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(Spiegel)   German patriots prepare to defend their country from totalitarian American regime   (spiegel.de) divider line 32
    More: Ironic, Americans, global powers, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, American imperialism, interior minister, German Chancellor, court system  
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2019 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jun 2013 at 2:35 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-27 11:00:49 AM
Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-27 11:15:17 AM
I wonder if they know what their own government is doing?  This seems much more intrusive than what we have.

I think it's especially funny how the Germans found out that their government was actually tapping their phone calls and not just collecting meta-data.
 
2013-06-27 11:22:02 AM
I thought that the UK, NZ, Aussies and Canada were helping us to intercept foreigner's phone calls. So you see... its not just Americans, its just all the white english-speaking countries. There, that should help them feel better.
 
2013-06-27 11:31:51 AM

Lurking Fear: Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.


This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.
 
2013-06-27 11:33:31 AM

vpb: I wonder if they know what their own government is doing?  This seems much more intrusive than what we have.

I think it's especially funny how the Germans found out that their government was actually tapping their phone calls and not just collecting meta-data.


Just the other day you were saying something about the difference between reliable sources and blog posts.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-27 11:45:06 AM
Marcus Aurelius:
Just the other day you were saying something about the difference between reliable sources and blog posts.

Yes, that's why I also posted this wikepedia article which contains citations.

It's pretty interesting.  It covers surveillance programs world wide and it's interesting to compare how different countries do things.
 
2013-06-27 11:55:28 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Lurking Fear: Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.

This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.


And it doesn't refute a thing I said. How about them apples?
 
2013-06-27 12:57:07 PM

Lurking Fear: Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.


Sh*t, they practically invented wiretapping and snooping on their own people.
 
2013-06-27 01:47:33 PM
You know who else?
 
2013-06-27 02:47:00 PM
So they have a grassroots antiObama outfit in Germany with secret donors like the Tee-Party. Imagine that.
 
2013-06-27 02:48:41 PM
I'm about to travel to Germany. We're cool right?
 
2013-06-27 02:53:34 PM
Ve Germans are not all smiles und sunshine

images.tvrage.com
 
2013-06-27 03:00:20 PM
Vas it ovah vhen zee Amerikaners bombed zee Port of Hamburg?! Nein!
 
2013-06-27 03:07:23 PM

Lurking Fear: Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.


Germany is very senstive to government intrusion on privacy because half of the poltical class grew up in East germany in the days of Stasi- including Merkle herself.  So on paper they have very robust protections against this sort of thing.  However they aren't screaming too loudly about what the Americans did t becuase the German authorities have  been secretly using the US-gathered data for their own purposes.
 
2013-06-27 03:13:16 PM
If only we had an army on their doorstep to put a stop to this foolishness.

Oh wait.  Our army is already camped in their living room and has been for nearly 70 years.
 
2013-06-27 03:15:46 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Lurking Fear: Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.

This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.


You do realize, that a few weeks before that whole Rupert Murdoch's "secret" phone tapping/hacking group got "outed", there were straight news stories about celebrities getting legal injunctions to make sure that any news obtained from their tapped phones wasn't published.

Lack of Euro privacy has been true since Constantine converted the Roman Empire to Christianity.  Lack of US privacy has only gotten bad since 9/11 (the citizens won the crypto/clipper round against Clinton).
 
2013-06-27 03:23:36 PM

Marcus Aurelius: you were saying something about the difference between reliable sources and blog posts.


vpb: Yes, that's why I also posted this wikepedia article


media.tumblr.com

/ I keed, Wikipedia's open nature weeds out a lot of derp
 
2013-06-27 03:41:57 PM

kbronsito: I thought that the UK, NZ, Aussies and Canada were helping us to intercept foreigner's phone calls. So you see... its not just Americans, its just all the white english-speaking countries. There, that should help them feel better.


If you can call it English
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-06-27 03:43:42 PM

Magorn: Lurking Fear: Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.

Germany is very senstive to government intrusion on privacy because half of the poltical class grew up in East germany in the days of Stasi- including Merkle herself.  So on paper they have very robust protections against this sort of thing.  However they aren't screaming too loudly about what the Americans did t becuase the German authorities have  been secretly using the US-gathered data for their own purposes.


But they don't.  They do the same thing.  The whole EU does.
 
2013-06-27 03:44:39 PM

Marcus Aurelius: This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.


Unless you're non-white, Semitic, or Asian. Then you have zero rights.
 
2013-06-27 03:58:33 PM

Lurking Fear: Marcus Aurelius: Lurking Fear: Like their government isn't doing the exact same thing. Right.

This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.

And it doesn't refute a thing I said. How about them apples?


Apples trail 7-6 in the bottom of the seventh with men on first and third and one out.  I like their chances.  If they sweep this series they set themselves up nicely for a second half run at the pennant.
 
2013-06-27 05:32:35 PM

WTF Indeed: Marcus Aurelius: This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.

Unless you're non-white, Semitic, or Asian. Then you have zero rights.


Trust me, there are many Europeans that are deeply fascinated by African-American and Jamaican culture, and they're very friendly to the non-white military personnel in Germany (where I've visited a bunch of times) and in Ireland (where I lived for four years).  It always amuses me when I read on fark about how horrible it is for blah people in Europe.
 
2013-06-27 06:34:10 PM

vpb: I wonder if they know what their own government is doing? This seems much more intrusive than what we have.


So to what extent do we think their government might be intruding on the communications of US citizens? I mean, if we're spying on them and expect them to be cool with it, can't really complain if they do it back can we?
 
2013-06-27 06:59:48 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: If only we had an army on their doorstep to put a stop to this foolishness.

Oh wait.  Our army is already camped in their living room and has been for nearly 70 years.


And doing teh rapety rape since 1945.
 
2013-06-27 08:27:30 PM
Yeah, yeah. While they're worrying about America, the New Soviet Republic is listening with ears agape, I'm sure.
 
2013-06-27 10:47:42 PM
A monitored human being is not a free human being.

Hear hear.
 
2013-06-27 11:44:13 PM
The one thing President Obama MIGHT have to explain one day is how his administration changed things from W's charge in light of how hard he campaigned against what "W" was doing.  But that being said, this really isn't what is important in this discussion.

I would love to see someone do a generic breakdown of pre-2001 vs. post-Sept 11th 2001 activities as it relates to our everyday liberties.  Sure, we can see certain aspects-TSA at airports, but how have things really changed?

It is not enough that European countries are doing similar activities as us in the field of intelligence gathering, Europeans expect their countries to do this, but the ideal that is America is supposed to be different.  Doing the same as "the others" not only makes us bad, it is like telling a 5 year old that Santa Claus is sleeping with their mother...
 
2013-06-28 12:48:19 AM
Those who thought that we are on the good side and that it is others who are stomping all over human rights are now opening their eyes. A regime is ruling in the United States today that acts in totalitarian ways when it comes to its claim to total control. Soft totalitarianism is still totalitarianism.

I was shocked, my eyes were opened, and I keep hearing "Everyone knew that already, go back to sleep."
 
2013-06-28 02:35:21 AM

HighOnCraic: WTF Indeed: Marcus Aurelius: This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.

Unless you're non-white, Semitic, or Asian. Then you have zero rights.

Trust me, there are many Europeans that are deeply fascinated by African-American and Jamaican culture, and they're very friendly to the non-white military personnel in Germany (where I've visited a bunch of times) and in Ireland (where I lived for four years).  It always amuses me when I read on fark about how horrible it is for blah people in Europe.


Big difference between being a visitor on a base and actually living there. A lot of European minorities would have gone to the US if they'd been able.
 
2013-06-28 02:52:26 AM

sendtodave: Those who thought that we are on the good side and that it is others who are stomping all over human rights are now opening their eyes. A regime is ruling in the United States today that acts in totalitarian ways when it comes to its claim to total control. Soft totalitarianism is still totalitarianism.

I was shocked, my eyes were opened, and I keep hearing "Everyone knew that already, go back to sleep."


You keep hearing "everyone knew that already." You keep imaging the other part.

What you're hearing instead is "OMG KIM KARDASHIAN NAMED HER BABY NORTH ISN'T THAT FUNNY AND WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH LINDSAY LOHAN AND DID ANYONE FIND SNOWDEN YET AND HOWCOME BENGHAZI ISN'T A SCANDAL AND ETC ETC ETC" and you just WANT to go back to sleep.

Nobody wants to go back to sleep, but you try keeping the outrage focused when TMZ is full of loud noise about ten thousand other less important things and people JUST DON'T CARE. Really. They just don't.
 
2013-06-28 03:05:36 AM

Gyrfalcon: sendtodave: Those who thought that we are on the good side and that it is others who are stomping all over human rights are now opening their eyes. A regime is ruling in the United States today that acts in totalitarian ways when it comes to its claim to total control. Soft totalitarianism is still totalitarianism.

I was shocked, my eyes were opened, and I keep hearing "Everyone knew that already, go back to sleep."

You keep hearing "everyone knew that already." You keep imaging the other part.

What you're hearing instead is "OMG KIM KARDASHIAN NAMED HER BABY NORTH ISN'T THAT FUNNY AND WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH LINDSAY LOHAN AND DID ANYONE FIND SNOWDEN YET AND HOWCOME BENGHAZI ISN'T A SCANDAL AND ETC ETC ETC" and you just WANT to go back to sleep.

Nobody wants to go back to sleep, but you try keeping the outrage focused when TMZ is full of loud noise about ten thousand other less important things and people JUST DON'T CARE. Really. They just don't.


Perhaps imagined, but also reinforced by "lighten up Francis" farkers.

"So the government is spying on us?  So what, at least it's not a Republican government, and Snowden is a self aggrandizing douche that looks queer, so, there's that!  So, who cares about this whole thing?  It means nothing!  Sleeeeeeeep."
 
2013-06-28 12:59:03 PM

optional: HighOnCraic: WTF Indeed: Marcus Aurelius: This is Europe.  They have rights over there.

Shocking, I know, but it's true.

Unless you're non-white, Semitic, or Asian. Then you have zero rights.

Trust me, there are many Europeans that are deeply fascinated by African-American and Jamaican culture, and they're very friendly to the non-white military personnel in Germany (where I've visited a bunch of times) and in Ireland (where I lived for four years).  It always amuses me when I read on fark about how horrible it is for blah people in Europe.

Big difference between being a visitor on a base and actually living there. A lot of European minorities would have gone to the US if they'd been able.


Speaking as someone who lived over there for four years, I would go back to Dublin in a New York Minute if I had the chance, and I knew people who'd started off living on bases in Germany, married locals, and stayed there.  What has your experience been as a minority in Europe?
 
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