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(Huffington Post)   Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 486
    More: Interesting, humans, Reform Act, Senate, Ted Kennedy, John Hoeven, Bob Menendez, Judiciary Committee, lower house  
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3550 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jun 2013 at 5:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



486 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-27 04:48:08 PM
you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.
 
2013-06-27 04:48:41 PM
"The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes," Boehner told reporters at a press conference. "For any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the House, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members," he added later, referring to Republicans."

Yay, Hastert Rule!
 
2013-06-27 04:49:10 PM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


Indeed. They've threatened to shiatcan Boehner if he even brings it up for a vote.
 
2013-06-27 04:54:12 PM
Also, may I present the few reasonable Republicans left:

fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-06-27 05:02:57 PM

make me some tea: the few reasonable Republicans left:


Yeah, those are mostly the sane moderates.
 
2013-06-27 05:06:41 PM
 
2013-06-27 05:07:04 PM
Ain't got a snowball's chance in Hell of getting through the House.
 
2013-06-27 05:07:14 PM
Yeah, when this gets to the House, things will be messier than the bathroom at an Indian restaurant.
 
2013-06-27 05:07:38 PM

vernonFL: make me some tea: the few reasonable Republicans left:

Yeah, those are mostly the sane moderates.


Mostly the mostly sane moderates.
 
2013-06-27 05:07:48 PM

vernonFL: make me some tea: the few reasonable Republicans left:

Yeah, those are mostly the sane moderates.


And one maverick
 
2013-06-27 05:08:22 PM
It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?
 
2013-06-27 05:09:02 PM
So Boehner where is the house bill on immigration that house republicans will vote for so everyone can read it? Or is this just another whine, cry and blame the other side session?

At some point the media needs to call politicians out for this kind of behavior.
 
2013-06-27 05:09:26 PM
media.salon.com

Boehner: I need a drink.
 
2013-06-27 05:10:18 PM

Mike Chewbacca: "The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes," Boehner told reporters at a press conference. "For any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the House, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members," he added later, referring to Republicans."

Yay, Hastert Rule!


didn't boehner ignore that rule out recently to pass something?
 
2013-06-27 05:10:28 PM

Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?


It could pass the House with the vast majority Democrats and a relatively small number of Republicans voting for it. And it probably would pass right now.

But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.
 
2013-06-27 05:10:54 PM
Immigration Reform Is Driving Republicans Insane
"Democrats are fighting to pass a bill because it's the right thing to do, even though they'll probably take an electoral hit from it. Republicans are fighting to kill a bill, even though it would be an electoral winner, because a small part of their base hates it. It's basically electoral suicide because they simply can't get out from under the tea party elephant that's strangling the life out of them. They built a monster, and now it's turned on them." -- Kevin Drum
 
2013-06-27 05:11:44 PM

Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?


no - but republicans have the majority. HOUSE republicans. they're mostly rabid teabaggers whose constituents hate brown people with a passion. so they'll kill it, lest they be primaried in 2014.
 
2013-06-27 05:12:17 PM
So keeping in mind that I haven't been paying attention at all:

How good is the bill?  How carefully does it walk the line between moral hazard and "It's physically impossible to ship them all back, so we might as well live with them"?

Also, did they at least assign H-1B visas to the person receiving the visa instead of the company sponsoring it?  (Because that's really the thing driving the rise of H-1B's.  It's 21st century corporate slavery.)
 
2013-06-27 05:13:08 PM

FlashHarry: Mike Chewbacca: "The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes," Boehner told reporters at a press conference. "For any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the House, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members," he added later, referring to Republicans."

Yay, Hastert Rule!

didn't boehner ignore that rule out recently to pass something?


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/06/conservatives-threaten-de po se-boehner-hastert-rule-immigration.php

GOP leaders have this year brought up four bills without the support of most House Republicans - including legislation to avert the fiscal cliff, provide aid to Hurricane Sandy victims and reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act.

The fact that those bills didn't get the majority support from House GOP is depressing on multiple levels.
 
2013-06-27 05:13:16 PM
meh, if it wasn't filled with pork, i'd have no problems passing it........but it is our congress and nothing passes both houses unless its full of "what can it do for me" filling.


/did they vote on it without reading it again?
//i weep for the huge manatee
///some smartash should add that all current memebers of congress and the president, vice president resign office and never run for office again if this bill passes
////bet they start reading bills after that
 
2013-06-27 05:13:17 PM

seventypercent: But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.


Boehner: bad Speaker of the House or Worst Speaker of the House?
 
2013-06-27 05:13:34 PM
It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.
 
2013-06-27 05:13:42 PM
Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?
 
2013-06-27 05:14:10 PM

Team Nemesis: ///some smartash should add that all current memebers of congress and the president, vice president resign office and never run for office again if this bill passes


What are you blathering on about here?
 
2013-06-27 05:14:21 PM

StopLurkListen: Immigration Reform Is Driving Republicans Insane
"Democrats are fighting to pass a bill because it's the right thing to do, even though they'll probably take an electoral hit from it. Republicans are fighting to kill a bill, even though it would be an electoral winner, because a small part of their base hates it. It's basically electoral suicide because they simply can't get out from under the tea party elephant that's strangling the life out of them. They built a monster, and now it's turned on them." -- Kevin Drum


democrats: country before party
republicans: party before country

that's all you really need to know.
 
2013-06-27 05:15:15 PM
One thing that Democrats and Republicans were arguing over was rights for gay immigrants.

Democrats wanted gay immigrants to have, um, human rights and Republicans didn't.

The Supreme Court decision overturning DOMA made the whole thing moot.
 
2013-06-27 05:15:16 PM

I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?


RETROACTIVE GAY ABORTIONS.
 
2013-06-27 05:15:20 PM

theorellior: Boehner: bad Speaker of the House or Worst Speaker of the House?


certainly the weakest in recent memory. though pelosi - one of the strongest - is a tough act to follow.
 
2013-06-27 05:15:20 PM

I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?


Force them to gay marry and perform 1,000 hours of community service as Boyscout Troop Leaders.
 
2013-06-27 05:15:30 PM

FlashHarry: Mike Chewbacca: "The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes," Boehner told reporters at a press conference. "For any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the House, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members," he added later, referring to Republicans."

Yay, Hastert Rule!

didn't boehner ignore that rule out recently to pass something?


Yes, but he just said in the quote above that he's going to abide by it.
 
2013-06-27 05:16:22 PM
Adios and R.I.P.
 
2013-06-27 05:16:41 PM
Off to be made extinct by dinosaurs
 
2013-06-27 05:17:34 PM

I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?


A good troll is about nuance and riding that Godwin line.

This is just a sad sad cry for attention.
 
2013-06-27 05:17:37 PM

theorellior: RETROACTIVE GAY ABORTIONS.


ooh - or they could perform abortions! there's certainly a lack of providers these days - especially of the late-term variety!
 
2013-06-27 05:18:02 PM

seventypercent: Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

It could pass the House with the vast majority Democrats and a relatively small number of Republicans voting for it. And it probably would pass right now.

But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.


He can just unilaterally keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it? That would be pretty silly.
 
2013-06-27 05:19:18 PM

theorellior: Boehner: bad Speaker of the House or Worst Speaker of the House?


He's also terrible at backgammon and chess. According to the Wall Street Journal, he tries to move his knights as if they were rooks.
 
2013-06-27 05:19:52 PM
If the House passes a bill, it will include some poison pill like, "None of the above apply until the President certifies that our borders are 100% sealed against immigration".

Today's vote means nothing.
 
2013-06-27 05:20:27 PM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


All us libby libs (by which I mean, those of us in the reality-based community) should definitely call our Derpublican representatives and urge them to vote against Reagan-style Amnesty.
 
2013-06-27 05:20:32 PM

Biological Ali: keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it?


Yeah but in this case, the majority from his party wouldn't vote for it - its a stupid thing called the "Hastert rule" which isn't even a rule.
 
2013-06-27 05:20:50 PM

Biological Ali: seventypercent: Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

It could pass the House with the vast majority Democrats and a relatively small number of Republicans voting for it. And it probably would pass right now.

But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.

He can just unilaterally keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it? That would be pretty silly.


It's the way the House works, the leader of the party in control sets the voting agenda.  The minority can't force him to take up issues he doesn't want to.
 
2013-06-27 05:21:42 PM

Biological Ali: He can just unilaterally keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it? That would be pretty silly.


Yep. He's the speaker. And the leadership of the party in charge gets to set the legislative agenda.

He's brought several other bills this year without the support of a majority of the GOP members (and taken a lot of heat for it) but he's specifically said that he will not do that for this bill.
 
2013-06-27 05:21:56 PM

MightyPez: I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?

A good troll is about nuance and riding that Godwin line.

This is just a sad sad cry for attention.


Seriously, you can't even answer my question, instead you just pawn me off a weak troll and spout some made up trolling rules.

I asked a legitimate question and you refuse to answer it because you are either too stupid or incapable.  I have to assume the former in this case.
 
2013-06-27 05:21:57 PM

meyerkev: Also, did they at least assign H-1B visas to the person receiving the visa instead of the company sponsoring it?  (Because that's really the thing driving the rise of H-1B's.  It's 21st century corporate slavery.)


All my H-1B employees and their 100k+ salaries would disagree with you.  The US sucks at training engineers.
 
2013-06-27 05:22:48 PM
At least those senators have protected their phoney baloney jobs.
 
2013-06-27 05:23:23 PM

Biological Ali: seventypercent: Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

It could pass the House with the vast majority Democrats and a relatively small number of Republicans voting for it. And it probably would pass right now.

But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.

He can just unilaterally keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it? That would be pretty silly.


Yes, that's pretty much his job as Speaker. If he says no vote, no vote.
 
2013-06-27 05:24:04 PM

I HATE LIBS: MightyPez: I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?

A good troll is about nuance and riding that Godwin line.

This is just a sad sad cry for attention.

Seriously, you can't even answer my question, instead you just pawn me off a weak troll and spout some made up trolling rules.

I asked a legitimate question and you refuse to answer it because you are either too stupid or incapable.  I have to assume the former in this case.


Okay, dude, you're clearly going for Poe's Law but it's not working. Just retire this account, mkay?
 
2013-06-27 05:24:30 PM
Discharge Petition. Are there 17 GOPers in the House who will come on board?
 
2013-06-27 05:24:36 PM

I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?


The Castro is known for its illegal population?
 
2013-06-27 05:24:47 PM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


Ah, Fark liberals. It's amazing how much you venerate putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!"

This bill is truly an landmark. Nothing lie it's ever been done. It's not even a little like the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 . And it definately won't end up the same way, encouraging even more illegal immigration and the attendant social problems. Nope, not this time.
 
2013-06-27 05:25:48 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Okay, dude, you're clearly going for Poe's Law but it's not working. Just retire this account, mkay?


I farkied him as "Lame" the very first thread I ever saw him in and I've seen nothing to change my opinion. Whoever controls that account really sucks at this game.
 
2013-06-27 05:27:29 PM

answer the question liberals.

what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?
 
2013-06-27 05:27:33 PM
It had wise bi-partisan support in the senate = Can't pass the house.

Welcome to the GOP house that can't do shiat!!!
 
2013-06-27 05:27:45 PM

gingerjet: The US sucks at training engineers.


yes, well that requires science, and we hate science here.
 
2013-06-27 05:28:17 PM

Mrtraveler01: I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?

The Castro is known for its illegal population?


You can tell this guy has never been to the Castro. It has some of the cleanest, well dressed streets in San Francisco.
 
2013-06-27 05:28:18 PM

Carousel Beast: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Ah, Fark liberals. It's amazing how much you venerate putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!"

This bill is truly an landmark. Nothing lie it's ever been done. It's not even a little like the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 . And it definately won't end up the same way, encouraging even more illegal immigration and the attendant social problems. Nope, not this time.


Don't you fret, your boys in the House will kill it. Such an outcome serves us fine, politically.

But hey, maybe people will come around to the "self deportation" scheme.
 
2013-06-27 05:28:38 PM

I HATE LIBS: what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?


They get indefinite work permits and as long as they don't commit crimes and they pay taxes, they can stay.
 
2013-06-27 05:28:40 PM

Mike Chewbacca: I HATE LIBS: MightyPez: I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?

A good troll is about nuance and riding that Godwin line.

This is just a sad sad cry for attention.

Seriously, you can't even answer my question, instead you just pawn me off a weak troll and spout some made up trolling rules.

I asked a legitimate question and you refuse to answer it because you are either too stupid or incapable.  I have to assume the former in this case.

Okay, dude, you're clearly going for Poe's Law but it's not working. Just retire this account, mkay?


They are so cute at this age, right? Like watching pee-wee hockey. They spend most of the time gliding around on their asses and sometimes a puck accidentally goes into a net.
 
2013-06-27 05:29:27 PM

I HATE LIBS: answer the question liberals.

what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?


If they chose to remain legal residents without moving on to citizenship, we let them.
 
2013-06-27 05:29:32 PM

I HATE LIBS: answer the question liberals.

what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?


Hire them as cheap labor to build the border fence.
 
2013-06-27 05:29:38 PM

I HATE LIBS: instead you just pawn me off a weak troll


" I am a serious user who craves attention so much that I will say and so anything to be against what you're against."

Yep. Weak troll.
 
2013-06-27 05:29:56 PM
It's time to watch how incompetent Bohner and the house GOP are!!!
i.imgur.com
 
2013-06-27 05:31:00 PM

I HATE LIBS: answer the question liberals.

what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?


Your false dilema is repetitive.

They could get Green cards, they can get deported, they can leave on their own based on difficulty to get work.
 
2013-06-27 05:31:06 PM
BUILD THE GODDAMM WALL!!

Goddamm we are screwed. The Democrats want to throw the doors wide open to the invading FOREIGNERS so they'll become citzens and vote Democratic and keep them in power, and the Republicans want to keep the doors wide open so their corporate buddies will have a cheap pool of slave labor to exploit. Meanwhile a Holocaust is going on in American cities as American minorities are at each others throats because they have no jobs and no future. Corporate America is busy dismantling the American middle class to make society more pliable to their corporate needs, and Illegals are basically strikebreakers, here to push wages down. The Washington political class as a whole are the most traitorus scum in American history.

EVERY single Senator who voted for this are traitors. They do not have the best interests of this country in mind, just their own interests.
 
2013-06-27 05:31:23 PM

Carousel Beast: Ah, Fark liberals. It's amazing how much you venerate putting your fingers in your ears


OK, Mrs. Malaprop, I give up - what word were you going for? Because "venerate" wasn't it.
 
2013-06-27 05:31:36 PM

vernonFL: Biological Ali: keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it?

Yeah but in this case, the majority from his party wouldn't vote for it - its a stupid thing called the "Hastert rule" which isn't even a rule.


I had no clue about the "Hastert Rule", so I did a quick Wiki and then slammed my head into the desk.

What a complete crock of shiat. If a bill has the votes, it should be voted on, period.

Figures it is named after a Reptilzican.
 
2013-06-27 05:31:37 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Mike Chewbacca: Okay, dude, you're clearly going for Poe's Law but it's not working. Just retire this account, mkay?

I farkied him as "Lame" the very first thread I ever saw him in and I've seen nothing to change my opinion. Whoever controls that account really sucks at this game.


Wait. This is a game? Damn. What are the achievements? I love achievements. Oh, and the "you must spam 20 friends" stuff. I know! This is a multi-player-online-social-trolling-media-game! I love those!
 
2013-06-27 05:31:46 PM

vernonFL: I HATE LIBS: what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?

They get indefinite work permits and as long as they don't commit crimes and they pay taxes, they can stay.



Hallelujah. Finally someone can read.

So you support a method which will put overpopulation into overdrive then?  Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.
 
2013-06-27 05:32:32 PM

gingerjet: All my H-1B employees and their 100k+ salaries would disagree with you. The US sucks at training engineers.


Maybe you just didn't look hard enough?
 
2013-06-27 05:32:43 PM

Biological Ali: seventypercent: Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

It could pass the House with the vast majority Democrats and a relatively small number of Republicans voting for it. And it probably would pass right now.

But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.

He can just unilaterally keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it? That would be pretty silly.


Indeed he can; from what I understand, the schedule is almost entirely at the Speaker's discretion.
 
2013-06-27 05:32:45 PM

mark12A: BUILD THE GODDAMM WALL!!

Goddamm we are screwed. The Democrats want to throw the doors wide open to the invading FOREIGNERS so they'll become citzens and vote Democratic and keep them in power, and the Republicans want to keep the doors wide open so their corporate buddies will have a cheap pool of slave labor to exploit. Meanwhile a Holocaust is going on in American cities as American minorities are at each others throats because they have no jobs and no future. Corporate America is busy dismantling the American middle class to make society more pliable to their corporate needs, and Illegals are basically strikebreakers, here to push wages down. The Washington political class as a whole are the most traitorus scum in American history.

EVERY single Senator who voted for this are traitors. They do not have the best interests of this country in mind, just their own interests.


I'm having trouble finding the word search here.
 
2013-06-27 05:32:52 PM

I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?


We'll probably keep paying most of them significantly lower than minimum wage under the table all while expecting them to pay taxes but still be treated as sub-human or at least second class citizens.  Oh, and we'll let them vote as often as they want with out any identification and jump ahead of everyone in line at the ER.  I heard that's a thing now because, you know, Obama.
 
2013-06-27 05:33:11 PM

mark12A: BUILD THE GODDAMM WALL!!

Goddamm we are screwed. The Democrats want to throw the doors wide open to the invading FOREIGNERS so they'll become citzens and vote Democratic and keep them in power, and the Republicans want to keep the doors wide open so their corporate buddies will have a cheap pool of slave labor to exploit. Meanwhile a Holocaust is going on in American cities as American minorities are at each others throats because they have no jobs and no future. Corporate America is busy dismantling the American middle class to make society more pliable to their corporate needs, and Illegals are basically strikebreakers, here to push wages down. The Washington political class as a whole are the most traitorus scum in American history.

EVERY single Senator who voted for this are traitors. They do not have the best interests of this country in mind, just their own interests.


7/10. pretty good. i liked the all caps bit.
 
2013-06-27 05:33:40 PM

mark12A: EVERY single Senator who voted for this are traitors. They do not have the best interests of this country in mind, just their own interests.


You make me smile. Seriously, your rage puts a song on my lips and a spring to my step. Thanks for the day-brightener!
 
2013-06-27 05:33:52 PM

StopLurkListen: A Dark Evil Omen: Mike Chewbacca: Okay, dude, you're clearly going for Poe's Law but it's not working. Just retire this account, mkay?

I farkied him as "Lame" the very first thread I ever saw him in and I've seen nothing to change my opinion. Whoever controls that account really sucks at this game.

Wait. This is a game? Damn. What are the achievements? I love achievements. Oh, and the "you must spam 20 friends" stuff. I know! This is a multi-player-online-social-trolling-media-game! I love those!


It's like Farmville, except instead of annoying your friends on Facebook with spammy posts asking for more Farmbux or whatever, you annoy strangers by saying idiotic things in public.
 
2013-06-27 05:34:15 PM

I HATE LIBS: vernonFL: I HATE LIBS: what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?

They get indefinite work permits and as long as they don't commit crimes and they pay taxes, they can stay.


Hallelujah. Finally someone can read.

So you support a method which will put overpopulation into overdrive then?  Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.


A) All predictions show the US is going to have a worker shortage in the future and the US population will dwindle without immigration

B) No one wants an uncontrolled influx of people your argument is a strawman.

You really make no sense.
 
2013-06-27 05:35:06 PM

theorellior: gingerjet: All my H-1B employees and their 100k+ salaries would disagree with you. The US sucks at training engineers.

Maybe you just didn't look hard enough?


Has he ever tried to just hire new engineering grads and train them the way you want them?

Maybe invest in them a bit and invest in American employment, as well?

Maybe give grads a reason to want to work hard and make it to your company when they graduate?
 
2013-06-27 05:35:15 PM

Carousel Beast: Ah, Fark liberals...


moot point. you guys will kill it anyway. which, politically, will be a boon for the democrats.

but they supported the bill, despite the fact that it was bad politically, because - get this - it was the right thing to do.
 
2013-06-27 05:35:32 PM
Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.
 
2013-06-27 05:35:33 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: I HATE LIBS: instead you just pawn me off a weak troll

" I am a serious user who craves attention so much that I will say and so anything to be against what you're against."

Yep. Weak troll.


I like how you completely ignore the rest of my profile.  Very convenient.  You're basically admitting to being part of the trolling conspiracy on this site by leaving out the important parts.  The only thing weak here is you.
 
2013-06-27 05:35:41 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: I'm having trouble finding the word search here.


At first I thought the theme was "Names that the Sex Pistols have given their genitalia", but I was wrong.
 
2013-06-27 05:36:06 PM

I HATE LIBS: So you support a method which will put overpopulation into overdrive then? Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.


Well no because the border would be more secure. Obviously we might have to revisit the issue if we get cruise ships full of thousands of Hatianss or something swimming over.
 
2013-06-27 05:36:17 PM

I HATE LIBS: vernonFL: I HATE LIBS: what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?

They get indefinite work permits and as long as they don't commit crimes and they pay taxes, they can stay.


Hallelujah. Finally someone can read.

So you support a method which will put overpopulation into overdrive then?  Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.


The CBO has run the numbers, it will actually mean more revenue for the US government not less. In fact the biggest problem is all the money we will be spending on troops on the border not the immigrants themselves. The immigrants will be a positive effect of the US economy and federal budget.
 
2013-06-27 05:36:17 PM
Look at the bright side.  The House debate will produce some hilarious GOP quotes.
 
2013-06-27 05:36:18 PM

mark12A: BUILD THE GODDAMM WALL!!

Goddamm we are screwed. The Democrats want to throw the doors wide open to the invading FOREIGNERS so they'll become citzens and vote cold as ice Democratic and keep them in power, and the Republicans want to urgent keep the doors wide open so their corporate buddies will have a cheap pool of slave labor to exploit. Meanwhile a Holocaust is going on in feels like the first time American cities as American minorities are at each others throats because they have no jobs and no future. Corporate America is busy dismantling the American middle class to make society more hot blooded pliable to their corporate needs, and Illegals are basically jukebox hero strikebreakers, here to push wages down. The Washington i want to know what love is political class as a whole are the most traitorus scum in American history.

EVERY single Senator who voted for this are traitors. They do not have the best interests of this country in mind, just their own interests.


Meh. Try harder.
 
2013-06-27 05:36:57 PM

I HATE LIBS: Noticeably F.A.T.: I HATE LIBS: instead you just pawn me off a weak troll

" I am a serious user who craves attention so much that I will say and so anything to be against what you're against."

Yep. Weak troll.

I like how you completely ignore the rest of my profile.  Very convenient.  You're basically admitting to being part of the trolling conspiracy on this site by leaving out the important parts.  The only thing weak here is you.


Your name is "I HATE LIBS" If people don't take you serious it;s mostly your fault.
 
2013-06-27 05:36:58 PM

Testiclaw: Has he ever tried to just hire new engineering grads and train them the way you want them?

Maybe invest in them a bit and invest in American employment, as well?

Maybe give grads a reason to want to work hard and make it to your company when they graduate?


Obviously it's because they're lazy Americans and only Indians who can be deported at any time for poor job reviews can fill these positions.
 
2013-06-27 05:37:38 PM

theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.


That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.
 
2013-06-27 05:37:54 PM

I HATE LIBS: Noticeably F.A.T.: I HATE LIBS: instead you just pawn me off a weak troll

" I am a serious user who craves attention so much that I will say and so anything to be against what you're against."

Yep. Weak troll.

I like how you completely ignore the rest of my profile.  Very convenient.  You're basically admitting to being part of the trolling conspiracy on this site by leaving out the important parts.  The only thing weak here is you.


Not all questions deserve to be answered.

Not all posters deserve the curtesy of critial contemplations.

I'm not sure which group you arrived at first, but you occupy both.

I award you no points, may God have mercy on your soul.
 
2013-06-27 05:38:42 PM

Corvus: Your name is "I HATE LIBS" If people don't take you serious it;s mostly your fault.


What I do is not the problem.  It's everyone else.
 
2013-06-27 05:39:02 PM

I HATE LIBS: Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.


How is putting as much troops and monitoring on the US border as is on the North and South Korea border "uncontrolled influx". No one is demanding an "uncontrolled influx" that is BS crap you are making up.
 
2013-06-27 05:39:08 PM

mark12A: BUILD THE GODDAMM WALL!!

Goddamm we are screwed. The Democrats want to throw the doors wide open to the invading FOREIGNERS so they'll become citzens and vote Democratic and keep them in power, and the Republicans want to keep the doors wide open so their corporate buddies will have a cheap pool of slave labor to exploit. Meanwhile a Holocaust is going on in American cities as American minorities are at each others throats because they have no jobs and no future. Corporate America is busy dismantling the American middle class to make society more pliable to their corporate needs, and Illegals are basically strikebreakers, here to push wages down. The Washington political class as a whole are the most traitorus scum in American history.

EVERY single Senator who voted for this are traitors. They do not have the best interests of this country in mind, just their own interests.


We don't need to build a wall. We just need to revoke the business license of any employer who hires an illegal and fine them twice the average yearly wage of the job the illegal is performing, half of which is paid to the illegal as an incentive to whistleblow.
 
2013-06-27 05:39:15 PM

I HATE LIBS: That's not the point. Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.


So in protesting the treatment of trolls you've become what you most hate? I feel like I've fallen into an issue of The Amazing Spider-Man here!
 
2013-06-27 05:39:41 PM

qorkfiend: Indeed he can; from what I understand, the schedule is almost entirely at the Speaker's discretion.


Thanks (and to the others that replied as well) for the clarification. If I'm understanding it correctly, it would seem that under certain circumstances, a small number of people who oppose a bill could make its passage as difficult in the House as it already is in the Senate. This seems to me to be the opposite of what should be the case.
 
2013-06-27 05:39:45 PM

Testiclaw: Not all questions deserve to be answered.

Not all posters deserve the curtesy of critial contemplations.

I'm not sure which group you arrived at first, but you occupy both.

I award you no points, may God have mercy on your soul.


You idiot, get with the program.  You're missing the point.
 
2013-06-27 05:39:58 PM
Today we learned Marco Rubio is the Manchurian Candidate for the Republican Party.

Republicans should be really upset. They are being infiltrated by Rubio's team brainwashing anyone who opposes it and then changing their mind such as Bill O'Reilly.
 
2013-06-27 05:39:58 PM

I HATE LIBS: Corvus: Your name is "I HATE LIBS" If people don't take you serious it;s mostly your fault.

What I do is not the problem.  It's everyone else.


wow, that's sound like normal Republican "What I do is everyone else's fault not mine" level of responsibility.
 
2013-06-27 05:40:32 PM
It's  a jobs bill --- just not for Americans.
 
2013-06-27 05:41:03 PM

I HATE LIBS: theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.

That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.


Well why are you not answering any of my question or points to you? Instead you are just trying to argue about stupid stuff?
 
2013-06-27 05:41:10 PM
Mister Obama. BUILD. UP. THIS. WALL.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-27 05:41:19 PM
I can think of few examples in recent memory where a political party is so clearly holding a single, defining vote on their own future existence.

...and I'm all out of popcorn.
 
2013-06-27 05:41:22 PM
$38 billion in more border security is enough to give $100,000 to 380,000 illegals.  Probably cheaper to send them all to Harvard.
 
2013-06-27 05:41:47 PM

theorellior: So in protesting the treatment of trolls you've become what you most hate? I feel like I've fallen into an issue of The Amazing Spider-Man here!


Yet you have no problem feeding the paid shills.  Typical behavior from you people.
 
2013-06-27 05:42:08 PM

I HATE LIBS: Testiclaw: Not all questions deserve to be answered.

Not all posters deserve the curtesy of critial contemplations.

I'm not sure which group you arrived at first, but you occupy both.

I award you no points, may God have mercy on your soul.

You idiot, get with the program.  You're missing the point.


Who wants an "UNLIMITED INFLUX" of immigrants like you said? Tell me specifically.
 
2013-06-27 05:42:30 PM

I HATE LIBS: You idiot, get with the program. You're missing the point.


The only point you have is the one on the top of your head.
 
2013-06-27 05:43:26 PM

I HATE LIBS: Typical behavior from you people.


images.sodahead.com
 
2013-06-27 05:43:32 PM

RobertBruce: It's  a jobs bill --- just not for Americans.


They're going to hire 20,000 more border patrol guards.
 
2013-06-27 05:44:07 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: $38 billion in more border security is enough to give $100,000 to 380,000 illegals.  Probably cheaper to send them all to Harvard.


Yeah it's retarded. We will be spending to keep people out way more than if we let them in and paid for everything they needed.

It's Republicans logic. spend 100x more to "punish" people instead of "rewarding" them by just fixing the problem.

They think they are God and their job is to decide which people should be punished and rewarded.
 
2013-06-27 05:44:26 PM

Corvus: wow, that's sound like normal Republican "What I do is everyone else's fault not mine" level of responsibility.


You're right.  It's my fault that half the users on this site are stupid enough to fall for the rhetoric from the people listed in my profile.
 
2013-06-27 05:45:01 PM
So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "

img0.joyreactor.cc


/let them follow the law to get citizenship.
 
2013-06-27 05:45:56 PM

vernonFL: They're going to hire 20,000 more border patrol guards.


Where are they going to find them?

/Mexico?
 
2013-06-27 05:46:04 PM
A) All predictions show the US is going to have a worker shortage in the future and the US population will dwindle without immigration

B) No one wants an uncontrolled influx of people your argument is a strawman.



Then what's the farkin' point to having an Endangered Species List, or conservation efforts in general if we're just going to load up the country with people?? If we don't stop large scale immigration, we'll have half a billion people in this country by 2050, and a BILLION by 2150. Why do we have to trash the country? Are we just supposed to keep adding people until we collapse?

LET the population dwindle. As more manufacturing becomes automated/robotic, we don't need the workers. And we'll still generate enough wealth to cover social security....
 
2013-06-27 05:46:10 PM

vernonFL: They're going to hire 20,000 more border patrol guards.


Do we know what the pay is going to be like? It seems like the last thing the Republicans want would be government jobs, so are planning on contracting that out, or what?
 
2013-06-27 05:46:13 PM
I dunno about you guys, but I like this new one. He's got spunk.
 
2013-06-27 05:46:20 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: I HATE LIBS: You idiot, get with the program. You're missing the point.

The only point you have is the one on the top of your head.


Actually, I'm starting to find his crusade highly amusing. Please, continue,Mr. Calling Out Farkers Enabling Trolls By Trolling Enabling Farkers.
 
2013-06-27 05:46:29 PM

kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens


No, it won't. They have to pay a fine and wait 10 years.
 
2013-06-27 05:46:33 PM

kendelrio: /let them follow the law to get citizenship.


Oh - that's so cute.
 
2013-06-27 05:46:41 PM

FlashHarry: Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?


Yes, there are. The Speaker can just outright refuse to consider it.

There are procedures under which a majority of the House can demand that it be considered without the Speaker's help (a "discharge petition") but it is almost never used since 1993, when they changed the rules so that you had to sign the petition publicly.

Which means that the Speaker can take retribution on you. It's been used a grand total of once since then (for McCain-Feingold). Even when there's a majority for the bill, many on the Speaker's side will be too afraid to use it.
 
2013-06-27 05:46:51 PM

kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

/let them follow the law to get citizenship.


If Congress can pass something, then that is the law.

I am not kidding. You should look into it.
 
2013-06-27 05:47:01 PM
People are actually trying to seriously debate somebody with the handle I HATE LIBS? What the fark is wrong with you lot?

It's like a while back when some posters insisted on having serious "arguments" with a poster called The Guy Trolling The Thread Right Now, or something to that effect.
 
2013-06-27 05:47:15 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: I HATE LIBS: You idiot, get with the program. You're missing the point.

The only point you have is the one on the top of your head.


Ha ha, yea, lets point and laugh at the person who is so obviously a bad troll......

..what's that? The resident troll is in a creationist thread?  Well we must go there and refute all of his talking points!  To the creationist thread!

I'm out.  You guys are lame.
 
2013-06-27 05:47:18 PM

Aarontology: I dunno about you guys, but I like this new one. He's got spunk.


And a concept! You don't get high-concept trolls very often.
 
2013-06-27 05:48:04 PM

mark12A: LET the population dwindle


You first.
 
2013-06-27 05:48:12 PM
dear illegals,

ct.fra.bz
 
2013-06-27 05:48:35 PM

I HATE LIBS: Noticeably F.A.T.: I HATE LIBS: You idiot, get with the program. You're missing the point.

The only point you have is the one on the top of your head.

Ha ha, yea, lets point and laugh at the person who is so obviously a bad troll......

..what's that? The resident troll is in a creationist thread?  Well we must go there and refute all of his talking points!  To the creationist thread!

I'm out.  You guys are lame.


You were out a long time ago.
 
2013-06-27 05:48:38 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Do we know what the pay is going to be like? It seems like the last thing the Republicans want would be government jobs


Plus they are union jobs!
 
2013-06-27 05:49:43 PM

mark12A: Then what's the farkin' point to having an Endangered Species List, or conservation efforts in general if we're just going to load up the country with people?? If we don't stop large scale immigration, we'll have half a billion people in this country by 2050, and a BILLION by 2150. Why do we have to trash the country? Are we just supposed to keep adding people until we collapse?


Huh, I've never heard this line of reasoning from an anti-immigration person before. I'll allow it.
 
2013-06-27 05:49:47 PM
I doubt immigration reform will pass in any sort of form.

-Doing nothing helps business.
-Nothing that hurts business will pass.
 
2013-06-27 05:50:16 PM

I HATE LIBS: Corvus: wow, that's sound like normal Republican "What I do is everyone else's fault not mine" level of responsibility.

You're right.  It's my fault that half the users on this site are stupid enough to fall for the rhetoric from the people listed in my profile.


I have been trying to take your points seriously and not treat you like a troll, but you refuse to acknowledge any of my responses. So now all I can believe is you are a troll because you refuse to acknowledge any of the points that I make in response to your points that you say should be taken seriously and instead are focusing all your attention on combative arguing that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

If you want people not to think you're a troll then actually discuss the topic being discussed. You yelling "NO! It's your fault!!" shows you are not serious about having a serious discussion about the topic.
 
2013-06-27 05:50:23 PM

jaytkay: kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

/let them follow the law to get citizenship.

If Congress can pass something, then that is the law.

I am not kidding. You should look into it.


No shiat Sherlock.... How about we enforce the laws we have.


gingerjet: kendelrio: /let them follow the law to get citizenship.

Oh - that's so cute.


Why is that "cute"?

vernonFL: kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens

No, it won't. They have to pay a fine and wait 10 years.


So why can't they wait the ten years (back home) and do it legally? Why spit in the face of the millions of immigrants who have followed the law and come to the country legally?
 
2013-06-27 05:50:39 PM

vernonFL: RobertBruce: It's  a jobs bill --- just not for Americans.

They're going to hire 20,000 more border patrol guards.


And that's great. But it's still vs 11-12 million illegals here.
 
2013-06-27 05:50:47 PM
HASTERT, HASTERT, HASTERT!

/oh, shiat...
 
2013-06-27 05:51:09 PM

I HATE LIBS: answer the question liberals.

what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?


I'll answer when I see some proper grammar.
 
2013-06-27 05:51:23 PM

theorellior: seventypercent: But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.

Boehner: bad Speaker of the House or Worst Speaker of the House?


It can be solved by making it clear to the nation, loudly and directly, that this one man has taken it on himself to personally block this bill. Every single affected person needs to know that 'the house' didnt block it, John Boehner personally blocked the bill even though the house he purports to lead, the senate and the president would have passed it easily.

He is too much of a political coward to take a hit like that if it is fired his way.
 
2013-06-27 05:52:02 PM

mark12A: A) All predictions show the US is going to have a worker shortage in the future and the US population will dwindle without immigration

B) No one wants an uncontrolled influx of people your argument is a strawman.


Then what's the farkin' point to having an Endangered Species List, or conservation efforts in general if we're just going to load up the country with people?? If we don't stop large scale immigration, we'll have half a billion people in this country by 2050, and a BILLION by 2150. Why do we have to trash the country? Are we just supposed to keep adding people until we collapse?

LET the population dwindle. As more manufacturing becomes automated/robotic, we don't need the workers. And we'll still generate enough wealth to cover social security....


You are aware if we don't let people in the US that doesn't magically make them not exist anymore in some other country?
 
2013-06-27 05:52:39 PM

theorellior: Please, continue,Mr. Calling Out Farkers Enabling Trolls By Trolling Enabling Farkers.


I love you.
 
2013-06-27 05:53:01 PM

RobertBruce: vernonFL: RobertBruce: It's  a jobs bill --- just not for Americans.

They're going to hire 20,000 more border patrol guards.

And that's great. But it's still vs 11-12 million illegals here.


You mean the one's who already live here and mostly already have jobs?
 
2013-06-27 05:53:39 PM

theorellior: Aarontology: I dunno about you guys, but I like this new one. He's got spunk.

And a concept! You don't get high-concept trolls very often.


Right! I appreciate the effort.
 
2013-06-27 05:53:49 PM

kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "

[img0.joyreactor.cc image 600x314]


/let them follow the law to get citizenship.


psssst...hey...a bill  becomeslaw, it doesn't bypass it. Just so you know.
 
2013-06-27 05:54:40 PM

RobertBruce: And that's great. But it's still vs 11-12 million illegals here


Who presumably are already working as landscapers, dishwashers, hotel maids, auto mechanics, etc...

Only now they can have some human dignity and not have to hide in the shadows.
 
2013-06-27 05:55:03 PM

Anayalator: kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "

[img0.joyreactor.cc image 600x314]


/let them follow the law to get citizenship.

psssst...hey...a bill  becomeslaw, it doesn't bypass it. Just so you know.


Yes, I saw the cartoons as a kid too.... The point I'm making is why reward their breaking of the law????
 
2013-06-27 05:56:10 PM
Good.  Illegal invaders should be deported or executed as agents of war.
 
2013-06-27 05:56:28 PM

Aarontology: I dunno about you guys, but I like this new one. He's got spunk.


I hate spunk
danoday.com
 
2013-06-27 05:56:36 PM

kendelrio: why reward their breaking of the law????


Because we don't have a choice. We can't deport them all.
 
2013-06-27 05:56:49 PM

kendelrio: The point I'm making is why reward their breaking of the law????


Because it's the best option to deal with the situation in a humane, feasible and economical manner.
 
2013-06-27 05:58:18 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: it's the best option to deal with the situation in a humane, feasible and economical manner


OR

Smeggy Smurf: Illegal invaders should be deported or executed

 
2013-06-27 05:58:39 PM

Aarontology: I dunno about you guys, but I like this new one. He's got spunk.


I think he's getting a solid 8/10 with zero spelling errors and proper grammar. Impressive unneeded.
 
2013-06-27 05:58:44 PM
Someone give I HATE LIBS some sort of badge. This is high-quality stuff. Like Walmart Steaks good. He used stuff from the Trolling 101 textbook and got an entire thread for himself.

Bravo sir. I salute you.
 
2013-06-27 05:59:22 PM
If it dies in the house, the GOP will die along with it.

Win Win
 
2013-06-27 06:01:00 PM
I have a hard time accepting the premise that we should reward those who broke our laws and entered the country illegally.  Sure I'd like to see the process become smoother, especially for seasonal and/or unskilled/low skilled labor cases but I'm more inclined to secure the border in force then address the issue.

 Has anyone even looked at what Mexico's, or any central/south america country's policies are? We're a free for all in comparison. I was looking at what it would take to go to some European countries and essentially I'd have to either be rich, some sort of refugee status (not exactly a common status for someone in a developed country like the USA to be granted), or hired for a LONG time living in their borders. I can't just pick up, fly over and go 'yo I'd like to live here forever' and become a citizen without following a process. In many cases a multi-year process that demonstrates language and education requirements the vast majority of our illegals could never do. Some countries like Australia have quota limitations except for specific skill sets (last I looked non were lower than collage graduate level). You don't get a free ride anywhere in the world to become a citizen, so why should it here?  Even many undeveloped nations have more control over their immigration than we do.

Put the military on the border. Shoot anyone crossing without proper documentation. Expel anyone here without proper papers. While all that is going on lets rework the system to allow a progressive system that supplies both laborers as well as specialists from around the world to enter.
 
2013-06-27 06:01:49 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: kendelrio: The point I'm making is why reward their breaking of the law????

Because it's the best option to deal with the situation in a humane, feasible and economical manner.


Conservatives don't like context or reasonable approaches to real-world problems.

It requires critical thinking and fluidity; the idea of applying unique solutions to problems which are very complex in nature. Often times, real-world problems don't have right answers, or complete solutions. Instead we have to play a game of tradeoffs and compromises.

Conservatives like black & white worldviews, they need rules and that's it: Grover and his taxes, Bible, etc.

They need to be told what is right, what is wrong, and then they can go forth and rule accordingly. They simply lack the ability to embrace ambiguity.
 
2013-06-27 06:03:34 PM

kendelrio: Anayalator: kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "

[img0.joyreactor.cc image 600x314]


/let them follow the law to get citizenship.

psssst...hey...a bill  becomeslaw, it doesn't bypass it. Just so you know.

Yes, I saw the cartoons as a kid too.... The point I'm making is why reward their breaking of the law????


Reward or punishment shouldn't be a the prime consideration. It can be a small consideration as part of the "moral hazard" calculation, but the most important consideration is what policy provides the best outcome for Americans in general, and is also affordable.
 
2013-06-27 06:06:04 PM

xaldin: Expel anyone here without proper papers.



farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2013-06-27 06:06:53 PM
Liberals essentially killed the 2005 and 2006 bills with poison pills. The one in 2006 being inserted by Obama breaking with the gang of 14 to sneak the poison pill in.

By my count liberals have killed 2, house gop will kill 1.

How about doing what americans want and put security BEFORE legalization. Only 70% of respondents want that.
 
2013-06-27 06:06:56 PM

Carousel Beast: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Ah, Fark liberals. It's amazing how much you venerate putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!"

This bill is truly an landmark. Nothing lie it's ever been done. It's not even a little like the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 . And it definately won't end up the same way, encouraging even more illegal immigration and the attendant social problems. Nope, not this time.


No one is denying this.

I've always said that all this reform is pointless unless you reform the immigration process. I believe that the amount of bureaucratic red-tape and inefficiencies is the #1 motivator for immigrants to arrive here illegally.
 
2013-06-27 06:08:13 PM

xaldin: Has anyone even looked at what Mexico's, or any central/south america country's policies are? We're a free for all in comparison.


I have lived on the Mexican border all my life. Most of the time I had to walk through a turn style fence (no passport or anything). Last time I crossed I just showed a passport.
 
2013-06-27 06:08:31 PM
If we are willing to let half of Mexico become American, then why don't we just merge the countries and call it Amerexico.   We could really use the arable land and fresh water as our population is growing at a rate that it is going to be a real issue in the not to distant future.   In under 30 years, the U.S. population is projected to be over 600 million.
 
2013-06-27 06:08:47 PM

vernonFL: I HATE LIBS: So you support a method which will put overpopulation into overdrive then? Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.

Well no because the border would be more secure. Obviously we might have to revisit the issue if we get cruise ships full of thousands of Hatianss or something swimming over.


Border security was the same song that was sung in 1986, 27 years later we have 11-20 million more illegals. Just wondering how long before we have another group clamoring for an amnesty
 
2013-06-27 06:08:56 PM

MyRandomName: Liberals essentially killed the 2005 and 2006 bills with poison pills. The one in 2006 being inserted by Obama breaking with the gang of 14 to sneak the poison pill in.

By my count liberals have killed 2, house gop will kill 1.

How about doing what americans want and put security BEFORE legalization. Only 70% of respondents want that.


So you are saying the GOP really are the ones who support "amnesty" not the Democrats?
 
2013-06-27 06:09:20 PM

Corvus: I HATE LIBS: theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.

That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.

Well why are you not answering any of my question or points to you? Instead you are just trying to argue about stupid stuff?


Because he is a self-admitted troll.
 
2013-06-27 06:10:27 PM

jst3p: Corvus: I HATE LIBS: theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.

That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.

Well why are you not answering any of my question or points to you? Instead you are just trying to argue about stupid stuff?

Because he is a self-admitted troll.


ding!! Ding!!!
 
2013-06-27 06:11:14 PM
It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.
 
2013-06-27 06:11:14 PM

Pumpernickel bread: If we are willing to let half of Mexico become American, then why don't we just merge the countries and call it Amerexico.   We could really use the arable land and fresh water as our population is growing at a rate that it is going to be a real issue in the not to distant future.   In under 30 years, the U.S. population is projected to be over 600 million.


Also: the drugs.
 
2013-06-27 06:12:46 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.


They won't take the blame though. Hispanic voters will blame the GoP
 
2013-06-27 06:13:17 PM
 
2013-06-27 06:13:33 PM

MyRandomName: Liberals essentially killed the 2005 and 2006 bills with poison pills. The one in 2006 being inserted by Obama breaking with the gang of 14 to sneak the poison pill in.


And what poison pills are those?

/I know, in your eyes, the Republicans can do no wrong
 
2013-06-27 06:14:23 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.


Such as.....
 
2013-06-27 06:14:51 PM

kendelrio: /let them follow the law to get citizenship.


That's a great way to look at it.

Tell me again - what is the legal path for a farm laborer "to get citizenship?"
 
2013-06-27 06:16:25 PM
I'm really surprised that the GOP would object to locking down some cheap labor with promises of citizenship. As a bonus, they'll get an opportunity to feel even more threatened and fearful of the growing brown menace (great band name).
 
2013-06-27 06:17:08 PM
I see my worthless Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) didn't bother to vote as usual. What does this worthless idiot do all day?

ronjohnsonforsenate.com

"I didn't bother to vote on historic immigration legislation because I'm a lazy leaching Tea Bagger that basically does nothing useful." -Ron Johnson (R-WI)
 
2013-06-27 06:17:42 PM
The way I see it we have many problems, in no particular order

1)People brought here as kids
2)People living off the radar
3)Exploitation of workers
4)Poorly metered influx of people who, by their own presence, depress wages.
5)Social support of those people

(Am I missing any issues?)

I don't know the full text of the bill.  How does this bill affect or address these issues?
 
2013-06-27 06:18:26 PM
If they can get rewarded for breaking the law then I should be able to rape, pillage and commit mopery for profit too.
 
2013-06-27 06:18:30 PM
WHY DONT THEY IMMIGRATE LEGALLY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf  (pdf warning)
 
2013-06-27 06:18:58 PM

Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?


This would certainly pass the House.

BUT:

John Boehner has complete control of what comes up for a vote.

John Boehner has been told that he will no longer be speaker if he brings it up.

John Boehner cares more about his job than anything in the world.

Therefore, this will not be voted on.
 
2013-06-27 06:19:52 PM

Testiclaw: Conservatives don't like context or reasonable approaches to real-world problems.


This is simply not true.  But in every case like this, (Big political splash issue)  the democrats shove so much pork into it, or Obama poison pills, no reasonable person can vote for it.

Go find another strawman, yours is on fire.
 
2013-06-27 06:19:54 PM

Corvus: jst3p: Corvus: I HATE LIBS: theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.

That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.

Well why are you not answering any of my question or points to you? Instead you are just trying to argue about stupid stuff?

Because he is a self-admitted troll.

ding!! Ding!!!


That must be the sounds of the bats in your bell-free.

The other uses get it, obviously you didn't.
 
2013-06-27 06:20:26 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Testiclaw: Conservatives don't like context or reasonable approaches to real-world problems.

This is simply not true.  But in every case like this, (Big political splash issue)  the democrats shove so much pork into it, or Obama poison pills, no reasonable person can vote for it.

Go find another strawman, yours is on fire.


Like?
 
2013-06-27 06:21:06 PM

Testiclaw: vernonFL: Biological Ali: keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it?

Yeah but in this case, the majority from his party wouldn't vote for it - its a stupid thing called the "Hastert rule" which isn't even a rule.

I had no clue about the "Hastert Rule", so I did a quick Wiki and then slammed my head into the desk.

What a complete crock of shiat. If a bill has the votes, it should be voted on, period.

Figures it is named after a Reptilzican.


Party before country, always.
 
2013-06-27 06:21:25 PM

Biological Ali: qorkfiend: Indeed he can; from what I understand, the schedule is almost entirely at the Speaker's discretion.

Thanks (and to the others that replied as well) for the clarification. If I'm understanding it correctly, it would seem that under certain circumstances, a small number of people who oppose a bill could make its passage as difficult in the House as it already is in the Senate. This seems to me to be the opposite of what should be the case.


It is very different from the Senate filibuster.

The filibuster allows the minority party (assuming they can muster enough votes) to prevent any legislation from being voted on. I think this should be more difficult and limited at some point, but the idea is very good.
For the case being discussed, the speaker alone (a leader of the majority party) can prevent any legislation from being voted on. No matter how much support it has, theoretically even if every other member supports it (practically there is a limit as he would lose his job if it were popular enough).

Now, the logical thing a legislature would have is a periodic day (say, once a month) when the opposition can introduce whatever bills they want and have them voted on.

Now, it makes sense why he is doing this, similar to Christie wanting a referendum on gay marriage, Boehner can claim to the base that he stopped it while saying to moderates that it wasn't his fault, he was obligated to follow this unwritten rule (and conveniently ignore the times he didn't do so).
 
2013-06-27 06:21:42 PM

novalord2: WHY DONT THEY IMMIGRATE LEGALLY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf  (pdf warning)


Usually I think Reason goes off the derp end with some of their stuff but they are spot on when it comes to the bureaucratic clusterfark that is our immigration system.
 
2013-06-27 06:21:49 PM

Hollie Maea: Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

This would certainly pass the House.

BUT:

John Boehner has complete control of what comes up for a vote.

John Boehner has been told that he will no longer be speaker if he brings it up.

John Boehner cares more about his job scotch than anything in the world.

Therefore, this will not be voted on.


Agreed. But I did fix your sole error.
 
2013-06-27 06:23:23 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: But in every case like this, (Big political splash issue) the democrats shove so much pork into it, or Obama poison pills, no reasonable person can vote for it.


Such as?
 
2013-06-27 06:24:18 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.


Actually, the GOP has stated that their opposition to the bill is based solely on the fact that it's an immigration reform bill, not pork included in the bill.

just an fyi
 
2013-06-27 06:26:32 PM

jst3p: Corvus: I HATE LIBS: theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.

That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.

Well why are you not answering any of my question or points to you? Instead you are just trying to argue about stupid stuff?

Because he is a self-admitted troll.


Exactly. Why reward it with any attention at all?
 
2013-06-27 06:26:59 PM
Goddamn cynical Republicans voting yes because they know they can count on their companions in the House to crush the bill, but they want to appear to support Hispanics. Vote how you really feel.
 
2013-06-27 06:27:37 PM
So the conservative side solutions I see here seem to be:

Build a 1950 mile long wall
Deploy troops along a 1950 mile border with orders to shoot to kill
Deport everyone in the country illegally

And y'all plan to pay for this... how?
 
2013-06-27 06:28:04 PM

make me some tea: Also, may I present the few reasonable Republicans left:

[fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net image 810x810]


They aren't reasonable. See my above post. This is cynical opportunism. I guarantee that if the Dems controlled the House, every single one of them would have filibustered this.
 
2013-06-27 06:28:38 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So the conservative side solutions I see here seem to be:

Build a 1950 mile long wall
Deploy troops along a 1950 mile border with orders to shoot to kill
Deport everyone in the country illegally

And y'all plan to pay for this... how?


Tax cuts.
 
2013-06-27 06:29:16 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: MaudlinMutantMollusk: So the conservative side solutions I see here seem to be:

Build a 1950 mile long wall
Deploy troops along a 1950 mile border with orders to shoot to kill
Deport everyone in the country illegally

And y'all plan to pay for this... how?

Tax cuts.


D'oh!

/of course
//WTF was I thinking?
 
2013-06-27 06:29:33 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Testiclaw: Conservatives don't like context or reasonable approaches to real-world problems.

This is simply not true.  But in every case like this, (Big political splash issue)  the democrats shove so much pork into it, or Obama poison pills, no reasonable person can vote for it.

Go find another strawman, yours is on fire.


Obama poison pills?

I don't have the time or the crayons to try and explain things to you.
 
2013-06-27 06:29:37 PM
The moderate Republicans in the House could fix this at any time.  Agree with the Democrats to choose a new speaker--the most liberal (more or less) in the House.  They could easily bring down Boehner with a Dem/Moderate GOP coalition.  This would completely and utterly remove all power from the Tea Party, and would likely save the party, which otherwise will not survive this.
 
2013-06-27 06:30:02 PM

I HATE LIBS: Corvus: jst3p: Corvus: I HATE LIBS: theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.

That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.

Well why are you not answering any of my question or points to you? Instead you are just trying to argue about stupid stuff?

Because he is a self-admitted troll.

ding!! Ding!!!

That must be the sounds of the bats in your bell-free.

The other uses get it, obviously you didn't.


It's called a belfry. Just because you're terrible at trolling doesn't mean you have to be terrible at spelling, too.
 
2013-06-27 06:30:11 PM

Carousel Beast: This bill is truly an landmark.


a landmark
 
2013-06-27 06:30:37 PM

I HATE LIBS: vernonFL: I HATE LIBS: what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?

They get indefinite work permits and as long as they don't commit crimes and they pay taxes, they can stay.


Hallelujah. Finally someone can read.

So you support a method which will put overpopulation into overdrive then?  Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.


You do realize we can fit the entire population of the US into Texas and give them 2 square kilometers each to boot. Over population is not a major dager in the US. Having to live in Texas though...
 
2013-06-27 06:31:08 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: Carousel Beast: This bill is truly an landmark.

a landmark


It's okay, the n is silent.
 
2013-06-27 06:31:11 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Such as.....


Such as that part where they let the brown people stay!!!!
 
2013-06-27 06:32:08 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So the conservative side solutions I see here seem to be:

Build a 1950 mile long wall
Deploy troops along a 1950 mile border with orders to shoot to kill
Deport everyone in the country illegally

And y'all plan to pay for this... how?


Jesus, tax cuts and Second Amendment Solutions™.
 
2013-06-27 06:32:09 PM

dywed88: Now, it makes sense why he is doing this, similar to Christie wanting a referendum on gay marriage, Boehner can claim to the base that he stopped it while saying to moderates that it wasn't his fault, he was obligated to follow this unwritten rule (and conveniently ignore the times he didn't do so).


See, I just don't see how it's possible to pull that off. At least when a bill can't break filibuster in the Senate, opponents can disingenuously claim that it "didn't have enough votes". The fact that he can do this may be apparent enough, but who exactly is going to buy his argument (assuming he makes it) that he's powerless to act otherwise? I mean, the base I guess, but surely moderates aren't going to be that stupid (hopefully not a majority of them anyway)?
 
2013-06-27 06:33:16 PM

Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Actually, the GOP has stated that their opposition to the bill is based solely on the fact that it's an immigration reform bill, not pork included in the bill.

just an fyi


If what I read is accurate, they would like to see it carved up into 4 bills, with alot more clarity/verbage surrounding where the dollars come from.  Dems want to make the big political splash, money be damned. Business as usual. The bill is DOA.
 
2013-06-27 06:33:58 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.


It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.
 
2013-06-27 06:34:58 PM

sufferpuppet: dear illegals,

[ct.fra.bz image 600x339]


I bet you drove over the speed limit to get to work today.
 
2013-06-27 06:35:19 PM
Fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: fwd: The immigration bill makes chicken fighting legal.
 
2013-06-27 06:37:13 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.


You mean like this:

Border Security Amendment To Immigration Bill Clears Major Hurdle
Republicans who voted for the amendment included Sens. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), Kelly Ayotte (N.H.), Jeff Chiesa (N.J.), Susan Collins (Maine), Bob Corker (Tenn.), Jeff Flake (Ariz.), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), John Hoeven (N.D.), Orrin Hatch (Utah), Dean Heller (Nev.), Mark Kirk (Ill.), John McCain (Ariz.), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska), Marco Rubio (Fla.) and Roger Wicker (Miss.). Wicker said although he voted for moving forward with the amendment, he is still likely to vote against final passage of the bill.


R-E-P-U-B-L-IC-A-N-S That's a funny way to spell "Democrats".
 
2013-06-27 06:37:36 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Actually, the GOP has stated that their opposition to the bill is based solely on the fact that it's an immigration reform bill, not pork included in the bill.

just an fyi

If what I read is accurate, they would like to see it carved up into 4 bills, with alot more clarity/verbage surrounding where the dollars come from.  Dems want to make the big political splash, money be damned. Business as usual. The bill is DOA.


No, the establishment GOP want to cut it up into multiple bills but the Tea Derpers are threatening to throw Boehner out if he brings 'any' of it up for a vote.  They're solidly in opposition to any Immigration Reform of any kind at all.
 
2013-06-27 06:37:39 PM
Have any Democrats had to filibuster their own bills yet?
 
2013-06-27 06:38:20 PM
After reading this thread I have the sudden urge to avoid bridges.
 
2013-06-27 06:38:29 PM

kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "




/let them follow the law to get citizenship.


They will be following the law: the new one being worked on by our legislation.

Simple enough to understand, I should think.
 
2013-06-27 06:39:19 PM

I HATE LIBS: Corvus: Your name is "I HATE LIBS" If people don't take you serious it;s mostly your fault.

What I do is not the problem.  It's everyone else.


If you meet an asshole in the morning, you've met an asshole.  If you meet assholes all day, you're the asshole.
 
2013-06-27 06:42:38 PM

Hollie Maea: The moderate Republicans in the House could fix this at any time.  Agree with the Democrats to choose a new speaker--the most liberal (more or less) in the House.  They could easily bring down Boehner with a Dem/Moderate GOP coalition.  This would completely and utterly remove all power from the Tea Party, and would likely save the party, which otherwise will not survive this.


Another way to look at this just occurred to me.  The Tea party is saying they will sack Boehner if he brings this up for a vote.  But where would they get THEIR votes?  There is no way that a moderate Republican would vote for a crazy in order to punish the speaker for bringing up a bill that they themselves voted for.  So there is no way that the Tea partiers can get rid of Boehner.  He should know this.  But he isn't very smart.
 
2013-06-27 06:43:03 PM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


Fortunately, illegals can't vote.
 
2013-06-27 06:43:41 PM

Granny_Panties: I see my worthless Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) didn't bother to vote as usual. What does this worthless idiot do all day?


I've wondered this for a long time. Not specifically about this guy, just in general. When your job is - essentially - voting on legislation, and you're not doing that...?

/Yuh fuy-herd!
 
2013-06-27 06:43:41 PM

Hollie Maea: Hollie Maea: The moderate Republicans in the House could fix this at any time.  Agree with the Democrats to choose a new speaker--the most liberal (more or less) in the House.  They could easily bring down Boehner with a Dem/Moderate GOP coalition.  This would completely and utterly remove all power from the Tea Party, and would likely save the party, which otherwise will not survive this.

Another way to look at this just occurred to me.  The Tea party is saying they will sack Boehner if he brings this up for a vote.  But where would they get THEIR votes?  There is no way that a moderate Republican would vote for a crazy in order to punish the speaker for bringing up a bill that they themselves voted for.  So there is no way that the Tea partiers can get rid of Boehner.  He should know this.  But he isn't very smart.


Not very smart, always afraid.

...Sounds like the republicans are well represented.
 
2013-06-27 06:44:27 PM

Mouser: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Fortunately, illegals can't vote.


Unless they get some help from ACORN!!!1!
 
2013-06-27 06:44:30 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Such as.....


Drones, at the least. They areva waste of money on the southern border- especially if we have one agent per thousand feet. Just put in some cameras.
 
2013-06-27 06:45:04 PM
We should really just abolish the House. They serve no useful purpose.
 
2013-06-27 06:46:30 PM

JesusJuice: We should really just abolish the House. They serve no useful purpose.


You mean...

Bring Down the House.

/YYEEEEAAAAHHHHHH
 
2013-06-27 06:47:37 PM

Pumpernickel bread: If we are willing to let half of Mexico become American, then why don't we just merge the countries and call it Amerexico.


Or we could call it North America.

The fact that you don't know that Mexicans are already Americans tells me everything I need to know about you.

/Yes, I will take fries with that.
 
2013-06-27 06:48:51 PM
Democrats and sell out Republicans.
 
2013-06-27 06:50:21 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Actually, the GOP has stated that their opposition to the bill is based solely on the fact that it's an immigration reform bill, not pork included in the bill.

just an fyi

If what I read is accurate, they would like to see it carved up into 4 bills, with alot more clarity/verbage surrounding where the dollars come from.  Dems want to make the big political splash, money be damned. Business as usual. The bill is DOA.


Where did you read that? Why is boehner not dropping such soundbites?
 
2013-06-27 06:50:59 PM

Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.


It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.
 
2013-06-27 06:52:09 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.

It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.


I like how every post you make is full of vague nonsense that isn't grounded in reality, and when people ask for specifics you just ignore them and keep talking idiocy.
 
2013-06-27 06:53:32 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.

It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.

I like how every post you make is full of vague nonsense that isn't grounded in reality, and when people ask for specifics you just ignore them and keep talking idiocy.


Doesn't like a bill without specifics; doesn't provide any specifics.

Projection, in his vajayjay? It's more likely than he thinks.
 
2013-06-27 06:53:39 PM

Rhino_man: I HATE LIBS: Corvus: Your name is "I HATE LIBS" If people don't take you serious it;s mostly your fault.

What I do is not the problem.  It's everyone else.

If you meet an asshole in the morning, you've met an asshole.  If you meet assholes all day, you're the asshole.


Or in Texas.
 
2013-06-27 06:54:23 PM

Smackledorfer: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Actually, the GOP has stated that their opposition to the bill is based solely on the fact that it's an immigration reform bill, not pork included in the bill.

just an fyi

If what I read is accurate, they would like to see it carved up into 4 bills, with alot more clarity/verbage surrounding where the dollars come from.  Dems want to make the big political splash, money be damned. Business as usual. The bill is DOA.

Where did you read that? Why is boehner not dropping such soundbites?


He spells "made up" r-e-a-d
 
2013-06-27 06:54:48 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: When your job is - essentially - voting on legislation, and you're not doing that...?


He was not hired to vote on legislation.  He was hired to remove Russ Feingold from the Senate.
 
2013-06-27 06:55:26 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.

It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.

I like how every post you make is full of vague nonsense that isn't grounded in reality, and when people ask for specifics you just ignore them and keep talking idiocy.


But ge is totally for immigration. I'm sure he won't always raise the bar determining if he could support it.
 
2013-06-27 06:55:38 PM

jst3p: Smackledorfer: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Actually, the GOP has stated that their opposition to the bill is based solely on the fact that it's an immigration reform bill, not pork included in the bill.

just an fyi

If what I read is accurate, they would like to see it carved up into 4 bills, with alot more clarity/verbage surrounding where the dollars come from.  Dems want to make the big political splash, money be damned. Business as usual. The bill is DOA.

Where did you read that? Why is boehner not dropping such soundbites?

He spells "made up" r-e-a-d


No, he totally read it. All about it. Also where he read about all of the non-specific pork and poison Fartpills. It was in an article his Canadian girlfriend tweeted him when he was at the gym.
 
2013-06-27 06:55:46 PM

randomjsa: Democrats and sell out Republicans.


Smart Shart take.
 
2013-06-27 06:57:26 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.

It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.

I like how every post you make is full of vague nonsense that isn't grounded in reality, and when people ask for specifics you just ignore them and keep talking idiocy.


Oh good. For a minute, I thought I was the only one that noticed this.
 
2013-06-27 07:00:30 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: jst3p: Smackledorfer: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

Actually, the GOP has stated that their opposition to the bill is based solely on the fact that it's an immigration reform bill, not pork included in the bill.

just an fyi

If what I read is accurate, they would like to see it carved up into 4 bills, with alot more clarity/verbage surrounding where the dollars come from.  Dems want to make the big political splash, money be damned. Business as usual. The bill is DOA.

Where did you read that? Why is boehner not dropping such soundbites?

He spells "made up" r-e-a-d

No, he totally read it. All about it. Also where he read about all of the non-specific pork and poison Fartpills. It was in an article his Canadian girlfriend tweeted him when he was at the gym.


And now, we bring you live, to POISON FARTPILLS who will be playing ADAGIO ON HER G-STRING on the BONGOS!!
 
2013-06-27 07:00:33 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.

It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.

I like how every post you make is full of vague nonsense that isn't grounded in reality, and when people ask for specifics you just ignore them and keep talking idiocy.


I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.
 
2013-06-27 07:02:44 PM
The Poison Pill that's part of immigration reform which Republicans are really upset about is that the bill fails to authorize ICE to feed actual poison pills to immigrants.
 
2013-06-27 07:03:11 PM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


Where do you think America will be in a generation?  Better or worse off than now? What will happen to the wages of the unskilled American worker when they have 24 million more workers to compete with or are already understaffed medical services staff?

Winning the popular vote in 30 years will be like being the king of Zimbabwe.  Perfectly useless.
 
2013-06-27 07:04:41 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.

It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.

I like how every post you make is full of vague nonsense that isn't grounded in reality, and when people ask for specifics you just ignore them and keep talking idiocy.

I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.


That was a much better response than backing up your claims.

Well, it was if your claims cannot be backed up, of course.
 
2013-06-27 07:05:32 PM

Nemo's Brother: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Where do you think America will be in a generation?  Better or worse off than now? What will happen to the wages of the unskilled American worker when they have 24 million more workers to compete with or are already understaffed medical services staff?

Winning the popular vote in 30 years will be like being the king of Zimbabwe.  Perfectly useless.


I never knew republicans were worried about unskilled workers or their access to medical services or wages.

When did this happen?
 
2013-06-27 07:05:37 PM

Nemo's Brother: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Where do you think America will be in a generation?  Better or worse off than now? What will happen to the wages of the unskilled American worker when they have 24 million more workers to compete with


Well, at the least the unemployment rate goes down as more people take jobs at lower wages.
 
2013-06-27 07:06:08 PM

Nemo's Brother: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Where do you think America will be in a generation?  Better or worse off than now? What will happen to the wages of the unskilled American worker when they have 24 million more workers to compete with or are already understaffed medical services staff?

Winning the popular vote in 30 years will be like being the king of Zimbabwe.  Perfectly useless.


Unskilled workers have more to fear from the corporations that own our political system than they do by immigrants.
 
2013-06-27 07:07:22 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.


"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?
 
2013-06-27 07:08:41 PM

Carousel Beast: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Ah, Fark liberals. It's amazing how much you venerate putting your fingers in your ears and yelling "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!"

This bill is truly an landmark. Nothing lie it's ever been done. It's not even a little like the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 . And it definately won't end up the same way, encouraging even more illegal immigration and the attendant social problems. Nope, not this time.


Juffo-wup fills my fibers and I grow turgid.  Violent action ensues.
 
2013-06-27 07:10:04 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Corvus: Lt. Cheese Weasel: It's the Dems fault this dies in the House.  Damn bill is so porked up, it should be used to make sausage.

It was the Republicans who demanded that more amendments be added to it not the Democrats.

The "pork" is the added border security that Republicans demanded.

It's 'pork' if there is no clear verbiage of where the money comes from and how it is managed.  That is the problem with this bill. It's just like Obamacare.  Let's pass it and figure out who gets screwed afterwards. The Senate did a sloppy job, and congratulated themselves for the political brownie points they gained.  Big deal. Even McCain should be ashamed.

Again, Tea Party can go to hell, and if they have Boehners balls in a jar, I am sad.  I want to see immigration reform, done responsibly.  Cut it up, fund it correctly, provide the path for those here already, and beef up the border. Everybody wins. But an expectation of the bilious bastards in DC doing anything remotely in the interest of their employers is fantasy.

I like how every post you make is full of vague nonsense that isn't grounded in reality, and when people ask for specifics you just ignore them and keep talking idiocy.

I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.


Please cite the examples of the "pork" or "poison pills" you referenced earlier. Or admit you made it up or repeated something you heard without verifying it. Or shut up.
 
2013-06-27 07:10:35 PM

Mrtraveler01: I believe that the amount of bureaucratic red-tape and inefficiencies is the #1 motivator for immigrants to arrive here illegally.


Putting limits on the people we allow in, especially to work, is not bureaucratic red-tape.
 
2013-06-27 07:12:47 PM

jst3p: Or shut up.


This one.  Thanks.
 
2013-06-27 07:12:58 PM

WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.


Shoot, why do they need to try and do that when they can just gerrymander their way into victory?
 
2013-06-27 07:15:41 PM
Here's something to consider with the labor pool the US, why aren't more businesses expanding into new areas given they can get people to work pretty easily. If the labor pool was small it would be pretty expensive to get people to work in a new division or on a new enterprise. As it is in the US the labor pool is such that getting more people on the payroll isn't financially difficult. Yet it's like American businesses have totally forgotten to think of people as a resource on top of becoming very risk averse. It's as if they want to do the least they can do instead of find out what's the most they can do.
 
2013-06-27 07:17:15 PM

WhyteRaven74: It's as if they want to do the least they can do instead of find out what's the most they can do.


It's no mystery, it's just late-stage capitalism. Business is now primarily oriented toward wealth extraction rather than creation.
 
2013-06-27 07:19:47 PM

Hollie Maea: Hollie Maea: The moderate Republicans in the House could fix this at any time.  Agree with the Democrats to choose a new speaker--the most liberal (more or less) in the House.  They could easily bring down Boehner with a Dem/Moderate GOP coalition.  This would completely and utterly remove all power from the Tea Party, and would likely save the party, which otherwise will not survive this.

Another way to look at this just occurred to me.  The Tea party is saying they will sack Boehner if he brings this up for a vote.  But where would they get THEIR votes?  There is no way that a moderate Republican would vote for a crazy in order to punish the speaker for bringing up a bill that they themselves voted for.  So there is no way that the Tea partiers can get rid of Boehner.  He should know this.  But he isn't very smart.


If the mod repubs you are referring to are worried about a tea party candidate primarying them, your theory goes bupkus.

Dont get me wrong, I like your idea, but I cant ignoe the flaw.
 
2013-06-27 07:22:12 PM

jst3p: Unskilled workers have more to fear from the corporations that own our political system than they do by immigrants.


Not mutually exclusive. So why make a bad situation worse?
 
2013-06-27 07:25:03 PM
Bill doesn't fix anything. Screws over people that were legally trying to get in. Gives millions of new voters to the Democratic party, and millions of more Americans on welfare. Lose/lose for everyone but Democratic politicians.

Republicans for one thing, wanted congressional oversight to makes sure the border was secure. Dems won't allow that.
 
2013-06-27 07:30:29 PM

DORMAMU: If the mod repubs you are referring to are worried about a tea party candidate primarying them, your theory goes bupkus.

Dont get me wrong, I like your idea, but I cant ignoe the flaw.


I'm sure that there are a ton for which that is true...but they really don't need that many.  My reasoning is that if there are enough who are willing to vote for this bill (they say there is enough) which means Tea Party primary anyway, then there should also be enough that they would be willing to vote against a Tea Party take over of the leadership.  I'm really only talking about 20 or so Republicans out of a 250 member caucus. There are a fair number of moderate Republicans that hail from pretty liberal districts in which a Tea Party primary isn't going to have much teeth.
 
2013-06-27 07:31:37 PM

Mouser: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Fortunately, illegals can't vote.


Fortunately, 75% of people in the US identifying themselves as Hispanic are U.S. citizens (and another substantial number are legally here on visas).  Heck, 66% speak English at home.  And, yet, despite all that, most self-identified Hispanics know someone affected by these proposals and are being actively alienated by Boehner and friends.
 
2013-06-27 07:33:06 PM

seventypercent: Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

It could pass the House with the vast majority Democrats and a relatively small number of Republicans voting for it. And it probably would pass right now.

But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.



And Harry Reid hasn't done the same thing ever?
 
2013-06-27 07:34:51 PM

I HATE LIBS: Tell me, libtards what is your solution for the illegals that don't go become citizens?  What are you gonna do?  Sing Kumbaya around a trash fire in the Castro?


There are enough flamers in the Castro.
 
2013-06-27 07:37:06 PM

All2morrowsparTs: sufferpuppet: dear illegals,

[ct.fra.bz image 600x339]

I bet you drove over the speed limit to get to work today.


Nope, not with Portland's traffic.  But if I had I wouldn't then expect the speed limit to be removed.

This isn't Nam.  There are rules.
 
2013-06-27 07:38:52 PM
Funny. I went through three embassies to get my family here legally. It took months and a lot of leg work to get the visas and go through the interviews.

Now it looks like all I had to do to save my family the headache was to walk them across the border and wait for our government to grant amnesty. Dang.

I guess it is true, only the law abiding follow laws. And in this instance, crime DOES pay.......

//FYI, I am married to what you farkers call a "brown" person.
 
2013-06-27 07:41:04 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: Granny_Panties: I see my worthless Senator Ron Johnson (R-WI) didn't bother to vote as usual. What does this worthless idiot do all day?

I've wondered this for a long time. Not specifically about this guy, just in general. When your job is - essentially - voting on legislation, and you're not doing that...?

/Yuh fuy-herd!


Probably cashing lobbyist checks down at the nearest ATM?
 
2013-06-27 07:42:32 PM

revn67: Funny. I went through three embassies to get my family here legally. It took months and a lot of leg work to get the visas and go through the interviews.

Now it looks like all I had to do to save my family the headache was to walk them across the border and wait for our government to grant amnesty. Dang.

I guess it is true, only the law abiding follow laws. And in this instance, crime DOES pay.......

//FYI, I am married to what you farkers call a "brown" person.


It is not fair for you, therefore this should not happen.

I don't care that your wife is brown, but feel sad that she married such a bitter moron.
 
2013-06-27 07:43:51 PM

I HATE LIBS: That must be the sounds of the bats in your bell-free.

The other uses get it, obviously you didn't.


I thought you left to troll a different thread. How can we believe anything you say when we can't even trust you leave the thread?
 
2013-06-27 07:45:29 PM
So, businesses that rely on exploiting illegals are going to suddenly only employee legal workers?
 
2013-06-27 07:46:11 PM
I've been working with immigrants every day for the past few years, and seen how they and their children suffer for lack of status.  More than small percentage fled SERIOUS violence in their small towns in Central and South America because of the insane violence, extortion and police corruption that is ripping their countries apart.

They are VERY hard workers, pay their taxes (via TIN number), most have nothing more than a few traffic tickets on their record, and their children are incredibly intelligent and successful students.  Sure, a few are sh*tbags, but they usually wind up getting themselves deported by doing stupid crap and getting arrested for it (which triggers an "ICE hold" and deportation) and don't last too long here.

If the GOP is stupid enough to kill this bill, I will make it my personal goal to make it very clear to EVERY Latino client, their family, the community, my family, and my friends, that the GOP basically told them to go f*ck themselves.

The "boobies" of this thread made a very valid point.  The GOP better come at this in good faith, or they're going to lose the Latino vote for at least a generation.
 
2013-06-27 07:49:20 PM

revn67: Funny. I went through three embassies to get my family here legally. It took months and a lot of leg work to get the visas and go through the interviews.

Now it looks like all I had to do to save my family the headache was to walk them across the border and wait for our government to grant amnesty. Dang.

I guess it is true, only the law abiding follow laws. And in this instance, crime DOES pay.......

//FYI, I am married to what you farkers call a "brown" person.


It took me just as much work to get here legally. Unlike you, however, I don't feel like passing on unnecessary abuse.
 
2013-06-27 07:53:35 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: So the conservative side solutions I see here seem to be:

Build a 1950 mile long wall
Deploy troops along a 1950 mile border with orders to shoot to kill
Deport everyone in the country illegally

And y'all plan to pay for this... how?


Messicans can build it and then we can fling dem over the wall back to Mexi c o.
 
2013-06-27 07:53:40 PM

Mike Chewbacca: "The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes," Boehner told reporters at a press conference. "For any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the House, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members," he added later, referring to Republicans."

Yay, Hastert Rule!


What's he going to do if it has a support of the majority of "his" members? He going to abide by their decision, or is he going to keep fighting the good fight?
 
2013-06-27 07:55:56 PM

kombat_unit: So, businesses that rely on exploiting illegals are going to suddenly only employee legal workers?


Republicans want everything to stay exactly how it is. Then come election time, they can run on tossing all the browns back over the border while in reality wanting more to come over for cheap labor. Republicans are scum. I thought most people knew that already? The Republicans want slave labor that can't vote nor collect social benefits. Their plan is simple and openly obvious. They currently get the racist vote and the cheap labor. It's been working out really well for them. Why change now?
 
2013-06-27 07:58:09 PM

Shirley Ujest: MaudlinMutantMollusk: So the conservative side solutions I see here seem to be:

Build a 1950 mile long wall
Deploy troops along a 1950 mile border with orders to shoot to kill
Deport everyone in the country illegally

And y'all plan to pay for this... how?

Messicans can build it and then we can fling dem over the wall back to Mexi c o.


Forget the wall, forget the troops, just a no-man's land, patrolled by hunter/killer drones...
 
2013-06-27 07:58:56 PM

Gyrfalcon: Mike Chewbacca: "The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes," Boehner told reporters at a press conference. "For any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the House, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members," he added later, referring to Republicans."

Yay, Hastert Rule!

What's he going to do if it has a support of the majority of "his" members? He going to abide by their decision, or is he going to keep fighting the good fight?


As I understand it, the House GOP leader won't allow a vote to come to the floor unless it's unanimous among the GOP members.  Granted, that's changed in the last year, with Boehner bringing the vote to the floor in defiance of a few Tea Derpers, but that's only driven them more and more insane.  Now, they're saying that they'll boot Boehner if he brings any part of Immigration Reform to the floor for a vote.

Now, they don't have the numbers to get rid of him, but the perception would be that of an outright open and violent Civil War in the GOP and that'd be disastrous for them going into the mid-terms next year.
 
2013-06-27 08:00:32 PM

El Morro: Sure, a few are sh*tbags, but they usually wind up getting themselves deported by doing stupid crap and getting arrested for it (which triggers an "ICE hold" and deportation) and don't last too long here.


Because our border is so secure once you get deported there's no way to get back.
 
2013-06-27 08:03:16 PM
I hope this passes.

We could use a new batch of illegals.

The ones that are here now are getting lazy, and want too much money.
 
2013-06-27 08:09:12 PM

El Morro: the GOP basically told them to go f*ck themselves.


That's who they are. That's how they roll.
 
2013-06-27 08:09:43 PM

I HATE LIBS: theorellior: Okay, Mr. ALL CAPS LOGIN, you got thrown a bone or two, you can go away victorious now.

That's not the point.  Many users on this site kiss ass to the same trolls, its annoying as all get out.


Who are you? Why are you here? You seriously suck the donkey cock.
 
2013-06-27 08:09:54 PM

Hollie Maea: The moderate Republicans in the House could fix this at any time.  Agree with the Democrats to choose a new speaker--the most liberal (more or less) in the House.  They could easily bring down Boehner with a Dem/Moderate GOP coalition.  This would completely and utterly remove all power from the Tea Party, and would likely save the party, which otherwise will not survive this.


And the Republicans face getting disowned by the party, losing all funding and campaign support from the GOP, and getting primaried to hell and back. It would be far worse than voting for the bill, it would be an outright betrayal of the party. And because of that, it won't just be the Teaderp itching to nail them in the primaries, but many more moderate party loyalists as well.

That is the tool the Teabaggers use to keep others in line. The moderates are far better off sitting back and doing nothing.
 
2013-06-27 08:10:09 PM

El Morro: The GOP better come at this in good faith


That will not happen.
 
2013-06-27 08:20:46 PM

dywed88: And the Republicans face getting disowned by the party, losing all funding and campaign support from the GOP, and getting primaried to hell and back. It would be far worse than voting for the bill, it would be an outright betrayal of the party. And because of that, it won't just be the Teaderp itching to nail them in the primaries, but many more moderate party loyalists as well.

That is the tool the Teabaggers use to keep others in line. The moderates are far better off sitting back and doing nothing.


If they fark up this bill, there won't be a viable party to betray.  The moderates SHOULD understand this.
 
2013-06-27 08:22:51 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Nemo's Brother: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Where do you think America will be in a generation?  Better or worse off than now? What will happen to the wages of the unskilled American worker when they have 24 million more workers to compete with

Well, at the least the unemployment rate goes down as more people take jobs at lower wages.


Like in Texas?
 
2013-06-27 08:24:41 PM

Lawnchair: Mouser: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Fortunately, illegals can't vote.

Fortunately, 75% of people in the US identifying themselves as Hispanic are U.S. citizens (and another substantial number are legally here on visas).  Heck, 66% speak English at home.  And, yet, despite all that, most self-identified Hispanics know someone affected by these proposals and are being actively alienated by Boehner and friends.


Most of these Republicans think every Hispanic in the US is "illegal".
 
2013-06-27 08:26:05 PM

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: Nemo's Brother: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.

Where do you think America will be in a generation?  Better or worse off than now? What will happen to the wages of the unskilled American worker when they have 24 million more workers to compete with

Well, at the least the unemployment rate goes down as more people take jobs at lower wages.

Like in Texas?


I'd guess wages are way up in Texas. They are fracking all over the state. It's a new oil boom.

And in 50 years most of the state might break through the Earth's crust and sink into the upper mantle.
 
2013-06-27 08:26:36 PM
Bohner sending the nice message to everyone of "No bipartisan stuff can be done until the Democrats get the majority of the house".
 
2013-06-27 08:27:19 PM
If Boehner is sticking by the Hastert rule this thing is going nowhere. He's totally incompetent as a speaker and the Republicans have 0 interest in actually passing legislation. They're only interested in political theater like repealing Obamacare a million times because political entertainment is apparently the only thing the Republican base is interested in anymore. (Thanks Fox News!)

Like everything that's been passed under the most recent Republican house leadership, it will only happen if Boehner steps aside and lets Pelosi lead.
 
2013-06-27 08:27:29 PM
Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.
 
2013-06-27 08:29:29 PM

Infernalist: Gyrfalcon: Mike Chewbacca: "The House is not going to take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes," Boehner told reporters at a press conference. "For any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the House, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members," he added later, referring to Republicans."

Yay, Hastert Rule!

What's he going to do if it has a support of the majority of "his" members? He going to abide by their decision, or is he going to keep fighting the good fight?

As I understand it, the House GOP leader won't allow a vote to come to the floor unless it's unanimous among the GOP members.  Granted, that's changed in the last year, with Boehner bringing the vote to the floor in defiance of a few Tea Derpers, but that's only driven them more and more insane.  Now, they're saying that they'll boot Boehner if he brings any part of Immigration Reform to the floor for a vote.

Now, they don't have the numbers to get rid of him, but the perception would be that of an outright open and violent Civil War in the GOP and that'd be disastrous for them going into the mid-terms next year.


It's--*snif*--it's beautiful.
 
2013-06-27 08:29:35 PM
Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.
 
2013-06-27 08:30:56 PM

tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.


Needs more sheeple.
 
2013-06-27 08:31:24 PM

tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.


So does this mean I should vote Republican?
 
2013-06-27 08:34:48 PM

tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.


Get some new material.
 
2013-06-27 08:45:51 PM

Close2TheEdge: tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.

Get some new material.


Are you 6?
 
2013-06-27 08:47:57 PM

Mrtraveler01: tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.

So does this mean I should vote Republican?


Voting hasn't mattered since Ike when the CIA and Joint Chiefs took over and set up this facade WE fight over. Vote if it makes you feel better.
 
2013-06-27 08:49:15 PM
and thank god it will
 
2013-06-27 08:51:28 PM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.



I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?
 
2013-06-27 08:51:50 PM

ChaosStar: and thank god it will


Which god supports government travel restrictions?
 
2013-06-27 08:54:08 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Aarontology: I dunno about you guys, but I like this new one. He's got spunk.

I hate spunk
[danoday.com image 276x201]


and pimentos.
 
2013-06-27 08:54:39 PM

jjorsett: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?


They're not a monolith, but if the last election was a sign, they're not likely to vote Republican.

I don't see how fighting Immigration Reform is going to help the GOP as it tries to reach out to Latinos.
 
2013-06-27 08:55:17 PM

tkwasny: Mrtraveler01: tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.

So does this mean I should vote Republican?

Voting hasn't mattered since Ike when the CIA and Joint Chiefs took over and set up this facade WE fight over. Vote if it makes you feel better.


I don't mean to butt in, but this is an old tactic. Go to a site that's mostly Liberal, lamely try to convince people not to vote, and then vote straight ticket GOP yourself every election. The only people that don't want other people to vote or tell people voting is a waste of time are REPUBLICANS. Admit it, you vote straight ticket GOP every time, don't you? Try to tell the truth for once. If you can.
 
2013-06-27 08:55:39 PM
We've got plenty of room and less narco-terrorism. Quit being racist. If your skillset means you have trouble competing with a recent immigrant that doesn't speak the language, that's on you, loser.
 
2013-06-27 08:55:39 PM

Close2TheEdge: "Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.


Because it's a blatantly partisan issue.  All the Democrats care about is turning illegals into Democrat voters and all the Republicans care about is preventing that.

If the illegal immigrant vote was 50/50 or close to it, the Republicans would be ALL OVER this issue and the Democrats would hate it.  Why, you may ask.  Because an endless supply of cheap labor increases corporate profits and decimates what's left of organized labor.

Both sides are openly opposed to their base, solely because votes are at stake.
 
2013-06-27 08:56:07 PM
Can we see some non-illegal immigrant reform too please? The current system sucks.
 
2013-06-27 08:58:43 PM

FlashHarry: StopLurkListen: Immigration Reform Is Driving Republicans Insane
"Democrats are fighting to pass a bill because it's the right thing to do, even though they'll probably take an electoral hit from it. Republicans are fighting to kill a bill, even though it would be an electoral winner, because a small part of their base hates it. It's basically electoral suicide because they simply can't get out from under the tea party elephant that's strangling the life out of them. They built a monster, and now it's turned on them." -- Kevin Drum

democrats: country before party
republicans: party before country

that's all you really need to know.


Reality... Democrats = maintain power no matter what..
               Republicans = can't walk and chew gum at the same time..
 We need immigration reform badly.. but we need to put the farking doors back on the barn and lock them before we restock it... Secure the border first.. and this bill has provisions that allow the executive branch to waive just about any part of it.. we have laws about securing the borders.. they are being ignored, just as the new laws will be ignored... what we will have is millions of new Democrat voters.. can't fight Santa Claus.......
 
2013-06-27 08:59:27 PM

tkwasny: Mrtraveler01: tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.

So does this mean I should vote Republican?

Voting hasn't mattered since Ike when the CIA and Joint Chiefs took over and set up this facade WE fight over. Vote if it makes you feel better.


You're insane if you expect anyone to believe that the GOP is faking the hate that they have for Clinton and Obama.
 
2013-06-27 09:00:35 PM

tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.


And whose precious little alt are you?
 
2013-06-27 09:01:43 PM

MexicanNerd: vernonFL: make me some tea: the few reasonable Republicans left:

Yeah, those are mostly the sane moderates.

And one maverick

John McCain

He flip-flopped on that, too.
 
2013-06-27 09:03:33 PM

Smackledorfer: ChaosStar: and thank god it will

Which god supports government travel restrictions?


Cthulhu, obviously.
 
2013-06-27 09:05:32 PM

jjorsett: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?


To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.  And since something like a fifth of the Latinos in the country are illegal and a bunch of the others are family/friends/etc of that fifth, I could see WHY latinos would be assumed to be monolithic on this issue.

/Asians don't count, since they're functionally culturally and economically white with different food at this point.
 
2013-06-27 09:06:47 PM

meyerkev: jjorsett: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.  And since something like a fifth of the Latinos in the country are illegal and a bunch of the others are family/friends/etc of that fifth, I could see WHY latinos would be assumed to be monolithic on this issue.

/Asians don't count, since they're functionally culturally and economically white with different food at this point.


It's not monolithic so much as "We have zero reason to vote for the other guy who openly loathes us."
 
2013-06-27 09:09:46 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.

"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?


Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....
 
2013-06-27 09:09:48 PM

meyerkev: jjorsett: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.  And since something like a fifth of the Latinos in the country are illegal and a bunch of the others are family/friends/etc of that fifth, I could see WHY latinos would be assumed to be monolithic on this issue.

/Asians don't count, since they're functionally culturally and economically white with different food at this point.


How can you not successfully integrate and then end up President?
 
2013-06-27 09:11:42 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: "Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?

Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....


So no then?
 
2013-06-27 09:12:06 PM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.



MAYBE, just MAYBE, the working people who have been paying into the system will end up getting less of what they have been working for to give to those that haven't done a thing for it.   What about the legal immigrants that get in line and follow the rules like they did 40/50 years ago where you had to actually get a job before you became a citizen.   Friggin hand-out liberals....
 
2013-06-27 09:16:21 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.

"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?

Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....


I've often noticed that those with a conservative lean tend to wonder a great bit about male genitalia.  Why is that?
 
2013-06-27 09:17:09 PM

Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.

"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?

Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....

I've often noticed that those with a conservative lean tend to wonder a great bit about male genitalia.  Why is that?


Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?
 
2013-06-27 09:18:01 PM

biffstallion: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


MAYBE, just MAYBE, the working people who have been paying into the system will end up getting less of what they have been working for to give to those that haven't done a thing for it.   What about the legal immigrants that get in line and follow the rules like they did 40/50 years ago where you had to actually get a job before you became a citizen.   Friggin hand-out liberals....


As much as you'd like it, the world is not the same as it was 40-50 years ago.  Let it go, live in the present, stop clinging to a fantasy past that never truly existed.

Because if you think illegal immigration is something relatively 'new'...as in, newer than 40-50 years ago...then you're a farking moron.
 
2013-06-27 09:18:36 PM

Close2TheEdge: Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.


Same thing they did on the budget "OMG!! I can't do this, Obama and the senate has to do the work!!"

Then after they do "OMG! How dare the Senate and Obama do this. Us at the house need to deal with it."

Then when he fails he will find some reason to blame Obama for it.

He is the worst speaker I have ever seen in my life time. He has no ability to get anything passed.
 
2013-06-27 09:20:43 PM

Corvus: Close2TheEdge: Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.

Same thing they did on the budget "OMG!! I can't do this, Obama and the senate has to do the work!!"

Then after they do "OMG! How dare the Senate and Obama do this. Us at the house need to deal with it."

Then when he fails he will find some reason to blame Obama for it.

He is the worst speaker I have ever seen in my life time. He has no ability to get anything passed.


He's effectively being held hostage by the Tea Derper members of his caucus.  He can't do anything to advance an agenda because 'their' agenda is to do nothing and scream NO at the top of their lungs...because, somehow, they got the idea that government is evil and needs to be killed off.
 
2013-06-27 09:22:18 PM

WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.


Yep, it's unfortunate that compromising principles and buying votes with handouts don't come as naturally to Republicans as they do to Democrats.
 
2013-06-27 09:22:55 PM

tkwasny: Close2TheEdge: tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.

Get some new material.

Are you 6?


Uh no.  And I manage to post without reusing a half dozen cliches.  Keep working at it and maybe you can too.
 
2013-06-27 09:27:06 PM

Mrtraveler01: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.

"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?

Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....

I've often noticed that those with a conservative lean tend to wonder a great bit about male genitalia.  Why is that?

Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?


I'm gonna guess it makes you gay marriage material.
 
2013-06-27 09:28:43 PM

cchris_39: Close2TheEdge: "Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.

Because it's a blatantly partisan issue.  All the Democrats care about is turning illegals into Democrat voters and all the Republicans care about is preventing that.

If the illegal immigrant vote was 50/50 or close to it, the Republicans would be ALL OVER this issue and the Democrats would hate it.  Why, you may ask.  Because an endless supply of cheap labor increases corporate profits and decimates what's left of organized labor.

Both sides are openly opposed to their base, solely because votes are at stake.


You know, I don't deny that there is some political motivation to this.  But it is profoundly cynical to think that the only motivation Democrats have for supporting this legislation is votes.  And it's profoundly cynical to think that all Republicans don't give a rat's ass about the plight of immigrants in this country.
 
2013-06-27 09:29:21 PM
is this the one that nationalizes 401(k)s in the subtext of it?
 
2013-06-27 09:29:23 PM

Infernalist: Corvus: Close2TheEdge: Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.

Same thing they did on the budget "OMG!! I can't do this, Obama and the senate has to do the work!!"

Then after they do "OMG! How dare the Senate and Obama do this. Us at the house need to deal with it."

Then when he fails he will find some reason to blame Obama for it.

He is the worst speaker I have ever seen in my life time. He has no ability to get anything passed.

He's effectively being held hostage by the Tea Derper members of his caucus.  He can't do anything to advance an agenda because 'their' agenda is to do nothing and scream NO at the top of their lungs...because, somehow, they got the idea that government is evil and needs to be killed off.


He could swing a minority of his party to work with the Democrats to pass a moderate version of most things they want, and then tout to the base that he managed to accomplish x, y and z even when his own party was trying to destroy him...

In stead he's choosing to let the country burn so as to avoid picking the hard fight.

He's a pussy.
 
2013-06-27 09:31:31 PM

BlippityBleep: is this the one that nationalizes 401(k)s in the subtext of it?


I farkin' wish.
 
2013-06-27 09:31:33 PM
Once again the Senate is so serious about an important issue they fill the bill with more pork than Oscar Mayer produces.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/Immigration-Bill- Ri ddled-With-Pork
 
2013-06-27 09:38:04 PM

Rhino_man: Infernalist: Corvus: Close2TheEdge: Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.

Same thing they did on the budget "OMG!! I can't do this, Obama and the senate has to do the work!!"

Then after they do "OMG! How dare the Senate and Obama do this. Us at the house need to deal with it."

Then when he fails he will find some reason to blame Obama for it.

He is the worst speaker I have ever seen in my life time. He has no ability to get anything passed.

He's effectively being held hostage by the Tea Derper members of his caucus.  He can't do anything to advance an agenda because 'their' agenda is to do nothing and scream NO at the top of their lungs...because, somehow, they got the idea that government is evil and needs to be killed off.

He could swing a minority of his party to work with the Democrats to pass a moderate version of most things they want, and then tout to the base that he managed to accomplish x, y and z even when his own party was trying to destroy him...

In stead he's choosing to let the country burn so as to avoid picking the hard fight.

He's a pussy.


They would eat him alive.  They've spent the last 5 years proclaiming him to be the Anti-Christ, a traitor, a foreigner pretending to be President, the empty suit that's single-handedly destroying America and 'now' the base sees him as Satan himself.

And they dare not make a deal with the Devil, not in front of their base.  Those that do that are treated as traitors and apostates and actively worked against and primaried at the first opportunity.

The best part is that Obama himself warned them that this would happen as a result.  He stood in front of the assembled House and told them, on live TV, that they can't vilify him and then expect that their GOP voters will let them work with him to govern the nation.

So..no.  No, he can't work with Obama.  He's effectively painted himself into a political corner.  And if he lets them tear the party apart, he could lose his spot to someone even worse for the party...Like Cantor or Paul.
 
2013-06-27 09:38:14 PM

ferretman: Once again the Senate is so serious about an important issue they fill the bill with more pork than Oscar Mayer produces.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/Immigration-Bill- Ri ddled-With-Pork


Yeah... pork like this:
From the USA Today article: One provision tucked into the deal brokered by Republican Sens. Bob Corker of Tennessee and John Hoeven of North Dakota, for instance, would allow Alaska's seafood processors to employ foreign youngsters on a summer-work travel program - overturning a ban the Obama administration put in place last year to protect foreign exchange students from jobs the U.S. government deems dangerous.

Another measure would designate fish processing in the state a "shortage occupation," allowing the industry to quickly hire more overseas seasonal workers under a new "W" guest-worker visa program created by the bill. Alaska Sens. Lisa Murkowski, a Republican, and Mark Begich, a Democrat, successfully pushed for the language.


Wait... this isn't pork... IT'S FISH!
 
2013-06-27 09:38:44 PM
People are replying to this coont:

file.walagata.com
 
2013-06-27 09:40:35 PM

ferretman: Once again the Senate is so serious about an important issue they fill the bill with more pork than Oscar Mayer produces.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/Immigration-Bill- Ri ddled-With-Pork


psst.  The GOP have released numerous statements saying that they're opposed to Immigration Reform itself.  They've promised to kill the bill simply because they don't want Immigration Reform at all, in any form or fashion.

Also, linking to breitbart is like linking to lemonparty or tubgirl.  No one's going to click it and they're going to instantly revile you for trying to get them to do so.
 
2013-06-27 09:45:38 PM

Corvus: xaldin: Has anyone even looked at what Mexico's, or any central/south america country's policies are? We're a free for all in comparison.

I have lived on the Mexican border all my life. Most of the time I had to walk through a turn style fence (no passport or anything). Last time I crossed I just showed a passport.


On the Mexican side? Are you a born American? Do you own property there if so? Just curious I think its pretty interesting you must save money in property taxes.
 
2013-06-27 09:46:26 PM

kombat_unit: So, businesses that rely on exploiting illegals are going to suddenly only employee legal workers?


As someone that lives in red border state, namely, Arizona, let me offer these suggestions.

I spent several years in the hotel industry. I never saw an application for housekeeping from a white person. The folks that did apply were Hispanic and had  "documentation".  We copied their ID and SS card. It wasn't up to us as employers to decide if documentation was real. That only happened if immigration came by. Then, we were only trouble if it the documentation was fake, and immigration came back and we were still employing them.

These folks claimed so many deductions that only social security and medicare were withheld.

The truth is that most illegals aren't paid cash. The Home Depot parking lot scenario is miniscule and an employer can only claim a certain amount for casual labor.

It makes no sense to think all these people are paid under the table. Wages are deductible as an expense for the employer. A simple way to fix this is that no one can can claim deductions unless they file. You have 5 dependents? Fine. Claim them when you file and prove it. If they don't, the government gets their money.

And, let's not forget these people can open bank accounts and cash their checks. That's not a question of citizenship to open a bank account. Banks have more money to lend overnight.

In the mean time, let's get the people on the actual rolls.
 
2013-06-27 09:47:17 PM

vernonFL: make me some tea: the few reasonable Republicans left:

Yeah, those are mostly the sane moderates.


Also known as "RINOs."  To be a REAL Republican you have to bathe in the blood of brown-skinned lesbians, apparently.
 
2013-06-27 09:51:44 PM

Rhino_man: Infernalist: Corvus: Close2TheEdge: Here is what John Boehner said back in February.

"The president likes to attack Congress, but if he is serious about
enacting his agenda, I think it must start in the part of this Congress
that his party controls, the United States Senate," Boehner said. "What
can he get passed in the United States Senate?"

Now he says:

"Apparently some haven't gotten the message: The House is not going to
take up and vote on whatever the Senate passes. We're going to do our
own bill -- through regular order -- and move the legislation that
reflects the will of our majority and the will of the American people,"

I challenge any of the conservatrolls on FARK to defend this.

Same thing they did on the budget "OMG!! I can't do this, Obama and the senate has to do the work!!"

Then after they do "OMG! How dare the Senate and Obama do this. Us at the house need to deal with it."

Then when he fails he will find some reason to blame Obama for it.

He is the worst speaker I have ever seen in my life time. He has no ability to get anything passed.

He's effectively being held hostage by the Tea Derper members of his caucus.  He can't do anything to advance an agenda because 'their' agenda is to do nothing and scream NO at the top of their lungs...because, somehow, they got the idea that government is evil and needs to be killed off.

He could swing a minority of his party to work with the Democrats to pass a moderate version of most things they want, and then tout to the base that he managed to accomplish x, y and z even when his own party was trying to destroy him...

In stead he's choosing to let the country burn so as to avoid picking the hard fight.

He's a pussy.


Exactly. He could do that.

He could say to the teatards "You guys have two choices get on the bandwagon and vote for moderate Republican bills OR force me to work with Democrats."

But that's called leadership and he doesn't have that.
 
2013-06-27 09:52:48 PM

jaerik: meyerkev: jjorsett: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.  And since something like a fifth of the Latinos in the country are illegal and a bunch of the others are family/friends/etc of that fifth, I could see WHY latinos would be assumed to be monolithic on this issue.

/Asians don't count, since they're functionally culturally and economically white with different food at this point.

How can you not successfully integrate and then end up President?


Dunno.   But in my experiences (and these are generalizations.  There were exceptions to every rule), they by and large haven't.

My high school near Detroit:

* Whites and Asians: functionally equal.  Asians did more math/science and less band/English, but were functionally socially and culturally equal to the white kids.  There was actually a bigger split amongst whites where about a half to a third of the whites didn't do honors/AP courses and functionally became a separate caste (which then got codified under "Where did you go to college?").
* Blacks: Totally not integrated (barring the 10% who were insanely integrated).  About 10% of them were the leaders and best (We had 3 black kids in all of band.  1 became a drum major and one was a section leader) and about 80% were utter failures who acted like they were straight out of the ghetto (Of the 4 black kids in my freshman bio class, 3 failed.  1 was a senior on his 4th try).
* Hispanics: What hispanics?  They can't afford to live in Oakland county.

College (CS degree):
* Whites and Asians:  Functionally equal.  About 80/20 white/asian (though the asians provided way more girls, so girls were probably 30/70).
* Blacks and hispanics: What blacks and hispanics?  There weren't very many.  Good news is that once you had made it into the University and onto North Campus, you were functionally implied to be competent as well as fairly non-political (in the "I don't care about your issues.  I have too much work to do." way), and so the few that showed up were integrated.  (We won't talk about the idiots from BAMN who tried to recruit every once in a while.  They were from Central Campus, and weren't engineers.  Central Campus people in general be cray-cray.  So happy we were 20 minutes by bus and an hour by foot away.)

/Hint: If you want diversity in CS, start here.  It's already about 90% male and 95% White/asian.  You can't get blood from a stone.

Silicon Valley:
Whites and Asians: Programmers and CEO's.  Filthy, incredibly stinking rich.  Probably 80/20.
Hispanics: Maids, janitors.  Decent chance they don't speak English.  There are exceptions, but almost never amongst first-gen immigrants.  And by the time they get to be rich and integrated, they're Oscar from The Office.
Blacks: The very few of them largely sit in ghetto poverty in East Palo Alto, and never venture out except for mandated busing to other high schools (Acc. to my roommate, San Carlos schools now suck because of this and everyone who can afford it goes to private high school) or their retail jobs elsewhere in the valley.

/My current company is 10 males, of whom 2 are asian (both business), and 8 are white.
//The company we're renting offices from is about 85% male, and the only black or hispanic people in the building are the janitors who come in about 7:00.
///Don't try to tell me that this is integrated
 
2013-06-27 09:53:01 PM

Bahleted: Corvus: xaldin: Has anyone even looked at what Mexico's, or any central/south america country's policies are? We're a free for all in comparison.

I have lived on the Mexican border all my life. Most of the time I had to walk through a turn style fence (no passport or anything). Last time I crossed I just showed a passport.

On the Mexican side? Are you a born American? Do you own property there if so? Just curious I think its pretty interesting you must save money in property taxes.


No on the US side. I am pointing out that the stupid "It's harder to get in Mexico then the US" meme of the right is total bullshiat.
 
2013-06-27 10:00:17 PM
You know who else was against immigration?
 
2013-06-27 10:03:05 PM

Corvus: Bahleted: Corvus: xaldin: Has anyone even looked at what Mexico's, or any central/south america country's policies are? We're a free for all in comparison.

I have lived on the Mexican border all my life. Most of the time I had to walk through a turn style fence (no passport or anything). Last time I crossed I just showed a passport.

On the Mexican side? Are you a born American? Do you own property there if so? Just curious I think its pretty interesting you must save money in property taxes.

No on the US side. I am pointing out that the stupid "It's harder to get in Mexico then the US" meme of the right is total bullshiat.


I'm pretty sure the point is that Mexico has more restrictions for non Mexican born citizens when it comes to property rights, healthcare, etc. Not that they don't let people in.
 
2013-06-27 10:13:39 PM

Mrtraveler01: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.

"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?

Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....

I've often noticed that those with a conservative lean tend to wonder a great bit about male genitalia.  Why is that?

Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?


Husband material.
 
2013-06-27 10:22:52 PM

Gyrfalcon: Mrtraveler01: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.

"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?

Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....

I've often noticed that those with a conservative lean tend to wonder a great bit about male genitalia.  Why is that?

Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?

Husband material.


But it has to be a gay marriage
 
2013-06-27 10:24:35 PM
why i love fark:

not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.

i mean, you literally know nothing, but the discussion is always so profound, so all knowing, so partisan.
thanks fark, for another night of deep laughter and hilarity.
 
2013-06-27 10:28:16 PM

frymeupasteak: why i love fark:

not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.

i mean, you literally know nothing, but the discussion is always so profound, so all knowing, so partisan.
thanks fark, for another night of deep laughter and hilarity.


So, you didn't read the bill either? And vote Republican?
 
2013-06-27 10:29:42 PM

frymeupasteak: why i love fark:

not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.

i mean, you literally know nothing, but the discussion is always so profound, so all knowing, so partisan.
thanks fark, for another night of deep laughter and hilarity.


But you get to feel superior, so there's that
 
2013-06-27 10:32:55 PM
Has anyone noted the amount of money spent to secure the Canadian border?? I'm waaaay to busy to read about the issues of Southerns afraid to pull a trigger.
 
2013-06-27 10:33:12 PM
meyerkev:

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.

Did you just say that black people have not successfully integrated into the mainstream US population. Tell me you did not just say that thing.
 
2013-06-27 10:37:45 PM
Still waiting for a response to my question -

The way I see it we have many problems, in no particular order
1)People brought here as kids
2)People living off the radar
3)Exploitation of workers
4)Poorly metered influx of people who, by their own presence, depress wages.
5)Social support of those people
(Am I missing any issues?)
I don't know the full text of the bill.  How does this bill affect or address these issues?

--------

Or are we gonna circle jerk with the trolls instead?
 
2013-06-27 10:39:20 PM

frymeupasteak: why i love fark:

not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.

i mean, you literally know nothing, but the discussion is always so profound, so all knowing, so partisan.
thanks fark, for another night of deep laughter and hilarity.


This.
 
2013-06-27 10:41:29 PM

frymeupasteak: not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.


Well you're more than welcome to provide the facts to us to back up these claims if you wish.

Take your time, I'll wait.
 
2013-06-27 10:42:06 PM

gaspode: meyerkev:

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.

Did you just say that black people have not successfully integrated into the mainstream US population. Tell me you did not just say that thing.


They're too busy using their Obamaphones and eating watermelon to integrate.

/Christ, what an asshole.
 
2013-06-27 10:42:25 PM

gaspode: meyerkev:

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.

Did you just say that black people have not successfully integrated into the mainstream US population. Tell me you did not just say that thing.


You're the real racist for noticing his racism.
 
2013-06-27 10:43:33 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: frymeupasteak: why i love fark:

not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.

i mean, you literally know nothing, but the discussion is always so profound, so all knowing, so partisan.
thanks fark, for another night of deep laughter and hilarity.

This.


Gosh, you two are just so hip and edgy.
 
2013-06-27 10:52:06 PM

KeatingFive: Gosh, you two are just so hip and edgy.

I know jack shiat so I'm gonna just make fun of you.


Fixed
 
2013-06-27 10:54:53 PM
The problem Republicans love to ignore:

That they believe that they're being mature and seriously addressing the issue that you need enforcement, and liberals are just naive idiots who think everything can magically get better overnight.

Really, though, just because some are that way, doesn't mean the Republicans aren't just as bad.

You know what we need to realize? That the root of illegal immigration is - surprise - the desire to emigrate. And all the reasons for it. And that in the past, we've shown the best successes when we encourage emigration, going to and becoming American. We've kind of screwed up with that recently (Bilingual schools shouldn't happen - learn English, it's a necessity), but fences aren't the answer either. We're never going to be able to perfectly monitor the border. Too many humans, with their creative problem-solving abilities, are going to want to cross over. Funnel them into WORKING programs that let them come, get them to pay taxes, get them to -become- American, and then...that's it. They're American now. That should be the goal.
 
2013-06-27 11:20:33 PM

make me some tea: Also, may I present the few reasonable Republicans left:

[fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net image 810x810]


I am glad that both of my senators voted for this.  Most impressed.
 
2013-06-27 11:26:58 PM
Gyrfalcon: Mrtraveler01: Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?

Husband material.


I see. What about a former Republican who cooks for living, and writes on the side?
 
2013-06-27 11:33:08 PM

hubiestubert: Gyrfalcon: Mrtraveler01: Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?

Husband material.

I see. What about a former Republican who cooks for living, and writes on the side?


Are you looking for a husband?
 
2013-06-27 11:35:03 PM
They want to be Americans fine we move our Amy south. Now we are all Americans go pick my crops
 
2013-06-27 11:37:33 PM

WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.


The lesson was dont work with magic skivies those people are nuts
 
2013-06-27 11:45:55 PM

bwilson27: hubiestubert: Gyrfalcon: Mrtraveler01: Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?

Husband material.

I see. What about a former Republican who cooks for living, and writes on the side?

Are you looking for a husband?


Being in Western Mass, oddly enough, if I was looking, it wouldn't be that hard.
 
2013-06-27 11:49:01 PM

Infernalist: meyerkev: jjorsett: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.  And since something like a fifth of the Latinos in the country are illegal and a bunch of the others are family/friends/etc of that fifth, I could see WHY latinos would be assumed to be monolithic on this issue.

/Asians don't count, since they're functionally culturally and economically white with different food at this point.

It's not monolithic so much as "We have zero reason to vote for the other guy who openly loathes us."


Al boils down to free stuff, period. Democrats promise free stuff in exchange for votes. Need more taxes to pay for that stuff, punish hard working Americans. Won't end, and country will collapse financially within the next couple decades. Simple math.

Immigration reform as it stands will cost us trillions of taxpayer dollars. Will further increase minority populations until they are the majority, somewhere around 2040. Then who will they blame when they control everything, nobody works, and crime is rampant?
 
2013-06-28 12:03:20 AM

gaspode: meyerkev:

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.

Did you just say that black people have not successfully integrated into the mainstream US population. Tell me you did not just say that thing.


He is probably from rochester hills.

So he knew a few lower upper class blacks and a few just barely out of pontiac.
 
2013-06-28 12:33:23 AM

I HATE LIBS: answer the question liberals.


How about "no"?  Does "no" work for you?
 
2013-06-28 12:47:53 AM

Craptastic: People are replying to this coont:


Not me, he's on my 'ignore' list, You are kinder in your farkle than I.
 
2013-06-28 12:48:41 AM
I see 68 traitors who need to be indicted, convicted and punished for treason...
 
2013-06-28 12:53:19 AM

kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "

[img0.joyreactor.cc image 600x314]


/let them follow the law to get citizenship.


Which they can't get without this bill.
 
2013-06-28 12:58:02 AM

Alphax: kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "

[img0.joyreactor.cc image 600x314]


/let them follow the law to get citizenship.

Which they can't get without this bill.


Sure they can. They get gtfo of the country, and do it legally like other people do.
 
2013-06-28 01:00:07 AM
The bill dies in the house because the republicans do not want the latino vote, and they know they can't get it with just this bill. State and Federal level GOP members have been branding their xenophobia for years now. This one bill isn't going to help that image much.

I hate to be so cynical, but i'd argue that the republicans in the senate that did vote for this bill are doing so for the good of the party (so they think) or to help save their seats. 

I wonder how their crazy base is going to deal with this. If republicans pass this in the house, i think we might actually start to see tangible fragments appear in the GOP party. Will the republican big wigs let that happen?

I don't know.
 
2013-06-28 01:00:37 AM

Testiclaw: theorellior: gingerjet: All my H-1B employees and their 100k+ salaries would disagree with you. The US sucks at training engineers.

Maybe you just didn't look hard enough?

Has he ever tried to just hire new engineering grads and train them the way you want them?

Maybe invest in them a bit and invest in American employment, as well?

Maybe give grads a reason to want to work hard and make it to your company when they graduate?


We get baby engineers as interns(paid!) or a few years out of school, and train them up, because our company does such strange shiat there isn't "school" for it.

We also promote from within for people who can learn new things.

/we work four tens, too.
//boooyah, Thursday is the better Friday.
 
2013-06-28 01:06:27 AM

Dahnkster: Craptastic: People are replying to this coont:

Not me, he's on my 'ignore' list, You are kinder in your farkle than I.


His is succinct

/mine is descriptive
 
2013-06-28 01:16:19 AM

kendelrio: Anayalator: kendelrio: So this bill will let the current estimated eleven million (11,000,000) illegals bypass the law to become citizens.

"Landmark immigration reform bill passes the Senate by a wide margin. Now it's off to die in the House "

[img0.joyreactor.cc image 600x314]


/let them follow the law to get citizenship.

psssst...hey...a bill  becomeslaw, it doesn't bypass it. Just so you know.

Yes, I saw the cartoons as a kid too.... The point I'm making is why reward their breaking of the law????


The Law is stupid and it sucks.

What do?
 
2013-06-28 01:20:02 AM

tkwasny: Mrtraveler01: tkwasny: Such a deeply partisan democrat site this place is. Filled with hate for anyone that dare oppose their pack. Even though not a single person read the bill, its all good, shut up lock-step-goose step in line everyone. Don't you all realize both parties are 2 sides of the same coin playing you with good cop / bad cop, each with their strawmen? Sheesh.

So does this mean I should vote Republican?

Voting hasn't mattered since Ike when the CIA and Joint Chiefs took over and set up this facade WE fight over. Vote if it makes you feel better.


LOL!  Oh wow..
 
2013-06-28 01:25:40 AM

fartacus: WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.

Yep, it's unfortunate that compromising principles and buying votes with handouts don't come as naturally to Republicans as they do to Democrats.


Do Republicans have any principles that aren't evil?
 
2013-06-28 01:34:15 AM

Thunderpipes: Immigration reform as it stands will cost us trillions of taxpayer dollars. Will further increase minority populations until they are the majority, somewhere around 2040. Then who will they blame when they control everything, nobody works, and crime is rampant?


So you're saying minorities, when left to their own devices, naturally tend to be lazy, not work, and commit crimes. but you're totally not racist.
 
2013-06-28 01:37:13 AM

FlashHarry: and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation


You mean the illegal immigrant vote?  As in the people who can't vote to begin with?
 
2013-06-28 01:40:56 AM

mike_the_engineer: FlashHarry: and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation

You mean the illegal immigrant vote?  As in the people who can't vote to begin with?


No, the majority who were born here.
 
2013-06-28 01:43:01 AM

log_jammin: Thunderpipes: Immigration reform as it stands will cost us trillions of taxpayer dollars. Will further increase minority populations until they are the majority, somewhere around 2040. Then who will they blame when they control everything, nobody works, and crime is rampant?

So you're saying minorities, when left to their own devices, naturally tend to be lazy, not work, and commit crimes. but you're totally not racist.


He isn't a real person, he is a made up persona.
 
2013-06-28 01:44:10 AM

Bonzo_1116: Testiclaw: theorellior: gingerjet: All my H-1B employees and their 100k+ salaries would disagree with you. The US sucks at training engineers.

Maybe you just didn't look hard enough?

Has he ever tried to just hire new engineering grads and train them the way you want them?

Maybe invest in them a bit and invest in American employment, as well?

Maybe give grads a reason to want to work hard and make it to your company when they graduate?

We get baby engineers as interns(paid!) or a few years out of school, and train them up, because our company does such strange shiat there isn't "school" for it.

We also promote from within for people who can learn new things.

/we work four tens, too.
//boooyah, Thursday is the better Friday.


Any internships for baby engineers of the Mechanical variety?

/will be sending out internship resumes next summer
//would prefer to start my own company bent on world domination
///people will make great lubricant for my machines of war
 
2013-06-28 01:52:24 AM

jst3p: log_jammin: Thunderpipes: Immigration reform as it stands will cost us trillions of taxpayer dollars. Will further increase minority populations until they are the majority, somewhere around 2040. Then who will they blame when they control everything, nobody works, and crime is rampant?

So you're saying minorities, when left to their own devices, naturally tend to be lazy, not work, and commit crimes. but you're totally not racist.

He isn't a real person, he is a made up persona.


an alt or something?
 
2013-06-28 01:59:50 AM

ferretman: Once again the Senate is so serious about an important issue they fill the bill with more pork than Oscar Mayer produces.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/Immigration-Bill- Ri ddled-With-Pork


Breitbart?  Really?  Was Weekly World News too busy with an Elvis sighting?
 
2013-06-28 02:00:21 AM
Off topic, but I'm once again getting that bug in IE 8(which I wish I wasn't using) where I only can see the top 8 headlines on each tab.
 
2013-06-28 02:02:20 AM

Alphax: Off topic, but I'm once again getting that bug in IE 8(which I wish I wasn't using) where I only can see the top 8 headlines on each tab.


You get what you deserve.
 
2013-06-28 02:17:03 AM

Alphax: Off topic, but I'm once again getting that bug in IE 8(which I wish I wasn't using) where I only can see the top 8 headlines on each tab.


bwilson27: You get what you deserve.

Or you could do something useful instead of mocking what clearly was not their decision.

Alphax, have you considered running Firefox or Chrome off of a jump drive?  No installation required, handy for when you're using work or school computers.  http://portableapps.com/
 
2013-06-28 02:23:46 AM

jm105: Alphax: Off topic, but I'm once again getting that bug in IE 8(which I wish I wasn't using) where I only can see the top 8 headlines on each tab.

bwilson27: You get what you deserve.

Or you could do something useful instead of mocking what clearly was not their decision.

Alphax, have you considered running Firefox or Chrome off of a jump drive?  No installation required, handy for when you're using work or school computers.  http://portableapps.com/


We actually had Chrome on this work PC for a few months, not sure who put it there, but it was nice.  Then it wouldn't start after that really bad weather a few weeks back, with the thunderstorms and tornadoes that made the national news, and it took them a while to get around to doing a complete reinstall from scratch.

(also, the Fark admins fixed the problem at their end last time, and thanked me for the feedback)
 
2013-06-28 02:24:35 AM

Uranus Is Huge!: We've got plenty of room and less narco-terrorism. Quit being racist. If your skillset means you have trouble competing with a recent immigrant that doesn't speak the language, that's on you, loser.


THIS x1000

This is America (f*ck yeah), we're exceptional.  Now prove it, you slacker.

Be more awesome than the other guy.
 
2013-06-28 02:31:58 AM
Eh, I just went and installed Chrome.. thought I'd run into a barrier of some kind, but nope.

Still, someone should look at that IE 8 bug again.
 
2013-06-28 02:32:54 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: ferretman: Once again the Senate is so serious about an important issue they fill the bill with more pork than Oscar Mayer produces.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/Immigration-Bill- Ri ddled-With-Pork

Yeah... pork like this:
From the USA Today article: One provision tucked into the deal brokered by Republican Sens. Bob Corker of Tennessee and John Hoeven of North Dakota, for instance, would allow Alaska's seafood processors to employ foreign youngsters on a summer-work travel program - overturning a ban the Obama administration put in place last year to protect foreign exchange students from jobs the U.S. government deems dangerous.

Another measure would designate fish processing in the state a "shortage occupation," allowing the industry to quickly hire more overseas seasonal workers under a new "W" guest-worker visa program created by the bill. Alaska Sens. Lisa Murkowski, a Republican, and Mark Begich, a Democrat, successfully pushed for the language.

Wait... this isn't pork... IT'S FISH!


LOLOLOLOL

Dangerous, yet notoriously high-paying jobs that the Obama admin wanted to hold for Americans, these shiatstains voted AGAINST?  What assholes.
 
2013-06-28 02:42:26 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Gyrfalcon: Mrtraveler01: Infernalist: Lt. Cheese Weasel: A Dark Evil Omen: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I like how you think fiscal responsibility is vague nonsense ungrounded in reality.  It's perfect.  It's the straight DNC Kool Aid, without the water.

"Fiscal responsibility"! "Pork"! "Obama poison pills"! Do you have a thought in your head that isn't a far-right bumper sticker?

Yep, I'd rather be a conservative nut job, than a liberal with no nuts and no job. Oh, wait....

I've often noticed that those with a conservative lean tend to wonder a great bit about male genitalia.  Why is that?

Also, I'm a liberal with nuts and a job, what does that make me?

Husband material.

But it has to be a gay marriage


I can do a three way.
 
2013-06-28 02:42:51 AM

Bahleted: Corvus: xaldin: Has anyone even looked at what Mexico's, or any central/south america country's policies are? We're a free for all in comparison.

I have lived on the Mexican border all my life. Most of the time I had to walk through a turn style fence (no passport or anything). Last time I crossed I just showed a passport.

On the Mexican side? Are you a born American? Do you own property there if so? Just curious I think its pretty interesting you must save money in property taxes.


Foreigners can't own Mexican land within 50 miles of the coast without fancy legal bullshiat, but in the inland areas I think it's pretty tasty.  The border wait would be a royal pain in the ass, even with the FastPass.  If you're driving the FastPass is like 1 hour at peak wait instead of 2-3 at peak, so still a royal pain the butt.  Only worth it if you set your own hours, work offshift, or are so rich you don't give a f*ck.


/wait times apply to the San Ysidro[San Diego]/Tijuana crossing, not sure what the wait times are further eastwards.   I read recently that the US Congress ass-f*cked monies for improving the SD/TJ crossing---busiest crossing point in the western hemisphere, and one of the most important in $$$$ for all concerned.
//congress can go f*ck themselves, the shortsighted dipshiats.
///If we had half a brain, Mexico would be our strongest ally.
 
2013-06-28 02:47:49 AM

gaspode: meyerkev:

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.

Did you just say that black people have not successfully integrated into the mainstream US population. Tell me you did not just say that thing.


Jesus Christ, black folks are more "American" than the bulk of white folks in this country, if you're counting generational residence time.

All those Ellis Island biatches need to get to the back of the line.
 
2013-06-28 02:56:44 AM
The way I see it

 
1)  An argument against illegal immigration is not an argument against immigrants or legal immigration. Believe it or not, but a majority of republicans think people who break the law should not get rewarded for it.  It's that easy.

 
2)  Dems want to import 20 million new dem voters to secure a one party system for ever.  If there was even a hint of the 20 million illegals all being potential republicans and NRA members, libs would be building the wall with their bare hands.

 
3)  Any business that wants to sell out Americans for cheaper labor needs to be out of business.   

 
4)  Any political party that wants to sell out Americans for votes needs to be out of business.
 
2013-06-28 02:57:04 AM

Testiclaw: Bonzo_1116: Testiclaw: theorellior: gingerjet: All my H-1B employees and their 100k+ salaries would disagree with you. The US sucks at training engineers.

Maybe you just didn't look hard enough?

Has he ever tried to just hire new engineering grads and train them the way you want them?

Maybe invest in them a bit and invest in American employment, as well?

Maybe give grads a reason to want to work hard and make it to your company when they graduate?

We get baby engineers as interns(paid!) or a few years out of school, and train them up, because our company does such strange shiat there isn't "school" for it.

We also promote from within for people who can learn new things.

/we work four tens, too.
//boooyah, Thursday is the better Friday.

Any internships for baby engineers of the Mechanical variety?

/will be sending out internship resumes next summer
//would prefer to start my own company bent on world domination
///people will make great lubricant for my machines of war


We absolutely farking LOVE mech E, especially if you understand polymers as materials.  It's medical device, so we drown in paperwork to prevent implanting things that kill patients.

On topic: as far as I know, we have no H1B on staff, but shiat-tons of legal immigrants on the payroll.  Because only awesome people immigrate here, and we obey the law.
 
2013-06-28 02:59:49 AM

uselessgit: The way I see it

 
1)  An argument against illegal immigration is not an argument against immigrants or legal immigration. Believe it or not, but a majority of republicans think people who break the law should not get rewarded for it.  It's that easy.

 
2)  Dems want to import 20 million new dem voters to secure a one party system for ever.  If there was even a hint of the 20 million illegals all being potential republicans and NRA members, libs would be building the wall with their bare hands.

 
3)  Any business that wants to sell out Americans for cheaper labor needs to be out of business.   

 
4)  Any political party that wants to sell out Americans for votes needs to be out of business.


I can agree with #3.  #1 acts like they're all felons.. their crime isn't even a misdemeanor.

#2 is pure bullshiat, and #4 doesn't apply.
 
2013-06-28 03:04:49 AM

Bonzo_1116: ///If we had half a brain, Mexico would be our strongest ally.


Second to canada imo, but I concur.  The solution to mexico is not blocking their 3rd-worldliness (which they aren't, really), but closing the drug war and giving them our business instead of places halfway around the world.
 
2013-06-28 03:14:03 AM

Alphax: uselessgit: The way I see it

 
1)  An argument against illegal immigration is not an argument against immigrants or legal immigration. Believe it or not, but a majority of republicans think people who break the law should not get rewarded for it.  It's that easy.

 
2)  Dems want to import 20 million new dem voters to secure a one party system for ever.  If there was even a hint of the 20 million illegals all being potential republicans and NRA members, libs would be building the wall with their bare hands.

 
3)  Any business that wants to sell out Americans for cheaper labor needs to be out of business.   

 
4)  Any political party that wants to sell out Americans for votes needs to be out of business.

I can agree with #3.  #1 acts like they're all felons.. their crime isn't even a misdemeanor.

#2 is pure bullshiat, and #4 doesn't apply.


#3 is crap too, depending on how you read it. If you take a pure moral argument within capitalism, it is wrong to interfere with a business chasing the cheap labor encouraged by competition and profit-seeking (and I highly doubt that useless get, with such a trolltastic post this late in the game, is into the kind of socialism where we go interfering heavily with trade and the labor market).

If you take an amoral argument then how do you define "selling out"? Would it be limited to legal vs. illegal? If that is the case, then point number 3 no longer has any relevance to immigration amnesty, as the newly amnestied would be legal anyways.


I can, however, see why number 4 might apply if we accept that point 2 is even playing a minor part here. Unfortunately, politicians doing what brings them the most votes is exactly what they should be doing in a democracy.  Beyond that the people should be educating themselves and making better decisions. If 20 million more democrat-likely voters through an amnesty program was really a "selling out" of America, then certainly our voters could send a clear message against it, and probably in larger numbers than 20 million.  We have enough non-voters to easily cover that; hell if they weren't a bunch of apathetic morons I imagine it would be cheaper to buy their votes than the immigration bill the senate passed.
 
2013-06-28 03:19:20 AM

Smackledorfer: I can, however, see why number 4 might apply if we accept that point 2 is even playing a minor part here. Unfortunately, politicians doing what brings them the most votes is exactly what they should be doing in a democracy.


Yeah, 'selling out America' for votes.. from Americans.. is nonsense on its face.  It's self contradicting.
 
2013-06-28 03:27:19 AM

Smackledorfer: Bonzo_1116: ///If we had half a brain, Mexico would be our strongest ally.

Second to canada imo, but I concur.  The solution to mexico is not blocking their 3rd-worldliness (which they aren't, really), but closing the drug war and giving them our business instead of places halfway around the world.


In the immortal words of one Barry O, "Could you say that a little louder, Candy?"
 
2013-06-28 03:34:09 AM

Smackledorfer: Bonzo_1116: ///If we had half a brain, Mexico would be our strongest ally.

Second to canada imo, but I concur.  The solution to mexico is not blocking their 3rd-worldliness (which they aren't, really), but closing the drug war and giving them our business instead of places halfway around the world.


Mexico is a bigger (by population) nation and natural economy than Canada.  Canada just happens to share a  language and more colonial history with us by virtue of being a colony of Britain. Except if you live in the southwestern section of the US, in which case we have far more historical and social ties with Mexico that we ever did with Canada.  Huge parts of the US used to truly be Spain/Mexico, and not just in some bullshiat way like the Russians "owned" Alaska.  In some cases local law even reflects this historical fact.

But really, NAFTA was a good idea at heart, Canada and Mexico are our cousins, and usually in the genetic sense.  They *are* family, and we should treat them as such.
 
2013-06-28 03:34:44 AM
If law is the biggest cause of crime, then if you remove the law, there is no crime.  So if you legalize all the current illegals you might think that it's a moot point, but there are still those that will know that people who broke the law got away with it.  Dems want to lock out the republicans, they want a one party system.  They see this as a means to secure that.  Republicans think that if they look pro illegal alien, then dems would stop trying to make the anti-illegal alien = anti-mudskinnedslapdemdarkiesandsendembacktomexicowheretheybelong.  Republicans are just not going to be comfortable with a sudden class of people granted legal status and it won't wash away the crimes commited by them.

Businesses already play loose with the illegal or bs H1B visa crap now, I can't imagine how much they'll suck up more underpaid skilled and/or highly skilled imported workers.  I'm in the software business, and if they could get rid of all us highly paid muricans and give our jobs to underpaid easy to import workers, they would.  This bill allows for it.  The net impact is a lessenig of worth of labor in America, by those already here (legal, naturalized and all else).  We have a high standard of living because we have a lot of high paying jobs.  I see it more as a means to protect that.  I see it as a kind of sell out to give away citizenship to people in exchange for power.  The problem is that this could have a leveling effect of labor across the world, and I don't think we want to go there.  But, since we'll have a one party welfare state, no one else here will care, I suppose.
 
2013-06-28 03:38:11 AM

make me some tea: Also, may I present the RINO Pussies::

[fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net image 810x810]

 
2013-06-28 03:40:10 AM

uselessgit: If law is the biggest cause of crime, then if you remove the law, there is no crime.  So if you legalize all the current illegals you might think that it's a moot point, but there are still those that will know that people who broke the law got away with it.  Dems want to lock out the republicans, they want a one party system.


Stop it, I called you out on that lie already.
 
2013-06-28 03:41:39 AM

FlashHarry: StopLurkListen: Immigration Reform Is Driving Republicans Insane
"Democrats are fighting to pass a bill because it's the right thing to do, even though they'll probably take an electoral hit from it. Republicans are fighting to kill a bill, even though it would be an electoral winner, because a small part of their base hates it. It's basically electoral suicide because they simply can't get out from under the tea party elephant that's strangling the life out of them. They built a monster, and now it's turned on them." -- Kevin Drum

democrats: countryparty before partycountry
republicans: partylynching before  countrydinner

that's all you really need to know.


FTFY
 
2013-06-28 03:57:04 AM
Bullshiat Alphax.  If the mass of illegals were all potential republicans, this bill wouldn't have been written.  Deny all you like, I'm used to liberals never saying what they really think.  You want a one party system.  As a liberal, anything it takes to make sure there is no opposition.  If anyone disagrees with you or other liberals, it automatically means they are wrong, stupid and should be marginalized?  What possible democrat party benefit can happen with an endless supply of democrat voters... that can't POSSIBLY be a factor. I'm sure. Not at all, out of the pure love and goodness in their saintly hearts, dems want to extend a hand to all those poor down-trodden.No other motive at all?Meanwhile evil businesses are looking to exploit cheap labor for their evil greedy greed greed money vaults? (which they are).I can admit there is an unspoken reason they want all the cheap labor, I can't understand why you don't think dems have a similar bent.
 
2013-06-28 04:01:38 AM

uselessgit: Bullshiat Alphax.  If the mass of illegals were all potential republicans, this bill wouldn't have been written.  Deny all you like, I'm used to liberals never saying what they really think.  You want a one party system.  As a liberal, anything it takes to make sure there is no opposition.  If anyone disagrees with you or other liberals, it automatically means they are wrong, stupid and should be marginalized?  What possible democrat party benefit can happen with an endless supply of democrat voters... that can't POSSIBLY be a factor. I'm sure. Not at all, out of the pure love and goodness in their saintly hearts, dems want to extend a hand to all those poor down-trodden.No other motive at all?Meanwhile evil businesses are looking to exploit cheap labor for their evil greedy greed greed money vaults? (which they are).I can admit there is an unspoken reason they want all the cheap labor, I can't understand why you don't think dems have a similar bent.


Paragraphs?  Never mind, there's no actual thoughts to break up.
 
2013-06-28 06:26:36 AM

Britney Spear's Speculum: frymeupasteak: why i love fark:

not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.

i mean, you literally know nothing, but the discussion is always so profound, so all knowing, so partisan.
thanks fark, for another night of deep laughter and hilarity.

This.


Actually, I didn't comment on the bill.  I simply pointed out that John Boehner, back in February, declared that nothing of the President's agenda would come about unless it originated as legislation, and passed in the Senate.  And now, in June, Boehner is now declaring that even though the immigration bill originated and passed in the Senate, it will not even be voted on by the House.

That is a DIRECT contradiction of his previous declaration, and neither of you has risen to defend it with one of your twisted bits of logic.  Boehner lied, not the first time of course, and he is not being called out on it.
 
2013-06-28 06:33:51 AM

sufferpuppet: dear illegals,


ct.fra.bz

I'm sure not volunteering that sales tax/use tax on that web purchase is technically illegal. The for-profit prison industry could help the state recoup all that lost revenue from internet sales by charging tax on incarceration services for sales tax scofflaws.

To profit even more, the money making prisons could hire illegals at a lower pay scale.
 
2013-06-28 07:23:50 AM

Close2TheEdge: Britney Spear's Speculum: frymeupasteak: why i love fark:

not one of you has read the bill. not one of you really knows what is going on behind closed doors in washington dc. not one of you has any idea of the amount of pork, which means cronyism, money to relatives and donors and lobbyists and corporations and kickbacks to the politician etc etc that accompanies this and all bills.

i mean, you literally know nothing, but the discussion is always so profound, so all knowing, so partisan.
thanks fark, for another night of deep laughter and hilarity.

This.

Actually, I didn't comment on the bill.  I simply pointed out that John Boehner, back in February, declared that nothing of the President's agenda would come about unless it originated as legislation, and passed in the Senate.  And now, in June, Boehner is now declaring that even though the immigration bill originated and passed in the Senate, it will not even be voted on by the House.

That is a DIRECT contradiction of his previous declaration, and neither of you has risen to defend it with one of your twisted bits of logic.  Boehner lied, not the first time of course, and he is not being called out on it.


He's a politician
You're gonna have to come up with something better than that to raise the ire of either side of the aisle.
 
2013-06-28 07:44:45 AM
Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.
 
2013-06-28 07:47:00 AM

JunkyJu: Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.


This 'breaking the law' talking point is retarded.
 
2013-06-28 07:50:24 AM

StopLurkListen: Immigration Reform Is Driving Republicans Insane
"Democrats are fighting to pass a bill because it's the right thing to do, even though they'll probably take an electoral hit from it. Republicans are fighting to kill a bill, even though it would be an electoral winner, because a small part of their base hates it. It's basically electoral suicide because they simply can't get out from under the tea party elephant that's strangling the life out of them. They built a monster, and now it's turned on them." -- Kevin Drum


I like it....very well said. I'd hate to see the GOP die completely, just because the dems wouldn't have any kind of check on them to keep them in line, but...if the GOP is feeling suicidal, then who am I to stop them from stepping in front of that bus?
 
2013-06-28 07:59:36 AM
We can only hope subby
 
2013-06-28 08:03:27 AM

Alphax: JunkyJu: Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.

This 'breaking the law' talking point is retarded.


How so? They broke the law when they came to the country illegally.
Giving them amnesty is rewarding that behavior.
What's the incentive for others to not break the law in the same way?

Seems fairly logical and reasonable to me.
 
2013-06-28 08:24:27 AM

ChaosStar: Alphax: JunkyJu: Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.

This 'breaking the law' talking point is retarded.

How so? They broke the law when they came to the country illegally.
Giving them amnesty is rewarding that behavior.
What's the incentive for others to not break the law in the same way?

Seems fairly logical and reasonable to me.


It's like holding grudges against jaywalkers. They didn't commit felonies, or misdemeanors.
 
2013-06-28 08:33:47 AM

Evil High Priest: Biological Ali: seventypercent: Biological Ali: It has to pass though, right? I mean, doesn't it need only a simple majority in the House? Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

It could pass the House with the vast majority Democrats and a relatively small number of Republicans voting for it. And it probably would pass right now.

But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.

He can just unilaterally keep a bill from coming up for a vote even if a majority would vote for it? That would be pretty silly.

Yes, that's pretty much his job as Speaker. If he says no vote, no vote.


I suppose it's step up from passing around tobacco bribe money on the House floor.
 
2013-06-28 08:52:29 AM

uselessgit: Bullshiat Alphax.  If the mass of illegals were all potential republicans, this bill wouldn't have been written.  Deny all you like, I'm used to liberals never saying what they really think.  You want a one party system.  As a liberal, anything it takes to make sure there is no opposition.  If anyone disagrees with you or other liberals, it automatically means they are wrong, stupid and should be marginalized?  What possible democrat party benefit can happen with an endless supply of democrat voters... that can't POSSIBLY be a factor. I'm sure. Not at all, out of the pure love and goodness in their saintly hearts, dems want to extend a hand to all those poor down-trodden.No other motive at all?Meanwhile evil businesses are looking to exploit cheap labor for their evil greedy greed greed money vaults? (which they are).I can admit there is an unspoken reason they want all the cheap labor, I can't understand why you don't think dems have a similar bent.


In the immortal words of Louis Black, "you tell me how we're going to catch 11 million people. Are you out of your farking mind?!"
 
2013-06-28 09:09:31 AM

Alphax: fartacus: WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.

Yep, it's unfortunate that compromising principles and buying votes with handouts don't come as naturally to Republicans as they do to Democrats.

Do Republicans have any principles that aren't evil?


There's nothing evil about Republican principles, unless you think freedom, individual liberty, and civil rights are evil. Of course the Democrat spin machine is powerful and Democrat voters tend to be gullible, so it's understandable that you could view good principles as evil.
 
2013-06-28 09:14:53 AM

fartacus: Alphax: fartacus: WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.

Yep, it's unfortunate that compromising principles and buying votes with handouts don't come as naturally to Republicans as they do to Democrats.

Do Republicans have any principles that aren't evil?

There's nothing evil about Republican principles, unless you think freedom, individual liberty, and civil rights are evil. Of course the Democrat spin machine is powerful and Democrat voters tend to be gullible, so it's understandable that you could view good principles as evil.


Of course, lying for their cause is another Republican principle.  Freedom, individual liberty, civil rights.. three things they're working hard to destroy in the last few years.
 
2013-06-28 09:20:02 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: JunkyJu: Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.

This 'breaking the law' talking point is retarded.

How so? They broke the law when they came to the country illegally.
Giving them amnesty is rewarding that behavior.
What's the incentive for others to not break the law in the same way?

Seems fairly logical and reasonable to me.

It's like holding grudges against jaywalkers. They didn't commit felonies, or misdemeanors.


You're comparing someone entering a country illegally to someone illegally crossing a street at a place other than a crosswalk?
You feel that is a fair and equal comparison?
 
2013-06-28 09:20:47 AM

Thunderpipes: Infernalist: meyerkev: jjorsett: FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


I love how "The" Latinos are supposed to be this monolith that votes en bloc and who have only one issue. Do you assume Jews all vote alike? How about women?

To be totally fair, "the blacks" are incredibly monolithic (93% for Obama, where Latinos were 71%), and they're the only other large minority that hasn't managed to successfully integrate.  And since something like a fifth of the Latinos in the country are illegal and a bunch of the others are family/friends/etc of that fifth, I could see WHY latinos would be assumed to be monolithic on this issue.

/Asians don't count, since they're functionally culturally and economically white with different food at this point.

It's not monolithic so much as "We have zero reason to vote for the other guy who openly loathes us."

Al boils down to free stuff, period. Democrats promise free stuff in exchange for votes. Need more taxes to pay for that stuff, punish hard working Americans. Won't end, and country will collapse financially within the next couple decades. Simple math.

Immigration reform as it stands will cost us trillions of taxpayer dollars. Will further increase minority populations until they are the majority, somewhere around 2040. Then who will they blame when they control everything, nobody works, and crime is rampant?


I'm kind off actually enjoying the downfall at this point. I wait for the economics threads where all the same farkers practically brag at how poor they are.
 
2013-06-28 09:23:12 AM

ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: JunkyJu: Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.

This 'breaking the law' talking point is retarded.

How so? They broke the law when they came to the country illegally.
Giving them amnesty is rewarding that behavior.
What's the incentive for others to not break the law in the same way?

Seems fairly logical and reasonable to me.

It's like holding grudges against jaywalkers. They didn't commit felonies, or misdemeanors.

You're comparing someone entering a country illegally to someone illegally crossing a street at a place other than a crosswalk?
You feel that is a fair and equal comparison?


Yes.  Why not?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-06-28 09:25:37 AM

fartacus: Alphax: fartacus: WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.

Yep, it's unfortunate that compromising principles and buying votes with handouts don't come as naturally to Republicans as they do to Democrats.

Do Republicans have any principles that aren't evil?

There's nothing evil about Republican principles, unless you think freedom, individual liberty, and civil rights are evil. Of course the Democrat spin machine is powerful and Democrat voters tend to be gullible, so it's understandable that you could view good principles as evil.


whatistheexcel.com

Freedom, liberty, and civil rights... for white straight males.  That's the GOP way!
 
2013-06-28 09:26:29 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: JunkyJu: Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.

This 'breaking the law' talking point is retarded.

How so? They broke the law when they came to the country illegally.
Giving them amnesty is rewarding that behavior.
What's the incentive for others to not break the law in the same way?

Seems fairly logical and reasonable to me.

It's like holding grudges against jaywalkers. They didn't commit felonies, or misdemeanors.

You're comparing someone entering a country illegally to someone illegally crossing a street at a place other than a crosswalk?
You feel that is a fair and equal comparison?

Yes.  Why not?


I'd call both 'victimless crimes', but on the other hand, the illegal immigrants are often exploited when they get here.  Underpaid, poorly treated, with the threat of deportation if they try to stick up for themselves.
 
2013-06-28 09:32:00 AM

Alphax: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: JunkyJu: Condemn someone for telling the truth, but give a free pass to others for breaking the law.

Makes perfect sense.

This 'breaking the law' talking point is retarded.

How so? They broke the law when they came to the country illegally.
Giving them amnesty is rewarding that behavior.
What's the incentive for others to not break the law in the same way?

Seems fairly logical and reasonable to me.

It's like holding grudges against jaywalkers. They didn't commit felonies, or misdemeanors.

You're comparing someone entering a country illegally to someone illegally crossing a street at a place other than a crosswalk?
You feel that is a fair and equal comparison?

Yes.  Why not?

I'd call both 'victimless crimes', but on the other hand, the illegal immigrants are often exploited when they get here.  Underpaid, poorly treated, with the threat of deportation if they try to stick up for themselves.


What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?
The opportunity, as you pointed out, to exploit them wouldn't exist if they didn't have the illegal activity to be held over their head could it?
Do you get these sort of issues with a jay walker? If not, how can you consider them equal crimes for comparison purposes?
 
2013-06-28 09:33:52 AM

ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?


Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.
 
2013-06-28 09:39:44 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?

Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.


How do you figure?
They pay no income tax, because how can they if they don't have a SSN?
You could argue they pay sales tax when they purchase things, but I could counter with them receiving benefits like healthcare, roads, emergency services, etc to offset that payment
What other taxes would they pay where they get nothing back?
 
2013-06-28 09:42:20 AM

ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?

Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.

How do you figure?
They pay no income tax, because how can they if they don't have a SSN?
You could argue they pay sales tax when they purchase things, but I could counter with them receiving benefits like healthcare, roads, emergency services, etc to offset that payment
What other taxes would they pay where they get nothing back?


Yeah, they do pay withholding on their wages.  And while I usually get some back each April, I don't think they can file for that.
 
2013-06-28 09:42:22 AM

tennyson: FlashHarry: Are there any procedural tricks in the House like the filibuster to prevent something like this from happening?

Yes, there are. The Speaker can just outright refuse to consider it.

There are procedures under which a majority of the House can demand that it be considered without the Speaker's help (a "discharge petition") but it is almost never used since 1993, when they changed the rules so that you had to sign the petition publicly.

Which means that the Speaker can take retribution on you. It's been used a grand total of once since then (for McCain-Feingold). Even when there's a majority for the bill, many on the Speaker's side will be too afraid to use it.


If Boehner has a brain in his head he'll huff and puff and put on a show while secretly encouraging a discharge petition amongst his moderates. It will hurt him, but not as badly as allowing it to come to vote. An immigration bill with some spector of bipartisan support is his only dream of future Latino inroads.

/No, I don't really think he has either.
 
2013-06-28 09:43:59 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?

Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.

How do you figure?
They pay no income tax, because how can they if they don't have a SSN?
You could argue they pay sales tax when they purchase things, but I could counter with them receiving benefits like healthcare, roads, emergency services, etc to offset that payment
What other taxes would they pay where they get nothing back?

Yeah, they do pay withholding on their wages.  And while I usually get some back each April, I don't think they can file for that.


Can you provide some sort of documentation to back that up? Again, I can't see how they are paying withholding if they don't have a SSN.
 
2013-06-28 09:46:15 AM
Really? All the politicians who stand to gain 11 million free votes every year voted in favor of the bill? And only some of the ones who did not?
 
2013-06-28 09:46:28 AM

ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?

Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.

How do you figure?
They pay no income tax, because how can they if they don't have a SSN?
You could argue they pay sales tax when they purchase things, but I could counter with them receiving benefits like healthcare, roads, emergency services, etc to offset that payment
What other taxes would they pay where they get nothing back?

Yeah, they do pay withholding on their wages.  And while I usually get some back each April, I don't think they can file for that.

Can you provide some sort of documentation to back that up? Again, I can't see how they are paying withholding if they don't have a SSN.


My knowledge isn't firsthand, but I assumed that they have SOMEONE'S Social Security number.  Probably someone no longer with us.
 
2013-06-28 09:48:57 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?

Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.


What are you talking about? They get paid in cash, the government never sees one dime of what they make.
When I managed resturants, I filled their pay envolopes myself.
$700 a week cash for a line cook, every week of his life.
 
2013-06-28 09:49:10 AM

Dwindle: Really? All the politicians who stand to gain 11 million free votes every year voted in favor of the bill? And only some of the ones who did not?


Perhaps you can translate that from Derp to English?
 
2013-06-28 09:49:24 AM

ChaosStar: Can you provide some sort of documentation to back that up? Again, I can't see how they are paying withholding if they don't have a SSN.


many use fake SSNs, meaning they have tax withheld but they can't get a refund.

now, those working on a purely cash basis won't pay tax, obviously. but those hired by companies who require you to fill out a W2 will.
 
2013-06-28 09:50:36 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?

Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.

How do you figure?
They pay no income tax, because how can they if they don't have a SSN?
You could argue they pay sales tax when they purchase things, but I could counter with them receiving benefits like healthcare, roads, emergency services, etc to offset that payment
What other taxes would they pay where they get nothing back?

Yeah, they do pay withholding on their wages.  And while I usually get some back each April, I don't think they can file for that.

Can you provide some sort of documentation to back that up? Again, I can't see how they are paying withholding if they don't have a SSN.

My knowledge isn't firsthand, but I assumed that they have SOMEONE'S Social Security number.  Probably someone no longer with us.


Sorry, I was just wondering if you had seen a study or something done about how their wages are done. It would be an interesting read.
That would be another crime though right? With a victim that could or could not be deceased?
Again I ask, do you get this issue with jaywalking and if not do you still feel that it's a fair comparison?
 
2013-06-28 09:50:39 AM
Are the current Immigration laws that "draconian".  More people become citizens of the US than any other country in the world on an annual basis. So what am I am missing here? This new Senate bill reinforces the fact that the eVerification system and border security (the wall)? Those measures have already been passed - just not enforced with current law. Again - what am I missing? Ilegals will now raise their hands and pay a fine? Really? What am I missing here?  I see a Pork filled bill trumped up with feigned altruism. We gotta pass it to find out what's in it - right?
 
2013-06-28 09:51:40 AM

Dwindle: What are you talking about? They get paid in cash, the government never sees one dime of what they make.
When I managed resturants, I filled their pay envolopes myself.
$700 a week cash for a line cook, every week of his life.


anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
 
2013-06-28 09:54:28 AM

ChaosStar: Can you provide some sort of documentation to back that up? Again, I can't see how they are paying withholding if they don't have a SSN.


Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment.
 
2013-06-28 09:57:44 AM

ChaosStar: That would be another crime though right? With a victim that could or could not be deceased?
Again I ask, do you get this issue with jaywalking and if not do you still feel that it's a fair comparison?


Yeah, I do.  They're people; perhaps their situation back home was unbearable, and they came out of desperation.  And because of the current crappy system, they may be badly exploited when they get here.  I'm not going to rage at them over it.
 
2013-06-28 09:58:11 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: Can you provide some sort of documentation to back that up? Again, I can't see how they are paying withholding if they don't have a SSN.

Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment.


Ok, but that's identity theft. That just goes to the point that illegally coming into the country isn't a victimless crime, if 75% of those coming in are committing it.
 
2013-06-28 09:58:57 AM
In 2009, the last year for which figures are available, employers reported wages of $72.8 billion for 7.7 million workers who could not be matched to legal Social Security numbers.

"illegal" immigrants also pay tax in the form of property taxes and sales taxes. like it or not, they contribute massively to the economy.
 
2013-06-28 10:00:15 AM

ChaosStar: Ok, but that's identity theft. That just goes to the point that illegally coming into the country isn't a victimless crime, if 75% of those coming in are committing it.


that may be, but i was refuting your claim that they don't pay income taxes.
 
2013-06-28 10:01:48 AM

ChaosStar: Ok, but that's identity theft. That just goes to the point that illegally coming into the country isn't a victimless crime, if 75% of those coming in are committing it.


see my link above concerning the $72.8 billion that couldn't be matched to legal SSNs. that's not identity theft; that's likely the use of SSNs of dead people. otherwise it would match a live person.
 
2013-06-28 10:02:23 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: That would be another crime though right? With a victim that could or could not be deceased?
Again I ask, do you get this issue with jaywalking and if not do you still feel that it's a fair comparison?

Yeah, I do.  They're people; perhaps their situation back home was unbearable, and they came out of desperation.  And because of the current crappy system, they may be badly exploited when they get here.  I'm not going to rage at them over it.


So you're pretty much just sticking to your position, not because of logic or reason, but because you're being stubborn and refusing to accept the contrary evidence presenting?
You're right, they're people, but so are the others trying to get in by going through the actual immigration system, possibly for the same reasons.
Having compassion for them is admirable, dismissing a legitimate cause for concern, i.e. the "breaking the law" point, is foolish.
 
2013-06-28 10:04:08 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: Ok, but that's identity theft. That just goes to the point that illegally coming into the country isn't a victimless crime, if 75% of those coming in are committing it.

that may be, but i was refuting your claim that they don't pay income taxes.


They're not paying income taxes, John Doe is paying income taxes as they are using his identity.

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: Ok, but that's identity theft. That just goes to the point that illegally coming into the country isn't a victimless crime, if 75% of those coming in are committing it.

see my link above concerning the $72.8 billion that couldn't be matched to legal SSNs. that's not identity theft; that's likely the use of SSNs of dead people. otherwise it would match a live person.


Using the identity of the deceased is still identity theft.
 
2013-06-28 10:04:38 AM

ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: That would be another crime though right? With a victim that could or could not be deceased?
Again I ask, do you get this issue with jaywalking and if not do you still feel that it's a fair comparison?

Yeah, I do.  They're people; perhaps their situation back home was unbearable, and they came out of desperation.  And because of the current crappy system, they may be badly exploited when they get here.  I'm not going to rage at them over it.

So you're pretty much just sticking to your position, not because of logic or reason, but because you're being stubborn and refusing to accept the contrary evidence presenting?
You're right, they're people, but so are the others trying to get in by going through the actual immigration system, possibly for the same reasons.
Having compassion for them is admirable, dismissing a legitimate cause for concern, i.e. the "breaking the law" point, is foolish.


Fixing the laws so they don't have to break them.. is that part bad to you?
 
2013-06-28 10:09:29 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: That would be another crime though right? With a victim that could or could not be deceased?
Again I ask, do you get this issue with jaywalking and if not do you still feel that it's a fair comparison?

Yeah, I do.  They're people; perhaps their situation back home was unbearable, and they came out of desperation.  And because of the current crappy system, they may be badly exploited when they get here.  I'm not going to rage at them over it.

So you're pretty much just sticking to your position, not because of logic or reason, but because you're being stubborn and refusing to accept the contrary evidence presenting?
You're right, they're people, but so are the others trying to get in by going through the actual immigration system, possibly for the same reasons.
Having compassion for them is admirable, dismissing a legitimate cause for concern, i.e. the "breaking the law" point, is foolish.

Fixing the laws so they don't have to break them.. is that part bad to you?


In this context? Yes.
That's essentially saying that we're going to eliminate identity theft laws so that people stop getting arrested for identity theft.
Fixing the laws without allowing the ones who have already broken the law to have repercussions for their actions doesn't help.
 
2013-06-28 10:10:05 AM

ChaosStar: They're not paying income taxes, John Doe is paying income taxes as they are using his identity.


uh... john doe isn't getting the paycheck. you do know how taxes are paid, don't you - they're withheld.
 
2013-06-28 10:12:11 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: They're not paying income taxes, John Doe is paying income taxes as they are using his identity.

uh... john doe isn't getting the paycheck. you do know how taxes are paid, don't you - they're withheld.


As they are using John Doe's identity, John Doe is paying the taxes, or having them withheld if you prefer.
Yes, they're doing the work, but the identity is paying the taxes.
If they were paying the taxes, they could apply for a refund, no?
 
2013-06-28 10:14:29 AM

ChaosStar: As they are using John Doe's identity, John Doe is paying the taxes, or having them withheld if you prefer.


you're joking, right?

if pedro is using john doe's SSN, pedro receives a paycheck LESS TAXES WITHHELD.  ergo PEDRO IS PAYING TAXES.
 
2013-06-28 10:14:57 AM

FlashHarry: you just know the house republicans will kill it. it's in their nature.

and they'll lose the latino vote for another generation.


Yes, because giving the Latinos amnesty in the 80's resulted in more Latinos voting for Republicans.

Fail.
 
2013-06-28 10:15:48 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: As they are using John Doe's identity, John Doe is paying the taxes, or having them withheld if you prefer.

you're joking, right?

if pedro is using john doe's SSN, pedro receives a paycheck LESS TAXES WITHHELD.  ergo PEDRO IS PAYING TAXES.


No, pedro is doing the work, John Doe is paying the taxes.
If Pedro was paying the taxes, the taxes would be in Pedro's name.
Using caps doesn't make your argument any more valid.
 
2013-06-28 10:16:18 AM

Nutsac_Jim: Yes, because giving the Latinos amnesty in the 80's resulted in more Latinos voting for Republicans.

Fail.


so you're saying that they'll vote democratic no matter what republicans do? even though they tend to be religious and socially conservative?
 
2013-06-28 10:17:51 AM

ChaosStar: No, pedro is doing the work, John Doe is paying the taxes.
If Pedro was paying the taxes, the taxes would be in Pedro's name.
Using caps doesn't make your argument any more valid.


wait - are you serious?  you cannot be serious.

think about this for a second.

who is getting the paycheck every two weeks? pedro or john doe?

whose paycheck is having taxes withheld? pedro or john doe?

now, who is actually paying taxes? pedro or john doe?
 
2013-06-28 10:19:50 AM
go ahead, i'll wait.
 
2013-06-28 10:20:14 AM

ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: That would be another crime though right? With a victim that could or could not be deceased?
Again I ask, do you get this issue with jaywalking and if not do you still feel that it's a fair comparison?

Yeah, I do.  They're people; perhaps their situation back home was unbearable, and they came out of desperation.  And because of the current crappy system, they may be badly exploited when they get here.  I'm not going to rage at them over it.

So you're pretty much just sticking to your position, not because of logic or reason, but because you're being stubborn and refusing to accept the contrary evidence presenting?
You're right, they're people, but so are the others trying to get in by going through the actual immigration system, possibly for the same reasons.
Having compassion for them is admirable, dismissing a legitimate cause for concern, i.e. the "breaking the law" point, is foolish.

Fixing the laws so they don't have to break them.. is that part bad to you?

In this context? Yes.
That's essentially saying that we're going to eliminate identity theft laws so that people stop getting arrested for identity theft.
Fixing the laws without allowing the ones who have already broken the law to have repercussions for their actions doesn't help.


I think we're done here.  Punishment is ill considered, and not aimed at the people responsible for our crappy immigration laws.
 
2013-06-28 10:20:17 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: No, pedro is doing the work, John Doe is paying the taxes.
If Pedro was paying the taxes, the taxes would be in Pedro's name.
Using caps doesn't make your argument any more valid.

wait - are you serious?  you cannot be serious.

think about this for a second.

who is getting the paycheck every two weeks? pedro or john doe?

whose paycheck is having taxes withheld? pedro or john doe?

now, who is actually paying taxes? pedro or john doe?


I'm very serious.
Who is getting the paycheck? Pedro
Whose paycheck is having taxes withheld? John Doe
Who is actually paying taxes? John Doe
 
2013-06-28 10:22:02 AM

theorellior: seventypercent: But in order for that to happen, Boehner would have to let it come up for a vote, and he's indicated that he won't do that.

Boehner: bad Speaker of the House or Worst Speaker of the House?


I'm looking for your similar comments about Harry Reid not bringing bills up for a vote in the Senate.
I can't seem to find any.  Perhaps you can help me locate one.
 
2013-06-28 10:22:33 AM

ChaosStar: I'm very serious.
Who is getting the paycheck? Pedro
Whose paycheck is having taxes withheld? John Doe
Who is actually paying taxes? John Doe


you... you are trolling me, right? you cannot be this dumb.
 
2013-06-28 10:23:17 AM

Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: Alphax: ChaosStar: That would be another crime though right? With a victim that could or could not be deceased?
Again I ask, do you get this issue with jaywalking and if not do you still feel that it's a fair comparison?

Yeah, I do.  They're people; perhaps their situation back home was unbearable, and they came out of desperation.  And because of the current crappy system, they may be badly exploited when they get here.  I'm not going to rage at them over it.

So you're pretty much just sticking to your position, not because of logic or reason, but because you're being stubborn and refusing to accept the contrary evidence presenting?
You're right, they're people, but so are the others trying to get in by going through the actual immigration system, possibly for the same reasons.
Having compassion for them is admirable, dismissing a legitimate cause for concern, i.e. the "breaking the law" point, is foolish.

Fixing the laws so they don't have to break them.. is that part bad to you?

In this context? Yes.
That's essentially saying that we're going to eliminate identity theft laws so that people stop getting arrested for identity theft.
Fixing the laws without allowing the ones who have already broken the law to have repercussions for their actions doesn't help.

I think we're done here.  Punishment is ill considered, and not aimed at the people responsible for our crappy immigration laws.


I see, so based on your opinion that our laws are crappy, they should be freely ignored?
Interesting.
 
2013-06-28 10:24:13 AM

ChaosStar: I'm very serious.
Who is getting the paycheck? Pedro
Whose paycheck is having taxes withheld? John Doe
Who is actually paying taxes? John Doe


i'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

if it's pedro's paycheck - i.e. he's done the two week's work - and his paycheck is lower because he has taxes taken out... how the fark is john doe paying taxes?
 
2013-06-28 10:25:53 AM
again, i'll wait.
 
2013-06-28 10:26:04 AM

d23: fartacus: Alphax: fartacus: WTF Indeed: It's a good thing Republicans learned their lesson from 2012 and are growing their base by supporting women's rights, gay rights and Hispanic and black outreach.

Yep, it's unfortunate that compromising principles and buying votes with handouts don't come as naturally to Republicans as they do to Democrats.

Do Republicans have any principles that aren't evil?

There's nothing evil about Republican principles, unless you think freedom, individual liberty, and civil rights are evil. Of course the Democrat spin machine is powerful and Democrat voters tend to be gullible, so it's understandable that you could view good principles as evil.

[whatistheexcel.com image 624x354]

Freedom, liberty, and civil rights... for white straight males.  That's the GOP way!


It was the Democrats who drove the civil rights movement and the abolition of slavery, right? Liberals love to project a hateful image on conservatives and libertarians, and for the most part it works. That's the Democrat spin machine I was talking about. And you also demonstrated the simple mindedness and gullability I was talking about. Slogans work so well on simple minds like yours.

I'm a conservative who is pro gay rights, women's rights, and even pro-choice. The supreme court's recent decision about DOMA was exactly right, and very consistent with conservative principles - it should be up to the states (heck, if a state wants to outlaw marriage between a man and a woman but make gay marriage legal, go for it!). It's also where the SCOTUS got it wrong on Roe v. Wade - it failed to acknowledge that the unborn are individuals during some stage of development, and there may be gray area that states and localities can negotiate better (according to local values) than the federal government.
 
2013-06-28 10:27:45 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: I'm very serious.
Who is getting the paycheck? Pedro
Whose paycheck is having taxes withheld? John Doe
Who is actually paying taxes? John Doe

i'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

if it's pedro's paycheck - i.e. he's done the two week's work - and his paycheck is lower because he has taxes taken out... how the fark is john doe paying taxes?


Who's name is on the W4? Pedro or John Doe?
The W2? Pedro or John Doe?
If the IRS were to audit, who would they audit? Pedro or John Doe?

I'm not denying that the check Pedro is getting is smaller, I'm saying he is not paying the taxes.
 
2013-06-28 10:32:45 AM

ChaosStar: Who's name is on the W4? Pedro or John Doe?
The W2? Pedro or John Doe?
If the IRS were to audit, who would they audit? Pedro or John Doe?

I'm not denying that the check Pedro is getting is smaller, I'm saying he is not paying the taxes.


• john doe is not doing any work.

• john doe is not receiving a paycheck.

• john doe is not paying any money to the government.

• pedro's money is going to the government, not john doe's.

therefore pedro is paying taxes, not john doe.

if your argument is that it is in fact john doe who is paying taxes simply because his SSN is attached to the actual money pedro is sending to the government, then you're just being disingenuous.
 
2013-06-28 10:33:59 AM

ChaosStar: Who's name is on the W4? Pedro or John Doe?
The W2? Pedro or John Doe?


btw, it's likely pedro's name is on those documents but that he's using john doe's SSN (who is likely dead - as this is the most common form of SSN fraud).
 
2013-06-28 10:34:58 AM

ChaosStar: I'm not denying that the check Pedro is getting is smaller, I'm saying he is not paying the taxes


answer this: whose money is going to the government?
 
2013-06-28 10:36:12 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: Who's name is on the W4? Pedro or John Doe?
The W2? Pedro or John Doe?
If the IRS were to audit, who would they audit? Pedro or John Doe?

I'm not denying that the check Pedro is getting is smaller, I'm saying he is not paying the taxes.

• john doe is not doing any work.

• john doe is not receiving a paycheck.

• john doe is not paying any money to the government.

• pedro's money is going to the government, not john doe's.

therefore pedro is paying taxes, not john doe.

if your argument is that it is in fact john doe who is paying taxes simply because his SSN is attached to the actual money pedro is sending to the government, then you're just being disingenuous.


I answer your questions, yet you don't answer mine.
You can try to spin it any way you like, John Doe is the one paying the taxes.
Pedro is getting less money.
John Doe's name is on the paycheck.
John Doe gets the W2.
John Doe gets the refund if filed.
John Doe gets the audit if the IRS so chooses.
John Doe is paying the taxes.
 
2013-06-28 10:36:32 AM

fartacus: It was the Democrats who drove the civil rights movement and the abolition of slavery, right?


so you're saying that the GOP of 2013 is exactly like the GOP of 1965... or 1865?
 
2013-06-28 10:37:16 AM

ChaosStar: I answer your questions, yet you don't answer mine.
You can try to spin it any way you like, John Doe is the one paying the taxes.
Pedro is getting less money.
John Doe's name is on the paycheck.
John Doe gets the W2.
John Doe gets the refund if filed.
John Doe gets the audit if the IRS so chooses.
John Doe is paying the taxes.


you are lying.

pedro's money is going to the government. pedro is therefore paying taxes.
 
2013-06-28 10:41:56 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: I answer your questions, yet you don't answer mine.
You can try to spin it any way you like, John Doe is the one paying the taxes.
Pedro is getting less money.
John Doe's name is on the paycheck.
John Doe gets the W2.
John Doe gets the refund if filed.
John Doe gets the audit if the IRS so chooses.
John Doe is paying the taxes.

you are lying.

pedro's money is going to the government. pedro is therefore paying taxes.


We'll just have to agree to disagree then.
Have the last word if you would like.
 
2013-06-28 10:44:32 AM

ChaosStar: We'll just have to agree to disagree then.
Have the last word if you would like.


just answer one question: whose money is going to the government, pedro's or john doe's?
 
2013-06-28 10:48:33 AM

Corvus: So you support a method which will put overpopulation into overdrive then?  Uncontrolled influx of people into this country will have massive problems.

A) All predictions show the US is going to have a worker shortage in the future and the US population will dwindle without immigration

B) No one wants an uncontrolled influx of people your argument is a strawman.


You sure about B ?  I've seen plenty of liberals that think it should be an open border.
 
2013-06-28 10:52:51 AM

Corvus: RobertBruce: vernonFL: RobertBruce: It's  a jobs bill --- just not for Americans.

They're going to hire 20,000 more border patrol guards.

And that's great. But it's still vs 11-12 million illegals here.

You mean the one's who already live here and mostly already have jobs?


Good luck with that unemployment rate when a bunch of now legal workers compete for jobs.
Since Obamacare and all other benifits will not apply (at least at first), then
companies can choose between worker A, a citizen, and have to pay for all those benefits, or worker B, a working resident, without the nasty 20% tax

I wonder which worker companies will choose?
 
2013-06-28 10:54:37 AM

Alphax: It's like holding grudges against jaywalkers. They didn't commit felonies, or misdemeanors.


No it's more like trespassing, and them giving them a license to trespass whenever they feel like it.
 
2013-06-28 11:06:50 AM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: I'm very serious.
Who is getting the paycheck? Pedro
Whose paycheck is having taxes withheld? John Doe
Who is actually paying taxes? John Doe

you... you are trolling me, right? you cannot be this dumb.


Yea, you better get that hook out.
 
2013-06-28 11:32:23 AM

Smackledorfer: Yea, you better get that hook out.


he was good, though, wasn't he?
 
2013-06-28 11:49:11 AM

FlashHarry: Smackledorfer: Yea, you better get that hook out.

he was good, though, wasn't he?


I already had him marked went he went full retard in a thread on gay marriage, so I can't objectively say.  Whatever you need to tell yourself :P
 
2013-06-28 11:51:35 AM
Is there a Tea Party rhetoric bingo game out there? This seems like the perfect thread for it.
 
2013-06-28 11:52:40 AM

DrewCurtisJr: El Morro: Sure, a few are sh*tbags, but they usually wind up getting themselves deported by doing stupid crap and getting arrested for it (which triggers an "ICE hold" and deportation) and don't last too long here.

Because our border is so secure once you get deported there's no way to get back.


Maybe you're confused.
- An immigrant jumps the border (note: we certainly have to increase border security- no objection there).
- Immigrant doesn't choose to behave like a constructive member of society, breaks a few laws, gets arrested.
- Police contact DHS/ICE, find out he has no status.
- Immigrant gets put into removal proceedings, winds up getting an order of removal/deportation
- Immigrant jumps back over the border into the States, after being removed to his native country.

So now we're talking about someone who violated his removal order by returning to the United States.  Because of this, if he ever gets caught again, he/she CANNOT contest an immediate removal from the country (unless he reopens his original case, which is very difficult and only available under particular circumstances), and may be subjected to jail time and a fine before his removal.

But what if he doesn't get caught again?  Well, if he's "lucky" enough to avoid getting arrested again, he can look forward to a lifetime of working crap jobs, constant fear of the police and ICE raids, the inability to get a drivers license or work authorization, no retirement nest egg outside of saving whatever is left over from his living expenses, and criminals knowing he's an easy target.

Boy, that sure is the life!
 
2013-06-28 12:05:56 PM

El Morro: Maybe you're confused.


I'm confused? You just wrote a whole post that confirmed my comment.

But what if he doesn't get caught again?  Well, if he's "lucky" enough to avoid getting arrested again, he can look forward to a lifetime of working crap jobs, constant fear of the police and ICE raids, the inability to get a drivers license or work authorization, no retirement nest egg outside of saving whatever is left over from his living expenses, and criminals knowing he's an easy target.

Criminals are really concerned about those things.
 
2013-06-28 12:59:53 PM

Bahleted: I'm pretty sure the point is that Mexico has more restrictions for non Mexican born citizens when it comes to property rights, healthcare, etc. Not that they don't let people in.


Ah so no one cares about?

So no one minds if we let as many Mexicans into the US  possible?
 
2013-06-28 01:40:23 PM
If we can find Saddam in a gotdamned hidey-hole in the desert, I'm pretty sure we could round up 11mil illegals who aren't really hiding - if we really wanted to, that is. Plus, Job Creation™. win-win.

It's possible because we are Ameri-CANs!
 
2013-06-28 01:40:43 PM

Corvus: Bahleted: I'm pretty sure the point is that Mexico has more restrictions for non Mexican born citizens when it comes to property rights, healthcare, etc. Not that they don't let people in.

Ah so no one cares about?

So no one minds if we let as many Mexicans into the US  possible?


Rephrase that? I feel like you might be missing some key words that would make your questions complete.

OR

maybe you're drunk
 
2013-06-28 02:03:26 PM

Dwindle: Alphax: ChaosStar: What about the tax payer money spent on the people who are not citizens of the country? The crime they bring? The resources they consume? You could consider the tax payers of the country victims couldn't you?

Other way around, actually.  They pay taxes with little hope of getting anything back for it.  They're working hard, with little to show for it.

What are you talking about? They get paid in cash, the government never sees one dime of what they make.
When I managed resturants, I filled their pay envolopes myself.
$700 a week cash for a line cook, every week of his life.


Why aren't YOU the one in jail, dickhead?
 
2013-06-28 02:38:25 PM

DrewCurtisJr: El Morro: Maybe you're confused.

I'm confused? You just wrote a whole post that confirmed my comment.

But what if he doesn't get caught again?  Well, if he's "lucky" enough to avoid getting arrested again, he can look forward to a lifetime of working crap jobs, constant fear of the police and ICE raids, the inability to get a drivers license or work authorization, no retirement nest egg outside of saving whatever is left over from his living expenses, and criminals knowing he's an easy target.

Criminals are really concerned about those things.


If by "criminals", you mean those who prey on the immigrant community, then yes.  They do care about those things, because immigrants who no longer need to fear the police because of their status are more willing to cooperate with police and the prosecution (there's the U-visa option, but not many immigrants know about that).

If by "criminals", you mean the immigrants who came over without authorization, you're entitled to that opinion.  But there is a massive number of immigrants who were brought here as children who are in the same boat as those who made an active decision to come over.  If you're cold hearted enough to want the same punishment for them as anyone else?  Well, there's no point in furthering the discussion.  We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
2013-06-28 02:43:52 PM

FlashHarry: ChaosStar: We'll just have to agree to disagree then.
Have the last word if you would like.

just answer one question: whose money is going to the government, pedro's or john doe's?


If Pedro has a TIN number and files his taxes, the government is getting money.  The government would also be getting money via sales taxes, etc.
If Pedro doesn't have a TIN and doesn't file for taxes, then the only money going to the government is through sales taxes, etc.

Either way, Pedro doesn't get to enjoy the benefits of Social Security when he reaches retirement age.  John Doe does.
 
2013-06-28 02:55:34 PM
Wouldn't it make sense instead of just rounding them up and deporting millions of illegals to just give them a reasonable up front fine then a following heftier fine they work to pay off?

If they can't or are unwilling to pay deport them.

Use the money from the upfront fines to the construction of a stronger boarder.

Then use the next fine monthly payments, whatever the amount might be for border patrol salaries.

We have millions that helped contribute to the problem why not utilize them to help solve it?

Go after the business who helped harbor them as well for that matter.

While I don't agree with kicking off your stay in a country by breaking their laws it's kind of crazy just to kick them all out without any regard as to how we could benefit from them.

Also, we could even contract the construction to a private company.

I think it sounds pretty solid at least for the time being but of course something like that would never happen. It's not like anyone in power to do that is reading any of this.
 
2013-06-28 03:17:50 PM

El Morro: If by "criminals", you mean those who prey on the immigrant community, then yes. They do care about those things, because immigrants who no longer need to fear the police because of their status are more willing to cooperate with police and the prosecution (there's the U-visa option, but not many immigrants know about that).


You wrote yourself "Sure, a few are sh*tbags, but they usually wind up getting themselves deported by doing stupid crap and getting arrested for it".

Claiming they don't last too long because they get deported is not accurate. They can keep coming in over and over again.

 Deported illegal immigrants return repeatedly
 
2013-06-28 03:25:26 PM

El Morro: If Pedro has a TIN number and files his taxes, the government is getting money.  The government would also be getting money via sales taxes, etc.
If Pedro doesn't have a TIN and doesn't file for taxes, then the only money going to the government is through sales taxes, etc.

Either way, Pedro doesn't get to enjoy the benefits of Social Security when he reaches retirement age.  John Doe does.


regardless of whether pedro files or not, he's still having taxes taken out of his wages - ergo he pays taxes.

but, yes, he won't reap the benefits.
 
2013-06-28 06:10:36 PM

DrewCurtisJr: El Morro: If by "criminals", you mean those who prey on the immigrant community, then yes. They do care about those things, because immigrants who no longer need to fear the police because of their status are more willing to cooperate with police and the prosecution (there's the U-visa option, but not many immigrants know about that).

You wrote yourself "Sure, a few are sh*tbags, but they usually wind up getting themselves deported by doing stupid crap and getting arrested for it".

Claiming they don't last too long because they get deported is not accurate. They can keep coming in over and over again.

 Deported illegal immigrants return repeatedly


I was completely accurate.  "They don't last too long", as in, "They do stupid shiat, get caught and deported for it".  So they jump the border, get caught, and get sent back.

The problem of them repeatedly re-entering is an issue related to border security.  I already said I supported increased border security to prevent people from entering (or re-entering) in the first place.  Increased security at the border is probably our best bet to prevent the "sh*tbags" from getting into the country and causing problems, since they wouldn't be the type of individuals who would be granted a B1/B2 visitor's visa in the first place, nor be willing to go through the expense, effort, or background checks for the process.

I honestly think your views and mine are closer to agreement than disagreement on the issue than you might believe.
 
2013-06-28 06:16:32 PM

El Morro: DrewCurtisJr: El Morro: If by "criminals", you mean those who prey on the immigrant community, then yes. They do care about those things, because immigrants who no longer need to fear the police because of their status are more willing to cooperate with police and the prosecution (there's the U-visa option, but not many immigrants know about that).

You wrote yourself "Sure, a few are sh*tbags, but they usually wind up getting themselves deported by doing stupid crap and getting arrested for it".

Claiming they don't last too long because they get deported is not accurate. They can keep coming in over and over again.

 Deported illegal immigrants return repeatedly

I was completely accurate.  "They don't last too long", as in, "They do stupid shiat, get caught and deported for it".  So they jump the border, get caught, and get sent back.

The problem of them repeatedly re-entering is an issue related to border security.  I already said I supported increased border security to prevent people from entering (or re-entering) in the first place.  Increased security at the border is probably our best bet to prevent the "sh*tbags" from getting into the country and causing problems, since they wouldn't be the type of individuals who would be granted a B1/B2 visitor's visa in the first place, nor be willing to go through the expense, effort, or background checks for the process.

I honestly think your views and mine are closer to agreement than disagreement on the issue than you might believe.


The chickenshiat politicians are letting these lawbreakers force their hand.  Deport, it can be done.  A certain country moved millions of people 70 years ago, we can sure as fark do it.  We do a better job protecting South Korea than we do our own borders.  I'd volunteer to plant landmines on our Southern border on the weekends.  Set up cameras, put it on PayPerView.
 
2013-06-28 06:35:11 PM
armoredbulldozer:


The chickenshiat politicians are letting these lawbreakers force their hand.  Deport, it can be done.  A certain country moved millions of people 70 years ago, we can sure as fark do it.  We do a better job protecting South Korea than we do our own borders.  I'd volunteer to plant landmines on our Southern border on the weekends.  Set up cameras, put it on PayPerView.

I believe this is best Godwin I have ever seen.

Ole!! Two ears and a tail to the bulldozer.
 
2013-06-28 08:20:42 PM
So, everyone who actually bothered to apply for a green card is going to be given one? Or are the people who tried to do things legally get shoved to the back of the line again.
 
2013-06-28 10:14:49 PM

ChaosStar: They're not paying income taxes, John Doe is paying income taxes as they are using his identity.


Are you really that dense?  I mean... you know what, fark it.  Yeah, you really are that dense.
 
2013-06-28 10:28:59 PM

Fano: shoved to the back of the line again.


If you actually read the article, you would know that the reform bill specifically states that those who are already here have to wait 10 years in a quasi-legal status before they can begin the process of applying for citizenship.
 
2013-06-29 01:52:26 AM

armoredbulldozer: El Morro: DrewCurtisJr: El Morro: If by "criminals", you mean those who prey on the immigrant community, then yes. They do care about those things, because immigrants who no longer need to fear the police because of their status are more willing to cooperate with police and the prosecution (there's the U-visa option, but not many immigrants know about that).

You wrote yourself "Sure, a few are sh*tbags, but they usually wind up getting themselves deported by doing stupid crap and getting arrested for it".

Claiming they don't last too long because they get deported is not accurate. They can keep coming in over and over again.

 Deported illegal immigrants return repeatedly

I was completely accurate.  "They don't last too long", as in, "They do stupid shiat, get caught and deported for it".  So they jump the border, get caught, and get sent back.

The problem of them repeatedly re-entering is an issue related to border security.  I already said I supported increased border security to prevent people from entering (or re-entering) in the first place.  Increased security at the border is probably our best bet to prevent the "sh*tbags" from getting into the country and causing problems, since they wouldn't be the type of individuals who would be granted a B1/B2 visitor's visa in the first place, nor be willing to go through the expense, effort, or background checks for the process.

I honestly think your views and mine are closer to agreement than disagreement on the issue than you might believe.

The chickenshiat politicians are letting these lawbreakers force their hand.  Deport, it can be done.  A certain country moved millions of people 70 years ago, we can sure as fark do it.  We do a better job protecting South Korea than we do our own borders.  I'd volunteer to plant landmines on our Southern border on the weekends.  Set up cameras, put it on PayPerView.


Go get f*cked, troll.
 
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