If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(IT World)   Human sacrifice, designers and developers living together... MASS HYSTERIA   (itworld.com) divider line 17
    More: Interesting, designers, project team, markup  
•       •       •

1109 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Jun 2013 at 10:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



17 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-06-27 08:10:31 AM  
For the most part, it's been like making cats and dogs or oil and water or the coyote and roadrunner work together, closely, on a daily basis

Eh, that hasn't been my experience, really. I've been part of a number of creative teams as a designer. Most of the developers I've worked with have been pretty easy to work with. I think the problem a lot of designers run into is not considering the developer in the conceptualization process particularly in regards to information hierarchies and user experience. I also find developers get less stabby when my comps and files are clearly organized and I've made plenty of notes regarding how I'm envisioning the functionality of the final work. Also getting the files to them with enough time for them to code it up is important. And, of course, it's also important for both designers and developers to be flexible.

Having said that, there are plenty of dick heads in both professions. : )
 
2013-06-27 10:51:26 AM  
Apple has the designers as superiors over coders

Look at how well they are doing

Why is that?

Because Geeks love extreme complexity and  regular user doesn't.

For example, in Linux, coders love dropping to the terminal. They love that shiat because it is fun for them. The normal computer user finds it incredibly scary.
 
2013-06-27 11:13:01 AM  
Then some of us poor buggers have to be both developers and designers, and half a dozen other roles all put into one.
 
2013-06-27 11:20:13 AM  
Reads like the core outline of a consultant's day long seminar. If this sort of thing happens where you work you might want to freshen up your resume.
 
2013-06-27 11:26:26 AM  
God, don't let them do that.  Then they'll both be blaming me (the firewall guy) for everything.
 
2013-06-27 11:30:46 AM  
 designers and developers and testers living together...

Better. All of the above should be involved in design at the very beginning, but led by the designer (who needs to be like some sort of design dictator at meetings - nothing worse than design by committee).

Each of the above will have their own agenda and need to sort it out in the design by having some sort of cage fight and pinky swear that it won't change (ha ha)

In my experience:
Designers: Want everything, want it now, want it with bells on
Developers: Give everything, but in the most optimised form for development, UI is a complicated mess of afterthought, bells are delivered as pianos
Testers: Universally complain about everything, get hung up on spelling mistakes, are generally used to rubber stamp a product because you just have to have them.
 
2013-06-27 11:52:14 AM  

King Keepo: designers and developers and testers living together...

Better. All of the above should be involved in design at the very beginning, but led by the designer (who needs to be like some sort of design dictator at meetings - nothing worse than design by committee).

Each of the above will have their own agenda and need to sort it out in the design by having some sort of cage fight and pinky swear that it won't change (ha ha)

In my experience:
Designers: Want everything, want it now, want it with bells on
Developers: Give everything, but in the most optimised form for development, UI is a complicated mess of afterthought, bells are delivered as pianos
Testers: Universally complain about everything, get hung up on spelling mistakes, are generally used to rubber stamp a product because you just have to have them.


Testers need to be independent. It avoids group think and change blindness.
 
2013-06-27 11:57:10 AM  
They don't need to live together as long as they understand what others have to deal with.

This is a practice that would never fly in the U.S., but a major competitive advantage Japan has is that their companies will FORCE their employees to temporarily transfer to other departments.  You not only train, you do.  You're hired as an engineer?  Too bad; you're in QA now.  You're a marketer?  Too bad; you're going on the factory line.  You're a salesman?  You're now on this upcoming product's design team.  When it's not possible, they'll still have mandatory training sessions where the only topic is about the daily life of some department or other.

The idea isn't to create super-employees that can do everything; rather, by the time they leave they're singing a very different tune about their co-workers and become representatives of other departments within their own.  One becomes much more conscious that one person's output is another person's input (and not in a Human Centipede sort of way), and thus the overall process becomes MUCH more efficient.  Mind you, it works both ways.  Not only are they much more sympathetic of what their extra-departmental colleagues have to deal with, they're also extremely perceptive of when they're being fed bullshiat excuses.  It can kind of backfire when they know your job well enough to know the bitter limits of your productivity ("I know it can be done if you work 90 hours a week"), but at least you don't have Marketers promising the literally impossible to clients.

In my experience, America gets around the same problem by relying on the project manager to get all these ivory towers to work together, but super-communicators that can empathize with a half a dozen highly homogenous teams don't grow on trees -- and are generally unappreciated when they're found anyway.  It's much easier to find a sociopathic bully and assholes deliver very visible results, but the cost of getting the project done on time is that the best employees will get fed up and leave.
 
2013-06-27 12:27:53 PM  
Developers and designers are natural enemies
Like developers and testers
or developers and DBAs
or developers and other developers
 
2013-06-27 12:31:48 PM  
In every company I've worked for, the developers are the designers, except for the occasional government sub-sub-contract that's basically designed by decree from the higher-ups in the chain.
 
2013-06-27 12:34:03 PM  

cman: Apple has the designers as superiors over coders

Look at how well they are doing


Ion Storm was a gaming company founded on the idea that designers should be superior over coders.

They produced Daikatana, which is now the very archetype of a crappy, overhyped flop in the video gaming world.  Later, they folded entirely.

Good products don't come out of any simple axiom about which parts of the process should be superior to others.
 
2013-06-27 12:37:14 PM  

freidog: Developers and designers are natural enemies
Like developers and testers
or developers and DBAs
or developers and other developers


Developing is hard. Those other jobs are a walk in the park.
 
2013-06-27 12:39:29 PM  

THE GREAT NAME: freidog: Developers and designers are natural enemies
Like developers and testers
or developers and DBAs
or developers and other developers

Developing is hard. Those other jobs are a walk in the park.


You are what's wrong with my industry.

/Developer who's also dabbled in all of those other roles
 
2013-06-27 12:45:18 PM  

SpaceButler: THE GREAT NAME: freidog: Developers and designers are natural enemies
Like developers and testers
or developers and DBAs
or developers and other developers

Developing is hard. Those other jobs are a walk in the park.

You are what's wrong with my industry.

/Developer who's also dabbled in all of those other roles


You sound like a failed developer
 
2013-06-27 01:16:35 PM  

THE GREAT NAME: SpaceButler: THE GREAT NAME: freidog: Developers and designers are natural enemies
Like developers and testers
or developers and DBAs
or developers and other developers

Developing is hard. Those other jobs are a walk in the park.

You are what's wrong with my industry.

/Developer who's also dabbled in all of those other roles

You sound like a failed developer


You're adorable.
 
2013-06-27 02:00:40 PM  
The biggest problem with the whole idea is in assuming either group is better than the other.  Sometimes, a design may look great but be completely unrealistic to implement and sometimes the most efficient way to develop something conflicts with the needs of the target audience.  Learning the other side's job is generally a pointless time sink that can better be handled by promoting an environment where both sides listen to the concerns coming from the other side.  Frequent communication does no good if either side isn't listening.  If a developer says the project is putting a square peg in a round hole, you don't need to understand matrix theory or the differences between recursion and iteration.
 
2013-06-27 10:11:45 PM  
Or think smarter,
Learn to be both yourself.

/It's not that hard...
 
Displayed 17 of 17 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report