent whatever side you want, but I would posit that science tries to fight that tendency. Sometimes some scientists don't, but the process moves regardless.


But you are still operating within the confines of reality. I would posit that simply writing "Warp drive" on a piece of paper doesn't make it so.

Otherwise we'd have underground steam locomotives that go across the Bering Strait, for example, and Mars would actually have 6 legged lions and pneumatic princesses on it, eh?

You can imagine anything you want, you can only build what is possible. And even then.
 
2013-06-28 03:31:10 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Leo Bloom's Freakout: /Take that to represent whatever side you want, but I would posit that science tries to fight that tendency. Sometimes some scientists don't, but the process moves regardless.

But you are still operating within the confines of reality. I would posit that simply writing "Warp drive" on a piece of paper doesn't make it so.

Otherwise we'd have underground steam locomotives that go across the Bering Strait, for example, and Mars would actually have 6 legged lions and pneumatic princesses on it, eh?

You can imagine anything you want, you can only build what is possible. And even then.


Will we be travelling anywhere in the near future (next 20 years or so, let's say? No. Incremental enabling technologies are being explored for propulsion, radiation shielding, closed biosystems, etc. Warp Drive, especially the one about shrinking space in front of the ship while expanding it behind sounds good on paper, but will probably require Guild Navigators.
 
2013-06-28 03:31:24 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Leo Bloom's Freakout: /Take that to represent whatever side you want, but I would posit that science tries to fight that tendency. Sometimes some scientists don't, but the process moves regardless.

But you are still operating within the confines of reality. I would posit that simply writing "Warp drive" on a piece of paper doesn't make it so.

Otherwise we'd have underground steam locomotives that go across the Bering Strait, for example, and Mars would actually have 6 legged lions and pneumatic princesses on it, eh?

You can imagine anything you want, you can only build what is possible. And even then.


spanish.lem.pl
Hmmm?
 
2013-06-28 03:31:41 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Leo Bloom's Freakout: /Take that to represent whatever side you want, but I would posit that science tries to fight that tendency. Sometimes some scientists don't, but the process moves regardless.

But you are still operating within the confines of reality. I would posit that simply writing "Warp drive" on a piece of paper doesn't make it so.

Otherwise we'd have underground steam locomotives that go across the Bering Strait, for example, and Mars would actually have 6 legged lions and pneumatic princesses on it, eh?

You can imagine anything you want, you can only build what is possible. And even then.


But doesn't what you build often have to start as a seed born of imagination? I mean, maybe it begins as a simple extension of existing technology taken to the next logical step, but sometimes it is a little more daring and built on a few layers of previously unproven ideas.

Moreso, I think  we have to start with the imagination, but if we don't find Woola or the incomparable Dejah Thoris upon observation, then mechanisms designed around using an Apt as the power source for our colony need to be reworked.

In the same sense, if we want to consider building long-term space exploration vehicles, we start with what we expect to be the case, and as we get better tools to measure what happens out there, then we readjust and rework them to conform to the newly understood reality. We don't give up on exploring Mars entirely, we just leave the long swords at home and bring extra water reclamation systems instead.

/Tars Tarkus FTW!
 
2013-06-28 03:45:02 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: But doesn't what you build often have to start as a seed born of imagination?


OK, but that doesn't mean that anything you can imagine will be built because it happened once before.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: In the same sense, if we want to consider building long-term space exploration vehicles, we start with what we expect to be the case, and as we get better tools to measure what happens out there, then we readjust and rework them to conform to the newly understood reality. We don't give up on exploring Mars entirely, we just leave the long swords at home and bring extra water reclamation systems instead.


We already send machines there. We have pictures since decades. What is left to explore? Do we need a picture of every grain of sand on a beach to know what the weather is like?

It doesn't matter anymore how many pictures of dead rocks on Mars you can take or at what resolution. It's a dead rock. We know that. There's no point in sending people with anything remotely resembling real technology, except as a one-time, incredibly expensive stunt.

No one will live there, water-reclamation or not. It's not a question of one or two improvements here and there, everything is fundamentally stacked against you. Everything.

People seem to ascribe all kinds of mystical and emotional reasons to "get off this rock", but as I found out, people who believe that are mentally ill.
 
2013-06-28 04:01:53 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Leo Bloom's Freakout: In the same sense, if we want to consider building long-term space exploration vehicles, we start with what we expect to be the case, and as we get better tools to measure what happens out there, then we readjust and rework them to conform to the newly understood reality. We don't give up on exploring Mars entirely, we just leave the long swords at home and bring extra water reclamation systems instead.

We already send machines there. We have pictures since decades. What is left to explore? Do we need a picture of every grain of sand on a beach to know what the weather is like?

It doesn't matter anymore how many pictures of dead rocks on Mars you can take or at what resolution. It's a dead rock. We know that. There's no point in sending people with anything remotely resembling real technology, except as a one-time, incredibly expensive stunt.

No one will live there, water-reclamation or not. It's not a question of one or two improvements here and there, everything is fundamentally stacked against you. Everything.

People seem to ascribe all kinds of mystical and emotional reasons to "get off this rock", but as I found out, people who believe that are mentally ill.


There's a fair sensibility to that. I mean, we probably could find out everything we learned from the lunar missions from modern technology. Aside from the aspect of what it "feels like" to be an astronaut on the moon watching an Earthrise, but that's an intangible in many ways, Something best left to poetry and the expense is great in obtaining that.

I tend to be of the mind that the experiences, the poetry, and the lessons learned from the process of a Mars trip would be of great value, but the monetary investment for a government is hard to justify when we have a lot of troubles here that need addressing. I don't know with a high level of confidence that the lessons from Mars or beyond would translate to Earth so much as learning to fix our environment now would be beneficial to future space trips.

However, I would love to see it pursued by companies like Virgin Galactic and the such. Entrepreneurs and individuals motivated by the same spirit as Sir Edmund Hilary. "Why did we go to Mars? Because it is there." Perhaps some scientific equipment or personnel could ride on the coattails there, but I get your argument. I don't want it to be the practical answer, but given where we are now, I tend to concede that it is.
 
2013-06-28 04:05:35 PM
Quantum Apostrophe:

We already send machines there. We have pictures since decades. What is left to explore? Do we need a picture of every grain of sand on a beach to know what the weather is like?

Yup.  We should have just stopped in the 4th century BC when Ecclesiastes clearly documented that there was nothing new under the sun
 
2013-06-28 04:06:16 PM

OceanVortex: [imgs.xkcd.com image 180x231]
From fark's favorite site xkcd


Yeah but it just goes to show you how little we really know about where the damn door is. Its like we open the front door and their is a sitting room, we open the sitting room door and there is a mud room.  Its not like being that far out isn't damned impressive in its own right. Eventually it will get out
 
2013-06-28 04:16:46 PM

sinanju: Quantum Apostrophe:

We already send machines there. We have pictures since decades. What is left to explore? Do we need a picture of every grain of sand on a beach to know what the weather is like?

Yup.  We should have just stopped in the 4th century BC when Ecclesiastes clearly documented that there was nothing new under the sun


Here's where I will say QA has a point. He is not talking about a Bronze Age philosopher waxing on the concept that everything's just an iteration of an earlier idea (a concept that appropriately comes back in it's own right: see Complexity Theory). We have analyzed giant swaths of the visible universe, we have taken HD pictures of many local phenomenon and objects, and it is getting granular in what we need to know next in terms of expanding our base knowledge.

As such, the expense goes up dramatically for diminishing returns in terms of what we get back. We answer smaller and smaller questions with bigger, more expensive pieces of hardware. As a lover of knowledge, I have little problem with this conceptually, and can see few better places to use our money. I think every undiscovered phenomenon has potential to unlock a mystery that could be societally revolutionary. However, I also understand that large portions of society don't share that desire and are concerned with more immediate problems that stand only a small chance of actually being impacted by these expenditures.

I love the updates every time Voyager encounters something new, and see it as a testament to how well we can build something. I just tend to think space exploration, in the short-term is probably going to be the domain of private explorers until a cost-benefit can be drawn up to encourage public investment on a large scale again. It sucks, but if I learned anything from the scientific method, a disproven theory is only a setback for as long as it takes to see a new way of approaching the problem.
 
2013-06-28 04:18:11 PM

Leo Bloom's Freakout: I tend to be of the mind that the experiences, the poetry, and the lessons learned from the process of a Mars trip would be of great value


I think that the experiences, the poetry, and the lessons learned from a much longer lifespan would be of a much greater value for each and every one of us.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: However, I would love to see it pursued by companies like Virgin Galactic and the such


With such a grandiose name, you can't talk seriously about outfits like this. I realize that "Virgin 10 Minute Sub Orbital Thrill Ride" is far too long to paint on a 60 foot tin can.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: Entrepreneurs and individuals motivated by the same spirit as Sir Edmund Hilary.


How many restaurants are at the South Pole? Remind me?

Leo Bloom's Freakout: "Why did we go to Mars? Because it is there."


Does that mean anything beyond that? OK, the center of the Earth is "there" too, you know. Grab a shovel!

I really think people ascribe religious and spiritual values to an empty vacuum. That says more about people than it does about any hope of practical manned space exploration beyond LEO. (If we can even call going to LEO "exploration". It's such a loaded word filled with romantic notions and colonial imagery.)

For me, the ISS is an adult tree-house that countries use as political leverage. Nothing more. It has zero scientific value. None.

And manned space "exploration" beyond LEO? Well, space is enormous, it's empty, it's deadly, dead and hostile. What can you do? Besides the symbolism, it has no value.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: I don't want it to be the practical answer, but given where we are now, I tend to concede that it is.


Eh, what can you do? Might as well make better living arrangements right here, because it looks like that's all we're getting. Deluding ourselves that "business as usual" will just keep going, but in space, is the chicken's way out.

When your house is burning, you don't fantasize about Star Trek energy fields extinguishing the fire, you call 911.

When your social model is impractical in the long term, you change it. You don't plan on leaving the only planet you have.
 
2013-06-28 04:42:53 PM

sixfingers: The author's use of supersonic and subsonic to describe the speeds involved made me stop reading it at wired, and find outher sources. Ridiculous


pdee: Farking science writers should learn some science.


Actually guys, like ZAZ pointed out, sub/supersonic are very important terms in space physics! The 'sound barrier' is different in every medium, and outer space is far from a perfect vacuum. It's a really thin plasma. Our solar system's edge (the heliopause) is defined as where the pressure of the material the sun is constantly belching out (solar wind) is equal to the ambient interstellar pressure.

The author's use of the word supersonic is superfluous for the lay reader. But read on if you're interested in why supersonic matters.

The sound barrier is the speed in which a medium can naturally flow. Move your hand through a pond and you can see the water move much faster as ripples race ahead. At supersonic speeds, the fluid can't travel ahead of you any more. This causes all types of really complicated and interesting effects like showckwaves. Studying supersonic fluid effects is a very vibrant field of study with a really wide range of applications.

In the case of our solar system, the solar wind speed is super sonic relative to the local galactic medium. The resulting shock wave (which Voyager may finally be exiting) protects the solar systems from all sorts of exotic particles and radiation. We know so little about the specifics of this exotic shock and what it means to the behavior of the cosmos. Now, we're getting our first glimpse with Voyager and finding that the details are quite different from what we predicted.
 
2013-06-28 04:46:57 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Leo Bloom's Freakout: I tend to be of the mind that the experiences, the poetry, and the lessons learned from the process of a Mars trip would be of great value

I think that the experiences, the poetry, and the lessons learned from a much longer lifespan would be of a much greater value for each and every one of us.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: However, I would love to see it pursued by companies like Virgin Galactic and the such

With such a grandiose name, you can't talk seriously about outfits like this. I realize that "Virgin 10 Minute Sub Orbital Thrill Ride" is far too long to paint on a 60 foot tin can.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: Entrepreneurs and individuals motivated by the same spirit as Sir Edmund Hilary.

How many restaurants are at the South Pole? Remind me?

Leo Bloom's Freakout: "Why did we go to Mars? Because it is there."

Does that mean anything beyond that? OK, the center of the Earth is "there" too, you know. Grab a shovel!

I really think people ascribe religious and spiritual values to an empty vacuum. That says more about people than it does about any hope of practical manned space exploration beyond LEO. (If we can even call going to LEO "exploration". It's such a loaded word filled with romantic notions and colonial imagery.)

For me, the ISS is an adult tree-house that countries use as political leverage. Nothing more. It has zero scientific value. None.

And manned space "exploration" beyond LEO? Well, space is enormous, it's empty, it's deadly, dead and hostile. What can you do? Besides the symbolism, it has no value.

Leo Bloom's Freakout: I don't want it to be the practical answer, but given where we are now, I tend to concede that it is.

Eh, what can you do? Might as well make better living arrangements right here, because it looks like that's all we're getting. Deluding ourselves that "business as usual" will just keep going, but in space, is the chicken's way out.

When your house is burning, you don't fantasize about Star Trek energy fields ...


I think as we get a better grasp of the absolutely vast scale of the universe, and even our local solar system, you're right that we cannot feasibly dedicate resources to further detailed investigation of it right now. We know enough to keep most of the big stuff from killing us for the most part. So, to follow your metaphor of the burning house, I think we should work on putting out our house fire and get our existing planet reasonably in order. Just like you put the house back together afterwards before you consider the next experiment, or before you start shopping for a new home.

However, I wouldn't want us to stop dreaming about the force fields as an ideal. It is very difficult to get anywhere new that we don't first imagine going. Space may seem dead, but as we've found, deeper looks at seemingly uninteresting portions of our own planet have shown life and detail we would have overlooked if we stopped with previously held convention. With current technology there are so many "unexplored" areas of existence, from the subatomic world to neuroscience to astrophysics, and we will have to be judicious in what we fund societally and what comes from private sources.
 
2013-06-28 05:20:00 PM
 Why go to Mars? It's out biological imperative. Our duty as humans is to "go forth, be fruitful, and multiply," to expand and populate as far and fast as possible. It's the primary task of all living things. It's what we were made to do. Life is, as far as we know,  incredibly rare in the universe. We need to spread life and humanity as much as possible before a disease or an asteroid or our own stupidity erase it from existence. You don't put all your eggs in one basket.


 Also, I love Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I think the Enterprise is the most beautiful thing in all of science fiction and most of that movie is just long shots of her being sexy in space. And the soundtrack is cool.
 
2013-06-28 05:21:44 PM
i220.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-28 07:03:24 PM

Slaves2Darkness: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory hypothesis is disproved through careful observation, so work up a new one.

Yeah I know it is a small nit to pick, but a hypothesis and theory are not the same things and Christians, particularly when talking about evolution get that wrong every day. Evolution is a theory, because it has observable evidence. Creationism is a hypothesis

an assertion, because there has been no evidence observed.

FTFY
 
2013-06-28 07:51:12 PM

Diagonal: Slaves2Darkness: simplicimus: Well, that's science. One theory hypothesis is disproved through careful observation, so work up a new one.

Yeah I know it is a small nit to pick, but a hypothesis and theory are not the same things and Christians, particularly when talking about evolution get that wrong every day. Evolution is a theory, because it has observable evidence. Creationism is a hypothesis an assertion, because there has been no evidence observed.

FTFY


You missed a spot. Evolution is not a theory at all, it is an observed phenomenon, like gravity. The theories are what we have to explain those phenomenon, with Natural Selection being the currently best tested theory for explaining the process of evolution.
 
2013-06-28 07:52:31 PM
Dammit, phenomena.

/do doo dododo
//phenomena
///do dodo doo
 
2013-06-28 09:34:10 PM

sixfingers: The author's use of supersonic and subsonic to describe the speeds involved made me stop reading it at wired, and find outher sources. Ridiculous


In Space Physics, supersonic and subsonic are used to describe speeds faster and slower than compressional (rather than transverse) plasma waves. The description is correct - just not what the reporter and most readers think it is.
 
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