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(UPI)   U.S. announces it will reduce use of chimps in government-funded research. Republican and Democratic national committees object, say it will limit the number of eligible candidates for regional and national elections   (upi.com) divider line 38
    More: Spiffy, U.S., U.S. National Institutes of Health, chimps, DNC  
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512 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jun 2013 at 10:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-06-27 06:05:10 AM
short but respectful round of applause
 
2013-06-27 09:51:39 AM
Obligatory:

0.tqn.com
 
2013-06-27 10:23:04 AM
HOTY candidate right here, folks.
 
2013-06-27 10:50:14 AM
Matthew Broderick is the one to thank.
 
2013-06-27 10:54:33 AM
To be fair, some of them came back super-intelligent.

i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-06-27 10:55:08 AM

DjangoStonereaver: HOTY candidate right here, folks.


My racist headline was better....
 
2013-06-27 10:55:34 AM
I like what Alice Cooper had to say about animal testing

" Im against animal testing for like makeup and hair spray and stuff, its not like we really need a new formula of it so they should use paid volunteers for that. Now when it comes to actual like medications and curing diseases if hooking a monkeys brain up to a car battery is gonna cure AIDS or cancer all I have to say is red is positive and black is negative"
 
2013-06-27 10:57:21 AM

bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]


Have some damned respect. You may not like him, but he certainly doesn't deserve that comparison.

After all, a chimp President wouldn't have gotten us into Iraq.
 
2013-06-27 10:57:23 AM
Well maybe we'll get some candidates with some brains and common sense now.
 
2013-06-27 10:59:20 AM
Chimps are generally overqualified anyway.
 
2013-06-27 10:59:27 AM
Good.  Animal research is necessary but I don't think chimp research is ethical.  I don't know exactly how I'd define sentience but if three-year-old humans are sentient than so are chimps.
 
2013-06-27 11:06:35 AM

bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]


www.animevortex.netLook at that, all the same pics were used.  Like brothas from anotha mutha.
 
2013-06-27 11:11:32 AM

walkerhound: bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used.  Like brothas from anotha mutha.


It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.
 
2013-06-27 11:17:39 AM

Chameleon: Good.  Animal research is necessary but I don't think chimp research is ethical.  I don't know exactly how I'd define sentience but if three-year-old humans are sentient than so are chimps.


Use prisoners instead.

//I kid.  Down that road lies Mengele and other horrors too disturbing to ponder for long.
 
2013-06-27 11:20:07 AM
awkwardpress.com
Will have to run away and find a new friend now.
 
2013-06-27 11:24:02 AM
I understand the whole thing about Chimps being almost genetically identical to humans, therefore it is reasonable to perform research on them.
But at this point, what else can we possibly learn?  It's like, "let's smear hydrochloric acid on this Chimps eyes and make a graph of what happens."  What the bloody hell do you think is going to happen?!

I propose that we replace that entire program with prisoners on death row.  Their dead anyway.  And if anyone is more genetically close to humans, it's humans.  (d'uh).
 
2013-06-27 11:24:49 AM
Good.  Use Tea Party members instead, since they clearly feel nothing.
 
2013-06-27 11:30:03 AM

super_grass: walkerhound: bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used.  Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.


So its wrong to say a black guy looks like a monkey because black people look like monkeys?
 
2013-06-27 11:30:20 AM

bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]


You know, If I did that with The Won you would cry racism! And the Mods would find my ranch and burn me out. Instead, I'll go with ..

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-06-27 11:30:53 AM

Chameleon: Good.  Animal research is necessary but I don't think chimp research is ethical.  I don't know exactly how I'd define sentience but if three-year-old humans are sentient than so are chimps.


How is research more or less ethical based on sentience?

/believes that animal research is necessary, but only if it's the only viable option
 
2013-06-27 11:40:13 AM

durbnpoisn: But at this point, what else can we possibly learn? It's like, "let's smear hydrochloric acid on this Chimps eyes and make a graph of what happens." What the bloody hell do you think is going to happen?!


I think SIV is similar to HIV but giving humans HIV is a really bad idea.
 
2013-06-27 11:45:03 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: How is research more or less ethical based on sentience?


Is that an actual question?
 
2013-06-27 11:46:01 AM

super_grass: walkerhound: bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used.  Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.



What you did there, I see it.
 
2013-06-27 11:54:09 AM

Oldiron_79: I like what Alice Cooper had to say about animal testing

" Im against animal testing for like makeup and hair spray and stuff, its not like we really need a new formula of it so they should use paid volunteers for that. Now when it comes to actual like medications and curing diseases if hooking a monkeys brain up to a car battery is gonna cure AIDS or cancer all I have to say is red is positive and black is negative"


I like Henrik Ibsen's quote better:

"It is inexcusable for scientists to torture animals; let them make their experiments on journalists and politicians."
 
2013-06-27 11:54:44 AM

Ned Stark: super_grass: walkerhound: bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used.  Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.

So its wrong to say a black guy looks like a monkey because black people look like monkeys?


No it's wrong to say that because our country has a history of using those images to depict people as subhuman as part of a systematic process to politically subdue and racially discriminate. If you don't understand the distinction, read some books about it. It's not a concept out of vogue either, as only a few years ago certain ethnic groups in Rwanda were compared to cockroaches in an effort to desensitize people into allowing the government to commit genocide.

The comparison of Bush to a chimp is basically because he is the intellectual equivalent of one - and that may be unfair to chimps.
 
2013-06-27 12:03:04 PM

bdub77: Ned Stark: super_grass: walkerhound: bdub77: Obligatory:

[0.tqn.com image 800x571]

[www.animevortex.net image 801x572]Look at that, all the same pics were used.  Like brothas from anotha mutha.

It's offensive when you compare black people to chimps. It was used as rationale fire some horrific acts of racism, not to mention black people share a closer skin tone and facial features with primates than white folk.

So its wrong to say a black guy looks like a monkey because black people look like monkeys?

No it's wrong to say that because our country has a history of using those images to depict people as subhuman as part of a systematic process to politically subdue and racially discriminate. If you don't understand the distinction, read some books about it. It's not a concept out of vogue either, as only a few years ago certain ethnic groups in Rwanda were compared to cockroaches in an effort to desensitize people into allowing the government to commit genocide.

The comparison of Bush to a chimp is basically because he is the intellectual equivalent of one - and that may be unfair to chimps.


No disagreement here, just twisting super grass's nose cause he said something dumb.
 
2013-06-27 12:03:36 PM
I actually listened to an article on NPR about this:

It's more than just "Let's be humane!" about things. One of the problems is that, inreasingly, *chimps just aren't that useful* in research.

Even the small amount of genetic difference is enough to completely alter some outcomes: we've apparently cured HIV *in chimps*, and come up with vaccines that work *in chimps* dozens of times-but the differences in our immune systems are enough that it doesn't work in human trials.

We're also getting better at creating genetically modded mice that have human immune systems (or very close facilities), etc. If I remember correctly, that is.
 
2013-06-27 12:04:17 PM

durbnpoisn: I understand the whole thing about Chimps being almost genetically identical to humans, therefore it is reasonable to perform research on them.
But at this point, what else can we possibly learn?  It's like, "let's smear hydrochloric acid on this Chimps eyes and make a graph of what happens."  What the bloody hell do you think is going to happen?!

I propose that we replace that entire program with prisoners on death row.  Their dead anyway.  And if anyone is more genetically close to humans, it's humans.  (d'uh).


There's still plenty of diseases we don't understand and new drugs we need to test. Typically we try to simulate a disorder, then see if the drug helps or hurts. The higher up the evolutionary ladder the better chances it'll work on people. We've cured things on rats millions of times over, then it gets tried on dogs and it fails to work.  Oh, and we also test on humans all the time. That's the last stage.
 
2013-06-27 12:07:58 PM
Yea, but what about that fine print? Does that include other species of primate? Because these guys also use various species of monkeys to conduct research.

I hate to be the one to be a downer, but as much as animal research is apparently needed. They do use other kinds of monkies in their research. Removing chimps is like a drop in the bucket.

And that still won't prevent researchers whom utilize local university research labs from co opting a few of their chimps and or primates for experiments. It is not exactly unknown for a government researcher to also hold positions with other private labs and university labs while working for the federal government.

Still reduced reliance in some labs on primates is a good thing. Even though in the long run there are quite a few loopholes in the whole announcement.
 
2013-06-27 12:13:44 PM
www.theblindcard.com

(Not sure if they're serious.)
 
2013-06-27 12:27:35 PM
This has nothing to do with the well being of the chimps... it's simply cheaper to pay asphalt chimps to test on than it is to buy, train, feed and house a real chimp.
 
2013-06-27 12:30:54 PM

ElPresidente: Good.  Use Tea Party members instead, since they clearly feel nothing.


Except that the clincal trials wouldn't be valid because their metabolisms are not sufficiently correlated with
human norms, especially in the neurological realm.
 
2013-06-27 12:36:47 PM

walkerhound: What you did there, I see it.


I couldn't figure out, "What I saw there. Did he do it?" or did he accidentally the funny.
 
2013-06-27 12:48:32 PM

boarch: asphalt chimps


That's a new one to me. Congrats and go fark yourself.
 
2013-06-27 01:25:24 PM
Thanks subby, I chuckled.
 
2013-06-27 01:35:41 PM

thurstonxhowell: boarch: asphalt chimps

That's a new one to me. Congrats and go fark yourself.


You prefer cement monkies? concrete gorillas? cobblestone apes?!
 
2013-06-27 03:13:08 PM
Chameleon:

Good. Animal research is necessary but I don't think chimp research is ethical. I don't know exactly how I'd define sentience but if three-year-old humans are sentient than so are chimps.

It's tricky. I grew up on a farm and slaughtered and ate animals that I helped birth and raise, and yet they're very tasty. They were all sentient, but none of them had much claim to sapience though.

At the same time, I have also voluntarily been poked, prodded and studied the fark out of by the NIH. I live near the Bethesda campus, and whenever work is slow I (paid) volunteer for studies. So I've been fMRIed, they have probably a gallon or so of my blood, my entire genome, they've drugged me, they've tested me, and they even have a few samples of spinal fluid from me.

I do this as a consenting primate, and I do so after signing a zillion carefully detailed consent forms. Apes.... Well, they tend to be treated well and live a better life than they would in the wild, and there are more controls on abusing them than there are on the homeless or the imprisoned, but they can't give consent or enter a contract despite what GOP congressmen freaking out about gay marriage might say about turtles.

Mostly I think it boils down to "Is Jerry a Man?"
 
2013-06-27 03:19:23 PM
Also, if you don't like primate medical research, there is something you can do that is orders of magnitude more effective than any greenpeace protest or whatnot.

Go here and provide better data than we could get from chimps:

ClinicalTrials.gov is a registry and results database of publicly and privately supported clinical studies of human participants conducted around the world. Learn more About Clinical Studies and About This Site, including relevant History, Policies, and Laws.
 
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