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(New York Magazine)   Tear-jerking video of dog burying dead puppy was not compassion... it was food preparation   (nymag.com) divider line 139
    More: Followup, cooking, dog burying, The Christian Post, Museum of Natural History, compassion, Daily Intelligencer, dogs  
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15569 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jun 2013 at 5:04 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-27 06:04:02 PM
Dogs bury a lot of things.

Dogs do not pray. They prey, they don't pray.
 
2013-06-27 06:04:16 PM
The Obvious tag has been dug up and eaten
 
2013-06-27 06:05:17 PM
And when your dog snuggles up to you on the couch, it's because he loves you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a heat source.
 
2013-06-27 06:05:50 PM

Super Chronic: I hadn't seen this until just now, but my response is.... duh.  Did anyone really think a dog was engaging in a spontaneous grieving ritual?

Anyway, curious to know what kind of dog that is.  Looks sorta like a Brittany, though with darker spots.


Human emotional stupidity knows now bounds.

Where's Ric Romero when you need him?

Would have been great for him to do a story on the actual tendencies of dogs to bury/hoard their food/chewtoys.
 
2013-06-27 06:06:48 PM

omeganuepsilon: Human emotional stupidity knows no bounds.


That's better.
 
2013-06-27 06:08:08 PM
One of my huskies used to bury the groundhogs she killed, but she never mauled or tore them up.  Then the charming job was to disinter them once she was back inside, to prevent her going back to revoltingly decayed corpses later.  My other one simply used to bring me whatever critters she had snagged.
 
2013-06-27 06:09:23 PM

brap: buckets_of_fun: So the morale of the story is dead puppies are delicious?

No, the morale of the story is low.
The morel of the story is an edible mushroom found in early spring.
The moral of the story is, a dog may not know why it buries a pup, but it may a cur to it later.


I'll facepalm myself in the corner.  Thanks.
 
2013-06-27 06:14:04 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And when your dog snuggles up to you on the couch, it's because he loves you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a heat source.


Studies have shown that dogs receive a "hit" of oxytocin when they come into affectionate contact with their human.  The human, by the way, also receives a hit..similar to the one a human mother gets when she breast feeds her baby.
 
2013-06-27 06:14:45 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And when your dog snuggles up to you on the couch, it's because he loves you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a heat source.


It might have something to do with that, but it might also have something to do with the fact that dogs are a subspecies of the grey wolf which is a social animal that uses physical contact to establish and maintain familial bonds.
 
2013-06-27 06:15:30 PM
Cold dog
 
2013-06-27 06:15:50 PM

kg2095: Ral: Well duh.  Dogs don't bury their dead.  That's ridiculous.

Do they eat their dead? I've never heard of dog cannibalism before.


They'll eat anything if they're hungry enough.  Or just because it'll fit in their mouth.

eraser8: One thing that often gets overlooked in these "that dog isn't doing what we think he's doing" stories is the fact that dogs are a subspecies entirely created by human beings.  They've been selectively bred to act according to our preferences.   Dogs simply don't behave in the same ways that wolves or foxes do.

I'm not, by the way, claiming that this guy is wrong.  I'm just saying that "I know what that dog is doing because other beasts do something similar" isn't very convincing.


Dogs are known for burying bones.  It was even in cartoons.  Why do you think they bury it?  You think this stupid animal is capable of performing some symbolic act of mourning?  Elephants, which are clearly far more intelligent, will mourn for other elephants but even they don't express it in abstract means.  You're looking at a cloud and your human mind is telling you that it looks like a smiley face.  It isn't actually a face.
 
2013-06-27 06:17:22 PM

buckets_of_fun: So the morale of the story is dead puppies are delicious?


No. Dead puppies aren't much fun.
 
2013-06-27 06:20:25 PM
There's no immediate intuitive connection between being sad that someone is dead and buying them in the ground. If an animal were capable of grieving, why on earth would it occur to them to bury the dead?
 
2013-06-27 06:21:12 PM

burning_bridge: kg2095: Ral: Well duh.  Dogs don't bury their dead.  That's ridiculous.

Do they eat their dead? I've never heard of dog cannibalism before.

They'll eat anything if they're hungry enough.  Or just because it'll fit in their mouth.

eraser8: One thing that often gets overlooked in these "that dog isn't doing what we think he's doing" stories is the fact that dogs are a subspecies entirely created by human beings.  They've been selectively bred to act according to our preferences.   Dogs simply don't behave in the same ways that wolves or foxes do.

I'm not, by the way, claiming that this guy is wrong.  I'm just saying that "I know what that dog is doing because other beasts do something similar" isn't very convincing.

Dogs are known for burying bones.  It was even in cartoons.  Why do you think they bury it?  You think this stupid animal is capable of performing some symbolic act of mourning?  Elephants, which are clearly far more intelligent, will mourn for other elephants but even they don't express it in abstract means.  You're looking at a cloud and your human mind is telling you that it looks like a smiley face.  It isn't actually a face.


www.tacojohns.com
OMG, It's smiling at me!

/ Stolen from a current TFD thread.
 
2013-06-27 06:21:14 PM

burning_bridge: You think this stupid animal is capable of performing some symbolic act of mourning?


I have absolutely no idea.  But, I'm not willing to disregard the hypothesis before it's actually tested.

burning_bridge: Elephants, which are clearly far more intelligent, will mourn for other elephants but even they don't express it in abstract means.


And, chimpanzees, quite intelligent and our closest genetic relative, are not able to understand human thinking as well as dogs are.
 
2013-06-27 06:31:43 PM
When I was a kid, I saw a dog do the same thing with a dead possum.
 
2013-06-27 06:35:57 PM

Super Chronic: Did anyone really think a dog was engaging in a spontaneous grieving ritual?


Why not? Lots of animals engage in behaviors that are best described as grieving rituals.

Oh... right... because everyone on the internet is totally hardcore and nothing can possibly be nice or sad....
 
2013-06-27 06:36:38 PM

eraser8: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And when your dog snuggles up to you on the couch, it's because he loves you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a heat source.

Studies have shown that dogs receive a "hit" of oxytocin when they come into affectionate contact with their human.  The human, by the way, also receives a hit..similar to the one a human mother gets when she breast feeds her baby.


JesseL: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And when your dog snuggles up to you on the couch, it's because he loves you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a heat source.

It might have something to do with that, but it might also have something to do with the fact that dogs are a subspecies of the grey wolf which is a social animal that uses physical contact to establish and maintain familial bonds.


People humanize their pets all the time, I think, was what he was saying.

Yeah, dogs can love an individual...cuddle for closeness to that person.

But they also can do this with complete strangers, leaving the (humanizing)owner feeling abandoned and neglected.

It's a dog, not a person.  It is a pack animal, and outside normal human boundaries and concepts of love.

Most dogs treat ALL humans the same general way unless they feel threatened(bark at everyone, cuddle with everyone, playful with everyone, beg for attention to anyone that will give it).  Unless a reason comes along for them to treat that person differently.
 
2013-06-27 06:39:15 PM
Ah, personification.  I suspected the dog was saving it for later when I saw the video.  There was a similar video a couple years back of a cat 'massaging' a dead cat.  It was clear to anyone who knew anything about cat behavior that the dead cat had been in heat, but anyone suggesting necrophilia was at play was shouted down in the comments.
 
2013-06-27 06:43:39 PM

Super Chronic: I hadn't seen this until just now, but my response is.... duh.  Did anyone really think a dog was engaging in a spontaneous grieving ritual?

Anyway, curious to know what kind of dog that is.  Looks sorta like a Brittany, though with darker spots.


People get offended at eating horse. So to answer your question. People are idiots when it comes to animals.
 
2013-06-27 06:44:40 PM
I grok that

/obscure?
 
2013-06-27 06:46:13 PM
To cite my experience as a dog owner, I can say for a fact that dogs do experience and express various emotions, often more complex than people would expect.  We have Australian Shepherds, they are very intelligent dogs, and very good at solving problems, and making connections between their actions and their consequences, as well as anticipating our response to them...

When our dog detects that we're leaving for a few hours, she walks around the house with her head held low, sits on her "moping chair" and gives us very sad puppy eyes, then proceeds to place her muzzle in the door so we can't close it without pushing her face back inside.  I honestly believe she genuinely gets upset when we leave.

That said, she doesn't write us letters expressing this problem, nor does she do anything else that a human might think of to try in her situation.  I'm pretty sure she'd be sad if one of our other dogs died, but she's not going to bury them.

Dogs don't express emotions like humans do, nor do they cope with things the way we do.  When she gets really upset about us leaving, she'll make a mess out of something so we have to clean it up first, that's pretty much a dog-solution to a problem, she doesn't try to reason with us.
 
2013-06-27 06:46:23 PM

omeganuepsilon: Yeah, dogs can love an individual...cuddle for closeness to that person.

But they also can do this with complete strangers, leaving the (humanizing)owner feeling abandoned and neglected.

It's a dog, not a person.  It is a pack animal, and outside normal human boundaries and concepts of love.


Did you bother to watch the vid at the link?

We do know that the dog's brain is flooded with oxytocin when it comes into affectionate contact with its human.  What I don't personally know is whether the experimenters had a control group to determine whether the neurochemical release is unique between a dog and a familial human or whether all humans prompt this response.  I would hope that the researchers would have utilized a control group...but, I don't know that they did.

In any case, your position seems to be one from personal incredulity (that is, "I can't conceive of it; therefore, it must be false").  My position is, let's test the hypothesis to determine whether it's credible.
 
2013-06-27 06:47:12 PM
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:


"And when your dog snuggles up to you on the couch, it's because he loves you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a heat source."

Add to that it licks your mouth because it is "kissing" you. Not because you have food particles lingering in your teeth.
 
2013-06-27 06:48:34 PM

buckets_of_fun: So the morale of the story is dead puppies are delicious?


Mama says puppie's days are through
she's gonna put him in the stew
 
2013-06-27 06:49:53 PM

Spam Pajamas: When I was growing up I was at a friend's house who had a huge pit bull. The little old lady next door had a Chihuahua. One day while we were on his porch his dog came up with the Chihuahua in his mouth and it was dead. We panicked. We figured maybe we could just reattach it to its leash and hope the little old lady thought her dog died on its own. A few hours later we hear her screaming! We run over and she's holding her dead dog. She asked who would do such a thing? We said it looks like it died on its own. She said "It died two days ago. Someone dug it up and reattached it to its leash!"


even if this story is B.S. in my mind it is true. excellent.
 
2013-06-27 06:54:02 PM
Free puppy?
 
2013-06-27 06:54:41 PM

omeganuepsilon: People humanize their pets all the time, I think, was what he was saying.

Yeah, dogs can love an individual...cuddle for closeness to that person.

But they also can do this with complete strangers, leaving the (humanizing)owner feeling abandoned and neglected.


That doesn't sound entirely different from human behavior. People should know better than to excessively anthropomorphize dogs, but I think sometimes we give ourselves a bit too much credit too.

/I recall giving an English teacher fits by pointing out the "Man's inhumanity to man" is at first glance a contradictory phrase, suggesting that humanity is something man only aspires to.
 
2013-06-27 07:07:34 PM

JesseL: omeganuepsilon: People humanize their pets all the time, I think, was what he was saying.

Yeah, dogs can love an individual...cuddle for closeness to that person.

But they also can do this with complete strangers, leaving the (humanizing)owner feeling abandoned and neglected.

That doesn't sound entirely different from human behavior. People should know better than to excessively anthropomorphize dogs, but I think sometimes we give ourselves a bit too much credit too.


Sometimes?  heh

eraser8: Did you bother to watch the vid at the link?


No, but I also wasn't' contradicting you, no need to be an ass.

I was simply stating a real phenomenon.  A lot of people do humanize their pets, and animals at large even.  That does not mean dogs do not become attached, I flat out stated they do.  But it's not always the case, trying to put it in human terms as an absolute for all dogs won't work.
 
2013-06-27 07:11:18 PM
Buryin is fine, just don't let them start putting us down behind the barn.
 
2013-06-27 07:14:50 PM

JesseL: I recall giving an English teacher fits by pointing out the "Man's inhumanity to man" is at first glance a contradictory phrase, suggesting that humanity is something man only aspires to.


If that gave your English teacher fits, they weren't an English teacher.
 
2013-06-27 07:20:44 PM

doglover: JesseL: I recall giving an English teacher fits by pointing out the "Man's inhumanity to man" is at first glance a contradictory phrase, suggesting that humanity is something man only aspires to.

If that gave your English teacher fits, they weren't an English teacher.


I won't disagree. She wasn't the dimmest teacher I had in high school though.
 
2013-06-27 07:21:05 PM
Biffer Biffer Helluva Sniffer
 
2013-06-27 07:22:01 PM
It's a dog-eat-dog world out there...
 
2013-06-27 07:29:54 PM

omeganuepsilon: That does not mean dogs do not become attached, I flat out stated they do.  But it's not always the case, trying to put it in human terms as an absolute for all dogs won't work.


And, some human mothers don't become attached to their children; some human children don't become attached to their mothers.  That doesn't change the fact that there is demonstrated biological basis for maternal love.

I wasn't trying to be an ass. I was just pointing out that experiment has shown that dogs receive the same sort of boost of the same neurochemical that human mothers experience when they breastfeed.

I was quite open about the fact that I don't know whether this "high" is limited to humans the dog is previously bonded with or whether it occurs in most human-dog interactions, regardless of familiarity.  The truth is, I simply don't know what the correct answer is. So, when people pretend that they do know the reasons for these behaviors, I'll grant you that I can be a little dickish.  It isn't intentional.
 
2013-06-27 07:30:56 PM

JesseL: doglover: JesseL: I recall giving an English teacher fits by pointing out the "Man's inhumanity to man" is at first glance a contradictory phrase, suggesting that humanity is something man only aspires to.

If that gave your English teacher fits, they weren't an English teacher.

I won't disagree. She wasn't the dimmest teacher I had in high school though.


It's usually a matter of "We have X teachers and Y subjects where X is less than Y. "

Universities can afford to hire lit teachers to teach lit. High schools take the available teachers and whack up the available topics.
 
2013-06-27 07:37:04 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: burning_bridge: kg2095: Ral: Well duh.  Dogs don't bury their dead.  That's ridiculous.

Do they eat their dead? I've never heard of dog cannibalism before.

They'll eat anything if they're hungry enough.  Or just because it'll fit in their mouth.

eraser8: One thing that often gets overlooked in these "that dog isn't doing what we think he's doing" stories is the fact that dogs are a subspecies entirely created by human beings.  They've been selectively bred to act according to our preferences.   Dogs simply don't behave in the same ways that wolves or foxes do.

I'm not, by the way, claiming that this guy is wrong.  I'm just saying that "I know what that dog is doing because other beasts do something similar" isn't very convincing.

Dogs are known for burying bones.  It was even in cartoons.  Why do you think they bury it?  You think this stupid animal is capable of performing some symbolic act of mourning?  Elephants, which are clearly far more intelligent, will mourn for other elephants but even they don't express it in abstract means.  You're looking at a cloud and your human mind is telling you that it looks like a smiley face.  It isn't actually a face.

[www.tacojohns.com image 716x541]
OMG, It's smiling at me!



looks like Jennifer
 
2013-06-27 07:42:23 PM

eraser8: That doesn't change the fact that there is demonstrated biological basis for maternal love.


It's that phrasing.  "That doesn't change"

I never tried to change anything.

I'm on the ground between "He loves me" and "He doesn't love you"

Me might, he might not, either is a possibility as each does exist in reality.  I was not attempting to lay down any absolute, but contradict what I saw as an implication of one.

"The weather is hot"
"Today it is, tomorrow may be different."
"That doesn't change that it's hot out!  The thermometer SAYS it's 98 degrees, it right there, are you blind?"

/that's how it rolled out to me

eraser8: I'll grant you that I can be a little dickish.  It isn't intentional.


likewise
 
2013-06-27 07:46:43 PM
gunshowcomic.com
 
2013-06-27 07:47:56 PM

burning_bridge: Elephants, which are clearly far more intelligent, will mourn for other elephants but even they don't express it in abstract means.


Incorrect. Among other things, elephants bury the dead.
 
2013-06-27 07:52:18 PM
Don't anthropomorphize animals. They hate that.
 
2013-06-27 08:02:57 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And when your dog snuggles up to you on the couch, it's because he loves you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a heat source.


I don't believe that my dogs are capable of love in any sense relating to the human emotion, but I strongly doubt that the one who up-ended a cooler full of ice water which he then lay in (he's a Spitz and a moron), with air temperatures in the 40s, snuggles me for warmth. Something to do with pack safety, maybe?
 
2013-06-27 08:08:48 PM
Disney films are not documentaries, reality is brutal. Just ask Timothy Treadwell.
 
2013-06-27 08:14:21 PM

Inigo: [gunshowcomic.com image 700x1149]


Hahaha... That reminds me of a friend's dog who used to bury all her treats in the yard for later. Including her favorite treat: ice cubes.
 
2013-06-27 08:19:51 PM

FarkinNortherner: Something to do with pack safety, maybe?


When one wakes up, they all wake up. Advantageous.
 
2013-06-27 08:21:26 PM

brap: buckets_of_fun: So the morale of the story is dead puppies are delicious?

No, the morale of the story is low.
The morel of the story is an edible mushroom found in early spring.
The moral of the story is, a dog may not know why it buries a pup, but it may a cur to it later.


Best use of a pun I've seen in a while.

*tosses you a snausage*
 
2013-06-27 08:30:06 PM
one more time for Roman Hruska!
 
2013-06-27 08:32:35 PM
Of course it has to be something like that. The idea animals aren't just meat robots god put here for us to exploit, and might have emotions just like us, is ridiculous.

And now here are a bunch of scientists.
 
2013-06-27 08:40:06 PM
I mean, we humans tower godlike over everything. Just watch TV to see how incredible we are.

Animals don't even manufacture and adore products.
 
2013-06-27 08:40:47 PM
When I was a child, my beagle had pups. One died after a fall. I remember watching the dog bury her pup.

I think a mama dog will bury her dead pup to avoid attracting predators to her live pups.
 
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