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(BBC)   Japanese man sues nation's largest broadcaster because of encroaching English loan words. Sounds like someone's in deep toraburu   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 85
    More: Strange, English Words, NHK, English, Japanese, Japan, mental distress  
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3444 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jun 2013 at 12:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-06-27 01:38:16 PM  

Fast Moon: they usually hack them to pieces, too. Most commonly this is done by

...

McDonald's = Macdo Naldo
 
2013-06-27 01:45:19 PM  
Ágenspræc áwendednes gestungen.
 
2013-06-27 01:50:23 PM  

lostcat: the whole L/R thing, which is a real issue. Often you can be reading the (katakana) version of an English word and just not recognize it bacause you are reading the symbols as Rs and they are actually representing an English L sound.


That's because you're confusing the Japanese らりるれろ consonant sound for the "R" sound.  It's neither "L" nor "R", but something different onto itself, even though it kind of resembles one or the other to English ears.
 
2013-06-27 01:52:22 PM  

Precision Boobery: Fast Moon: they usually hack them to pieces, too. Most commonly this is done by...

McDonald's = Macdo Naldo


Take the 'elebeta' to the second floor to find the 'bankio'.
 
2013-06-27 02:13:47 PM  
I like how English uses a bunch of random words from a bunch of random languages and nobody (even the "Freedom Fries" crowd) gives a fark or even really notices.
 
2013-06-27 02:19:39 PM  

Doc Daneeka: A disgruntled viewer is suing Japan's national broadcaster for "mental distress" caused by an excessive use of words borrowed from English.

Hoji Takahashi, 71, is seeking 1.4 million yen ($14,300; £9,300) in damages from NHK.

He may reject English loanwords, but he has clearly assimilated the greatest Americanism of them all - frivolous lawsuits.


Yeah, and that's what what really surprises me.  In Japan, they laugh about our ridiculous lawsuits.  In fact, my Japanese coworker told me this story:

Her uncle was a smoker, and one time, when smoking one of his favorite brands, the cigarette tasted really nasty.  He put it out and opened it to find a dead bug inside.  So he called the cigarette company to ask them if smoking a bug was dangerous to his health.  They replied, "Well, sir, smoking is already bad for your heath."

Did he sue and get millions of dollars?  Nope.  He got a free carton and a very sincere apology letter.  That's it.

On another note, I'm assuming the reason for this lawsuit stems from the fact that Japanese youth prefer to use loan words even if there's a Japanese equivalent.  He probably can't understand his grandchildren, and he thinks TV is responsible.

I can understand this guy's frustration.  When you feel your language is threatened by outside influences, it can feel like your entire culture is being violated.  The ironic part is that Japan ranks as one of the lowest of all Asian countries in terms of spoken English proficiency.  They can't speak English, but they can borrow its words.

/esl teacher
//lived in Japan for about 6 years
 
2013-06-27 02:25:08 PM  

Geotpf: I like how English uses a bunch of random words from a bunch of random languages and nobody (even the "Freedom Fries" crowd) gives a fark or even really notices.


I recall some idiots getting all bent out of shape last year or the year before when meteorologists used the word "haboob" to refer to dust storms in the American Southwest. One person even went so far as to claim that using an Arabic word would traumatize Iraq and Afghanistan vets.
 
2013-06-27 02:28:37 PM  

Geotpf: I like how English uses a bunch of random words from a bunch of random languages and nobody (even the "Freedom Fries" crowd) gives a fark or even really notices.


I from Proto-Germanic*ekan
Like from Proto-Germanic*likjan
How from West Germanic*hwo-
English from Old English Englisc
Uses from  Old Latin oeti,via  Old Frenchuser
A from Old English an
Bunch (probably)  from Flemish boudje
Of from Proto-Germanic*af
Random from Frankish *rant, from Proto-Germanic*randa
Words from Proto-Germanic *wurdan

etc.

All languages evolve.  There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.
 
2013-06-27 02:40:17 PM  

FloydA: Geotpf: I like how English uses a bunch of random words from a bunch of random languages and nobody (even the "Freedom Fries" crowd) gives a fark or even really notices.

I from Proto-Germanic*ekan
Like from Proto-Germanic*likjan
How from West Germanic*hwo-
English from Old English Englisc
Uses from  Old Latin oeti,via  Old Frenchuser
A from Old English an
Bunch (probably)  from Flemish boudje
Of from Proto-Germanic*af
Random from Frankish *rant, from Proto-Germanic*randa
Words from Proto-Germanic *wurdan

etc.

All languages evolve.  There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.


IKR?  totes cray-cray, bo.
 
2013-06-27 03:36:53 PM  

brantgoose: He sounds French.

Personally, I am annoyed by the anglicized or americanized pronounciation of several foreign ...


Let's get this rodeo started.
 
2013-06-27 04:00:29 PM  

BafflerMeal: FloydA: Geotpf: I like how English uses a bunch of random words from a bunch of random languages and nobody (even the "Freedom Fries" crowd) gives a fark or even really notices.

I from Proto-Germanic*ekan
Like from Proto-Germanic*likjan
How from West Germanic*hwo-
English from Old English Englisc
Uses from  Old Latin oeti,via  Old Frenchuser
A from Old English an
Bunch (probably)  from Flemish boudje
Of from Proto-Germanic*af
Random from Frankish *rant, from Proto-Germanic*randa
Words from Proto-Germanic *wurdan

etc.

All languages evolve.  There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

IKR?  totes cray-cray, bo.


Werd dawg.  Spect!
 
2013-06-27 04:01:31 PM  
All languages evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

What about Latin?
 
2013-06-27 04:05:30 PM  

HailRobonia: All languages evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

What about Latin?


Qu'est-ce que c'est?
¿Qué es eso?
O que é isso?
Ce este asta?
 
2013-06-27 04:07:03 PM  
GRAMARU NAZIKE!
 
2013-06-27 04:10:54 PM  

Agnes Gonxha's Confidant: I detest the use of loan words when there are perfectly good, explicit equivalents.


So you're filled with schadenfreude? Or is it ennui?
 
2013-06-27 04:24:39 PM  

Nall-ohki: lostcat: the whole L/R thing, which is a real issue. Often you can be reading the (katakana) version of an English word and just not recognize it bacause you are reading the symbols as Rs and they are actually representing an English L sound.

That's because you're confusing the Japanese らりるれろ consonant sound for the "R" sound.  It's neither "L" nor "R", but something different onto itself, even though it kind of resembles one or the other to English ears.


Nope. See I'm specifically talking about Katakana renderings of English words. You're referring to (and showing) Hiragana.

If you are trying to identify an English loanword written in Katakana, you first have to figure out whether the kana represents the English R or L sound.
 
2013-06-27 04:28:59 PM  

HailRobonia: All languages evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

What about Latin?


Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, and Romanian (among several others) are descendants of Latin, so yes.
 
2013-06-27 04:29:39 PM  

Nall-ohki: lostcat: the whole L/R thing, which is a real issue. Often you can be reading the (katakana) version of an English word and just not recognize it bacause you are reading the symbols as Rs and they are actually representing an English L sound.

That's because you're confusing the Japanese らりるれろ consonant sound for the "R" sound.  It's neither "L" nor "R", but something different onto itself, even though it kind of resembles one or the other to English ears.


I just realized that you are also in Berkeley. I kind of imagine I know who you are.
 
mjl
2013-06-27 04:39:03 PM  

AirGee: Half of the English language is borrowed from French,  way more than the handful of words they list.



English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
-- James Nicoll
 
2013-06-27 04:42:25 PM  

FloydA: HailRobonia: All languages evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

What about Latin?

Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, and Romanian (among several others) are descendants of Latin, so yes.


Portuguese is Latin like a chicken is a dinosaur.  But there is also Old Latin versus Classical Latin if you want examples that are both "true" latin.
 
2013-06-27 05:23:26 PM  
furuki yu.
 
2013-06-27 05:35:36 PM  

ciberido: FloydA: HailRobonia: All languages evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

What about Latin?

Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, and Romanian (among several others) are descendants of Latin, so yes.

Portuguese is Latin like a chicken is a dinosaur.  But there is also Old Latin versus Classical Latin if you want examples that are both "true" latin.


A chicken is truly a dinosaur.  Aves is a crown group of the dinosauria.  If T. rex is a dinosaur, and Edmontosaurus is a dinosaur, then logically, anything that is more closely related to T. rex than Edmontosaurus is related to T. rex must also be a dinosaur.    T. rex are more closely related to chickens than they are to Edmontosaurus, so chickens are dinosaurs, Q.E.D.

Portuguese is Latin in a very similar way.

Consider Old Latin analogous to the basal theropod, and Church Latin analogous to Coelophysis.  Then Classical Latin would be analogous to the basal  Tetanuran, and the pair Ornithomymus/Tyranosaurus would be analogous to Italian/Sicilian, while Deinonychus/Aves would be analogous to Spanish/Portuguese, and French would be Acrocanthosaurus.

To say that Aves is not part of Dinosaura is to create a paraphyletic clade.  The precise same logic tells us that Portuguese is Latin, just a highly derived version of it.
 
2013-06-27 07:42:55 PM  

FloydA: ciberido: FloydA: HailRobonia: All languages evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

What about Latin?

Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, and Romanian (among several others) are descendants of Latin, so yes.

Portuguese is Latin like a chicken is a dinosaur.  But there is also Old Latin versus Classical Latin if you want examples that are both "true" latin.

A chicken is truly a dinosaur.

i2.kym-cdn.com

I was humorously (well, it was supposed to be humorous, anyway) referring to thread #7808499, in which we had a similar exchange.
 
2013-06-27 07:51:56 PM  
I feel like a racist when pronouncing those words.
 
2013-06-27 09:54:12 PM  
My wife thinks he just doesn't want to pay the NHK fee anymore.
 
2013-06-27 10:13:51 PM  
lostcat: Nope. See I'm specifically talking about Katakana renderings of English words. You're referring to (and showing) Hiragana.
If you are trying to identify an English loanword written in Katakana, you first have to figure out whether the kana represents the English R or L sound.


Ah, in that context, yes - the Japanese are attempting to identify R/L and translate it to the native sound.  If you're trying to do a 1:2 mapping from the original 2:1 mapping, then it definitely is difficult. :)

I just realized that you are also in Berkeley. I kind of imagine I know who you are.

Ah!  I haven't updated my profile in ages.  I live in Tokyo now. :)
 
2013-06-27 10:16:33 PM  
ciberido:
I was humorously (well, it was supposed to be humorous, anyway) referring to thread #7808499, in which we had a similar exchange.

This link explains everything I think about you.  If that's not enough, maybe this link will convince you to keep on doin' what you're doin.

i105.photobucket.com
Most 'Spect.

/Out.
 
2013-06-27 10:16:49 PM  

super_grass: Really Japan? Complaining about foreign influence when your cartoons are ALL about white people?



So I've heard, anime was originally influenced heavily by Western animation.

Then you get Western animation influenced by anime.

Then you get South Park lampooning anime, and then FLCL does random bits of one episode South Park style, and it's about this point where I go cross-eyed.

/let's fighting love is my ringtone
/you don't want to know what the lyrics mean.  really.
 
2013-06-27 10:25:00 PM  

gnosis301: The sheer amount of loan words in some anime is indeed downright appalling.


Not really related, but funny

/pereperepereperepere
 
2013-06-27 10:34:25 PM  

HailRobonia: Geotpf: I like how English uses a bunch of random words from a bunch of random languages and nobody (even the "Freedom Fries" crowd) gives a fark or even really notices.

I recall some idiots getting all bent out of shape last year or the year before when meteorologists used the word "haboob" to refer to dust storms in the American Southwest. One person even went so far as to claim that using an Arabic word would traumatize Iraq and Afghanistan vets.


Did they pull their kids out of Algebra class?

/al-jabr.  No, really.
 
2013-06-27 11:07:31 PM  

Mister Peejay: gnosis301: The sheer amount of loan words in some anime is indeed downright appalling.

Not really related, but funny

/pereperepereperepere


You know, the parent comment got me thinking of Indian movies.  They are largely Hindi but they have an awful lot of English in them (for obvious reasons.)  But enough English that most Hindi sentences contain at least one loan word and many of the sentences are entirely English.  It's all subtitled though, which is good.
 
2013-06-28 12:14:40 AM  
i85.photobucket.com
 
2013-06-28 04:35:24 AM  
Mmm I think the main problem here is that loan words are used when there are perfectly serviceable Japanese equivalents, and that loan words are meaningless in themselves.  Putting a loan word up on the screen or speaking it, you might as well walk up to someone and go "mlephptmnop" for all the meaning it has.  NHK is the Japanese version of BBC and should be broadcasting news in language that is clear to everyone.

The benefit of kanji is that even if you have never encountered a word or phrase in your life you will almost always recognise the characters, allowing you to gather the meaning.  If a word was spoken to me, in context, and I had never heard it before, and could not see the characters, I still could usually tell what characters it would probably be made of and guess the meaning.  Occasionally I would have to ask the character, and then I would understand.  No explanation of meaning needed.

Essentially because of kanji Japan has a native inbuilt version of what it would take English speakers classes in Latin, Greek, Old Germanic, Gaelic, Old English, and medieval French to be able to do.
 
2013-06-28 12:21:25 PM  

if_i_really_have_to: Essentially because of kanji Japan has a native inbuilt version of what it would take English speakers classes in Latin, Greek, Old Germanic, Gaelic, Old English, and medieval French to be able to do.


"Native, built in" if you mean "stolen from Chinese in the 7th century."
 
2013-06-28 06:33:08 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: HailRobonia: All languages evolve. There is no such thing as a fixed, unchanging language, and attempts to stop linguistic evolution are futile.

What about Latin?

Qu'est-ce que c'est?
¿Qué es eso?
O que é isso?
Ce este asta?


Evolved versions are called "Italian", "French", "Spanish", and other mutated and cross-breeds, like "Engrish" and "English"
 
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